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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Outlets, Including CNN And Fox, Refuse To Sign Pentagon Pledge; Meta Removes Page Tracking Ice Movements Amid DOJ Pressure; Trump Bails Out Biggest Fan Argentina With $20 Billion; Politico Exposes Leaked Messages From Young Republicans On Racism; Jake Tapper Tackles Terror Prosecution In His New Book. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 14, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, the censor-in-chief.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Press is very dishonest.
PHILLIP: Media outlets rebuke Pete Hegseth's attempt to control them, including his former network. So, the Pentagon is kicking them out.
Plus, the America first president continues to fire American workers --
TRUMP: They're never going to open again.
PHILLIP: -- while bailing out Argentina.
TRUMP: It's MAGA all the way. It's make Argentina great again.
PHILLIP: And J.D. Vance downplays a leaked racist chat involving young Republicans.
Live at the table, Ana Navarro, Ben Ferguson, Keith Boykin and Kristin Davison.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Philip in New York.
Let's get right to what America's talking about, government censorship. It's something that candidate Donald Trump promised that he would end, but nine months in, it has become a staple of his administration. Tonight, Donald Trump is endorsing Pete Hegseth's plan to ban Pentagon journalists from publishing stories that his team has not pre-approved.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I think he finds the press to be very disruptive in terms of world peace and maybe security for our nation. Press is very dishonest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Now a host of networks, including CNN, and Hegseth's former employer, Fox, have rebuked his new rules, saying that the policies without precedent and threatens core journalistic protections. Hegseth has said that outlets who did not agree to the new rules by today at 5:00 P.M. will be kicked out of the Pentagon tomorrow. And it comes as Donald Trump announces another strike, which he claims killed six terrorists off the coast of Venezuela.
Joining us at the table is CNN Media Analyst Sara Fischer. She's Axios' media correspondent. And, Sara, Pete Hegseth seems pretty determined to ban what is basic journalism, which is that you're trying to find out things that the Pentagon as an institution doesn't want you to know. And that seems to be the point, is to stop journalism from happening at the Pentagon.
SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: But it's going to backfire, Abby. Every time you try to tell journalists not to look somewhere, they're going to double down. And so that's the irony of this whole thing. My prediction is going to be that news outlets will invest even more in covering the Pentagon from the outside if they're not going to get the access on the inside.
But you bring up a good point. Every press freedom group says this goes and violates basic constitutional rights, supporting the First Amendment, supporting the freedom of the press. And that's why you're seeing not a single outlet except, for One American News, pledging to sign that policy.
PHILLIP: Even Newsmax saying no to this, Fox saying no to this. I mean, honestly, it seems like just this seems like a flub, one of many, frankly, for this Pentagon, but they're doubling down. Do you think that they should just back down on this?
KRISTIN DAVISON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, you know, you're, the press, you're going to fight for more access. It's totally within your right to do that, but you have to be consistent. So, this isn't the first administration to try to control the press and we know where they come. I would argue that this administration is the most accessible. You could probably text the president right now and get an answer on something.
Look, they're not telling you not to go and write stories. They're controlling who's coming into there, just like they would any military base. On May 14th, 2013, 50 organizations wrote the Obama administration and said, it is not right that you are surveilling the cell phones of Associated Press reporters.
So, let's just take a step back. You can definitely fight for more access for the press, but you have to be consistent. It shouldn't just be now in the Hegseth administration. And also -- Well, I think, that didn't you make that point? I mean, you just made the point that the press actually did push back on, so there is consistency there.
DAVISON: Well, for sure. But I don't see -- you know, I don't think anyone here pushed back on the Obama administration in 2013.
PHILLIP: I mean, every -- actually all --
DAVISON: But also the bigger point is --
PHILLIP: I mean, but you just said so. I mean, the press did strongly push back against the Obama administration at that time. And I'll add one more thing to it. When Obama tried to blackball Fox News, all the other news outlets came out in defense of their correspondents.
DAVISON: So, I would agree that Obama was probably even more in terms of trying to control the press and shut it down. But even there's a bigger problem with media now, and this is why I don't believe there'll be a public backlash to this.
[22:05:00]
I mean, just, look, there was an anchor on this own channel that had to apologize today because they were saying that the Palestinian hostages totally misrepresented a glorious moment in our history and for the world peace. And some anchor on this channel had to apologize for how they depicted it.
So, the distrust with the media is --
PHILLIP: Well, hold on. Well, look, let me just draw a clear line here. Because people in the media don't say that we're infallible. We're not God, we don't not make mistakes. We do make mistakes and we correct them. That is actually how journalism works. But also how journalism works is that we are actually supposed to try to find out things that people don't want us to find out, and that includes at the Pentagon. You know that every administration has dealt with that.
BEN FERGUSON, HOST, THE BEN FERGUSON SHOW: Look, I'm a member of the media as a talk show host. I want to have access. I think one of the big things, though, that you've -- people are underestimating is the American people look at a lot of the media now as not actually members of the media. They look at them as people that put out propaganda for one side. And there are a lot of people that are in the media that are operatives for the Democratic Party. I don't think you're going to see --
PHILLIP: Well, you don't think yourself in that? Because you just described yourself as some --
FERGUSON: I'm open and honest about who I am. I'm a hardcore conservative. I don't masquerade as a non-biased individual who's doing hit pieces all the time on conservatives.
PHILLIP: Sure. But I don't think conservatives -- I mean, look, conservatives don't have any problem with people masquerading as journalists and batting for one team, okay? That happens every single day and you are totally fine with it.
FERGUSON: But I'm a commentator.
PHILLIP: So, spare me on that part. I mean, I think that that's a little bit of self-serving.
FERGUSON: They're not self-serving. I'm honest about being a biased conservative commentator that works in the media. I'm not lying when I go to the Pentagon acting like I'm a non-biased journalist who's then doing hit pieces only on conservatives, which happens a lot. It's why Americans are not outraged over this.
PHILLIP: There are Pentagon reporters who work for right-leaning outlets who say that this is anti-freedom of the press. So, that's not --
FERGUSON: And I understand the press -- there's two different things here. I understand the press all correlating together and saying, hey, this is wrong. I get that. I understand it. What I'm saying is I think there's a lot of Americans know they're going to say this is not that outrageous.
PHILLIP: But what do you actually think? No. What do you actually think about what they're doing here?
FERGUSON: I think the press is still going to be able to cover the Pentagon.
PHILLIP: No. But what do you think about the decision -- what do you think about the decision to try to get media outlets to sign a declaration that they won't do journalism in order to get press credentials? Do you think that's actually a good idea, like honestly think it's a good idea?
FERGUSON: I wouldn't put this out there, but I understand the reasoning behind it. And it goes back to why I think there's not a lot of outrage right now from the American people, because they do understand that the media, many of them, masquerade as journalists when they're really putting out propaganda of the left. And so they're like, dude, you kind of deserved it.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think there's not bigger outrage because there's so many things to be outraged about that it's hard to pick one. But also, you know, for me, what's very significant is that this has finally happened and in the sense that, finally, the different outlets and media platforms are banding together and pushing back as one. It should have happened, frankly, nine months ago, when Trump kicked the A.P. out of the Oval Office for not referring to the Gulf of Mexico as the Gulf of Mexico.
FISCHER: Well, Newsmax and Fox did sign a letter supporting the White House Correspondents Association and saying that was wrong. So, like it's, to me, feels --
NAVARRO: But it wasn't everybody like it is right now. This is --
FISCHER: It was the vast majority of them. And that moment, to me, signified that when we saw this deadline coming, I felt more confident because of that, that news outlets were going to band together.
NAVARRO: I always felt that, you know, when that Oval Office thing happened, I always felt, okay, you know what? If they kick the A.P. out, then everybody should leave in solidarity with and let him cover himself. Let see how he likes to do --
FISCHER: They all signed a letter. And I think to Fox News's credit, Jacqui Heinrich, their White House correspondent, she very vividly said, like this could be setting a precedent that impacts us in a Democratic administration, and I think that's how a lot of people feel right now.
The theory is it's a slippery slope. If you are a right-leaning outlet, if you endorse this policy, if you sign this, then what are you suggesting for the next time that a Democrat --
(CROSSTALKS)
NAVARRO: (INAUDIBLE) Ted Cruz said when the FCC chair --
FISCHER: Correct.
PHILLIP: Let me just remind you what Donald Trump has said or had said about free speech and what he was going to do when he was president. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And I banned all government censorship and restored free speech in America.
I have stopped all government censorship and brought back free speech in America. It's back.
We brought back free speech to America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I think the government censorship, I suppose, is back.
KEITH BOYKIN, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE AIDE: Trump was very clearly not consistent about that because he doesn't want censorship of his views, but he is willing to censor other views. But I was just reading a quote from Thomas Jefferson. And Jefferson years ago said, were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I would not hesitate to choose the latter.
[22:10:08]
The idea is that we can't have a government in this country without some sort of accountability. You have to have independent media, independent journalists who can go to the Pentagon and question the Pentagon.
FERGUSON: See, I love your idea.
BOYKIN: And write stories about the Pentagon regardless of who the president is.
And I think the danger where Republicans are going right now, Ben, is that they're justifying everything that's happening that they would never allow to happen if a Democrat, if Joe Biden were doing this.
(CROSSTALKS)
BOYKIN: I'm literally talking about if Joe Biden said, you can't cover -- you can't be in the Pentagon --
FERGUSON: Do you do not remember the last Democrat's White House?
BOYKIN: Do you hear what I'm saying? The exact same circumstances, you can't cover the Pentagon unless you sign a pledge to let us review your project here. That's what Trump laid out.
FISCHER: I think that sometimes there's a false equivalency. Because one thing I remember when I was covering the Biden administration, there was pressure from Biden administration officials to the platforms to take down certain COVID misinformation. So, I'm not trying to say that this doesn't happen in Democratic administrations. However --
BOYKIN: And I'm not saying that either. I'm saying --
(CROSSTALKS)
FISCHER: It's at a different extreme now. At least from the Obama administration, you know, John Kirby and others, you would hear from these officials and there would be tons of press conferences. What's going to happen when there's no press credential to join Pentagon?
FERGUSON: They're still going to cover the Pentagon.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Sara brings up and interesting -- that point about the pressure on the media companies. Just today, Pam Bondi, the attorney general, says that today following outreach from the Justice Department, Facebook removed a large group page that was being used to dox and target ICE government agents in Chicago. Essentially -- so that's Facebook. Apple, and Google also blocked apps that crowdsource ICE sightings and some warn of a chilling effect. So --
FERGUSON: Protecting law enforcement --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on, just a second, just a second. Let's not go overboard here, okay? Doxxing is a specific thing, right?
FEGUSON: That's what they're doing in these groups.
PHILLIP: Hold on. Doxxing is a specific thing. Doxxing is taking private information and making it public. What these apps were -- some of them were doing was having people report what they saw with their own eyes, things that were happening out in the public. So, that is not, by any definition, about doxxing. It is not that.
(CROSSTALKS)
FERGUSON: The proof, if it was that simplistic, I would agree with you, but it's not. If you look at the comments that were there, and I read some of them literally on my show today --
PHILLIP: Okay.
FERGUSON: -- of the comments, it was about who they were, identified them, exposed them, who is this guy, here's a picture.
(CROSSTALKS)
FERGUSON: That's putting their lives at risk.
PHILLIP: But let me just address this for one second, because you can take issue with what individual people are saying perhaps, right, but they're taking the entire platform down. And I would ask a question of you this way. What happens if some individual, just a regular person said -- posts on X, there's an ICE agent outside of my door, I live at this address, will the federal government then pressure X to take that post down?
FERGUSON: I know Democrats would pressure in the past for COVID, and they did exactly that on anything they didn't like. They were like, hey, we don't like this person or what they're saying. That happened --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: I'm asking you about asking being evenhanded about this, okay? So, if you think the COVID stuff is bad, are you saying that it's okay for the Justice Department to say to platforms, if someone posts that they see an ICE agent outside of their door and they post the address where they live, that that post can be taken down? Do you think that -- how is that not what this is?
FERGUSON: It's not -- but this is where you're muddying the waters in a way that I think is just disingenuous.
PHILLIP: I'm not. I'm not in --
FERGUSON: And that is what they censored on Facebook today.
PHILLIP: They censored the entire --
FERGUSON: It was a group chat about where are the ICE agents with people doxxing the ICE agents.
BOYKIN: No.
DAVISON: With their names.
(CROSSTALKS)
FERGUSON: That's what it was, you all. Those were their comments.
PHILLIP: But, Ben, you're acknowledging that they took the entire group down.
FERGUSON: Yes, because the entire group was dangerous to the lives of ICE agents.
PHILLIP: Because that includes people who were not doing what you described. Because I'm not disputing that maybe there were some people putting out the names of ICE agents, which, by the way, I am not sure is considered doxxing, right? If you're a law enforcement agent, your name --
FISCHER: It's personally identifiable information. That's your address, your email, that's your phone.
PHILLIP: Exactly. But the name of a law enforcement officer or agent is not --
FERGUSON: Where does this guy live and who is he? It's doxxing 101.
FISCHER: No, it's not. It's not from a legal perspective and it's not from an operation perspective.
FERGUSON: No, let me -- wait. If there's a police officer or an ICE agent whose picture is put up in a group chat on Facebook that is about ICE and it says, let's expose this person, somebody tell me who he is, where he lives.
[22:15:04]
FISCHER: Okay. I'm going to be real with you. That's not doxxing.
FERGUSON: Do you think that's not doxxing?
FISCHER: It's definitely not.
FERGUSON: You don't think that that's putting your lives at risk?
FISCHER: No. Doxxing is when you actually pay somebody's personal identifiable information, PII, which is an email address or phone number or physical address. I'm not saying that what you're saying isn't bad. It's just not --
FERGUSON: I'm saying it's dangerous.
FISCHER: I'm not saying it isn't. But it's not because you're doxxing when it comes to these policies --
(CROSSTALKS) NAVARRO: Ben, they're not actually a legal definition of doxxing. It's not up to your --
PHILLIP: And not to mention --
NAVARRO: It's not a subjective definition.
(CROSSTALKS)
FERGUSON: Ana, if some place (INAUDIBLE) in your family.
NAVARRO: They do it to you. They have that.
FERGUSON: And that's why I'm defending it. I'm saying this is wrong.
PHILLIP: Ben, just give me one second.
BOYKIN: Ben, just chill for a second.
PHILLIP: Ben, just give me one second. I have been doxxed. I have had my personal identifying information put on the internet. I've had my family's address, they don't work here at CNN, put on the internet. That is not a crime. It's not a crime. And I'm asking you if you want the government to be in a position where anytime that somebody posts a picture, an address, public information, by the way, of people who are in law enforcement positions, that information gets taken down, that's really the standard that you want to set?
FERGUSON: I will say this, if there was a page on Facebook tonight that decided to put out all of our family's information and let's go after these people in media in a clear way of a threat to any of our lives, I would say that I would want that taken down. I don't think that makes me crazy or anti-American or anti-free speech.
PHILLIP: From a normative perspective, sure, we would all want that taken down. But the question is, what should the government be doing? And I think that you've taken a stand against the government being involved in taking down COVID misinformation or what have you. I just don't understand --
FERGUSON: No. I'm just (INAUDIBLE) there was no outrage then when it was going on. You guys do not freak out --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Yes. I don't understand how you can do that and then not be --
(CROSSTALKS)
FISCHER: No, it was actually Meta and Google that he was pressuring and we were definitely getting --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Let me just answer your question, Kristin, and then we have to go to answer your question. I'll read again. This is Pam Bondi's tweet. She says, following outreach from the Justice Department, Facebook removed a large group page that was used to docs and target ICE agents.
DAVISON: Maybe because they reached outreach to say this is a mob mentality, it's dangerous to law enforcement.
PHILLIP: But to answer your question, this was a direct outreach from the government. And so that's the part of this that we're talking about here.
DAVISON: The outreach wrong. That's for what? To prevent a dangerous situation?
PHILLIP: Hey, look, you are making the argument for the government to be engaged in preventing dangerous information from being out there and you should be totally fine with the government outreach to prevent dangerous information about COVID from being out there. I just think that if you're going to do one thing, you got to do the other. Otherwise it doesn't make any sense. So, that's really the point.
FERGUSON: There's threats on the page that was taken down.
BOYKIN: But, see, the thing is you're willing to justify the government intrusion when it serves your needs.
FERGUSON: Not threatening enforcement?
BOYKIN: Absolutely, I'm in favor to them. But would you really justify when it serves your needs but not --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Sara Fischer, thank you very much for joining us. Thank you all.
Next for us, the president is confronted on why he is bailing out Argentina with $20 billion while Americans suffer from his tariffs.
Plus, the vice president is weighing in tonight on that report showing thousands of leaked messages by young Republicans joking about slavery, rape, and gas chambers.
We'll discuss that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: So, in the middle of this government shutdown, when the U.S. doesn't even have the money to fund itself, President Trump is throwing Argentina a lifeline to the tune of $20 billion. That's because the country is at risk of financial collapse. The bailout is coming from U.S. taxpayers at a time when federal workers are furloughed or working without pay, and farmers are hurting because of Trump's policies. Now, Trump met with Argentina's far right libertarian leader today at the White House and threw his full political weight behind him. But he warned the money comes with strings attached.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's really meant to help a good financial philosophy.
I'm with this man because his philosophy is correct, and he may win and he may not win, but I think he's going to win. And if he wins, we're staying with him. And if he doesn't win, we're gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Okay, Ben, help me understand why this is America first.
FERGUSON: I think it's America first because you have allies around the world. I also think you have a lot of American investment in this country and you have to protect that investment of Americans that have gone down there and invested. And I think it's the second part of this. And if you look at how much money we put into that country, I'm talking about businesses, it's significant, so I think there's a play there. And I also think the president understands that if America does pull out and we don't have allies like this in that part of the world, other countries that don't like us are going to come in, specifically China is a great example of that.
You've got Venezuela down there, you have Brazil down there that are obviously the opposite of America. They hate Israel, for example. They've been talking a lot about how they like other allies in their sphere that are literally enemies in the United States of America.
So, I think this is him saying, look, you've got to have allies, you stand with your friends, and we're going to stand with you on this one.
NAVARRO: Listen, he didn't even try to hide why he was doing this. He basically -- Trump basically, expressly said in this press conference that if Milei doesn't win the legislative election -- so let's just put it in context. Last month in September, there was a provincial election in Buenos Aires, the largest city, the capital city of Argentina. Milei's party got beat like a drum. They lost by 13 points.
[22:25:00]
They have midterm legislative elections coming up in 12 days.
Donald Trump is trying to rig the elections in Argentina in the favor of Javier Milei, the same way that he's trying to rig the elections here for the legislative elections next year. Except that instead of doing it by crafting new maps, he's doing it by bailing Milei out, who is a financial disaster to the tune of $20 billion at the same time that soybean farmers in the United States are hurting desperately, soybeans, which are one of the largest export products of Argentina.
So, literally, this is detrimental to American soybean farmers helping Argentina in order to put -- to help Milei's party win the election in 12 days. He basically said to, if he doesn't win to, we're out.
PHILLIP: To your point, the soybean piece of this kind of contradicts what you're saying because Argentina, even as this is -- even as this is happening, Argentina is actually -- they're over here playing with China and buying and allowing China to buy their soybeans. Trump is pissed off about it. He says, I believe that China purposefully is not buying our soybeans. We're considered terminating business with China having to do with cooking oil and other elements of trade as retribution but not Argentina, which is the vehicle by which China is screwing over American farmers.
And soybean -- the president of the American Soybean Association said, you know, the soybean prices are falling, harvest is underway, farmers read headlines about not securing a trade agreement with China, but that the United States government is extending a $20 billion economic support to Argentina. It's unfair, is what they're saying.
DAVISON: Well, I think the people who sent Trump to the White House include a lot of those soybean farmers. And so if we're talking about this from a political standpoint, I think most of the voters trust President Trump, really trust the Treasury secretary, Scott Bessent. I can't think of anyone who is more knowledgeable or I trust more on the economy than him. And they trust Trump to work through this process, to get a deal with China.
Him kind of standing up saying, China, we're not taking this, that kind of is the definition of America first.
BOYKIN: Yes.
DAVISON: When you look at, you know -- let me finish.
PHILLIP: He's saying what to China?
DAVISON: When he pushed back on soybeans and saying that we were going to strike deal. But when you look at these groups -- let me finish my thought.
(CROSSTALKS)
FERGUSON: He's saying a lot with tariffs. That's saying an awful lot. (INAUDIBLE) say much we have tariffs on China, let's be clear.
DAVISON: You have the soybean farmers and if this is who we're talking about, like we have to worry and they're the ones who are going to be upset from what (INAUDIBLE) is doing.
Look at who those voters support. By 34 points, those voters support Trump and the Republican Party, not Democrats. And it's because -- we can sit here and say, why is Trump doing this? Because he is the one that is offering it to voters to improve the economy, to bring America first --
PHILLIP: I'm just asking us to apply, you know, just look at the situation as it is, not look at it through some political -- backwards political -- DAVISON: You just said we were rigging the election.
PHILLIP: Hold on a second, not a backward political lens, because I think you're correctly pointing out that, yes, these are his supporters. But I'm asking you about what's happening right now, which is that they are actually hurting because of his policies. They're saying so. They're begging for a bailout to the point that his own agriculture secretary was begging Scott Bessent to bail out farmers and to not do this deal with Argentina.
So, look. I mean, even within the Trump administration, there are people who think that this is a bad idea, both politically and practically.
BOYKIN: China bought $12.8 billion worth of soybeans from the United States last year. This year, they bought none. That's a huge hit for American farmers.
DAVISON: Absolutely.
BOYKIN: And the idea that Trump is now playing in footsy with Argentina, while Argentina is selling its soybeans to China, it's a slap in the face to American farmers.
FERGUSON: And I think that --
(CROSSTALKS)
BOYKIN: Hey, just let me speak for a moment, my gosh. And it's a slap in the face to American farmers, a slap in the face to government workers who are now out of work, not being paid for two weeks while Trump is giving $20 billion to a foreign government. It's --
PHILLIP: Why is it that --
DAVISON: This is why I believe the faith in the president makes a difference.
PHILLIP: Let me ask one other question. Why is it okay for the Trump administration to take failed economic policies in another country and literally put American tax dollars to bail those failed policies out? Why is that okay?
NAVARRO: Because Milei has been sucking up to him for years, because he likes Meel and because he likes to reward those that suck up to him and punish those that don't.
PHILLIP: Sure. But what's your view of this? Because I don't understand --
FERGUSON: There's two different things --
PHILLIP: I don't understand why -- you know, if the economic policies are good and right, it should not result in a foreign country needing to bail out the entire economy. FERGUSON: You may not like the friendship here that the president has of the country that is, he believes, a friend in an ally of the United States of America.
[22:30:00]
You can go back to Joe Biden's exact words by a guy, by the way, that doesn't really like America, quote, it was great sitting down with my friend and partner in democracy, Lula, at the White House.
My friend and partner in democracy, a guy that's completely not in favor of democracy, who also went to Maduro's swearing in. And oh, by the way, he said that --
PHILLIP: But did Joe Biden bail out Lula?
FERGUSON: I think he clearly had policies that were nice. They were clear--
PHILLIP: Did he bail him out?
FERGUSON: I, again, I go back to what I--
PHILLIP: Ben, did he bail him out to the tune of $20 billion or not?
FERGUSON: He didn't send $20 billion directly.
PHILLIP: Ok. Did he do it or not?
FERGUSON: The difference for this President is when he says he's going to do something, he does it. The other President says, come to the White House, man of democracy, where he's going to plead office of democracy.
NAVARRO: Trump told the soybean farmers that voted for him last year that he was going to bail out Argentina to their detriment--
FERGUSON: No, the president of the United States--
NAVARRO: -- that he was going to make it possible so that China would be buying from Argentina instead of the United States?
FERGUSON: I would go back to what the President said today. The President said today he's angry at China for not buying soybean. I think you're going to see a very big course correction there.
He has done this through tariffs, I believe he's going to win, just like he's winning everywhere else around the country.
BOYKIN: Yes, he's won. He's got China to buy soybeans this year, right?
FERGUSON: I can tell you who's-- again, a tariff war is a tariff war. Like, it's a big boy game. And when you play a big boy game, it takes some time.
NAVARRO: Ben, there are going to be farmers declaring bankruptcy because of this.
FERGUSON: I wish you guys cared this much about farmers in the last four, five, six years.
PHILLIP: Ben, let me--
FERGUSON: I really do.
KRISTIN DAVINSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: They're guaranteed, they're going to trust Trump more than--
FERGUSON: They voted for Trump.
PHILLIP: Hold on a second.
DAVINSON: And they will --
I come from a farming community. My father was a minister of agriculture. I know more about--
FERGUSON: Farmers voted for Trump.
Yes.
FERGUSON: Farmers voted for Trump.
BOYKIN: Not because of a soybean bankruptcy. That's for sure.
FERGUSON: They voted for Trump because you guys abandoned farmers for decades.
PHILLIP: Only one at a time, please. Just one second. Okay?
Hold on. Hold on.
Okay, look.
At the end of the day, we know what's going to happen with the farmers, Ben. They're going to bail out the farmers too. And for free market conservatism, this must be a tough pill to swallow.
Bailing out foreign governments, bailing out farmers, tariffs, centrally controlled economies. This is all happening under President Donald Trump and the Republican Party. And it's very different from the Republican Party that I know that you came up in, when all of those things were not things that you guys would have run on.
So it's just interesting that all of a sudden it's just fine. I didn't say it's just fine. When before it was called socialism, if a Democrat tried to do it.
FERGUSON: And it's going to go to an extreme other agenda. You stand with them.
PHILLIP: All right. We got to go. Coming up next, Vice President Vance is weighing in on thousands of
leaked messages from young Republicans who are making jokes about race, rape, and gas chambers. We'll discuss that next.
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[22:35:00]
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PHILLIP: Tonight, the Vice President is weighing in on thousands of leaked messages from young Republicans who are joking about gas chambers, slavery, and rape. "Politico" reports on Telegram chats involving leaders of the groups across the country from just referred to black people as monkeys and watermelon people.
One fantasized about raping their enemies and driving them to suicide. One called rape, quote, "epic". Another supported Republicans who they believe support slavery, one talked about sending political opponents to gas chambers to, quote, "watch people burn now."
Slurs were reportedly used more than 250 times, including racist and homophobic ones. The outlet reports that at least one texter lost their job for this, and another had their job offer rescinded. And at least two of them apologized.
High profile state Republicans like Republican Representative Elise Stefanik have condemned the messages, and the young Republicans called the chains "vile, disgraceful, and inexcusable."
But Vice President J.D. Vance is taking a different approach tonight. Citing the text of a Democratic candidate for Virginia's attorney general from a couple of years ago in which he suggested a lawmaker get two bullets to the head, Vance writes, quote, "This is far worse than anything said in a college group chat, and the guy who said it could become the A.G. of Virginia. I refuse to join the pearl clutching when powerful people call for political violence."
It's an interesting choice on Vance's part.
DAVINSON: Yes, I think the Vice President missed an opportunity here. I mean, these are, you know, young Republicans, disgusting. They're learning a hard life lesson on the public stage right now that you need to grow up and not, you know, say stupid and hateful and just disgusting things.
I think the Vice President could have really used this moment as a learning moment. And, you know, encouraging these young men and women, I don't know who they were, but to be better and to, you know, denounce what they've said to move on and be better. These are young Republicans.
And so I don't hold necessarily anyone responsible. They're young, they need to make mistakes, they need to apologize and see the error and move forward. And I wish, you know, the Vice President would have said that. I don't understand the excuse for the attorney, the Democrat nominee
for attorney general in Virginia when he texted, you know, even worse things as an adult, as a sitting officeholder about a colleague in the state assembly. And so they're not comparable, they really aren't. These comments are disgusting.
I really hope these young men and women learn from this, learn that, you know, how wrong it was and become better. And I really hope I'm glad to see a number of Republicans step up and condemn them as well, because they're terrible.
[22:40:06]
But I do think to come to say that this somehow justifies that Jay Jones is did nothing wrong.
BOYKIN: And you just did exactly the same thing that J.D. Vance did, except for the fact that you didn't you denounce it -- denounce the words. But you immediately pivoted.
DAVINSON: I wouldn't have brought him up.
BOYKIN: But you immediately pivoted to a Democrat instead of focusing on the fact that this is a pattern. The saddest thing about this story is that it was not the least bit surprising to me. I mean, I don't think I don't. I don't think anyone who I know who has been who's familiar with where the Republican Party has been going the past decade or so.
FERGUSON: We're not calling you a Hitler or a fascist.
BOYKIN: J.D. Vance literally called Donald Trump Hitler. What are you talking about? J.D. Vance said that himself.
DAVINSON: Should we not be surprised at where the Democrat Party is going?
PHILLIP: Kristen and also Ben, as we've played multiple times here, Trump has repeatedly called his Democratic opponents fascists. So that argument does not hold.
BOYKIN: And there's a whole history of racism in the Republican Party. It started in the 90s.
FERGUSON: You guys had slavery. We were against it.
BOYKIN: OK, let me finish.
FERGUSON: Democratic Party literally was a party of slavery. So let's not act like there's not a history. If you want to talk history, slavery is the Democratic Party.
BOYKIN: Why don't we just listen to you, Ben, and tell us about black history.
FERGUSON: On that one, every American should be able to tell you about it. You don't have to be black to say that the Democratic Party was in favor of slavery, the party of slavery.
BOYKIN: Ben, you don't know what you're talking about. Let me just say this.
FERGUSON: I do. It wasn't the Republican Party. History is there.
PHILLIP: I do think that there's something interesting. Look, I just want to say, I think Kristen is 100 percent right. This was an opportunity that was missed, to say we draw the line somewhere in our politics.
And it's not the first time that not Trump, but Vance has seen an opportunity like that and completely blown past it. Back in February, Vance and Trump called for the rehiring of a DOJ staffer who quit over racist posts. And they did rehire that individual.
I think let's not get distracted by some of the other parts of this. But why is it that, you know, he's unwilling to just say this is disgusting, this is vile, this has no place in the Republican Party. Cut it out.
FERGUSON: Yes, two things I think can be true here. Number one, I'm glad we know who these conservatives are. I think there should be consequences for their words, I don't think this is just a teaching moment.
I think if they have a job, they should lose their job. I don't think they should work in the Republican Party, I don't think they should be involved in the Republican Party, I think they should be excommunicated and put on the bench for a pretty good amount of time. I want to be clear about that.
I also think that if you are about to be in an elected office in Virginia, and you've said things are worse than this, and you've said that the kids deserve to be hurt, that two things can be true at the same time. Republicans, young Republicans saying this, they should absolutely have a consequence. The Democrats had defended an individual who said that family member should die.
BOYKIN: It's not just young Republicans.
PHILLIP: Keith, hold on one second. Just before you respond on that, let me just say, these are separate incidents. However, the same question that I posed to them does apply to Democrats in the case of the Virginia case.
FERGUSON: Thank you.
BOYKIN: It's easy to say, I condemn that. How hard is it for J.D. Vance to say, I condemn? I condemn what these Republicans are doing.
PHILLIP: I want to give you an opportunity to say it. If that's the question. If the question is, should it be condemned, what's the answer? BOYKIN: But my point, and you kind of made this earlier, Abby, is that
there are racist Republicans who are currently working in the Trump administration who have been outed for their racism, and Trump let them stay there. One guy said America should be led by white men only. White men only.
One guy said this, and Trump put him in office.
FERGUSON: He said his kids should be harmed.
DAVINSON: By that justification, every Democrat talks the same way that Jay Jones does. By that same justification, every Democrat wants their opponents to die.
PHILLIP: Wait, hold on a second. I'm not understanding the point that you're making.
DAVINSON: The point that I'm making, if you're trying to say that these texts are symbolic of the Republican Party at large, then I can say that Jay Jones' texts are symbolic of the Democrat Party.
BOYKIN: You know what, you can't say that because when Jay Jones says something, Democrats condemn it, like I just did.
DAVINSON: We just don't condemn it.
BOYKIN: But J.D. Vance, the Vice President of the United States, refused to condemn what these Republicans said.
DAVINSON: Well, then you need to watch the fact that you staggeringly said every Republican is symbolic of the United States, because that is offensive.
BOYKIN: Because Donald Trump has a history of racism, and the fish rots from the head.
PHILLIP: Wait a second.
BOYKIN: These people didn't get this idea on their own. They're getting it from Donald Trump.
DAVINSON: Who is Jay Jones' model?
PHILLIP: Just give me one second.
BOYKIN: Jay Jones is not the issue. We've already been condemned.
FERGUSON: He's still running for office.
BOYKIN: He's already been criticized.
DAVINSON: You're taking a bunch of young kids and their stupid, disgusting texts and saying it's the Republican Party. What is the difference between me saying it's the Democrats?
PHILLIP: But hold on. That's why I want you guys to stop for just a second.
[22:45:03]
But Keith, is that what you're saying? Is that this is representative of the Republican Party?
DAVINSON: You said it.
BOYKIN: I am saying exactly that. The Republican Party in the past 10 years has moved down the road of racism. So it's not surprising that you see the open embrace of Nazism, of anti-Semitism, of homophobia, of transphobia, of sexism, of attacks on immigrants and xenophobia.
Because the Republican Party under Donald Trump has doubled down on this racism.
PHILLIP: All right. Anna, go ahead.
NAVARRO: Look, I'll tell you what I found really sad about this is that this is a very young generation. It was young Republicans in Vermont and in Arizona and in New York. So all over the country and they were so young.
So to me, it just breaks my heart that we haven't moved past the racial stereotypes that maybe were somehow accepted. We keep forgiving people who said racist, stupid things 60 years ago because that's when it was accepted.
Today, it shouldn't be accepted. There should be consequences. And it breaks my heart that there's 20-year-old kids who are in leadership positions in Republican organizations who are saying these things.
And I do applaud Elise Stefanik and any other Republican who condemns them, I think it's par for the course for J.D. Vance. And the reason I think that they do that is because J.D. Vance knows that some racists in the Republican Party are supportive of their administration and does not want to antagonize them.
PHILLIP: All right. Everyone, thank you so much for being here.
DAVINSON: So is that why no one has called on J.D. Vance to sit down?
NAVARRO: The voters are going to decide on that guy.
PHILLIP: Coming up, a race against the clock to lock up terrorists. Jake Tapper joins us to tell us about his remarkable new book and a remarkable story. That's next.
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[22:50:00]
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PHILLIP: It's a story so remarkable, you'd think it should be fiction. But it is real life and the subject of Jake Tapper's new book. Joining me now is Jake Tapper, the host of "The Lead" and "State of
the Union." He's out with his new book, "Race Against Terror."
Jake, I'm curious, how did you come across this particular story? And why was it so important for you to tell it?
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: So it was very random. I was hosting my son's 13th birthday party, a paintball party out in rural Virginia. And one of the dads came over to me, said he had read "The Outpost" and he knew somebody from the book.
And I said, oh yes, that book was really tough to write because the military keeps horrible records and they don't share them. And he said, tell me about it. And he proceeds to spin this yarn, this incredible story about him being an assistant U.S. attorney in Brooklyn.
They get a call, the Italians have picked up an al-Qaeda terrorist. Long story short, the Americans have a finite period of time to prove a case against this al-Qaeda operative or essentially the Italians are just going to let him free. They're going to put him in a refugee camp and he'll easily escape and then he'll go commit mass murder against Americans.
And the story was just so fascinating. And it was all about the sleuthing and finding physical evidence and everything. Everything you love from CSI or police procedurals on T.V.
I just was hooked, I wanted to tell the story because I just found it on its own just so interesting.
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, it's like a true crime tale come to life. But it's real, it's not fiction, this is actual real life.
You know, as part of writing this story, you spent a lot of time with the actual prosecutors. When you think about the purges that are happening of career prosecutors in this Trump administration, of people who are rank-and-file, some of them being kicked out for events that happened maybe four years ago, for signing onto a document, as you were just talking about. How does that affect how the DOJ operates, how these cases are able to proceed forward that sometimes take years to work on?
TAPPER: Well, Jafar will be the second terrorist tried for killing American service members abroad in a U.S. criminal court. And all I can say is they are not going to have the expertise of George Toscas, who I learned about in my book. They're not going to have the expertise of Michael Ben-Ari, who they fired.
I don't know who they're going to have. And I can tell you just from writing the book, it's not easy to try a case against a terrorist.
There's matters of intelligence, the evidence is overseas. It's very difficult to prove in a court of law. There have been all sorts of cases that have been thrown out. There was one case in 2010 that the jury acquitted him of 284 out of
285 charges because the witness was tainted. And so he was thrown out because of torture.
Anyway, my point is just don't get rid of these experts. They're keeping us safe. These stupid political reasons really hurt us and there is just a chill at the Department of Justice right now. I've never seen anything like it.
PHILLIP: Jake, another extraordinary book from you. Thank you very much. Great to see you.
And coming up, no end in sight for the government shutdown. Two weeks since it started, Trump ally and Congressman Byron Donalds joins CNN to talk about any hope at all for a solution. That's ahead.
[03:55:00]
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PHILLIP: And before we go, a quick programming note. Tomorrow, don't miss a special edition of "NewsNight," our all-star panel is going to discuss CNN's Town Hall with Senator Bernie Sanders and Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. They're going to discuss ideas on the path forward from this government shutdown.
Thank you very much for watching "NewsNight," "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
