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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Federal Judge Says, Trump Admin Should Stop Immigration Arrests; Trump Surveys Texas Flood Damage As Search Continues; Trump, Noem Soften Rhetoric On FEMA After Texas Floods; "NewsNight" Discusses FEMA Handling Of Texas Catastrophe; Dan Bongino Weighs Resigning His FBI Deputy Post. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired July 11, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, the MAGA fury about the Epstein case escalates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's doing the exact opposite of everything I voted for.
PHILLIP: Two top Trump officials clashing, and now one threatens to quit.
Also, Trump sees the heartbreak and damage in Texas firsthand, but bristles at accountability questions.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Only a bad person would ask a question like that.
PHILLIP: What we know one week after the deadly floods.
Plus, raids at a California farm turned dangerous. Migrants, protesters, and federal agents all caught in the chaos. But is public opinion turning toward more immigration?
And on the rocks --
TRUMP: Putin is not treating human beings right.
PHILLIP: -- is Trump done with Putin for good? He's teasing a major announcement on Russia.
Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Chuck Rocha, Tiffany Cross and Arthur Aidala.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Hello. I'm Abby Philip and I'm here for a special edition of NewsNight. This summer, we are taking the show on the road, some field trips, spending our Fridays right here at the Food Networks Kitchen in New York, our sister company.
But, first, we have some breaking news tonight, a federal judge just moments ago found that Department of Homeland Security has been making arrests in Los Angeles immigration raid without probable cause. So, she is ordering the department to stop detaining individuals based solely on race, spoken language, or occupation.
This is a major decision for the state of California, which has been at the epicenter of a lot of these immigration raids in the last couple of days, and it also comes after the Trump administration has explicitly said that those are the reasons that they might stop and detain, actually arrest people just because they're working at a Home Depot, maybe because they're speaking Spanish or because they look like they are undocumented.
What do you think?
ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: So, what the judge, I mean, really took the government to task where I'm quoting, what the federal government would have this court believe in the face of a mountain of evidence presented in this case is that none of this is actually happening. None of the -- what you just described is actually happening. So she basically is calling the government lawyers liars, which, when you're an attorney, is the worst thing that could happen to you. And she's basically saying there needs to be more due process before you could carry out the acts that you're carrying out. And you can't come and tell me, oh, we're not doing that because there's, quote/unquote, a mountain of evidence that shows that you are doing it.
CHUCK ROCHA, CO-HOST, THE LATINO VOTE PODCAST: Homan was on Fox News this morning and said as much exactly what this was about, and said that we're going after people who look like criminals. That could be me. I'm brown, and if I'm not wearing my nice sports coat, I look kind of shady. That's not how America's supposed to be built.
I also need to say that after this raid yesterday, that there was a farm worker, we don't know yet their documentation status, but they died. They died because they were getting chased through the fields, folks who are picking our food. We should be disgusted by this.
PHILLIP: Well, look I, you know what you're talking about, I mean, I have heard and know people who've had experiences in parts of the country where they are American citizens, and because they are of Hispanic origin and/or speak Spanish, have been stopped and have had their citizenship questioned. In this case, the consequences are not just questioning. ICE is detaining people. And in this lawsuit, one of the allegations was that some of the people were being denied counsel, that they're not being given an opportunity promptly to prove that they shouldn't be detained. And that's essentially the crux of the matter here.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Look, the goal should be to arrest and deport illegal immigrants. I mean, again, this is a clash between I think some federal judges, you know, who want to slow down the administration, an administration that wants to move fast on this.
[22:05:03]
You know, the goal should always be to deport people who've broken our laws.
And, you know, politically, I mean, Arthur's the lawyer, but, politically, what the administration's trying to do is fulfill the president's campaign promise, that he ran on and won, which was, look, I'm going to end this crisis. I'm going to take care of this problem. Nobody wants to deal with it. I'm going to deal with it.
In the case of this California raid everybody's talking about, I mean, you said, pick our food. I mean, wasn't it a marijuana farm, you know? And weren't there child -- illegal child migrants there, like child labor? The feds go interrupt a marijuana farm with the illegal child labor and people are upset about it? I mean, look, I think there's two sides of this story. Some of this aggressive enforcement may be warranted.
PHILLIP: So, let me just add a little bit of detail to what we're talking about here. I mean, this raid in California at two different ones that really resulted in a lot of violence. One person was killed, several others critically injured according to the United Farm Workers.
Let me just read for you -- actually, do I have their statement? Yes. Let me read for you their statement. It says, the UFW can confirm farm workers were critically injured yesterday in the chaotic raids in Ventura County. Others, including U.S. citizens, remain totally unaccounted for. Many workers, including U.S. citizens were held by federal authorities at the farm for eight hours or more. U.S. citizen workers report only being released after they were forced to delete photos and videos of the raid from their phones.
NBC actually talked to one of those individuals who was a supervisor at this farm and who said that they were assaulted and handcuffed when he asked ICE agents for an arrest warrant.
As for the children I don't know that we've really confirmed their status, documented or not, but a lot of people don't know. It's true that in agriculture, in this country, it is legal for children to work there, children sometimes as young as 12. So, that's the exception that the agricultural industry has. And if these children were undocumented, it just goes to show the economics of this, which we talked about before. The economics of this have been to the benefit of the agricultural industry, of the meat-packing industry, of these other industries and the people who are being chased around in the fields really are -- they're the only ones facing consequences, from this.
TIFFANY CROSS, HOST, "SAY IT LOUDER!": And that's what I wonder, like what the people who are employing some of these undocumented immigrants are not getting prosecuted for. Moreover, marijuana is legal in the state of California, so we shouldn't present that like as something nefarious. I take issue with a little something you said, Chuck. You said without your jacket, you know, or without your hat, you might look shady. Shady to whom? Who gets to decide who looks shady? That is precisely my point.
ROCHA: That was my point.
CROSS: So, the fact that we are even discussing as though it is a normal thing for a government agency to kidnap people without due process, if this person is not a citizen, then nor am I. Who is to stop somebody from coming to grab me and say, well, we don't think you're a citizen? If I don't have due process, my friend, Elsa, her son is born here in America, he was detained by ICE.
And when you look at the crime overall, undocumented immigrants are the least likely to commit crime. That has been well documented by our own law enforcement agents. And this creates, it sets a dangerous precedent. CNN's own reporting has cited at least three incidents of people dressing as ICE agents and attempting to kidnap people.
And once we say this is okay, because it's not going to stop until some white girl gets confiscated or some white girl gets kidnapped, then all of a sudden the lives really matter, then we'll say, oh, it's a problem. But you've already told these agencies they can act like that. We've seen people kidnapped from hospital beds. We've seen mothers who are the sole caregivers for children's cancer get kidnapped. It is not okay. It's like we're waiting for this administration to cross some invisible line into fascism that has been crossed a long time ago.
AIDALA: I don't think President Trump's goal -- I think President Trump's goal and what he campaigned on and what he would like to achieve in an idealistic world is finding the people who are here illegally, especially the ones who are committing crimes or have committed crimes, whether in the United States of America or in their home countries and eliminating them.
He's a New Yorker, Donald Trump. We're in a kitchen. He knows who controls the kitchens in the back of the best restaurants in the city of New York, a lot of undocumented people. He has said on the record already that in the fields and in agriculture, we need a lot of these people. If these people disappear, we're in trouble.
PHILLIP: But they also rolled that back, you know?
AIDALA: Excuse me.
PHILLIP: I mean, they have walked some of that back. And I would also add that that's not what Trump is doing. He is arresting people by some accounts, you know, maybe more than half of the people that have been detained by ICE so far that have no criminal record. So we know that's happening.
[22:10:00]
And just on the politics of this for a second, Gallup had a pretty blockbuster poll today, because they've been looking at this issue obviously for a very long time, and they have some comparative data. And what they have found is that Trump has not made immigration less popular. He's not made a pathway to citizenship less popular. He's made them more popular. So, now, 78 percent of Americans say they support a pathway to citizenship for immigrants who are here illegally. That was -- that's up seven points from last year. Now, Americans say they want more immigration, not less immigration. Now, Americans say they want less Border Patrol agents, not more.
AIDALA: But is that legal immigration or illegal immigration?
PHILLIP: What are you talking about? No, no, hold on. Let me read it again. 70 percent back a year ago supported a pathway to citizenship for immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally. That number is now 78 percent.
JENNINGS: But does that mean put at the front of the line or the back of the line? Do they have to --
ROCHA: There ain't no line, there's just ain't no line.
PHILLIP: You can decide -- you can --
JENNINGS: Because there are people trying to come here illegally.
PHILLIP: Hold on a second, Scott. You can decide whether it's the front of the line or the back of the line.
JENNINGS: It matters.
PHILLIP: I think -- yes. But the point is, Donald Trump is basically carrying out a policy that says any individual who is here illegally, in an undocumented status is, liable to be detained and deported. Some of them with process, some of them without, and a majority of Americans, almost 80 percent say we should give them a path to citizenship.
JENNINGS: Look I think it depends on how you ask these questions. I strongly --
PHILLIP: I mean, this question has been asked the same way -- that's the reason I want to use this poll is because this question has been asked the same way over time. And that's one of the only ways that we can make sure that we're looking at the same thing over time.
JENNINGS: But I think there's a difference between people who came here illegally, broke the law, knowingly did that, versus people who want to legally come here and are going through the process. That does take a long time. I don't know why you would take a population that broke the laws and put them at the front instead of putting them behind people who are trying to follow the correct process.
Regarding more immigration, I think most Americans are fine with immigration, legal immigration, legal immigration. Illegal immigration and the chaos that's come from it from the last four years, that's what they have a problem with. ROCHA: Let me break down some of these numbers for you. We're doing focus groups in battleground states right now asking this exact same question. What we're seeing almost overall is there's a group of folks who, when you ask them, do you think that undocumented immigrants who commit crimes should be deported? And everybody, Democrats, independents, everybody's like, sure, long as there's some process and they're here and they broke the law, absolutely.
What they're really recoiling from and what you're seeing in this poll and I'm seeing in focus groups are Jose down the street who's been here for 20 years, or somebody that's picking your food, or somebody who did come here, quote/unquote, undocumented or illegal, who they didn't say, I didn't sign up for this. And you don't see a giant movement, you're seeing a movement over time now since the first of the year, a movement about ten points in the stuff that we're doing.
PHILLIP: Let me read a little bit more from what the judge's order said. It said, the defendants may not rely solely on the factors below alone or in combination to form reasonable suspicion for a detentive stop, except, as permitted by law, one is apparent race or ethnicity, two is speaking Spanish or speaking English with an accent, three is present at a particular location, and four is the type of work one does.
We know from the reporting that the directive from Stephen Miller, who has been the architect of this policy, was --
CROSS: Who is a big nationalist.
PHILLIP: -- was get to 3,000 arrests a day. And if you have to just go outside of a Home Depot and round them up, do so. And that is exactly what we have seen.
And the judge is saying, you cannot do that. You have to know who you're going after, have a reasonable belief that they're here illegally before you arrest them and put them in a jail.
AIDALA: I mean, what you're talking about is you learn that like the first year of law school. I mean that's absolutely the law, the federal law, it's the New York State law. You know, yes, you cannot just pick someone out and say, oh, look at the color of their skin, let me grab them, you can't pick them up on an anonymous tip, if I say, oh, there's a guy with a pink brooch, go arrest him, but I won't give you my name, you can't grab him. Yes, you can't grab them anonymously. Someone's got to -- so, yes, there are tremendous protections for American citizens.
So, now, the question comes down to if a federal agent knows that this particular group of people outside the Home Depot, we have reasonable cause to believe, based on reliable evidence, like a confidential informant, who says, everyone there, I could tell you, because I'm a worker who hires them, they're here illegally. If someone tells them that, then they can grab them. But they can't just grab them because they're hanging out in the Home Depot.
PHILLIP: Here's what DHS is saying. Trisha McLaughlin gave the statement to the Associated Press.
[22:15:01]
Any claims that individuals have been targeted by law enforcement because of their skin color are disgusting and categorically false. Enforcement operations are highly targeted and officers do their due diligence before making arrests. So, I want you to hear that and then I want to play for you what Tom Homan said just this morning on Fox.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: People need to understand ICE officers and Border Patrol, they don't need probable calls to walk up somebody briefly detain them and question them. They just need to so totality the circumstances, right? They just got through the observation, you know, get our typical facts based on the location, the occupation, their physical appearance, their actions, like a uniform Border Patrol walks up to them at, for instance, a Home Depot. And they got all these articulable facts, plus the person walks away or runs away.
But, you know, the agents are trained what they need to detain somebody temporarily and question them. It's not probable cause. It's reasonable suspicions. We're trained on that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, everybody heard that crystal clear, okay, literally word for word. Their accent, where they work, the -- you know, all of that in his mind is enough to detain people. Just as a practical example, because we were talking about what happened at this farm, some of the individuals who are working at this marijuana farm were U.S. citizens, some of them had work permits. We don't know all the statuses of all the people, but we do know some of those people were of mixed status.
So, in other words, you have ICE going in and they seem prepared to really round everybody up. So, if you're a citizen or you have legal status, you're liable to be rounded up regardless of that, and they will ask questions later. And I think that's the type of thing that the judge is saying cannot happen anymore.
JENNINGS: Yes. It sounds like, you know, they're going to continue to fight this out in court. Obviously, the administration has a point of view here. It's different than what the court said.
I just want to go back to the thing I was most concerned about in reading all of this today, and that's that these little children are found on these farms. I mean, are we really saying here in the year 2025, well, we have to maintain the status quo of illegal immigration in the United States because we need little children to pick marijuana in California? It's like blowing my mind.
PHILLIP: No. You know, Scott, I think you're making a really -- frankly, it's a very important point. I mean, the fact that young children, immigrants or not, are working on these farms, whether they're forced to because they have to make money for their families, or maybe they, you know --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: For whatever reason, I totally agree that that is something that we as a country need to address. But I think you have to acknowledge that there has been no effort made by policymakers, Republican or Democrat, to address the driving causes of that, which are the employers willing to employ these children. Who is employing a 16-year-old undocumented immigrant and why are those questions --
JENNINGS: I mean, one of the farms that was raided, I read, is, you know, even a Gavin Newsom donor. I think the governor of California should ask why you're doing these things. And I don't have a problem going after employers. I really don't.
PHILLIP: I know we want to make it about California, but it's not about California.
JENNINGS: Well, in this case --
PHILLIP: There are more than a dozen states in this country allow children to work on farms. Who do you think those children are? Those children are more than likely going to be immigrants or undocumented immigrants.
JENNINGS: But the cases we're dealing with today were in California.
PHILLIP: I'm just saying it's not a California thing. It's a United States of America thing.
CROSS: And if we're so concerned about children, Scott, there are people who -- there are parents who are being kidnapped by this agency, where their children are in school. There are parents who are being kidnapped by this agency whose children are literally dying. And so if we're so concerned about children, maybe we should stop kidnapping people.
JENNINGS: Who's dying?
CROSS: Well, their children are dying and their sole caretakers are being deported by ICE. There are multiple cases where they are kidnapping people out of hospitals.
JENNINGS: What does kidnapping mean?
PHILLIP: It means a government agency has been given license to disappear people. That is what it means.
JENNINGS: What does that mean? So, you mean an ICE agent takes an illegal immigrant into custody.
PHILLIP: We got to squeeze in a quick break.
CROSS: Yes. But you don't know if they're an illegal immigrant. That is my point. I don't use that term. You don't know what their status is. And so if you can just come and snatch somebody off a street and say, you don't get due process, and that means I'm not a citizen. It is a disgusting thing that we're watching. And anybody who defends it is disgusting and despicable and deplorable when you see the horrific conditions that people are being kept in and they don't deserve it.
PHILLIP: We got to leave it there and squeeze in a quick break. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: Just one week after catastrophic flash flooding hit Central Texas, there are some major question still about the disaster response at both the federal and the local levels. Trump was there on the ground today to survey the devastation, and he met with families and first responders, and he seemed to brush off the criticism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I just have admiration for the job that everybody did. There's just admiration. The only bad person would ask a question like that.
Everybody in this room did an incredible job and the public knows it. You know, the public's wise too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: At least 128 people were killed when an entire summer's worth of rain fell in just a few short hours. At least 150 are still missing. And as the community is trying to pick up the pieces here, we are learning that the White House is now softening some of its tone on FEMA. It's now suggesting that the agency might not totally be eliminated, but rather reformed.
It's a sharp shift after Trump and his top officials repeatedly said that they plan to rip it to shreds.
[22:25:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think we're going to recommend that FEMA go away.
KRISTI NOEM, DHS SECRETARY: And we're going to eliminate FEMA. So, we've got a lot to do.
TRUMP: We want to wean off of FEMA and we want to bring it down to the state level.
NOEM: This entire agency needs to be eliminated as it exists today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I just want to start with some new reporting because I think on this question of like where FEMA is right now and what has been the effect of cuts, government cuts on this agency, the Times has a piece saying just tonight, two days after the catastrophic floods roared through Central Texas, FEMA did not answer nearly two thirds of calls to its disaster assistance line,Aacording to the documents reviewed by The New York Times. That lack of responsiveness happened because the agency had fired hundreds of contractors at call centers. That's according to a person briefed on the matter.
That's pretty stark after a disaster, people trying to pick up the pieces. FEMA is often the first line of response, and they're getting nothing.
ROCHA: You know, I've walked all over this river bottom down there. Fredericksburg is the first place I ever went where we had it dearly. So, I literally just walked these bottoms. And all these river beds are dry. Me and Scott were talking about it in the green room. There's hills everywhere there that funnels all the waters, and that's why they call it flooding alley.
And let me -- I can be critical of a Democratic president and a Republican one at the same time just to show that FEMA probably was slow in North Carolina on those floods as well. We saw that from people you reported. We all reported on it. But it's just been made worse to the point you're talking about with the cuts on top of them already being slow.
And if you noticed everybody, have you seen the FEMA administrator in Texas? You haven't. You've seen Noem because the FEMA administrator is the one who admitted they don't have any expertise in emergency management. These are the little things we should be looking at to make sure that our government is working the way it's supposed to be working.
PHILLIP: I also don't understand President Trump going to a place where so many people are not even found yet. Children have been killed and saying, everybody did a great job.
JENNINGS: Well, look I think it's pretty common for commanders-in- chief, presidents to go to crisis or disastrous situations to comfort people, to offer support to the local officials. I mean, look, in this case, the National Weather Service, those meteorologists and those experts did a great job. There are story after story of heroes carrying people out of there, saving them. There are people still out there looking for people. I mean, there's a lot of heroics here on the ground in Texas.
So, I actually think part of the job of a president is to go comfort people and it's also to talk to the local officials, the governor, the local officials, and say, what do you need now? Like what can we do in the short-term, medium-term, and long-term?
So, I actually think it was good that he waited a few days because presidential visits are disruptive. But to go and say to everybody who's working so hard and who offered their heroic time and service in this, thank you. I don't think that's a bad thing at all.
AIDALA: I believe George W. Bush went to the Pentagon on September 13th, and I'm pretty sure he was down at ground zero, September 14th, for the exact same reasons, to be a cheerleader to give -- I mean. Melania Trump does not get the credit she deserves. She is a classy, elegant, loving woman, and I am sure she gave a billion hugs to a billion members of those families that are absolutely devastated.
And I will tell you, losing my best friend on 9/11, I didn't see the president of the United States.
ROCHA: That's how U.S. immigrants work. We are nice to people, all of us immigrants.
AIDALA: Yes. Well, I didn't lose -- I didn't meet the president, but I met Rudy Giuliani, who was the mayor at that time, and my heart was shattered. I mean, I had dinner with my best friend on Saturday. He died Tuesday morning at 34 years old with a three-month-old at home.
But getting that hug from Mayor Giuliani, it means -- it meant the world to me. I still remember it to this day. And I'm sure President Trump and Melania Trump providing that comfort when you're so -- I mean, those little girls who were killed, I mean --
PHILLIP: Yes. And trust me, look the role of comforter of the president in a moment like this is extremely important. And I think that that's definitely the purpose of this particular visit, but it's not just today. This administration prior to today, including Kristi Noem and others, I mean, Trump today said it was evil to ask questions about whether everything had been done to prevent the extent of this tragedy, but other officials have questioned whether you should even ask at all whether anything more could have been done, when we know that there were things that were missing here, sirens, warning systems. There were reports as recently as October, saying this area is prone to extreme floods. FEMA has money for this. Apply for a grant. The grant wasn't provided by --
ROCHA: $11 million was given to the city.
PHILLIP: To the state, and was not provided to this area, this community.
So, there are really important questions that do need to be asked.
CROSS: What is bizarre to me is that just weeks ago, Donald Trump was talking about eliminating this department, and then today he's like, oh, maybe this department matters.
[22:30:06]
It's like he is so inept at what it takes. His first job in government was as President of the United States. And he's learning on the job that these agencies actually do matter while he has all these other agencies on the chopping block.
We've actually seen this before during Katrina in 2005, almost 20 years ago. FEMA was completely ill equipped to handle what was happening because they were establishing their new home within the newly formed Department of Homeland Security under then Republican Governor Tom Ridge. Yeah, Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge. FEMA supports -- when you have a disaster like this, the local EMS, they're the first on the scene. When they're overwhelmed, they go to the state. When the state is overwhelmed, they go to FEMA. I am your average citizen. I covered Hurricane Katrina. I was on the ground then. The fact that I know more about this than the commander in chief, who has, for weeks been saying, and yes, we heard from the puppy killer saying that, you know, FEMA should go away -- Kristi Noem.
And now, we're hearing this president trying to deny or not really answer questions. And instead of holding any accountability, attack the press for holding him accountable for what he said is bizarre. He doesn't get credit for being on ground --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: It's hard to -- it's also hard to miss the difference in tone. You know, when California was dealing with these horrific fires, there was nothing but blame from the very beginning, from Washington. And a threat that they would not provide aid to the city. And so it is, I think, disconcerting that these types of disasters are being met with such disparate responses from the president.
(CROSSTALK)
CROSS: They're politicizing --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I disagree with your characterization of what happened in L.A. Actually, the EPA, right out at the gate, right as Donald Trump was being sworn and Lee Zeldin was taking the job, in record time went through the level one initial cleanup in L.A. So, it was an immediate -- immediate response.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Sure, but you don't remember -- but do you not remember Trump blaming the mayor and the governor for the fires that happened.
JENNINGS: Well, I mean, I do think there was some legitimate criticism of the local --
UNKNOWN: Sure.
PHILLIP: But they blamed the mayor and the government for fires after people lost their homes. People lost their lives in Los Angeles. So -- so --
JENNINGS: Wait, are we allowed to criticize the local government or not? You just said -- we're not.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: No, no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: None of this is -- none of this is about blaming individuals which is what Trump did. This is about what systems were or were not in place. And I think questions were asked correctly in L.A. about access to fire hydrants and water. Questions should be asked here in this horrible tragedy about what should have been done to warn these -- these individuals, families, and children.
JENNINGS: I don't mind questions being asked about what should be done moving forward, what could be done better in the future. I do think some people have attempted to politicize this wrongly. People have raised questions about false questions and false accusations about what the National Weather Service staffing looked like.
Everybody on the ground has said the Weather Service was staffed, the warnings were issued in a timely fashion. But you still have Democratic politicians out there today making false claims about that and trying to politicize it to hurt Trump. But to ask questions for the future? That's fine.
PHILLIP: I would -- I would argue that Trump doesn't have much of a leg to stand on when it comes to politicizing tragedies of national -- natural disasters like this. So, I think it's hard for him to cast blame in that way.
But coming up next, a key Trump world figure. He's considering resigning from the administration after the DOJ contradicted conspiracy theories about convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. We'll discuss the fallout from that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:38:07]
PHILLIP: And welcome back. It's our summer edition of our show and we are at the Food Network Kitchen in New York with our friends of the program and a fantastic chef with a special summer dish that they're cooking up over there, but that is to come.
First, it is a fall from MAGA's graces. Sources tell CNN that Kash Patel's right-hand man, Dan Bongino, is weighing resigning his deputy post at the FBI over backlash from this week's release of the Jeffrey Epstein memo and how the DOJ handled it all.
This is all according to sources and it came to a head during a heated meeting on Wednesday that included Attorney General Pam Bondi and Trump's Chief of Staff Susie Wiles where both men were confronted about leaking a story that the DOJ blocked the FBI from releasing more information about the Epstein case. All of which has led to outrage -- outrage from conservatives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: How many of you are satisfied, you can -- you can clap. Satisfied with the results of the Epstein investigation? Clap. (BOOING)
INGRAHAM: How many of you are not satisfied with the results of the investigation?
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: And that's not even the half of it. Multiple sources say Bongino didn't even show up to work at the FBI today. As one source put it aptly, "The whole thing has been a complete mess," but let's not forget that it was Dan Bongino who in part made a name for himself by pushing conspiracies about Jeffrey Epstein and feeding red meat to the MAGA base.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN BONGINO, "THE DAN BONGINO SHOW": The questions surrounding this alleged suicide are numerous.
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
BONGINO: And are worth entertaining, and worth getting to the bottom of quickly. I think Jeffrey Epstein may have some videotape of people central to the Democrat.
[22:40:01]
And maybe Republican Party doing some things, let's just say they shouldn't be doing. Why was the CIA director meeting with Jeffrey Epstein? Listen, that Jeffrey Epstein story is a big deal. Please do not let that story go. Keep your eye on it. I'm not ever going to let this story go because of what I heard from a source about Bill Clinton on a plane with Jeffrey Epstein. I talked about it yesterday. You can go check it out. I'm not letting it go ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLLIP: Joining us at the table is National Trial Attorney Donte Mills, who's a civil and criminal attorney and law professor at Temple University's Beasley School of Law. I also should disclose that Arthur Aidala, our friend here, is the attorney for Ghislaine Maxwell, who's a part of the Epstein universe.
Let me -- let me start really quickly, though, on the politics of this all, because we played a little bit from Turning Point USA. But there were several speakers, Scott, who went up there and lambasted this administration. And they also suggest very specifically that they wanted Pam Bondi gone and Dan Bongino to stay. So, is that what's going on here?
JENNINGS: Well, it's true that in some corners of the president's coalition, there's a lot of anger and lot of interest in this. It's also true that in other corners of the President's coalition and the greater electorate that they care more about bigger issues, immigration, economy, what have you. But you can't deny what you're hearing in some of these crowds and in some of, you know, conservative media.
My only advice for all of this would be A, I like Dan Bongino, I hope he doesn't resign. I think it was a good pick and defended it when he made it and I hope he stays in his job. B, internal drama and internal division, just as a former White House staffer, it's a headache for president and it can derail, you know, the larger successes.
And right now, I think Trump's setting a lot of successes whether it's on the economy, broader front. So, this -- this right here, like, whatever happens needs to happen. And it needs to happen quickly because the division needs to stop.
PHILLIP: Well, if it were -- if it's up to Laura Loomer who's been running personnel at the White House from the outside for the last few months, she's gotten a lot of people fired, so far. She has said pretty clearly, "Fire Scam Blondie". And she also tweeted tonight or put up on X, "I love it when a plan comes together."
She also speculated, perhaps, "If Blondi is fired, I'm told Ron DeSantis has been considered floated for the attorney general role over the last few months." You can't discount it because Laura Loomer actually, apparently, is a very powerful figure in this administration.
CROSS: And that is the most bizarre part about all of this, that we are discussing this as though it's normal, as though this crazy right- wing extremist conspiracy theorist is running personnel at the White House. That we're discussing as though it's normal that Dan Bongino, who was also a conspiracy theorist, who was a birther, who said his entire goal was to "own the libs", I don't know what that means, but it's some asinine statement made by right-wing extremists. I have no idea what any of this means.
He is the deputy director of the FBI. Even outside of the Epstein file, if this were a normal time, if this were a normal news cycle, I would be all about the Epstein files. Yes, we need to know. But they dangled this out there as bloody meat for their base. And now that they're cannibalizing, it is a good time. You think I care Dan Bongino is leaving the FBI? He is a crazy person. He has no business being there.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, let's ask the question, Arthur. Arthur, this is all happening because I guess Dan Bongino is committed to the idea that there is a list. And that this administration isn't releasing it. And that Epstein was not -- did not commit suicide but he was killed. Is there a list, first of all?
AIDALA: Well, obviously I can't violate attorney-client privilege. However, I can tell you my experience as a prosecutor and as a defense attorney for three decades, I have no client that has ever kept a written log of all the crimes that they've committed or anyone they've committed them with or anyone around them has committed with. It just -- it just doesn't happen.
So, for someone as intelligent somehow or another Jeffrey Epstein made a lot of money. So, there's got to be a degree of intelligence there. I don't think he's committing crimes. I don't think he's putting a list together. And I don't think there's a list that exists.
And look, let's face it. You want me to put the cards on the table? Ghislaine Maxwell's 20 years in prison. She's the only person who was even charged. She was never even mentioned when they first charged Jeffrey Epstein. But once he's dead, well now, what are they going to do? They spent millions of dollars on this whole investigation. All of a sudden, for the first time after he's dead, her name comes up. They charge her.
They -- they throw everything they have on her. If she had something -- look, Sammy "The Bull" Gravano testified against John Gotti and put the biggest mobster in jail ever. If there was something that was there that could save someone's life, I think that person would take it into consideration. But maybe there's nothing there and a podcaster at the time made a big deal and made a huge name for himself --
PHILLIP: Yeah.
AIDALA: -- by making assumptions that just weren't --
(CROSSTALK)
DONTE MILLS, NATIONAL TRIAL ATTORNEY: My issue with this is checks and balances, is what our system is based on.
[22:45:02]
And when you have, right now, what's happening is somebody who was in the orbit of Jeffrey Epstein -- Donald Trump. He's -- he put the kibosh on the investigation and said I've decided I didn't do anything wrong. There's nothing to see here. How dare you even continue to talk about this?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: So, you think that this is about Donald Trump being implicated?
MILLS: I think this is about Donald Trump. We can argue about Bongino or Bondi.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: But here's the other argument that people have made --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLS: He's stopping something because he told her to.
PHILLIP: -- people have made the argument that why didn't -- you know, why wouldn't Biden have tried to nail Trump on this if his name was on some kind of list?
MILLS: We don't know where the investigation went or if there's a list. I've had clients as a criminal defense attorney that did, in fact, keep lists because they wanted to protect themselves and they knew that was their ace in the hole. We don't know that but what I'm saying is --
PHILLIP: Which is I think the argument that people have made.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLS: Absolutely. But there has to be a check and balance when you can't have somebody that's involved in something have the ability to put a kibosh on it.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: You're making a direct assertion that you believe the current President of United States, the most vetted politician in the history of this country in the year of our Lord 2025, you think there's secret information that has never come to light, even though we had Democrats in charge and law enforcement agencies chasing him all over for the last several years, that somehow is still a secret? Like there's secret information that we don't know about Donald Trump?
MILLS: I'm not saying that's true, but what I'm saying is you don't leave the person who may be -
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: No, you just asserted that -- you said that in the orbit, directly involved.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLS: -- to decide that. You don't leave --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: It's already big assertion.
(CROSSTALK)
AIDALA: To Abby's point --
CROSS: Well, there is a video of Donald Trump with Jeffrey Epstein, so I see your point. Like he -- and this is very consistent with how he's run this administration. It is not a democracy where they're not co- equal branches of government.
PHILLIP: We only have 30 seconds. Real quick, Arthur. DOJ -- how should they handle this at this point?
AIDALA: So far, they've been transparent. They said, look, we did a --
(CROSSTALK) PHILLIP: You think they're just -- you think they're on the up and up -- they've told everybody everything that they know?
AIDALA: Look.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLS: You've been in prisons. There's not a minute -- there's not a minute missing on videos consistently every day. She has made that up. That doesn't happen. You know that. I still -- prisons -- you -- know how it works.
AIDALA: You asked me about whether I thought he committed suicide and you asked me about whether there was a list. But to your point, Abby, if there was a list that had Donald Trump's name on it anywhere, you don't think between the Biden and -- and Kamala Harris campaigns, that would have been put out there somewhere? Of course, it would.
(CROSSTALK)
AIDALA: So, it doesn't exist.
PHILLIP: We got to go. We got to go. But since you mentioned it, just yes or no, you think there some questions about whether he committed suicide?
AIDALA: Yes.
PHILLIP: All right. Donte Mills, thank you very much for joining us. Next, our panel is going to give us their nightcaps inspired by some news in food company breakups and pairings. And Chef Amanda is coming over with some real nightcaps for us now. Finally. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:52:23]
PHILLIP: We're back. Chuck is back and we're here with Amanda Neal, lead recipe developer at The Food Network. So, Chef Amanda, tell us about this great recipe. I've already tasted it. It's really delicious.
AMANDA NEAL, "FOOD NETWORK" LEAD DEVELOPER: Thank you. So, today, I made for you a sweet tea brine chicken that I just grilled for you with a little bit of a peach and baby arugula salad with mint and lemon. Just very summery.
PHILLIP: Love it.
NEAL: Wanted to bring the outdoors in for you tonight.
PHILLIP: Love it. There's nothing I love more than a grilled peach, okay? Just for the record. Scan that Q.R. code on your screen for this brine chicken recipe. And for tonight's nightcap, Kraft Heinz is reportedly looking to sell parts of its grocery business, Ferrero Group, which makes Nutella, which we love, and it's -- and is buying cereal maker W.K. Kellogg -- that got us thinking. So, what is your favorite unusual food combination? Chef, we'll start with you.
NEAL: So, I thought long and hard about this and it is a little controversial. But my favorite is ranch and pizza.
AIDALA: Where are you from? Kentucky or something like that?
(LAUGHTER)
AIDALA: It was almost as bad as like the smartest person here who's - (inaudible) pineapple on pizza.
NEAL: I mean --
AIDALA: Come on, Chef. You're better than that.
PHILLIP: I can -- I can live with it. I can live with it. Like, it -- I wouldn't do it but I could eat it.
AIDALA: You have to be nice because she's the host of the show.
PHILLIP: Exactly. And listen --
AIDALA: And she's cooking for you on a Friday night.
PHILLIP: She's got a great palate. She cooked us great food. Who am I to say? Who am I to say? Okay. Arthur.
AIDALA: Well, in my household, there's always olive oil around. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner, right, Chef, right?
NEAL: Yes.
AIDALA: You always have to olive oil around. And there's a portion in southern Italy, in Calabria, where I went there and they had gelato. And the gelato had olive oil and crushed red pepper.
PHILLIP: That sounds --
AIDALA: And you would think it's nuts, but it's -- it's spectacular. Just a great vanilla with really good olive oil. You mixed in some red pepper. And it's right on Kentucky. Right on Kentucky.
PHILLIP: I'm actually -- don't say that about Kentucky. I'm actually very into that. That sounds delicious. I think olive oil ice cream is excellent. All right. Chuck
ROCHA: Well, first of all, I missed out on last segment I started drinking one segment ago. Put that out there. Second, all that, you know, I grew up really poor in a trailer house in East Texas.
Everybody knows that. I used to put ketchup on everything and it drove my grandmother who made Southern cooking every night. We had some kind of fresh vegetable to meet every night and I'm putting ketchup on my eggs. That's what I would do every day. JENNINGS: I do that.
ROCHA: Absolutely all the time.
JENNINGS: I did that this morning.
ROCHA: But my grandmother -- you made me think about something. My grandmother used to put salt on watermelon.
JENNINGS: Same. My granddad did that.
[23:00:00]
PHILLIP: Oh, that is a legit thing.
ROCHA: Is it? Oh, okay. I thought my grandma was crazy.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: That's not made up. No, no, no.
JENNINGS: Granddad also put salt --
PHILLIP: Salty -- salty sweet. One hundred percent.
PHILLIP: Yeah. That's how you should eat watermelon.
CROSS: Yeah.
PHILLIP: Go ahead.
CROSS: Well, mine is maybe not so weird or uncommon, but hot sauce. I love all the extra sauce. I don't want to eat it if it's not smothered and covered. If you've ever gone out to eat with me, I always ask for extra sauce. I hate when they take forever to bring it because I want it while it's hot and warm. Hot sauce, Texas Pete, Cholula, Tabasco, all of it. I've never had anything too hot.
PHILLIP: Scott.
JENNINGS: Okay, first of all, you're beautiful. This food is beautiful. Don't take any anti-Kentucky crap off of Arthur because Kentucky is the best state.
PHILLIP: Okay. Quick, Scott.
JENNINGS: Everybody knows. I consulted a guy with Kentucky Living Magazine who says the most popular recipe is called Banana Croquettes, which is effectively bananas with Miracle Whip rolled in crushed peanuts. I've never had it, but they tell me back home, people go crazy for this. I don't know if you've had it not, but anyway.
PHILLIP: All right. Well, now that you all have lost your appetite. Everyone, thank you very much for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
