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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Clock Ticks on 42 Million Americans Losing Food Stamps Amid Shutdown; Noem Rejects Illinois Governor Request to Stop Raids on Halloween. Economists Say Immigrant Population During COVID Pandemic Helped Boost U.S. Economy; Trump Advisers Caught Off Guard By Nuke Testing Order; Mamdani Responds To Republicans Calling Him A Marxist, Communist; Andrew Is Not Prince Anymore. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 30, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, as the clock ticks, the president and Congress may not think 40 million Americans losing food stamps is an emergency, but a judge does. Why the shutdown is turning a painful new corner.
J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: That's how a child behaves.
SIDNER: Plus, a governor's plea to ICE, stop scaring the kids on Halloween.
GOV. J.B. PRITKZER (D-IL): I'm asking for basic human decency. Give the children and the families of Illinois a break.
SIDNER: The reply, swift and stinging.
KRISTI NOEM, DHS SECRETARY: No, we're going to be out on the streets in full force.
SIDNER: Also --
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): They're Marxists, they're socialists.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are communists and Marxists.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have hijacked the Democratic Party.
SIDNER: -- Republicans escalate their rhetoric against Zohran Mamdani. And tonight, the New York frontrunner responds.
Live at the table, Kevin O'Leary, Tezlyn Figaro, Congressman Mike Lawler, Chuck Rocha, and Miles Taylor.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SIDNER (on camera): Good evening to you. I'm Sara Sidner in New York in for Abby Philip.
Just 48 hours from now, funding for food stamps, otherwise known as SNAP assistance, will expire, leaving more than 42 million Americans who rely on the potentially hungry. This, of course, another consequence of the shutdown, but now a federal judge says she may force the White House to tap into emergency funds to pay for SNAP benefits in November.
Right now, that fund has a little more than $5 billion in it, but nearly $9 billion is needed to cover next month's benefits. The administration says that money is not meant for what it says was, quote, regular benefits, but instead for emergencies, like disaster relief. The judge disagrees. She said in a hearing today, if you don't have money, you tighten your belt, you're not going to make everyone drop dead because it's a political game someplace.
Three Democratic governors and 23 attorneys general filed a lawsuit over it. I spoke to one today, Massachusetts Attorney General Andrea Campbell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREA CAMPBELL (D), MASSACHUSETTS ATTORNEY GENERAL: The USDA has the full authority to continue this funding. It is a policy choice. It's a choice they're choosing not to help 42 million Americans across this country, which is shameful to say the least. And I'm hopeful and confident that our lawsuit hopefully will change that.
And just a reminder to your listeners, as a Democratic attorney general, we do this work regardless of whatever letters by your name or your political affiliation. This is about helping people delivering for real Americans who are suffering.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: Now, Republican Senator Josh Hawley introduced a bill last week that would keep SNAP benefits funded throughout the shutdown. It was giving bipartisan support, including from the White House, but Senate Majority Leader John Thune sent senators home for the weekend. So, any chance of saving SNAP benefits would have to happen after the funding expires on Saturday.
All right, to our panel, I'll start with you, Representative Lawler. Thank you for being here. Never in the history of this country has SNAP benefits, or what was used to be known as food stamps, been ended for a while, even during shutdowns. Why is it okay now?
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Well, look, I don't think this situation is okay at all. And it's precisely why I voted over a month ago to fully fund SNAP, to fully fund WIC, to make sure our troops are paid, to make sure Border Patrol agents are paid to make sure that our air traffic controllers are paid and all of our federal employees. We passed a clean continuing resolution through the House over a month ago. Under Joe Biden, every single Democrat voted 13 times to fund our government and keep it open. Chuck Schumer, the senator from my home state of New York. Said repeatedly, shutting down the government is a disaster, that you don't use the American people as hostage in a political game. But that is precisely what Senate Democrats have done over the last month. We're 30 days into a shutdown that didn't need to be.
And so, yes, I support making sure that SNAP and WIC are funded.
[22:05:00]
It's why I passed the clean C.R. through the House over a month ago. This could end today, respectfully, this could end today if Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand, the two senators from New York, would say very simply, it's time, let's pass the clean C.R. Call John Thune, get everybody there, pass the clean C.R., and avoid any government shutdown, whatsoever.
CHUCK ROCHA, SUBSTACK, THE ROCHA REVOLUTION: With respect, Congressman, today in the U.S. Senate, Ben Ray Lujan, a Democrat, brought a bill up saying we could pay the WIC today, we could get that open and get it done. There was no vote on that. This thing needs to end because 22 million Americans healthcare is going to get doubled.
I got my ACA notification yesterday. There's two numbers I noticed on it. One was what I was paying, and number two is what I'm going to be playing. Now, everybody knows my story. I didn't go to college. I grew up in a small town in East Texas. Every American will be looking at that, just like they'll be looking to see if they're going to have some food stamps to make sure their families can get paid.
SIDNER: About 39 percent of SNAP recipients are children, 20 percent, I went and looked these stats up, were elderly, 10 percent were non- elderly individuals that had disabilities. That makes up the bulk of the people that receive these benefits. So, why can't everyone just agree to do the right thing?
TEZLYN FIGARO, HOST, STRAIGHT SHOT, NO CHASER ON BLACK EFFECT PODCAST NETWORK: Well, obviously it is a political game. You know, respectfully, to saying, you know, this could be passed right now. It's certainly not being done. And I just want to speak for those who are really being affected. We say the numbers, Sara, 22 million, but I want to speak on behalf of Clifford Johnson in L.A. who is disabled. He is paralyzed, and you know what he does for a living, drive Uber with sticks. So, this is somebody who does everything that they possibly can with no legs to still work, to still contribute to society, who's getting screwed on the Medicaid side, and also now being screwed on the food stamps side. So, no matter what he does, this particular administration that is in charge now is screwing him either way.
There is this stereotype that those who are on SNAP and those who are on these benefits are people who are lazy, people who are not contributing, so that $100, $150 that he gets every month may not make a difference to those who are sitting at the tables in Congress, but it absolutely makes a difference to him. So what would you say to him, to the Republicans who are holding Medicaid hostage and for food stamps? Should he now say, well, now I can't get my diabetes, all of the complications with being paralyzed or starve, what would you say to him? What should his choice be?
LAWLER: Well, Republicans are not holding Medicaid hostage, number one. Number two, we protected Medicaid for those who are disabled to make sure that they are not losing benefits to those that are here illegally, taking benefits away from the very people who rely on this program, number one.
Number two, again, we passed Republicans, in the House, passed a clean C.R. to fund SNAP, to fund WIC over a month ago. Democrats in the Senate have voted 14 times, 14 times, to keep the government shut down to not fund WIC, to not fund SNAP. So, this is not a function of Republicans playing politics. I don't care who the president is or what party is in power. I have voted every single time to keep the government funded and open. During Joe Biden's presidency, I voted eight times to keep the government funded. Kevin McCarthy lost his job as speaker of the House in large measure because he put a clean C.R. on the floor.
It's time for Chuck Schumer to do the right thing. Stop playing politics. Stop kowtowing to Bernie Sanders and AOC and Zohran Mamdani, and vote to pass a clean C.R., as he did every time until this year, every time in his career for 50 years.
MILES TAYLOR, FORMER DHS CHIEF OF STAFF UNDER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: Can I just say this though? The president of the United States is the president of the United States. And at this point as an American, I don't really care who's responsible, and I think a lot of Americans are feeling that way. They're like the bickering game is happening. There's polls about, are Democrats more responsible, I don't care anymore. There's kids who are going to starve.
LAWLER: Agree.
TAYLOR: The president should get up and say, everyone, come over to my house and let's have a conversation. I worked with him in the last shutdown, the 35-day shutdown from 2018 to 2019, in the administration to try to get them to end it. And I will tell you very candidly what that was like. Days just got burned where the president didn't care. He wasn't thinking about it, he was thinking about other things. We said, Mr. President, the troops aren't going to get paid. Mr. President, people might not be able to feed their kids, Mr. President, essential government services are going to shut down. And guess what? He did not care, because to him this was a video game.
But this is not a video game. Tomorrow night, there are families who are going to go out on American streets and they're going to trick or treat from the start of trick or treat until the very end. You know why? Because that might be the food they can afford to feed their kids for the next few days. That rocks me to hear anecdotes like that. And I'm not blaming you for it, Congressman. I'm just saying, I would hope my fellow conservatives call on the president to say, you know what, Mr. President, who cares who's to blame? Bring them all to the House. Let's cut a deal. Let's reopen the government. Let's feed kids.
SIDNER: Even during the historic 35-day shutdown, SNAP was funded, and this is the first time that it hasn't been.
[22:10:05]
The average household receives about $332 per month if they're using SNAP.
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN, O'LEARY VENTURES: : I'm not a fan of solving for one problem over another, a bill like Ted Cruz has to keep air traffic controllers going. This is all bad. The people vote their representation, and the government's supposed to do the work of the people. I say none of this stuff should go forward so the pressure gets worse and worse and worse, whether it's SNAP, which is horrific, whether you can't travel, we're a very transit-based society in America.
You can see it today. I flew into New York, delays like crazy, and it's just -- these guys stop getting paid tonight. It's their last paycheck.
SIDNER: Wait, are you saying you don't think that anything should be funded?
O'LEARY: No separate bills. I think you have to force -- you have to squeeze government on a bipartisan basis, like a teenage pimple. Keep squeezing it until they get back to Washington and they solve the problem. Everybody's got an agenda item here. You've got this issue around healthcare. Other people have issues around SNAP. You've got the traffic controllers, the air traffic controllers. Everybody's got an issue. And the reason they have an issue is the government of America is closed.
So, don't solve one vertical. Don't do anything until everybody is so pissed off, because, I'll tell you next week when people, the one that kills you every time is to get to an airport and there's a five-hour lineup. That's the one that always gets government back to work.
So, Cruz is right to bring that bill, but I don't want it passed. I want those people pissed, whether the Republicans or Democrats sank their representation, hey, bozos, get back to Washington.
FIGARO: Well, and let me just say this, I'm sorry, the people that I represent can't afford a plane ticket. So, waiting in line for a delayed plane is not going to get them pissed. What's getting the people that I know who are upset are the people that are literally not being able to eat, to say that they're not holding Medicaid hostage, when you know that Democrats are trying to negotiate to get healthcare back on the table.
LAWLER: That's the Affordable Care Act subsidy, which is a totally different issue.
FIGARO: Right. But you know Democrats don't have leverage, so let's stop playing games. This is their only leverage that they have.
LAWLER: They said this is the only leverage they have, which is why they shut the government. FIGARO: That's exactly --
LAWLER: Correct. They shut the government.
(CROSSTALKS)
LAWLER: So, we've never allowed policy, and this is Chuck Schumer saying, this is Hakeem Jeffries saying this, this is Nancy Pelosi saying this, we've never allowed policy to be extracted at the barrel of a gun by using a shutdown to hold the American people hostage. There's a very simple way to address all these issues.
And, by the way, I'm a lead co-sponsor on a bill to extend the ACA subsidy by a year. I went and asked Hakeem Jeffries three weeks ago, sign on to the bill. If this is what you're saying is the issue, let's get it done, sign on to the bill and join me. He said, no, because it really was never about that. And so if we want to address healthcare in America, let's do it, but you don't do it in a shutdown.
ROCHA: There's something really different about this shutdown, all of us who've lived through all these different shutdowns. I live in Washington, D.C. And what I remember from all of those shutdowns, you remember this, Sara, there's always somebody on Capitol Hill bickering back and forth, whether they're with the speaker, they're Republican, Democrat, they're going at each other trying to figure out and trying to cast blame, I take that with a grain of salt as well, but you don't see that right now. There's nobody in Washington, D.C., trying to work on this. The Senate, as you said, was sent home. There's nobody there. Donald Trump just got back from an Asia trip where he was gone for eight days. People need to be back in Washington right now trying to solve this.
FIGARO: Can I just say, because you keep saying over and over, there's never -- you know, they've always signed on. Let me be clear. I'm an independent, I'm not a Democrat. I told Democrats that they should have did the same thing that you're doing to them. They should have shut it all down, broke it all down. So, I appreciate the, or else, you know, that Republicans are doing, if that is the agenda that you're pushing. So, I just want to be clear about that. When you say they've always signed on, they should have stopped signing on a long time ago when Sara was following us with the George Floyd matter. They should have shut it down a long time ago when we were looking to expand the Supreme Court.
So, I am all for, you know, pushing the agenda and using what you can as leverage and Republicans do that best. So, now we're confused why Democrats are doing --
LAWLER: I had Republicans in my conference last Congress that wanted to shut the government down over Joe Biden's open border policy, I and others said, no, not because I disagreed with them on the substance of the issue, but because shutting down the government is not going to solve the problem, and, in fact, what it's doing, the very people that you're talking about that are not going to get food assistance, that's what it does. It creates this tit-for-tat game where each side uses the American people as a hostage in a ridiculous negotiation. We can easily pass the clean C.R., open the government up, pass an ACA subsidy extension. I don't want to see people's healthcare premiums go up. But the fact is that this subsidy, by the way, the Democrats passed to expire at the end of this year. If they could have done a permanent extension while Joe Biden was president, they would've done that, but they couldn't.
FIGARO: But your argument is so, well, let's just pass and let's negotiate later. And that reminds me of some time when men say, don't worry about it, I'll just call you in the morning, you know?
[22:15:02]
So, I've heard it all before I cheated on you 655 times, but this one time -- you know what I'm talking about. But this one time, oh, it's going to be all better.
So, in the words of Sunshine Anderson as an R&B singer, I've heard it all before. So, to say, let's just pass it and don't worry about it, that's not how it works.
LAWLER: Then you will see this happen every single time. If people want to use a government shutdown, you will see this happen in perpetuity every year, September 30th, one group is going to hold it. That's not good.
O'LEARY: That's in about eight days. So, you got -- we're going for the record, you got eight more days to go. I think the date is November 15th. That's when the pimple pops. November 15th. You heard it here first, that's when everybody, including you, are double pissed more than you are today. That's when everybody's paycheck stops. That's when the transit shuts down. That's when people are starving on SNAP. Everybody's going to be really, really unhappy and they're going to say the representation, red or blue, hey guys, get back to D.C. and solve this problem.
SIDNER: It is not just unhappy. There are children that will go without meals and that suffering --
O'LEARY: That shouldn't happen.
SIDNER: That shouldn't happen.
SIDNER: All right. We are going to move on.
Next, Illinois governor asking ICE to stop its raids, at least during Halloween. Kristi Noem responding saying, nope, not going to happen. We'll debate it.
Plus, sources tell CNN tonight that President Trump caught his own officials off guard when he demanded the U.S. resume nuclear testing after 30 years.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [22:20:00]
SIDNER: Tonight, a plea from the governor of Illinois for one day of relief.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRITZKER: I've sent a letter to Kristi Nome and to the Department of Homeland Security leadership asking them to pause all of their federal agent operations for the entirety of the Halloween weekend. I'm asking for basic human decency.
No child in America should have to go trick or treating in fear that they might be confronted with armed federal agents and have to inhale tear gas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: Kristi Noem heard the request and she responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NOEM: No, we're absolutely not willing to put on pause any work that we will do to keep communities safe. The fact that Governor Pritzker is asking for that is shameful and I think unfortunate that he doesn't recognize how important the work is that we do to make sure we're bringing criminals to justice and getting them off our streets, especially when we're going to send all of our kiddos out on the streets and going to events and enjoying the holiday season. We want to make sure that they're safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: All right. I know you're ready to jump in, so I'm going to start with you, Mr. Rocha. Is it shameful? Is what's the government --
ROCHA: It's aggravating me. I sit and think about these kids and my eight-year-old grandkids. But think about if you're a kid brought to this country, by no fault of your own, you come with your parents brought you here probably to escape something horrible that's going on in your country. If Kristi Noem wants to make people say, I'm all with you. I'm a Democrat. If you want to deport bad people and criminals, I'll help you load them up in my truck and take you.
But that ain't who you're messing with in Chicago. You're showing up at parks, at Home Depots messing with immigrants who the only law they broke is they crossed the border. Is that make them undocumented? Absolutely. But folks who come here, who've been here for 20 years, who've been paying taxes and following the rules, hoping someday our Congress could get their you know what together and pass a bill that says, let's let these people be a part of America, because just like our ancestors were a part of America.
It ain't get in line. There ain't no line to get in. And now we're punishing people who shouldn't be punished, who hadn't broken any laws. TAYLOR: I got to say, I strongly agree with Chuck on this and I say this as someone who has pushed for aggressive immigration enforcement, comprehensive immigration reform. In the first Bush administration, we had a policy to go after criminal aliens. Some may disagree. Some may say it went too far. There was a lot of egregious immigration policies, but we went after criminal aliens. And that is now no longer the case. And they're expanding that definition absurdly far, so as to make it, I think, almost impossible for Congress to eventually undertake comprehensive immigration reform because they're trying to get rid of these people who've been here for decades, who've established families, who've got roots in this country.
There was a time in which Republicans and Democrats wanted to solve this together, wanted comprehensive immigration reform, so we didn't see pictures like we saw with Elian Gonzalez 20 years ago become everyday photos in this country. That started a firestorm in this country and it was one photo. Now, every day we are seeing pictures like that. It's not America, it's not who we are, and we're getting too far afield on this issue,
FIGARO: But it is who we are. Let's stop saying it's not who we are. We can read the history of this country and know we who we are. Respectfully to Governor Pritzker, who I appreciate, did a lot of work with him on the Sonya Macy case, but this sit up here begging for people to get candy corn, using this press moment to say, let's just make sure everybody gets, you know, Halloween candy, Republicans are not moving Democrats. They're not. It's time for you to stop begging and start bossing.
There has yet to be any type of plan to actually build a bench, to actually get people for the midterms. Democrats should be running commercials nonstop, training people nonstop. I'm a divorced woman in law school with a kid in college. I train myself. 200-plus people myself with no funding, no private funding, no grant, no nonprofit, on teaching people how to run for office, on teaching people how to work on campaigns and teaching people how to be an organizer.
So, to sit up here and say, we just want to give relief and let everybody get candy corn, they're not doing it.
[22:25:04]
Republicans are not changing. They're pushing the line. They're not going to listen to the pleas. We're not going to work together. This is where we are. Let's stop saying this is not who we are in America. My ancestors respectfully disagree. This is exactly where we are. And until Democrats get the balls and the gumption to push the line and get our Project 2025, and when I say our, I'm talking about the people I represent, because, again, I'm an independent, then we're going to see more of the same. We have a year out, Sara. Where are the candidates? Where are they?
O'LEARY: I don't see this as a partisan issue at all.
FIGARO: It's absolutely one. O'LEARY: Listen, this issue is going all around the world, in France, in Switzerland, in England, in Canada, in Australia. Sovereignty of nations has become a thing all of a sudden. Maybe it's because the laws being enforced in the United States is very, very binary. There's no gray. You either came in here illegally or you didn't. And, I mean, that's a debate.
You're all having a great time talking about let's change the law and maybe it should be, but this same narrative's going on, look at what's going on in France right now. This is defining political parties. The same thing, immigration law in every country on Earth is being debated the same way. It's not just domestic and, unfortunately, it has nothing to do with Halloween, nothing to do with it. This is just a press moment, and, to me, a ridiculous one.
LAWLER: By the way, given the number of shootings that occur in Chicago on a given weekend, where's J.B. Pritzker asking for the criminals to stop shooting innocent children and innocent civilians in Chicago? He's asking law enforcement to stop doing their jobs.
Let's remember how this crisis started. 10.5 million migrants crossed into the United States under Joe Biden. He allowed the most open border in the history of the United States of America. Municipalities, like Chicago, like New York City, crumbling under the weight of the pressure of this, spending billions of dollars of taxpayer money to provide free housing, clothing, food, education, and healthcare, okay, it created a crisis across our country.
And so what the Trump administration is doing, yes, the vast majority of these people are criminal aliens or have previous orders of deportation against them, the vast majority, it's not even close. But when you look at these numbers, the fact is you have over 20 million undocumented in this country. I am a co-lead on the Dignity Act. I believe we need immigration reform. This immigration system is a joke.
My wife is an immigrant. I've been through the system. It is fundamentally broken. People who have been here 5, 10, 15, 20 years, who have not broken the law outside of crossing the border illegally or overstaying a visa, who are participating in our workforce, who are paying taxes, who are contributing to our communities, yes, there needs to be a legal pathway, not to citizenship, not amnesty, but a legal pathway that says, look, if you pay your taxes, if you pay a fine, if you have a job, if you're not collecting government benefits and you're not committing a crime, you will have a legal pathway. That's why I'm on the Bipartisan Dignity Act.
O'LEARY: That is not the law today.
LAWLER: Correct. That's why we've introduced the bill to fix it.
O'LEARY: So, you've hit the issue. I mean, until that gets fixed. This is going to keep going, because they have to enforce current law.
TAYLOR: And it's going to go back and forth and it's going to ping pong. I mean, you pointed to Biden and I'll agree with you. Biden blew it. Four years, he could have pursued it. He didn't. But you know who also blew it? I was helping run the Department of Homeland Security under Donald Trump's first administration. We blew it. Donald Trump had an opportunity to go do comprehensive immigration reform, and I will tell you, he refused to listen. He refused to listen to us when we went in and we explained it to him. But I will say he has that opportunity now. There is a Nixon goes to China moment on immigration. Let's fix this. And this is the third majoritarian issue, just like the shutdown where the majority of Americans are like, guys, just fix it.
LAWLER: I agree, he has an opportunity to actually fix our immigration system. But part of the reason why it's been so difficult is because the American people did not trust Congress or the executive, Republicans and Democrats, to actually secure the border. This border has actually been secured under Donald Trump. We have net zero illegal immigration into this country over the last six months. Let me just finish this one point. That is a significant difference between his first term, okay?
And when you think back to the first shutdown, 35 days, what was Donald Trump asking for? He was asking for funding for the border wall. I bet you Chuck Schumer looking back now, thinks I should have taken that deal, because Democrats got screwed by having an open border.
O'LEARY: Because tonight around midnight, the ICE dudes don't get a paycheck anymore. So, everybody can go out trick or treating, no ICE dudes, no cash flow, government's shut down. That's how it's going to get started.
SIDNER: They actually are getting paid.
FIGARO: All I know is Donald Trump --
TAYLOR: Kevin with a checkmate there. He is, like our first issue we talked about tonight, the shutdown solves our second issue, immigration.
O'LEARY: Yes.
[22:30:00]
I rest my case.
FIGARO: All I know is Donald Trump ran on immigration and they're not changing it for no candy corn. That's just the bottom line. They're going to continue on. So, if Democrats don't like it, change.
CHUCK ROCHA, "THE LATINO VOTE" PODCAST HOST: Something needs to be said here about immigrants and about immigrants that work in this country. I have three immigrants that work for me. None of them are U.S. citizens. They have legal status. And I pay them a lot of money, so much money. They max out on their Social Security by July or August.
They'll never ever get social security. And they're paying into the system to pay for your social security, and my social security. Everybody's social security. And that's just the three that work for me. Multiply that over millions of people. Take them out of the economy and see what happens to your social security.
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Economists did say that during COVID, it was the immigrant population that helped boost this economy in the United States. So --
O'LEARY: This is a land of immigrants. However, in the '60s, '50s, '52, '62, '72, '82, legal immigrants, most of them coming into the country from all around the world coming through the process of legal immigration, in every country today --
SIDNER: But that's not what boosted --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Just making a point here. You talked about Boston with the Irish or the --
(CROSSTALK)
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R) NEW YORK: I want to make a point that I think is important.
SIDNER: Last point.
LAWLER: We have a projected population decline, okay? Our birth rate has dropped from two to 1.66. You need a legal immigration system that functions, that addresses the economic needs of our country and the workforce shortages. We have a shortage of doctors, nurses, home health aides, teachers, engineers, et cetera.
Long term, you a functioning immigration system and with our baby boomer generation reaching the age of retirement, the outlays on Medicare and Social Security are significant. You need immigrants to help backfill those two critical systems --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: While you brought it up --
LAWLER: It's vital.
LEARY: We need engineers. The Chinese are putting out $250,000 a year.
LAWLER: Yes.
O'LEARY: We're doing about $30,000.
LAWLER: No, it's embarrassing.
O'LEARY: And so we kick -- we bring them into Harvard, we train them, MIT them --
LAWLER: And then we kick them out. O'LEARY: -- and then we kick them out. How dumb is that?
LAWLER: I have a bill to fix that. I have a bill to fix that.
SIDNER: The H-1B visas are another issue and we're going to go to break. But that other issue, rural hospitals are being hit because of that $100,000 that Donald Trump wants people to pay to get those H-1B visas. I just talked to a hospital administrator about that, so that is an issue.
LAWLER: Hospitals and non-profits and healthcare need to be exempted from that fee.
SIDNER: All right. Coming up, President Trump catching his own advisors off guard with his surprise announcement about nuclear weapons testing. We'll discuss that -- coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:37:12]
SIDNER: Surprise, not normally a word that you want associated with nuclear weapons. But tonight, it can be used to describe the President's order. Sources telling CNN that Trump's own advisors were caught off guard by his demand that the Pentagon resume nuclear testing after a 33-year moratorium. He added to his comments on Air Force One. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They seem to all be nuclear testing. We have more nuclear weapons than anybody. We don't do testing. We've halted it years, many years ago. But with others doing testing, I think it's appropriate that we do also.
UNKNOWN: Any details around the testing, Sir? Like where and when?
TRUMP: It'll be announced. You know, we have test sites. It'll be announced.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: Great, so he's saying we have test sites. We don't know exactly what that means. But we did talk to some engineers who said that, look, it's perfectly fine for us to use computers to do these simulations. We don't need to actually blow up nukes. Are you good with what Trump is proposing?
MILES TAYLOR, FORMER DHS CHIEF OF STAFF UNDER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: No, and the modeling is what we used to do in government. The experts would say, no, we don't need to detonate them. But I will tell you very honestly, Trump in the first term, at least when I was there, fantasized quite openly to advisors about wanting to blow up bombs.
It wasn't more complicated than that. He didn't have this 3D chess strategy. He wanted to see bombs blown up. That was alarming to people. I'll tell you, there was a meeting, I remember leaving the White House Situation Room when we were in this conflict with North Korea. If you remember at the time Donald Trump was tweeting at you know, North Korea's Kim Jong Un, bringing us closer and closer to conflict.
Anyone who thought that there was some sophisticated strategy to try to intimidate Kim didn't know the truth, which is that the President was free-styling, it was scaring his team, and the Secretary of Defense walked out of one of those meetings and turned us at the Department of Homeland Security and said, I hope you are preparing for the United States to go to war.
Those are very scary words to hear from the Secretary of Defense because the president was in a game of brinksmanship that was unplanned, that was putting us very close to it. So look, knowing that, I'm not excited that the man with his finger on the nuclear button wants to go play practice pressing the nuclear button.
We don't need to. The experts say we don't need to. And even if our adversaries are detonating nuclear weapons, it's not a good precedent to set for the United States to resume doing the same.
O'LEARY: I guarantee this will not happen for one singular reason. It's really expensive to actually do this. Did it back in the '60s, it was expensive. Today's dollars, I think you're talking billions. And what would really scare the crap out of your adversaries is not news --
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: But Kevin, it's expensive to redo and tear down half of the -- or the entire east wing of the White House but it's -- it's being done.
O'LEARY: You know, but that's a rounding error. By the way, Roosevelt did that, too. In his days, dollars that are equivalent to today's. I don't think that matters. I'm talking about this nuke blow-up nukes really blow them up -- billions. If you want to scare the crap out of an adversary, show them you're A.I. is way better than theirs.
[22:40:02]
So, you can go cause havoc in their country by shutting down their internet, and their electricity, and their utilities, and then robots go over and just rip their towns apart. That is what's going to scare people. And we better get caught up on that because the Chinese are kicking our butts right now in building data centers, big time.
SIDNER: Congressman, what do you think of this idea of testing nukes again? Hasn't it happened in 30 years?
LAWLER: Well, I think, our generals and admirals have responded over the last 48 hours in saying that they're not concerned about this. They don't think we're going to be testing in the realm of blowing them up. I think obviously, you know, given some of the threats from our adversaries and some of the things they are doing, certainly I think part of what the President is doing is putting them on notice.
But frankly, I think one of the things that decisions that he made this year that did put our adversaries on notice was the decision to strike Iran's nuclear facilities and the manner in which our military men and women executed on that mission.
O'LEARY: With technology. With technology.
LAWLER: Correct. And so, I think part of this, we are in a far different day than the 1960s or '70s. I do not think, you know, nuclear weapons are going to be blown up here. I do think from the standpoint of military readiness, from the standpoint of the threats posed by our adversaries.
In particular, Russia and China, when it comes to nuclear capabilities, of course, we always need to be vigilant. And we need to be prepared. And from a technological standpoint, I certainly think they need to make sure that they are up to snuff.
ROCHA: Kevin is right. A billion is a big number and as a country boy, a billion -- I don't know how to count to a billion. But a billion is a lot, like giving Argentina $40 billion is a lot of money and the American people, I'm going to connect these two states with me. $40 billion is a lot of money. American people are like, why are we giving money to Argentina when soybean farmers are filing for bankruptcy?
Just like even rednecks in trailer houses in East Texas like me understand nuclear bad. Somebody having a button with nuclear bad. I remember having nuclear drills when I was in middle school and getting under the desk. The simplistic thing, this is not going to go over. And whether he does it not, Congressman, I get that he may not do it, whatever.
I can already make the TV commercial to tell the people what he said about it. It don't make no sense. We can dust them off and make sure they're pretty, do some simulations, but we shouldn't be firing news.
FIGARO: Well, let me just say this as a veteran, nobody at this table can say what Donald Trump's going to do. You know, whether it's going to cost too much or whether you're saying, oh no, they're not going to do it. Donald J. Trump has no costs that he is not willing to do to show who is the boss. He will pay the cost to be the boss.
So, sitting around talking about what he won't do, he said everything that they said he wouldn't do and then some. And so, if it comes down to a who-got-the-biggest-nukes-pissing-contest, and if he's willing to do it, he'll do it. It just depends on what type.
That's what the average everyday American person is thinking, that Donald Trump will do what Donald Trump wants to do and everybody will fall in line. That's what we're seeing in real time.
TAYLOR: I will say as a piece of advice to his aides right now, having been in the position of President says very stupid idea, we must walk it back. Kevin is right. One of the things he's most sensitive to, he is a very price-conscious man. When he told us he wanted to put alligators and snakes in a giant mode across the southern border, that wasn't a joke, by the way. He brought it up multiple times.
The only thing that dissuaded him was not the idea of having to take care of alligators or people being gobbled up by them or just how stupid the whole thing was. It was that we told him it would cost like 30 or $40 billion to do. And he was like, oh, it's really expensive. We shouldn't do it.
So, I think Kevin's right here. If we want to avoid the nuclear game, I don't think we're going to persuade Donald Trump that this is a bad norm to break. We're just going to have to persuade him it's really expensive and that's a waste of time. Unfortunately, that's the truth about the President of the United States.
SIDNER: All right. Let's move on. Communist, Marxist, deportation target -- all GOP terms used to describe Democratic Socialist Zohran Mamdani. In five days, will those critics also be calling him mayor? We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:48:47]
SIDNER: Tonight, the front-runner for New York City mayor is responding to Republicans who are calling him a Marxist, a communist, and a big problem for Democrats in Congress who are trying to please the far left by endorsing him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D) NEW YORK MAYORAL CANDIDATE: I believe the national Democrats are holding the line right now to actually call the question on the Trump administration which ran a presidential campaign on the premise of cheaper groceries and is now using the power that they won to make it even harder to afford those groceries.
And to hear someone try and pin this on me when what we've actually seen is that Americans just want their health care. They just want to be able to afford their groceries, the day-to-day lives. It shows how out of touch the Republican Party is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: But just days away from the election, the nation's top Democrat and New York native Chuck Schumer still hasn't said if he will support Mamdani. We have seen an endorsement, Congressman Lawler, from the House Minority Leader Jeffries. We've seen it from Kathy Hochul. What is your take on why Chuck Schumer will not endorse him or when he was asked whether he'd vote for him, he wouldn't answer that either?
LAWLER: He basically walked off stage left. Look, Chuck Schumer has been in elected office for 50 years.
[22:50:00]
The end is coming. He -- mark my words, will not be running for reelection because he will lose a Democratic primary to AOC and he knows it. This is about holding on to his power in the Senate at this point. It's why he has shut the government down. It's why he's trying to appeal to the left base.
But even he knows that Zohran Mamdani is a disaster for Democrats. We have -- we live in the highest tax state in the country. It's one of the worst business climates in America. The quality of life has declined. Crime has been a major issue in New York for the last few years.
Zohran's policies -- he obviously is an avowed socialist. He openly calls himself that. But when you talk about seizing the means of production as he has, when you talk about banning private property ownership as he has, freezing the rent, government run grocery stores -- by the way, Kansas City shut them down because they don't work.
When you look at his policies with respect to law enforcement, not just defunding the police, but wanting to shut down the gang database, that's insane. The fact is his policies are disaster. He wants to raise taxes by $9 billion. Hakeem Jeffries waited to the very last minute because he's petrified of a primary from CHIOC, a New York City councilman, who is fully in cahoots with Zohran. And Zohran won Hakeem's district with 70 percent of the vote.
(CROSSTALK)
ROCHA: Let me just say this.
LAWLER: So, this is what is driving this right now.
SIDNER: Zohran has changed some of these things. He's renounced his calls to defund the police. He has apologized for past statements about the police. He's changed over the course of all --
(CROSSTALK)
LAWLER: When you say you want to hire social workers, and you want to keep the police force at current levels when you are talking about getting rid of the gang database when gang activity in New York City is major problem --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Stop debating this because we should congratulate him on a well-run campaign. Mayoral politics in New York for the last 60 years is always money for nothing, chicks for free, elect me. And then once you get in, you deal with the reality of the state legislature. You can't do squat without them. So, there's a check and balance going on here. This guy's going to be mayor 100 percent.
I tried to meet with him, so did other investors. I'm a realist. I'm an investor. I got to put money to work in New York. It's like a separate country. This guy can't do any of this. All this crapola he's talking about was very smart. He's a great orator. He beat everybody out and I do the same thing. You want it, you got it. It's free.
You want to be free, bus ride, you got it. Subway, it's free. You want free food? It's all free. Don't worry about it. Now he's mayor. He says, oh golly, those guys up in state legislature, they won't let me do what I got to do. But don't worry, I'm the mayor. That's exactly what's going down here.
ROCHA: I'm going give him the benefit of the doubt because he also proved everybody wrong who said that he couldn't win. When he started, he was at one percent. Now, he's doing it. If you listen to what the Congressman has said, it sounds horrible. He's whooping (ph) everybody's ass (ph)
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: Well, because he knocked on, as you know, he knocked on almost two million doors. He knocked on two million doors. I'm always going to bet on the candidate that knocks on the doors. So, at the end of the day, he won a -- he did a great campaign.
ROCHA: Is he your special friend now?
FIGARO: No, no, because I'm not a socialist at all. I want to make it very plain and clear. Even though I worked on a Bernie Sanders campaign, I'm not a socialist. But Democrats who are moderate, who are center, you let this -- you let this wide open. You let it wide open. You literally haven't been talking to the needs of the people. You refuse to knock on doors.
You give out those same lame endorsements over and over and over that nobody gives a damn about. He could have -- Hakeem Jeffries could have kept the endorsement because it didn't make a difference. So, this is what you're seeing all over the country. But what I do want Democrats to know is what worked here won't necessarily work in the South.
So, if you're taking this same, this same, oh, just come free, free, free, particularly with African-Americans, which by the way, Mamdani, I got some problems with you. I'm going to wait on. I'm going to see how you do. And then I'll be following back up on that. But if you think this same, same strategy is going to work in the South, that's where you're going to realize this will not be able to transfer and that's what I'm interested to see --
(CROSSTALK)
ROCHA: And Democrats should listen up and know that what my good sister is saying is exactly true. This don't work in South Texas, don't work in New Mexico, but you can take pieces of it.
FIGARO: Right.
ROCHA: He still had 50,000 people show up to volunteer.
FIGARO: Yes.
ROCHA: He raised a ton of money from individual donors, not from corporations. And he also talked about affordability. Whether whatever he was selling, he was talking to people's needs. Guess who else did that? Donald Trump did that.
FIGARO: That's correct,
ROCHA: Donald Trump spent the folks grievances because they felt like nobody cared and they wanted to disrupt the system.
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: We agree.
ROCHA: And that's what politics is today.
(CROSSTALK)
TAYLOR: But he is -- he is -- I will say --
UNKNOWN: Yes.
TAYLOR: -- he is going to -- Republicans are going to make him a very effective boogeyman.
(CROSSTALK)
TAYLOR: And rightly, I mean, if I as a conservative constructed the ideal opposition candidate on the Democratic side, I would have designed Mamdani.
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: And it's time for him to be a boogeyman today.
TAYLOR: So, not like -- it's not just going to be New York.
LAWLER: He will be the face of the Democratic Party.
TAYLOR: That's correct.
SIDNER: He will be. We'll see what happens when he most likely will become --
[22:55:00]
FIGARO: He will be winning.
LAWLER: He will be the mayor.
SIDNER: According to the polls. All right everyone, thank you so much for being here. Coming up, England's Prince Andrew is no longer a prince. CNN will speak to a royal watcher about why this happened now. But first a programming note. CNN looks at the Superdome's long road to restoration on New Orleans, Soul of a City. It airs Sunday at 10 P.M. on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [23:00:00]
SIDNER: Before we skedaddle, it's an exciting week here at CNN. We are now streaming in the U.S. That means you can watch "NewsNight" live or whenever you want to in the CNN app. You can stream the news live anytime, exploring exclusive reporting and watch a library of award-winning original series and films. Scan the Q.R. code on the screen or visit cnn.com/watch for more. And thank you for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
