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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump's Trade War Escalation Is Most Significant In Century; Treasury Chief To Nations: Don't Retaliate, Sit Back, Take It; Four GOP Senators Defy Trump, Vote Against His Tariffs; "NewsNight" Tackles Present U.S. Economic Status; FAA Takes Action After At Reagan National Airport Air Traffic Control Tower. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired April 02, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, buckle up. Donald Trump is taking America for a ride.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: This is one of the most important days in American history.
PHILLIP: Will the president's long anticipated trade wars pay off for Americans?
Also on the price tag politics, Democrats plots to fight some of his own if they dare to defy him.
Plus the X-Man's last ride?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is political poison.
PHILLIP: After an expensive defeat, is MAGA's chainsaw massacre coming to the end of the road.
And alarming revelations about Joe Biden's state of mind as a loyalist insists 46th was 86th on stamina.
Live at the table, Ashley Allison, Arthur Aidala, Ana Navarro, Shermichael Singleton and economic voices.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York. Let's get right to what America's talking about, brace, president of the United States following through on his threat to expand trade wars despite the warnings from the markets, his allies, and many Americans who voted for him. It's complicated, but here is the short and long of what we know tonight. Donald Trump declared a national emergency to justify slapping at least 10 percent of tariffs on most countries in the world with rates going higher for dozens of nations that he called the worst offenders.
Now, we're going to discuss it how he arrived at those numbers in a moment. But on top of that, he announced a 25 percent tariff on all foreign-made cars. Now, Trump argues that countries have taken advantage of the United States for decades, and this move will inspire more people to buy American, except economists say that this essentially amounts to a sales tax on what you buy.
So, how will this impact you? Well, you can expect a sticker shock on everything, from groceries to cars and homes. That's going to happen immediately. And he has to get the potential -- it has the potential to get worse over time as other countries retaliate, as many have promised to do. That includes Canada, which says Trump has just fundamentally changed the global trading system.
Now, stock futures already falling tonight on his reaction, as economists and historians say his historical justification for all of this is flawed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Then in 1913, for reasons unknown to mankind, they established the income tax so that citizens rather than foreign countries would start paying the money necessary to run our government. Then in 1929, it all came to a very abrupt end with the Great Depression, and it would've never happened if they had stayed with the tariff policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: And for a moment of levity in all of this chaos and anxiety, that comment hearkens back to a famous moment in pop culture.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 1930, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives in an effort to alleviate the effects of the -- anyone -- the Great Depression passed the -- anyone -- a tariff bill, the Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act, which -- anyone -- raised or lowered -- raised tariffs in an effort to collect more revenue for the federal government. Did it work? Anyone? Anyone know the effects? It did not work, and the United States sank deeper into the Great Depression.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Joining us at the table is CNN Business Editor-at-Large Richard Quest. Also with us, CNN Global Economic Analyst Rana Foroohar.
Richard Quest, I'll give it to you first. I mean, there are a lot of things that were said today, but the idea of slapping willy-nilly, it seems, tariffs on basically the entire world will do what for the economy?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: It will send it into reverse. Let there be no doubt about this, the president said today a whole load of economic nonsense, things that we know simply will not happen.
[22:05:03]
He talks about it being great for the economy and it's going to boost growth. It will not.
Look, I've studied this in million which ways upside down, and many of the people in that Rose Garden know it. The president conveniently forgot about the Payne-Aldrich Act of 1910. He ignored the former Cucumber Act of 19 -- he went straight through Smoot-Hawley.
PHILLIP: This is a mic drop moment.
QUEST: And then he gets to this nirvana where billions of dollars are going to come in. Where does he think these billions are coming from? They're coming from importers. Importers will pay because they get something known as a custom schedule when the goods come off the boat, and that is an invoice, and the importer pays. And the importer passes it to the wholesaler. The wholesaler passes it to the distributor. The distributor, get your wallets out, passes it to you.
PHILLIP: All right. So, very important, okay, folks at home, class is in session. Remember what he just said there, because here is what Scott Bessent, the treasury secretary, just told Kaitlan Collins in the last hour. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: Everybody sit back, take a deep breath, don't immediately retaliate. Let's see where this goes, because if you retaliate, that's how we get escalation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, out of the goodness of their hearts, they are supposed to not retaliate, calm down, don't panic, because maybe this might go away if Trump just wakes up one morning and decides to change it back.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think the president is right in his critique that free trade has ravaged towns and cities across this country. I even saw you acknowledge earlier, Richard, I think, with Erin Burnett that some countries have indeed taken advantage of the United States. And we can debate the merits of the appropriate approach to address that.
I mean, there are towns across this country now that were once thriving, they're now consumed by drugs, crime, the stench of hopelessness, places that were really vibrant. There was one middle class of a lot of Americans from the Rust Belt to even some communities of color that really saw themselves move up the economic ladder in part because of manufacturing.
Now, the question becomes to the point that you just raised, Richard, what about the consumer? I would personally like to explore perhaps some type of a tax credit or deduction to companies to not pass this on to the consumer, maybe some type of a rebate similar to what we have for electric vehicles so that car manufacturers have a way not to pass it on to consumers.
So, I think that there are some comprehensive ways that the administration -- let me finish. There are comprehensive ways that the administration can do this, I would argue, to some great effect for the American people.
PHILLIP: I hear what you're saying. But, I mean, I remember my college economics class, and my understanding is that a conservative economic principle was that you get the government out of redistributing wealth from companies to consumers.
SINGLETON: So, we could just let --
PHILLIP: So -- hold on. So, your idea is basically you slap a tariff, raise prices, and then you give a discount from the government to companies to not raise those taxes when what you could do is --
RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMY ANALYST: But here's the thing, Abby, and, you know, I think both you all have a point, for the last 20 years, there's been a major black swan in this situation. That's China. China comes into the global trading system. It's a very different kind of economy. They subsidize everything. The government runs everything. And so you get something called the China shock, where, literally, a ton of jobs from the Rust Belt, as you're talking about, I grew up in rural Indiana, that was my whole growing up experience, they leave counties, communities are hollowed out.
More importantly, and this is what, where it gets really interesting critical goods that we need in this country, you can't produce any more in the system as it was originally envisioned in the post-war era because the global economy has changed. And you have all these players that are playing by different rules now.
And one thing I will say, and this is not to say that Donald Trump is doing this strategy of, you know, kicking the Bretton Woods system, you know, out and changing globalization. I don't think he's doing it right. But he is making an important point, which is that it's outdated and it needs to change. And that is a stepping off point for a conversation. I would like to see Democrats actually engaging with more proactively myself.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Let me say a couple of things. First, I don't think it's a coincidence that he's scheduled liberation day, which I call hypertension day, because it's going to give us all a heart attack. But I don't think it's a coincidence that he scheduled it the day after the Wisconsin race, knowing --
PHILLIP: You're going to say the day after April Fool's Day.
NAVARRO: Fair enough, yes, knowing that he could have -- well, we don't have April Fool's Day anymore, honey. The entire year has been nothing but a joke, a bad one. But I don't think it's a coincidence it was scheduled after that election so that this is the thing we're talking about, right?
[22:10:00] Donald Trump is such an expert at distracting us.
Also, as I watched that ceremony today, and then I saw so many Republicans who I know have been free traders and anti-tariff people their entire careers, starting with my former senator, Marco Rubio, who I have known since we were like teenagers, this man has spent his entire life arguing against tariffs, and now he's out there waving the flag. And so it's almost like you're watching, you know, the Emperor Has No Clothes On play live on your T.V., and it's the problem of there being no guard rails.
SINGLETON: Could it be possible that some of those Republicans of the past were partially incorrect as it pertains to --
NAVARRO: No. It's possible that they lost their cojones and that they're doing nothing but kowtowing to Donald Trump.
SINGLETON: So, Ana, let's leave the former -- let's leave the president out of it for a minute.
NAVARRO: How? How do you leave the president out?
SINGLETON: Can you let me go to my point, please? Is it not possible to agree that the original argument for free trade is indeed flawed? Is that not possible?
NAVARRO: Shermichael, they had this same position like up to like five minutes ago. It's not like there was like all of a sudden an evolution.
SINGLETON: But you're not answering my question.
NAVARRO: No. I will answer your question.
SINGLETON: The idea of free trade has indeed been flawed. There's a ton data on them.
NAVARRO: Let me answer your question. There are a bunch of coward, pusillanimous people who want to stay in power and be around Donald Trump, who wants to be --
SINGLETON: I'm arguing something very different. I'm arguing something very different.
NAVARRO: No, I'm arguing that they have no backbone and that they know that in order to stay --
SINGLETON: So, you think free trade has been good for the American people, for hard working people?
NAVARRO: Republicans, most Republicans for their entire career --
PHILLIP: I want to keep it on the economy.
SINGLETON: They were incorrect -- PHILLIP: I want to let Ashley Allison have a say and also return the conversation to the economy, because we have much more to discuss later in the show on the politics.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, I could watch that all day, so I wasn't going to interrupt. Okay. just a couple points. You talk -- I'm from Youngstown, Ohio, a blue collar area, manufacturing, steel mills, devastated by plants closing, car manufacturers closing. I just have real sad news for a lot of people living in places like Youngstown, Ohio. Many of those jobs are never coming back because the way we manufacture things have changed, because we have technology. And I think to associate the tariffs to jobs in revitalizing Youngstown, Ohio, is being dishonest with voters and with workers in that area. We need to think about new ways to create industries in our country.
I think the other thing, though, is to your point of China, we now have China, South Korea and Taiwan working together to think about how they will retaliate against America. And then I just want the words we are using in this conversation, retaliation and escalation, those are words you use in war. And I worry that we are -- when people in history, when these type of tariffs and attacks have happened, it often comes before we go into war.
And I will finally point out one of the places, if you look at the map, I think you were on Erin's when he, she showed the map.
QUEST: Oh, yes.
ALLISON: There are places that we don't even do trading with that are being -- having terrorists implied on them. But you know where it none is being applied? Russia.
QUEST: And Belarus.
ALLISON: Yes, and Belarus. There are places where there are no human beings.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: I think that this is a major thing Richard is, you know, Rana, I think always comes to this table, makes a case. It's not all tariffs, right, that are bad. But when you hit countries that are exporting coffee beans with 50 percent tariffs, we are not going to be producing coffee beans here in the United States. So, what are you going to do about it?
QUEST: Laura Tyson summed it up years ago in her book, Who's Bashing Whom, when she said America will have a shoe industry when Americans are prepared to pay more for shoes.
PHILLIP: Right.
QUEST: But the point you made, which I just want to pick up on, you just -- you said, and I'm reading the note, we can debate the methods of which it's being done. But the fundamental principle of free trade has got its problems. We can debate the methods. But, sir, we're not just debating the methods. This is the massive execution of the policy that he's put in place. The debate on the methods is the point, because the method is so extreme that is being implemented. That is the point. This is the equivalent --
FOROOHAR: and that's what I worry about, because actually the point about fair and free trade is a very important --
QUEST: Of course.
SINGLETON: It is.
FOROOHAR: And what's what I really fear right now is that he is so bungling the way this is being done, allies are turning against us, China is rushing to fill the void, as you point out. And you're also right that a lot of the manufacturing jobs aren't coming back.
Now, is that a reason that we shouldn't have critical industries, like ships, et cetera? No, it is not. But guess what? It's all about the nuance, and Donald Trump isn't a guy that does nuance.
[22:15:03]
PHILLIP: Before you get in, Shermichael, I just want to play -- this is principally a car dealer talking about what this is going to do to car prices tomorrow. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVE KELLEHER, PRESIDENT, DAVID AUTO GROUP IN PENNSYLVANIA: That car could go from $30,000 ostensibly to $37,500, and it's that quick. And that kind of change in a price moves that payment $175 a month. And our customers, they're middle class people. They just can't afford that kind of bump,
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, the very people who have been hollowed out are now going to be slapped with price increases like that on everything, everything, from their clothes to their shoes, to their cars, to their groceries. Make it make sense.
SINGLETON: Well, look, to the point that I was making earlier, and I really want to hear from the two economic experts on this, if you're going to do this -- again, I personally think there's a more effective and comprehensive way to do this well to at least not pass on so much of this essential tax to the consumer. I would really like to explore some type of tax or deduction for corporations or businesses or manufacturers. I would like to also look at potential rebates as it pertains to car dealers so that they don't have to increase prices, I think, up to $2,700, I believe, this person. So, what would that potentially look like?
FOROOHAR: Well, it's interesting because would that part look like you're getting to an important point. You know, I don't know that I would pick those particular measures, but it's about a 360. Because when -- let's, again, pull the lens back. You are changing the global economy, as we've known it, for the last, you know, 50 to 70 years, big deal. And you got to get everybody in the room and get some agreement. That is not happening with --
PHILLIP: Is Walmart going to swallow the cost? I mean, Scott Bessent said tonight that he thinks that all these retailers are just going to take it. They're going to take the 25 percent, the 30 percent, the 46 percent.
QUEST: No, because their shareholders won't let them because that will go to the bottom line. Just one other point, the U.S. is no longer the vast majority of global trade. What was it after the Second World War? 50, whatever it is, percent. Now, the U.S. --
FOROOHAR: We were 60 percent. Now, we're at 26 percent of global trade.
QUEST: On a good -- 13 percent of international trade, 13 to 15 percent. What you're going to see is people bypassing the U.S. trade industry. You're going to see south and south.
And if you are, say, for example, I say I mentioned Australia, you know, they've got an election at the moment. Canada's got an election at the moment. The E.U.'s just got a new commission and a new commission president. Do you really think they're just going to sit back?
FOROOHAR: Yes, they can't.
PHILLIP: The statement from Australia tonight was, this is not the action of a friend, because it's not, and they're not happy about it.
NAVARRO: And it's also contributing to people not coming to this country, people -- tourism --
PHILLIP: Tourism and trade.
NAVARRO: Canadian, Europeans.
PHILLIP: Richard Quest, Rana Foroohar, thank you both very much for joining us. Everyone else stick around.
Coming up next, Republican senators are defying Trump over these tariffs by voting against them, and his former vice president also with some harsh words. We're going to debate the politics of this some more up next, and how the hurt may be coming.
Plus, after a very expensive political defeat, is Elon Musk on his way out of the White House? New details on his standing with President Trump,
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: One Republican calls Donald Trump's to do tariffs economic suicide. His former Vice President Mike Pence calls it the largest peacetime tax hike in American history. And tonight, more Republicans are joining that chorus with their votes, four Republicans breaking rank and backing the resolution against Trump's tariffs against Canada. That's Senator Mitch McConnell putting out a statement following the vote, calling the tariffs bad policy and attacks on everyday working Americans.
Arthur Aidala is at the table with us. Also joining us in our fifth seat at the table, John Hope Bryant, he's the founder, chair and CEO of Operation HOPE and the author of Financial Literacy for All.
John, I'll start with you because you were in Washington actually just yesterday. You met with Scott Bessent and a lot of what you do is about the economic opportunity --
JOHN HOPE BRYANT, FOUNDER AND CEO, OPERATION HOPE: Socioeconomic --
PHILLIP: -- for people of color, right? So, what is your sense of whether they are cognizant of how this stuff is going to trickle down to the people, working class people, you know, middle class people who are the biggest consumers in this country?
BRYANT: I don't think they are completely aware. And actually some of the questions was, you know, John, can you keep us posted, if we're missing something, let us know. It's really hard when you have a -- you know, I've served three presidents as advisers from both parties, and this one's unique in the sense that almost 100 percent of them are either sent to millionaires or billionaires.
And it's just really hard. It doesn't matter how nice you are or how kind you are, or how thoughtful you are, if you don't -- you've never been to an airport terminal, a bus station, a grocery store, if you've never been by a check casher, you've been in a $500 credit score neighborhood, it's just really hard to relate, you know, to the rigor of the average person.
So, you end up saying things and doing things like the commerce secretary said, I think it was a week ago, that are just tone deaf when he talked about, you know, if anybody's complaining about Social Security, they must be a crook, and his mother-in-law would not need to do anything because she could call him, obviously, she would miss her payment. So, you've got a situation where you can be sort of unintentionally out of touch because you just -- you never touch the average person.
[22:25:01]
And so I was actually a little impressed that what -- and, by the way, Bessent has spent some time in I think it was North Carolina hanging with underserved neighborhoods. We talked a little bit about that. But I was impressed that he asked me for counsel and he wanted to -- well, beyond the financial literacy work, he wanted to use that as a way to spread a line of communication.
PHILLIP: To your point about not touching the things that average people touch, here's Donald Trump today talking about groceries. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: An old fashioned term that we use groceries, I used it on the campaign. It's such an old fashioned term, but a beautiful term, groceries. It sort of says a bag with different things in it. Groceries went through the roof, and I campaigned on that. I talked about the word, groceries, for a lot. And energy costs now are down, groceries are down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I mean, I don't know that Donald Trump has ever been in a grocery store, put those food items in the bag.
NAVARRO: Beautiful things in the bag.
PHILLIP: Beautiful in the bag. And on Capitol Hill, they are -- the fact that you have a handful, almost, of Republican senators saying, this doesn't make any sense, that is a lot in this day and age. And I think it's a sign that they understand that for the regular people who are grocery shopping, this is going to hurt them.
ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. I mean, look, everything John said, I agree with. He's 100 percent correct how these people are out of touch. And that's -- I don't know whose fault that is. That's just the way it is. That's how these people didn't -- or was it George H.W. Bush got in big trouble because he didn't know how much a quarter of milk was in one of the debates.
The ideal -- so tonight, I spoke to an economist who I trust. The ideal that Donald Trump is trying to do, the art of the deal, with these tariffs is to bring other countries back to us and say, okay, all right, fine. Let's sit down. We'll pull back some of our tariffs. You pull back some of your tariffs so we can sell some cars in Japan where they don't buy a lot of American cars, and maybe they'll chill out with some of the tariffs on the -- that we charge them. I mean, that's the ideal. I'm not saying we're going to achieve that, but he's playing hardball real estate negotiations.
NAVARRO: You know what I think is one of the problems though, and these billionaires tend to say this, you know, we've seen them quoted saying this, that America, you know, should be able to withstand temporary pain. The problem is people living paycheck to paycheck and trying really hard to make ends meet, the people that are cutting the drugs in half in order to make it to the end of the month, can't endure temporary pain the way a billionaire can do so, right?
The problem is that we are already suffering under very high grocery prices. It's one of the reasons that Donald Trump got elected precisely about the egg prices, the egg price -- the eggs, by the way, which some of which we are now having to import from some of these countries that he is now slapping tariffs on.
And so it is so callous to say the art of the deal, he'll do this, he'll do that, because that's not going to happen in one day. That's not going to happen in one month.
AIDALA: But we don't -- here's the thing, we don't know. We don't know. It could happen tomorrow. Japan call tomorrow, like let's sit down and negotiate.
ALLISON: But you know what the likelihood that it happens by the way he did it is minimal because he did it. It gives more people the desire to start to work together against us than to say if he did it to two or three countries maybe, but to do a sweeping tariff. I just said last segment, there are enemies like South Korea, Taiwan, and China starting to work together because of what Donald Trump is doing. That is not actually -- you're helping them make deals, not make deals with us.
PHILLIP: One of the other scenarios, this is from the Journal in a pretty scathing op-ed tonight, The Wall Street Journal, they say that this is actually also opening the door to corruption. Mr. Trump is saying that there will be no tariff exemptions, but watch that promise vanish as politicians, including Mr. Trump, see exemptions as a way to leverage campaign contributions from businesses. Liberation day is buy another yacht day for the swamp, the swamp that he's supposed to be draining.
SINGLETON: Yes. I don't know if I would agree with the premise of that argument as articulated. Could you levy tariff imports on, or rebates rather on specific imports for certain industries? I think you can. That's one way to not have this compounding effect negatively on the consumer, particularly working class. I mean, these are things that you really have to think about and work through in a comprehensive way.
But I do want to go back to the notion that I was mentioning earlier, and, Ashley, you did touch on this, talking about Youngstown, Ohio, and how those jobs, they left, and it destroyed many towns and cities across the country. We do have to figure out how do you revitalize those places. And we're not discussing that.
Are those jobs -- okay, Ashley was touching on this.
[22:30:00]
Is it fair for politicians to say those jobs are going to come back in 2025 when we are on the cusp of A.I. -- we are on the cusp of technological revolution, because Trump slaps some tariffs that benefit the auto industry in the short term.
BRYANT: No. So, the -- the economy, your point, economy is we're the largest economy in the world. Seventy percent of this economy is consumer spending. Seventy.
Seventy percent of all Americans are living from paycheck to paycheck. If you're making a hundred thousand dollars a year, 50 percent of those are living from paycheck to paycheck. You're making $250,000 a year, a quarter of those are living from paycheck to check. About 35 percent of those are living from paycheck to paycheck. You live in Manhattan, you make a hundred thousand dollars, it feels
like $39,000. So, that's the starting point. People got too much month at the end of their money. And most folks are living -- before this, you know, before all this happened, they were already stretched because of what happened with the pandemic and all the money that flowed in, which triggered inflation, which was very stubborn because it was six or $7 trillion flowed in the economy.
The jobs that we're talking about were on their way out in the industrial revolution. It's no longer -- it's no longer makes any sense for us to manufacture old line manufacturing in the U.S. It's too expensive. That's why about 25 percent of our economy is tied to international trade.
You can have manufacturing, but it's going to be high-tech manufacturing. It's going to be tied to artificial intelligence. You can have manufacturing. You can, have a new economy, but you got to train people in artificial intelligence in mass. Financial literacy should be a civil rights issue. A.I. literacy should be a civil rights issue.
PHILLIP: But that's not really I mean, you know, it's not -- he's right. Right? But it's not what is being -- that's not what's being talked about.
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But that goes to my point of a comprehensive economic strategy to revitalize these cities that are struggling.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There are children that are going to go hungry.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah.
NAVARRO: Because their parents can't afford to pay the higher prices on groceries. And add to the -- add to the tariffs on groceries the fact that you're also deporting a bunch of people who in the United States would --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: We got to leave -- we got to leave it there.
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: And income programs that then would feed those see those --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Right.
ALLISON: It's like a double win.
PHILLIP: There -- there's so much to this conversation but we do have to leave it there. We have much more ahead though on the show. Coming up next, has Elon Musk's experiment run its course? The new denials about his future at the White House after an embarrassing defeat in Wisconsin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:37:00]
PHILLIP: He's the President's favorite billionaire, his scalpel man. And now, is he Donald Trump's political poison? It's no secret that Elon Musk is a polarizing addition to Washington between his mass firings and his monopoly of influence.
But there may now be proof that his presence is an electoral drag after a very expensive defeat in Wisconsin where Musk spent time and millions of dollars trying to add to conservative power to the State Supreme Court. And tonight, both he and the White House are now denying rumors and
reports that his exit is imminent. Well, they are denying that it's because Trump is upset, but in a way, his exit is imminent. He's a special --
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: He has a whole--
PHILLIP: Yeah. He has a special government employee, so he's got 130 days. May 30th would be his last day. But he also is the most unpopular thing that the administration is doing. He is the most --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: And that's a very high bar.
PHILLIP: -- person in the administration. It is, in a way, a drag because he made the Wisconsin race all about him, and he moved that entire state to the left.
SINGLETON: When Democrats, to -- to their effectiveness, made it about him more so than Donald Trump and Republicans. But I would say to Musk's credit, the Republican there was having a hard time raising money. As a result, we actually saw an increased turnout for Republicans, granted, Democrats had higher turnout for obvious reasons that we've been debating in the previous segment.
So -- so, you did see some positivity from the Republicans' perspective as a result of Elon Musk's investment. I think it perhaps would have been better if he had invested a lot more and not actually going there in person, but Democrats also have their share of billionaires who invest in races, as -- as well.
This thing has been continuous for politics for a long time now. He's going to go back and run his companies, but my hope is that he will continue to support Republicans electorally because we'll need him.
NAVARRO: And I -- I don't get that. PHILLIP: To run his companies.
NAVARRO: I --I think the difference between the -- there were billionaires who gave money in this Wisconsin race, right? Them -- on the Democratic side, but they didn't show up.
ALLISON: Right.
NAVARRO: Make fools of themselves with foam blocks of cheese on their head and, you know, trying to pretend like they know anything about Wisconsin. I don't get this relationship between Donald Trump and -- and Elon Musk. I just think they can't quit each other. You remember earlier, maybe it was --
ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It's a bromance.
NAVARRO: -- December or January, when -- when Elon Musk tweeted before Trump against -against the -- the speaker's plan. And there was also all these rumors then that Elon Musk had fallen out of favor with Trump. And you saw then Trump calling him back. You see Elon Musk get away with doing things that I don't think anybody else would.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, here's what CNN's reporting says in answer to your question.
NAVARRO: His kid is spreading boogers on the wrestle loop desk at the Oval Office, for God's sakes.
PHILLIP: CNN reporting says, "The President has no intention of distancing himself from Musk," that's according to "-- a Trump top Republican official who visited the West Wing on Wednesday. Their relationship is forever solidified by how he helped deliver the White House victory last fall."
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: I mean, that's kind of a circle.
ALLISON: I think, yeah.
[22:40:00]
Here's what I was saying.
PHILLIP: It's -- it's not that hard because he just spent almost $300 million to help Republicans.
ALLISON: Yeah, and he's also -- and so yesterday, not only did he spend money in Wisconsin, he also spent money in Florida. And I expect him to spend a substantial amount of money in the midterms and probably --
SINGLETON: I hope he does. ALLISON: -- even -- and probably even this year in New Jersey and Virginia. This is what I think. You mentioned distractions. This is what I think Donald Trump is actually really, really good at is his timing is sometimes impeccable with releasing people.
And when that 130 days go and Elon -- Elon Musk becomes even more unpopular as the day goes on and Donald Trump's -- Trump's approval rating begins to decrease, he -- that exit, we know what's happening. He will spend that is his decision for him to leave. He will spin that give me another six months because Elon Musk is gone and I'm going to fix the mess that Elon Musk made.
He will blame Elon Musk, and they probably have already coordinated this. But, like, I am not going to be distracted. The reason why they made the Wisconsin race about Elon Musk is because Elon Musk is implementing Donald Trump's policies. And he is less popular now than Donald Trump, but they should not -- we are -- I'm not going to allow them to disconnect themselves even when a hundred thirty days go because he has to own chainsaws on stages --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: Well, Democrats --
PHILLIP: Let me -- let me let John in, because we don't have much time left here. But Elon's company's 13 percent drop in demand for his vehicles globally, they are struggling. He's actually acknowledged that and, he his standing among just everyday people, I think, has totally turned upside down just in the last few months. I mean, he used to be sort of like Elon Musk, like the genius, the -- the Tesla guy, and I think now he's become something totally different to the average American.
BRYANT: Well, yeah. He's a genius who has a blind spot called people. I mean, he -- he lacks an empathy button. And this is not a country, she's an idea. And -- and you got to be careful about how you treat her. Being in -- in a relationship, and you would know this, there's a difference between being -- being married and being right.
AIDALA: Oh, were you in my living room this morning
BRYANT: So, so you can be right, but you won't be married for very long. And -- and so --a
ALLISON: That's right, brother.
AIDALA: He's -- he's heading home right now.
BRYANT: So, so if he -- if he happens to be right under a couple items, he's going about it, one could argue, with blunt force objects. It's the wrong way to treat Americans who -- who feel things, who care about things. It's a-- it's a wrong way to go into a -- or is there an inefficiency in the government? Of course, there is.
Is there bloating? Of course, there is. But you go in there surgically. You go there with compassion. You understand these people are given their lives for public service. They mean well. And you find the weak parts and you carve them out.
You don't go with a blunt force object. You don't show up on a stage with a chainsaw. So, I -- I think that if you were trying -- to your point now, if you're trying to understand, though, how far you could push certain items, then Elon Musk makes perfect sense for the president.
AIDALA: But he's also exposed himself, Abby. In other words, he was just this mysterious guy, Elon Musk, Tesla, this, that. All of a sudden, he was on TV every day.
PHILLIP: Yeah, we -- we've seen too much.
AIDALA: He's saying that he's in the White House. Exactly.
PHILLIP: Yeah.
AIDALA: He's overexposed.
PHILLIP: Well, all right.
SINGLETIME: Well, his time is coming to an end, and I think once he goes away a little bit, his favorability will once again rise. Elon Musk has given a lot to his country, but he can't deny that.
NAVARRO: When are the one hundred and thirty days over? Not that I'm counting?
PHILLIP: In May -- May 30th. May 30th. John Hope Bryant, some relationship advice for all of us. Fellows, take notes.
ALLISON: Notes.
PHILLIP: Thank you very much for joining us. Everyone else, hold on. Coming up next, new revelations from one of Joe Biden's top loyalists about his state of mind, including how out of it the President was before that infamous debate and unaware apparently of what was happening inside his own campaign.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:48:24]
PHILLIP: So, just how worried were Biden aids before the former president's disastrous debate last summer? According to Ron Klain, his chief of staff, his concerns could not be overstated.
The former Biden chief of staff spoke to the journal -- journalist Chris Whipple for his new book that details last year's unconventional race. And just four days before the debate, Klain recalled that Biden didn't know what Trump had been saying and couldn't grasp what the back and forth of the campaign was.
And at his first meeting with Biden for debate prep, quote, "Klain was startled. He'd never seen Biden so exhausted and so out of it. Biden was unaware of what was happening in his own campaign. Half through the session, the President excused himself and went off to sit by the pool."
In a statement to CNN, Klain said the excerpts from the book distorted his meaning. He says, "I had no doubts then or now about the President's mental acuity. My point was that he was exhausted from travel and sick and overly focused on foreign affairs and detached from domestic policy." He says that Biden "-- was not in the flow on the arguments of the campaign and was focused on Ukraine and Israel."
I am not sure that is the defense that he thinks it is.
UNKNOWN: Oh, man.
AIDALA: And here's the bottom line, having nothing to do with the excerpt. That special counsel who interviewed President Biden about why he had the files in his garage, I mean, his ultimate conclusion was basically Biden wasn't up like, he like, he shouldn't be prosecuted out of sympathy. He's an --
(22:50:00]
UNKNOWN: He's an elderly man.
AIDALA: He's an elderly man who has a very bad memory and doesn't remember anything that happened.
PHILLIP: Ashley, do you feel lied to?
ALLISON: Yeah, I do. I think it -- I think it -- I hadn't been around the President before that debate and I worked for Joe Biden. And if the people around him knew that he was not capable, it is unacceptable to me that they allowed him to go on to that stage. I deserve better as a voter, not even as a Democrat, as a voter and as an American.
I do.
PHILLIP: Ana, I know that Joe Biden is a friend, but -- but in this excerpt, the -- the part about the pool he went off -- this is in the middle of debate prep, went off to the pool and he took a nap. And that was before the biggest debate of this campaign.
That's not even the governance of the country. So Joe Biden, maybe he has the best intentions. I'm sure that you believe that. But the right decision, it seems, pretty unequivocally, is that he should not have run for reelection.
NAVARRO: Look, I -- I was also just texting with Ron Klein and -- who vehemently says he-- he was taken out of context. I'll tell you -- I'll tell you my experience, which is what -- what I can talk about.
I've known Joe Biden for over 25 years. Certainly, the Joe Biden today is not the Joe Biden of five years ago, 20 years ago, 15 years ago, 25 years ago. It's not. But also, I will tell you, and I think that comes out also in the book, in the excerpt that -- that I read. Something clearly happened that day around those days that was not the case the day after. I saw Joe Biden 24 hours after that debate here in New York. He was a
completely different person. I saw Joe Biden when he came to "The View" after he dropped out. And he was a completely different person than what we saw at that debate.
What happened around those days? I don't know. And can I tell you something? I don't care because I want to talk about the future and how we get -- we fight Donald Trump and how we get a break.
AIDALA: Ana, he was not a -- he was not a completely different person. He did the Stephanopoulos debate to -- interview to try to save him. He did your show to try to save him. He just -- look. He's the guy who's in his mid-80s. I'm not faulting him.
NAVARRO: He wasn't --
AIDALA: He just wasn't the Joe Biden who was elected four years ago.
NAVARRO: He wasn't. He wasn't the one five years --
AIDALA: And his family should have pulled the plug.
NAVARRO: I said that. I said that.
SINGLETON: But they should have and so should his advisers. I mean, talk about a big cover up. I mean, we've been talking a lot about Donald Trump lately. You know, I just want to ask a simple question. Who in the heck was running the country?
If the president's mental acuity was in question and some days he's on and some days he's off, was the guy really capable of doing the job day to day? I honestly really question that. And -- and I think a lot of Democrats who said at the time, oh, Joe Biden is the fittest guy in the world. He could do backflips. He could do jump into the pool, run marathons, do a hundred push-ups.
When every freaking person who saw Joe Biden said there's no in hell this guy is physically fit, but they told us don't believe your lying eyes because we're with him every single day.
ALLISON: You know what?
SINGLETON: It wasn't true. It wasn't true.
PHILLIP: Can I just add one, one more reason. Just so people understand the other part of this. Ron Klain was talking about how Joe Biden seemed obsessed with what the world thought of him.
Klain wondered half seriously, according to the book, if Biden thought he was president of NATO instead of the U.S., quote, " -- he just became very enraptured with being the head of NATO. That wouldn't help him on Capitol Hill because his claim noted domestic political leaders do not care what Macron and Schultz think."
ALLISON: Here --here's --
PHILLIP: And he was running for reelection.
ALLISON: Here's what I will say. I try and be an honest broker when I talk about things on this show, and I do think that that does not always happen with other guests. What we are learning --
AIDALA: Present company excluded.
ALLISON: Present company --
AIDALA: OK, thank you. Just to make sure.
ALLISON: What -- what we are hearing right now is unacceptable to me, and I am a Democrat. And I think in order for this country to get back on the right track, when things like this are exposed, we have to call falls and strikes right and wrong.
That night of the debate was terrifying for many, many. It was scary. It -- it hurt my heart, but it was very clear that that might not have been the first time. And I find that -- I find that unacceptable. I would find that unacceptable in a Trump administration, in an Obama administration, in a Bush administration, and in a Biden administration.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Why, why do you think that it wasn't the first time?
PHILLIP: All right, we really have to leave it there.
AIDALA: Because you don't just fall off the cliff that quickly. It's a slow decline.
PHILLIP: All right, everybody. Thank you very much for joining us. The FAA is stepping in after an air traffic controller got in a brawl with a colleague at Reagan National Airport. We'll explain next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:59:26]
PHILLIP: Tonight, it's just about the worst place to have an office fight. The FAA is taking action after a brawl in an air traffic control tower at Reagan National Airport. The agency says that they're sending, quote, "stress management teams" to meet with air traffic controllers and they're increasing the number of controller supervisors.
A controller was arrested and charged with assault after a fight broke out there. Over what? Well, that is not clear. But the controllers have been dealing with increased stress after a mid air collision over the Potomac and close calls as recently as last week.
[23:00:00]
Thank you very much for watching "NewsNight". You can catch me anytime on your favorite social media -- X, Instagram and TikTok. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
