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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump and Musk Go to War as Feud Explodes, Turns Personal; GOP Lawmakers Take Sides as Trump and Musk Feud Explodes; Bannon Predicts Democrats Will Try to Turn Musk. "NewsNight" Discusses Healthcare For Undocumented People in the U.S.; Trump Agenda Receives More Billionaire Backlash. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired June 05, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, hell hath fury like heavyweight scorned.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I'm very disappointed in Elon. I've helped Elon a lot.
PHILLIP: The divorce begins as Donald Trump threatens alimony, and Elon Musk wants custody of voters.
Plus, from Epstein to electoral prowess, the extraordinary battle crosses the Rubicon with MAGA forced to take sides.
Also, as Musk does his best to bury Trump's agenda, another Republican billionaire grabs a shovel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The United States' fiscal house is not order.
PHILLIP: And --
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think Trumpism lasts beyond this term?
GEORGE CLOONEY, ACTOR AND PRODUCER: I don't think so.
PHILLIP: -- George Clooney gets real about the State of America.
Live at the table, Bakari Sellers, Scott Jennings, Kat Abughazaleh, Jim Schultz and Darrell Hammond.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York. Let's get right to what America is talking about. Donald Trump says that he's trying to end wars, but, wow, he sure is embroiled in one right now with his ex. It is hard to overstate how extraordinary this public feud has played out over the last few hours between the world's most powerful man and the world's richest.
So, we're going to illustrate this using memes and GIFs, which Musk's platform made famous. But before we do that, just remember this. Musk is livid over the cost of Trump's bill. He has been trashing it all week, but refrained from attacking Trump personally. That was until around noon today when Trump called Musk out from inside the Oval office.
Musk then claimed that Trump and Republicans would've lost the election if not for him. Musk says Trump should be impeached, replaced by J.D. Vance. Musk says the reason the administration hasn't released the Epstein files is because Trump is in them. Musk says that Trump's tariffs will cause a recession. Musk calls Trump a liar over claims about electric cars. He also warned that Republicans will die -- that Trump will die first, and he's got a number another 40 years of life ahead. Musk used his own words against him about the debt.
Trump claims that he fired Musk even though his special status ended. Trump said Musk was wearing thin inside the White House. Trump threatened to kill all of Musk's government contracts. And that led Musk to say that he's decommissioning his spacecraft that takes crew and cargo to the International Space Station.
So what happens next? Well, who knows? But today's posts personally cost Elon Musk $34 billion, that is billion with a B, as Tesla lost $150 billion in value. Now, as for Trump, he's got a bill and an agenda that is now in serious jeopardy.
Man, these men too emotional these days to lead, apparently. It's kind of scary.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Abby --
PHILLIP: Is that a bag for you to breathe into?
JENNINGS: No, this is what -- I'll be pouring this in my news night mug tonight.
PHILLIP: Oh Lord.
JENNINGS: Pepto Bismol is what we all need here in the Republican Party.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I thought it was some Jack Daniels.
JENNINGS: We're beyond.
PHILLIP: They might need that too.
JENNINGS: I'm just -- first of all, I just want to -- I know that we have our differences here sometimes, but if you could just give -- if you could give me a little dispensation for the next hour and not beat me to death.
This is -- look, here's the deal. The goal --
PHILLIP: Well, you know, you don't have to -- you know, you don't have to defend either of these men. You could just tell us --
JENNINGS: I'm not, and here's the problem.
PHILLIP: -- what you think really about that.
JENNINGS: Here's the problem. They both have a point. Trump's agenda is in the bill and he wants to pass it. That's his point. Musk is not wrong about the national debt and he deeply cares about this, and that's his point. So, their goals are not mutually exclusive, which is I think the rub. And for all these Republicans out here who, like me, have really enjoyed this coalition, this partnership, I mean, I firmly believe that the relationship and the partnership they formed last year saved America and put us on a path to saving western civilization.
[22:05:05]
And now this puts that in jeopardy. And so it's not just about the daily policy quibbles, it's about the larger cultural things are at play.
So, I'm going to have some of this tonight, and I hope for better days and better skies tomorrow because I still love them both. And I hate it when mom and dad are fighting.
PHILLIP: Go ahead and take a sip.
Bakari, I mean, Elon Musk is calling in his favors.
SELLERS: Yes. I mean, I --
PHILLIP: He spent $250 million on Donald Trump, and he is saying, I own you.
SELLERS: He spent about 300 million. And, you know, I think Scott did the best job you can possibly do of kind of getting yourself in this pretzel and figuring out the relationship between Donald Trump and Elon Musk. Both of them, they just went for broke. I mean, this was Drake and Kendrick. I mean, that is what it was. It was --
JENNINGS: Who?
SELLERS: Drake is a rapper from Toronto and Kendrick Lamar is from -- and they had a beef. We'll talk about it on the commercial.
So, I mean, it was that type of, we are going to go for broke. We're going to go at each other's throats. We're going to talk about the Epstein files. We're going to cut your subsidies. But I also don't want Democrats to get too excited. I mean, I think that you see people online and you see people on social media that are like saying, oh my God, this is the end of Donald Trump. This is the same person whose father was sued because he didn't rent to black folk. This is the same person who stiffed contractors. This is the same person who has five kids by three baby mamas. This is the same person, and the list goes on and on and on. Donald Trump has control over his base.
Elon Musk is going to learn that the extent of his power is not what he thinks it is. Donald Trump wins this battle versus Elon Musk. This is just reality T.V. and I think people need to get over it.
PHILLIP: Well, I mean, he dropped some nuclear bombs today. He accused him of being in the Epstein files. He said that J.D. Vance should take over. Trump should be impeached and J.D. Vance should take over. I mean, Elon is going for broke here.
JIM SCHULTZ, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: So, if Elon -- if Donald Trump were, if the president was in the Epstein files, I think we can all agree they probably would've come out there in the Biden administration.
SELLERS: No, but you do realize he's in the Epstein files.
SCHULTZ: Well, in a way that Elon Musk is characterizing it, right?
SELLERS: No, but he's -- no, he said -- but you do realize he's in the Epstein files.
SCHULTZ: He's thrown a guy out of Mar-a-Lago, like years ago through the --
SELLERS: But can you say that, yes, Donald Trump had a relationship --
SCHULTZ: I haven't seen the Epstein files.
SELLERS: But you know the logs. I've seen the logs. You know, he's on the logs.
SCHULTZ: Might be on the logs, but --
PHILLIP: Well, the broader issue is that conservative have been --
SELLERS: Who cares?
PHILLIP: The reason Elon went there is because he knows the conservatives are pissed about this and want them released. And he's saying this is the reason that they have not been released, even though Trump promised it.
SCHULTZ: I don't buy it. I don't buy it. I think if there was something material in there that related to the president, I think Joe Biden would've released in the last administration. But we'll see. Maybe they'll come out and we'll find out. I don't know. I don't think any of us know.
SELLERS: We do have the logs. SCHULTZ: Well, you don't know what's in it.
SELLERS: No. We know the logs.
SCHULTS: But we don't know what's in it.
SELLERS: What are you talking about?
(CROSSTALKS)
SCHULTZ: Let's talk a little bit about pork.
SELLERS: What you just said is not factually accurate.
JENNINGS: You two argue about logs, by the way, is like the weirdest thing I've ever heard in my entire life. Can we just move on?
SCHULTZ: Yes, we're just moving on. So, I firmly believed that if there was something to tell no matter, it would've come out.
PHILLIP: Go ahead and finish.
SCHULTZ: Let's talk a little bit about pork, right. Elon Musk talks about the pork in this bill. Until it comes to the pork, the Elon Musk cares about the E.V. subsidies, right? So, there's a lot going on here. The E.V. subsidies, his guy didn't end up running NASA. There's a lot of bad blood here. And I think a lot of this is just petty fighting. I think you're right. It's a lot of drama, a lot of petty fighting, but I think he's up upset because he's not really getting what he wants.
He can talk all he wants about the pork in the bill and how it's going to increase the debt and all of those fun things. But at the end of the day, if it were the E.V. sitting in there, what would his -- if the E.V. subsidies hadn't been taken out that the Biden administration put in, what reaction would he have to that?
PHILLIP: It is a good question. I think there are legitimate, a lot of facets to it. But let me -- speaking of that, okay, the government being so embroiled in Elon Musk's businesses, here's what Steve Bannon, a Trump ally, had to say. And Steve Bannon and Elon Musk do not get along, just in case you weren't aware of that. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, HOST, STEVE BANNON'S WAR ROOM: Don't give me the entrepreneur stuff. Everything he's associated with is a government contract. You pull the government contracts and we'll see how tough this guy is, and that's what should be done right now.
The acts that President Trump should be taking immediately, I think when he threatens to take one of the big programs out of SpaceX, President Trump tonight should sign an executive order calling for the Defense Production Act to be caught in SpaceX and seize SpaceX tonight, before midnight. The U.S. government should seize it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Just pour the gasoline on.
PHILLIP: I mean, it would be funny if it weren't something that, I mean, in this world, Trump would consider perhaps.
KAT ABUGHAZALEH (D), ILLINOIS CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Right. And I think what we've seen tonight is that neither of these men are rational actors. This is a bunch of very petty fighting, except the stakes are a lot higher than some middle school argument.
[22:10:04]
Elon Musk has essentially held the country hostage, forced American taxpayers to be his employees against their will, except just like his normal employees, they also can't unionize.
And it's just watching this complete meltdown of the most powerful and the richest man in the world over Twitter and Truth Social and sub- tweeting, and accusing each other of all these things, it's just unbelievably immature. We have babies at the highest level of government.
PHILLIP: I do think -- I mean, it is a good question. Like, honestly, if there were women doing this --
ABUGHAZALEH: We'd be hysterical.
PHILLIP: -- what would be being said about this back and forth, for real?
ABUGHAZALEH: Yes.
DARRELL HAMMOND, ANNOUNCER AND FORMER CAST MEMBER, SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE: It'd be a sitcom.
PHILLIP: a terrible one.
HAMMOND: Yes.
SELLERS: But it's not just a -- I mean, we've gone through this. I mean, look, the scandal Fox News covered Barack Obama's selfie stick and tan suit to exhaustion. But here we have the richest man in the world, who actually was able to rummage through just the most important files that we have in federal government access to whatever he wanted.
We're talking about -- I mean, Steve Bannon brought up a good point. Elon Musk has a security clearance right now. Not only that, but he has government contracts and subsidies. I mean, we're talking about someone who has unfettered access to our American government bickering with the president of the United States, and a lot of people are laughing about it.
And, yes, I just think that American -- the American people get caught in between. And the biggest problem I have, which is why I'm a Debbie Downer right now, and not just pouring fire on this, is Democrats aren't suited for this moment. And we are not in a position. I mean, we're not even -- you're not going to even run a clip from Hakeem Jeffries. You're not going to run a clip from Chuck Schumer tonight.
PHILLIP: I mean, we will talk in one of the segments to come --
SELLERS: I need to start reading my briefs.
PHILLIP: -- about what Democrats should do next. But, I mean, to your point, shouldn't they just sit back and just let the chaos unfold?
ABUGHAZALEH: Can I hop in here?
SELLERS: Yes, please.
PHILLIP: I mean, Darrell -- yes.
HAMMOND: Go ahead.
ABUGHAZALEH: I mean, I'm not sure if you all saw that headline about Democrats maybe seeing Elon Musk as an ally, and he obviously isn't one. He's abused all of us. He has used our government to make himself richer and have unfettered access to our most sensitive records. And he's not an ally to anyone and certainly not to Democrats.
PHILLIP: But do you think, Darrell, that Elon could -- maybe this is not the end of Trump, but could he actually kill this bill?
HAMMOND: Could who?
PHILLIP: Elon. Well, I mean, if you've got that much money I was going to ask that question myself. I mean, can he destroy Trump? Does he have that power with that much money? I mean, like I don't know if you've ever been to couples counseling, anybody?
PHILLIP: No comment.
SELLERS: That's what my wife is watching. So, please tell me where you're going with this.
HAMMOND: So, they teach you how to fight. They teach you how to express your anger with one another in a way that's not destructive. You don't take the gloves off, right? You don't use live ammo with your mate. Or you might say something you can't walk back. How do you walk back Epstein files?
PHILLIP: So, you've -- I mean, you've also impersonated Trump.
HAMMOND: Right.
PHILLIP: Get in his head for a second. I mean, where does he go next now that he's been accused of being in the Epstein files, he's had all these things said about him. Elon is calling his bluff.
HAMMOND: He's very characteristic to me because he's a real street fighter. I mean, he really comes at you hard when you cross him. PHILLIP: Do you think he's coming at Elon hard? I mean, that's been one of the interesting mysteries of this.
HAMMOND: No.
PHILLIP: Yes.
HAMMOND: But he doesn't --
PHILLIP: Why do you think that is that, Scott?
JENNINGS: Well, the president has more at stake here than just the feud that is emerging today. What he has at stake is his entire agenda, everything he ran on, making the tax cuts permanent, welfare reform, border security, this is his agenda. This is how he won the election. And his control over the party and his influence over Republicans, I don't think is going to be dinged by this feud, but losing focus on the agenda and putting focus on the feud, I think would be a strategic mistake.
And so he's basically got between now and, you know, the end of July before they break for the August recess to complete the agenda. There will be substantial changes in the Senate. I don't know what it will all look like, but at some point, in order to get the last couple of votes over the line, it will require an ultra focused Trump to get the last couple of Republicans on it. And if he's fighting with Elon and not worrying about the details of the agenda, it'll be harder.
PHILLIP: All right, we're going to continue this conversation in just a few minutes. But coming up next for us, as Republicans may be forced to take a side, Elon Musk gives them a cryptic reminder that Donald Trump is going to die first and Musk and his money will be around for a lot longer.
Plus, another MAGA billionaire is echoing Musk's sounding off the alarm on what Trump is doing to the economy.
[22:15:01]
We'll debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: As the world's most powerful man in the world's richest duke could out on social media, MAGA is being forced to take sides and the divorce isn't looking too pretty. Here's how lawmakers reacted today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TROY NEHLS (R-TX): Right now, this tit-for-tat going back and forth isn't healthy.
I'll tell you what, Elon, this is what I'll do. Come down to Texas 22nd District, right? I'll pay your filing fee and run against me.
REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): I trust the math from the guy that lands rockets backwards over the politicians.
[22:20:00]
REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): I'd go with Trump politically. You know, two biggest dogs in the pound. They're going to turn on each other eventually, and that's what's happened.
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): It's easy to be the parent that says, you know, we're going to go to Disney World. It's hard to be the parent that says, yes, but we can't afford it.
REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): I think maybe they should count to ten.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Maybe they should count to ten, honestly. But it also seems that these Republicans, including those very ones there, many of them have a, you know, billion dollar check hanging over them, so to speak. Steve Bannon warned of that this is what's going to happen if Elon really is out of the tent and out in the cold. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BANNON: As sure as the turning of the Earth, if those progressives rub up on him and say, hey, they're never going to buy the Teslas, where are they going to buy the Teslas, they rub up on him, he'll write a $500 million check for Hakeem Jeffries. He'll be across the thing looking to impeach President Trump, looking to help steal the '28 election, look into imprison President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Incidentally, Kat, this is why Bannon wants him deported, not just kicked out of the Republican Party. Bannon is like, get him out of the country.
HAMMOND: He wants him deported?
PHILLIP: He's worried about this.
ABUGHAZALEH: Elon Musk is not an ally to Democrats and any Democrat who thinks he is. He not only sued my former employer for reporting in multiple countries, he deposed me in Chicago. He flew his lawyers to Chicago to depose me for mean tweets, a 25-year-old with less than $10,000 in her bank account, because he has such thin skin and he hates when his power is questioned in any way. He is not an ally to anyone but himself.
JENNINGS: Well, how mean were they?
ABUGHAZALEH: Huh?
JENNNINGS: I mean, pretty mean?
ABUGHAZALEH: No. SELLERS: Fundamentally, like I hear you and I empathize to an extent, but I also disagree with you. And the reason I disagree with you is because one of the things Democrats have done over the past two, three, four, five, six years is we have not practiced basic politics, which is that I believe politics is about addition and multiplication. And a lot of people believe politics is about division and subtraction.
And while I don't agree with much of anything Elon Musk does, if Elon Musk is going to make sure that we keep 10 million people from getting kicked off of insurance, then I'm going to take him in this fight.
PHILLIP: Wait, hold up. Hold up.
ABUGHAZALEH: Wait. I'm sorry --
PHILLIP: You're saying that you as a Democrat --
SELLERS: Would take him in the fight to kill the big beautiful bill.
PHILLIP: The Elon Musk -- no, I'm saying like if he came coming back and said, Democrats, Hakeem Jeffries, here's $500 million --
SELLERS: No, that's not what I'm talking about.
PHILLIP: -- I'll spend it for you. You're just saying in this particular moment?
SELLERS: In this fight, yes. In this -- I mean we live in a time, in politics of moment. I'm like in this particular moment where we had a bad piece of legislation, am I going to take Elon Musk to help me kill this so that people keep insurance? The answer's hell, yes, and twice on Sundays.
PHILLIP: But what about Elon Musk to spend money on behalf of Democrats in a midterm election? What about that?
SELLERS: Well, I'm worried -- first of all, I'm worried about New Jersey and I'm worried about Virginia. So, I'm very focused on 2025 before I get to 2026.
PHILLIP: Okay.
SELLERS: And to your point, there are a lot of things about Elon Musk that --
JENNINGS: But would you take his money? Just answer it.
SELLERS: No.
JENNINGS: Would you take his money?
SELLERS: I would not.
JENNINGS: Would you advise a Congressional candidate to take a contribution from Elon? JENNINGS: No.
ABUGHAZALEH: I'm not taking money from a guy who does a Hitler salute. It's just that simple.
SCHULTZ: I think you're going to find Democrats that are more than willing to take that.
SELLERS: Yes, but that's true. That's not. The question was --
(CROSSTALKS)
SELLERS: The question was about me. And Elon Musk and I, we just have a very different view on the world. I mean, Elon Musk, for example, the way that he views apartheid South Africa, the way that he views white supremacy and patriarchy are just a totally different way that I view the world.
So the question is, will I take his money? No. But if he's going to beat you guys in a submission over the big, beautiful bill and get you guys turned in pretzels, am I going to take his pressure on the site that he owns? Definitely.
SCHULTZ: I mean, I don't think you have to encourage that pressure. I think it's coming. Scott, bottoms up.
PHILLIP: So, you think that Elon is poised to turn on Republicans?
SCHULTZ: Well, I think it's too early to say, but what I do think is today the president looked at it as a win, right, $34 billion win against Elon Musk. If he continues to have those kinds of wins, it'll be less interesting to hit back, hit back, hit back all the time, and we'll see how much continuing continual poking of the bear we have from Elon Musk.
I don't think it's going away anytime soon, but I think he's going to continue to rail on this bill. I don't think that's ever going to change. I don't think it changes hearts and minds in the Senate. I don't think it changes hearts and minds in the House.
JENNINGS: They have to pass the bill. To me, the question is the next fight, which is will the Congressional Republican leadership, whenever they're finished with the president's agenda, immediately move on to the things that Elon actually cares about. I mean, he does have a deeply held view about the existential threat posed by the amount of debt that we have in the way we spend money.
And so that's kind of what I'm interested in next. After they finish the president's agenda, is there an immediate movement by Speaker Johnson and Leader Thune to begin to address what he wants to do, which is drastically make changes.
[22:25:03]
I mean, that's -- SELLERS: I think that's presumptuous though, Scott, because I do think that we've -- and we talked about this a minute ago, in, and just.
To address what he wants to do, which is drastically, that's make changes. I mean, that, I think that's presumptuous though, Scott. Because I do think that we've, and we talked about this a minute ago, kind of in just -- in quiet conversation. But I do believe that this is eerily reminiscent of 2017.
And, you know, Republicans don't legislate worth a damn, period. You just cannot. You just have never proved yourself to be able to legislate. 2017, you were coming in, everybody ran on repeal and replace Obamacare, right, repeal and replace it. You couldn't repeal and replace it if you tried. That was the first piece of legislation that Donald Trump tried to pass. And we remember the epic John McCain thumbs down.
So, we've kind of been here before. We've seen it. We've seen these. Donald Trump, when he is done with being president of the United States, will never be remembered for being able to be a legislative policy-driven president?
JENNINGS: Well, we did do the tax cuts in 2017.
PHILLIP: Well, Donald Trump is not going to be president in 3.5 years, which Elon pointed out today on social media. And it kind of came across a little bit like a threat. Trump past 3.5 years as president, I'll be around for 40-plus years. It is a warning to Republicans that he has, you know, F you money. He really can do whatever he wants and he can do it for as long as he wants, frankly.
HAMMOND: Yes. And he is starting to persuade. He's introducing like a thought enterprise, like just keep that in the back of your mind, guys.
PHILLIP: Right, exactly.
HAMMOND: Just keep thinking about that because I got some more stuff coming. And you may -- I'm going to try to persuade you.
SCHULTZ: We have primaries coming up. We have a number -- we have a 2026 election cycle coming up. I think Donald Trump, President Trump is going to be way more important to folks in that cycle than Elon Musk is. So, I think they're going to continue to hang in there for the president.
PHILLIP: Not if Elon Musk has $500 million. I mean --
SELLERS: But he can't run it either. I mean, like there's a balance.
PHILLIP: I think just the money is an issue here.
SCHULTZ: Popularity among the base, you just saw the polling the other day in Pennsylvania --
PHILLIP: because he's Elon.
SCHULTZ: 88 percent.
PHILLIP: Elon has gained and lost more money than Donald Trump has seen in his entire -- just in the last six months.
JENNINGS: I mean, he obviously has that kind of influence, monetary influence, and it will make, could make a difference in an election. But don't undercount the influence of the president among Republican primary voters, his base. They're all enormously happy with him. He is the unquestioned leader of the party. And what he says still very much goes inside of the Republican party Tent. I believe that will include primaries next year. So --
ABUGHAZALEH: Does it include people who lose their access to Medicaid or the ones that lose their SNAP benefits?
JENNINGS: Illegal aliens, they don't vote anyway. So, I guess it won't matter too much.
ABUGHAZALEH: Are you saying that only undocumented people --
JENNINGS: I'm saying we're going to make sure that no undocumented person --
ABUGHAZALEH: 11 million people are going to lose their healthcare.
JENNINGS: We're going to make sure that illegal aliens and folks who won't get off grandma's couch and try to work are not going to scam the system and we're going to preserve it for the people who need it.
SCHULTZ: They need body work provisions. I think that's something that --
SELLERS: Define it.
ABUGHAZALEH: What if you get sick and you can't work?
SELLERS: Define it. Define able-bodied people.
(CROSSTALKS)
SELLERS: No, no, but define it because there is a working poor in this country. You do identify with that. There are people who work 40 hours or more in this country that cannot afford the basic necessities, including insurance.
SCHULTZ: They're going to have Medicaid.
SELLERS: But there's a gap in many places that don't expand Medicaid.
SCHULTZ: Okay. So you know who determines who gets Medicaid for the most part, right?
SELLERS: Yes. I was in the state legislature. Yes, I got you. I got it. I was there for a decade, eight years, for people fact-checking. SCHULTZ: You can't take anybody off the rolls, right. What this bill does is say, states, you can take people off the rolls now --
SELLERS: Correct.
SCHULTZ: -- if they're ineligible, right?
SELLERS: Okay.
SCHULTZ: So, if they're ineligible, they're going to go off the roll. How are they ineligible? So --
ABUGHAZALEH: If they can't work --
PHILLIP: I've said this many times at this table, you can't just say, if they're ineligible. You have to also --
SELLERS: define what you're talking about.
PHILLIP: You also acknowledge -- hold on. You have to acknowledge that this bill makes more people ineligible. That's part of what the bill does.
JENNINGS: If they don't meet -- if they don't meet work requirements.
PHILLIP: Work requirements are such that people who are currently already working may not meet the requirements under this bill. So, people who are working now are going to, some of them, not meet the requirements under this bill or because --
JENNINGS: Why wouldn't they meet it.
PHILLIP: Okay. I've given this example many times, I'll give it again. The bill has a provision that says that if you have a child who is older than the age of seven, you have to meet a higher work requirement level. So, if you're a mom, a single mom, and you're the only person taking care of a child, and you have a 14-year-old or a 13-year-old, or a 12-year-old, the bill says you have to work a lot more. Some people are not going to be able to do that. They may lose their Medicaid.
So, the bill has provisions in there that creates gaps for people. But it -- so, look, you can defend that. I'm just saying be honest about it. That's all I'm saying.
SCHULTZ: That's where I think the Senate is probably --
PHILLIP: You can't just say it's like you're ineligible, if you're lazy, if you're cheating, it's not those people.
JENNINGS: It is.
PHILLIP: That's not --
JENNINGS: But it is.
PHILLIP: It's not just --
JENNINGS: That's the literal target. It is the literal target.
[22:30:00]
(CROSSTALKS)
ABUGHAZALEH: Everyone deserves healthcare.
JENNINGS: Even illegals?
ABUGHAZALEH: Every single person in the world deserves healthcare.
JENNINGS: Just for the record, as a candidate, you're for illegal aliens getting Medicaid?
ABUGHAZALEH: I think everyone in the world deserves health care.
JENNINGS: That's a yes. That's a yes.
ABUGHAZALEH: I'm such a Democrat.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: I mean, it is a yes.
ABUGHAZALEH: Yeah.
JENNINGS: It's a democratic position. Illegal aliens should get Medicaid.
UNKNOWN: But I mean, I mean -- I don't --
ABUGHAZALEH: That wasn't controversial.
JENNINGS: That wasn't controversial?
(CROSSTALK)
ABUGHAZALEH: -- controversial if a woman died in the hospital because they can't afford it.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: What do you think pays for health care when undocumented people show up at a hospital? Who pays for that?
JENNINGS: We all pay for it.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: -- including --
(CROSSTALK) SELLERS: but they actually contribute.
JENNINGS: That's the point. That's the point.
PHILLIP: I just want to remind -- I just want to remind --
SELLERS: We do realize that undocumented --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Who pays for the welfare system in this country generally? Taxpayers.
PHILLIP: And perhaps everyone else that there's no free lunch here. Okay?
JENNINGS: For the -- for the illegals?
PHILLIP: You either have a -- you either have a program --
SELLERS: Yeah, but they contribute.
PHILLIP: Hold on. You -- there's a reason that some states have decided to do this. You either have a program that rationalizes those costs or you just throw the cost onto taxpayers by default. And so, people who have insurance end up paying a lot more because they're subsidized by people who don't.
SELLERS: Can I make a different argument though? Can I make one different argument just so we can kind of level set? Like for example, if you actually go through with this and the number of people on Medicaid decreases, what happens in rural places like Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina, Georgia, South Carolina, where I'm from, that means that hospitals are more likely to close down.
Medi -- healthcare providers are more likely to shutter. What happens when a hospital closes in a poor rural community? Well, one second. One second. Do you know what happens when that happens? That means the pharmacy closes down. That means the little motel closes down. That means the florist closes down. The restaurant. It -- it destroys your entire economy around it.
JENNINGS: So, by definition --
ABUGHAZALEH: So many hospitals closed since --
(CROSSTALK)
ABUGHAZALEH: -- afraid of the liabilities.
JENNINGS: According to your logic train --
SELLERS: Yes.
JENNINGS: -- we need to let more illegal aliens into the country --
SELLERS: I'm not -- first of all --
JENNINGS: -- give them more health care to keep all the hospitals --
SELLERS: Let me -- let me tell you what I'm saying.
JENNINGS: Can you forward or not?
SELLERS: Can I start my logic train here?
JENNINGS: Are you forward or not?
SELLERS: My logic train starts with the fact that I don't want to --
JENNINGS: Just say yes.
SELLERS: I don't want to kick 11 million people off Medicaid.
JENNINGS: Do you want Medicaid on illegal aliens on or not?
SELLERS: Do I want -- first of all, do I want undocumented citizens to have health care?
JENNINGS: Just say yes.
SELLERS: The answer is yes, okay?
ABUGHAZALEH: Scott, if someone is undocumented, do you want them to not get insulin if they're diabetic?
JENNINGS: I want Medicaid to exist first and foremost for American citizens who need it.
SELLERS: What about second? I mean, first and foremost, of course. But do you also -- do you rely --
JENNINGS: I want the program to exist and be --
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: Do you realize -- do you realize that when people show up at your hospital that we actually pay for that? Do you understand that when people get sick --
JENNINGS: I know how it works.
SELLERS: How about this? How about this? When the people that are -- that are picking your peaches -
JENNINGS: So passionate.
SELLERS: Yeah, I'm passionate about Americans.
JENNINGS: Very passionate for the illegals.
SELLERS: No, I'm passionate for Americans.
ABUGHAZALEH: Bakari, how dare you want people to be alive. How dare you?
JENNINGS: Passionate for the illegals. Bring more.
SELLERS: No. I actually want safe and secure borders.
JENNINGS: You need more. To make your vision of America work, we need more illegals who get more benefits. That's your version of America.
SELLERS: No. What I -- what I want from America is a place that was promised to us, Scott.
JENNINGS: To the illegals?
SELLERS: Like you do -- no, it was promised to us. It was promised to us.
JENNINGS: Us who?
SELLERS: Us, me and you, black and white, brown. Scott, do you think that you -- your family was born here?
JENNINGS: You were born here.
SELLERS: You were born here, Scott.
JENNINGS: I was born in --
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: First of all, where does your family come from? My family wasn't born here. My family was actually from Sierra Leone.
JENNINGS: You're making it -- you're making it passionate argument.
SELLERS: Correct.
JENNINGS: For a country built -- built on unfettered illegal immigration and that is not anywhere near a politically popular country.
SELLERS: No, our country is built on immigration, period.
JENNINGS: What kind?
SELLERS: Period.
JENNINGS: What kind?
PHILLIP: Okay.
SELLERS: Look. First of all, before we go to commercial, what kind -- what kind of immigration was I brought here?
JENNINGS: You're already in the hole. You sure you won't own a stop, Megan?
SELLERS: Because it was slavery. That's not immigration.
JENNINGS: Come on.
PHILLIP: Well, okay.
SELLERS: Come on what?
ABUGHAZALEH: Come on?
PHILLIP: There's -- there's a lot to be said. Come on.
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: No, no, no.
PHILLIP: No, no, no.
SELLERS: Don't say come on when somebody is like my family was brought here in chains. The answer is not come on.
PHILLIP: We're going to continue the conversation. There's a lot to be said about when immigration laws came into play in this country and how many people who came to this country as immigrants had neither legal nor illegal status and just were able to come.
SELLERS: Correct.
PHILLIP: But that's a different story for another time. We have much more of this conversation. Ahead, another MAGA billionaire rips what Trump is doing to the economy, and he is not just talking about the Big, Beautiful Bill.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:38:53]
PHILLIP: President Trump's agenda is receiving even more billionaire backlash, not just from his former BFF, Elon Musk. Here's the new warning from Republican mega donor and Trump backer, Ken Griffin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN GRIFFIN, CEO, CITADEL: The United States' fiscal house is not in order.
UNKNOWN: Right.
GRIFFIN: You -- you cannot run deficits of six or seven percent at full employment after years of growth. That's just fiscally irresponsible. The bill will unquestionably add several trillion dollars. There's a lot of questions -- marks in the bill as to as to why we're continuing to increase our tax cuts when we have a fiscal deficit of this magnitude.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: Sounds pretty rational. Essentially, what he's saying is, why won't you just consider allowing, especially tax cuts for the richest people to expire, to try to even chip away at some of this debt, which Trump and Republicans have promised they wanted to do for decades.
JIM SCHULTZ, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: Lot of tax cuts across the board, not just for the rich and -- and right --right down to folks that work in the service business.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Yeah. But they don't -- but they don't all have to be extended. They don't.
[22:40:00]
SCHULTZ: No. I understand. But the -- we've had record investment in this country. We -- over $2 trillion coming on the least, just out of the President's last trip. We just had Nippon Steel, which really impacts my State of Pennsylvania, right? Big investments, foreign investments in this country. Consumer confidence is at all time - is -- very high. And, you know, and I think the economy is humming along right now. So, to say that --
PHILLIP: What is that going to do for the debt and the deficit though?
SCHULTZ: Understood. But the tax cuts are absolutely essential. You know, absolutely essential. We --it's -- it's the cornerstone. He ran on lowering taxes. He ran on cutting taxes. It's -- it's got to get passed and that's ultimately --
PHILLIP: And this is -- I mean, Elon today actually retweeted something about the tax cuts, too. He was like, let the tax cuts expire. I mean, if he's saying that, if he stands to lose --
SCHULTZ: What about the --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Look, I think what's interesting to me is that Republicans in Congress act as if they do not have the ability to legislate, and legislating means you can write a bill that extends tax cuts for people who don't make a lot of money and raises them for people who do make a lot of money. That is an option available to them.
ABUGHAZALEH: Absolutely. And I mean, for this bill, for people making under $51,000, they're actually going to have to -- they're going to lose money because of this bill. And you can talk about tips not being taxed. I used to be a bartender. Our wages were pennies. And a lot of times your boss doesn't even pay them. So that honestly doesn't help as much as you think it was.
In the meantime, people that are making millions and millions or billions of dollars a year are going to be saving hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. And it's just not fair, and I think this is honestly an issue with both parties.
Just this removal of, like, what we have to pay for the golden dome, or we have to give these tax these tax breaks to the riches in our society, or we have to count out of corporations, and we just don't. I mean, my platform is housing, groceries, and health care. And then the ninth District of Illinois, that is what people have been wanting to hear, and I think that resonates with a lot of Americans or at least ones that, you know --
PHILLIP: I -- I have to just quickly add. We -- we just got a tweet from Elon or a -- ex-post from Elon or from J.D. Vance. He says, "President Trump has done more than any other person in my lifetime to earn the trust of the movement he leads. I'm proud to stand beside him." He's been pretty quiet all day today, which people have been looking sideways at.
JENNINGS: That -- that's going to be the message of most Republicans. I mean, they stand behind the President because they know that their voters and their constituents stand behind the President. So, I think what J.D.'s sentiments are, that's what you're going to hear from most virtually every Republican campaign out there. I'm with the President. I want the President to get his agenda.
SELLERS: That's going to be fascinating to watch because I do believe that the President's base is non-transferrable. And I think that there are a lot of people who believe that they can be MAGA-ish, and it just hasn't worked for them.
And we've seen that election after election. So, I -- I'm interested to see in these primaries as they come up, you know. Are you going to side with someone who has millions of dollars who can influence your campaign, or are you going to be with someone who is on their way out?
PHILLIP: All right. Up next for us, George Clooney is getting real about the state of America and how it relates to his Broadway play "Good Night and Good Luck". The cast is going to tell us their thoughts, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:47:52]
PHILLIP: This Saturday, the Broadway phenomenon "Goodnight and Good Luck" will air live right here on CNN in a first of its kind broadcast. It's the story of Edward R. Burrow's battle against McCarthyism and its relevance in today's climate.
Joining me now is Clark Gregg, Carter Hudson, director David Cromer, Georgia Heers, and Glenn Fleshler. This play has already broken multiple records, and it's -- it's become a phenomenon but also for these times. Like, tell us why you think the story is still resonating.
DAVID CROMER, "GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK" DIRECTOR: It's the moment when Murrow met with his team and they were discussing whether they were going to do the McCarthy broadcast and they all started kind of worrying about things and --and back pedaling and snapping at each other. And Murrow said, we're doing the broadcast because the terror is right here in this room.
George talks about it all the time. Grant talks about it all the time. And that in a time of fear, it's difficult to figure out how to be brave. It's difficult to figure out how to unify and move forward and that it became necessary when people were being, for want of a better word, terrorized.
PHILLIP: I mean, they were worried about the same things, I guess, people are worried about today. Audits, criminal charges, smears, accusations. I mean, it almost feels a little too similar.
CARTER HUDSON, "GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK" ACTOR: I keep thinking, like, when you guys decided to do this, it was a -- it was like a year or plus ago and --
UNKNOWN: Right.
HUDSON: Things were -- we didn't know we would be here.
CROMER: But -- but the trends are there. You know, I mean, the trends don't go away and I think that's --that's one of the -- one of the things, too, is it is what I was talking about. It's --it is a fearful time, but it is people are always -- we're always afraid and we always need courage. And it's hard to -- it's hard to be brave. It's work and it is risk.
PHILLIP: I think there's some similar, you know, parallels today. I wonder if you saw Glenn, Scott Pelley's commencement address at Wake Forest where he talked about the time that we're in. But what struck me is that people on the right in particular were so upset that he talked about the need for people to be free to speak their minds and not fear retribution.
[22:50:08]
And, one of the things about "Good Night and Good Luck" is that it shows that at the height of the popularity of journalists of this time, they weren't backing away from calling people out. They were actually leaning into that. I mean, do people forget? I mean, do we have these like rose-colored glasses about what it was like in the 1950s?
GLENN FLESHLER, "GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK" ACTOR: Television was so new that even though these people that were depicting are experts in their field, they're all figuring it out as they go along, you know. And this is one of the first documentary news shows, and it was live. And, you know, that, that was a great deal of pressure. And there's an undercurrent in our play at the beginning of the play that we all want to speak out, but no one knows quite how to do it.
And then we also see the corporate side, William S. Paley, who owned the network at that time, and, and had a very complicated relationship with Edward R. Murrow because they were friends. And also, Murrow was the star of his network at that time. He was the big star. PHILLIP: But he was reminded that he was an employee at the end of
the day.
FLESHLER: He was, he was indeed, and there are ramifications to everyone in this play, the real people that we're depicting, and you see the beginnings of it at the end of our play, but this would affect everybody's life. And I think that's one of the things that -- to remember. And also, there's one of the characters in our play, says, not so long ago we were all on the same side. So, that's also new, not just television, but the idea that communists, you know, that communism is a threat to our country.
PHILLIP: And Georgia, you play Ella, the - the vocalist. you kind of really help set the tone for the times. How did you use that role to kind of establish like the time and the place, right? Of this thing that's so far away for so many people?
GEORGIA HEERS, "GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK" ACTOR: Yeah. That's a great question. Actually, during rehearsals and kind of in the beginning period, I remember Cromer had a point about the musicians and especially my role being kind of a film scoring, so kind of reflecting the political and cultural time, and that's what the music was doing, too, in the forties, fifties, you know.
It was going from swing music, which was like a dance music, to bebop, which was much more conservative and almost a pushing back against the constrictions of like the creeping in of the fascism and how that spread into the music where it became more conservative. Are any of you thinking about, what it's like to then have this play, a stage production, be actually broadcast? I mean, is it going to change anything about what you do on Saturday night?
CLARK GREGG, "GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK" ACTOR: That's a really good question.
HUDSON: No. Nothing's going to change. We're going to do everything exactly the same.
(CROSSTALK)
FLESHLER: I was saying to David earlier, we had, Sir Paul McCartney at the show on Sunday, and he said, oh, you know, sometimes they'll do a live, stream one of my shows, and I, you know, I think about it, and then I go, well, I'm just going to do the show, you know. And so, that's kind of my approach is, just do the show, don't think too much about the broadcast part of it, and let you all take care of that.
PHILLIP: But it is a piece of history, I think, that's happening here, right?
CROMER: Right, and it is also a it is also a representation of history that happened, and as you were saying earlier about rose colored glasses, it is vital importance that we remember what happened before, that we can't pretend that fifties were simpler. It has always been complicated. It's always been difficult. It's always been filled with Bay Area. And our history, the facts of our history, good and bad, we have to keep it in the forefront. We cannot erase these things.
PHILLIP: Yeah.
CROMER: And this is one of the things that's been going on and one of the things that's been problematic and even if the election had gone a different way or the trends in our society were going a different way, always people trying to erase history and that's what we have to stop. So, hopefully we're making history with this, that's presumptuous of me, but we are attempting to remind people of some of our history.
HUDSON: Unlike any other play I've done, it feels like an active conversation with, with the audience that's there that night, in a way that I haven't really experienced before. Like, they are very much a part of the way the story's getting told.
What's exciting to me about the broadcast is to expand that conversation out, so that it can -- it can go to people who can't be in New York or who can't afford these tickets or, you know, those kinds of things that that we can -- we can have a bigger conversation in that way is also so unique to this play different from any other play I've done.
PHILLIP: Right. Well everyone, thank you very much for being here. We'll have an extra conversation on YouTube.
[22:55:00]
Check it out. And don't miss Broadway's "Good Night and Good Luck" presented live that Saturday night at 7 P.M. here on CNN and streaming on CNN.com. Up next, an explosive moment in the Diddy trial as the judge threatens to remove him for interacting with the jury. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:00:00]
PHILLIP: A special programming note for you. Most summer Fridays, we are taking the show on a little field trip. We're going to be broadcasting our roundtable debate from the Food Network Kitchen. We will have food, drinks, and some lively conversation. That's tomorrow. Don't miss it.
And thank you very much for watching "NewsNight" tonight. You can catch me anytime on your favorite social media -- X, Instagram, and TikTok. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
