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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Pressure Mounts as Shutdown's Real World Impact Grows; Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) Strays from Trump, Backs Democratic Efforts; Bondi Stonewalls Questions, Attacks Senators Instead; Mamdani Faces Criticism For October 7th Statement; DHS Trolls Zach Bryan; Kamala Harris Uses A Curse Word In Her SF Masonic Auditorium Talk. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 07, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, from the skies to the salaries, the real world impact of the government's shutdown is starting to show as Donald Trump raises the stakes by threatening paychecks.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I would say it depends on who we're talking about.
PHILLIP: Plus the attorney general who's been under fire from the left and the right takes a field trip to Congress.
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: How dare you? I'm a career prosecutor.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): I think it is possibly a new low.
PHILLIP: Does chaos trump oversight in this new era?
Also on the two year anniversary of the Hamas attack, New York's frontrunner attacks Israel and calls the U.S. complicit in a genocide.
And as troops touch down on the streets of Chicago, the feds clap back to a country star's diss track again.
Live at the table, Bakari Sellers, Peter Meijer, Ana Navarro, and Hal Lambert.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Philip in New York.
For one week, there's been absolutely no urgency in Washington to reopen the government. No talks, no progress, the House is not even in session. But now they may be starting to feel the heat. Delays are spreading at America's biggest airports from Nashville to Vegas, to Newark, New Jersey. Air traffic controllers are calling out sick because they're not getting paid. And the FAA warns that there aren't enough of them. In fact, a pilot who's trying to land at Burbank Airport learned of his unmanned tower during his descent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just getting a heads up, you said everything's closed for like our clearances?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clearance is closed. Grounds closed. Locals closed. The tower is closed due to staffing. Please just contact SoCal on the 800 number and the green book for your clearance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: The shortages are coming as the White House appears to be backing off the president's threat of mass firings. But that isn't stopping him from threatening the back pay of thousands of those furloughed workers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: -- position that furloughed workers should be paid for their back pay?
TRUMP: I would say it depends on who we're talking about. I can tell you this, the Democrats have put a lot of people in great risk and jeopardy. But it really depends on who you're talking about. But for the most part, we're going to take care of our people. There are some people that really don't deserve to be taken care of and we'll take care of them in a different way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Now, if that wasn't clear, one official says that there is a draft of a White House memo suggesting that furloughed workers don't need to be paid for not working. Now, that is a sudden change and it may not even be legal. Just before the shutdown, the White House's own frequently asked questions page on their website clearly said that the law insures back pay, and now that section has suddenly disappeared. That page was edited on October 3rd, and any mention of that law is now gone.
I don't know if they'll be able to legally do this, and, by the way, we should note this is a law that was passed in 2019 when Donald Trump was president.
And, Peter, by the way, welcome to the show. This is your first time joining us here, but new reporting from CNN tonight that I think is important here. This is what a source in the White House says. There's an increasing acknowledgement within the West Wing that the politics of reductions in force at a moment when we know our message on the shutdown is the better one would be better later, said one official. It's the idea that if we give it more time, it'll be because Democrats truly forced our hand and left us no choice and we don't want to appear gleeful about people losing their jobs.
Is Trump appearing gleeful and also perhaps vindictive in this moment?
FMR. REP. PETER MEIJER (R-MI): No, I don't think there's any glee. There's any vindictiveness. I will say Russell Vought, he is a -- I mean, he's Russell the professional. This is not a guy you want to mess around with. You know, there are certainly folks in the orbit that are just in it for the T.V. appearances, that is not Russ Vought.
And so the idea that he can go out and start to do what DOGE didn't, I think, is incredibly tempting.
[22:05:03]
And the longer Senate Democrats refuse to come back to the table, the longer they want to keep this shutdown going because they think maybe at some point their, you know, weird healthcare messaging is going to get over the, you know, mimetic power of this sombrero. I just -- I don't see it happening.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That was, first of all, it was fun. It was decently illogical. I mean, Russ Vought, for people watching, is an unelected bureaucrat. Nobody came up here to elect him. Nobody cast ballot. But just let me -- I'm going to finish my thoughts as well.
MEIJER: Sure.
SELLERS: So, he's an unelected bureaucrat who's going around allegedly finishing the job that Elon Musk wasn't able to do, which I think most viewers have a great deal of heartburn about, if not even find laughable. That's first.
But, second, it's not some magical healthcare initiative that's going to rain like manna from heaven above. The fact is we know that 15 million people are going to be kicked off of healthcare. We know that rural hospitals are shutting down. We also know -- wait, we're going to finish sentences. We also know -- we also know that in a couple of weeks, we're going to see primary -- I mean, premiums not only double but triple in some circumstances. That's not something that we can push out. That's going to happen November 1st. If you are a family making -- a middle class family making $85,000 a year, your premiums are going to skyrocket to about $25,000 a year on Republican watch.
And so when we're talking about ACA subsidies, when we're talking about Medicaid, this is not just some fictitious issue so Russell Vought can go around and act like he's the grand wizard. No. This is making sure that people have access to quality healthcare, period.
HAL LAMBERT, FOUNDER AND CEO, POINT BRIDGE CAPITAL: So, Obamacare is not working, it sounds like, because this is what we're talking about.
MEIJER: How much of that premium increases because of the expiration of the temporary, couldn't even get Democrats to make this permanent, temporary tax credit --
SELLERS: Actually, there's a conversation right now to do it yearly.
MEIJER: It's about $40.
SELLERS: It's actually right now, it's about year-to-year. And I wish both of you all, we just take the advice of the great Republican Marjorie Taylor Green because she's the one who's actually making the most sense. Look at the camera. We know what we can do right now if we want the shutdown to stop, and this is what Democrats have been saying, if we want the shutdown to end, come to the negotiating table, let's bring back the ACA subsidies and let's make sure people don't lose healthcare.
PHILLIP: Let me read what Marjorie Taylor Greene, just for people who don't know what he's talking about. Marjorie Taylor Greene wrote this I'm going to go against everyone on this issue because when the tax credits expire this year, my own adult children's insurance premiums for 2026 are going to double along with all the wonderful families and hardworking people in my district. She continues, not a single Republican in leadership talk to us about this or has given us a plan to help Americans deal with their health insurance premiums doubling.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And I said this the last time, everybody who is on, you know, the exchange, even those of us who do not receive subsidies, received a notice from the insurance company saying, because of government changes, your premiums are likely to go up. So, check what's going to happen.
And so I think there's a lot of people with a lot of angst and I just look at the tone deafness of Donald Trump in his Sadam Hussein gold- gilded Oval office saying, yes, we're not going to pay them. We're going to furlough them and not going to pay them, when there're so many people in America who live paycheck-to-paycheck who work for the federal government, and even that isn't enough to pay for their bills.
PHILLIP: I think that's -- at the end of the day, I mean, this day of the shutdown was different from the others because it was like doubling down on pain for Americans. And I just wonder how, in terms of the optics, which is what Ana is talking about, you have the president saying, oh, we may not pay, you know, the janitors, you know, these relatively low wage people and even some higher wage people who work in the federal government.
NAVARRO: In fact, that's his modus operandi. Anybody's who worked for him in construction will tell you that.
PHILLIP: And then on top of that is the underlying healthcare issue, which we know, according to the polling Americans, want to be addressed. They want those subsidies to be continued.
LAMBERT: Okay. Well, we have three -- basically, three different topics going at the same time. But if we want to talk about the healthcare side --
PHILLIP: That's -- unfortunately, that's the sad part about this shutdown. It's three -- it's a bunch of different issues all at once and people in Congress are elected to deal with them. So -- LAMBERT: Yes, but I'll just say this. So, let's talk about the Medicare and the Medicaid and the insurance costs, right? The reason this is happening, they have not said they're not going to keep the subsidies going. That can be happening in November. That's a separate issue from the shutdown.
The shutdown has to do with the fact that they changed the -- they tweaked the language because California and other states, there are five other states that are giving undocumented illegal immigrants health insurance and healthcare.
PHILLIP: The formula is not -- just to be clear, how the formula is not tweaked for those states, just to -- hold on, hold on. This is super important. The formula that you're talking about that changes the reimbursement is not targeted at those states. It is -- it applies across the board.
LAMBERT: I get that.
PHILLIP: And so hospitals, no matter whether you're in a red state or a blue state, whether you provide health insurance to immigrants or not, you are affected by the change in the formula.
[22:10:00]
NAVARRO: And that law was signed in 1986 by Ronald Reagan.
LAMBERT: The California was using a loophole in the law to provide massive amounts of federal dollars to illegals. That's what --
PHILLIP: That may be the case. But just to be clear, the change that was made by this Republican Congress applies to all states. So, California might be disproportionately affected, but other states are affected too. And some of those states are red states. Some of those states are blue states.
LAMBERT: Well, but the problem is that they're using Medicaid for illegals and they're denying that they're doing it.
SELLERS: Do you have any argument that doesn't have like illegal in it? So, let me ask you this question. Let me ask you this question. A family, good old white bred American family making $85,000, middle class, their premiums going up to $25,000. Make an argument about why we should not bring back ACA subsidies that does not utilize the word illegal?
LAMBERT: I would like to fix the entire healthcare system. This healthcare system's broken. What you're talking about is just pumping more federal dollars into it. That's really what we're talking about here. And the system is broken and it's broken because the --
PHILLIP: The system is broken, but I don't understand why, Hal, you want to deal with the Medicaid issue but not the premium issue. I don't -- they're -- but they're all part of this issue.
LAMBERT: But the premium is not part of the shutdown. The premium is not the issue of the shutdown.
PHILLIP: Hold on. Look, the premium the premium issue, just like the subsidy issue, are the two things that Democrats have put on the table.
Now, I'm not saying that it's right that they put it on the table. I'm not saying that it's right that the government is shut down. I'm just saying that if that's the -- if those are the issues that they've put on the table that they want to negotiate on, both of them are on the table, one of them, frankly, I think, is being completely misrepresented, including by you here in terms of the Medicaid subsidies.
But the other one, there's clear public support for continuing those subsidies. And my question on Republicans is, are they going to be able to continue to pretend like that issue is not there for Americans? Because Americans know it's there, they want it to be addressed, and it sounds like in the White House, they're getting concerned that they're losing the messaging war on this.
MEIJER: No. There's clear public support to make healthcare affordable.
PHILLIP: 100 percent.
MEIJER: And the failure of the Affordable Care Act. We can call it the ACA to avoid the A word that's in there, but the reality is the subsidies were put in.
SELLERS: I call it Obamacare. I give it the real name that it deserves, the person who actually tried to fix our broken healthcare system --
MEIJER: Fair enough.
SELLERS: -- that's given million, millions of people access to quality care.
MEIJER: That is, given that family you were talking about earlier now, $25,000 in premiums.
SELLERS: No, that's why we actually -- actually, let me ask you this question.
MEIJER: Sure.
SELLERS: Who appealed the subsidies?
MEIJER: The --
SELLERS: Who were -- what bill? What --
MEIJER: Are you talking about the current subsidies that are going to expire?
SELLERS: Yes. Who repealed that? MEIJER: These were temporary subsidies.
SELLERS: Who repealed them? Who did not extend them? Who did it? So, they just weren't made permanent. They weren't made permanent.
MEIJER: And the Biden budget that, by the way, a bunch of Democrats supported.
And you talk about Democrats coming back to the table in this case. Democrats don't need to come back to the table. They need to pass the budget they've passed four times in the past, right? That is why the government is shut down, right? So, they're using this leverage, right? So, the Democrats shut down the government, they hope to use this to try to extend these subsidies, to try to expand other elements, sure, fair, fine, but let's talk about this for what it is. Republicans voted against this budget under Biden, and I get why Democrats are now doing it under Trump. But don't call this a Trump shutdown. It's a Schumer showdown.
NAVARRO: Well, listen, okay, calling it Schumer showdown is, you know, the talking point to du jour and talking about how this is all about Alexandro, Ocasio-Cortez and all of that. I just -- I don't buy that. Because if I think Schumer was doing this because he was scared of his left --
MEIJER: He voted against it. He voted for it in the spring.
NAVARRO: Fine. If Schumer was so afraid of his left flank, he would have endorsed Mamdani and he would've been out there and campaigning for him because that's what's happening now.
MEIJER: You're assuming he's smart on these things?
NAVARRO: No. Well --
SELLERS: He's definitely shrewd.
NAVARRO: He's definitely smart on this thing.
SELLERS: But also like you forget -- I mean, your timeline is off and that's why the argument falls flat. Because you keep saying, oh, you just voted for this in the spring and now what happened between then and now? You passed the one big, beautiful bill. So, what happens was millions of people got kicked off of Medicaid. That means federal health centers are shutting down. We've already had three. We actually have one in South Carolina, Columbia, South Carolina, the Eau Claire Health Center. It has actually shut down six locations where people go and have access to care. So, your argument is wrong because your timeline is flawed.
What happened was, in the spring, we passed the C.R. You passed a big, beautiful bill. That was trash. Everything that you broke in it, we're trying to fix it now.
PHILLIP: All right. We got to leave it there for that. Next, for us, a different kind of circus over on Capitol Hill as Pam Bondi sat in the hot seat. Is this the new normal of governing, avoiding oversight by fighting with lawmakers? Another special guest is going to be with us at the table.
Plus, as Texas troops touched down in Chicago, Homeland Security trolls a country star over his anti-ICE song.
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[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, the White House is reportedly so pleased with Attorney General Pam Bondi's testimony on Capitol Hill that they're calling it a master class. Bondi clashed with lawmakers today as she faced questions on a number of controversial moves by the Trump administration. They grilled her on everything, from Jeffrey Epstein to President Trump's National Guard deployment, and her strategy was effectively to deflect and attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONDI: You're welcome to discuss this with Director Patel.
I'm not going to discuss anything about that with you, Senator.
That's pending litigation and I can't discuss that at all.
I am not going to discuss pending cases.
I can't discuss anything regarding that matter.
[22:20:00]
As I stated earlier, that is still a pending matter.
I am not going to discuss anything that is ongoing.
I have had no meetings or discussions about a fund.
I am not going to talk about personnel matters with you.
I'm not going to discuss any legal advice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Temidayo Aganga-Williams joins us in our fifth seat. Temidayo, I mean, I don't think this is a surprise if you've been paying attention to the Trump administration's performance on Capitol Hill, but it does seem to be like a low point for Congressional oversight, if that is a thing anymore.
TEMIDAYO AGANGA-WILLIAMS, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I think it is, and I think it's a low point for Department of Justice. And I think when I was an assistant U.S. attorney working the DOJ, if I were to look and see that that was my attorney general, the person that was supposed to stand for independence, for the rule of law, for the application -- for the fair application of justice, I don't think I would leave feeling confident about that. I think the way the attorney general sidestepped important questions about Thomas Homan, for example, right, taking $50,000 in a bag and the DOJ not choosing to prosecute that case.
I think I would leave feeling that this department was not focused on what was good for the American people, but was focused on the audience of one and acting as the president's lawyers, and that's exactly what undermines the faith and trust we should be having in our Department of Justice.
NAVARRO: I actually think it's more than an audience of one, and I'll tell you why. Because remember how -- she took some hits, earlier this year from Laura Loomer-types because of the Epstein files and because of her performance. And so I think the fact that we're talking about her and just the way that she was so antagonistic is actually a good thing for her when it comes to her stock with the MAGA base and with Trump.
I'll tell you, for me, this was sad. I could only stand to watch it so long because I have known Pam Bondi for a very long time. I knew her when she was attorney general of Florida, and she was a nice southern girl. She was completely different than the performance you saw today. When I see that Pam Bondi today, I see somebody that has changed 180 degrees. I don't know which Pam Bondi is the real Pam Bondi. I don't know which Pam Bondi is auditioning for an Oscar, you know, for best supporting dramatic actor. But she -- you know, it's just a completely different person, but it's also symptomatic of what's happened to many moderate -- former moderate Republicans that have completely done lobotomies during the Trump age.
PHILLIP: To your point about the Jeffrey Epstein thing, I mean, I do think this is a big part of the picture. Let me just play what she said back in February about Epstein, and then when she was asked about it today. Here's what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients? Will that really happen?
BONDI: It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump.
And if you see our memo on Epstein, you will see, excuse me, our memo on Epstein clearly points out that there was no client list, our July 6th memo.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NAVARRO: Well, the real Pam Bondi please stand up?
PHILLIP: I mean, shouldn't she have to explain that?
MEIJER: Explain her comments on Epstein earlier or -- PHILLIP: Yes.
MEIJER: Or why the Democrat suddenly have an interest in Epstein, where they didn't during Biden?
PHILLIP: Should she had to explain why she said it was on my desk, I'm reviewing it, and then she turns around and says, in the Congressional hearing, it doesn't even exist? And isn't that a legitimate line of inquiry for Congress, especially since Congress is set to vote on this very set of issues? I mean, again, some of this is just about -- there are legitimate questions for the attorney general. Shouldn't she answer them?
MEIJER: No. And, yes, Congress is set to vote on this. There's a discharge petition that is on the House floor that needs one more vote as soon as the special election, I believe --
NAVARRO: As soon as they swear in the woman who won in Arizona.
SELLERS: They just have to swear her in.
MEIJER: Hold your horses.
NAVARRO: Why?
PHILLIP: He knows the game. Don't worry.
MEIJER: But in the case of that question, I mean, that was not artfully answered, right? But there was a compound question leading into it. It was, oh, we're reviewing the JFK files, reviewing the Epstein files, all of this. They pumped it up too much. They pumped it up too much. She's at a pretzel.
(CROSSTALKS)
NAVARRO: And then there was a run-on and then there was a typo.
PHILLIP: Listen, the point is not the Epstein rabbit hole, okay? The point is, are there legitimate questions for Congressional members, for senators, Congress people to ask? I mean, here she was asked by Dick Durbin about the plan to send the National Guard from Texas to Chicago. Listen to this exchange.
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SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): What a disappointment. Here she is, attorney general of the United States, competent individual, well-spoken individual, and wouldn't answer basic questions, came in ready to fight.
[22:25:05]
BLUMENTHAL: I have never seen anything close to it in terms of the combativeness, the evasiveness, and sometimes deceptiveness. I think it is possibly a new low.
DURBIN: They're going to transfer Texas National Guard units to the state of Illinois. What's the rationale for that?
BONDI: Yes, Chairman. As you shut down the government, you voted to shut down the government and you're sitting here, our law enforcement officers aren't being paid. They're out there working to protect you. I wish you loved Chicago as much as you hate President Trump. And, currently, the National Guard are on the way to Chicago. If you're not going to protect your citizens, President Trump will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I mean, look, if she's running for office, that would be a great answer. But she is in a seat that is accountable to Congress. I mean, that's what oversight is for.
LAMBERT: Well, being from Texas, I mean the Texas National Guard going to Chicago, there is a reason, and it's because we know there was a stand down order given --
PHILLIP: Maybe there's a reason but she didn't provide it. I mean, she's the attorney general. Shouldn't she be able to explain the rationale, the legal basis on which they're making that move?
LAMBERT: President Trump is making that move and moving the National Guard up there to protect ICE agents because Chicago, the city of Chicago, did a stand down order and is not protecting ICE agents from, you know, radicals inside their city. And then, in fact, not only that, they're encouraging it from the -- you know, we've got the governor out there encouraging it.
SELLERS: So, violent crime, and I know you like California, so you like to pick on California, but violent crime is 39 percent higher in Texas than it is in California, okay? And Chicago just got done with the least amount of murders in the summer since 1965.
LAMBERT: So, don't let facts get --
(CROSSTALKS)
SELLERS: For murder, okay.
LAMBERT: Whatever statistics you want.
SELLERS: But let's also say this. Let's get -- I mean, if we want to go back to actual -- get away from the facts and go back to what Pam Bondi did today, it was great if you were a criminal defendant, the way she bobbed and weaved, the way she refused to answer questions, the way she deflected. But as you were saying, as the leader of someone, and you're supposed to have that level of independence, neither one of you all can articulate without even -- just don't say Joe Biden, but you cannot say that this Department of Justice is acting independently without mentioning the words, Joe Biden.
PHILLIP: She dodged that question too about the independence of the DOJ, which has definitely been called into question since Trump literally called her out in a social media post and said she wasn't doing her job. AGANGA-WILLIAMS: Yes. And I think we have to go past calling it to question. I mean, the Department of Justice just openly is not independent anymore. And once we lose that, I think we've lost kind of a critical pillar of our criminal justice system here.
I think what was so sad to watch, and one point here is that she sidestep so many important questions, which she could have stood up for the men and women who were actually in law enforcement. We saw the juxtaposition of her both defending basically the Jan. 6 insurrectionists in one regard, and there's pardons there and President Trump's actions there, and then comparing that to the men and women who were being taken away from doing the actual work.
Dick Durbin talked about this. You have task forces that are being disbanded. And instead of doing the work of focusing on terrorism and focusing on violent and crime, you have those same FBI agents, those same DEA agents now doing other work, doing immigration enforcement.
Now, those are priorities that a president can choose for his executive branch. That is true. But what the attorney general should be doing is speaking to what is best for actual justice, what is best for criminal enforcement, what is best for crime reduction. She isn't a political actor. The attorney general should not be going to Congress and, in my view, acting as a political actor. They should be acting on behalf of the rule of law. And I don't think we saw that today.
LAMBERT: I'm dumbfounded by this independence thing. I mean, we're talking about an FBI under Biden who spied on sitting U.S. senators. We're talking about dozens of Trump officials arrested, arrested and put in jail. We had people put in jail.
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. Hold on a second. As we've said many --
AGANGA-WILLIAMS: He had a day in court and he had a jury.
PHILLIP: -- many, times, many times -- Hal, you're saying all that. But if you're going to say that, you got to show me the evidence that any of that was directed by Joe Biden.
Now, I can show you evidence of Donald Trump directing investigations into James Comey, into Letitia James, into all of these other people. But if you can provide me evidence of Joe Biden directing the prosecution of any of those people, then we can come back and we'll have another segment on it.
LAMBERT: Okay. The Biden administration, Joe Biden was --
PHILLIP: But I don't think that evidence exists. In fact, I know it doesn't exist.
LAMBERT: Well, they didn't have an autopen for that.
PHILLIP: So, the supposition is all you're going on, but that's not enough to prove weaponization. It's just not enough.
NAVARRO: Right. And it's the same DOJ that prosecuted Joe Biden's son.
PHILLIP: We got to go. Temidayo, thank you very much for being here, we appreciate you.
Next for us, the socialist frontrunner in New York is taking heat from both the left and the right tonight after his statement on the second anniversary of the October 7th terrorist attacks. We will be here to debate that next
[22:30:01]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Tonight on the two-year anniversary of the Hamas' attack on Israel, the socialist frontrunner in New York's mayoral race is under fire from both the left and the right. On social media, Zohran Mamdani honored the victims and then turned his attention to the war, saying the U.S. is complicit in Israel's genocide in Gaza.
[22:35:00]
He wrote that "Every day in Gaza has become a place where grief itself has run out of language." Israel responded, accusing him of acting as a mouthpiece for Hamas propaganda.
It is fascinating to me, and Ana, you had him on the view a couple weeks -- a week ago actually. But it's fascinating to me at this stage, I mean, you know, he's likely to win this race based on where polling is now, that he's put out that statement knowing full well it's going to be controversial. He must strongly believe that this is not something that will imperil his chances.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, he's so far ahead, right? And Andrew Cuomo, his closest competitor, you almost have to take his pulse or put a mirror under his nose to make sure he's still alive, that his campaign is still alive. But to me, this is an unforced error. I think there are 364 days in the year, other days in the year, where if you want to two-side the issue, you can.
But to me, October 7th is a sacred day to mark the horror that was inflicted on Israel and its people to think about the victims, think about the dead, to think about the hostages, those still being held alive and dead, and to just focus on that.
It is October 7th. It is not October 8th, it is not October 12th, it's not October 20th, it's not September 20th. So, I just don't understand why he had to go into all of that. One short sentence expressing grief and solidarity with the people, the victims of October 7th and denouncing Hamas would have done it.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It is, and you can have some nuance here. You can actually show that grief. You can show that solidarity. And also show that solidarity with the people of Israel and still draw a very big, thick line between you and Bibi Netanyahu. I think that's fair.
NAVARRO: But not today.
SELLERS: But not today. I think to Ana's point, today is a day where you should actually have the wherewithal. And I was talking to some friends earlier. And this is -- this is why a lot of people have a great deal of trouble with him being mayor of New York because this is a big job.
The lights are on. You have to put on your big boy pants. He even said he would arrest Bibi Netanyahu if he touched ground in New York City which is a bold proclamation to make.
PHILLIP: Yeah.
SELLERS: And so, you should not be -- especially in a city like New York.
NAVARRO: Whether you went --
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: But not only -- but not only that. But you're also the leader of all people.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, let me just -- I mean --
SELLERS: Let me just put a pin on it real quick -- in the city of New York where you have a lot of Jews in this city who feel persecuted every single day. And I just think that, yes, we can actually show that grief for babies dying in Gaza. We can show that grief for the war in Gaza, but today, you should have a level of empathy for your Jewish brethren in the city.
PHILLIP: Yeah, I mean, I think all of that is right, but you have to also look at what's happening in this race. According to "The New York Times", Mamdani is polling well with a substantial portion of New York Jews, slightly less than a majority. But specifically, he is strong among younger Jews who are more likely than their parents and grandparents to agree with his criticisms of Israel.
And just yesterday, "The Washington Post" had a poll of Jewish Americans. And I was actually surprised by this. Sixty-three or 33 percent -- I think this is -- this is mixed up. But 63 percent say that war crimes against Palestinians in Gaza have been committed by Israel, and 33 percent said genocide has been committed against Palestinians by Israel.
So, there is a weird thing happening where in this moment, he's taking a position that is very controversial, but he's doing well in this city with a lot of Jewish New Yorkers. And especially among younger Jewish New Yorkers.
REP. PETE MEIJER (R) FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN, MICHIGAN: And you mentioned that maybe this is not the day to put out the statement. There's another time. I mean, the reason he put out the statement and the reason why he's not going to see blowback is because this is what his voters want to see.
This is what his supporters want to see. I will leave that to your side of the aisle to look in the mirror and reflect on whether or not that's the constituency that, you know, the Democratic Party should have but that's the reality today.
HAL LAMBERT, POINT BRIDGE CAPITAL FOUNDER AND CEO: One, Peter, I think it's also telling who he didn't blame. He blamed the Jews in America for, quote, "genocide", okay? Well --
PHILLIP: He didn't -- I don't want to -- look. Let's be accurate. He did not blame the Jews in America.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: No, the Jews and America.
PHILLIP: Okay.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: He blamed Israel --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Yeah. That's what it sounded like. I heard --
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: Sorry, the Jews and America.
PHILLIP: Yeah. Thank you.
LAMBERT: -- for the court genocide --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: He blamed -- again, Israel.
LAMBERT: Okay.
PHILLIP: All right? Israel is not synonymous with Jews, okay?
LAMBERT: But a lot of people think of it that way. But I'll just -- he didn't blame were any of the Muslim countries around the area that refused to take any Palestinians in. Those Palestinians that are now dead, none of the countries around them will let them come there. They won't let them come in.
And why doesn't he talk about that? He's blaming America for Israel attacking and killing people in Gaza.
[22:40:02]
That's what he did. And yet he didn't say one thing about the other countries not letting any Palestinians leave. SELLERS: I mean, I think that there has to be a level of empathy when
you are evaluating and looking at what's happening in Gaza today. I mean you cannot sit here without a heart and say that there are too many innocent women and children dying in Gaza.
You can also say that October 7th was a day that we should hold in sacrilege, something that should be sacred, that the country of Israel, the state of Israel should not have to go through that. And it's very difficult to bring two groups to the table when Hamas doesn't believe Israel has a right to exist.
You can also say Bibi Netanyahu is an impediment to peace. Like all of these things can be said and you can actually have some nuance about this discussion. My problem with Mamdani is that on a day like today, it doesn't show the political savvy in actually throwing this grenade out.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: But he has shown the rest of the campaign because I mean, part of the reason that he's so far ahead is because he a pretty good campaign.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, maybe this is to Peter's point. He understands his constituency and he's campaigning in a way that he -- I mean, I don't know if you remember this, in the -- of the debates, one of the moments that really allowed him to break through was when every other candidate on the stage said that they would go to Israel and he didn't. And so, he understands his constituency. I mean, you can debate whether it is beyond this day.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I take it -- but that's clear that he is speaking to the people.
SELLERS: But I disagree. And I think that -- I think that if he believes that he's speaking to his constituency, then he's missing the vote, because everybody wants to see him be mayor of the entire city of New York.
Right now, his constituency is not a select group of voters that are going to vote in this prime, or this general election coming up because everybody knows that he's going to be the next mayor of New York City. So, people want to see him show that leadership. That's all we're asking.
PHILLIP: Yeah, and certainly could have devoted more than one paragraph, I guess, of a three-paragraph statement to the victims and the hostages.
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: That is still there. (CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: If he had left it at that one paragraph, it would have been a better statement than what he ended up doing.
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: Or meet with the families, as well. Meet with the family of hostages.
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: I don't know if he has done that.
NAVARRO: I don't know either.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, and I will say he was at -- he was at a vigil tonight in New York for peace -- Jews for Peace vigil tonight in the city. So, there is that. Coming up next for us, it's the kind of story that could be a country song. Zach Bryan faces off with the Department of Homeland Security of all things. We'll debate how that's going, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:47:01]
PHILLIP: As tensions rise in Portland and Chicago amid the debate over nationwide ICE raids, the Department of Homeland Security is busy trolling Zach Bryan. After the country singer released a snippet of a new song that seems to call out the government, here's the response from DHS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
PHILLIP: In case you weren't familiar, that is a Zach Bryan song they're playing underneath video of ICE officers there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Now, the Navy veteran says that his song is about how much he loves the country and that those using it as a weapon are proving how divided we are. He adds, "Left wing or right wing, we're all one bird, an American," and "to be clear, I am not on either of these radical sides."
We are also hearing from Kamala Harris, a former vice president who spoke at a summit about the current political moment that we're in. A warning now, the former vice president uses a pretty bad word.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS (D) FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: There is so much about this moment that is trying to make people feel like they've lost their minds when in fact, these (explicit) are crazy.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Well, that's new.
NAVARRO: No, it's not.
SELLERS: Not from her.
NAVARRO: No, it's not. No, it's not.
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: I don't know. That sounds not her to me.
PHILLIP: I mean, it's new for the rest of the country to see that side of her. But let me just, let's start with Zach Bryan for a second, because I think that this is emblematic of where we are as a country, where the country singer, he has a line in the song about ICE. Conservatives don't like it and now the government is attacking him for it. Really?
LAMBERT: Well, you know this is what musicians really ought to stay out of politics. I mean, he put this in a song for a reason.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: Well, I mean, look. Again, ICE officials are just doing their job, you know, and he's attacking them really in a song.
PHILLIP: Is he allowed to do that?
LAMBERT: Of course, he is. But you know what? About 70 percent of rural voters voted for Trump. That's the key constituency for country music. So, he's really going to piss off a lot of his base of music lovers. But here's the thing. Here's the little secret a lot of people don't know. Many of these Nashville singers have his same views. They're liberal. Many of them are and --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I mean, I'm going to take his -- I'm going to take his word on it because he's not so much -- he just publicly has not been strongly political. He's had nicest things to say about Donald Trump after his assassination attempt. But I mean, does it -- is there a little part of you that wonders, if Zach Bryan's willing to put that in a country song, are there more people who are kind of wondering what's going on here in this country in terms of what's happening with ICE?
MEIJER: No, there certainly are. I mean, you see the polling though, and this is still a broadly supported initiative in terms of going after --
[22:50:00]
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I wouldn't describe it that way.
NAVARRO: No, it's not.
PHILLIP: It's not broadly supported.
(CROSSTALK)
MEIJER: It's about 50 percent.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Look, Trump's approval rating on immigration is not positive. It's actually in the red.
SELLERS: Yeah, correct.
NAVARRO: The border is positive. Immigration enforcement is not.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Immigration enforcement is not. So, I mean, I do think that there are some questions here about how the American people feel. You know, they like that the border is closed, but how do they feel about the interior enforcement and how it's being carried out, I think is kind of what this is about.
MEIJER: Yeah, and you know, the most sympathetic cases are obviously getting elevated to the top. And I do wish, especially for some of the folks who, you know, made one mistake and, you know, there have been efforts by members of Congress to go to bat for folks, and I think that's actually a pretty appropriate route.
The challenge is that then outweighs the, oh, here, by the way, is a, you know, serial sexual offender who was released multiple times, who had a deportation order for several years.
SELLERS: Jeffrey Epstein? Oh, I'm sorry.
MEIJER: Oh, no, no, he's dead. I don't if you heard about that.
SELLERS: You said released.
(CROSSTALK)
MEIJER: I don't think you can deport him.
SELLERS: Go ahead. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
MEIJER: I'm not sure what --
SELLERS: Go ahead.
MEIJER: I'm not going to go to that.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIP: I mean, well, look. I mean, as you pointed out, you know, members of Congress, Republican members of Congress, by the way, have stepped in to save their constituents from deportation who are law- abiding people, who are out of legal status, sometimes not people who cross the border illegally, by the way, just people who, as many millions of people are in this country who are out of status.
But that's okay. But then the Trump administration is also just snatching people off the street. And I think those stories are getting to people.
NAVARRO: And the line in the song, and by the way, you know, full confession, I had no idea who Zach Bryan was before this, so I'm not even mad at you all who don't know Bad Bunny anymore. The line in the song is, "ICE is going to come, bust down your door," and he talks about children being scared and all alone.
If you have been following what is happening in this country, you have seen ICE bust down doors. Just in the last few days, what we saw in Chicago was agents rappelling down from Black Hawk helicopters into a residential building in the middle of the night, grabbing people, some who were naked in the bed, zip-tying children, having them wait.
Some of them were U.S. citizens. Some of them were U.S. citizens' children. So, if you've been following, I think you have seen the trauma. You've seen the hunting down of Latinos. You've seen the racial profiling. This week also, or in the last several days, Theo Von, who is a -- has been a pro-Trump blogger, ICE -- DHS used a clip of him in an ad and he had an issue with it. Turns out the guy's father's from Nicaragua, and an immigrant.
And so, you know, I think people are beginning to open up their eyes that it's not the worst of the wars that are being taken. It's their neighbors. And the people -- and the children who play with their children.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: That's what the media would like you to believe.
PHILLIP: All right. We got to go. All right.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: No, it's not what the media would like you to believe. We see it every day. If that was train at Iowa there would be evidence that there was train at Iowa. And there were criminals, there would be evidence there were criminals. You know what there is evidence of?
LAMBERT: But there is evidence. There is evidence.
NAVARRO: There is evidence that the majority of people who have been grabbed are people with out criminal records, and many of them have become undocumented because TPS has ended because programs that made them legal here have ended.
LAMBERT: Biden opened the -- Biden opened the border.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: So, don't tell me -- you can say whatever the hell you want about the border but don't come here and lie about most of them being criminals because that is simply false.
LAMBERT: You're making it the sympathetic argument.
NAVARRO: No, I'm making the sympathetic argument. I am making the factual argument. The majority of the people who have been grabbed and detained, deported, disappeared are people without criminal records. Period.
LAMBERT: And you don't have the stats on that, either but I'm just going to say this.
NAVARRO: Go, look it up.
PHILLIP: Okay. All right.
NAVARRO: CNN has reported the stats.
PHILLIP: All right, next for us, the panel is going to give us their nightcaps, "Million-dollar Competition" edition. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:58:29]
PHILLIP: We're back. Organizers of the Australian Open announced the million dollar one point slam, giving tennis amateurs a chance to play against the professionals including Carlos Alcaraz. So, for tonight's nightcap, what talent or skill of yours would you trust up against a pro? Bakari, you're up first.
SELLERS: I actually do think I am a pro at this. But I would say closing arguments. I would love to have Drew Findling, one of the best criminal defense lawyers that I know, Sean Kent, Jacks or any of those other people up on the other side.
I mean, I think the gold standard, of course, is third-year marshal and Johnnie Cochran. But I'm pretty good at what I do. I'm a damn good lawyer, so I think I can hold my own particularly four million bucks.'
PHILLIP: Let's see Bakari in a courtroom on a high-profile case. We'll take it live.
PHILLIP: Hal? LAMBERT: I thought about this. I think Texas Hold Em. I'll just go with it the poker game. We'll see -- we'll play for $1 million. We don't know how long it will be if it's a short one, I have a chance. If it goes on for eight or seven hours, no, I'll probably lose it.
PHILLIP: All right. I like your odds in a poker game, Hal. All right, Peter.
MEIJER: Oh, give me Jeopardy all day long. I mean, I would love the chance, and especially if you make it like a, not an SNL congressional Jeopardy, just a normal congressional Jeopardy. Because I'd also love to show some of the members of Congress that I served with, both those who seem to be smart and are secretly idiots and those who seem to be idiots but are secretly --
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: You didn't know the difference between Luke Bryan and the other Bryan.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Let me tell you something. You don't need Jeopardy to show those stupid members of Congress.
[23:00:00]
Oh, I want Cha-Cha to compete and to go up against the Westminster dog show dogs, okay? Because --
PHILLIP: Look at her.
NAVARRO: I look at these dogs in that Westminster show and I think to myself, my dog is way smarter and definitely cuter and nicer and has more charisma and everything else than all those dogs. So, for a million bucks, I will put Cha-Cha in the Westminster Dog Show and we will win it, Cha-Cha.
PHILLIP: Hundred percent more charisma from Cha-Cha. Everyone, thank you so much. Thanks for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
