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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
New York Times Reports, Trump Demands DOJ Pay Him $230 Million For Past Cases; Pardoned Capitol Rioter Accused Of Threatening To Kill Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY); Nearly A Third Of The Recruits Fail ICE's Personal Fitness Test; Shutdown Becomes The Longest In History. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 21, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, an unprecedented demand. The president wants his own DOJ run by his own appointees to pay him more than $200 million.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: All I know is that they would owe me a lot of money.
PHILLIP: Is this a shakedown or fair game?
Plus, Donald Trump's fourth government shutdown is now on the verge of being the longest ever.
TRUMP: We are building a world class ballroom. You hear that sound? Oh, that's music to my ears.
PHILLIP: As one Democrat urges Republicans to hit the nuclear option.
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): It's Groundhog Day, you know? That's a great movie, but this is shitty.
PHILLIP: Also, he's a January 6th rioter who received one of the president's pardons. Now, he's charged with trying to assassinate the House minority leader.
And as ICE unleashes agents onto America's streets, more than a third of recruits are reportedly flunking tests, both physical and constitutional.
Live at the table, Cornel West, Scott Jennings, Ashley Allison, Lydia Moynihan, and Ana Navarro.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening, I'm Abby Phillip in New York. Let's get right to what America's talking about, an unprecedented conflict of interest to the tune of $230 million. The New York Times is reporting that the president is demanding the Justice Department pay him for the cases against him. That includes the Russia probe, the Mar-a-Lago raid in the documents case, and that demand puts the DOJ frankly in uncharted waters, considering that the Justice manual says that there are only two people who can sign off on that, the deputy and the associate attorney general.
Now, those people, guess who they are right now? Todd Blanche, Trump's criminal defense lawyer, and Stanley Woodward Jr., who repped Trump's co-defendant in that documents case.
Now, the Times asked the DOJ if they would both recuse themselves in this matter and the department responded by saying, in any circumstance, all officials at the Department of Justice follow the guidelines of career ethics officials. However, it is also worth noting that Bondi fired the department's top ethics official back in July.
So, to today, President Trump perhaps unknowingly spelled out the conflict of interest that he may be creating.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: The Justice Department, are you asking them to pay you compensation for the federal investigations that happened to you? And how much are you asking for?
TRUMP: Well, I guess they probably owe me a lot of money for that probably. Yes, that's true. That's very interesting.
With the country, it's interesting because I'm the one that makes a decision, right? And, you know, that decision would have to go across my desk, and it's awfully strange to make a decision where I'm paying myself. In other words, did you ever have one of those cases where you have to decide how much you're paying yourself in damages, but I was damaged very greatly and any money that I would get, I would give to charity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: How does that work, that Trump -- I mean, I don't even know if what he's saying is true, according to the law, but how would it work for him to even be in a position where he thinks that he is the decider on whether or not he gets paid by the government $230 million?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think the context is important. Well, first of all, I think he believes because he is the president, everything that happens in the executive branch is ultimately accountable to him. He filed these claims, one in 2023 and one in 2024, before he was elected president, so the process pre- dates his coming to office. And I think the most important thing that he said today was that he hadn't spoken to the Justice Department about it, that he didn't really know what the process or procedure was at the moment. But if they did wind up paying him, he would give all the money to charity.
So, it looked to me like he was sort of downplaying it today.
PHILLIP: But he also said, I mean, look, the process might have begun before he was president, but he's certainly indicating that it could end while he is the boss of the people who ultimately decide. And he did also say, you heard him say it there, it's going to come across my desk. I might be the one to decide whether I get paid a quarter of a billion dollars. I mean, that -- Scott, I mean, do you think that is something that should ever happen in this country?
JENNINGS: I don't know if it's true, if it has to come across his desk or not, however, because it is an unprecedented situation --
PHILLIP: But do you think he should get paid by the Justice Department? That's the question.
JENNINGS: My personal advice if he asked me would be, have him table this until you leave office.
[22:05:01]
The process started before you came to office. You then won an election. And, look, I think maybe he was damaged and he's entitled to the process. If it were me and I were advising him, I would just say you could table it and put it off until you leave office.
PHILLIP: Was he damaged?
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. I mean, he's president. How much damage did he go through? His wealth apparently is higher now than it was when he was elected. I just -- politically, I'm not in the habit of giving Republicans advice, but there is no way a president gets paid a quarter of a billion dollars and people can barely pay their rent and put groceries on the table, that that is smart.
Like just rationally, like if you ever want to be able to make a case that you are for the working people, how do you -- that math does not math in any -- most people can't even foul them having a million dollars, but a quarter of a billion just doesn't make sense to me.
JENNINGS: Let's say though that it is true that he gets it and he gave it to charity, would that change your opinion?
ALLISON: The money is taxpayer money though. Like I don't want my taxpayer dollars to -- if I want to give the charity, I get the charity all the time, let me do it that way. Not --
PHILLIP: Why is taxpayer dollars going toward this?
LYDIA MOYNIHAN, CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK POST: Well, for context, Donald Trump has faced more politicization and weaponization of the DOJ than any person in history. He's faced this for almost ten years, the Mar-a-Lago raid the Mueller report. And I think the average Trump voter looks at this. They feel that he was unfairly targeted for nearly a decade. There was a situation last year where if he hadn't been elected, it's very possible he could have ended up in jail.
And so I think the average Trump voter looks at that and they remember back to the Obama era when the IRS was targeting the Tea Party, and they feel that this is sort of restitution. They don't think this is corruption.
PHILLIP: It's restitution that goes directly to Trump's pockets?
MOYNIHAN: They think this is a correction for years and years of political targeting where he paid $107 million in legal fees from 2020 to 2024. We are talking about unprecedented.
PHILLIP: Well, we aren't seeing a big chunk of those legal fees.
MOYNIHAN: Numbers, but I would also -- it was not the first time that the DOJ has, in fact, paid out money in settlements. They paid $2 million.
PHILLIP: Sure, yes. They paid out one to a January 6th rioter. That also happened, but it doesn't necessarily make it right. And I think the question is for the rest of the country, perhaps not the MAGA folks, how do they see this? And also what does it say about the Justice Department that Trump is even setting up this situation in which he's got two former lawyers effectively who might decide whether he gets a massive payday?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, it stinks to holy hell. And I actually think Scott is suggesting a very Solomonic solution here. I heard Jeffrey Toobin say earlier today that there's a statute of limitations that runs. So, I think they need to figure out how to stop that statute of limitations until he is no longer president.
Alternatively, find independent people that can take a look at the claims. Look, there's people who claim that getting indicted and convicted actually made him president and helped him become president. But this is just, you know, one more stripe on the tiger, right? You've got the crypto grift, you've got the Melania getting paid $40 million from Amazon for a documentary. You've got Melania selling Christmas ornaments. You've got Trump Hawking watches. You've got the $400 million jet from Qatar. I mean, the list is long and long and long with no oversight, and it is happening at a moment when there are federal workers showing up to work, like TSA agents, and not getting paid, when there are lines that go around the block at soup kitchens in Washington, D.C., of federal workers that don't have the money to buy groceries and feed their families.
So, the tone deafness here is disgusting. But at the same time, it is the level of corruption that has almost become normal because of the lack of Republican willingness to be oversight on what is happening.
PHILLIP: Trump seems to also really enjoy getting money out of entities. I just -- truly, I think a lot of people would be surprised to see him trying to do it out of the U.S. government. I mean, he's already -- law firms have already paid more than a billion dollars in what he is describing as free work for Trump. Paramount, $16 million, ABC, $15 million, Meta, $25 million, and this is perhaps just one more notch in his belt that he'd like to add.
DR. CORNEL WEST, AUTHOR, "TRUTH MATTERS": You know, sister, it reminds me really of the greatest satirical writer in the English language, Jonathan Swift, who died in Dublin, Ireland, 280 years and two days ago in Gulliver's Travel, where he talks about the thickness of the corruption, not just of one party, but of the system as a whole, the levels of spiritual malnutrition and moral constipation so that the average person in the country looks and sees this unbelievable forms of mendacity and even criminality.
[22:10:15]
And it's not a question of just one party. It's the system as a whole. And what happens in such a moment is that people begin to lose trust. People begin to pursue different other options, wondering how in the world are they going to come to terms with this level of corruption. And what happens is one side will lose something immoral and point out the other side is doing it immoral, so they just rationalize the -- well, the water, let it flow, H2O was cool. Just rationalize the other side so that the immorality gets deeper and deeper, Democrats immoral, Republicans immoral rationalization. The money's still flowing beneath the process and people say, we're losing the country.
PHILLIP: Yes. It's against the backdrop of this government shutdown, as Ana pointed out, that all of this is happening. And, you know, Trump is saying that. He's also saying he wants to punish blue states and even some conservatives are pushing back. Here's Lisa Murkowski saying, you show me one blue state in America where you don't have pockets, maybe even big pockets of Republicans, of conservatives, of MAGA people, of pro-Trump. Do we not care about them? Are we just saying if you don't like it, you should move to a place where you've got a Republican governor? It makes no sense. Why are we being punitive? It's hard enough when the government is not operating as it should be. Let's not be punitive to American's justice score, political points.
It seems like a very reasonable point for her to make about this threat to take away funding to so-called blue state.
JENNINGS: First of all, I'd just like to point out you can't take him anywhere. Secondly, it's the first time that's ever happened on this show. Third, I think --
NAVARRO: And then they say Latins like to talk with their --
WEST: Exactly. I'm a blues man. I get into it. But you go right here. Go right here. Here come the rags.
JENNINGS: Look, I think that's one point of view. I think another point of view is he's playing hardball with blue state governors and blue state mayors who are playing hardball with him. And that's one of the ways --
PHILLIP: Playing a hardball with a lot of Americans and perhaps a lot of Trump voters. I mean, that's her point, is that it's not just you punish the blue state governors. The governors are fine. It's actually the people who are going to be affected by this.
JENNINGS: Well, look, the people elect those governors and they elect those mayors and they have to take into consideration what kind of position they've been put in by their local leadership. And, look, it's hardball. It's a little different than before, but it's hardball.
NAVARRO: When a hurricane strikes New York, it's Americans getting struck. When a hurricane strikes Texas or strikes Florida, it's Americans getting struck. It's not about blue or red when it comes to Americans suffering and Americans wanting opportunity and Americans wanting equal treatment. That just -- I don't think we should be talking like that. I don't.
ALLISON: I think, you know, it's --
JENNINGS: Well, what hurricane is striking right now?
NAVARRO: No hurricane has struck, but I can tell you that when Trump was president in the first term, hurricane struck within the same term, Florida, Texas and Puerto Rico, and the treatment that Puerto Rico got was paper towels thrown at them --
JENNINGS: A record amounts of money was sent to Puerto Rico.
NAVARRO: The treatment that --
JENNINGS: Massive amount of money was sent to Puerto Rico, lots of money.
ALLISON: Can I just let something out though that this happened. This is like, I'm a former teacher and this is what we call a science experiment, right? That cup was spilled but we all flinched. Because one action impacts everybody, right? So, when Donald Trump --
NAVARRO: Yes, that's good, Ashley.
WEST: Yes, that's good.
ALLISON: I was a teacher, (INAUDIBLE) on your toes, okay? But, seriously, and then we all are going to have to clean it up. People who weren't even a part of this show --
NAVARRO: No. Cornell has to keep cleaning up.
ALLISON: We had people who, we didn't even know, people on T.V. We had someone had to come on our shot and give us something. It's an analogy to what's happening in our country, right? The water is the struggle that people are facing right now. You're in a blue state, you're in a red state, and these are people over here that are collateral consequences that have to then run out in the middle of our show and clean it up.
The reality though is there's still a mess on the table and somebody has to rise to the occasion and fix the problem.
PHILLIP: All right. Well, we clean up our mess. JENNINGS: We need more (INAUDIBLE). I'm just telling you that's not enough.
NAVARRO: You're doing a good job.
PHILLIP: Dr. West --
ALLISON: I know, you're just spreading the mess.
WEST: (INAUDIBLE) so clean too.
JENNINGS: We need the Quicker Picker Upper. I don't know if you've got that.
PHILLIP: Dr. West, I think we're going to need some more rags for you to clean that up.
Meantime, next for us, one of the Capitol rioters who President Trump pardoned is now charged with trying to assassinate the top Democrat in the House of Representatives.
Plus a third of ICE recruits are reportedly failing their fitness and academic tests, as the agency puts more agents on American streets.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: A January 6th rioter, who received one of the president's pardons is now charged with allegedly threatening to kill Hakeem Jeffries. Authorities say Christopher Moynihan, seen here in the Senate Chamber during the attack, sent text messages to an anonymous source that said, quote, Hakeem Jeffries makes a speech in a few days in New York City. I can't allow this terrorist to live. Even if I'm hated, he must be eliminated. And I will kill him for the future.
That anonymous person then tipped off the FBI. In a statement, the House minority leader criticized the blanket pardon that Trump gave to the January 6th defendants and said, threats of violence will not stop us from showing up, standing up and speaking up for the American people.
[22:20:02]
First of all, this is scary. But, second of all, it's -- I don't know. I mean, I think it's a natural consequence of pardoning people in a blanket fashion just period, the end, regardless of what they were accused of doing.
MOYNIHAN: Well first this is absolutely horrific and disgusting and I'm so grateful that the FBI is as impressive as they are and was able to capture this. There's a man named Ton Mills who Barack Obama pardoned, who was a violent criminal and went on to murder somebody else. No one here knows his name because the reality is we can't be held responsible for what he did after that. This is disgusting, but I think to take a bigger look at what's going on there is, in fact, one party that frequently releases violent criminals and puts them back on the street, and that is the Democratic Party who's soft on crime. There was a man, Decarlos Brown, who was arrested 14 times and went on to murder someone. So, I think that is a bigger problem than Americans are facing today.
And as for Hakeem Jeffries, absolutely disgusting that somebody wanted to target him, and I'm so grateful that the FBI discovered that plot.
PHILLIP: So, a few weeks ago, rhetoric was the issue and was the source of political violence on the left. Now, here's a man who was pardoned by this president for a violent act who then threatens a member of Congress, Congressional leadership, and it's no big deal?
MOYNIHAN: It is a big deal, absolutely. It's a huge deal. The plot was foiled. And, thankfully, everyone I'm is safe.
PHILLIP: I thought we just had this whole national conversation about rhetoric, which, by the way, I don't want to endorse that, but I'm just saying, especially on the right, that was the conversation, was that rhetoric was leading to violence. But now all of a sudden it's like, well, this is just what happens when you let people out of prison. It's just part of it.
MOYNIHAN: It's not what happens. And that's why we're opposed to the soft on crime policies. Look, I'm not going to get into the pardons, whether that was a good thing or not, but it's happened. We moved forward --
PHILLIP: Why not? Why can't we get into the pardons and whether it was true or not?
MOYNIHAN: -- and make sure that the people who are dangerous criminals are off the streets.
PHILLIP: But isn't that the issue in part whether the pardons were good or not? You mentioned -- we're talking about this guy, but there were several others. Another pardoned January 6th riot was shot and killed in a confrontation with Indiana Police. A January 6th Rioter, who was pardoned by Trump, faced sex -- child sex charges. Ex-Proud Boy Enrique Tarrio arrested on assault charges outside of the Capitol after he was pardoned. Another rioter charged with burglary in Virginia. Another rioter arrested near Obama's house and convicted on gun charges.
I mean, part of the issue here is that Trump pardoned a bunch of people who were convicted in many cases for violent crimes.
NAVARRO: And the issue is, look, first -- two things. One, I think we should also commend the anonymous person who tipped off authorities. And today, I also saw a story about a foiled plot in the Atlanta airport where that man's family tipped off authorities. And so the fact that we are more vigilant as a society and that people are taking the proactive action of trying to stop this and taking these threats seriously, I think, is something good that we need to recognize and applaud.
As you were mentioning, there's been at least eight reported pardoned January 6th convicted felons who have been rearrested for different things, soliciting minors, firearm possession, different things. Look, here's a problem that, really, pardons are a very serious thing, which should be given all the weight and consideration and deliberation. Donald Trump wanted to make a big splash with pardoning them all with a blanket pardon on his first day, the first thing he signed, the first thing he did. If time had been taken to analyze each of them individually, maybe some of these things could have been avoided, but we are where we are. There's been at least eight. It's not the first. Hopefully, this will be the last.
JENNINGS: It is a risk when you blanket pardon a group without really looking into the individuals. The same risk applies to Joe Biden, who pardoned thousands of drug criminals without looking into the individual files at the end of his administration. I don't know how many of them have reoffended. I'm sure if they haven't, some probably will because of the volume of them and they'll be responsible for that.
PHILLIP: Can ask you a question about that? Are you suggesting that because Joe Biden did not personally look into each file, or because it did not go through a process? Because I'm not sure it didn't go through a process, but you're saying --
JENNINGS: What I'm saying the president -- it's pretty well-reported that the president himself did not go through each individual case.
PHILLIP: Sure. But I --
JENNINGS: And I'm just saying simply it's a risk.
PHILLIP: But you understand -- yes, I mean, I understand that. But you understand also that there is actually a DOJ process generally that most of the most other pardons go through.
[22:25:02]
And even that process was circumvented for these January 6th rioters. And I don't think that they were for those --
JENNINGS: I think the, because of the drug cases, it was -- I mean, they were looking for a class of people who they thought had been simply overcharged because of the drug issue. My point is simply this. Whenever you do a large group of people and you're the president, the buck stops with you. You're ultimately responsible for what happens.
I do agree, it's hard to connect one thing to the other. You don't know what people are going to do. I personally have no tolerance, whatsoever for people who are granted mercy, in our unique way, we do it and then go out and abuse that mercy. I have no tolerance for political violence. I have no tolerance for people threatening to kill anyone, from Hakeem Jeffries to Brett Kavanaugh, to the other kinds of things we've seen. I have no tolerance for it, and I think they ought to throw the book at them, and I don't think any more mercy ought to be forthcoming people who have abused it in the past.
WEST: Well, I'd agree with that. But that means, in fact, that there's no more or legal justification of blanket pardoning of insurrectionists January 6th. There's not, in any way, a persuasive argument one can make. And that's true for any president, be it Biden or be it Trump.
And as you know it, I'm not a fan of either one of those, because I think they're tied to war crimes in Gaza, but that's just as rich footnote. But the important thing is it's more than just a risk though, brother. It is no moral than legal justification. Stop the mic.
PHILLIP: Well, the lack of remorse is one big part of it. I mean, these people were not remorseful in any way, and that's a big part of the problem.
ALLISON: Yes. So, we were just talking about pardons last week. I think pardons and commutations play an important role in our -- and that the president should have that authority. I think that there needs to be systems and standards that apply for every president across the board, Democrat or Republican.
But that aside, I think we're missing the context in which we're actually talking about when the story started about this individual and what they were actually trying to do on January 6th, and how dangerous it was for our country for people in the Capitol at that time.
And so then I guess the question is, I like to see that, usually, when you get pardoned, there's a form of rehabilitation that happens. You have to show that you served some time and that you've actually learned. We don't really know if that happened because it happened so fast under this administration. It was a campaign promise. It was actually like, I don't care if they served time and they did some rehabilitation. I'm going to do it so that my folks know I stand with these folks.
And the final question I just have to say ask is, you know, Scott, you and I are aligned, there is no place for political violence anywhere, but why is it so heightened right now and what is the antidote to bring it down? Because just putting one side against the other, it just -- we're just going to always just try to keep outdoing each other and then violence will keep happening. So, I want to go a layer deeper and try and figure out like why is this violence surfacing in such a way right now and how do we get it to stop?
PHILLIP: Yes, I think that is the big question of our time right now. And it's not just on any one side. It's all around us.
Next for us though, ICE recruits are flunking their fitness and civic tests. So, how will the White House hit this goal that they have of 10,000 new agents by January? We'll discuss. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:33:18]
PHILLIP: Tonight, push-ups, sit-ups, and a one and a half mile run are standing in the way of Donald Trump's plan to hire and train 10,000 ICE agents by January. Nearly a third of the recruits right now are failing ICE's personal fitness test. And despite lowering its standard to boost recruiting, it's causing the agency major headaches.
It's pathetic, a career ICE official tells the Atlantic in an email to the agency's top officials that complains of a considerable amount of "athletically allergic" candidates misrepresenting their physical condition on application forms. Now, what's more, these recruits are flunking basic civics exams.
In a statement to CNN, DHS downplayed concerns and said that the numbers "reflect a subset of candidates in initial basic academy classes." In the meantime, the Trump administration has cut the amount of time the recruits spend in training from four months down to just weeks.
And Ana Navarro, when you look at some of these interactions between ICE agents and the public, frankly, it's not entirely surprising that that's what's happening as they try to rush these people through the process of getting certified to be on the streets.
NAVARRO: Okay, well, in all honesty, I'm athletically allergic. Could not pass the presidential exam when I was in school, could not do a pull-up for a nanosecond. That being said, look, I think this lack of not only the athletic aspect but also the civics aspect is showing in the interactions we are seeing.
There have been at least 170 U.S. citizens that have been detained by ICE. We have seen people get scooped up because they're black.
[22:35:00]
In Chicago, U.S. citizen blacks, put into U-Haul trucks -- in the back of U-Haul trucks. We have seen teenagers pinned to the ground. We know that there have been more deaths in ICE custody, you know, in the last few months than there were in the last four years.
So, you know, I would hope that even folks who are in favor of deporting everybody, I would hope that there would be some agreement that there needs to be rights, that there needs to be a process that people need to be allowed to show I.D., that they can't just be scooped up in that way and have their rights violated. It's just inhumane what we are seeing in the streets of America.
PHILLIP: Or at least that the standards shouldn't be lowered just to meet a quota.
MOYNIHAN: Okay, I just have to respond to this. If you are housing or living with somebody in MS-13 or a gang member it is very possible that you could get swept up in that. That is just a reality.
NAVARRO: Listen. The vast majority of the people who have been detained do not have criminal records -- 75 percent. MOYNIHAN: If you're living with a gang member, you got to know that's a possibility. Okay, actually --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: But that's not the people that were scooped up in this residential building in the middle of the night. You're just making things up.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: You're making things up.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Yeah, just as a factual matter, I mean --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Most of the people that have been detained do not have any criminal records or ties to gangs.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I'm sure you can find an example or two of this, but we also know the situations for a lot of these 170 Americans. And some of them were just -- just happened to be in the same location as other people who might have been targeted by ICE and were still scooped up.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: The teenage black boy I was referring to was in at CVS.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: And to Ana Navarro's point, that apartment building that they raided a couple of weeks ago that housed, frankly, mostly Americans, they only uh identified two alleged Tren de Aragua members. The rest of the people who were arrested, including American citizens, they're not gang members. So, that's also happening.
MOYNIHAN: Okay.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: But I was asking you about the standards because the issue at hand here is that their -- is that the standards are not A, not being met, and B, in some cases are being slightly lowered to allow more people to get through this process because they have to meet a quota. And when you're talking about law enforcement, is that really what we should be doing?
MOYNIHAN: No, absolutely not. And unfortunately, this is not really an ice problem. This is a problem across the board. I think as many as 80 percent of police officers are overweight. And so, we've seen standards just decrease across the board. Now, my understanding is that they aren't decreasing the standards,
they're just saying that a lot of people are failing. And I think that's okay, right? They have a lot of people who are interested in joining. Not all of them are going to meet the criteria and that's the reality.
ALLISON: A lot of people are joining because a lot of people need jobs. A lot of people are failing because we don't teach civic in schools and that's a problem. And --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: They're offering $50,000 --
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: A lot of people are taking the job because they're student loan forgiveness. And I hope they don't lower the standard. Because the last I checked it was the DEI candidates that needed the standard lowered. But now it seems like the people who want to work for ICE might get their standards. Let's just see how this all plays out.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: That's not what's happening. They're failing. The system is working. They have fitness standards. They have standards for civics. If you fail the standards, you don't get in. So, the story is that you have a system in place designed to weed people out who shouldn't be in, and it's working. That's a good thing.
PHILLIP: So, so, I will say this. So, here's what we know, at least for now. In February, the requirements were this. Thirty-two sit-ups in a minute or less. Twenty-two push-ups in a minute or less. Two hundred twenty-yard sprint. One and a half mile run. Now, the standard is 15 push-ups as opposed to 22. So, it's still 32 sit-ups, one and a half miles in slightly less time than before. So, there's been a slight adjustment. Who knows why you need to do seven
(CROSSTALK)
WEST: But did you --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- fewer push-ups than before. But --
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: So, the standards were lowered.
PHILLIP: It appears. It appears to be the case.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: You still have to an athletic standard.
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: So they lowered the standard.
WEST: But the standard's still declining. Standard's still declining. But it's not just --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I also think, I mean to me, also, the civics part is huge because knowing people's rights in this country is part of what you need to know if you're going to be violating them potentially as a law enforcement officer, or at least you have the power to do that.
WEST: But there was another claim tucked into that report, which is the people themselves are misrepresenting themselves. See, they're lying. See, that's a decline of standards, too. It's a matter of character. It's a matter of soul craft. So, it's not just you got a decline of standards across the board. And too often, you want to scapegoat the most vulnerable. It must be the black folk and brown folk responsible for the decline of standards.
[22:40:00]
No, get off the crack pipe. That's not true at all. What's really true is the decline of standards across the board and people acting as if they're so athletically on the cutting edge. And when it's time to take the test, can't pass it.
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: And if you lie on your application, perhaps you lie on the job.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Just today -- well, just today, there was an ICE police officer whose weapon discharged and shot, injured a U.S. Marshal and the suspect because they were using the service weapon to bang on the window of a suspect. I mean, I don't know. I mean, these are the types of things that just seem like -- is there proper training happening here when it comes to ICE?
NAVARRO: There's not. We all -- listen. We've all seen it. And there should be.
JENNINGS: You definitively state that they're not being properly trained. You know that?
NAVARRO: They're shooting dogs. They're shooting dogs and people's -- that they have been locked in people's bathrooms. They're abandoning small children alone in cars.
JENNINGS: False.
NAVARRO: No, it's not false. Look it up. Don't just say false. I actually -- JENNINGS: Abandoning small children -- they turn the children over to HHS custody.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Yes, there were actually small children abandoned in a highway in a car in Cicero, Illinois. How much more specific would you like me to get with examples of what is happening?
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: You have these vague anecdotes and you make these sweeping statements. They're not training -- they're not training ICE agents. Of course they go to training. Of course they're training them.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: No, they're training them and they're not learning those stuff. They're definitely violating human rights, Scott.
JENNINGS: I disagree with you.
NAVARRO: Okay, well --
PHILLIP: Well, look. Scott, she had a specific example. It sounds like you were unfamiliar with it.
JENNINGS: I'm not aware of her example. Here's what I know.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Okay, so you don't know.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Under Joe Biden -- under Joe Biden, they didn't enforce federal immigration law. Now, we do. We're having hundreds of thousands of interactions.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, my point is that you just said -- I know but you --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Things will happen. But she said they are not training them. She said they're not training them.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Do you think that trained ICE agents will scoop up U.S. citizens?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: She was saying a specific example and you said it was false. (CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: She said, quote, "they're not training them".
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: You just acknowledged that you don't know what she was referring to.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I don't. I don't know what she's talking about.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Do you think that scooping up U.S. citizens without giving them --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I disagree -- I disagree with the generalization they're scooping up U.S. citizens.
NAVARRO: There's 170 that have been scooped up.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Well, there's over a half a million illegal aliens that have been deported and 1.6 million have self-deported.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: There's little children that have been scooped up that are U.S. citizens.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right, look.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I know. You don't want the law enforced. I get it. You don't have to yell at me. You don't want the law enforced. I understand.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: There is video -- there is video of black kids.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right, listen. Look, look. It is true that United States
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- citizens have been detained by ICE without --
JENNINGS: Detained and released.
PHILLIP: Yeah.
JENNINGS: Released. Released.
PHILLIP: Yeah, but some -- but whether you're detained and after hours or days, your rights may still be violated and that's still an issue that people have a right to be concerned about.
ALLISON: Can I just -- the reason why they're often detained though is also because of the color of their skin.
NAVARRO: Absolutely.
JENNINGS: I mean, that's again a sweeping blanket general -- do you know of a specific instance where someone -- I mean, honestly --
(CROSSTALK)
WEST: We got data for that. We got data for that.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: The answer is -- the answer is -- hold on a second.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: You're saying they're racist. I mean, these are blanket statements.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: The answer --
ALLISON: That was a blanket statement.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: The answer is yes, we do know of specific instances in which people, American citizens, have been arrested because they happen to be in a particular place and look a certain way. That has actually happened. They're documented. So, this is not yes work that we're doing here. Yeah, but they're still detained. They're still arrested without their rights being given to them. That is still happening.
WEST: And too many are being terrorized.
PHILLIP: The federal government is at a standstill tonight. There are still no end in sight for this government shutdown. Now, some Republicans are asking Trump to join the talks. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:48:08]
PHILLIP: The government shutdown is on the verge of becoming the longest in history. It's been 21 days and nothing has changed, nothing. No talks, no deals, just a lot of name calling and blaming. And today, hundreds of federal employees lined up for food donations as the standoff drags on. Here is Democratic Senator John Fetterman taking a swipe at his own party for this impasse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D) PENNSYLVANIA: It's Groundhog Day, you know, and I'm just saying, and it's not entertaining. That's a great movie, but this is shitty. And now, it's like now real damage is going to -- are now touching the lives of regular Americans, and we all lose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: And yet, new polling out shows tonight that most Americans blame Republican lawmakers more than Democrats for this stalemate. This is not typically what we see when it comes to government shutdowns, but also, I think at this stage it's kind of unusual that nobody is even making a movement toward talking to each other. Dr. West.
WEST: Yeah, I just think it's a sad situation, but when you have the levels of distrust, it's not just polarization, but even outright contempt for each other. You lose sight, not just of the humanity of each other, but you lose sight of your precious citizens who are out there suffering 70 percent living paycheck to paycheck. It's just a sad situation, but it is the ultimate logic of a situation in which we're just losing the developed capacity to treat each other like human beings.
PHILLIP: Here's a headline from "CNN Today". "We absolutely need him. Some in the GOP say it is time for Trump to get involved in shutdown talks, even though the GOP leaders are rebuffing that idea." Lydia, I mean, is it time for Trump -- I mean, he could be the person that just says, okay, let's get this done.
[22:50:02]
MOYNIHAN: Well, how many Democrats have voted for the C.R.? It was good enough for them to vote on in March, and now something has changed, and they're not willing to vote on the same C.R. that they were once willing to support. And I think it's pretty clear that it's Schumer and lot of Democrats who are bowing to the left flank of their party, people who want to see movement and want to see action.
And their whole framework for why they should do this is really flawed. As Obama said, elections have consequences, and they basically want to undo the rightfully passed Big Beautiful Bill that the Republicans signed into law. That is what this whole effort that they are making. And yes, it's about healthcare, but there's also all kinds of pork actually that is in this bill. There's 3.9 million for LGBTQI plus democracy grants in the Balkans, 13.4 million for civic engagements in Mbabwe, 2.9 million for desert locust relocation in Africa. And they are the ones who have time and time again, now after 11 votes, been unwilling to work with the GOP. NAVARRO: Okay, well, let's not talk about the $20 billion to bail out
Trump's buddy in Argentina. But listen, just a few days ago we saw Donald Trump standing like a statesman at the Knesset in Israel announcing a peace deal which I hope to God holds. We heard of his representatives, Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner, sitting at a table across from Hamas terrorists and crafting this deal. Donald Trump likes to say that he is the deal-maker in chief, that that's what he brings to the table.
So yes, to answer your question, it is time for Donald Trump to show that deal-making prowess, that statesmanlike uh attitude that he had abroad, to show it domestically and stop putting out A.I.-generated memes of him attacking other Americans or attacking Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries.
PHILLIP: On the politics, one curious thing. Harry Enten pointed this out this morning. In the first part of this year, the generic ballot, Democrats versus Republicans, was basically tied. Now, Democrats have an advantage. They are getting -- I don't want to say more and more popular, that might be overstating it. But they are improving,
NAVARRO: It's a low bar.
PHILLIP: It's a low bar but they are improving even in light of this shutdown. So, the political incentives are not working in Republicans' favors right now.
JENNINGS: I hear you also did a report this week showing that Trump's job approval has actually gone up by one point.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: By one point.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: --- shutdown.
(CROSSTALK)
WEST: I thought it was two percent.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Don't you think that's about it?
PHILLIP: He's deeply underwater. It's 56 to 42.
JENNINGS: I mean, look, here's what I think. The President said today he'd be happy to meet with the Democrats. If they stop holding the government hostage, they could easily walk in there tonight, pass the C.R., give us seven weeks, the President brings everybody together. And my strong belief is that they would wind up negotiating on a number of issues and they would come to an agreement.
The President doesn't want to negotiate under duress. In The Hill today, a Democrat senator anonymously said, none of us want to vote to open the government because quote, "we face the guillotine". That's their words from our base.
PHILLIP: Yeah. Look, I think you just made a very important concession that Republicans inevitably are going to negotiate, but holding firm in this moment on principle, I don't know. I mean, they're eventually going to come to the table.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: That's where the base is.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Maybe they should just come to the table.
ALLISON: That's where your base is?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Next. They are as the panel gives us their night caps, protest sign edition. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:57:49]
PHILLIP: We're back and it's time for the NewsNightcap, "Sign of the Times" edition. Dan Koh, friend of the show, attended the "No Kings" rallies with a sign about one of his fellow panelists. Quote, "Scott Jennings listens to Nickelback". This must be an inside joke.
JENNINGS: That Dan.
PHILLIP: So, you each have a few seconds to tell us what would your protest sign on a non-political issue be? Ashley, you're up.
ALLISON: Stores, do not sell Christmas decorations until after Halloween. And people, do not put up Christmas decorations until after Thanksgiving. Respect the holidays.
NAVARRO: Okay, but how long can we keep them up?
ALLISON: Until Valentine's Day, I don't care.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: What?
PHILLIP: Oh Lord, no.
ALLISON: I don't care how long people put them let them up --
PHILLIP: Day after New Year's.
ALLISON: Let me -- no, that's aggressive. PHILLIP: Day after New Year.
ALLISON: Day after New Year's? No.
PHILLIP: All right. Lydia?
MOYNIHAN: Percy and I --
PHILLIP: Hi, Percy.
MOYNIHAN: -- also have a sign together. It's every dog gets its dine. I think that we should allow pets in restaurants. We allow children. Why not allow pets? I think they bring so much joy. I would like them everywhere.
PHILLIP: -- why we don't allow pets in restaurants.
JENNINGS: You mean like sitting like in a chair at the table?
MOYNIHAN: Yeah, why not? Why not?
JENNINGS: With maybe like a little --
PHILLIP: I know Ana brings her pets to the restaurant.
NAVARRO: I had no idea that they weren't allowed.
(LAUGHTER)
NAVARRO: Because there's a new one to me, Chacha.
(CROSSTALK)
MOYNIHAN: Percy and I have gotten kicked out, so we're sensitive.
PHILLIP: Go ahead, Ana.
NAVARRO: Okay, so I judged something called the "Burger Bash", which is part of the New York City Wine and Food Festival this last Friday. I was sitting next to Ja Rule for hours tasting burgers, and it was incredibly fun.
PHILLIP: Okay, that's a humble brag.
NAVARRO: And we talked about -- we said -- so that we were purists, we don't want fancy stuff on our burgers, but there are a bunch of burgers that had like French onion soup dip and gold leaf and caviar. Keep your French onion soup off my beef patty.
PHILLIP: Okay. Cornel.
[23:00:00]
WEST: Well, I'll just still say that I love Supreme which goes far beyond politics. Far beyond. I come from a great black people who've been hated for 400 years and teaching the world so much about love. PHILLIP: Simple and beautiful. Go ahead.
JENNINGS: Very simple. I brought my sign in one week, one week from today. My sign is "Go Order Abby's Book". You get it in a week. I know it's hard to sell your own book. I'm doing it right now.
PHILLIP: Thank you, Scott.
JENNINGS: I'm going to sell it for you in one week. If you care about national political affairs --
NAVARRO: Suck up.
JENNINGS: -- buy Abby's book. I'm going to order it today and it'll be here a week from today. That's the sign.
PHILLIP: All right, thank you, Scott. Everyone thank you very much. Thanks for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
