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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Celebrates Six Months With Spectacles, Distractions; Border Czar Says, ICE Will Flood The Zone Of Liberal Cities; Immigrant In U.S. Illegally Shoots Off-Duty Border Agent; "NewsNight" Panelists Debate On Whether American Economy Is Doing Well Or Not; Hunter Biden Rages Against Everyone From George Clooney To The Media; Malcolm-Jamal AKA Theo Dies At 54. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired July 21, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, Donald Trump celebrates six months in office by playing the hits while a rising number of Americans demand a new album.
Plus, after an immigrant here illegally shoots a border agent, the administration goes off on the man they helped dodge the law.
KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: You've got a mayor today that could have done better.
PHILLIP: Also, second verse, same as the first.
RUSSELL VOUGHT, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: The next two weeks are going to be weeks for the record books.
PHILLIP: When it comes to the White House and trade deals, more teasing than a first grade playground.
And --
HUNTER BIDEN, JOE BIDEN'S SON: George Clooney is not a (BLEEP) actor.
James Carville hasn't run a race in 40 (BLEEP) years.
The Pod Save America guys we're junior speechwriters.
PHILLIP: -- not a joke, folks. Hunter Biden's big mad.
Live at the table, Kevin O'Leary, Ana Kasparian, Angie Wong, Ahmed Baba, Adam Mockler and Michael Cohen.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York. Let's get right to what America is talking about, Donald Trump and the art of the conceal. The president is now exactly six months into his second term, and instead of his sagging poll numbers or the Epstein backlash, he'd rather everyone focus on pages from his go-to playbook, new tariffs on all copper imports and defunding Big Bird, Rosie O'Donnell's citizenship, and a fake video of Barack Obama being arrested. How about a name change for the Commanders or lose a stadium, Joe Biden and the autopen, the FBI records, not of Jeffrey Epstein, but of Martin Luther King Jr., mass deportations, Harvard funding, even playing legal analysts in the Idaho student murders. And, of course, the beginning, middle, and end of that playbook, Hillary Clinton's emails.
Joining us in our fifth seat at the table is Michael Cohen, host of the Mea Culpa Podcast, and at Real Michael Cohen on Substack.
Michael, is this a distraction or just who Trump is?
MICHAEL COHEN, HOST, MEA CULPA PODCAST: No, this is Trump. This is perfect Trump. Everything that he has said that he was going to do during the campaign, he's just doing. I mean, he is following the Project 2025 playbook. There's not anything that he has said that he has not at least put forth, whether it's an executive order or just by a mere statement.
PHILLIP: But all of this is happening at a moment when -- first of all, it's the weekend. So, we know what happens on the weekends with Trump. A lot of times, it's this, it's everything under the sun. But he is also trying to keep his base off of something that he doesn't want to talk about anymore, which is the Epstein files. And so instead, you get threats to private sports football team to change its name. Why?
ANGIE WONG, REPUBLICAN EXECUTIVE COMMITTEEWOMAN, MIAMI-DADE COUNTY: I know. I mean, and he's playing golf at the same time. This -- the Epstein problem is a problem that won't go away from him. He's trying to, you know, pivot every which way he can. We're seeing it all on the news right now. But he did ask Pam Bondi, go ahead, release the files, get, you know, the judges to sign off on it.
So, I think they're coming, you know, but right now he's got a keep the momentum going. He's winning, winning, winning. He's been winning for the last six months. I mean, the guy doesn't sleep ever, right? We've got a big, beautiful bill. We've got a closed-ish border and we've got a reversal of the Biden-Harris agenda and economy, I mean, cheap gas. What else do you want?
ANA KASPARIAN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER AND HOST, THE YOUNG TURKS: Well, I mean, look, I think that he is a man of spectacle and he is, I agree with Abby in that he's going to the same old playbook. Really, we're talking about Rosie O'Donnell. Rosie O'Donnell, is that what we're going to talk about right now? Like it's insane.
Like I just think his focus on nonsense right now is meant to appease his base. But you got to keep in mind that he built a very fragile coalition to win in this past election. We're talking about independent voters, disaffected Democrats. He's already lost them. You can see it in his approval rating. But when it comes to his core base, there is a significant split because what put him on the map for these voters, this commentary about the deep state.
[22:05:08]
The Jeffrey Epstein files represents the deep state for these individuals, and he did, and certainly the members of his administration promise that they were going to release it until they didn't.
AHMED BABA, FOUNDER, AHMEDBABA.NEWS: That's spot on. I wrote an article about that today. The fundamental deal Trump made with his base was that he was going to root out this. This mysterious cabal of elites that were running things and they were keeping you down, enriching themselves and hiding what's really going on, right? And a key part of this became the, these Epstein files, right?
And, obviously, there was QAnon and these other conspiratorial thinking that came along. But, essentially, what he's proving is that he actually is one of these corrupt elites himself, right? Not only with this Epstein refusal to, you know, drop these files. He's not actually releasing the files. He's doing the grand jury testimony, which isn't all of the files. But my point is, overall, is that while he's doing this, he's simultaneously raising prices on Americans via tariffs. He's simultaneously cutting -- well, let me just finish. He's cutting --
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN, O'LEARY VENTURES: (INAUDIBLE) damn of Epstein because he's still dead, okay? He's still dead. No one gives a damn.
KASPARIAN: No people give a damn.
O'LEARY: What they care about -- look at the American economy right now. A lot of people had a lot of mistrust on the tariff issue. The economy's on fire. Index is all time highs. Every country on Earth wants to cut a deal with America. The average person at the kitchen table is not worrying about Epstein, don't give a damn. They want to provide for their family, and they are. America's working. So, this is the America --
PHILLIP: Hold on. Let me just say --
KASPARIAN: Jerome Powell just announced that he's going to hold off on cutting interest rates again.
O'LEARY: Who cares?
KASPARIAN: Because of the tariffs and we've already started to see the inflationary pressures.
PHILLIP: We have a lot more on the economy later in the show. But just one thing that you said, Kevin, that I think is, you know --
O'LEARY: Epstein's alive? PHILLIP: No. There are two aspects of it. I mean, I think on the one hand, I think you're right that it's kind of like a niche interest here, this Epstein thing, but the niche is Trump's base, people in Trump's base. But, secondly, on the broader picture of what is happening in the country and how do Americans feel about it, CBS/YouGov poll asked how do you think things are going here in this country? 61 percent said, very or somewhat badly. That's not exactly a great indictment of the Trump economy.
And then on top of that, to what I was saying earlier on the Epstein files, this is what Republicans want, 83 percent want the files released. So, I think both of those things is part of why Trump is having a hard time right now.
O'LEARY: Abby, I hope they release it. They'll still be dead.
PHILLIP: Yes. And he will still be dead.
O'LEARY: He's going to be dead for a long time.
PHILLIP: But Trump lives and dies on his base. And the base right now is -- they're unsteady.
COHEN: I don't understand why he hasn't released the files. As he said, it's one of the reasons I believe that they released today the files on Martin Luther King Jr. Because now he's able to show, hey, look, I told you I was going to release the MLK file, the JFK file, and also the Epstein file.
It's going to take a little bit of time. I don't know the reason why. Personally, I don't think people are going to find Donald in that file as much as they think that they're going to. That's just my personal opinion, kind of knowing him for a decade-and-a-half.
Nevertheless, I want to see the file. I am sick and tired of all of the conspiracy theories that are popping up. If you are a detractor, yes, he's guilty of something. If you are a supporter, he didn't do anything, this is all nonsense. How about just put the documents in front of the American people, release it, and let us then examine the documents, as we call it in law documentary evidence. It'll speak for itself instead of listening to all the nonsense.
KASPARIAN: I would love for them to release the files. I am not at all in Trump's base. However, I care deeply about it because I'm not going to buy this argument that like these young girls were raped by what? Did they rape themselves? No. They got raped by people who are in powerful positions. And I want to know how many of those individuals are currently serving in our government in some role, or the other.
O'LEARY: An average American awake for 18 hours a day. How many minutes do you think they spend worrying about this stuff? Maybe they were raped, maybe they weren't. This is not what American families give a damn about.
PHILLIP: Just to be clear, we do know that there were victims. So, that's not speculative. BABA: We do know that there were victims and the thing is people can compartmentalize, right? And the reason why people care about this a lot, not just because of the very real Jeffrey Epstein sex trafficking and the crimes that were committed, it is the fact that Donald Trump himself spent years. Him and his allies promised their base, we are going to deliver the Epstein client list that's going to take down all of your Democratic enemy.
O'LEARY: Bring it.
BABA: Well, yes, bring it, Donald. Please, Donald, bring it.
O'LEARY: Nobody gives a poop.
[22:10:00]
KASPARIAN: You don't give a poop, okay? Other people do, including people like me who want justice, and I want to know how many of those people are in government.
O'LEARY: Nobody gives a poop.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: A lot of Republicans do. I mean, look on the MLK files, I mean, it's interesting because the family did not want this released in this way. And Bernice King, Dr. King's daughter, posted this on X just a little while ago. Now, do the Epstein files, as she says, with a photo of her father, because, you know, Trump's argument on the Epstein files is that, oh, you know, people might get hurt by what's in this. He didn't seem to be that concerned about that when it came to the MLK files.
WONG: No. But, Abby, they did warn the family that these things are coming down the pipeline and it's going to be released tomorrow. Aveda King came out in support of this, right? But she loves --
PHILLIP: She's a Trump supporter.
WONG: She is a Trump supporter, but she was pure, like, yes, transparency all day long, let's go.
So, you know, so maybe the family split on this idea that these files are going to get released. Ultimately, I do want to know, you know, who killed or -- well, we know who killed him, which is --
PHILLIP: Listen I'm not suggesting that it should remain secret forever because there was a date by which this would be released. But the timing of this very moment, I think her implication here is that it is being used as a tool to distract.
COHEN: Everything in politics is used as a tool. I mean, we have to be -- for example, they turn around, they show this photo of Donald Trump's birthday card to Jeffrey Epstein. Is that not being used as a tool? Again, if you are a Trump supporter saying, what does it mean? It's nothing to do with. It's not -- there's no evidence, there is no criminality. If you are a detractor, yes, this just goes and it shows proof positive that Donald Trump was somehow involved in this thing.
You know, I keep saying, and people get angry at me, oh, why are you taking a knee? Why are you kissing Donald's ring? No, I'm not. I'm not defending him. I'm stating a fact that in the decade-and-a-half that I was by the man's side. I never saw him doodle once. He's just not a doodler me. I write on the paper. He didn't write --
PHILLIP: There are a lot of images that Donald Trump drew.
COHEN: And none of those was drawn by him, by the way.
PHILLIP: So, who drew them?
COHEN: I won't say, but I have two (INAUDIBLE).
PHILLIP: All right. So, that's some news here that he auctioned off photos that he signed as his images that he did not draw.
COHEN: Well, a lot of artists, I guess --
PHILLIP: I'm just being clear. But the other --
O'LEARY: If all this stuff's true, does that, in any way, affect the American economy on what's going on?
KASPARIAN: There's more to life than the American economy. There's justice and the fact that we might have pedophiles serving in our government right now, as we speak.
O'LEARY: Oh my goodness, that's horrible.
KASPARIAN: Yes.
O'LEARY: I'm just saying what people care about is how to feed their families and how the economy grows and take care of their futures. This stuff is poop on a stick. Nobody gives -- I got to --
BABA: If we want to talk economy, which we will, what is Trump doing other than providing absolute uncertainty, injecting all of this into the market? We have the bond markets here trying to wonder whether or not the debt that's coming from the big, beautiful bill --
O'LEARY: Epstein, dead guy matters? No, he is dead.
BABA: Tell that to his base.
O'LEARY: I guarantee he's dead tomorrow morning.
BABA: Tell that to the victims in his base.
COHEN: It's his base that actually wants it even more than the Democrat. See, now, what happens is the base is screaming for the documents. They're not getting it. All of a sudden, the Democrats, of course, they're jumping into it and saying, hey, release it, release it, release it. And then the Republicans are now all on message saying the same thing, which is, well, you never wanted it before. Now, all of a sudden, you want it now. How about just do the right thing, do the easy thing, and then just release the file.
PHILLIP: One quick thing for you, Michael. I mean, Trump sometimes overreacts to things like this. You don't think that the files probably have that much to do with Trump. Is he overreacting?
COHEN: You know, I think he's getting bad advice from people that are within his circle. They're probably feeding to him, hey, you know, this could be damaging in this way. I believe he should just release the files, put an end to the conspiracy theories around it, and then let's just all move on.
KASPARIAN: Agreed.
WONG: Agreed.
PHILLIP: Well, there you go.
O'LEARY: Agreed.
PHILLIP: All right. And with that, Michael Cohen, thank you very much joining us.
Up next for us, though, the Trump administration is threatening to flood liberal cities with ICE raids. That's after a border agent was shot in New York City. Another special guest is going to join us at the table.
Plus, another day, another promise of an explosion of trade deals, and yet another day and no trade deals. We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, escalating deportation threats after an off-duty Border Patrol agent officer was shot in New York City by an alleged undocumented immigrant with a lengthy criminal record. Donald Trump's border czar says the sanctuary cities can expect to see more agents in their streets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: Cities are sanctuaries for criminals. And I'm going to work very hard with Secretary Noem to keep President Trump's promise and his commitment several weeks ago that sanctuary cities are now our priority. We're going to flood the zone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: While Americans largely back enforcing immigration laws for criminals living in the U.S. illegally, new numbers from CNN show they largely oppose targeting those who've lived here for years without any convictions.
Joining us at the table is Adam Mockler, MeidasTouch's Gen-Z creator. This is the moment that the type of dichotomy that I think is playing out here. On the one hand, it's completely uncontroversial for these suspects, because there were two of them to be apprehended, deported if they were here in the country illegally.
[22:20:08]
But on the other hand, Americans are also saying we want this to be more targeted. But the Trump administration is definitely going to use this incident to pursue what they're doing right now, which is mass deportation.
ADAM MOCKLER, GEN-Z CREATOR, MEIDASTOUCH: Yes. First of all, the shooting is absolutely horrific, and every American should be okay with deporting people who are criminals and who are dangerous and here illegally, but that is not what the Trump administration is prioritizing. They have reallocated funds meant for the deportation of criminals to the deportation of farm workers, farmers have been complaining about this directly to Donald Trump, to people who are showing up to immigration hearings. They show up to their hearing and they get directly targeted. ICE is camping there. Or what about the 82-year-old who his family was told he was dead and he was found in Argentina?
Trump's popularity on immigration has dropped ten points over the past few months, and 70 percent of Americans want him to focus more on lowering prices, but he's deporting farm workers and acting more tariffs. It's not popular.
PHILLIP: Kevin, is there more targeting that could happen here that is actually responsive to what Americans say that they want?
O'LEARY: I agree with this narrative between those that have committed crimes, documented crimes multiple times, versus a farm worker who's been here for 20 years illegally, but is -- maintained his ability to work and provide productivity to the economy. This is a very delicate situation. And I think it's threading the needle for Trump because he has said the same thing. Look, if you've worked on a farm and you've been -- you know, haven't been charged with anything and you're providing productivity to the economy, maybe we should work something out there.
And this is where I think the challenge is. You talked about his polls dropping on this. I kind of agree with this. If you're a criminal and you've been charged, you're out of here. I think everybody agrees with that. But if you've actually come into the country and been here a long time, had children here that are American citizens and you provided productivity to the economy and you're supporting farming, which is one of the categories or, you know, sectors where there's a lot of these people, I kind of get it.
PHILLIP: And then just to be clear, I mean, I think that it's farm workers, but people who work in restaurants, household and domestic employees. They're also -- they're inputting productivity into this economy, and they're actually maybe a larger chunk of the undocumented --
O'LEARY: What you're talking about is American compassion here. That's what's going on, right? And I think we all agree with that.
KASPARIAN: I have to jump in because there's some context that I think people need to know about that doesn't get discussed enough, which is, look, the Democratic Party obviously is the opposition to Trump, so they want to go against everything he wants to do. One of the issues right now is if ICE calls for a detainer of a convicted felon, someone who has been convicted of a crime, they're serving their time. ICE just wants like municipalities, local police to detain that person, hold them so ICE can come get them and then deport them. But sanctuary cities --
O'LEARY: Are you cool with that? Are you okay with that?
KASPARIAN: I am definitely okay with that. If they've been convicted of a crime, yes, you should hold onto that individual so ICE can detain them and then deport them. But sanctuary cities, not all, it depends on which municipality you're talking about, but in Los Angeles, for instance, there -- local authorities are not allowed based on the sanctuary laws to cooperate with federal agents, including ICE. So, they don't abide by the -- I think it's called a detainer, right? When ICE calls for detainer, local authorities just release the person after they serve their time.
PHILLIP: So, this is really important and I'm glad you brought this up, because we talk about sanctuary cities a lot but there are some nuances here. And there is a difference between saying to local authorities, if someone shows up and reports a crime and they happen to be undocumented, you hand them over. And what Ana's talking about, which is actually I think a lot of people would think is common sense. I mean, are Democrats, in this case, one of the -- at least one of these individuals had exactly what she's talking about, a detainer, are Democrats missing the ball here in terms of these sanctuary laws being so broad that they prevent law enforcement from getting violent people off the streets?
BABA: Yes. I mean, I think what you can do is be smart about it, right? If you create a system that identifies someone like this, 100 percent should not have been here, right? And they should have been totally given up and deported, right? But the problem overall that's happening is that I think sometimes they're doing this in resistance to the broader efforts, because the context that's happening, we've been talking about here with ICE just going wholesale, detaining, I think the most recent ICE numbers I saw in June. So, the majority of those who are detained currently do not have criminal records.
[22:25:00]
We have that situation going on. And then there's just the broader context.
I think Democrats should make that narrow carve out for criminals, but also I think they need to tell the positive story of immigration generally. There's just all these stats. Every time I mention that undocumented immigrants pay up to a hundred billion in annual taxes, every single time I talk about it, someone around me is, oh, I didn't know, right? PHILLIP: Well, let me -- Angie, let me -- I want to let you get in, but I want to play what Kristi Noem said when reporters asked her specifically about when they go to the courthouses and they pick people up, are you not undermining what you say is an effort to make the streets safer by getting actual criminals off the street?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: We've seen outside immigration court here in New York City, people still with pending green card claims, pending asylum claims are grabbed right outside of court.
Are you not undercutting your own argument when you arrest those other?
NOEM: Absolutely not. What we're doing is we're targeting, and those individuals that are perpetuators of crimes in this country, those who have final removal orders, those who have undergone due process and are needing to be removed from this country, we will do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I mean, those two things cannot be true at the same time.
WONG: Well, you have to understand, Kristi Noem is giving a pathway for the illegals to become citizens. They're saying, here's $1,000, deport yourself, come back in the right way. Look, my husband had to do it. My husband had to wait. We waited nine years for his green card, and he just got naturalized last November, right? So, why do we have to wait in line? Why do these guys just bum rush in and get all our benefits and take from our blue cities?
My big problem with Los Angeles is that you have local mayors there giving the heads-up to communities saying, hey, there's an ICE raid coming. You better leave and let's get the rioters in. That's not what an elected official should do.
KASPARIAN: And not detaining or abiding by the detainer when someone's been convicted of a crime. I think they should at least cooperate with that and have that carve out. As you mentioned earlier, I think that carve out makes a lot more sense.
MOCKLER: I want to respond to Angie saying this gives a path. What this does is disincentivize people from going to the courthouse and following the proper procedures. And part of the reason they're being so aggressive is because of this arbitrary quota set by Stephen Miller, 3,000 a day, meaning people who are going to courthouses being detained, being deported, again, workers, people who are contributing to this country. So do you think it's okay when somebody who is following the proper processes is then kind of hoodwink?
WONG: Not if they came in here illegally in the first place, right?
MOCKLER: It's not like they came through asylum process.
BABA: But that's the thing. That's the thing. They're criminalizing asylum. That's what's happened, right? Trump has criminalized --
WONG: Oh, no.
BABA: Yes, actually. TRUMP has criminalized the legal process of asylum. Basically, if you come here and you are abiding, right, you're showing up to court because you're following the rules.
PHILLIP: There are also hundreds of thousands of people who had temporary protective status that were overnight, had their status revoked. And, I mean, that created people who -- the Trump administration now says this are illegal, but they came here through a legal process as well.
MOCKLER: So, they're doing the reverse of what Angie was saying. By giving a path, they're actually removing the path for people that are already here.
WONG: I think she's saying something very, very clear. If you self- deport and come back in, file the right way. We're going to give you a ticket. We're going to give you $1,000. Do it the right way. Wait in line.
O'LEARY: What we need is modification to the curation process between who is a defined criminal, charged, they're out, we've all agreed on that, versus ones that are productive to the American economy. That curation does not exist yet. Modification to the policy makes sense. And that may be a bipartisan idea. Who knows?
PHILLIP: I mean, it would only be if Trump wanted it to be. But right now, clearly, he does not.
We have to leave this one here. Everyone, stay with me, though.
Coming up next, they're promising -- they keep promising, but the trade deals, they just are not coming. Is the White House taking Americans for fools? We'll debate. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:33:30]
PHILLIP: We are two weeks from the new deadline for nations to make trade deals or face new tariffs, and the Commerce Secretary is once again promising he's got the goods.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Oh, they're going to love the deals that President Trump and I are doing. I mean they're just going to love them. This is going to be -- the next two weeks are going to be weeks for the record books. President Trump is going to deliver for the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: The President has been saying he has 200 deals ready to sign, but the truth is the results have been limited at best. And the amount of teasing is a trend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: You're going to see over the next month or so, we're going to roll out dozens of deals. Oh, there are so many coming and you're going to see deal after deal that's going to start coming next week, and the week after and the week after. And we've got lots of them in the hopper. We're going to announce a whole bunch of deals over the next week or so.
UNKNOWN: Are you confident we can get these big, the big ones, the big deals done?
LUTNICK: I have them done. The next two weeks are going to be weeks for the record books.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That was just a couple days ago. So far, only four trade agreements have been announced. Kevin, when are the deals coming?
O'LEARY: Bassett tempered the enthusiasm from Japan over the weekend at the American Pavilion and he spoke again this morning about this. He referenced, I want quality deals, not fast deals.
PHILLIP: Do you mind if I play it? We have the sound bite.
O'LEARY: OK, let's listen.
PHILLIP: Let's play -- Scott Bassett.
[22:35:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE KERNEN, CNBC HOST: Mr. Secretary, August 1st is a week from Friday, I think. And I think that's on everyone's mind. Any progress that you can report on some of our big trading partners?
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: Joe, talks are -- talks are moving along, but the important thing here is the quality of the deal, not the timing of the deals. You know, again, again, we're -- we're proceeding at pace with the negotiations, but we're -- we're not going to rush for the sake of doing deals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'LEARY: Abby, let me give you the metric on all this stuff.
PHILLIP: I mean, it just sounds like those things are contrary --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- to be honest -- to be quite honest.
(CROSSTALK) O'LEARY: Let me just tell you what the market's thinking is. Sovereign wealth is thinking, and capital comes from America's thinking. Most countries around the world have a value added tax, a consumption tax. Canada, Australia, Switzerland, E.U. So, you buy something in France, they charge you 13 percent on it. An American tire bought in France --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: -- thirteen percent. So, what's going to happen here at the end of the day, and the market believes this, I believe this, too, is that reciprocal tax will equal the VAT tax. Trump can't sell a consumption tax in America to Congress, but he can sell a tariff.
PHILLIP: But the point is the deals are not happening.
O'LEARY: I got it.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I mean, I think that's really important because Trump announced --
UNKNOWN: There is one deal.
PHILLIP: -- Trump announced a whole spate of tariffs that go all the way up to like 50 percent that will go into place on August 1st. That is happening.
KASPARIAN: Yes.
PHILLIP: Potentially. Or at least he claims it's happening. I don't know.
KASPARIAN: Let's talk about the culmination of the deals that Trump made with Vietnam in particular, right? So --
O'LEARY: And Indonesia.
KASPARIAN: OK. You can talk about Indonesia. I'm going to talk about Vietnam.
O'LEARY: Thank you.
KASPARIAN: So, imports from Vietnam will be tariffed at 20 percent. Anything that was delivered to Vietnam and then shipped to the United States will be tariffed at 40 percent percent. How is exact --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: That's trying to use the Vietnamese --
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: Either way, those are extremely high tariffs and we use --
O'LEARY: Focus on the 20. (CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: But 20 percent is a lot and the consumer is going to pay for that tariff.
PHILLIP: Looks like --
KASPARIAN: It's a tax.
PHILLIP: Just pay attention to the numbers. Pay attention to that number.
MOCKLER: How can you say we should pay attention to the quality rather than the speed when the entire promise was 90 deals in 90 days. They were going to get in and fast, reshape the global order. And Kevin says the stock market thinks these tariffs are going to work, but no, the stock market doesn't believe Trump. When he announced the Liberation Day tariffs --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: It's an all-time heightening.
MOCKLER: -- the stock market immediately dropped when he announced Liberation Day tariffs.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Where are today?
MOCKLER: After he vacillated, people don't believe him.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: All-time high in all-time history.
(CROSSTALK)
MOCKLER: Countries don't believe him because nobody believes that he is being serious.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: All-time high --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I think you guys are saying the same thing just by the way.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: All-time high, Abby.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I mean, there are -- there are -- (CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: All-time high.
PHILLIP: I think his point is that --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- they -- I know. His point is that they are an all-time high because nobody believes Trump.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Every index.
(CROSSTALK)
BABA: Because he keeps -- he keeps moving the goalpost. I'm so glad you played the footage. I was literally laughing watching Howard just like going every few weeks promising all these deals. And Bessent should have sent that and should have been an appearance, should have sent that as a text message directly to Howard Lutnick because that was clearly what that guy needs to hear.
But overall, the reason why he's not getting these deals -- I just think we got to talk about the big picture here. If you're a -- if you're a foreign government, ally or adversary, or counterpart, whatever, are you going to make a deal with Donald Trump? And how can you believe that the U.S. is not going to have a sporadic change three years from now? I think Trump has eroded global trust in the American economy and American deal-making.
O'LEARY: You mean, the all-time high market ever in history, in America?
(CROSSTALK)
BABA: It's high because they don't believe --
O'LEARY: The all-time high?
BABA: They think Trump is going to --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Never been worth more. Never been more successful. Never. And it's eroded world trust. All-time high. Today at 4:30 in history, never worth more. What are you talking about?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, look. The American --
(CROSSTALK)
BABA: Let's -- let's see what happens in August 1st when he announces the country up to 50 percent in tariff.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: The American people are also --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: The American people are also in a situation that you're kind of describing, which is that Trump says, I'm going to do X, Y, and Z, and they say, don't believe you, sorry. I mean, is he just sort of -- the economy is supposed to be his biggest issue. It's a thing that he did the best on in his first term. Now, he's getting really low marks on it because of this tariff issue.
WONG: No, no, he's -- he's completely turned around the Biden-Harris economy. Look, when you have America First trade deals, that, by definition means that someone's going to come second. So, let's take Japan. They just have their upper house elections where they lost.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I -- I -- can I just quibble? Like, I have to quibble with that one, too, because the idea that trade is a zero sum game is not -- no, not everybody agrees with that, OK? That might be Trump's view of it, but that is not the view of trade. When you look across the history of globalization, we have won and so have other countries. It's not a zero sum game.
WONG: But here's the thing. Japan can't make these deals when they have a snap election coming up in September, right? Right now, these deals do not benefit them because it benefits America. America first, Japanese second. So, that's why all of this takes time. It's not just -- whatever he wants.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: So, here's -- here's what Americans say about -- here's what Americans say about all of this.
[22:40:00]
Is Trump focusing enough on -- on the economy or on tariffs? They say too much on tariffs, 61 percent. The majority of Americans oppose tariffs on imported goods, just about the same percentage, 60 percent. That's a pretty lopsided assessment of that particular issue and this idea that Trump is not focusing enough on the thing that he was elected on, which is the cost of their daily lives.
O'LEARY: And a huge problem here with this argument. Your investment account is worth more tonight at 4:30 than it's ever been in history.
KASPARIAN: Kevin, you got to look outside of your own perspective.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: No, I don't because I'm right. I'm 100 percent -- (CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: Most Americans are not heavily invested into stock market. Most Americans are barely making ends meet.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Thank -- thank goodness I'm here to bring reality to these guys.
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: OK, this is wonderful. You're doing well. You're heavily invested in the stock market.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Every American is.
KASPARIAN: No, every American isn't.
(CROSSTALK)
BABA: It's high today but the stock market has been existing in the volatility of Trump's mind. What he decides to do one day shifts and moves the markets to centiminutes everywhere, the uncertainty talk to any actual investment bank or someone who's actually making long-term decisions, they can't. Our foreign adversaries, our counterparts, they can't. They don't know whether or not in the next three years, J.D. Vance will tear off --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Whatever he's doing it, keep doing it because it's working.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: So, actually Kevin, you know, I was going to just say that very thing, which is that it seems like what you really like about what Trump is doing right now is that he's not doing what he said he's going to do.
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
UNKNOWN: Good point.
O'LEARY: Abby, in the end of the day --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I mean, at the end of the day, that is what has gotten --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- That's what -- that's what has gotten us where we are.
O'LEARY: Oh, no, no, no. I don't want to talk soccer. I want to talk about the American at the kitchen table putting their child in --
(CROSSTALK)
MOCKLER: So, are you going to say that tariffs aren't --
(CROSSTALK)
BABA: Consumer sentiment is down.
O'LEARY: All I'm saying is this tariff stuff and all this narrative, it's going to end up being reciprocal tariffs between countries, equal tariffs between E.U., Canada, Australia, India, Vietnam, Indonesia. All we are saying is let's make it equal. And I think the market believes that. You may not, but meanwhile the index that matters, the wealth of an American savings account, you can't win your argument tonight at 4:30. I'm sorry. It's already been decided by fact.
PHILLIP: All right, Adam, last word.
O'LEARY: You lost.
MOCKLER: If tariffs worked, Trump wouldn't have to gaslight the American people about who paid the tariff in the first place, and you wouldn't have to pivot to the stock market every single time we try to bring up the on-the-ground effects, the unpredictability that tariffs create. Think about the long-term effects for my generation. Can you sit here and look me in the eye and say that tariffs are not inflationary?
O'LEARY: Are you kidding?
MOCKLER: I'm not kidding.
O'LEARY: Right now, everything's working because the market --
(CROSSTALK)
MOCKLER: Oh, bring up the market one more time, one more time. Pivot right there.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Kevin --
O'LEARY: The market is the American economy.
PHILLIP: But Kevin --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: It was a super simple question --
O'LEARY: Which is?
PHILLIP: Are tariffs inflationary or not?
O'LEARY: Not yet there haven't been.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I know but are they inflationary?
(CROSSTALK)
BABA: 2.7 percent --
KASPARIAN: Data from June shows that prices have gone up. There's a little bit of inflation which informed Jerome Powell, head of the Federal Reserve --
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: Let me finish my point. Let me finish my point. It informed Jerome Powell's decision to hold off on cutting interest rates. People are unable to buy homes because mortgages are far more expensive.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: You know what I'm beginning to learn? You guys hate numbers.
KASPARIAN: No, no, I don't hate numbers.
(LAUGHTER)
KASPARIAN: I actually love numbers.
O'LEARY: You hate numbers.
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: I'll say something. I'll say something --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: I bring you numbers. You hate them.
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: I'll say something positive about Trump. I'll say something positive about his tariff policy.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Last word, Ana.
KASPARIAN: In his first term, he was way smarter about tariffs. They were targeted. They were smart. They were so good that Biden came in. He kept them in place and even expanded upon them. But what Trump did by slapping on these insanely high tariffs this like coercive thing with every country we do trade with, think about it. If I were one of those countries, how about we band together and refuse to make good deals with Trump?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right, we got to leave it there.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Look, I have bad news for all of you. I invest in a lot of small companies, five to five hundred employees. We're going to have our best quarter in history. We're going to make 17 and a half percent pre-tax (inaudible). We're going make 15. Whatever he's doing, keep doing it.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Kevin, I'm glad -- I'm glad that you're doing extremely well. Everyone, stick around. Coming up next for us, Hunter Biden unfiltered. We're going to discuss what he says and who he blames in his profanity-laced rant.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:48:47]
PHILLIP: It's been a year since Joe Biden dropped out of the 2024 race and his son is angry. In a new interview, Hunter Biden rages against everyone from George Clooney to the media. Now, we have to warn you the language in here is F-rated. Again, not hyperbole folks. Hide the kids Put on the earmuffs, but listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUNTER BIDEN, PRESIDENT BIDEN'S SON: (EXPLICIT) him and everybody around him. I don't have to be (EXPLICIT) nice. Number one, I agree with Quentin Tarantino. (EXPLICIT) George Clooney is not a (EXPLICIT) actor. He is a (EXPLICIT), like, I don't know what he is. He's a brand. And you know what George Clooney did? Because he sat down I guess because he was like given a blessing by the Obama team or the Obama people and whoever else, and David Axelrod and whoever the (EXPLICIT) else is to go, okay, yeah. You know what? We're going to -- we are going to insert our judgment over yours. We, me, and James Carville, who hasn't won a race in 40 (EXPLICIT) years. And David Axelrod who had one success in his political life and that was Barack Obama. And that was because of Barack Obama and not because of (EXPLICIT) D avid Axelrod. And David Plouffe and all of these guys in the pod "Save America" guys who were junior (EXPLICIT) speech writers in, you know, on Barack Obama's senate staff, who've been dying out on the -- the relationship with him for years, making millions of dollars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:50:11]
PHILLIP: That is, in fact, not a Quentin Tarantino movie. That is Hunter Biden.
WONG: I love this Hunter Biden. I love it. You know, the left has been looking for their version of Joe Rogan. I think they found him.
KASPARIAN: No.
WONG: I think they should have -- we give them a podcast studio. You guys, he's good. He's authentic.
KASPARIAN: No, no way. I just -- I need -- I need the Bidens to maybe grow a little bit of humility and go away. OK, your father has prostate cancer. He like totally face planted during a debate. He shouldn't have run for reelection. Kamala Harris got shafted by having to run a three-month election. The Democratic voters got shafted by not getting an opportunity to participate in a real, you know, primary process. The Bidens need to go away. Period.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Can I just play real quick what Hunter said about that disastrous debate performance?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I know exactly what happened in that debate. He flew around the world basically, the mileage that he could have flown around the world three times.
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
BIDEN: He's 81 years old. He's tired as shit (ph). They give him Ambient to be able to sleep. He gets up on the stage and he looks like he's a deer in the headlights.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Not helpful. I'm not sure that that is very helpful to former President Biden.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Think about Joe Biden as a servant for all those years, a phenomenal public servant, the last four a little tough. If that was my son, I'd beat him with a stick. The disrespect that he's giving to his family, the trashing of the Biden brand. I don't agree with Biden's policies, but I respect him for his long service.
He was a phenomenal politician for a long time. The end was bad, but this, this is, I mean, I'm outraged at him. If that was my son --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: In a way -- in a way --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I would take him behind the barn and I beat him with a stick.
MOCKLER: OK. PHILLIP: I mean, you can't be surprised, though.
O'LEARY: I'm serious.
PHILLIP: This is the same Hunter Biden who, I mean, half of Joe Biden's problems in his presidency were linked to Hunter's actions.
MOCKLER: Yeah, it's incredibly unfortunate. And I think that, what he's saying, the messenger may be wrong, but a lot of people aren't happy with some of the Democratic elites. So, there is a grain of truth to what he's saying.
PHILLIP: But is the problem the Democratic elites? Or is the problem that Joe Biden did not know that it was time for him to step off the stage?
MOCKLER: I think those two are correlated. I mean, Joe Biden didn't know because the Democratic elites were -- encircled him.
PHILLIP: Or because his people like Hunter Biden thought that this was all just talk and he should continue?
MOCKLER: Yeah, that's fair. I think that overall, when I look at the polling, especially among my generation, people are not happy with the status quo, with the establishment, and Biden represented that. Hunter Biden sort of is making it worse. And a lot of the people that he named, I think I have a lot of respect for, but I understand when people want new faces behind the scenes.
BABA: I mean, I just -- it's just overall, every time this whole situation is just sad to me. It's just like, you know, Hunter, you've already -- you've been through so much. You've caused a lot of trouble for Joe and Joe right now has cancer, right? That's kind of the thing going on looming over this. And meanwhile, his son, he's clearly crashing out. He's not feeling great right now.
(CROSSTALK)
WONG: Could it be that he's defending him?
BABA: No, he's trying to defend his dad.
O'LEARY: What about this disrespect? What about that?
BABA: I mean, it's, don't know if -- he thinks he's defending Joe. He thinks that he's going out there and defending Joe against this, you know, like you're saying --
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: Yeah, but by describing how he couldn't handle the pressures of the job, like he was on Ambient, like, OK. Well, the President of the United States needs to be available 24-7. If there's some sort of emergency in the middle of the night and the president's on Ambient, that's a problem. WONG: The Trump administration is pulling in members of the Biden
White House and having them testify over Joe Biden's cognitive abilities, right? And here he is, he's talking real things. He was tired. This is my dad. We had to give him ambience so he could sleep and then he had to get up the next day and do a big debate with President Trump. You know, so I actually really like this version of Hunter Biden. I can't believe I'm saying this as a Republican.
KASPARIAN: I can't believe it either.
WONG: But he's so real. He's so real.
PHILLIP: All right, everybody. Thank you very much for that. Up next for us, a tribute to Malcolm-Jamal Warner, a man who helped change the face of American television.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILIP: An actor who grew up before America's eyes and helped grow America's portrayal of black families has sadly died. Malcolm-Jamal Warner drowned in Costa Rica after being swept by a current, we're told.
He was just 14 years old when "The Cosby Show" premiered and spent nearly a decade playing Theo Huxtable, a relatable and sometimes mischievous teen that America came to know and love. He went on to appear in dozens of other shows, but it was that role, Theo, that left a cultural mark, a mark that Warner once reflected on himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MALCOLM-JAMAL WARNER, ACTOR: The fact that "The Cosby Show" for Black America and White America alike, finally legitimized the black middle class which has always been around since the inception of this country.
[23:00:01]
But as with everything, it's not legitimate until it's on television. Because even when the show first came out, you know, there were, you know, white people and black people talking about the Huxtables don't really exist. Black people don't really live like that.
Meanwhile, we were getting tens of thousands of fan letters from people saying, thank you so much for the show.
(THEO HUXTABLE PERFORMING, SCENE FROM "THE COSBY SHOW")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Fifty-four years old. Malcolm-Jamal Warner was 54 years old. Rest in peace. And thank you very much for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" -- it starts right now.
