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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Bids Farewell To Elon Musk After Tumultuous Era; New York Times Reports, Musk Took Large Amounts Of Drugs, Including Ketamine; Sen. Joni Ernst (R-IA) Defends Medicaid Cuts, We All Are Going To Die; All Eyes To A Trans Athlete After Winning; Joe Biden Puts Behind 2024 Politics. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired May 30, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, the X man's finale.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Thank you, Elon.
ELON MUSK, TRUMP ADVISER: Thank you.
TRUMP: Take care yourself.
PHILLIP: As Elon Musk bids adieu to his DOGE rollercoaster, an explosive new report reveals he's been on a ride of his own.
Plus --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we all are going to die.
PHILLIP: -- a fiery Republican senator confronts a fiery town hall and may have inadvertently cut a new ad for Democrats.
Also, a high school track meet sprints to the center of a trans tug- of-war between Donald Trump and Gavin Newsom.
And --
JOE BIDEN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I can beat the hell out of both of them.
PHILLIP: -- Joe Biden speaks for the first time since his diagnosis and reveals why he thinks liberals didn't challenge him.
Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Cari Champion, Arthur Aidala and Christine Quinn.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Philip for a special edition of NewsNight this summer. You may be wondering why we're here. Well, this summer we are taking the show on some field trips, spending our Fridays right here at the Food Networks Kitchen in New York City, our sister company. We have a fabulous chef serving our friends here of the show, and she has a special treat for us at the end of the night, so stay tuned for that.
But in the meantime, as always, let's get right to what America's talking about. Elon Musk's DOGE days are over, at least for now. President Trump gave Musk a hero's farewell in the Oval Office today, including a key to the White House. He thanked the billionaire for taking his chainsaw, both literally and figuratively, to the government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Elon gave an incredible service. Nobody liked him, and he had to go through the slings and the arrows. which is a shame because he's an incredible patriot.
MUSK: So, I look forward to continuing to be a regular adviser to the president, continuing to support the DOGE team. And we are relentlessly pursuing a trillion dollars in waste and fraud reductions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Just a quick recap of what Musk's turbulent tenure has looked like, he clashed with Trump's cabinet, got thousands of government workers fired, accessed sensitive data systems, dismantled many government agencies cut foreign aid and funding for medical research, and now The New York Times is reporting that on the campaign trail, when he first got involved in politics in a big way, Musk was using drugs, like ketamine, Adderall, ecstasy, and mushrooms far more than what was previously known.
Here in our kitchen table here, we got our panel. But, look, Elon Musk was asked about this earlier today predictably. And let me just play what he had to say. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: There is a New York Times report today that accuses you of blurring a line between --
MUSK: Wait, is the New York -- is New York Times, is that the same publication that got a Pulitzer Prize for false reporting on the Russia gate? Is it the same organization?
REPORTER: I got to check my Pulitzer counter.
MUSK: I think it is. It is. And so I think the judge just ruled against The New York Times for their lies about the Russia gate hoax, and that they might have to give back that Pulitzer Prize. That New York Times, let's move on.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: That's what I like to call a DOGE dodge, if you will, definitely not answering the question there, but it -- well.
ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, if he comes to me and he's in possession of those drugs and he's in my law firm, I would tell him he did absolutely the right thing.
PHILLIP: He came to the right guy.
AIDALA: He did absolutely the right thing.
PHILLIP: If he hires you.
AIDALA: Deny, deny, deny. I mean, look I hope that's not true that he was taking all those drugs for a simple reason that it's just not a good thing to do for your brain, for your health. But, obviously, someone who is so close to the president of the United States, you want them to be as sharp and have their faculties that have their best judgment possible.
And people who I know, I mean, I don't know about Scott, who've eaten these mushrooms apparently. It kind of -- it doesn't make you think it's clearly true --
[22:05:01]
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: (INAUDIBLE) mushrooms were eating on that bar.
PHILLIP: Look I have to say we don't -- I mean, the Times story was interesting, but an important caveat. We don't know if whether he was doing any of these drugs while in this special government role but he's talked openly about his ketamine use in the past. And the questions being raised in the story are about his erratic behavior just in general. And these last few months have been characterized by Elon's erratic behavior and, frankly, his inability even to deal with the pressures of this government job, I think, raises a lot of questions.
CHRISTINE QUINN (D), FORMER SPEAKER, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL: Yes, I mean, look, I agree. I hope it's not true. Because if it's true, it appears and has reported that he has a drug problem, that could be quite serious. So, I hope it's not true. But regardless of whatever has caused his behavior, it's clear, it's been erratic. It's clear there have been times on television when kind of simple interview questions he couldn't answer, his words got slurred. And so you have to step back and say, is this guy, you know, fully in control of the situation?
And should somebody who looks so shaky and appears so shaky, be in a position where they're making enormous decisions about people's livelihoods and about the functioning of government shouldn't be in that position. If you look at some of those interviews, he couldn't really make full sentences strung together. People didn't know what he was saying.
JENNINGS: I have no idea what you're talking about. This is like --
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: Here's the bottom line. Liberals, Democrats, people who thought they owned people like Elon Musk, had been out of their minds since he decided to support Donald Trump for president and decided to come into this government. Every Republican's grateful for Elon Musk. He took a temporary job to try to jolt Washington on this issue of spending, and I think he did start a valuable conversation. The effort will continue.
But Elon coming over to the right, it's amazing the complete nonsense that has been spewed about him all because he made a simple choice to support a Republican for president and work for Republican administration. Now, he undergoes the character assassination. Now, he undergoes all the garbage. It's outrageous.
PHILLIP: I don't think it's all because of that. I mean, we've talked about this before.
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: That's a nice bedtime story, but that's not the whole story and you are actually accurate about what happens. You didn't -- when you interviewed him, you didn't talk to him about ketamine in a serious note. We just did a story recently about ketamine use. And I know that people -- I'm not a psychiatrist, but I know people use it seriously in doses, small doses to help them if they have depression. I don't want to put any bad rap on ketamine. But used in a way in which it's being reported that he was using it. It is dangerous and it's unfortunate and it.
And it's also scary to know that someone who has --
JENNINGS: Do you know whether it's true?
CHAMPION: I said, the way it is being reported.
JENNINGS: Do you know whether it's true?
CHAMPION: I'm still talking and I did not interrupt you. So, can it still be my point?
JENNINGS: Is it true?
CHAMPION: And someone who is using it that way could be dangerous. That's what it's being reported.
But the reality is that is something that if it was on the other side, you all would be losing your mind, Hunter Biden, to your point, outrage, outrage, outrage. Where is the outrage?
AIDALA: Friend?
CHAMPION: Hey, friend, where's the outrage?
AIDALA: Can we talk about the point that he made about The New York Times and the Pulitzer Prize and the Russian -- CHAMPION: And I (INAUDIBLE) what we're talking about.
AIDALA: That was a great retort, but it was --
(CROSSTALKS)
AIDALA: No. Hold on. It shows you he's shocked (ph).
PHILLIP: But, Arthur --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hang on a second, guys. Arthur, I got to call you out for that. Because that, first of all, that was a dodge, okay? And it was also incredibly -- I mean like he talked to a P.R. person who was like, this is what you have to say in order to not answer the question, correct. But, I mean, look --
AIDALA: He was saying how unreliable the source is.
PHILLIP: He did not answer the question. He could have easily have said, I did not take ketamine, I did not give drugs. And, in fact --
CHAMPION: (INAUDIBLE) struggle with depression.
PHILLIP: -- back in 2024, when he'd had that interview with our former colleague here, Don Lemon, on the Don Lemon Show. Don asked him about his drug use and he did answer the question then. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, HOST, THE DON LEMON SHOW: Do you feel like you ever abuse it?
MUSK: I don't think so. If used too much ketamine, you can't really get work done. So, I have a lot of work.
I don't really have like, you know, a situation where I can be not mentally acute for an extended period of time. Like I can't really get wasted with -- because I thank get my job.
LEMON: So, how often do you take it?
MUSK: Well, it's -- it'd be like it's a small amount once every other week or something like that.
There are several weeks will go by where I don't use it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHAMPION: He answered the question.
PHILLIP: I think there's also -- I think it's also just worth noting he, as a special government employee, he's also a government contractor. There are drug tests, drug rules about substance use and abuse in those roles. [22:10:04]
We don't even know if he was tested, if he was subject to those things. And I think that's the other part of this conversation, which is this one guy had so much power and there's very little in the way of checks and balances. AOC, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, she did an interview today with Rolling Stone. She, talking broadly about this issue, said, Americans see the extreme concentration of wealth. They recognize viscerally that it is untenable and, frankly, un-American, is how she describes the concentration of wealth in someone like Elon Musk and now the political power that he has in the government.
JENNINGS: Why is it un-American? It's un-American to be successful? It's un-American to be a great entrepreneur? It's un-American to start companies come on that do amazing things? It's un-American? It's un- American to be patriotic and get into politics and serve your -- what's un-American? I think it's un-American to say -- it's not American to say (INAUDIBLE).
QUINN: When you have someone, they've made a lot of money, God bless, right? They've made a lot of money.
PHILLIP: Have it.
QUINN: But he is in a position where he has been clearly trying to find huge cuts in the government, not waste, fraud and abuse, that all should come out, right, clearly, that has been targeted about $50 billion. He's looking for far more than that, and it's hard to not put two and two together and assign those huger cuts, particularly to Medicaid, to a desire to find the money, to fund tax cuts that will help people like him and other billionaires. That's un-American.
JENNINGS: Do you think he needed a tax could be comfortable in life?
QUINN: I think the president --
JENNINGS: I mean, honestly?
QUINN: I think the president wants to keep a big tax cut for billionaires. And he is a loyal guy to the president and went out to do that. Manipulating the government is un-American.
PHILLIP: Is Scott's point there that it is the wrong message for someone like AOC, maybe not surprising, but maybe the wrong political message to just point blank demonize wealthy people just because they're wealthy?
CHAMPION: I agree. We should not demonize wealthy people, but what I don't like is what you're trying to sell us, Scott. You're trying to tell us it's not a big deal that this man takes ketamine, and it is a big deal. And if you want to talk about The New York Times reporting and you want to say that it's not necessarily accurate with him dodging the question, so be it. But this man admitted that he takes ketamine.
If you think that he doesn't abuse it, so be it. This is the reporting. We are not denying the fact. If this was vice versa, Hunter Biden, to your point earlier, outrage. I want to hear how you feel about Hunter Biden and his drug use, the way he has been labeled, the way he has been talked about.
AIDALA: I feel bad for him. You want to know how I feel? I feel -- I'm very sympathetic for the guy because --
CHAMPION: So, what is that the right answer? Why is this man who is the first president's buddy, the first president's buddy --
(CROSSTALKS)
CHAMPION: And you trying to tell me that you haven't seen this man, friend, on -- friend. Friend.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: All right, friends, we're going to have to leave this one --
AIDALA: (INAUDIBLE) has a useful purpose. And he doesn't take it that way (ph).
PHILLIP: All right, my friends, we're going to have to leave this one here for just a moment.
Much more ahead, up next, there have been some iconic foot in mouth moments in politics from deplorables to read my lips. And tonight, a Republican senator may have just added to the list and given Democrats a layup. Back in a moment from the Food Network Studios.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, a Republican senator may have just accidentally cut an ad for Democrats to run for the next four years. In a heated town hall, Senator Joni Ernst was confronted by audience members over potential cuts to Medicaid and food stamps that are part of Trump's big, beautiful bill. And in the chaos, listen to her response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): When we are talking about the corrections in this reconciliation bill, again, it's corrections of overpayments and people that have not been eligible for these programs by law as it is currently written. So, when you are arguing, when you are arguing about illegals that are receiving Medicaid benefits, 1.4 million, 1.4 they're not, they are not eligible, so they will be coming off. So, no, people are not -- well, we all are going to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Yikes. That was --
AIDALA: I mean, it is true. You know, truth is the ultimate defense. PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, that's a problem. And her office tried to clean it up. They said that she was saying that there are only two certainties in life, death and taxes, and she's working to ease the burden of both. Nice try.
QUINN: She's sitting at home replaying that moment in her mind over and over again, and trying to find a magical way to get those words back. That was a totally clumsy and ill-advised thing to say, and it probably will end up somehow in ads. But the bigger issue is what is in this bill. The cuts to Medicaid, the cuts to food stamps, to SNAP programs, cuts that are really going to hurt senior citizens, disabled people, and low income Americans. That's the real story here.
Are there problems? Are there people who should be on who should be cut off offshore? But that's not the bulk of this. The bulk of this is going to cut to people who rely on this program to stay healthy and stay alive. And those cuts need to be prevented.
[22:20:00]
JENNINGS: Completely false.
QUINN: That is not completely false?
JENNINGS: The first 90 percent of her answer was great because she was explaining exactly what the Republicans are doing, illegals who are not eligible should come off, the work requirements. Look, I'm sorry, but if you're 30 years old and you're playing video games on grandma's couch and you don't want to get up and work, that's a problem for every taxpayer that has to get up and go to work every day. You need to go try to work.
If you need this program and you're trying, the program will be there for you. The purpose of the reform is to save it for the people who need it and are trying, not for the illegals, and the people who won't work, period. That is not true.
PHILLIP: It's kind of incomplete both what you said and what she said, because there are definitely people who are eligible for the program now who would have to meet new requirements, including mothers, people who have young children. They've lowered the age that you have to start working from having a minor child to someone who has a seven- year-old. So, let's say you have an eight-year-old at home, now you have to go work more hours as opposed to being available to take care of your child. People say it penalizes single moms.
My point is it's not the full picture. And I think that's part of the reason why the reaction was what it was in that room from her constituents.
CHAMPION: And they're speaking to everyone's constituents on both sides, right? And I just think of people like my grandmother who has Medicaid. She's 95 years old. And I think that some of these people get in these spaces and they get lost in the cracks. And what do you do about those people who genuinely need to do it? She's not illegal. She's been here her whole life -- (CROSSTALKS)
CHAMPION: But my point is that there are people who will be in that situation and they'll get lost --
JENNINGS: No. There won't be a single 95-year-old woman.
CHAMPION: That's not true.
JENNINGS: They're not putting 95-year-old --
CHAMPION: Scott.
QUINN: They may not be kicked off. So, they're going to have less --
CHAMPION: They're going to have less care. They're going to have less that they're already having. And you can't just yell, false, and say it's true because you're not false.
JENNINGS: You're out here scare mongering. 95-year-old grandmothers are not --
QUINN: The facts are scary.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on guys.
AIDALA: Speaker Christine Quinn led this city for 12 years with Mayor Bloomberg. And one of the greatest things you guys did was efficiency of city services. And you guys were known, you and Mayor Bloomberg, you were a dynamic duo, cutting so much of the fat, streamlining things while making sure her 95-year-old grandmother didn't get hurt. This is what we're trying to do. What Scott's talking about how people going to work, isn't that Bill Clinton-esque?
CHAMPION: False.
AIDALA: Isn't that work fair? Isn't that what Bill Clinton says?
QUINN: We never took away healthcare --
CHAMPION: False.
QUINN: -- from people who needed it. That's what's happening now.
AIDALA: But you disagree --
(CROSSTALKS)
CHAMPION: I'm talking about you.
(CROSSTALKS)
CHAMPION: You got it with my friend. You get it. PHILLIP: So -- okay. So, look, I think there's a dispute about what's more important in the bill, but, first of all, there's no question that there are people who are eligible today who will not be eligible in the future, if the bill passes the way that it is. And the question is now, I mean, can Democrats utilize this? Will they? Can they get their act together?
CHAMPION: I don't know.
PHILLIP: I mean, I think that's the question.
CHAMPION: Here's the thing. I also ultimately want to say this. The Democrats are -- there's so much on the table for them to run with, and they're not doing anything about it. They've been silent and it's so annoying. And we're sitting here and we're letting my friend yell at me and tell me --
AIDALA: You yell at Scott.
CHAMPION: This other friend yell me, friend. You know, my point is that there's so much information here that we could use to make this better for people who are not being actually represented. And it's all about whose side we're on, and so disappointing. At the end of the day.
JENNINGS: Democrats can't use this be because the beating heart of the Democratic Party right now is what can we do for illegal aliens? We want to keep them in the country. We don't want them deported. We got to give them healthcare. That is the reason for the Medicaid rage. It is the reason for all the rage. It is the beating heart of the party.
PHILLIP: I mean, I think that, politically, it's incredibly convenient for Republicans to say that this is all coming about undocumented immigrants.
CHAMPION: Exactly.
PHILLIP: But that's just the numbers do not bear that out at all.
JENNINGS: You don't meet the work requirements, you won't be eligible.
PHILLIP: I agree. Some of the people who will be affected are people who are immigrants, but a lot of people --
JENNINGS: Illegal immigrants.
PHILLIP: Okay, illegal, undocumented, whatever you want to call it.
JENNINGS: Yes.
PHILLIP: But many people who are not, those people will be affected too. And I think it's disingenuous to not admit that. If you're going to pass a bill that does this kind of thing, why not just admit it?
JENNINGS: I'm not against work requirements. I'm fully admitted. Work requirements are important requirements. Bill Clinton thought of it. It was a great idea then. It's a great idea.
CHAMPION: So, you're trying to say nobody will be lost in the cracks? You're just saying, only illegal -- are you saying only illegal immigrants will be the ones who are affected?
JENNINGS: The program is still going to grow.
CHAMPION: Scott, I'm asking you a question.
JENNINGS: No, (INAUDIBLE). If you follow the rules and you're not illegal, if you follow the work requirements, you'll not have a problem.
QUINN: And people will have -- and some people will stay on but have less access to life-saving and life-affirming services. Those are the facts.
CHAMPION: And that is a fact.
PHILLIP: All right, we got to leave that one there.
Coming up next, Donald Trump gives California an ultimatum, ban a trans athlete from the state final or lose federal funds.
[22:25:02]
Well, tonight, that athlete is competing, but there is a twist. We'll debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Welcome back. It's our summer Friday edition of the show and we are at the Food Network Kitchen in New York with friends of the program and a fantastic chef working hard behind the scenes to give us something to eat when we're done here, of course. We'll enjoy that in just a bit.
[22:30:14]
But first, tonight, there is uproar in the state of California at the finish line as a transgender high school student from California competes in the state's track and field championships. At the center of this debate is A.B. Hernandez who, just moments ago, placed first in the preliminary round of the girls' long jump competition and high jump to advance to tomorrow's finals.
But she hasn't been able to outpace the intense public backlash and questions over whether it is fair for trans athletes to compete in girls' sports.
Now this week, President Trump threatened to strip the state of federal funding over her participation. And since then, the governing body for California's high school sports changed the meet rules so that any biological female student athlete who would otherwise have earned a qualifying mark if not for the trans students is given an automatic entry into the finals. So, it's an effort there to try to address all sides of this issue.
The state's governor, Gavin Newsom, through a spokesperson described that as reasonable and a respectful way to navigate a complex issue without compromising competitive fairness.
However, Gavin Newsom, who may I remind you is a Democrat on his own podcast, not that long ago, he actually changed his long-standing position on trans athletes and said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE KIRK, FOUNDER, TURNING POINT USA: You right now should come out and be like, you know what? The young man who's about to win the state championship in the long jump in female sports.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): Right.
KIRK: That shouldn't happen. Would you say no men in female sports?
NEWSOM: Well, it's I think it's an issue of fairness. I completely agree with you on that. It is an issue of fairness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Christine, he's moved on this issue, but for, I mean, it seems for political reasons.
QUINN: Clearly for political reasons. Gavin Newsom is searching for an identity that he thinks will be sellable to run for president of The United States. And you know what? That's disgusting. If you want to have a position that I disagree with, let's have a conversation.
But to shop out your position, to put you in what you believe is a better position, no one is going to buy that. They're going to see it as raw politics and I have no respect for that at all. It's like it's Tuesday. What Gavin Newsom are we going to get?
AIDALA: But, Speaker Quinn, I don't disagree with what you just said, but isn't that kind of par for the course in the world of politics?
QUINN: I hope not.
AIDALA: Don't there, don't there of views evolve? I mean, I believe when President Obama ran for president of the United States, he was against gay marriage. And during his term of the presidency, --
PHILLIP: Fair.
AIDALA: -- he evolved and he was for it.
QUINN: Gavin Newsom has historically been one of the most significant allies of the LGBT community there had been. To do this kind of a shift isn't an evolution. There's a difference between an evolution, which I support. You can say that about a lot of people, Chuck Schumer, Hillary Clinton. This isn't that. This is a 180-degree flip clearly for political reasons. PHILLIP: I don't want to steal Scott's thunder here, but one of the reasons that Gavin Newsom may have switched is because of the polling on this issue. Twenty-five percent of Americans agree that trans women should be allowed to participate in female sports, but 75 --
QUINN: Yes.
PHILLIP: -- percent disagree. The politics, the public opinion on this is in a completely different place.
JENNINGS: I agree.
PHILLIP: And one more thing and I'll let you get in.
JENNINGS: Yes. Sure.
PHILLIP: But the accommodation that they announced in California seems to acknowledge a sense of unfairness --
QUINN: Yes.
PHILLIP: -- in the process.
JENNINGS: It's deeply unfair. And for all these parents that have little girls who work very hard in all these sports, whether it's track and field or the softball situation that's going on in Minnesota right now where they've got a team that's dominating the rest of the teams because they have a trans pitcher on the team.
If you're a parent of one of these little girls who worked their whole life to get to something like this only to be aced out at the end by a completely unfair competition, it must be deeply frustrating. And politicians have a responsibility, a, to listen to their people, but b, to take real stands and the true best real stand here, and it also happens to be very popular, is just to say it's fundamentally unfair, and it's deeply unfair to women. It's unfair to girls.
It's unfair to women in these sporting events who are being knocked off of podiums that have been happening for years. Trump took a strong stand on it, and a lot of people rallied around him, and it's because the American people agree.
CHAMPION: I just want to say this. And you know, my background is in sports. I just -- I'll start with that. I don't want to scare the people, as you said earlier. I don't want people to think that this is truly an epidemic, that young boys are competing in young women's sports and young girls' sports. These cases are few and far in between. They don't happen that often.
[23:34:58]
I agree that we need to understand what is happening and we need to get ahead of it. And oddly enough, I agree with you. Scott, oddly enough, I agree with you, which is --
(CROSSTALK) JENNINGS: Why is it odd?
CHAMPION: Because I don't normally --
JENNINGS: It's correct. What is it?
CHAMPION: I agree with you.
PHILLIP: Stop. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
CHAMPION: Let me finish.
PHILLIP: Let's let her finish.
CHAMPION: The science behind this hasn't been studied enough or talked about enough for us to make a real full opinion. I do agree girls' sports are for girls.
PHILLIP: Wait.
CHAMPION: I do -- hold on.
PHILLIP: She's (inaudible).
CHAMPION: Time out.
PHILLIP: Just give her a second to finish.
CHAMPION: friend.
PHILLIP: Just give just give her a second to finish.
CHAMPION: And my whole point is this, I don't want us to act like there are a ton of trans athletes trying to compete in little girls' sports, women's sports, girls' sports, whatever the case may be. That is not the case, and we know that.
It's minuscule. And what's going to happen is --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: But I didn't hear you say you believe that girls' sports should be for girls.
CHAMPION: I think I 100 --
PHILLIP: Biological girls.
CHAMPION: Biologically, I think there's an unfair advantage. They talk about the fairness issue. We go back and forth with, you know, Gavin Newsom. Who is he today? I agree. Perhaps he did evolve and he did change his mind, but public opinion, if you ask people in the quiet corners how they feel about it, they don't either want to discuss it or they understand that it is unfair. There is an unfair competitive edge, and that needs to be addressed. AIDALA: I want to stand up for the trans kids. Now what do you do?
Isn't this a good compromise where they think that you can't participate?
CHAMPION: I don't know.
AIDALA: You can't tell those kids, well, you know, now you're just can't participate.
CHAMPION: Arthur, we're not going to solve that in three minutes. What I'm saying is everybody can't just come to --
AIDALA: It is a good compromise.
CHAMPION: We don't know what a good compromise is.
PHILLIP: One other thing, I mean, just to Arthur's point, it bears repeating that we're talking about kids here.
QUINN: Yes.
PHILLIP: Okay? This is --
QUINN: Correct.
PHILLIP: A.B. Hernandez is a minor.
QUINN: A child.
PHILLIP: A child.
QUINN: And she's been screamed at by adults.
PHILLIP: Yes. She has been the subject, not just of intense scrutiny in her community.
QUINN: Yes.
PHILLIP: But the president of the United States --
QUINN: Right. That's true.
PHILLIP: -- is threatening one child.
CHAMPION: One child who is 16 years old.
PHILLIP: In the state of California.
CHAMPION: And it's not fair. So, you forget threatening --
PHILLIP: The school district over --
CHAMPION: A child.
PHILLIP: -- this one child. CHAMPION: And I don't think that people are intelligent enough to realize the humanity of a 16-year-old child being bullied and talked about and protested. Understand, you may not like the policy, but where's the humanity of it all?
AIDALA: I'm in your favor. I think she should be able to participate, but she shouldn't be able to knock someone off the podium. And California I'm sorry. I'll give you --
PHILLIP: Go ahead.
AIDALA: They should be complimented. They're trying to find a compromise letting the child participate, but not take the child that Scott referred to who's been training all her life to get thrown off the podium because someone who's biologically different and has an advantage, won. So, they're trying to figure it out.
QUINN: You know, there are, by reports from California, thousands of student athletes in California. That makes sense. There are documented single digit number of trans athletes.
CHAMPION: Yes.
QUINN: And this one particular athlete at not -- at the meet right before this one was screamed at by adults in the stands, booed, jeered, whatever you think.
CHAMPION: Threatened, all the things.
QUINN: We have to remember, these are children and that adults should be setting the tone. You want to debate this?
JENNINGS: I agree.
QUINN: Debate this. But don't yell at this point.
CHAMPION: Exactly, a child.
JENNINGS: I agree. I think adults should set the tone, and they should not put these kids in this situation. Unfortunately, you said this hasn't been studied enough to know that look, we've got millions of years of study. Men and women are different, and that's why it's unfair to put boys in girls' sports. We don't need any more biological studies.
PHILLIP: Scott, do you see --
JENNINGS: It is fundamentally unfair.
PHILLIP: Genuinely curious, any accommodations that are reasonable. You have a 16-year-old who wants to participate in sports. In your mind, is there any way that that can happen Yes. That is fair?
JENNINGS: Yes. Of course.
PHILLIP: How? JENNINGS: Have the people participate with their own biological sex. Boys and boys sports, girls and girls sports. It's worked for a very long time in this country.
CHAMPION: But it's not that simple anymore, Scott. That's where we are.
JENNINGS: Pretty simple that 80 percent of the country.
CHAMPION: So, what do you do with the 20 percent? Do we ignore them?
JENNINGS: Yes. Pretty much.
CHAMPION: Do we put --
JENNINGS: I mean, it's an 80-20 issue.
CHAMPION: Scott, everybody is in here now.
(CROSSTALK)
AIDALA: We are talking about (inaudible)
JENNINGS: This is a (inaudible) miniscule number.
CHAMPION: No. It's a miniscule number.
JENNINGS: If it's a minuscule why can't -- why do we have to opt in?
CHAMPION: We don't have to -- the reason why I said it was that a miniscule number, Scott, --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Millions of people for a handful.
CHAMPION: -- was because I don't think it's fair that you're scaring people at home --
PHILLIP: Yes.
CHAMPION: -- thinking that boys --
JENNINGS: I'm not scaring.
CHAMPION: -- are trying to compete in girls sport by the droves.
JENNINGS: They are.
CHAMPION: And that this is going to take over and you were scaring people at. It's just not happening, Scott. It's just not happening.
JENNINGS: This is like the most competitive track and field in the country.
(CROSSTALK) CHAMPION: It's just not happening. You're exaggerating.
PHILLIP: Christine, can I ask you --
CHAMPION: Stop. Stop.
PHILLIP: -- one final question before we go. I mean, for the Democratic Party, I mean, Gavin Newsom made this shift. I'm not even sure he really wanted to do it in that moment. He was sort of cornered into it. What should the Democratic Party's, position be on this issue that played a fairly key role in the last election and where public opinion is pretty lopsided?
QUINN: Yes. Look. On human and civil rights issues, you always have a period of time when people are not supporting wherever you're moving. Democrats, we shouldn't move away from positions we've long held, like support of my community, the LGBT community. We shouldn't run away from that. That's not why we lost.
[22:40:02]
We lost because we weren't strong enough fighters, because we didn't have a message that was compelling to middle class Americans who were feeling a squeeze every day. We need to stand up and articulate a message about how we're going to make people's lives better.
AIDALA: Yes.
QUINN: And we're not going to do that in a way that's believable if we run away and abandon communities that we've stood with for decades.
CHAMPION: Just make that or just be honest about what you feel.
QUINN: Yes.
CHAMPION: Say what it is. Make it plain. If you don't think it, then say I don't want it.
PHILLIP: Yes.
QUINN: Yes.
PHILLIP: There's an authenticity issue.
QUINN: Absolutely. Absolutely.
CHAMPION: That's a -- there's no one being honest about it.
PHILLIP: All right, everybody. Coming up next, Joe Biden gives his first public remarks since his diagnosis and proceeds to say that he could beat up journalists and could have beaten any liberal challengers. We'll discuss that. That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Tonight, Joe Biden is speaking out for the first time since he announced his prostate cancer diagnosis. The 82-year-old said that he has no regrets as he revealed why he thinks Democrats didn't step up to challenge him in 2024.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: There are some Democrats who are now questioning whether you should have run for reelection in the first place.
JOE BIDEN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Why didn't they run against me then? Because I'd have beaten them.
UNKNOWN: Do you have any regrets?
BIDEN: No. I don't have any regrets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Well, they didn't run against him also because it was strongly discouraged by the Democratic Party. They even changed the primary order in order to make it harder. So, there's that, Cari.
CHAMPION: You know what, every time I see him talk now, it's just so sad. All of it is sad.
PHILLIP: Yes.
CHAMPION: And it's also disappointing that there was such a cover up, and we already talked about that. It is so -- why are you laughing?
AIDALA: Scott is losing his mind. I'm looking at here over his shoulder. He is losing his mind.
CHAMPION: Isn't he all?
JENNINGS: I'm for it.
CHAMPION: You can -- no. He's losing me sadly.
AIDALA: I can say --
CHAMPION: Sadly.
AIDALA: I'm not going to say not smile. He's going to say, really? Because nobody was saying that nine months ago, everyone's saying how short Joe Biden, he should be there for another four years.
CHAMPION: That's the reality is that is sad, and we all know it's sad. And we were hoping for something better.
PHILLIP: Joe Biden, I mean, his position is that he would have beaten anybody who ran.
CHAMPION: He's -- I want him to stop talking.
JENNINGS: Then why was the Democratic Party (inaudible) every single Democrat out of the race? Why were they changing the rules? Like, why didn't they allow a primary to occur? Now, when you have the White House, that's what you do. You try to prop up the incumbent, but --
CHAMPION: Because it's politics statute. You know how politics work. Right?
JENNINGS: But the best thing he said today was when he threatened to fight.
PHILLIP: Okay. Okay. Well, let me -- hold on. Let me play.
JENNINGS: I watch Joe Biden fight Jake Tapper for charity. I'm going to throw it out. Biden v. Tapper.
PHILLIP: Wait.
JENNINGS: Live on CNN. I don't know if we have enough room in here, but I would -- I'm just saying --
PHILLIP: Let me play the play for those who have not seen what Scott is talking about. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: There's also been a lot of discussion recently about your mental and physical capabilities while you were in office.
BIDEN: You can see that. I'm mentally incompetent, and I can't walk, and I can beat the hell out of both of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHAMPION: Boy. This is so unfair.
JENNINGS: See.
CHAMPION: It's all unfair. Whoever is asking him these questions are unfair. It's all ridiculous. It's all ridiculous.
PHILLIP: It's ridiculous. Christine is trying not to talk about that.
CHAMPION: Because she said too, she's like, I don't want you to ask him any more questions. We get it. He's not right. We get it.
QUINN: And pivoting to violence?
CHAMPION: Yes.
QUINN: She's like, no. Never a way to go.
CHAMPION: Yes.
QUINN: Let's stop.
PHILLIP: The pivot to violence is definitely --
(CROSSTALK) AIDALA: If you want to be serious, Abby, it's his family who should have protected him. If he is declining mentally, if he is vulnerable, it's your wife, it's your sister, it's your son.
CHAMPION: Well, how we don't know.
AIDALA: Who were supposed to say nine months ago, like --
CHAMPION: By the way, we don't know that he didn't try that. We don't know that --
AIDALA: It didn't seem that way.
CHAMPION: He might be threatening violence in the House.
AIDALA: It's clearly. Yes.
CHAMPION: We don't know what he was doing.
AIDALA: It didn't seem like they were protecting him.
PHILLIP: I don't think there's been any reporting that suggested, to your question, that anybody around him said, hey, Mr. President, maybe you should reconsider this.
CHAMPION: No.
PHILLIP: Maybe you should think about stepping aside. That's --
JENNINGS: Yes.
PHILLIP: That is actually amazing in a way because at least the idea that there would be a conversation is what I think put people expected. But it sounds like there wasn't a conversation.
CHAMPION: But it doesn't sound unusual. You ever hang around someone who's super famous and they have an ego this big, and no one tells them that they're ridiculous?
QUINN: That's true. That's true.
CHAMPION: I'm not referring to you, I'm just looking at you.
JENNINGS: I agree that I am super famous.
CHAMPION: Yes. There are people who feed the ego and they're -- and they just want to be in the in crowd and they're protecting their jobs. They're protecting their self-interest. We're seeing that right now play out in the (inaudible).
AIDALA: That's why I'm saying that his wife and his sister, his blood should have been protected.
PHILLIP: I don't know if they -- Christine.
QUINN: Why there wasn't, I mean, I don't understand that. I agree with that. Like why there wasn't, and it appears there were. We don't know for sure, but it appears there were no conversations where the loved ones sat down and said, let's really think about this.
JENNINGS: To the contrary.
QUINN: And right.
JENNINGS: The conversations were keep going.
QUINN: The reports are to the contrary and that is so sad that the people who love him most couldn't have really seen kind of around the corner.
CHAMPION: Yes.
QUINN: At how dangerous this was for him.
CHAMPION: Yes.
QUINN: Their first responsibility, him, and it's just terrible. It ends this way.
PHILLIP: You can see there.
AIDALA: Very, very well said.
PHILLIP: You can see in these clips that we've just played that President Biden still in this moment, he has a deep belief that he is the only one.
CHAMPION: Yes.
PHILLIP: Who could have beaten Trump.
CHAMPION: Yes.
QUINN: Yes.
[22:50:01]
PHILLIP: That he would have beaten everybody else in the field.
QUINN: Yes.
PHILLIP: And it is hard to shake that.
CHAMPION: Yes.
PHILLIP: I mean, the family could have tried, but clearly the principle was ironclad in that belief.
JENNINGS: Now question, is he wanting to fight Tapper and Alex Thompson at the same time or, like, one at a time? Because I think that's a different match.
CHAMPION: Why? JENNINGS: And I think this is not --
CHAMPION: Why?
PHILLIP: This is not --
CHAMPION: I don't know.
JENNINGS: It might be harder for him to win that. I would like to follow-up.
PHILLIP: We are not going to -- we're not going to game out.
CHAMPION: I'm not going to ask him.
PHILLIP: We're not going to game out that YouTube video on their show tonight. Okay. Up next, the panel is going to give us their nightcaps inspired by the Food Network's executive chef, Ginevra, who is coming over right now with some very real nightcaps for us.
GINEVRA IVERSON, EXECUTIVE CHEF, FOOD NETWORK: Whenever I be riding, sign up.
AIDALA: Ladies first. ladies first.
CHAMPION: We're in the Pacific Northwest.
PHILLIP: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.
[22:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: We're back. The Food Network's Kitchen's executive chef, Ginevra Iverson, is here with some spectacular plates for us. So, chef, tell us what you have for us.
IVERSON: So, we have summer in a bowl right here. This is, a little bit of eggplant that's roasted until it's nice and smoky, some fresh ricotta, and some tomatoes that are cooked with basil and garlic.
AIDALA: They need to rig up there. Right? Fresh and rig up.
IVERSON: Local North (inaudible) Romano.
PHILLIP: This is good. So, while you guys do your night caps, I'm going to eat.
QUINN: Okay.
PHILLIP: So, chef, tell us what is your favorite food?
IVERSON: My favorite meal is, my mom's ossobuco. So that is I will cook forever and always be number one, but my second favorite is anything anyone else is cooking me.
AIDALA: Great.
PHILLIP: Okay.
IVERSON: Yes.
PHILLIP: So, what is the -- tell us a little bit more about this dish.
IVERSON: The ossobuco. It's a traditional Italian dish. It's veal shanks that are braised, and then, so they're really tender, and they have the bone in it. So, you eat the bone marrow and the tender veal, and then it has a gremolata of parsley, garlic, and lemon zest all over it.
PHILLIP: I guess I can see.
IVERSON: It's a birthday. It was my birthday.
PHILLIP: I can see why you ended up in the kitchen.
IVERSON: Yes.
PHILLIP: That makes a lot of sense. Scott, what is your favorite home cooked meal, please?
JENNINGS: My favorite is to go out to the Jennings chicken coop, grab three eggs from out underneath the chickens and bring it in, make an omelet. We make all kinds of different omelets. I'd love to bring Jennings eggs from Prospect Kentucky to the chef here and see what she can do with it. But my absolute favorite thing in the world, omelets fresh out of the coop.
PHILLIP: But what kind of omelet are we talking?
JENNINGS: I know.
PHILLIP: What's the -- what's in the omelet.
JENNINGS: We make tons of different kinds of omelets, but I like to keep it a little simple. A little bit of ham, a little bit of cheese, a little bit of tomato, and occasionally a little bit of spinach. Good to go.
PHILLIP: Okay. Yes. I'm feeling it.
CHAMPION: You know, I made I had something so simple. Like, I grew up and we used to make really simple quick meals. I had a working mom, so we always had really simple quick meals. But when she did take time on a Sunday and make a meal, it would be shepherd's pie. It would be my favorite thing.
PHILLIP: I love shepherd's pie.
CHAMPION: So, it's like you could do it with ground beef, one layer of ground beef, we can do ground turkey. She would do mashed potatoes. She would do vegetable of some sort. Maybe it'd be peas, and then a little more mashed potato at the top with a little cheese. Just amazing. And you could eat it, like, for a couple of days, and it was always better once the flavor set in. Very well-seasoned.
PHILLIP: Yes, the next day.
CHAMPION: Yes.
PHILLIP: We are -- we're a big shepherd's pie family.
CHAMPION: Really?
PHILLIP: Yes.
CHAMPION: I love it.
PHILLIP: Like every holiday, Christmas, Thanksgiving.
CHAMPION: It's all the things you eat.
PHILLIP: Yes. It's like the ultimate comfort food.
CHAMPION: It is.
PHILLIP: I love it. It is my favorite thing.
QUINN: Although shepherd's pie is a good kind of an Irish thing.
AIDALA: It's an Irish thing.
IVERSON: True. Yes.
QUINN: We Irish are not known for our food, but I'm lucky enough to be married to an Italian. And my favorite is her chicken parm.
PHILLIP: Yes.
QUINN: I love it.
AIDALA: Actually, a comfort food.
PHILLIP: Yes.
QUINN: Exactly. Exactly.
CHAMPION: What kind of pasta do you put in it? Or do you just do it as chicken parm by itself? You do it with pasta?
QUINN: Just chicken parm by itself.
AIDALA: Low carb. It's a low carb.
PHILLIP: No. We're not. We're not doing low carb chicken parm.
AIDALA: So, I am blessed. My wife, Mary Anne's mom and dad, Nanette, and Jerry Bethune (Ph). Geraldo in the backyard grows the eggplants. And this is in the summertime. And my mother-in-law, Nanette, we call her Nanabellu (Ph). She uses this exact pasta, the Mezzi Rigatoni. And then my father-in-law has the fresh tomatoes. So, they're picking the fresh tomatoes. They cut them up.
She boils them, peels them, does this whole thing. And it's so simple, Abby. It's just pasta with her tomatoes with a couple pieces of basil from the garden. And then she cuts up the eggplant, puts a little salt on them, right, to get the water out of them, lightly fries them so you have the pasta with the fresh tomatoes, the fresh basil. The eggplant on the side is Pasta alla Norma. It's a very Italian dish.
IVERSON: Delicious.
AIDALA: With a little Roboto salad on the top.
CHAMPION: You sure?
AIDALA: It'll be. (inaudible)
PHILLIP: That sounds so good. It actually this meal tonight is like an ode to his favorite meal. Yes.
IVERSON: Our southern version of --
PHILLIP: Yes.
IVERSON: -- Pasta alla Norma. Well, coincidentally.
PHILLIP: Okay.
IVERSON: So, He didn't plan it.
PHILLIP: Yes. That's, okay. That's perfect. So, my family is from the Caribbean, so we eat stew chicken. Okay? I love, you know, oxtail as well. Stew oxtail, I'm not from Jamaica, but we do eat oxtail in Trinidad too. But stew chicken is like my ultimate home cooked comfort food.
When I go home, my mom and my dad, they fight over the recipe in the kitchen, but they make it and it's delicious and we love it. So, anyway, here's more home cooked meals.
AIDALA: Yey. Friday night.
PHILLIP: My friends. My friends, chef Ginevra, thanks for cooking for us.
[23:00:06]
IVERSON: Thanks for coming. Thanks for being here.
PHILLIP: And to our friends of the show, thanks for being here. Thank you everyone for watching. And to the Food Network for letting us crash for a night. Thanks for watching Newsnight.
We will see you tomorrow morning at 10 a.m. with our conversation show Table for Dive. Don't miss it, and you can also catch me anytime on your favorite social media platforms X, Instagram, and TikTok. Laura Coates Live starts right now. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
