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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Damning Revelations About Biden White House's Deception About Health; Trump Under Fire On Middle East Trip Over Private Conflicts; Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) Is Blocking Trump DOJ Nominees Over Qatari Jet Gift; Qatar Offers A Luxury Jet Gift To Trump; "NewsNight" Discusses Emoluments Clause. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired May 13, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, deception at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
JOE BIDEN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Not a joke.
PHILLIP: Damning. New revelations about how far Joe Biden's White House went to hide his hell.
Plus, Donald Trump's free jet comes with a cost.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): It is also a grave national security threat.
PHILLIP: What Democrats are doing to keep the new Air Force One grounded.
Also, billions and blurred lines, the president gets the red carpet treatment in his first official trip overseas, but who's paying for the runway?
And --
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I don't like permanent enemies.
PHILLIP: -- the president's new philosophy on America's foes includes olive branches to those MAGA called terrorists.
Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Bakari Sellers, Kevin O'Leary, Karen Finney and Van Lathan.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about, Joe Biden totally effed us. That quote from a top Kamala Harris official, as we learned damning new details about the lengths that the White House went to allegedly cover up his declining health, and as George Clooney reportedly said, how they deceived Americans.
A new book from CNN's Jake Tapper and Axios' Alex Thompson sheds light on the events that eventually led to Biden dropping out of this race. Those revelations include staffers contradicting warnings from his doctor, staffers fearing that he'd be in a wheelchair during a possible second term, the inner circle shielding Biden from his own staff, how Biden didn't recognize George Clooney, who is not only a huge movie star, but is a long time supporter at a fundraiser. How Barack Obama had to rescue Biden several times during that same fundraiser from jumbled speech to lost moments.
And all of this has liberals furious, including David Plouffe. That is the Kamala Harris official who railed against Biden's decision not to leave the race earlier, quote, we got so screwed by Biden as a party. The compressed 107-day race was an effing nightmare. Biden totally effed us. And the quote from Clooney himself saying, the deception by Democrats is, quote, how Trump won.
These revelations are why Biden, I think, came out in the last week to try to maybe get ahead of it, but it paints a pretty damning picture of a White House, Bakari, that knew that Joe Biden perhaps was not up to the task and also a president in Joe Biden, who clearly wasn't willing to do what everybody around him seemed to know was the right thing.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. I mean, I think you're finding a picture of things that many people didn't know. That's more than disturbing. And I think those people have to answer questions and let's call them by name. I mean, I think the Anita Dunns of the world have to answer questions.
The Valerie Biden Owens have to answer questions. So Jill Bidens have to -- the Richettis have to answer questions. All of those people who were in the inner circle of Joe Biden have to answer those questions of how infirmed was he? What did we know?
Many of us who were on that circle or the periphery on the outside of that, I mean, when we had the debate, we were told he had a cold. We weren't even -- I didn't even know he had a cough until afterwards. But that's neither here nor there. Joe Biden or Kamala Harris, or Shapiro, or whomever it may have been, were not going to beat Donald Trump. And it did not have to do with the level of infirmity.
PHILLIP: I don't think you can say that definitively, Bakari.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: 107 days.
PHILLIP: I don't -- well, I mean -- right? Well, okay.
SELLERS: I mean that --
PHILLIP: So, there's a question of whether another candidate would've beat Donald Trump or whether any candidate would've had a chance to do it in 107 days. And I think that's what David --
SELLERS: But that's my point. My exact point is that no one in that timeframe. And even if -- and let's be extremely clear, there's no rule within the Democratic Party process that allows you or us to make a candidate withdraw. He has to do that on his own volition. Joe Biden has to come to that conclusion.
PHILLIP: There were people who saw Joe Biden between 2023 and 2024 who came away from those experiences, shaken by what they saw.
[22:05:02]
So, not just the people in the inner circle, but people who had like passing interactions with him, it seems.
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN, O'LEARY VENTURES: How about we change the law between the president of the United States, the leader of the free world and his personal doctor in this one case, because cognitive health is actually security for the country. And so you decide you're going to become the president. You agree to this covenant?
You don't abide by the Hippocratic oath of the privacy between the doctor and the president. He discloses to the American people every 90 days the state of the president's cognitive health. It's that simple. If you seek the supreme office, the leader of the free world, you give up the right for privacy with your doctor on a cognitive health test.
This poor man was broken. Look at his what -- look what happened to the country and look at how he's being beaten up. It's almost immoral what we're doing to him now to sell books. I was there at the White House dinner watching this. The same reporters who didn't report on him are profiting from his decline.
PHILLIP: Which dinner?
O'LEARY: It's outrageous what they're doing.
PHILLIP: Which dinner, by the way?
O'LEARY: White House Correspondents' Dinner.
PHILLIP: Oh, you're talking about just a few weeks ago.
O'LEARY: I was disgusted.
PHILLIP: Let me --
SELLERS: So like --
O'LEARY: It's outrageous.
SELLERS: I think we have an agreement. Like I think that you -- every 90 days, Ronny Jackson should not be the doctor for Donald Trump. Have an independent neurologist come in.
O'LEARY: 100 percent. SELLERS: And let's have --
O'LEARY: 100 percent, there we go. That's --
PHILLIP: I guess in a world in which you have, you know, the Dr. Ronnys of the world who will say that the president hung the moon, I'm not even so sure that that's really going to cut it.
O'LEARY: He is lying.
PHILLIP: I mean, I think -- but this is -- I think this is a fundamentally political problem. Chuck Schumer, according to an excerpt of the book, this is what it says, Schumer wasn't concerned about Biden's acuity, but he was worried about the optics. Another wedding guest who sat at Schumer's table, this was at a wedding, recalled him saying, if things go south at the debate, me, Barack, Nancy, and Hakeem have a plan B. Schumer would later deny it.
It's a political problem that we have here.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Did he mean goes south at the debate in that Joe Biden totally, you know, had a malfunction the way we saw, or did he mean just go south at the debate like he doesn't perform well? The fact it --
PHILLIP: It could have been both.
JENNINGS: The fact that he was only concerned about the optics and not about the fact that the president of the United States might be in cognitive decline, might be mentally impaired, to me, speaks volumes about the lack of character of Chuck Schumer.
But the idea that we did not know about this for the years leading up to the presidential campaign, we all saw it with our own eyes, video after video, speech after speech statement after statement, the Hurr report, the fact that we had people saying today, oh, I didn't know, we had no idea, is outrageous. That's number one. Number two, the cover-up is outrageous. And number three, people were arguing with a straight face that this man could serve four more years until, of course, it became untenable at the debate.
Honestly, you know, Jake and Alex have done a great service here. This book needs to be written. These stories need to be told because we've lived through the greatest scandal in modern American political history, the cover-up of the decline of the president, the argument that he can serve four more years, if he were in office today, if he had somehow won him were office day, you'd have the same people on T.V. today saying he's fine, behind closed doors, he's fine, and you know it.
VAN LATHAN, PODCAST CO-HOST, HIGHER LEARNING: I'm for extreme transparency when it comes to presidents, their tax returns whatever it is. I want to know all the information I can get on men who seek -- men and women, people who seek the highest office.
The reality is this. I was actually at the fundraiser that he was there with President Obama and with Jimmy Kimmel. He's between two of the sharpest guys in culture. And it was obvious that something was wrong. And when the average people made that observation, they were told over and over and over by political establishment that something was wrong with their eyes. Look, you knew it.
JENNINGS: Cheap fakes, cheap fakes.
LATHAN: But more -- here's the deal.
PHILLIP: I think we also have the video of Obama guiding Biden off the stage that the Biden campaign, you know, vociferously denied was some kind of sign of his decline, but you see it there, Van.
LATHAN: Yes. I'm in the audience there, right. And everybody's watching it and everybody's kind of seeing it.
Look, for the infrastructure of the party, your girl goes through your text messages, it's better when all the information is out. You are in a better situation when everything is on the table. You know, how you done messed up. You guys can begin the healing, just begin the healing and get over it. Obviously, there was some deception, but you have to move past it now. But nobody was fooled they put eyes on your --
JENNINGS: But it wasn't just deception about a campaign. The man was the sitting president of the United States.
[22:10:02]
There's more at stake here than just politics. There's in the moment decision-making. Was the country at risk? Who was making decisions on behalf of the country? Because obviously the president was impaired and there were people who knew it. There were people -- those same people were lying about it publicly. And now the real question is who was making decisions behind the scenes? You can't just move past it. It happened and you can't --
PHILLIP: Why didn't any of the people around Joe Biden say, Mr. President, don't do this? I mean, forget about what they say publicly. Sure. What about privately? It doesn't seem that anybody has said that he did that. No, I mean, before it became a public spectacle in the year before he was on that debate stage.
FINNEY: it's absolutely malpractice. When he said, he promised us the first -- that he would do one term. He'd be a bridge. And, by the way, Bakari and I are two of the people who for a very long time in those years kept saying, let's get the V.P. ready, let's get the V.P. ready. And they didn't do that. That's the other piece that I think was malpractice if your intention was to be a transitional president.
So, I'm not going to argue that -- I certainly wasn't around the guy enough to know, certainly when we saw things like that. It was a little -- and at the same time though, we got to have radical transparency all around. I mean, Scott, you're asking very important questions, but let's ask those same questions.
And it's not just about your cognitive impairment, by the way. I think it's about your physical health as well. I think we should know if a president is healthy, top to bottom, by the way. At the same time, I think we also have to have radical transparency about everything that's going on behind closed doors that is not a national security risk.
We have a current president who has done away with all of the inspectors general, every means of any kind of independent assessment of what is going on. So, if we're going to say, I'm fine with saying what happened was malpractice, it shouldn't have happened, there are a lot of unanswered questions, we'll see how many of them are answered in the book, but we can't sit here in this moment and just look at Biden and not actually also look at what's happening right now in 2025 in the ways that this president is abusing his power.
SELLERS: But I think that there is actually a larger argument that people have made missteps in trying to make. I think that there is a certain level of dignity and respect that goes along with public service. And I think that we are also in a point trying to balance that and understand that there's time for a new generation of leadership as well.
And regardless of my good friend, Scott, and what he may say about the greatest scandal in the history of American politics, I don't think anybody --
JENNINGS: I said modern.
SELLERS: Modern. I don't think anybody watching this will actually believe that.
JENNINGS: What's bigger than the cover-up of the decline of the president?
SELLERS: I can't say it because it's in segment two, but taking a $400 million plane.
JENNINGS: Oh, please.
SELLERS: But we'll deal with that. But what I'm also saying is something I think we can all agree --
O'LEARY: What does a plane have to do with cognitive --
SELLERS: But what I'm saying is I was talking about the scandal. So, follow me, Kevin. But what I am saying is that there's something that we can agree with is that I believe it's time for us to turn the page and have a new generation of leadership in this country.
JENNINGS: If I were you, I'd want to turn the page too, because the page --
SELLERS: Chuck Grassley is 112.
JENNINGS: The page that we're reading out of the Tapper-Thompson book are pretty bad --
SELLERS: I mean, but it's on both sides.
PHILLIP: So, let me just read real quick. This is what the Biden spokesperson said in response to some of this. Yes, there were physical changes as he got older, but evidence of aging is not evidence of mental incapacity. And as far as we -- and so far we are still waiting for someone, anyone to point out where Joe Biden had to make a professional decision or a presidential address where he was unable to do his job because of mental decline.
JENNINGS: That's not true. The Hurr report, he had to testify. Robert Hurr wrote in a report, I can't even charge this man, because if I put him in front of a jury, they're going to say, oh, this is just a confused old man. We could never get a conviction. We had official government evidence that he was in cognitive decline.
And what did the White House do? They smeared Robert Hurr. They smeared him. Do you --
PHILLIP: I mean, I'm not disagreeing with the Rob --
JENNINGS: Do you not feel lied to? Do you guys -- the Democrats who ran your party, who ran the White House, the people who lied to you as a journalist, do you not feel any sense of outrage or a creed or anybody else --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: We don't what's going to be in the book, by the way. So, there could -- there will be more.
LATHAN: I'll say this. Like just for me, I'm not a party operative for either side, but the outrage and the indignation, it kind of falls on deaf ears because I feel like I'm getting lied to every other day by the political infrastructure of someone. I think the country is dying from a disease worse than COVID. That disease is whataboutism. So, as soon as we try to have this conversation, we talk about what about, what about, what about, the reality is this. I think that Americans saw that the president was not fit to serve another four years.
[22:15:02]
He did not serve another four years.
The question is, why did the party rally behind him and tell so many people that that was the case when it wasn't?
PHILLIP: And can I ask a question?
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on. I want to raise this because I think it's very important. What he just said, the party rallied behind Joe Biden after that debate specifically actually, and perhaps most precipitously elected black lawmakers --
SELLERS: That's not what happened though. That's not accurate. PHILLIP: -- who were incredibly loyal to Joe Biden.
SELLERS: But that's not accurate. That's not what happened.
PHILLIP: And I'm wondering if people I'm wondering if some of those people are also feeling lied to.
SELLERS: But that's not what happened.
(CROSSTALKS)
SELLERS: Let me explain to you what happened. Let me walk you through this process, because a lot of people watching --
O'LEARY: I think we all know what happened.
PHILLIP: Hold on, Kevin, just a second.
SELLERS: No, but you don't, because you're misinterpreting what happened.
O'LEARY: No. I'm very clear of what happened on.
PHILLIP: Hold on, Kevin. Let me let Bakari --
SELLERS: Just let me explain to you something you do not know for one second.
O'LEARY: I think I know.
SELLERS: So, what happened was there are a lot of people who believe that Kamala Harris did not deserve to be skipped over. There also in the same breath are a lot of people who believed and understood that only one person could make this decision. And we did not want a firing squad trying to destroy the Democratic Party from within while you're trying to win an election.
And so what we wanted to do was give Joe Biden the space to make a decision that we knew he would inevitably make while also making sure that the process was one whereby -- let me -- Kevin, I'm going to finish the sentences.
O'LEARY: Please do.
PHILLIP: You knew that he would inevitably make this decision, even though --
SELLERS: There was no question that after the debate --
PHILLIP: He was saying he would not do it?
SELLERS: After the debate, after the debate, we knew that there was one thing that could happened, only one thing that could happen, that he would make a decision.
Now, you're asking questions about being president of the United States, I'm thinking, in a campaign mode and who's running for president of the United States. And one of the things I will tell you is that there are a large swath of the Democratic Party, and people are going to say whatever, who did not simply want you to skip over Kamala Harris to be the nominee. And so, yes, there --
O'LEARY: You're not finishing this properly. I was here when we had this --
SELLERS: I'm not finishing my thought properly.
O'LEARY: Now we're going to talk about it. They did not run a process. They picked a loser and she lost and she got slaughtered because they didn't run the process.
LATHAN: First of all, like let's just make sure that we maintain some respect for Kamala Harris --
FINNEY: the former vice president of the United States.
LATHAN: I think referring to her as a loser --
O'LEARY: She was never elected in the process.
LATHAN: I think referring to her as a loser is disrespectful.
O'LEARY: She should have run against other contenders.
LATHAN: And I think that we need to make sure that we have --
SELLERS: That's -- you know, that goes back to the -- go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
JENNINGS: After Biden dropped out, I mean, he did basically disappear. He did show up at the convention. But from the point at which he dropped out of the campaign, he basically disappeared. And then after the Election Day, between that and the inaugural, he really disappeared.
And I think -- I just think there are legitimate questions about at that point, if he was not fit to run for office. I argued at the time he was not fit to serve in the office at the time, yet he was. He was not in the public eye. Decisions were being made, monumental policy decisions were being made. And I still want to know who was making them. Was the president actually --
SELLERS: You deserve those answers, first and foremost. And last, lastly, there's nothing about Kamala Harris that's a loser. Let's just put that aside.
O'LEARY: Oh, I think there is. She lost big time.
SELLERS: You got to --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Listen, we are not going to -- hold on. O'LEARY: I'm not being (INAUDIBLE). I'm talking facts. She got slaughtered because they disavowed the process. They anointed her and she got slaughtered.
PHILLIP: I just want to --
O'LEARY: That's what happened. We do not have to bake facts.
PHILLIP: Hold on a second.
O'LEARY: We do not have to bake facts.
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. Kevin, just one point of clarification, she was elected in the 2020 election along with Joe Biden. She was --
O'LEARY: She was anointed into that position.
PHILLIP: She was elected in 2020 on the same ticket as Joe Biden. So, there's that.
We got to leave it there for this conversation.
Coming up next -- come on, Kevin.
O'LEARY: It's true.
PHILLIP: That is -- we know that that's not true.
Coming up next, breaking news involving the free jet that Donald Trump is accepting from the Qataris as a new Air Force One, what the Democrats are doing to protest that plane.
Plus, is Donald Trump Jr. the new Hunter Biden, the question asked by one outlet, as the family's conflicts of interests grow? We'll debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, the lines are getting blurrier. President Trump's multimillion dollar luxury plane from Qatar has Democratic heavyweights now demanding answers, or else.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHUMER: this is not just naked corruption, it is also a grave national security threat.
I am announcing a hold on all DOJ political nominees until we get more answers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Trump is jet setting across the Middle East right now stopping in Saudi Arabia before heading to Qatar and the United Arab Emirates. It is a region where the Trump family business ties have more than tripled since his first term. That's according to a new CNN report. In fact, Trump's family is doing billions in business in all three countries that he is visiting this week.
But what if this were a Democrat? Well, let Don Jr. tell you from back in the day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP JR., SON OF PRESIDENT TRUMP: I wish my name was Hunter Biden. I could go abroad, make millions off of my father's presidency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:25:00]
PHILLIP: Which seems to be exactly what's happening right now, and no one seems to care.
FINNEY: No, at least of all their own party. Although actually Laura Loomer and Ben Shapiro actually, and when Laura Loomer and Ben Shapiro agree with Chuck Schumer, you know you are in upside-down world, right, that this idea of this $400 million luxury aircraft, which, by the way, there are estimates that suggest it would cost the American taxpayers about a billion, with a B, dollars to actually -- because you have to take it apart, put in all the security measures and put it back together, and it probably wouldn't be done by 2029, is basically what they're saying.
Look, the grift of the Trump family, we saw it on display in the first term, we're seeing it on display in this term. It's not just the deals, you know, just before Trump does his trip to the Middle East, his sons were over there cutting deals. Their cryptocurrency business, the deals that he's doing with the Qataris around these Gulf resorts, the minimum bid, $500,000 club in Georgetown that's coming, right, so that you can -- literally, they're advertising it as you can hobnob with members of the administration.
I mean, look, politics is ugly and dirty and it shouldn't be that way. We know it is that way, but this -- it's now just at a point where he's normalizing just immoral behavior. And it used to be in our values that we said no, that was not okay. But when even his own party won't stand up to him, can't stand up to him, well, this is what we're left with.
PHILLIP: So, according to our reporting some of the deals going on right now, Saudi Arabia, two luxury towers, LIV Golf partnership, Qatar golf club and villas, UAE, luxury hotel, cryptocurrency deal, Oman, resort and golf project.
FINNEY: And the dinner.
PHILLIP: I mean this sincerely, I mean, does it bother you that this is happening at the same time that these nation states are also trying to curry favor with Trump himself?
JENNINGS: Well, it doesn't really bother me that people are in business for years, then their dad gets elected president and then they continue to go on in business. We knew we were electing a businessman president. We knew his family was in business. So, I think the American people have full visibility into that.
Number two --
PHILLIP: We're talking about new deals here. Not existing deals, new deals.
JENNINGS: Yes. Well, they're business people. They're cutting deals all the time.
PHILLIP: You're okay with them cutting deals while Trump is sitting in the White House, when he's going over there --
FINNEY: Specifically with countries that are actually doing negotiations with foreign policy.
JENNINGS: We're negotiating with every country in the world every day.
Well, let me answer your question, the specific criticism about Hunter Biden. All the things you just mentioned, towers, golf courses, hotels, resorts, tangible things.
FINNEY: Cryptocurrency and meme coins, Scott. Don't forget those.
JENNINGS: You do something, money exchanges hands, a service is provided, a tower is built, a golf course is developed. Can you name one tangible service other than finger paintings that Hunter Biden provided, any money, the change hands? You cannot.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: I think it's a fair critique about Hunter Biden of it all.
SELLERS: That's not apples to apples.
PHILLIP: But you're not addressing the fact that in all of these countries, in order to do any of these things, they have to go to the political leadership of the countries to get them approved. That doesn't address that at all.
SELLERS: But, Abby, at 10:07, Scott was telling me how the biggest modern day conspiracy we've had in terms of a president, scandal, was Joe Biden and his health. And he said that and then he criticized Chuck Schumer right about the fact that he didn't have any character because he didn't stand up to it.
But at 10:27, 10:28, the argument has changed because what we do know is that there is a $400 million jet from Qatar. What we do know is that there is a $5.5 million golf course in Qatar. What we do know is what Syria is offering Donald Trump. And what we do know is that the things that are happening in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia buying meme coins, that mean absolutely nothing.
The fact is, and I would love for Scott to be able to answer this question, but for the fact, and that's when you -- I didn't really do well in law school, but I remember but for, but for the fact Donald Trump is president of the United States, none of this would happen. And so that is what you call a kleptocracy.
And so when you have children, and, no, and one second, Kevin, because you wanted to talk about Kevin O'Leary -- excuse me, you wanted to talk about Kamala Harris being mediocre, Donald Trump Jr. and what's the other one?
FINNEY: Eric?
SELLERS: Eric are the definition of what mediocre is. And what I'm saying is that now they are reaping the benefits that their father --
O'LEARY: Can I guide you in a different direction?
SELLERS: Please.
O'LEARY: Just for a moment, please.
SELLERS: No, guide me. I'm blind.
O'LEARY: What does this have to do with Middle East policy, please? Just a moment.
FINNEY: Oh, no, please.
O'LEARY: What -- excuse me.
FINNEY: Oh, yes.
O'LEARY: Excuse me.
[22:30:00]
What does this have to do with the fact that he has tried to create a circle of friendship with the fastest growing geographies in the world before China does.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But wait a second.
O'LEARY: Wait. Wait. Let me finish. On this trip -- on this trip -- I --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: I just wanted to --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: This has nothing to do with policy.
SELLERS: Go ahead. Go ahead --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: What does this have to do with policy?
VAN LATHAN, "HIGHER LEARNING" PODCAST CO-HOST: One thing that I've heard from last four, five years is anytime anyone had any criticism on the United States' foreign policy in Gaza or whatever, is that these people were being paid by a resource-rich government that propped up and funded terrorism, which was over and cut it.
Every single time, they were buying influence in Ivy League schools. They were buying influence in social media. They were buying influence everywhere. So, anytime you saw somebody that --
O'LEARY: You want to push these countries away?
LATHAN: -- that you want to say, anytime --
O'LEARY: Do you want to push these --
LATHAN: -- somebody was thought to have any dealings with the Qataris, they were thought as being intellectually and morally tainted.
O'LEARY: There are --
LATHAN: Except the President of the United States who takes a $400 million plane from them, literally is refurbishing it to be Air Force One. O'LEARY: Who cares about the plane? What does that have to do with the fact --
LATHAN: You got it. You got it.
KAREN FINNEY, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON 2016 CAMPAIGN: Because it's disgusting. Because it's --
(CROSSTALK)
FINNEY: If you don't care about taking -
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: I don't get it. Why -- why focus on something that is irrelevant to the policy?
LATHAN: It's not irrelevant.
O'LEARY: It's completely irrelevant.
LATHAN: How is it irrelevant?
O'LEARY: Would you rather have the Chinese there? Would you rather have them there?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Kevin, Kevin, the United -- the United States Constitution would like to have a word. The United States Constitution would like to have a word. That's why people care. UNKNOWN: Yeah.
PHILLIP: Right? Because the reason that's in the Constitution is to prevent the President of the United States from accepting things --
O'LEARY: What's -- what's the goal of the trip?
PHILLIP: -- that are -- that are being perceived as a bribe.
O'LEARY: What is the national interest of this trip?
PHILLIP: The goal of this trip is not to get a giant gift that he can save, belongs to him as president, but then he takes with him when he leaves the office.
O'LEARY: Abby, you have to distance --
PHILLIP: That's not --
O'LEARY: -- yourself from Trump Derangement Syndrome. It's irrelevant to policy. It doesn't matter.
PHILLIP: Okay.
O'LEARY: What matters is why are all these A.I. guys --
PHILLIP: Have you heard of the Emoluments Clause?
O'LEARY: Wait. Wait. Why do you have all the leaders --
PHILLIP: Kevin, no, seriously. It's a serious question. Have you heard of the Emoluments Clause? Do you understand that that is in the Constitution?
UNKNOWN: He doesn't. No, he doesn't.
O'LEARY: No, I don't -- I don't debate in how many fairies' dance on a pin -- does not do policy.
PHILLIP: And do you understand that even if you think that maybe it might be okay, it's still -- it's still legally, incredibly dubious. You realize that, right?
SELLERS: So, let me ask you a question. So can I -- I'm sorry.
FINNEY: But Kevin doesn't operate by the same morals and ethics and values that we're talking about.
O'LEARY: I'm above that. I focus on policy.
FINNEY: Because you're so rich. You get to be above it.
O'LEARY: That's nothing to do with wealth. It's policy. Policy. Policy.
FINNEY: Yeah, but here's the point about the policy. Let me make one point, fellows. If someone is willing to take a $400 million plane from a government that -- the kinds of things that Van was talking about. People have, even Ted Cruz had some issues with this. What else is he willing to do? And you're -- you know, Scott, you're talking about these tangible things. Mean points are -
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: business people.
FINNEY: Mean points are tangible. They're nothing. Cryptocurrency is nothing. There is a bidding war going on right now with governments and countries and companies. We have no idea what their alignments are to buy enough meme coins, to buy access to our -- that's not --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: There -- there is story tonight in "The New York Times" about a very mysterious company that bought hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of Trump meme coins with limped -- from China. So, I mean, I mean, I think coins with limped I mean, I mean, I think with limped I mean, I mean, I got it. So, I mean, there's real questions and concerns about the money that is being made here.
JENNINGS: The emoluments thing you raised, I mean it's a good, it's a good question. It's a legitimate debating point, and I assume it'll ultimately be tested in court. The administration has a point of view on it. I assume they're going to be sued, or I don't know how you would get it into court on this. But my assumption is, ultimately the Supreme Court is the only people who can give us some arbitration on this, so I assume that's where it's headed.
O'LEARY: Scott, what about -- what about -- have we got a plan?
PHILLIP: All right. All right. We got to -- hold on. We got to -- we got to leave it there.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: And yes, when it comes to the Constitution, the Supreme Court does give a boot about that. Coming up next, Donald Trump delivers a new philosophy about America's enemies, one that Republicans once blasted Barack Obama about. We'll debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:38:57]
PHILLIP: Tonight, a surprising shift in America's foreign policy as Donald Trump removes all sanctions on Syria and extends an olive branch to Iran. And in a speech during his first official trip at this term, he delivered an interesting line about America's enemies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I have never believed in having permanent enemies. I am different than a lot of people think. I don't like permanent enemies, but sometimes you need enemies to do the job and you have to do it right. Enemies get you motivated. In fact, some of the closest friends of The United States of America are nations we fought wars against in generations past, and now they're our friends and our allies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: But with Trump's new philosophy and those olive branches have been ridiculed by conservatives not long ago. Well, remember, this is how they responded to Barack Obama's attempts to normalize relations with America's foes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY (R) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president began what I've called an apology tour of going to -- to various nations in The Middle East and -- and criticizing America.
[22:40:01]
I think they looked at that and saw weakness.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R) TEXAS: We've seen a pattern now where our friends and allies, they no longer trust us, and our enemies, they no longer fear us. First, it was Russia, then it's Iran, then it's Cuba. If the deal goes through, it will make the Obama administration quite literally the world's leading financier of radical Islamic terrorism.
MARCO RUBIO (R) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Today, we face ever growing threats. Radical Islamic terror, a lunatic in North Korea, a gangster in Moscow, and a president more respectful to the Ayatollah of Iran than the prime minister of Israel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: This is one of those moments where I mean, I don't know. I think that you can look at it two ways. One, you can look at it as Donald Trump, perhaps just not having any sort of hard lines on anything and being here, there, and everywhere. Or Trump doing something that a lot of Democrats might have praised him for, trying to do deals with our adversaries.
O'LEARY: Bismarck, Kissinger, both said the same thing. Some of the greatest politicians in history. There are no permanent enemies, only permanent interests. And talk about Japan, think about the second World War, not that far, not that far ago. Look at them today, one of the closest allies America has. There are no permanent enemies.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: And I think what Trump is saying -- what Trump is saying, listen, if we want stability, let's talk about our interests and I am very concerned about The Middle East having just come back from, you know, The UAE and I am blown away by the advancement they have that we don't have now in A.I.
It's amazing what they have and the reason all these A.I. guys, Zuckerberg and everybody that's in tech is on that trip, two days from now they're going to be in Abu Dhabi. And I think Trump wants to make sure this administration ties the loop on A.I. development with the -- with The UAE, not China.
PHILLIP: And so --
O'LEARY: That's what matters.
PHILLIP: -- just -- just take what he just said about no permanent enemies. The idea that The United States shouldn't want the chessboard to be frozen in place. I mean, just respond to that. I mean, do you think that that's something that you can get behind?
FINNEY: Yeah, look. I think it's important to always be playing the look at the near term and the long game when it comes to policy in general, certainly, when it comes to the world stage because our interests change as, I mean let's take Syria as an example. There was a revolution, the, you know, the Assad regime is gone.
There was some questions about how this new leader would do. I'm hoping that the Trump administration made some assessment that suggested this is the right thing to do in order to help perhaps get Syria on a better path, and that could be a good thing.
So, I certainly think our alignments change, but again, I think what you'll hear is more likely this is a negotiating tactic or this is, you know. I mean, it's hard for me to hear Donald Trump say, you know, no permanent enemies when he's making some retribution --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Let me play one more thing. Let me play one more thing. This is Trump talking about the nation builders and the interventionists from times past. Listen to this.
[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: In the end, the so called nation builders wrecked far more nations than they built, and the interventionists were intervening in complex societies that they did not even understand themselves. They told you how to do it, but they had no idea how to do it themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Well, I mean, I feel like if I took myself back to 2008, a whole lot of Democrats would have been saying that. People like Scott who believe that Western civilization is the only civilization that matters, might not even with what Trump is saying.
SELLERS: The weird part about this is that, like, I do believe that the new regime in Syria deserves a fair chance. I think Chris Murphy said it earlier, that lifting sanctions on Syria is actually the right thing to do. The person who might disagree with you is actually Tulsi Gabbard, who had this really weird affinity with Bashar al Assad, but that's a whole another segment that we can talk about.
The fact is, I am more enamored with the hypocrisy. I am more enamored with the fact that you can't recognize what this Republican Party is. And there is no such thing as a Reagan conservative anymore. There's no such thing as a -- as a George Bush conservative anymore. This is Donald Trump's party. He is putting his imprint on this party.
And what that means is, it means tariffs. It means price controls. It means kleptocracy. It means things like, this is what we're seeing, foreign policy for trade. And so, this is the new Republican Party. Democrats have to learn how to deal with this. But the -- the Republican Party that was founded in conservative values no longer exists.
PHILLIP: Yeah. I mean, I guess I'm I mean, putting the politics and the rhetoric aside, just from a straight up policy perspective, it just doesn't sound like you'd actually disagree with what Trump is doing on some --
[22:45:06]
SELLERS: No, with Syria?
PHILLIP: -- of this stuff.
SELLERS: No. No.
PHILLIP: Well, on Syria, but also philosophically about this idea of the failure of the nation building projects.
SELLERS: No, no. Let me explain where I do disagree with Donald Trump. There's no way that I'm giving the -- I'm giving Qatar a deal because they give me a plane.
PHILLIP: Sure. Yeah.
SELLERS: There's no way -- there's no way that I'm forgetting Saudi Arabia for the sins or Qatar for the sins of 9-11 because they -- they buy my meme coin. There -- there is no way that I'm doing that. And so, I am - no, no, no. I do agree with the very narrow perspective.
And I think all of us should agree because it's good foreign policy that we need to allow the Syrian government to have trade, to have rain, to attempt to flourish with a new leader. Bashar al-Assad needed to go 10 years ago, and that's Barack Obama's fault? That's Donald Trump one's fault?
PHILLIP: All right. I got to let Scott -- I got to let Scott and then Van before we go. So --
JENNINGS: I do think what is remarkable is that I mean, you -- you you've alluded to it. He has remade the Republican Party's orthodoxy on several issues. I mean, it's no small thing. And I think, whether it's on trade, whether it's on this issues of war and peace, it's not just the policy, it's also the language.
I mean, the party, to your point, had been a hawkish party. We spoke hawkishly. We acted hawkishly at times. Trump speaks of peace before he speaks of war. Not that he's averse to lighting up our enemies when it matters, ask the Houthi rebels. But he has reset the language of the Republican Party in a way that it -- you're right. It's not the same language of Bush. It's not the same language of Reagan.
And I do think he cares what's in the best interest of The United States. I think the political reset that occurred is, is that all the intervention, all the -- the war and the intervention that happened around the world, a lot of American people, Republican and Democrat, came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth it, and is there a better way, and do we have to be hemmed in by old ideology?
PHILLIP: Quick last word. Van, go ahead.
LATHAN: If you're in Gaza, I don't think that you think Trump is a very peaceful president as he talks about displacing you and cleansing you out of your place and sending you somewhere else. So, just, I guess, it depends on where you are.
From my, ears, when I hear him say what's best for America, I can't help but translate that to what's best for him. No one wants the proliferation -- I can never get that word right -- of nuclear weapons. No one wants any of that stuff but it just always seems like it's more about what fattens Donald Trump's pockets than it is about what makes America safe and secure.
PHILLIP: All right, got to leave it there. Coming up next, Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson are among those being reinstated by baseball. So, we'll discuss who else deserves a second chance in society.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:52:14]
PHILLIP: We're back and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap, Pete Rose edition. The record-setting baseball player can now be considered for induction into the baseball hall of fame decades after being declared permanently ineligible for gambling on the sport.
So, you each have 30 seconds to tell us who else deserves a second chance just like Pete Rose. Scott, you're up.
JENNINGS: I think it's time that we took a different look and a new look at the reign of Emperor Palpatine. I just, I -- I think maybe -- maybe I mean, you did a podcast on this. I think he's getting a bad rap. Look what he did. He took on an entrenched deep state at the Jedi Council. He tried to bring order to the, you know, he wanted free and fair and reciprocal trade around the galaxy.
LATHAN: "Boo of Alderaan?"
JENNINGS: Protected law and order. Well, I think some could argue that it was warranted given their rebellious activities. I mean, he defended the empire against unelected hippies and violent protesters. I'm just saying, it's been a while. We may need to take a look at this again and say, was he right? And maybe it's time to take a different look at his -
PHILLIP: Was he right about everything? And Bakari, you're up.
SELLERS: Mine is -- mine is a different thing, I will say, but I -- I'm with Milli Vanilli.
UNKNOWN: No.
SELLERS: I think that Milli Vanilli deserves a second chance.
UNKNOWN: That's good.
SELLERS: I think that we have, criticized them through a lens that probably today has shifted. The paradigm has shifted. We've seen people get second chances. We've seen duos get second chances. We -- the Menendez brothers, for example, are up for parole.
And I think that -- look. The fact is, that Milli Vanilli needs to be able to come out, go on tour. We all danced. Well, some of you all who are older than me and Abby danced to Milli Vanilli. Kevin and the rest of you guys danced to Milli Vanilli. And so, I think that they deserve a second chance. Let's bring it out.
LATHAN: Wouldn't be a date because one them is dead. But --
SELLERS: I missed that.
LATHAN: Yeah, see?
SELLERS: Because they were cast aside.
PHILLIP: Go ahead Van.
LATHAN: I had a great idea, and I think that hairlines should be allowed to come back.
SELLERS: Yes, they should.
LATHAN: Yes. If you see my new growth, it's -- I'm still on my road back to -- to my 20's.
SELLERS: That's not what the TV says.
JENNINGS: But you were going to be Thanos.
LATHAN: I know. I was going to do Thanos but I changed it. I changed it to my own hairline.
PHILLIP: I -- I am here for the hairline. Okay, go ahead Karen.
FINNEY: So, in a very different vein, I think it's time we bring back shoulder pads.
PHILLIP: Did they ever go anywhere?
FINNEY: They, which, remember they were a little bigger. They were working for me. I mean, you guys, gentlemen, you have them. I'm just saying maybe make them a little bigger. Because here's the real important thing, as you may recall, it gave me a nice -- it kind of -- you kind of went like that.
JENNINGS: Yeah.
FINNEY: So, it kind of helped accentuate the waist. And let me tell you, as a menopausal woman, I'm looking for a -
(CROSSTALK)
[22:55:00]
PHILLIP: They've gone nowhere in my wardrobe.
O'LEARY: Bring back those shoulder pads.
FINNEY: Bring back those shoulder pads.
O'LEARY: There -- there is no coming back. You know why? You lose 50 percent of your equity in perpetuity forever. Just remember, every word coming out of your mouth, like my mother said, always tell the truth, and you'll never have to remember what you said. Sorry, Pete. You don't get back in forever.
PHILLIP: Dang. On that note --
FINNEY: Wow.
PHILLIP: -- thank you everyone for being here.
SELLERS: No second chances?
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIP: Coming up next, the singer, Cassie, gets emotional on the witness stand testifying in the Sean "Diddy" Combs trial. Laura Coates was inside the courtroom and has all the details. That's after this.
