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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
National Guard Deployed In D.C. in Trump's Police Takeover; Maryland Governor Says, Trump Using Military For Political Purposes; Trump's Labor Stats Pick Suggests Suspending Jobs Report; Trump White House To Review Smithsonian Museums; Texas Democrats Discuss To End Standoff. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired August 12, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, squash, wince, repeat. After Donald Trump's provocative takeover of D.C. Police, are liberals falling into his track?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What he's doing is dog whistling through these right wing propaganda.
PHILLIP: Plus, as Texas Democrats consider returning from their power grab protest, an interview goes viral.
STATE REP. JAMES TALARICO (D-TX): You know the party of the governor that signed that map into law, he was a Republican.
PHILLIP: And a plea goes vulgar.
FMR. REP. BETO O'ROURKE (D-TX): Who cares about the (BLEEP) rules right now? Win some (BLEEP) power.
PHILLIP: Also, he fired the first one for dialing the wrong number. Now, the president's new pick to relay the jobs report suggests suspending them all together.
And America, Donald's version, the Smithsonian is getting an editor to tell the nation's story, not in the eyes of history, but in the eyes of Trump.
Live at the table, S.E. Cupp, Scott Jennings, Chuck Rocha, Arthur Aidala and Congressman Maxwell Frost.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York. Let's get right to what America's talking about. Does the nation's capital look like a war zone or a safe zone? Tonight, the Rorschach test applies to the streets of Washington, D.C., as National Guard troops are now walking the streets as part of President Trump's takeover of the city's police force.
Now, by most metrics, crime has been going down in D.C. but, does that matter if people don't feel safe. That is what the White House is banking on to justify its dramatic move. So, when it comes to facts or feelings, is there room for both in this conversation?
Tonight, we're seeing the National Guard troops on the National Mall, which I should note is not where the crime is in Washington, D.C. But, S.E., wrote something, you know, provocative on your Substack about whether you think Democrats are sort of falling into a trap here of Donald Trump's making?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I think a few things can be true. One is that I think he's using this issue to distract for some other things. That doesn't mean it's a bad political strategy. I think it's a very good one. And the numbers can be what they are, but also people don't feel that way. And when it comes to two things, crime and the economy, feelings don't really care about your facts.
And I can't tell you how profoundly stupid it is for Democrats to get up with their facts and their figures and their charts and their graphs and say, look, you're safe. Can't you read this chart, idiots? Why are you complaining? I'm showing you right here how safe you are. So, shut up and move along. I don't have to tell you how profoundly stupid that is, because voters told you how profoundly stupid that was in 2024 when Democrats said, see these economic numbers? The economy's great. What are you complaining about? See these crime numbers, crime's down, you're safe. See these immigration numbers? Obama deported way more. There's no migrant crisis.
I can't tell you enough that politics is perception and the numbers can be right, but you never tell voters they're wrong about how they feel.
PHILLIP: Congressman?
REP. MAXWELL FROST (D-FL): I actually agree with some of what you said. I think it's really important to never tell people the way that the way they feel is invalid. And I think that was a mistake that a lot of Democrats made the last election, especially as they traveled the country. We knew that on paper the economy was growing, but the fact of the matter is when the economy is set like this and the wealth and equality is so horrible in this country. Even when the economy grows, it grows like that. And then the working class and people at the bottom don't feel it as much. And that's why we have to, you know, work on bold, transformational change so people actually feel it at home.
But as to what's going on in D.C., I got to tell you the facts and the figures do show that crime has been going down, that gun violence has been going down in this country, but people are still saying that they don't feel safe. And the truth is that we have a lot of work to do, especially as it relates to gun violence. The issue that is the reason I got involved in politics at 15 years old because I didn't want to get shot in school. I never thought it would hit my community. 49 people died at Pulse nightclub. And three months after that, I survived gun violence on the streets of Orlando. So, it's a very personal thing for me.
What I think is important is, you know, in front of us, is this all- or-nothing thing? Oh, well, either you dismiss the feelings or you say you're right, and then make D.C. into a police state. And I got to tell you, I'm texting people on the streets of DC right now, people who live there who are saying, I don't feel safe. I'm scared. Now, I'm just kind of scared to go outside. There's a path here that's neither of these, and it's looking at we understand that you don't feel safe.
[22:05:01]
We understand that there's still work to do. Let's look at what we've done, how far it's taken us, and say we have even more to go here. And the fact of the matter is, and violence has been going down, violence has been going down, but we have a lot more to do. And I think we can do both at the same time.
PHILLIP: Before I let you in, Arthur, I mean, look, on both the facts, the statistics and the feelings based on polling, it looks like, first of all, D.C. residents believe that crime is a serious problem, that that's unquestionable. About half of them say it's very serious, and then another 41 percent say it's moderately serious.
But then when you ask them whether it's getting bad, better, worse, or staying the same, most say it's either staying the same, so plateauing or getting better, only 28 percent say it's getting worse. So, they are -- these are people who live in the District of Columbia. They are worried about their own safety, but they also recognize that things are changing from the high of the worst part in 2023 and the COVID years.
AIDALA: The one statistic that any law enforcement agency cannot play around with is the murder rate, right? Because there's a dead body, you can't hide that. You know, people don't report robberies, people don't report rapes, but murders, for the most part, get reported. The murder rate in D.C. over the last couple of years is much higher than it was -- I think it's doubled from 2021 to 2024. It's averaging 200 murders a year, whereas 2011 to 2014, it was 98 murders was the average. So, that matters because of what we were talking about perception. When you're reading the newspaper and you're reading about people getting killed, that's very troublesome.
In terms of whether the National Guard should be doing this or the Washington, D.C. Police, the Washington, D.C. Police haven't been living up to the task. They had 4,000 members at one point. Now, they have 3,200 members. That's a tremendous decrease. And I don't think that common citizen cares if it's -- who's protecting them. They just want to go out and be safe, and Donald Trump is saying, look, this local government's not doing it. This is D.C. This is where I live now and I'm going to do it. And as I said, I think if someone -- a robbery is prevented, or I spoke to police Commissioner Kelly from New York today, apparently there's a lot of carjackings going on in Washington, D.C.
PHILLIP: There were more, but that has also gone down.
AIDALA: But even, Abby, if it's one, it's one too many, right? We all live that way.
PHILLIP: I understand that. I'm just saying the carjacking problem has -- it was extremely acute a few years ago and it's improved.
AIDALA: But, again, good, better, best, never let it rest until the good gets better and the better gets best.
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, on the Democrats --
AIDALA: Excuse me?
FROST: Should we do it everywhere?
AIDALA: If it's necessary, if it was -- if local municipalities have failed. Look, if we don't fight crime, the other fights don't matter. So, the streets are clean, but you're afraid to go out, it doesn't matter. If the schools are treating kids excellently, but you're afraid to send your kid to school, it doesn't matter.
PHILLIP: So, what is the appropriate response, Chuck, from Democrats on this? Because, I mean, look, I actually have questions about whether -- I mean, the tactics will be the story here at the end of the day, or whether it will be the politics of how this is talked about.
CHUCK ROCHA, SUBSTACK, THE ROCHA REVOLUTION: This drives me crazy because I'm a Democrat who lives in the Porsche Ward in D.C. Our crime levels are higher than every other place in the city, and I live there every day. And crime is a problem in D.C. You hear it from a Democrat. Democrats, to S.E.'s point, in what you wrote today, I read what you wrote and I thought it was good, is like we take the bait every time. We can be for law and order and not kill unarmed black kids in the street all at the same time. But this military that's in the street is a whole different level of overreach where they take the bait every time.
I want to save the city. And Democrats should say they won't save cities without killing unarmed black boys in our city. You could do both of those things.
CUPP: But there's one solution, and I want Scott's opinion as well, of course, but let residents tell you they don't want the military there. Just like Trump overplays his hand. Democrats take the bait. Trump overplays. Trump overplayed with deportations. Voters were with him that immigration's a problem. It needs solving. He overplayed, the polling reflect that. Let citizens tell you, residents of D.C. say --
ROCHA: My neighbors are telling you that, S.E.
CUPP: No, that's what I mean. I'm saying don't, as Democrats, get up on T.V. and say, this isn't right. Let the residents say, we like that someone's solving the problem, this isn't the solution.
PHILLIP: Well, S.E., what do you want Democrats to say? Oh, it's fine, just bring the military in?
CUPP: Well, no, of course. But --
PHILLIP: I mean, if they don't and they're not the ones -- I mean, it sounds like what a lot of Democrats rank and file --
CUPP: But you have one right here.
PHILLIP: I know. What I'm saying --
CUPP: These things can be true --
PHILLIP: Right. But I'm saying --
CUPP: -- at the same time.
PHILLIP: -- what is -- what should be the response of elected Democrats? Because it sounds like a lot of Democrats, rank and file ones, they actually want their elected officials to be a little tougher, to fight back a little bit more.
CUPP: Yes.
PHILLIP: And so I'm wondering like what is the appropriate response? Should they just for 14 days for the polling to come in?
CUPP: No. But when Muriel Bowser went up on MSNBC, the D.C. mayor, and said, crime is down, problem solved, essentially saying this is a figment of your imagination.
[22:10:02]
There was no, to your point, yes, we could do better. Yes. This is a problem that we have to really keep looking at.
PHILLIP: Well, I do think that Muriel Bowser --
CUPP: That makes people go crazy.
PHILLIP: And we actually have -- we have some sound from her and from the police chief. They were out today. It's been interesting to watch her navigate this because she knows that she doesn't have a lot of choices in this situation. But she's also been pushing back against actually some people in her own party in the City Council about what to do about some of this crime. But listen to what they were saying today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAMELA SMITH, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE CHIEF: We know that we have to get illegal guns off of our street, and if we have this influx or enhanced presence, it's going to make our city even better.
MAYOR MURIEL BOWSER (D-WASHINGTON, D.C.): How we got here or what the -- what we think about the circumstances right now, we have more police and we want to make sure we're using them.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: Scott?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, the polling that you showed earlier combining people who thought extremely -- crime is an extreme problem, or crime is a moderate problem, was 91 percent. So, that is --
PHILLIP: Yes, I totally agree.
JENNINGS: So, 91 percent of people who live in a jurisdiction think it's a moderate or an extreme problem. This is not a figment of anyone's imagination. This is not mass hysteria. This isn't, you know, some, you know, collective hallucination. It's real. People who live there know they aren't safe. And so, I don't know, Chuck, why anybody would care, whether it's a police officer, to Arthur, to your point, or a National Guardsman or a Park police, who also were out patrolling apparently, I don't know why they would care if there are more eyes and ears on the street that makes them feel like if somebody is going to do something criminal or violent or untoward, there may be a greater chance that someone sees it. And so it's a 30-day project.
Last night there were 23 arrests, and they also picked up some illegal guns, which the mayor was just talking about and the police chief are just talking about. Why don't we give them 30 days, see the results, and then maybe the residents of D.C. and the leadership of D.C. can say, well, this worked, this didn't, here's how we could tweak it and do better. It's a 30-day --
PHILLIP: By the way, I find it interesting and probably it's a good thing that Republicans now are talking about illegal guns on the streets. Because prior to that was always the one thing that was never the cause of crime was guns on the streets. And those officers, to your point, Scott, are out there and they're picking up illegal guns, which, frankly, maybe Democrats and Republicans are meeting in the middle here on this, that is an issue in just the district and in a lot of parts of the country.
JENNINGS: Well, Republicans aren't for illegal guns. Republicans are for responsible gun ownership.
FROST: Well, because Donald Trump --
PHILLIP: A lot of Republican believe that D.C. --
JENNINGS: If guns are being used in crimes --
PHILLIP: A lot of Republicans believe that D.C.'s gun laws are illegal, that they are overbearing.
JENNINGS: Well, that's different than --
PHILLIP: And so those gun laws being --
JENNINGS: -- picking up illegal guns.
PHILLIP: Well, those guns -- those laws being violated suggest that it's D.C.'s gun laws that are making those guns illegal, because you actually are not allowed to have -- for the most part, most people are not allowed to have guns in the District of Columbia.
JENNINGS: That's true.
FROST: Well, I'm just a little confused though because, Scott, you're saying that, you know, Republicans in Congress and folks are not free legal guns, why is Donald Trump completely gutting the bipartisan Safer Communities Act, the parts of it that support law enforcement, the parts of it that support the entire federal government, working together with local law enforcement on crime, illegal gun statistics, on intelligence on guns, illegal gun trafficking, cracking down on these guys, why is Donald Trump undoing all of that from A to Z?
JENNINGS: Well, I don't know that's true, A. B, Republicans are for legal gun ownership. Of course, we believe in a Second Amendment.
FROST: Well, you can't just like (INAUDIBLE) and move forward.
JENNINGS: Well, you're making an allegation and I don't know that it is true. I'm just saying that Republicans want to enforce the law. And the laws of D.C. have obviously not been enforced to the point where the citizens believe they're safe. That's the point of this 30-day --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Republicans also want fewer gun laws, period. So, yes, they want legal gun ownership, but they also don't want as much regulation on guns at all. So, I think that's part of what --
JENNINGS: But a Republican would also tell you, and since I am one, I will, that it's not the guns. It's the criminals running around the streets of problem with the illegal guns.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: I mean, by that token, you would leave the illegal guns.
JENNINGS: A gun becomes illegal when a violent person uses it on another person.
FROST: That's not --
JENNINGS: That's what happens.
FROST: You need to look a little bit more into how this (INAUDIBLE) where it starts and where it ends guns on the black market. And the bipartisan Safer Communities Act --
JENNINGS: Republicans don't support --
FROST: Then why is Donald Trump getting rid of all the programming legal and all the funding in the bipartisan Safer Communities Act, which is the reason why the last three years, gun violence has gone down the most we've in the history of this country.
We still have a lot of work to do. People still feel not safe. But there's still work to do here.
AIDALA: I would just tell you this.
PHILLIP: A quick last word.
AIDALA: New York City was the safest when Michael Bloomberg was the mayor. It was very, very safe on the Bloomberg administration. He made a deal with all five district attorneys that as long as they sentenced anyone with an illegal gun to two years of mandatory prison, Plaxico Burress of the New York Giants won the Super Bowl, caught the catch, won the Super Bowl, and then got caught with an illegal gun.
[22:15:09]
And after going through three great lawyers, still got two years in jail for that illegal gun, that sent a tremendous message to the youth in the most underprivileged neighborhoods that if you touch an illegal gun, you're definitely going to go to jail, and it worked.
JENNINGS: Okay. So, Washington, D.C. --
PHILLIP: Well, we got to leave the conversation there.
Next for us, if you don't like the numbers, why not just get rid of them all together? Trump's new pick to deliver jobs reports is considering or was considering suspending them.
Plus, why the Smithsonian and the American History Museum is about to get a MAGA editor. We'll debate that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: President Trump's pick to lead the nation's labor stats is pushing to end one of the most crucial measurements of U.S. economic activity. In an interview with Fox News, E.J. Antoni suggests suspending the monthly jobs report, claiming the data is flawed.
Now, earlier this month, Trump fired the former Bureau of Labor Statistics Commissioner and he accused her without any evidence at all of rigging the July jobs numbers to make him look bad. Now, that same day, Antoni appeared on Steve Bannon's podcast and had this to say about who should fill that role instead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP STRATEGIST: Have we put in our own person into BLS? Is a MAGA Republican that President Trump knows and trusts, are they running the Bureau of Labor Statistics yet, sir?
E.J. ANTONI, ECONOMIST, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: No. Unfortunately, Steve, we still haven't gotten there and I think that's part of the reason why we continue to have all of these different data problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: Now, that man is the Heritage Foundation's chief economist. He has a master's and a doctor's degree in economics. But it was so interesting to me to see what other economists have said about not just what he's said but his actual work, like his work product, these papers that he's put out. Here's one. I've been on several programs with him at this point and I've been impressed by two things, his inability to understand basic economics and the speed with which he's gone MAGA. Another economist, his explicit only qualifications are that he works in ultra conservative think tanks and believes Trump's conspiracies about BLS. Others say, the articles and the tweets I've seen him published are probably the most error-filled of any think tank economists right now.
Huge questions right now about his qualifications, his understanding of economics, including in The Wall Street Journal, by the way, tonight in a pretty scathing op-ed, why is Trump nominating this person other than just to get the numbers he's looking for?
JENNINGS: Well, obviously he has the pleasure of the president. He enjoys the confidence of the president and he'll have to go through the process. I mean, I think the main thing he should be looking at is why is it that the BLS data constantly has to be revised and not by a little, but by a lot? I've wondered this for a very long time.
PHILLIP: It's not a mystery. We know the answer to that.
JENNINGS: Okay. So --
PHILLIP: It's because survey --
JENNINGS: -- if we know the answer, then why hasn't it been fixed? That's the next question.
PHILLIP: Because survey responses have gone down.
JENNINGS: And why wasn't anything done about it?
PHILLIP: Okay. Hold on a second. Survey responses have gone. We actually know the reason that this has happening. Now, the question is -- but you said something earlier, the pleasure of the president, of course, the answer is whatever Trump wants, he gets. But I'm really asking you, do you really think that that's the only thing that matters in a job of this significance?
JENNINGS: Well, it's one of the things that matters because he's a presidential appointee. The other thing that matters is that you have the kinds of qualifications to do it. The president thinks he does. The president's personnel staff thinks he does.
PHILLIP: But do you think he does?
JENNINGS: I mean, I don't know. I don't know the guy. I mean, he has a economics degree from an accredited university. And he has strong opinions about this. So --
PHILLIP: I mean, like even the Journal -- AIDALA: He's got a doctorate, doctorate in economics. I mean, that's not an easy thing to throw around.
JENNINGS: It feels like you don't like him because Trump appointed him. I mean, I --
PHILLIP: Listen, I don't know the man. I'm asking you --
JENNINGS: Okay. You and I have the same level of personal knowledge.
PHILLIP: I'm asking you about his qualifications because the Journal tonight in their op-ed literally pointed out just straight up factual mistakes in his analysis of BLS data, I mean, basic stuff that he's put out on social media that everybody can see with their own eyes. You know, in some instances, these economists are showing that he's completely misreading charts and graphs. That's a basic problem. That's not even going into the details of how you put together statistics on the unemployment rate, the inflation rates of the entire country.
CUPP: I'm not qualified to judge his qualifications. I can barely calculate the tip of a meal (ph). But I think what is disqualifying is when he says openly, publicly in an interview, yes, I think we need to get someone political, essentially, into this apolitical job. This is like putting a flat earther in charge of the maps. I mean, the maps are the maps, the data's the data. They don't like the data, so they'll get someone in who will say the data is better than what the data is. That's bananas.
But it's -- and it's going to lead to our country not being trusted by other countries and people not wanting to invest in our country when we're installing propagandists in jobs that should be apolitical. But we've seen it over and over again, don't like the results of the election? Call up that guy in Georgia, see if he can find more votes for us. Don't like -- worried about the president's health? Get a doctor who will say anything we tell him to say about the president's health. Don't like this hurricane map? Get a sharpie. We'll change it.
This is why people start losing faith in governments in countries when they can't believe things that really shouldn't be politicized.
ROCHA: I think that there's a point here that needs to be made that nobody's talking about is that this is something that the American people can understand.
[22:25:004]
They may not understand all the parts about the moving parts. If you're a Donald Trump MAGA, you say he should be able to, whoever, if you're a left wing Democrat like me, you're going to hate everything that he does. But folks in the middle will be like, I understand not liking the data. Most folks don't like the data on their scales when they stand on it and they get a new scale, because they don't worry about that that one's broken, this one must be broken.
But that's so simplistic and I don't -- I made that like comment to be like, people get this, they get the rigged system piece of this, and I think this is what's going to bite them in the butt.
FROST: I think this is just another scary action in a line of actions where the president there -- you know, there is a public servant who's doing their work, supposed to be in a nonpartisan way. The president doesn't like the facts. He fires them and puts in a crony lap dog. And I think this is an alarm bell for Congress.
And, you know, I'm working with some of my colleagues at looking at. I think we have to make some structural reforms when we have the levers of power again and what Donald Trump has shown us that he won't be the last -- hopefully will be the last president to do stuff like that, but he won't be the last to try, I think.
I think Congress is going to have to take away some of these some of this power of firing and appointing people on positions that are supposed to be nonpartisan. One that really concerned me was the librarian of Congress, which the Congressional Research Service falls under. That's where we get all of our non-partisan information and research to write all of our legislation. They're trying to take control of that as well. So, this isn't the only instance where this is happening.
PHILLIP: It's public and private. I mean, today Trump is railing against Goldman Sachs's economists for basically saying, you know, tariffs have been absorbed -- 22 percent of tariffs have been absorbed by Americans, that'll be 67 percent by October. Trump doesn't like those facts and wants them to replace their chief economist. This is a pattern when the data -- to S.E.'s point, when Trump doesn't like the data, he just says, get someone else who will give me the data that I want.
AIDALA: Listen, I can't disagree with anything, as he said earlier, but this is politics and it's done all the time.
(CROSSTALKS)
AIDALA: It's normal, but it is. Like we talked earlier about statistics. Do you know how many mayors manipulate crime statistics that are just -- they're just not accurate.
FROST: We're talking about the president of the United States.
AIDALA: I'm talking about New York City, okay, 8 million people.
FROST: We're trying to pass it along, like this is a normal thing. It happens all the time.
AIDALA: I'm not saying it's normal.
FROST: Okay. Don't say it's normal.
AIDALA: But, look, don't we put people on Supreme Court of the United States who we think are going to lean in the direction of --
PHILLIP: That's different from economic data. I mean -- AIDALA: It's completely different that one judge looks at it and says abortion is a right and another judge looks at and says, abortion is not a right.
PHILLIP: And, look --
AIDALA: One guy looks at it and says the jobs report is this, another report says it's all --
PHILLIP: If this were normal politics, then by that token, we would've seen this with all these other presidents. They all had the power to do what Donald Trump is doing, but they didn't do it.
AIDALA: How do we know that? Have we examined --
PHILLIP: How do we know? Well, let me tell you how we know. Let me tell you how we know. Joe Biden kept Donald Trump's commissioner of Bureau of the Bureau of Labor Statistics. He could have fired that man.
AIDALA: Okay.
PHILLIP: He did not. The numbers weren't always good. He could have fired that guy.
AIDALA: So, Biden didn't (INAUDIBLE). All I'm saying is we looked at every president, have they ever made those maneuvers?
PHILLIP: Presidents don't actually have not done these things. Donald Trump is doing them.
AIDALA: Okay? There's a lot of things that Donald Trump's are doing that I don't agree with, and there's some things that he's doing that I do agree with. Let's see what happens.
FROST: So, you disagree with this one?
AIDALA: I'm going to say what S.E. does. Like I don't even know how to do the tip on the check either, that's why I laugh so hard. So, I'm not going to challenge a guy who's got a doctorate in economics.
JENNINGS: Most people, I think, in both parties agree there's something wrong with the methodology. The data collection is not what is allowing them to get accurate data. Isn't -- and we can argue about the person. Isn't the goal here for this new person in the office to fix the way we collect the data so that we're not constantly revising these numbers? You want trusted data? We haven't had trusted data in years.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: I mean, this is --
JENNINGS: I don't know that he's not.
PHILLIP: Hold on. But this is the -- literally the DEI -- anti-DEI administration claiming that everybody, person of color, is not qualified, and then they put this guy in who people, economists are saying he's not even reading charts and graphs properly. What happened to qualifications?
JENNINGS: Look, he has a serious academic degree. The president thinks he's qualified. And I think he's been given a mission to clean up the way this data is collected so that we can have more trust in it than we currently do, which, as I understand it, is very, very low. So, that's my hope is what he's able to do.
PHILLIP: All right. Next for us, American History is about to get a MAGA makeover. The White House will now review some Smithsonian exhibits to fit Trump historical vision. We'll debate, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:34:25]
PHILLIP: Smithsonian museums may be getting a makeover soon. The White House has ordered a review of its exhibits to fit Donald Trump's vision of history, quote, "the initiative aims to ensure alignment with the president's directive to celebrate American exceptionalism, remove divisive or partisan narratives, and restore confidence in our shared cultural institutions." First question comes to my mind. What does that even mean?
ROCHA: I think people at home need to realize that the Smithsonian's, if you haven't been to Washington, D.C., I get to see them all the time. I take them for granted, right and bomb (ph). They're beautiful and they're free.
PHILLIP: Yes. They're free. Yeah.
[22:35:00]
ROCHA: They're free. Not free but they pay for them with all of our tax dollars and they want people to come in and learn about the history of America. And guess what, boys and girls, not all the history is beautiful. Not all the history is what you want it to be, but it's the history. And we learn from our history and it makes it really good and I like it. As a guy who never went to college, we talk about this, I find it fascinating to go into these things and learn things, like a little boy learning thing, and they're ours. So any changes to this is not good.
And I'm not talking about just African-Americans or Mexicans or whoever else out there thinks that they're going to be slighted. You go to the Native American Museum, you'll cry at what we've done to Native Americans because we should learn from that and learn to be better people all the time. And so this drives me nuts.
FROST: Yeah. It's also scary because we're talking about, we're in a time now where politicians are trying to rewrite history. I mean, this is happening in my state of Florida a few years ago. Ron DeSantis came out and his Board of Education said, you know what, we're going to change what kids read about when in terms of slavery. We want people to read and kids to read that black people that were enslaved received personal benefit from it.
So, I just don't -- why are Republican politicians so comfortable with going in and trying to change history and the way our students are learning about where our nation has been and where we're going? It's a very scary thing.
PHILLIP: It's an important question. I mean, why does history have to be, I don't know, like just whitewashed in a way that only represents America in one particular way? Why can't it just be accurate?
JENNINGS: Well, I read the White House statement. They do want the historical exhibits to be accurate. So this is one of those situations where nothing has happened yet. A letter has gone out that they would like to talk to the Smithsonian about the content of the exhibits, but nothing has actually happened. So you don't actually know what if any changes are going to be made.
We are in the midst of getting ready to celebrate our country's 250th anniversary. I can tell you this. It is of vital interest in importance to the White House that this celebration be pro-America and that we -- everything we do as a government but celebrate American exceptionalism and what's good about this country and there are --
PHILLIP: I think that is separate -- I think that's a separate topic.
JENNINGS: -- there are people who would like to tell a negative story about our country.
PHILLIP: Yeah, but that's --
FROST: That is negative, Scott. Some of it is negative.
PHILLIP: Yeah. I mean, do you not think that there are parts of our history that are negative?
JENNINGS: Of course, but what -- the parts of our country and our longevity and what we've built and what we've corrected and how we've improved and the progress we've made --
PHILLIP: How do you even -- how will you even know what --
JENNINGS: -- that is the story of American exceptionalism.
PHILLIP: How can you even understand? If your child --
JENNINGS: And that's what they want to portray.
PHILLIP: -- and you want to teach your child where America has come from, how do you even do that without getting into the nitty gritty of the good, bad and the ugly? And to answer your question about how do we know what they're going to do, well, we already kind of know what they've done so far.
March 28th, Trump targets improper ideology at the Smithsonian in an effort to shape arts and culture and history. February 13th, transgender and queer erased from the Stonewall Uprising National Monument website. Gay rights icon Harvey Milk's legacy, slighted by decision to rename a Navy ship, war heroes and military firsts are among 26,000 images flagged for removal in the Pentagon's DEI purge. Some of those flagged simply because, for example, the Enola Gay, use the word gay in it. It's completely even out of context because they're just using keywords to search for things that seem like DEI.
ARTHUR AIDALA, HOST, ARTHUR ALDALA POWER HOUR: Look, every country has horrible parts of its history. I mean, you can find me one that doesn't and I'll throw you a bouquet. I think what the president is looking at, and I don't know this personally, but what are we going to highlight? Are we going to highlight that this young man who is the -- probably going to win to be the mayor of the city of New York, came over here as an immigrant, and now he may be the mayor of the city of New York?
Find me another country where that happens in 2025. It is not a common thing. So are we going to highlight that part, or are we going to highlight 200 years ago what we did to Indians to take over the state of California? I'm not saying we should whitewash it --
PHILLIP: I don't know. I guess I was just -- I'm just asking like --
ALADAL: -- but what are we going to show what?
PHILLIP: -- why is this an either or? I mean, do you really want --
AIDALA: Because it's what you're going to highlight. You always highlight something.
PHILLIP: But do you really want a history in which you ignore --
AIDALA: Okay --
PHILLIP: -- what happened to Native Americans in this country?
AIDALA: -- let me just say one more thing. Do you want -- do you want to walk into the Air and Space Museum and talk about the two Challengers that exploded? Or do you want to talk about --
FROST: You read about it. You read about there (ph).
AIDALA: But it could be over in the left -- yes. But it could be over in the left hand corner. You want to walk in and say, we were the first country to put a person on the moon. We were the first country to do this. And yes, then in the corner, you talk about the things that we screwed up. That's the truth.
CUPP: This is insane. This is very Russia-coded.
FROST: Yeah.
CUPP: You know, the fires --
AIDALA: I'm not saying we'll erase it. It's what you highlight versus what you --- I'm not saying it should disappear.
CUPP: Yeah. Another word for what you're saying is propaganda. And --
AIDALA: So you want to talk about the Columbia blowing up. Let's walk into the Air and Space Museum and talk about Columbia blowing up.
FROST: -- so we never do it again.
AIDALA: But what about the accomplishments?
PHILLIP: Hold on, Arthur. Go ahead, S.E.
[22:40:00]
CUPP: Just let me get a thought out. One of the first things Russia did after it invaded Ukraine illegally was have the Ministry of Culture review all the museums to make sure that they were sufficiently pro-Russian exceptionalism. It took over around 40 museums in Ukraine. It turned one museum in Mariupol, Ukraine into the museum of Andrei Zhdanov, who was Stalin's propaganda minister. This stuff happens all the time in totalitarian and authoritarian countries that want to whitewash history for the benefit of propaganda.
It's not about highlighting, putting one thing in this corner versus that corner. It's the difference between history and propaganda. And museums should not be in the business of propaganda.
AIDALA: So, should we wipe out Columbus? Congress may know. Mamdani says if he becomes mayor, he's wiping out Columbus -- Columbus -- the statue comes down, and we should forget about Christopher Columbus. Is that okay?
CUPP: No, I'm Italian. I'm proud of Columbus.
AIDALA: According to you, it wouldn't be okay.
CUPP: No, I never said that.
FROST: I don't understand why you can't say or just say I disagree with politicians trying to change history. Why can't you just say that? You're like going through all these soups (ph) trying to talk about highlighting things that you sound ridiculous.
AIDALA: Bu what Mamdani says if he becomes --
FROST: We're not talking about Mamdani. We're talking about --
AIDALA: -- but he's a politician.
FROST: We're talking about Donald Trump.
AIDALA: No, if you're going to upset about the right wing doing something, are you upset about the left wing doing something?
PHILLIP: Look, I --
FROST: Mamdani has not said he's going to go into institutions with -- and museums in here -- AIDALA: No. He said he's going to take down the statue of Christopher Columbus, which is a historic landmark.
PHILLIP: Arthur, one of the things about Trump is that he forces people to think about politics in areas that they've never thought about politics before. Most Americans never thought that the President of the United States would have their hand in Smithsonian exhibits and he is doing that right now and I can't think of a single good reason why.
JENNINGS: Yeah, the last time we sort of talked about the changing of historical exhibits was when all these angry mobs all over the country tore down historical statues all over the place and the people who seem to be angriest about the Smithsonian review were cheering that on. So I agree with you. Occasionally, parts of our society do -- do look into --
FROST: Put those statues into museums.
JENNINGS: No, they --
AIDALA: Teddy Roosevelt's statues is gone.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: They didn't look like they were putting them in museums when they were tying ropes around them and dragging them down. You may be misremembering how it happened, but that's what happened.
FROST: I'm not here to justify people tearing things down and this and that, but I just think it is grand that right at this table, I can't hear from both of you, you can't even just say politicians should not be editing our history and trying to change our history. That's what they're doing.
JENNINGS: I don't believe they're changing our history. I don't believe that that is what they're doing.
FROST: It is what he has been trying to do.
PHILLIP: All right, we got to leave it there. Congressman Maxwell Frost, thank you very much for joining us. Everyone else, don't go anywhere. Next for us, breaking news. Texas Democrats are considering an end to their standoff over redistricting as one of them goes viral for his interview on Fox.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES TALARICO, TEXAS STATE REPRESENTATIVE: I asked you, if Republican policies are popular, why do they need to redraw these maps?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:45:00] PHILLIP: Tonight, the standoff over Donald Trump's redistricting ends its second week, Texas Democrats are on the run and they are considering returning to the state of Texas. One of them is now going viral for his interview on Fox News that inspired the host to just tap out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TALARICO: And I've condemned all gerrymandering across the country. And in fact, when Democrats had a majority in Congress, they voted to ban gerrymandering in every state, red states and blue states. Do know how many Republican members of Congress joined them in that effort?
WILL CAIN, FOX NEWS HOST, THE WILL CAIN SHOW: Which one? I'm sorry. Which state did you just refer to?
TALARICO: I'm asking, do you know how many Republicans joined Democrats in the U.S. Congress to ban gerrymandering? All the Democrats voted for it. Zero Republicans voted for it. Zero.
CAIN: It's an odd -- it's an odd.
TALARICO: You can spare -- you can spare me the both sides rhetoric.
CAIN: It just kind of flies in the face of reality when I look at the state of Massachusetts where Donald Trump gets 35 percent of the votes and there are zero Republican representatives from the state of Massachusetts.
TALARICO: And who signed that map in Massachusetts?
CAIN: And so what I'm curious --
TALARICO: Do you know the party of the governor that signed that map into law? He was a Republican. It was a Republican governor that signed that map into law. And I asked you, if Republican policies are popular, why do they need to redraw these maps? Why can't they just run on their policies?
CAIN: I'm -- I'm getting wrapped on time. I'm enjoying this conversation. I want to let it go on, and I apologize. That's such is the nature of cable television.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That did not go so well.
ROCHA: Look, James Talarico is a talented politician and you all should know that he grew up in the pulpit and that he comes from a church family. He's a preacher. His father is a preacher and you can tell he's really good on his feet. And he leans into community, which is Democrats sometimes run from that, we talk about that, but this is happening because Republicans are worried that they're going to lose at midterms and they want five more seats. That's the bottom line.
Do people redistrict? Yes. They do it every 10 years when whoever's in charge redistricting. That's the way this game is played. But in the middle of the year, right now, this tells me everything I need to know about the way Republicans are looking at the midterms and they're trying to stack the deck and that's exactly how Donald Trump for a bunch of working class people into voting for him by saying the system is rigged and now they're trying to rig the system.
PHILLIP: I can't tell what the argument of Republicans is. I mean, is it that they're allowed to do it so they're doing it for raw politics? Is it because we, you know, partisan redistricting is good, and correct? Or is it because Democrats did it first? We should do it, or all of those things.
[22:49:55]
JENNINGS: Yeah, I'm not sure any of those things you said are mutually exclusive. I mean, the reality is Democrats have gerrymandered a great many states. Republicans see this as retaliation for that. And it is raw politics. But it was raw politics when they drew the maps in Illinois and New York and other places. And so if you think raw politics is bad, you'll hate it. If you think raw politics is good, you'll say it's fine. And I suspect that's how most people are -- the limbs of which they see it.
ROCHA: Every 10 years they drew them after we did a census --
FROST: The president didn't come out and say, I want you to redraw the maps because I want three to four new seats.
JENNINGS: Yeah, they were more subtle in the democratic states.
(CROSSTALK)
CUPP: I just don't have --
(CROSSTALK)
FROS: It never did mid-year at a president asking them to --
JENNINGS: Do you believe these blue states (inaudible). That is what we're talking about.
CUPP: I don't know that voters care about all of these stipulations like, well, he's doing it now and so (inaudible). If I'm an average voter, I just think this all sucks. This is all gross. You don't like the map. You don't feel like you're going to win. Change the map. It's gross. Both sides do it. I think the way that Don Beyer and Jamie Raskin in the House are doing it is probably the best. They're putting forward new legislation to have independent redistricting commissions.
And that's something that everyone will hate, which is why, you know, it's probably a good thing, because it takes this power away. Now, the Supreme Court decided Congress has this power, so you're stuck with that. But Congress also has the power to change the way it does this.
PHILLIP: Right. Yeah.
CUPP: And I think voters would agree with that.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I think to his point, as much as Democrats and Republicans both do it, Democrats are more likely to say, let's end the practice altogether. Like, let's take this off the table for everybody.
ROCHA: It's funny that you say that -- sorry.
PHILLIP: Why won't Republicans do the same?
AIDALA: I agree with you, and I agree that it should be based on the numbers. It should be based on the census. But you should see the maps in New York City, how they are so drawn. I mean, there's one Republican in the city of New York, Nicole Malliotakis, who happens to be my congressperson. And she's got Staten Island in this little piece of Brooklyn.
PHILLIP: And the city of New York --
AIDALA: The city.
PHILLIP: -- but in the state of New York, I mean, Republicans came out looking good after the last census. And they have --
(CROSSTALK)
AIDALA: Eight million people, there's one Republican representative.
PHILLIP: -- and they -- and they occupy a number -- I'm talking about the state of New York.
AIDALA: No, I know, but I'm just saying, eight million people --
(CROSSTALK)
ROCHA: It's really important for people to understand this whole gerrymandering thing on both sides is the reason we're in a congress who can't get anything done.
AIDALA: True.
ROCHA: That's because 400 of our districts are safe Republican or safe Democrat.
PHILLIP: Right.
ROCHA: So when you worry about primaries from our left flank or our right flank, there's only like 33 marginal seats where folks are like I got to find middle ground and come up with some real solutions. We should make sure this is political consultant talking --
AIDALA: Times one.
ROCHA: -- that all the districts are even and they're all up for grabs so they can have real elections. JENNINGS: Well the issue here, though, is states that are doing
something about it are all democratic states. The ones making their own independent redistricting committee, that's the problem because it puts us in a position where we have our hands tied behind our back. We need to have a national gerrymandering laws where we all play by the same rules no matter what state you're in.
PHILLIP: All right.
JENNINGS: Democrats are for that.
PHILLIP: Next for us, the panel is going to give us their night caps, the Taylor Swift edition. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:55:00]
PHILLIP: We're back and it's time for the News Night Cap, Taylor Swift edition. The star, as you probably know, revealed the name of her 12th album, "The Life of a Showgirl." So now you each have 30 seconds to tell us the name of your album. Arthur, you're up.
AIDALA: Well, I never leave home without my Taylor Swift t-shirt. It makes me feel good to carry it around. I know Scott has one as well.
JENNINGS: I got to get a picture of this.
AIDALA: I mean, come on, she's the best. She is a Watch Hill resident. So if I was gonna make my movie, it will be The Life of a Bald Beauty because, you know, rest in (inaudible). That's what I am. I'm a bald beauty.
PHILLIP: All right, S.E.
CUPP: Oh, well, my album would just be called "Anxiety." And every track would be me catastrophizing about things that aren't likely to happen. Enjoy. Enjoy.
PHILLIP: You and Dochi (ph) would get along very well.
CUPP: Yeah, exactly.
PHILLIP: Congressman.
FROST: Mine's in Spanish, it's "Tengo un hambre que no veo (ph)," which is something my grandma used to say, she passed away a years ago. It means I'm so hungry I can't see. Because she was always hungry.
PHILLIP: I get it. I felt that hunger.
ROCHA: My wife's gonna be so pissed that I'm not doing something about Taylor Swift. She loves Taylor Swift. Now we have to take her to a damn concert. I just feel it coming on as we speak. The name of --
PHILLIP: Get your wallet ready.
ROCHA: No doubt. My God. I went to borrow some money from Scott. The name of my album would be called "Mexican Redneck Revival" because I'm a lot of things. I'm Mexican. I'm a redneck. I grew up in the church and I like country soul, classic rock. We're going to do it all like the revival. Come on down.
CUPP: I would buy that album.
PHILLIP: I actually really love that. It's a great idea. Mexican Redneck Revival.
ROCHA: We should do it.
FROST: I play drums.
PHILLIP: Yes.
ROCHA: Me and mama used to sing out at the opera (ph).
PHILLIP: That'll be Beyonce's --
ROCHA: -- years ago.
CUPP: I love it.
PHILLIP: -- fifth album in the series of genre.
ROCHA: Everybody has to wear a cowboy hat.
PHILLIP: Yes. Again, again. All right, Scott Jennings.
JENNINGS: A little offended by the term redneck. FYI.
ROCHA: That's alright. Take it and go. Play your bail (ph).
JENNINGS: Now, look, look. Like the rest of you, I put my pants on one leg at a time.
ROCHA: Oh, dear lord.
JENNINGS: The difference is, when I do, I deliver common sense to the American people, which is why my album is called "The Cowbell of Common Sense" and I think we can all agree we need more cowbell.
PHILLIP: Is that you, Scott?
CUPP: Is that you?
JENNINGS: I'm just saying.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Wait, stop. Is that you?
JENNINGS: That's the cal -- that's my album cover. PHILLIP: I'm slightly terrified.
JENNINGSL: Literal, I made an album cover. I stole this cowbell from John Berman's desk.
ROCHA: Looks like a goat from --
JENNINGS: An I am like --
[22:59:59]
PHILLIP: I don't know how to feel.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: This is going to go viral. I'm not going to say whether it's going to be a good viral or a bad viral.
JENNINGS: I did good. I'm just saying. Never question Scott Jennings.
PHILLIP: Okay, Scott Jennings, everyone. Thank you all so much for being here. Thanks for watching "NewsNight." You can catch me anytime on your favorite social media apps, Instagram and TikTok. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
