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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Floats Execution for Democrats Who Say to Ignore Illegal Orders; Washington Post Reports, Coast Guard Won't Classify Swastikas, Nooses as Hate Symbols. Unemployment at Highest Level in Nearly Four Years; Trump Approval Rating Is Down. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired November 20, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, the president of the United States calls for the execution of several Democrats for telling troops to follow the law.
SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): I'm not going to shut up.
REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): It's going to get a lot of us killed.
PHILLIP: Plus, the Coast Guard will reportedly no longer classify swastikas and nooses as hate symbols, even though they do in fact symbolize hate.
Also, Donald Trump's happy talk on the economy is falling flat as more and more Americans reject his alternative reality.
J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: The thing that I'd ask for the American people is a little bit of patient.
PHILLIP: And a judge rules the president's military takeover of the nation's capital is illegal.
Live at the table, Leigh McGowan, Ben Ferguson, Neera Tanden, Tim Parrish, Paul Rieckhoff and Richard Quest.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening, I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America's talking about, death by hanging. After months of lecturing the left about rhetoric, Donald Trump floats the execution of several Democrats mainly for telling the military to follow the law. Six Democrats who served in the military or intel community released a video urging service members to disobey any illegal orders from the administration. And according to Article 92 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, that sentiment is clearly stated there, saying that troops would only be punished for disobeying lawful orders.
But the president called them traitors for that, accusing them of seditious behavior that's punishable by death. And he promoted messages to calling them terrorists, a disgrace to the uniform, and one that called for their hanging. The press secretary says Trump wasn't calling for executions, but she also mischaracterized the message from those Democrats. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: You have sitting members of the United States Congress who conspired together to orchestrate a video message to members of the United States military to active duty service members, to members of the national security apparatus, encouraging them to defy the president's lawful orders.
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): You can refuse illegal orders.
SLOTKIN: You can refuse illegal orders.
CROW: You must refuse illegal orders.
SLOTKIN: No one has to carry out orders that violate the law.
REP. CHRISSY HOULAHAN (D-PA): Or our Constitution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: It's pretty crystal clear, Paul Rieckhoff. She's saying they're advocating for members of the military to refuse legal orders and the video clearly states otherwise. Why do you think that this really kind of got underneath the skin of the president and the White House?
PAUL RIECKHOFF, IRAQ WAR VETERAN: I don't know, but it's unacceptable. And I think it's a time for know everybody no matter what your political background is to call it what it is. I mean, the president of the United States is calling for the execution of members of Congress. It is dangerous, it is unprecedented, it is bad for our national security, it is divisive and it's amplifying what is already a very dangerous environment across this country.
We've all talked around this table and other places about the need to bring down the temperature because of the threat level to everybody in this country. He just turned it up to a hundred. And these folks are now in immediate danger, so is everyone else around them, so is everyone in Congress. And I think it's a day that has our enemies celebrating. Our children are watching, and I think this is of the utmost seriousness, and it's a time for people to put their political differences aside and call it for what it is,
PHILLIP: Tim?
TIM PARRISH, CONSERVATIVE STRATEGIST: I actually think, and, Paul, I agree with you, we've got to bring down the temperature, but I do think it's interesting. The president did not call for anyone to be hanged or be executed. You're talking about a person, and I find the irony in this, who had an assassination attempt against his life, who we saw conservatives get assassinated with Charlie Kirk. And so the president would never call for this to actually happen. This is political theater is what it is.
And you talk about our enemies around the world and what they see. What they've actually seen is members of Congress tell members of the military to defy the orders of the commander-in-chief.
[22:05:03]
(CROSSTALKS)
RIECKHOFF: People can see it for themselves.
PARRISH: He didn't call for that. You can show one of his tweets.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: That part, I'm going to stop you. We did just, in fact, show the tweets where he did do that. He not only called it, you know, seditious conspiracy, but he amplified a tweet that said that they should be punished by hanging. He did that.
PARRISH: The president of the United States did not call for members of Congress.
RIECKHOFF: Okay. But he called them traitors. He called them traitors. Let's say that --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: But why -- hold on, Tim. Why would he amplify a message saying that those members should be punished with hanging? Why?
PARRISH: What the president's tweet said, he simply called it a seditious act on what --
PHILLIP: Okay. But you're not answering my -- Tim, you're not answering my question. Why would he amplify that message? Why would the president of the United States do that?
PARRISH: Why would members of Congress, where they have an all-time low rating of the American people --
PHILLIP: Why would the president -- I'm going to ask you again. Why would the president of the United States amplify a message that says explicitly that they should be punished by hanging?
PARRISH: The president -- and I'm going to say again, Abby. The president of the United States did not call for any members of Congress to be hanged.
LEIGH MCGOWAN, PODCAST HOST, POLITICSGIRL: He re-tweeted it. That's like calling -- RIECKHOFF: Well, look, we're now getting lost in the sauce here. He is amplifying threats to members of Congress. However you cut it, if you're explaining, you're losing. And I think everybody who agrees objective here can see what this was. It's not good for our country, right?
PHILLIP: But isn't this the very same thing that a few months ago agree, Republicans were saying Democrats were doing, except that now the president's doing it and it's okay?
BEN FERGUSON, HOST, THE BEN FERGUSON SHOW: I go back to the video, like we wouldn't be having this conversation right now if it wasn't for a ridiculous video that was put out by Democrats telling people in uniform to defy the president of the United States of America.
MCGOWAN: But that's not what they said.
FERGUSON: That's a fact.
(CROSSTALKS)
FERGUSON: I was quiet for a long time. That was like a long time for me. So, let me --
PHILLIP: It was, yes. So, let me -- but, Ben, we just laid out that the video says you should not follow illegal orders. Do you think that members of the military should follow illegal orders?
FERGUSON: I think it's pretty clear that this was an obvious video that was put out without any issue around it, saying, if you don't like what the president's doing --
PHILLIP: That's literally not what it said.
FERGUSON: It literally -- I'll go back to what Mark said on this channel, by the way, after he sent out a fundraising email, which is the reason why this is a total like ball of crap to start with. This was a fight they wanted with the president. He's sending out fundraising emails tonight while claiming, oh my gosh, I'm afraid of my life, please send me money for reelection. If you're -- it pitches such a terrible moment and political intrigue. You don't send out fundraising emails saying, please send me money after I said to people in military uniform defy the orders of the president of United to America. That's what he said in his email. Did you look at them email.
NEERA TANDEN, PRESIDENT AND CEO, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: Yes, I did. You're not --
FERGUSON: He asked for the money. He said, give me money tonight while I'm saying I'm afraid for my life? Come on.
TANDEN: Because the president attacked him. And also Donald Trump --
FERGUSON: No. He attacked the president United States to America by telling people in the military to not obey the president of the United States to America if he does something you don't like. TANDEN: I know you want to make one plus one equals seven. He did not --
PHILLIP: The more you say it --
RIECKHOFF: Can I say something about the video?
PHILLIP: The more you say it does not make --
FERGUSON: Did he send out a fundraising email? Yes or no?
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. We just played for --
FERGUSON: I'm not.
TANDEN: We were.
FERGUSON: He sent out a fundraiser.
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. Hold on a second. We just played for people at home exactly what the video says.
FERGUSON: Yes, I've watched it.
PHILLIP: You cannot sit here and lie about that same video. That doesn't work.
FERGUSON: So, you're telling me --
PHILLIP: The video did not say that they should defy the orders of the president said, that you cannot follow illegal orders. That's in the Military Court of justice.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Okay.
TANDEN: The U.S. military's chief lawyer is actually making the case that bombing the Venezuelans is actually, could be illegal. There's actual things that happening right now that the --
(CROSSTALKS)
RIECKHOFF: Can I address the video? Can I address the video, Abby?
PARRISH: Some confirming that a sitting --
(CROSSTALKS)
PARRISH: The service members are not dumb. Every time they take their oath, they know that they are supposed to obey the orders of those --
TANDEN: Then what is the president's --
PARRISH: They don't need members of Congress to go on T.V. --
TANDEN: I'm sorry --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Just one second, let's --
RIECKHOFF: The video itself, in my view, was unnecessary. You could even argue it was imprecise. Hold on, let me finish. It was sloppy. I don't think you need to tell members of the military that they have an obligation to resist an illegal order. They already know that.
But by putting out that video does not warrant a response from the president calling you a traitor and calling for your execution.
MCGOWAN: This video --
RIECKHOFF: That is the difference here.
MCGOWAN: This video would not have been necessary if the president hadn't completely replaced senior military leadership and the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the people that we could look up for.
[22:10:00]
It wouldn't be necessary if he hadn't gone in at the beginning of his service and fired so many JAG attorneys that tell you if something is illegal or an illegal --
FERGUSON: Every president does that. Every president does that.
MCGOWAN: It wouldn't be necessary if the president had fires inspectors general, who are the police of the military, or if you hadn't called every single high military commander in to tell them that their biggest enemy was going to be domestic and at home, and if they didn't like it, they could quit.
The reason they did this video was to remind younger soldiers who might not have someone in command that they are not responsible to follow illegal orders. The U.S. law actually requires military members to disobey unlawful orders. No, they do not necessarily know that. And the thing is --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on guys. Hold on guys. We are all talking at the same time. Let's all stop talking.
RIECKHOFF: Abby's in charge. Hold on.
PHILLIP: Let's all just stop talking for one second, okay? Let's stop talking for one second, including you, Leigh, just a second, okay? We take your point. Tim, you're saying it does not need to be said.
PARRISH: Well, what I'm saying is I can't let my colleagues sit here and say, members of the military are too stupid to understand that they don't need to say --
MCGOWAN: I did not say that, sir, that's ridiculous.
PARRISH: -- that they don't need to obey the orders of -- and members of the military know this. It's in their oath every time they get promoted.
(CROSSTALKS)
MCGOWAN: If I'm an 18-year-old soldier and my president, who I have had in my life since I was nine years old, tells me to shoot a protester, which this president did do in his first term, and Mark Esper said, no, we cannot do that, sir, if I'm an 18-year-old soldier and my president tells me to do that, they are saying, as former military, as people who have also made an oath to the Constitution, an oath to this country who are now sitting members of Congress, we are reminding you that you do not have to obey. And it's on the screen this big, bigger than their head, an illegal order.
PARRISH: That's a very dangerous precedent to set.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: We're going to pause on this conversation. We're going to continue it when we come back at the end of the next break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Welcome back. As we were just discussing, I mean, there's a disagreement here about whether this needed to be said in the first place, but let's say that it didn't need to be said, and that military members know already that they should only follow legal orders, and why on Earth would the president then pivot and threaten those members of Congress for saying something that was so plainly obvious?
FERGUSON: Go ahead.
TANDEN: Can I just say what I think is so odd about this is, what is the problem to Donald Trump and saying, don't do illegal things? I mean, why is that any threat to the president? You would think that most presidents are actually not planning to do anything illegal. No, let me just finish. And I guess I would just come back to this fact, which is that his own Pentagon lawyers right now are disputing the legality of the Venezuelan just shoot downs of boats.
And so I think the idea that the far right is saying, what could you imagine. And I would disagree with you, Paul. I think this is totally wrong. When we have a current situation in which the president's own lawyers, people who work for the Pentagon are saying it's possibly illegal that these actions are happening. Now, imagine --
(CROSSTALKS)
TANDEN: They weren't specific because who knows what will be next.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. Go ahead, Ben.
FERGUSON: This is --
PHILLIP: Neera, hang on a second. Go ahead, Ben.
FERGUSON: This is the reason why the president responded the way he did. It is very clear this video was put out without any reason behind it. There was no red flag to put this out. It was done clearly for fundraising, number one.
MCGOWAN: He has already broken the law.
FERGUSON: Let me finish, Let me finish, and you can yell at me if you want to. It was clearly done premeditated, fundraising. You got emails going out at 6:00 on the day this happened. That was clearly orchestrated and pre-planned.
PHILLIP: Hold on, Neera.
FERGUSON: Again, and the second thing is you have a president that's pretty used to Democrats saying, we don't pay attention to laws. We don't enforce laws with ICE. We don't enforce laws with the border. We don't enforce laws with anything we don't like with Donald Trump. So, this was a wink and a nod to military officials, if you don't like Donald Trump, you don't have to follow anything that he says that you don't really want to.
And oh, by the way, the caveat, the best part about this is, then when he responds, we will literally be so shallow because there is no issue here. We're just trying to raise money off of it.
PHILLIP: But, Ben --
FERGUSON: That's it. It's the money thing.
PHILLIP: Ben, if this is just a fundraising ploy by Democrats, why is Trump calling it seditious conspiracy? Why is he likening it to treason? Why is he suggesting that they should be --
FERGUSON: I think when you suggest that military leaders should go against the president of the United States of America --
PHILLIP: But you just said that this was a fundraising ploy.
FERGUSON: Well, it was. The Democrat Party --
PHILLIP: I'm just taking you at your own --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: If it's fundraising ploy, why is the president then acting as if this is an act -- this is a conspiracy to overthrow the government?
FERGUSON: Abby --
PHILLIP: But wait.
FERGUSON: It can be two things at once.
PHILLIP: We were all here things at once on January 6th when he called the people breaking into the Capitol patriots. How do those things line up?
FERGUSON: He said, go peacefully.
PHILLIP: He called them patriots, Ben.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: We are talking about different things. In the moment, as they were breaking into the Capitol, Donald Trump released a video from the White House and he called those insurrectionists patriots. He proceeded to then pardon them. How can that same man turn around and say a video that you just called a fundraising ploy is a seditious conspiracy?
[22:20:00]
FERGUSON: Are they raising money off of it?
PHILLIP: But --
FERGUSON: (INAUDIBLE) because I say, it's because Mark Kelly sent out a fundraising email. I didn't do that. Mark did.
(CROSSTALKS)
RIECKHOFF: Can I take a --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: All right. Go ahead, Paul.
RIECKHOFF: So, sitting here in between this as it continues to go on, this is how our military feels right now. This is how the men and women of our military feel right now. They feel like they're in the middle of this. Yes, every single day --
FERGUSON: Don't put out the video.
RIECKHOFF: They're -- I'm still talking. And that they're a political chew toy in the middle of this madness. But the president has a unique responsibility to set the command climate, to set the tone, to set an example. He has to be more careful with his language, especially if he talks about things like X.
FERGUSON: So do Democrats.
RIECKHOFF: Can you please let me finish? I show you respect, show me respect. That's what needs to happen in this country. And the president has to show respect. He has to show honor. He has to show integrity.
Yesterday he called a woman piggy. Now, he's calling an astronaut who's a Navy veteran a traitor. He has to be more careful and precise with his language, especially because he's the commander-in-chief.
FERGUSON: Democrats called him a Nazi.
RIECKHOFF: He has a unique responsibility. He is the president. He has a unique responsibility.
FERGUSON: He called him a Nazi and a fascist. And he's been celebrated when he got shot. Don't lecture us about words, please.
PHILLIP: The sitting vice president also called him a Nazi. So, don't --
TANDEN: And we just made swastikas --
PHILLIP: But, okay, here's another thing that this, to your point, does anti-woke mean that swastikas and nooses are now no longer called hate symbols in the United States Coast Guard? According to The Washington Post, they discovered a change in the Coast Guard's harassing behavior prevention response and accountability policy. That appears to raise that very question.
Here are the two recent versions of that policy. On the left there, you see a document from 2023 that states the depictions of nooses and swastikas, also Confederate symbols, for example, would constitute, quote, a potential hate incident. But now, look on the right, and you'll see that the Coast Guard wants to call them potentially divisive symbols.
An anonymous Coast Guard official told The Washington Post, we don't deserve the trust of the nation if we are unclear about the divisiveness of swastikas.
I should also add that it appears is going to take another look at this now that it has been -- I don't -- I mean, I have no idea why this would even come up, but, I mean, what do you think?
MCGOWAN: See, I don't know. I mean, aside from like a swastika is a hate symbol, it represents hate. What else does it represent if not hate? How many people died under a swastika? If I drew a swastika on your car and you were a Jewish person, what am I saying to you? If I put a noose on your car, what would I be saying to you? When it's associated with certain groups of people that have been treated in a certain way, that is why they become hate symbols.
So, for any part of our military, to adjust their qualifications like this on hate symbols, it should be a glaring red light for us that we are in real trouble because this is very problematic.
PHILLIP: The anti-woke push taking us to this place where we're like softening the punishment for putting a swastika or a noose somewhere in the military. PARRISH: So, I think that the folks over at Washington Post most have gone to like clay miles.com or, and got jokes out of his file of jokes and put -- this is not a real story. The commandant of -- the acting commandant of the Coast Guard came out and said, this is categorically false. This is not their policy.
I go back to our military members again. They know, Paul knows this, just like I do, they know that there are standards and that these are hate symbols. And I will tell you, as Paul again will note, when you're getting shot at, you're getting blown up, you don't care who comes, and the QRF can help you and get you out.
(CROSSTALKS)
PARRISH: It's all your brothers and your sisters. And if you are trying to play politics, this story, not you. I'm sorry, not you, The Washington Post is trying to play politics with a fake story. That's not true.
RIECKHOFF: Everybody in the military, including you in the Marine Corps, me in the Army, knows check the writing, check what's in writing. And in writing, it's up there for the whole world to see, you can find it on the internet, it does not make it clear, right? It says that this is a potentially divisive thing. Swastika and nooses, there's zero tolerance for them in the military.
PARRISH: Of course.
RIECKHOFF: And there should be zero tolerance for anybody who doesn't understand that. If you work in government and you don't understand that, you need to resign today and find another job.
(CROSSTALKS)
RIECKHOFF: Did you see the regulations? Did you see the writing? Did you see what's said? Read what it said, right? Change the language.
PHILLIP: Hold on a second.
FERGUSON: The Post got this wrong. The U.S. Coast Guard put out this tweet, quote, the claims the U.S. Coast Guard will not -- will no longer classify swastikas, nooses or other extremist imagery as prohibited symbols are categorically false.
PHILLIP: That's not what the Post story says.
FERGUSON: That is what the U.S. policy says.
PHILLIP: Yes, I know that's the --
FERGUSON: The Coast Guard is saying this is false.
PHILLIP: Hold on, Ben.
FERGUSON: The Department of Homeland Security said on you guys are now just -- RIECKHOFF: And here's the red. Here's the red, chapter 11, B, potentially divisive symbols and flags. One, potentially divisive symbols and flags include but are not limited to the following, a noose, a swastika, there it is.
(CROSSTALKS)
[22:25:00]
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. Ben, we're going to use thinking -- we're going to put our thinking caps.
FERGUSON: I use it every day.
PHILLIP: Okay?
PHILLIP: You read that statement. That is not actually -- what they are denying is not actually what The Washington Post story says. The Washington Post story doesn't say that it's not prohibited. It says that it has been reclassified from a hate symbol to something that is, quote, potentially divisive.
FERGUSON: So --
PHILLIP: Paul just read it.
FERGUSON: All right. To be clear, you guys think --
PHILLIP: Ben, let me finish, please. Let me --
FERGUSON: -- if a news shows up, no one's going to get in trouble?
PHILLIP: Ben, let me finish. So, when The Washington Post puts out this story and then the Coast Guard says, we're going to take a leather look at this, that is an acknowledgement that in the writing, they have changed how it is characterized in writing. And to Paul's point, that is what really matters at the end of the day.
FERGUSON: No, it matters what the Coast Guard leadership said this afternoon.
PHILLIP: So, they're --
RIECKHOFF: No, that's spinning. That's spinning.
(CROSSTALKS)
RIECKHOFF: Do you think it's going to stay this way? Do you think they're going to change it?
(CROSSTALKS)
FERGUSON: I think when the Coast Guard comes out and says it the way that they said it, I go back to what he said, this is a ridiculous story. They're saying it's not accurate from the --
RIECKHOFF: The change -- it's absolutely accurate. It has to be changed. The Coast Guard will change it.
TANDEN: This is a regulation that's out there. The truth is it downgrades the prohibition, it waters it down. And, obviously, they do not like the blowback, so they're putting out quotes like this, but, unfortunately, it's already in writing.
So, I mean, people could say whatever they want, but the facts are the Coast Guard made a change in the level of prohibition and downgraded their burden (INAUDIBLE). And you know what I say is, I got to be honest here, like when you have people like Nick Fuentes out there saying horrifying things, I'm not actually surprised.
FERGUSON: By the way, I condemn him all the time, and Tucker.
TANDEN: You may. But the president has never said I was wrong to have dinner with him.
PARRISH: Again, what does that have to do with our Coast Guard members?
TANDEN: But I'm saying -- because what I'm saying is that I actually think hard right, the government are may trying to send messages that some of this language isn't as bad as it used to be. And I'm sorry that that is the case in our country that we have to worry about that. But when the president of the United States has dinner with Nick Fuentes who says things like, I love Hitler --
(CROSSTALKS)
TANDEN: It does, actually. You're sending a message. It's not the Coast Guard members. It's Coast Guard leadership.
PARRISH: We're talking about the Coast Guard.
RIECKHOFF: You just need to say somebody screwed up --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Guys, hang on a second.
PARRISH: I will challenge you to come with me to Coast Guard Base and see if you see one Coast Guard member with a swastika or any of that nonsense in their barracks room, on their ship, in their car, any of those things. Those impugn the integrity of Coast Guard members because of Nick Fuentes.
PHILLIP: Hold on.
TANDEN: No. What's outrageous here is that --
PARRISH: Your (INAUDIBLE) is outrageous.
PHILLIP: Hold on, guys, just one at a time, please.
TANDEN: It is the leadership.
PHILLIP: It's really impossible to hear you.
TANDEN: It is the leadership of the Coast Guard, not members of the Coast Guard, who make the rules and regulations. So, I am impugning the integrity of the leadership of the Coast Guard, who are political -- who is a political appointee, essentially put in by Donald Trump. The woman who was -- the woman who led the Coast Guard before was fired on day one.
PARRISH: Every president can fire --
TANDEN: Absolutely. But it's not -- I'm not worried about a single Coast Guard person who's like an actual person doing the work, I'm worried about the leadership, and we should be.
FERGUSON: The Trump administration has also come out and said that this is not actually true.
PHILLIP: As I've said then, they are denying something that was never alleged. We all know that trick in the book, the P.R. book.
Paul, thank you very much.
RIECKHOFF: My pleasure.
PHILLIP: As polls show Americans aren't buying Trump's economic optimism, his vice president appears to be breaking with him over it. Another special guest is going to join us at the table.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:30:00]
PHILLIP: The long awaited September jobs report is now out and it is as messy as it gets. The good news is that the labor market are added 119,000 jobs in September. That is more than double what economists expected. Here's the bad news. Unemployment rose 4.4 percent and it is the highest level in nearly four years.
And then there are the revisions which paint an even darker picture. The data shows the U.S. economy actually shed jobs in August. On the heels of today's report J.D. Vance, the vice president, seemed to acknowledge the pain that Americans are feeling and he issued this plea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: My message to the American people who are still feeling like things are unaffordable, who are still feeling like things are rough out there is look, we get it and we hear you. Even though we've made incredible progress, we understand that there's a lot more work to do. And the thing that I'd ask for the American people is a little bit of patience. This economy was not harmed in 10 months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Richard Quest is in our fifth seat. He's probably correct that, you know, not everything that we're seeing here is just the last four months in the making. However, I will say that Americans, when you look at the polling and they are asked, you know, whether Trump's policies are helping them, most of them say that it has hurt them.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Let's separate the politics from the economics, if that's possible at this table, but we'll have a good try at it. The economics are that the economy is actually not doing that badly at the moment.
[22:35:01]
It could be doing better and there could be greater strength, but some of the damage is as a result of tariffs, indecision, uncertainty and all these various other policies. It's A.I. that's basically driven the market and is driving the economy at least for the moment. The politics is much -- but the economics are also complicated because as you say with this Jobs Report, there's a good bit and a bad bit, but the trend is not good.
Whichever way you look at it, the trend is not good on the jobs numbers. Now, the politics is really dangerous for the President because time and again, when you try and tell electorates that things aren't as bad as they think they are --
PHILLIP: Or just wait, just you wait.
QUEST: It always goes wrong because the electorate knows what's happening in their pocket when they go to the supermarket. And that's, I think, what J.D. Vance is trying to negotiate. But when you have the President at McDonald's saying, everything's fine, there's no inflation. Do you know the other day I heard him say, I mean, with all due respect, I heard him say, under Biden we had the worst inflation ever. I don't care what definition you have, that was never the worst inflation under the last administration, period. It's a lie, it's not true. So, when you get this dichotomy --
BEN FERGUSON, "THE BEN FERGUSON SHOW HOST": When was it?
QUEST: Sorry?
FERGUSON: When was the worst then?
QUEST: Oh.
FERGUSON: Because in my lifetime it was Biden, by the numbers.
QUEST: No, no, 1920s.
FERGUSON: I wasn't alive in 1920s.
QUEST: No, nor was I. In 1220s --
(CROSSTALK) PHILLIP: Listening comprehension. Listening comprehension people.
FERGUSON: 1920s?
PHILLIP: The worst ever -- the worst ever is not the worst in my lifetime, okay? Those are not the same thing. Let's not be silly.
QUEST: Well, and on that point, Sir, on that point --
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: And I think when the Vice President was talking, he's talking about people that are watching him in the moment. He's saying it's never been worse than it was when Joe Biden was president.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: No, he's -- with respect, Sir, he's not. He's saying --
FERGUSON: You're saying he's talking about dead people?
QUEST: He's saying the worst ever. By the way, in the country's history, I think it's --
FERGUSON: It's a stretch.
QUEST: Let me ask you then, were you alive in the 1970s?
FERGUSON: I was not.
QUEST: 1980s?
UNKNOWN: But a lot of people were.
FERGUSON: 1981.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: Right when Jimmy Carter screwed everything up and Ronald Reagan helped us out.
QUEST: And we had higher inflation then than we have now. So the point I'm saying is you can't play fast and loose with certain facts and expect the electorate to go along with you when they know it's not true.
FERGUSON: I agree. That's why they elected him, because the American people realized how bad it was when Joe Biden was president. And they realize that they were being lied to, for example, about the job numbers. I'm old enough to remember when they lied about 818,000 jobs in the jobs report.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: The job report number of the last quarter last year, they had to refine them back. PHILLIP: Hold on a second.
FERGUSON: About a million jobs they lied about.
PHILLIP: Hold on there. Let me just correct you, Ben.
FERGUSON: Please.
PHILLIP: Because first of all, you are saying that the Biden administration lied about the jobs numbers. That is false. There are revisions that -- don't pull out your Google.
FERGUSON: No, it's housebudget.gov that literally says you're wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: 818,000 fewer jobs added than economy previously reported. That is from our government.
PHILLIP: Those are not -- that is not the Biden administration lying about the jobs numbers.
FERGUSON: Abby, that's the definition of fact-checking.
PHILLIP: There are economic -- excuse me. There are job number revisions that happen every single month. And then annually, there are job number revisions that also happen. A revision of that size was very similar to a revision of the job numbers that also happened in -- was it 2009, I believe it was.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Ben, stop. Every year, the job numbers are revised. Sometimes they're revised up, sometimes they're revised down. The president is not responsible for putting out those numbers, good or bad.
FERGUSON: So the Biden administration did not lie when they said there was 816,000 jobs.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: No, they did not.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: So, wow. Okay.
LEIGH MCGOWAN, AUTHOR, "A RETURN TO COMMON SENSE": Stop with the Biden administration. We're in the Trump administration.
PHILLIP: I just think --
FERGUSON: I explained why Trump was elected.
PHILLIP: I just think, honestly, let's stop for a second, because that is very, very dishonest.
FERGUSON: It's not dishonest.
PHILLIP: You know it.
FERGUSON: True or false.
PHILLIP: So you tell me then --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Hold on hold on. You tell me then, did the Trump administration lie about the job numbers over the summer that have been revised down? Did they lie?
FERGUSON: Not to the point of 818,000.
PHILLIP: No, that's not what I asked you. Did they lie?
QUEST: Focus on America today.
FERGUSON: I'm okay with the provisions.
PHILLIP: Ben --
FERGUSON: These were made up lies to the American people for an election day.
UNKNOWN: But you're lying.
FERGUSON: It was for Election Day.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: You -- Ben, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, my friend, you are lying.
FERGUSON: I'm not lying.
PHILLIP: Because these were not --
UNKNOWN: This is exhausting.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: This is why you guys lost the election.
MCGOWAN: I'm sure it is why we lost the election.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Let me make one other factual point because I think this is super important. Donald Trump ran on lowering the cost of goods.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: He also ran on a manufacturing renaissance in this country. Guess what has not happened? Manufacturing in the last, in this most recent jobs report has been down 6000 jobs and since the top of the year -- we have a chart that you can see. This is the trajectory.
[22:40:00]
It was going up a little bit in January and since then it has been going down.
QUEST: If the --
PHILLIP: So --
QUEST: If the President manages to get manufacturing of the right sort back it will certainly be an absolute achievement. And credit to the administration for what they are doing in certain key areas. Where I find it fanciful to the point of ludicrous is when he says $17 trillion of new investment from --since the administration came in to over egg the pudding. Investment is coming into the United States, yes. They're getting it back --
FERGUSON: They're getting it back in numbers, yes.
QUEST: Are they are getting it by bullying, by catchling (ph), but also to rid -- but he's coming -- I'll grant you.
FERGUSON: Thanks.
QUEST: Please, $17 trillion?
(CROSSTALK)
NEERA TANDEN, PRESIDENT AND CEO, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: Can I -- yes, you know, let's just bring it back to you today.
PHILLIP: Very quickly.
TANDEN: Very quickly. The President has the lowest approvals, actually lower than Joe Biden's economic approvals at the worst moments of Joe Biden's presidency. He -- Donald Trump has a lower economic approval today. And don't ask me, ask Fox News. It's a Fox News poll that's showing low numbers for him, but it's not just Fox News. It's Marquette, it's Reuters, all the polls. Even Russ Moussine is showing a big dip. And that is because the public is concerned about the President's policies that have raised their prices.
MCGOWAN: But that's because U.S. prices --
PHILLIP: We have to take q quick break. We will resume this on the other side of it. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:46:07]
PHILLIP: All right, welcome back. Leigh, you had a thought. MCGOWAN: Yes, I just wanted to speak on behalf of regular Americans
that don't speak in inward investment or polls. I think the bottom line is U.S. grocery prices have hit an all-time high. Energy prices are up. Health care premiums are going up. We just canceled the October jobs report because they're bad. I just watched online today a bunch of Kroger employees being mass fired on Zoom. We had mass layoffs at Verizon, at Starbucks, at Meta, at Microsoft, at UPS.
So like the economy is not feeling good to people because it's not good for people. At the end of the day, you can talk about all these big numbers, but Trump will get on alternate reality where he is a brilliant genius and everything is perfect as in the cats. But people are going to believe what they see and what they feel in their power bills with real money that we don't have.
(CROSSTALK)
TIM PARRISH, CONSERVATIVE STRATEGIST: I don't think Americans are eating dogs and cats or whatever you said. But the fact of the matter is this.
(CROSSTALK)
MCGOWAN: It's not what I said. It's definitely not what I said. It's what J.D. said and what Trump said and how they won an election. And then it was gone.
PHILLIP: Hold on.
PARRISH: The fact of the matter is the journalist here just pointed out that the economy is in fact not in the dumps. It's not exactly what you said.
MCGOWAN: I didn't say it's in the dumps. I said people are struggling.
PARRISH: Actually, egg prices right now are down. Actually, oil prices are actually down.
(CROSSTALK)
MCGOWAN: Did you buy eggs? I buy eggs.
PHILLIP: Hold on a second.
MCGOWAN: I go to a grocery store.
(CROSSTALK)
PARRISH: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You're just simply hypocritical for someone who yelled at me about letting you finish. You should take your advice. You let me finish.
MCGOWAN: Yes, do tell me. I buy eggs.
PARRISH: The fact of the matter is that nobody's talking about is the absolute lack of confidence that was injected in the economy by Chuck Schumer's 43 days.
MCGOWAN: Oh my God, Chuck Schumer's 43 days --
(CROSSTALK)
PARRISH: -- then maybe, people would have confidence --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Go ahead, Richard and then --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: One at a time, please.
(CROSSTALK)
MCGOWAN: -- Chuck Schumer. Got it.
QUEST: I'm reading your notes and there's something interesting in --
MCGOWAN: Don't read my notes.
QUEST: They're more interesting than mine. Listen, the point is, what really worries me about all of this is that there are these very large layoffs at the moment for valid reasons because of the fundamental shift in the economy that's taking place here, Europe, everywhere, A.I., et cetera, we all know the reasons. I am seriously worried that in this country there's no real plan for it. That there is no real design for how the economy --
Now, I agree with trade that there is this idea of putting chips, but for goodness sake, the President even criticized the CHIP Act. The CHIP Act has done phenomenal things for actually helping to bring back that. By and large, this country needs -- decides to tweet, you know, Brit, Brit, stay home. I've got both passports.
MCGOWAN: The immigrant side of the table.
FERGUSON: He's got both.
QUEST: I've got both.
FERGUSON: We'll count you in at just one, okay?
MCGOWAN: Can I just say, honestly, I think the challenge here is one of the -- some of the uncertainty in the economy is actually based on the President himself, own policies on tariffs. They've created uncertainty for business. They are putting price -- they are increasing prices for goods. And we know they're increasing prices for goods because the President has rolled some of them back because of food price concerns.
So I think the actual concern here about the job loss is that they are driven, many of them are A.I., but a lot of them are driven by uncertainty created by this new tariff regime. And that regime is exactly, it's the least popular policy of the President -- of the President --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: And this is the difference. Abby, let me say this.
(CROSSTALK)
TANDEN: And it is actually a burden on working class people. And that is why you are seeing anger not just from Democrats and independents but also a lot of disappointment in Trump.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: I'm trying real hard not to --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Ben, you may speak.
FERGUSON: Thank you.
TANDEN: The floor is yours.
[22:50:00]
FERGUSON: All right.
PHILLIP: I know that was hard.
FERGUSON: I think the point that you guys are completely missing about Donald Trump here, and especially the Vice President, is I like the fact the Vice President was being like honest.
UNKNOWN: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: We're working on this.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: That's his job, Sir. That's his job.
FERGUSON: Again, it's a lot better than being lied to. You guys were lying for years with Joe Biden saying that inflation was transitory.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Forgive me.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: Let me finish. You guys were lying for years with Joe Biden saying inflation was transitory.
(CROSSTALK) FERGUSON: And yet you say it wasn't real. Let me finish. Let me finish.
QUEST: It was the Fed Chair that said it was transitory.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: And the White House continued to put it out there over and over. You have a vice president saying, hey, we're working on things. You have a president that said, hey, there were problems and we need to get jobs manufacturing back to United States of America. We are being taken advantage of on tariffs. It takes some time to do all of the things that were messed up in our economy. By the way, there are some good things there.
You mentioned earlier, I also go back, buying eggs doesn't make you special. I bought him, he's bought him. The fact that you act like that somehow like a special thing. Egg prices are down, beef prices are up, and he's trying to fix that with Packers. The price of fuel is down. That's a good thing. The President is actually admitting there's problems and trying to fix them unlike the last administration.
MCGOWAN: When did he admit there was problems? He literally stood on a stage today --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: He ran off --
QUEST: Can I just say it is not normal --
(CROSSTALK)
MCGOWAN: -- and said it was the most perfect economy ever. So, I don't know --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Let me actually just play real quick, Richard, before you say that.
QUEST: Sure.
PHILLIP: This is what Trump is actually saying about the economy.
QUEST: Oh dear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The United States was the hottest country in the world. Prices are coming down and all of that stuff. We have the hottest economy we've ever had. We have the best economy we've ever had.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Not the best of times, maybe not the worst of times, but definitely not the best economy we've had.
QUEST: No, not the best economy we've had. And certainly prices are not coming down.
FERGUSON: Some are. Some are.
QUEST: Just a minute, Sir. So, isolated cases, yes, but by and large, inflation is still over --
FERGUSON: Gasoline is isolated?
QUEST: Just a minute.
FERGUSON: That's big. Every American buys it. Eggs, every American buys it.
QUSEST: But if you look at the CPI, if you look at the measures, this is higher than the federal. By the way, what I want to point out is it's not normal for the President of the United States in the presence of the treasury secretary and his commerce secretary to say he's the one who stopped me firing the chair of the Fed. On the moment he starts saying that, the whole uncertainty starts again. It is not normal that the President of the United States --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: And I think this is a big chiropractic adjustment and the country voted for it needed and the President's doing it.
PARRISH: Also, can I just add -- going along with -- going along with --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: Going along with -- going along with --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: -- wasn't working.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Let me ask you a question because you've both been dancing around it. Would you not acknowledge that Trump's tariff policy has injected A, uncertainty and B, higher prices into this economy?
PARRISH: Abby, the comment that I want to make is going back to a point that my friend --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Hold on, if you're not going to answer the question, I'll move on.
PARRISH: I will answer the question if you allow me to answer --
PHILLIP: Are you going to answer it? Are you going to answer it?
PARRISH: If you will allow me, I will answer the question.
PHILLIP: All right, go ahead. Yes.
PARRISH: Yes, the tariffs have had an impact on uncertainty in the market and on the economy. That's not -- no one is denying that fact. But the fact of the matter is what my friend here said earlier about things that everyday Americans who you want to speak to care about. Richard, yes, Americans do care about the things that -- and we should take those victory laps on the prices that have gone down, like eggs and fuel. Those are big expenses that Americans pay for.
Absolutely, we should take that victory lap. And we shouldn't take a victory lap because as I said earlier, that your president in 10 months, in less than 10 months today, actually on the 20th, is working at this and they're being transparent with the American people and saying, we inherited --
(CROSSTALK)
PARRISH: -- we inherited the highest -- wait, wait, let me finish. You've been letting me finish queen all night. Now let me finish please.
(CROSSTALK)
PARRISH: We should be celebrating that your president as an American citizen is working after inheriting the worst inflation in our --
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: No, no. How long did he get away with that?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Guys, we're the end of the line here. Next for us, the panel is going to give us their night caps, "Airport Rules" edition. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:58:43]
[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]
SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: People dress up like they're going to bed when they fly. We want to push people as we come into a really busy travel season. Help people out. Be in a good mood. Dress up. Bring civility back to travel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That was Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy coming for your coordinated joggers on the airplane, including dressing better for your flight. He wants you to be nicer and dress better. So for tonight's nightcap, what would be your rule for airport conduct? You have 30 seconds to say your piece. Neera.
TANDEN: My rule would be that you should, if you're a member of Congress, you should not scream profanities at the TSA. That is my rule. Let's call it the Nancy Mace rule.
PHILLIP: Okay.
FERGUSON: Dear America, here's how it works. When they say boarding group one, if you have a one on your phone, that's who they're talking to. If you have a two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, or nine, sit down.
PHILLIP: All right. Tim?
PARRISH: Mine is deboarding the plane or de-planning in regular order. If you are in 54-C, and I'm an 18-A. Why are you walking past me when we're deplaning?
MCGOWAN: I'm going to go with bare feet. Bare feet for me is a thing. It's fine if you want to wear your no shoes or your no socks, but once you get on the plane put some socks on because when little toes come up beside me I have trouble with other people's toes.
[23:00:04]
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: Transportation secretary is right. You should dress up. There was a time when we used to wear our Sunday best.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: I have found carrying a box of chocolates to give the woman at check-in or man at check-in and say, do you have a chocolate? Works a treat. Gets you an upgrade.
(CROSSTALK)
PARRISH: I still believe in freedom in America.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right, guys.
PARRISH: Get what you want on internet.
QUEST: Standard. That's the problem.
PHILLIP: Everyone, thank you very much. Controversial one tonight. And thanks for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
