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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Green (R-GA) Quitting Congress Amid Trump Feud; Trump And Mamdani Meet Inside White House Despite Communist Criticism; Trump Says A Lot Of His Supporters Voted For Mamdani. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired November 21, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, one of MAGA's first followers abruptly announces she's quitting Congress after her falling out with Donald Trump. Is this a warning sign to the president?
Plus, who's the king of Queens? Their nicknames for each other, the communist and the fascist, but instead of a circus, a kumbaya.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Some of his ideas really are the same ideas that I have.
PHILLIP: Also, MAGA can no longer use the bird and the pump as defenses, as Trump's allies say, middle class concerns are a whole lot of stuffing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think affordability is greatly overrated.
PHILLIP: Live at the table, Adam Mackler, Brianna Lyman, Joe Borelli and Cari Champion.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
We are back at the test kitchen at the Food Network, our sister company, for Fall Fridays, and we'll catch up with that crowd later in the show. But, first, let's get right to the breaking news tonight. Is MAGA cracking?
One of the president's most loyal followers for a decade says that she is resigning from Congress after a bitter fallout with President Trump. Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene has been very vocal about what she thinks the president is doing wrong lately, from the economy to trying to get the Epstein files hidden. And in turn, Trump has called her a traitor and unendorsed her ahead of a primary. Well, now, Greene says that she is resigning effective January, and here are some of the reasons why. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Loyalty should be a two-way street, and we should be able to vote our conscience.
America first should mean America first and only Americans first.
Standing up for American women who were raped at 14 years old, trafficked and used by rich, powerful men should not result in me being called a traitor and threatened by the president of the United States.
I refuse to be a battered wife, hoping it all goes away and gets better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: An extraordinary development for one of the main characters of the Trump era, frankly. And I should just note just a few minutes ago over at ABC, Rachel Scott spoke to President Trump and he called Marjorie Taylor Greene's resignation great news for the country. He said, she didn't give him any heads-up about it.
Joe, I mean, can you imagine that this has ended this way and is this a sign that MAGA is really starting to crack up over many things, but perhaps the Epstein files being one of the biggest things?
JOE BORELLI (R), FORMER REPUBLICAN LEADER, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL: I definitely didn't have Trump getting along with Mamdani and him being against Marjorie Taylor Greene on my bingo card going into --
PHILLIP: Yes, none of us did.
BORELLI: None of us probably did, but I'm one of those people who is not entirely upset to see her go. You called her a character just now. You basically phrased her as a character. I think after four years in Congress, you either have to make the choice, have you become a statesman or a stateswoman, or have you become a cartoon character, and I think she realized that she was going down that latter path.
She tried to rebrand herself. Remember, I mean, you're not a conservative in going on the view unless you're trying to remake yourself as this new person. She's tried to go on The View. She tried to say that she's no longer this divisive person, but someone who made a career of only being divisive to be divisive, I just think, it's going to be no hard loss on the Republican Party.
PHILLIP: I feel like that was fine when she was supporting Trump, but now all of a sudden it's not?
ADAM MOCKLER, COMMENTATOR, MEIDASTOUCH: It's like Marjorie Taylor's Green. Marjorie Taylor Greene is realizing for the first time what it's like to be on the opposition side of Trump. She has clapped him on for years, as he has over and over used the same vile rhetoric towards Democrats, towards other Republicans. But now she takes a principled stance for the first time and decides I'm going to split with him on the Epstein files. And he goes, scorched Earth calls her Marjorie Traitor Greene, unendorses her over and over --
PHILLIP: Marjorie Traitor Browne, he changed her --
MOCKLER: It was so lazy too. He says, because green grass turns brown. This guy's losing his juice.
But the point is, Donald Trump has kicked so many people out of public life because they don't want to be the subject of his ire. This is what Mike Pence has gone through. This is what Liz Cheney has gone through. This is what Elissa Slotkin is going through right now. He calls Marjorie a traitor, says he wants to execute or hang Democrats, and now Marjorie --
BORELLI: You've answered the question that you asked about whether MAGA is fracturing. The truth is MAGA is not fracturing. If Donald Trump couldn't simply unendorse someone, and that'll eliminate her chances of being there, that's only because the majority of people, whether they're in her Georgia district or elsewhere in the country, are going to follow President Trump.
[22:05:00]
MOCKLER: Well, he hasn't eliminated her chance. She didn't get an endorsement the first time.
BORELLI: This is an entrenchment. This is an entrenchment, not a fracturing.
PHILLIP: Do we think that this is the end of her political career?
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I don't think so, but people are saying that, and you said that she tried to rebrand herself. I think that she's tried to rebrand herself a few times since she's been an office, whether it was, okay, I believe in conspiracy theories first, and then I want to be a team player, and now she's rebranding herself, which, to me, isn't her being a character. It's actually her saying, for whatever reasons. It's actually her actually saying, I'm caring about the people that I represent. I'm looking for my constituency and I want to help them.
So, I don't think her career is over. However, this is highly unusual. It does not happen. And if it does happen, it's usually because somebody is sick or there's something else going on. And in my opinion, like I truly believe she has a future, a bright future. Where she lands, who knows? But she did this knowing full well what it meant. I don't think that she took this lightly and said, I'm leaving, because I just feel like leaving.
PHILLIP: But there are other cracks in the MAGA coalition right now. Marjorie Taylor Greene is not just talking about the Epstein files, which is a big issue and the entirety of the House and the Senate saved for one person voted to release them, which despite Trump flip- flopping at the last minute, he clearly doesn't want these files out because he's been very opposed to it.
But the economy, she's been saying, and she said in her video tonight, the economy is not working for regular people. Prices are too high. Not enough has been done about it. She doesn't think that the president is addressing that issue. And more and more Republicans are starting to say that too. So, there are some cracks. And is Trump going to actually address that or is he just going to go scorch Earth on everyone?
BRIANNA LYMAN, REPORTER, THE FEDERALIST: So, I don't think that is a crack in the MAGA coalition and the MAGA party. I think Marjorie Taylor Greene identified legitimate frustrations that not only MAGA and conservatives have, but anybody who wants their government to actually function, everybody has those same concerns because the gridlock in Congress has gotten to a point where nothing gets done.
And I think what Marjorie Taylor Greene is also hitting on, frustration-wise, is that we have a Republican majority, we have a trifecta, what have we gotten from it? There are Republican voters, low propensity Republican voters, they don't like to turn out. Democrats turn out better. And they turned out last November. They delivered this majority. What do we have to cha for it right now?
CHAMPION: And why are we still arguing? Why are we so mad?
PHILLIP: Wouldn't Republicans say, oh, well it's the tax cuts? I mean, I think this kind of puts that strategy right squarely on the table.
CHAMPION: Yes.
PHILLIP: The tax cuts were what they spent all of their political capital on this year. And voters are basically still saying they don't think that they're better off.
LYMAN: Well, I think voters are saying that they're not better off when they think of -- one of the reasons Donald Trump appealed to people last election is people remember 2017 through 2019 under President Trump prior to pandemic what the economy felt like. Things are trending in the right direction under Donald Trump. But that is not to say that there are still pains.
MOCKLER: By what indicator?
LYMAN: For example, your -- the wages, your average paycheck can pay for 1 percent more. Now, I'm not saying, wow, look, yes, 1 percent more. The problem -- what I'm saying though is that is an indicator things are trending in the right direction, but it's not tangible. People don't feel it. And if Republicans cannot bring tangible solutions by November, they're going to lose.
MOCKLER: Can I hop in on the MAGA's fracture really quickly? Because one point that I think you missed is that people like Nick Fuentes or this America first movement are now going to be hardcore lobbying to get Marjorie Taylor Greene on their side, which will only accelerate this MAGA divide between a more, I don't know, anti-Israel, a more really populous movement versus now what's kind of becoming like the MAGA establishment, which is weird.
So, Nick Fuentes, he's a legitimate political operator. I know that he's like a hugely divisive dude online, but he is trying to make moves to gain leverage over the Republican Party. There is a very real chance that he capitalizes on this in such a way that Marjorie is then in his camp, I don't think that would be good for the current MAGA establishment.
CHAMPION: I think the fact that she is actually resigning and talking bad about in a sense of like, I'm out of here. It is a fracture. This is a huge fracture. You can't say that this person who was so loyal to him isn't a fracture.
Trending in the right direction, someone would disagree with that. They'd ask about affordability and groceries and all of the things that we're going to talk about, obviously. But you can't -- people are not feeling that way right now today.
LYMAN: I don't disagree. I don't disagree. But I do think when we're talking about trending in the right direction, you know, you're trending in the right direction when inflation is down under this president compared to less. Those are things that are moving in a positive direction. But I'm not disagreeing that the average Republican out there is saying, my grocery bills aren't going down that much. My gas bills haven't changed that much. So, what are Republicans doing?
PHILLIP: Well, we'll talk a lot more about the economy in a little bit. I want to play a little bit more what Marjorie Taylor Greene has been saying lately. This was on Sunday. She was talking about the political climate that she's in. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREENE: I would like to say humbly, I'm sorry for taking part in the toxic politics. It's very bad for our country. And it's been something I've thought about a lot, especially since Charlie Kirk was assassinated, is that we -- I'm only responsible for myself and my own words and actions and I am going -- I am committed, and I've been working on this a lot lately, to put down the knives in politics.
[22:10:05]
I really just want to see people be kind to one another.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, Joe, I mean, I really want to know your kind of analysis of that. Do you believe that's genuine? Do you see why she would take that stance and then decide I can't battle it out in a Republican primary, Trump's going to be siccing, like five or six people on me in the primary, no thank you?
BORELLI: This is someone who probably went home to her district, you know, over the last shutdown, looked around and realized that in four years in the House of Representative, she has made almost no impact for her constituents. She has been divisive for the sake of being divisive.
PHILLIP: That has never been a problem. I mean, explain that to me.
MOCKLER: She learns it from Trump.
PHILLIP: But, hold on. But, Joe --
BORELLI: But I've also never said that she's this great person. It's not that I --
PHILLIP: But don't you think like her voters have never been -- if that is true, I think Democrats would argue that is true -- Republicans, historically, have not said that about her. But if that is true and her voters didn't really care until this moment, what does that say?
BORELLI: Look, what I was going to say is compare it to someone like Jim Jordan, who some people find abrasive, but his pugilistic style is to come with facts, he brings receipts and maybe he rubs people the wrong way, but there's intention there and there's a rationale. She just trolled people. She spent four years in the House of Representatives to troll people for no reason. So, like --
MOCKLER: Well, she learned it from Trump. Trump posted A.I. videos of Obama being arrested. Trump post videos of Hakeem Jeffries in a sombrero. Trump says --
(CROSSTALKS)
MOCKLER: Marjorie Taylor Greene's style is downstream from Trump's style. It's not unique in any way.
BORELLI: Because Trump does all those funny things with an objective.
MOCKLER: They're not funny. The execution of Democrats is funny?
BORELLI: The sombrero thing, like I would -- like if I put sombrero on me, I think it's hysterical.
CHAMPION: Why?
BORELLI: I think it's funny. I think he's made fun of the --
CHAMPION: So, what's difference between what she does and what Trump does?
MOCKLER: Exactly, you're defending enough.
BORELLI: I think she does it for no purpose and for no gain, and she has nothing to show for.
MOCKLER: What's his purpose --
PHILLIP: All right. We're going to hit pause on this and continue to talk after the break. Another guest who's going to join us at the table.
Plus, as Trump calls Greene a traitor, he apparently is now best buds with the guy who he called a communist not too long ago. The very surreal scene alongside Zohran Mamdani in the Oval Office, that's ahead
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: We are back at the Food Network and Errol Lewis joins us at the table now.
But I want to continue, Adam. You were saying that Marjorie Taylor Greene is downstream of the kind of politics that Trump made a thing in America and now she's gone.
MOCKLER: Yes. Joe keeps trying to draw this distinction where Marjorie Taylor Greene is some character, but Trump isn't somehow. I just think that Marjorie Taylor Greene's style of divisive politics is directly downstream from how Donald Trump entered the political stage. He said that Obama wasn't born in America. Hillary should be locked up. His entire political rise was through divisiveness, and Marjorie hopped on that train and was very divisive and is now -- she's now switching that she's the -- now that she's the ire of the MAGA -- or, sorry, the subject of the MAGA ire. She's switching her position and saying that I can't take this.
I mean, this is what so many Democrats have been through. So --
CHAMPION: What happened first?
MOCKLER: What do you mean?
CHAMPION: Did she switch her politics because she was the ire, or did she become the ire after she switched her politics?
MOCKLER: That's a good point.
PHILLIP: Well, I mean, I think she -- well, it depends on who you ask. I mean, she definitely started voicing these concerns earlier, and then it built and it built and it built, until Trump finally lashed out. Now, so Laura Loomer tonight is saying that -- two things. One, she thinks that Marjorie Taylor Greene wants Democrats to have an upper hand because they're down a seat now in the House, but the other thing is that she thinks that Marjorie Taylor Greene might for president in 2028.
ERROL LOUIS, POLITICAL ANCHOR, SPECTRUM NEWS: That's entirely possible. I think the most interesting part of her speech describing why she's leaving politics, at least for the moment, is her projection that the Republicans are going to lose control of the House, that there will be --
PHILLIP: And that Trump will be impeached.
LOUIS: Yes, that there will be an impeachment. I mean, she foresees or she's forecasting really dire times ahead for the MAGA movement, and I don't know if she's wrong about that. This is something that people should really take to heart, where she's saying like, listen, if everything was going swimmingly well and we were going to maintain control and everything was going to be fine, I might stay, but that's not going to happen, and now would be a good time. She's sort of the canary in the coal mine.
CHAMPION: Right. She's the first, right? And it's always hard to be the first. I think there are other people who feel this exact same way and they have to see how this plays out for her before they also decide to do exactly what she did. Not necessarily with the same actual script or theater of it all, but I could see this happening because it's hard to be the first. You understand that, in many ways.
PHILLIP: Brianna?
LYMAN: I think to your point actually, if Marjorie Taylor Greene is bowing out now because -- and I do think that she's right to foresee Republicans have a really good chance of losing the House, and if they do, Donald Trump will certainly face some kind of impeachment inquiry, if she's bailing out now, because it's going to get tough, that is not someone who is a leader. That's someone who buckles under pressure. So, I actually don't think that would bode well for a 2028 presidential run trying to explain to voters like, yes, I bat out because there was some pressure on me, I couldn't withstand it, but I want to also now be president. So, I do think that'll be hard to navigate.
MOCKLER: The pressure were death threats coming from the MAGA fan base. And like as much as --
LYMAN: She's been swatted several times by Democrats.
MOCKLER: As much as I disagree with Marjorie Taylor Greene, I think this is more of an example of leadership than just going along with the flow of whatever Donald Trump wants. I think she's differentiating herself and she's trying to carve at least her own lane. And I think that it's at least responsible (ph).
LOUIS: But she has been such a warrior for the MAGA movement and for President Trump personally. And then for her to then say, look, I'm thinking about running for governor, I'm thinking about running for senator, and it turns out, as we all know, the loyalty flows one way with Donald Trump, there's no reciprocal loyalty, she's got plenty of reasons to want to change where she is and what she's doing. I mean, and that's --
PHILLIP: We have seen people leave the MAGA tent before.
[22:20:02]
She's not less conservative, you know? She's still extremely --
BORELLI: Who has gone on to have a successful career? Kinzinger --
CHAMPION: Nobody. That's --
BORELLI: Liz Cheney. I mean, this is sort the -- MOCKLER: A lot of them are hiding.
BORELLI: But, again, but to go back to my point, it's not a fracture of the MAGA movement. It's not a fracture of the Republican Party. When you cross the Republican Party, apparently, there's no room for you. And she's realized that, and now she's signing off.
MOCKLER: What did she cross the Republican Party on mainly?
BORELLI: Look, I mean, she's attacked the president. She attacked the president.
MOCKLER: On the Epstein files?
BORELLI: On the Epstein files, on the economy. And you know what?
MOCKLKER: I think she attacked the president because he was trying to stymie the release of the files that were going to expose --
LYMAN: Well, let's be clear. President Trump ran the one who's actually delivering transparency that Biden could have done in four years and didn't do on the Epstein files. So, to pretend like Donald Trump is like, oh my God, the Epstein files could never come out, he's done more than Joe Biden did in four years.
MOCKLKER: He's done more than embarrassing himself. Remember that clip where he's like, are we still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This is a -- do you remember when he said that? This is a guy who just is running away from his past. I mean, he does not want to be transparent.
BORELLI: Well, thankfully, he signed the bill and we'll find out what's happening. At the same time --
MOCKLKER: After he cried it out of his mouth.
BORELLI: It was the Republican Party who ran on releasing the Epstein file. It was the Republican Party who -- with the exception of one guy --
MOCKLER: And it blew up in their face.
BORELLI: -- voted unanimously, and the president signed the bill. So, we're going to have that. That conversation is over until the files come out.
PHILLIP: But, Joe, we were saying that she attacked the president on the economy. You could also argue on both of these things. She was actually trying to help the president by basically saying, hey, Mr. President, you're in danger, okay, that this is a problem, a political problem that you need to address. Because what she was saying is that what I'm hearing from my constituents is that they're actually concerned about costs. And Trump didn't want to listen to that until recently, until the off-year elections that we had earlier this month.
BORELLI: There's no doubt that the Republicans internally are talking about messaging going into next year's election. There's no question about that. There's no question. And we've seen it in the president's rhetoric and some of the strategic changes on the tariffs that they are concerned that affordability will be an issue. So, I don't fault her for having that idea. It's taking the fight public.
CHAMPION: Well, what was she supposed to do? Is he someone who's going to listen to her? Like do you think that she didn't call him on phone?
BORELLI: Well, she texted it, yes.
CHAMPION: Do you think she tried it behind the scenes? Do you think this is the first time they've ever had this conversation? So, because she couldn't get anywhere and she took it public, this is the problem?
PHILLIP: I mean, one of the things that really, I mean, I can't get out of my head, is that she said in her video, I refuse to be a battered woman.
CHAMPION: Correct, which means I've been dealing with this stuff behind the scenes more than what we probably even know.
PHILLIP: Honestly, it kind of suggested to me that there's something -- I think it's easy to be cynical and political about every little thing that happens in politics, but sometimes people are humans and they just can't take it anymore.
CHAMPION: That's it.
LOUIS: Oh, that's right.
PHILLIP: And it feels to me like she actually got to a limit of what she felt like she --
CHAMPION: You're talking about her humanity.
BORELLI: (INAUDIBLE) I don't like her.
CHAMPION: And that is correct.
BORELLI: She's a troll, and then it comes on her and now she's a victim.
PHILLIP: Hey, I'm not -- honestly, I'm not arguing with Joe about that though. Because I think that Joe actually probably is fundamentally --
BORELLI: I'm not happy about that. You're going to poke, poke, poke --
PHILLIP: He's fundamentally right about that.
BORELLI: And now, oh, I'm the victim. Get lost.
CHAMPMION: No one's saying she's a victim.
BORELI: She's saying she's a victim. I'm a battered woman. Like shut up, you've been controlling people for four years.
CHAMPION: So, you're like, take the L.
(CROSSTALKS)
CHAMPION: I'm done. You called me a traitor. But I tried to help you. I came to you. I wanted to give you what it was. We don't even know -- by the way, a lot of us don't even know we're speculating on what she said behind the scenes. I don't think she --
BORELLI: Well, she showed her the text. I mean --
CHAMPION: I don't -- yes, but she didn't show those. I mean, come on. Stop it. Stop it.
LOUIS: There's a humiliation ritual that Donald Trump makes a lot of his subordinates go through, right, and some people handle it better than others. You look at the way that he's fired people publicly, that he's insulted their appearance, that -- look at what he did to Chris Christie, other people who have tried to help him in both in the first term and now, and she's just decided she doesn't want to do it anymore. And that's just a very human response. Not everybody is cut out for this.
PHILLIP: Well, Chris Christie didn't take the message the first time. He came back, and then he got kicked to the curb again.
LOUIS: People swallow as much as they can.
PHILLIP: So, we shall see. This is certainly one of the more fascinating developments.
Next for us, Trump called him a communist and he called Trump a fascist. But now it appears that Mamdani and Trump are playing nice. Is it real or is it just for show? We'll debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:25:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, a surreal love fest between Donald Trump and the next mayor of New York. Zohran Mamdani visiting the White House today in a meeting that had to be seen to be believed in light of what each man has said about each other over the last few months. This was extraordinary.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: He is a communist. We're going to go to a communistic -- that is so bad for New York.
I think I met with a very -- I met with a man who's a very rational person. I met with a man who wants to see -- really wants to see New York be great again.
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D-NEW YORK CITY, NY): If there is any way to terrify a despot, it is by dismantling the very conditions that allowed him to accumulate power. TRUMP: And I've been called much worse than a despot. So, it's not that insulting. Maybe he -- I think he'll change his mind after we get to working together.
MAMDANI: I am Donald Trump's worst nightmare as a progressive Muslim immigrant who actually fights for the things that I believe in.
What I really appreciate about the president is that the meeting that we had focused not on places of disagreement.
TRUMP: That Mamdani thing is a -- it's a disaster waiting to happen. We can't have a communist in charge of a great, supposedly free enterprise, kind of a representative city.
REPORTER: Would you feel comfortable living in New York City under a Mamdani administration?
TRUMP: Yes, I would. I really would. Especially after the meeting.
[22:30:00]
MAMDANI: Our city is under attack by an authoritarian Trump administration.
UNKNOWN: Are you affirming that you think President Trump is a fascist?
MAMDANI: I've spoken about --
(CROSSTALK)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: That's okay, you can just say yes.
MAMDANI: Okay.
TRUMP: It's easier.
MAMDANI: Yes.
TRUMP: It's easier than explaining it. I don't mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Trump walked back his threats to cut funding to New York. And tonight, he even posted photos of the visit saying the meeting was a great honor. Errol, what's going on? I mean, Zohran Mamdani won because he was opposed to Trump. How's this going to play?
ERROL LOUIS, "SPECTRUM NEWS" POLITICAL ANCHOR: The city of New York won because there was a non-zero chance that there would be National Guard troops in chaos in the streets even before the inauguration of Mamdani. So, it's great that that's not necessarily going to happen or at least it's not going to happen imminently. I think, look, there are a couple of things that are going on. One is that Mamdani came the way you're supposed to come to Donald
Trump. You come with strength, and you come with some kind of a notoriety with some popularity. So he didn't just win the election, he won in a way that nobody's ever seen before. He went from one percent in the polls to winning the Democratic primary in about six months.
He's got a certain amount of celebrity Donald Trump noted -- President Trump noted that there's more -- there were more press there -- international press included than for some heads of state. That gets the attention of somebody like a Donald Trump.
I guess finally, you know, look, it is part of the Trump story. The family fortune -- the Trump family fortune came from working with mayors and local officials in New York. And I think it's just kind of hardwired into him that being friendly with the mayor of New York can be a very lucrative proposition.
PHILLIP: He said he used to want that job.
LOUIS: Absolutely.
PHILLIP: It actually is a bit surprising he never actually did it. But Brianna, Republicans are planning to run against Mamdani and to paint Democrats as communists, whatever. Now, that seems to be completely out the window. How do you even do that?
BRIANNA LYMAN, "THE FEDERALIST" REPORTER: I think Republicans should still stick with that strategy.
PHILLIP: Okay.
LYMAN: I have very mixed feelings on today. I think the President, to your point, did what an executive would do. Whether you like Mamdani or not, he's running the largest city in America. You are going to have to some kind of conversation with him. And it's nice that they had a cordial conversation today. I don't discount that.
I also think that Donald Trump is kind of setting the stage here. He's leaving a line of communication open so that when Mamdani actually does take office and starts implementing policies, there can be communication where Donald Trump says, I don't think you should do that or we're going to have problems. That being said, I was disappointed, I think one, in Mamdani when he was asked if he still thinks Donald Trump is a fascist and he was, I'm not going to answer --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Let me --
(CROSSTALK)
LYMAN: Yes, go ahead.
PHILLIP: -- can I just -- let me just play it because honestly you have to listen to it -- LYMAN: It was funny.
PHILLIP: -- to understand, to do it justice. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Are you affirming that you think President Trump is a fascist?
MAMDANI: I've spoken about --
TRUMP: That's okay, you can just say yes.
MAMDANI: Okay. Yes.
TRUMP: It's easier than explaining it. I don't mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I wish you would have explained it. That's the part. Like, you wait, you interrupt him so he can explain it. I know you say you're --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I mean, Trump just completely failed to --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- of that answer.
CHAMPION: But you know what? They're both talented. I know, you say what -- you say with charisma, great politicians, great businessmen. And what we saw was good old-fashioned gaming. They were sitting there, and they understood that they both needed something from one another. They both understand, Trump especially, that this is a rising star. I want to get a little bit of whatever this is that you have on you, because I recognize it in me. And so I'm enjoying it.
But what I think is really interesting is that that's just for now. There could be two or three or four things that will be true. Like today it was nice. It was great. I was surprised. I was like, okay, this, to your point, not on my bingo card. But I was surprised to see how well they got along, but it makes sense because while they're on two different sides of the spectrum, there's a lot that they have in common.
LYMAN: Oh, okay. So I agree. They're both extremely charming. I wasn't surprised actually by this. I didn't think either one of them were going to go in there trying to say, I'm the bigger man, even though we know that obviously the President is just because of his position.
(CROSSTALK)
CHAMPION: I though he was was definitely going to do that. LYMAN: I didn't because Donald Trump is the same kind of man who has made it clear he's willing to meet with anybody. And I think actually today's going to be problematic for Democrats because Mamdani did what Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries are not willing to do and that is to sit down with the President and try to find some kind of common ground here.
CHAMPION: Or be complimentary.
(CROSSTALK)
LYMAN: Or just be cordial.
PHILLIP: I have heard that talking point but I'm not sure I buy it.
LYMAN: I do.
PHILLIP: Because at the end of the day, you know, the biggest weapon facing what Republicans are facing next year, which is going to be a really tough re-election for members in the House and the Senate, the economy being what it is, Trump's policies being as popular as they are. The biggest thing that they had that they could potentially run on is the S-word, socialist, the C-word, communist. I was always skeptical that that argument would work. But now, Trump has taken it off the table.
ADAM MOCKLER, "MEIDAS TOUCH "COMMENTATOR: Yes. You saw Donald Trump essentially undermining the MAGA media ecosystem in real time. For the past few months they've called Zohran Mamdani a jihadist, communist, a threat to America who's incompatible with the governing style of America.
(CROSSTALK)
LYMAN: He is.
MOCKLER: You think he's incompatible with the governing style of America?
LYMAN: His values are --
(CROSSTALK)
LYMAN: Trump is wrong on this case.
(CROSSTALK)
MOCKLER: Do you think Trump is wrong on this case?
[22:35:00]
LYMAN: Zohran Mamdani's principles are fundamentally hostile to the family principles--
MOCKLER: Which ones?
LYMAN: His idea that we should confiscate property -- John Locke. The founders are very clear that property rights --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Has he ever talked about -- he's never said anything about confiscating property.
LYMAN: He said he wants to take condos --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: -- that interviewed him half a dozen times --
(CROSSTALK)
LYMAN: Then you would know that he said that he --
UNKNOWN: There is no -- there is no confiscation --
(CROSSTALK)
MOCKLER: Can I just say --
(CROSSTALK)
MOCKLER: This is a perfect -- this is a perfect example. The MAGA media ecosystem has made Zohran seem like this extreme Jihadist.
(CROSSTALK)
MOCKLER: And listen, some of his ideas outside the --
(CROSSTALK)
JOE BORELLI, FORMER REPUBLICAN LEADER, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL: The legislation -- the council will force property owners before they can sell it on the public market --
(CROSSTALK)
LOUIS: Why didn't Trump confirm about it?
CHAMPION: He said it was his honor.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: But you know what? Trump said that we both agree on increasing the supply of housing and that's going to --
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: I'll tell you why it hasn't taken the socialism issue off the ballot because Zohran Mamdani's own party is facing a challenge. Because not just is Hakeem Jeffries facing a challenge from a socialist, but you have Jerrold Nadler (ph) retiring and socialists running for that seat. You have Hakeem -- you have Dan Goldman facing a socialist challenger. You have Grace Meng (ph) facing a socialist challenge. All these members of the House -- there are probably four or five of them, are facing socialist challenges.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I guess we should know that Mamdani has explicitly come out against a challenge to Hakeem Jeffries.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: And this is why I give him credit, because he has the most to lose. He spent last night basically telling his own DSA members not to support a socialist against an establishment Democrat.
PHILLIP: Yes.
BORELLI: Now, today, he's out there, you know, chumming around with Donald Trump. He has a lot to lose on this and I give him credit for doing the right --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Let me ask you real quick on Elise Stefanik. She had a response to all of this. She says, "We all want New York City to succeed, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. If he walks like a jihadist, if he talks like a jihadist, if he campaigns like a jihadist, if he supports jihadists, he's a jihadist and he is Kathy Hochul's jihadist." If you're Elise Stefanik tonight, how do you feel? Because I'm not sure that --
BORELLI: I don't think -- no matter what, she is not going to take her foot off the gas. I mean, she's going to go after him, you know. She uses the term jihadist, but if you hang out with Hassan Piker, if you hang out with people that deny 9-11 was the responsibility of Islamic terrorism, you hang out with people like that and you're going to get that criticism. That's going to be her issue. That's what she's going to push in the campaign and I don't think she's going to take her foot off the gas one bit.
PHILLIP: Errol, you know, why do you think Mamdani made this pivot? In a way, I mean, it is somewhat -- it's smart because he neutralized Trump in -- especially in the first maybe six months of his term, on some very key issues, law and order, maybe even ICE funding for the city of New York. Why do you think he ended up here?
LOUIS: Well, look. He -- Mamdani wants to succeed. He wants to be a successful mayor before he wants to do anything else. This caricature that people have painted of him as if he's some ideologue who all he's ever wanted to do is implement this ideology, he's been in office for five years.
That is not at all what has happened. We've seen what socialist incumbents have done. If you look at Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, they have not ended the social order. They have not overturned capitalism. Bernie Sanders has been in office for how long? He's given the same speech for a generation.
BORELLI: Because they're a minority within the Democratic conferences. They're still a minority. Zohran didn't pass any legislation. Doesn't mean he didn't propose or push socialist principle legislation.
(CROSSTALK)
LOUIS: The point is -- you are -- attempts to terrify the public over people because they have the socialist word somewhere in their ideology, somewhere on their website, it just doesn't work.
CHAMPION: They're just afraid of him. That's it.
LOUIS: We just put it to a vote in the biggest city. We had record turnout.
CHAMPION: Yes.
BORELLI: And that's the problem.
LOUIS: We put it to a vote. I didn't work.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: It was put to a vote in the biggest city but I bet you Abigail Spanberger couldn't run as a socialist. I bet you Mikie Sherrill couldn't run -- Mikie Sherrill couldn't run as a socialist. So I think --
(CROSSTALK)
MOCKLER: So, the Democratic Party has fully beholden a socialist.
BORELLI: No, I'm saying that the Democratic Party doesn't know who it is as evidenced by the point -- the point that I just pointed out, there's six members of New York being primary by --
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: There's a lot of momentum in New York.
(CROSSTALK)
LOUIS: Today is an illustration of what I think is really going on, which is that people don't fear socialism as much as they fear what will happen if this demon that they've created actually succeeds, actually gets along with the President, actually does -- keeps the streets clean and --
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: I'm afraid of socialism and I want him to succeed.
LOUIS: And runs the schools the way they should be run.
PHILLIP: I -- listen. I continue to say voters do not care about these words, okay? They don't know what they mean, they don't care about them, they want to know what you're going to do for them.
CHAMPION: I want to eat. PHILLIP: Errol Louis, thank you very much for being here.
CHAMPION: I want to eat.
PHILLIP: Next, the two defenses Trump's been using on the economy have just crumbled as one ally is delivering this message.
(BEGIN VIDO CLIP)
LARRY KUDLOW, FNC HOST: I think affordability is greatly overrated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:44:33]
PHILLIP: Tonight, Donald Trump is insisting that your Thanksgiving this year will be cheaper than last year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: As you know, I've been saying to a lot of people, Walmart said that Thanksgiving this year is exactly 25 percent less than last year. So that's good for New York, good for everybody.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: And thanks to President Trump's 'Drill Baby Drill" agenda, the national average price of a gallon of gas on Thanksgiving Day is projected to be at the cheapest price since the COVID pandemic in 2021.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:45:02]
PHILLIP: Let's start with that last point. While it is true that gas has been cheaper this year, that's no longer the case. AAA says the average gallon is now more expensive than at this point last year under Biden. Second point, Walmart's Thanksgiving basket this year is cheaper because it contains less food. A new analysis also finds that overall dinner is 10 percent higher this year. But according to one MAGA ally, forget what you hear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KUDLOW: There are issues on some of these prices although I think affordability is greatly overrated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Just a quick reminder, that wasn't just a talking head on TV. Larry Kudlow was Trump's economic advisor during the first administration. And it's probably a bad sign that people, MAGA aligned, or even in the administration are basically saying, don't worry about it. You know, it's all in your head. CHAMPION: I was going to ask you the context of that, because he just
said overrated. So you're saying that they believe -- I didn't -- I didn't not get the whole full of it. It was just like, okay, it's overrated, we don't need to talk about it now. I said this before on your show when we were talking about SNAP benefits when the government was shut down.
I think that and that's what Trump is experiencing and this administration is experiencing now. You can't convince people that they're not getting enough food. You can't convince people they don't have food for their children. You can't convince people that they don't have enough money to actually pay for gas.
All of those things are real moments that you feel. So, no matter whatever you're trying to sell me and if you're trying to tell me that it's just overrated, American people will not believe that. We just won't do that.
MOCKLER: It's a lot less abstract than some of the other democratic talking points we've had. Like so, when we talk about January 6th or Trump upending the rule of law, or not caring about norms, that's pretty abstract in people's day-to-day lives with the economy affects them every single day. And Trump is hardcore gaslighting about how the economy is doing. Like he says that inflation is -- he said some he'd killed inflation at one point. There is no one --
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: Inflation was higher under President Biden.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: -- was 3.2 in December is 3.0 now. CPI went up 28 percent. Be quiet, I'm talking buddy.
(LAUGHTER)
BORELLI: CPI went up 21 percent. That means that under Joe Biden, every American lost 20 cents on every dollar. We're at the Food Network. We're talking about beef. I know that's been a big issue, right? The meat industry, the meat institute represents 95 percent of meat packers, poultry packers, right? They sent a letter to the Trump administration recently basically saying, here's how you can save the meat industry. Nothing about tariffs. It was all about stupid state and federal regulations.
In August of this year, USDA rolled back USDA regulations on grazing. EPA rolled back regulations on discharge, basically all these rules that came out of the Cow Farts (ph) Equals Climate Change Club, and that's what made the impact.
PHILLIP: But did it make beef cheaper or not?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Because meat, poultry, fish and eggs are up 5.2 percent. (CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: The producers are saying what the problem is --
PHILLIP: Yes, but I'm saying --
BORELLI: -- and Trump is addressing two things. One, I don't know. If I'm in the meat industry and I'm writing a letter to President Trump, I'm not sure I'm going to write a letter that basically says your signature policy is terrible.
BORELLI: Yes, but it was the same complaint under Democrats. They didn't so anything.
PHILLIP: However --
BORELLI: Trump reverted the tariffs, the out fart (ph) climate change stuff.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: The point on the rolling back of regulations, if that were enough to get the prices to come down, we would see the prices coming down. I mean, the Trump administration has the power on the regulatory side, right? And that is a big agenda item. If that was going to be enough, it would have happened. But the tariffs are an issue. They're not the whole story but they are a big part of the story.
BORELLI: The U.S. cattle herd is lower than it has ever been.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I'm not talking about -- but it's not just about that.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: But I'm saying because of regulations --
PHILLIP: There are many other elements to this.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: -- it's not going to just double overnight.
LOUIS: When you walk to the grocery store, bread is higher, beef is higher --
BORELLI: Eggs are lower, coffee is higher. Yes, you could pick and choose anything you want. You could pick and choose anything you want.
(CROSSTALK)
MOCKLER: How much of eggs gone down over the past 12 months? How much of a dozen of eggs gone down?
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: Core inflation is down. Is core inflation up or is core inflation down?
(CROSSTALK)
MOCKLER: Up or down.
BORELLI: Core inflation is down.
PHILLIP: Wait. No, no. Wait, okay.
BORELLI: Core inflation is down.
PHILLIP: Inflation --
BORELLI: Core inflation. I'm saying core inflation.
PHILLIP: Okay.
MOCKLER: Cherry picking --
PHILLIP: -- is at what, 3.2 percent now? That is a --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: But Joe, the trend since Trump came into office is that it has been ticking up, not ticking down. Trends matter. But let's put that aside for a second. Put your mind in the position of just a regular American and let's say you have a job. And at your job, they're making business decisions and they're basically telling you as an employee, we're not so sure how things are looking.
We can't give you that raise. A lot of people worry that their jobs might not survive the uncertainty of this environment. I actually think that there's more to this than just what they're paying at the grocery store.
CHAMPION: Sure.
PHILLIP: I think that people are feeling a sense of dread and anxiety. And that's when -- that's why when they say that Trump's economic policies are hurting them, 46 percent say it's hurting them. That's not just about when they go to the grocery store or the gas pump. That I think is the part that Trump doesn't want to acknowledge. That there's a -- there's a cloud hanging over the economy of uncertainty, and that people actually feel that things are not getting better, they're getting worse.
[22:50:02]
LYMAN: So, I do not disagree that things again do not feel great right now. I don't think anyone at this table is saying that things are, you know, a complete night and day from Joe Biden. Again, to Joe's point, things are trending in the right direction. That doesn't mean that there are not a lot of work to be done. We're 11 months in and it's going to take more than 11 months to undo four years of damage. I know you want to say something, so hold on a second for me.
To the larger point about the doom and gloom, look, there has been a lot of talk networks left-wing networks have talked about a tariff- induced recession and record-high inflation from the tariffs. It never materialized, outlets are coming out saying, hey, "Axios" did one I think two months ago and they're like actually like we didn't have tariff induced recession, like what happened ? So, I do --
PHILLIP: I have to say though, Brianna, we don't actually know. We haven't had jobs -- we didn't have a jobs report from I believe October.
UNKNOWN: We had a great one today.
PHILLIP: We had revisions from the summer that actually revised down the job numbers from the summer months. So, the economic picture is very mixed and some of it is just clouded by the lack of information.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I am not -- hold on a second. I am not suggesting that there is a recession coming. All I'm saying is that they're clearly road bumps that the employment market is experiencing. And also, the impact of tariffs is going to accumulate. The tariff level has, you know, it has skyrocketed just in the last 10 months. That is going to have an impact.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Nobody thinks that's not going to --
(CROSSTALK)
CHAMPION: Your initial point, we can use all these words, like it's just the humanitarian issue that we're talking about. My humanity, what do I feel when I go to the market? What do I feel with my children? No. You can't say that that's not a real thing.
BORELLI: Mamdani wouldn't have won if affordability wasn't an issue? It's quite stipulated.
CHAMPION: So then we can't fight the basic issue. People at home are like, you can say all the hell you want.
BORELLI: My point is Trump is fighting the basic issue by rolling back regulations.
MOCKLER: Can I just point out --
PHILLIP: All right.
MOCKLER: Liberation day tariffs only went into effect on August 7th due to Trump's 90-day delay, so we haven't seen the bulk of the effects. But I've seen the Republicans in the administration and on this panel cherry-pick certain economic data that's incongruent with the way the average American feels. A dozen eggs is down four cents over the past year. That doesn't
outweigh unemployment being up. Unemployment for young Americans my age being up. Unemployment for black Americans is spiking. That's an early indicator of a weakening job market. People are struggling and you can't actually -- yes, you can't just gaslight about this.
PHILLIP: All right, coming up for us, Chef Morgan has night caps for us. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:57:16]
PHILLIP: Chef Morgan Hass, lead director of culinary production at the Food Network is here to tell us all about these plates that we're eating. They're beautiful. Chef Hass, what are we eating?
MORGAN HASS, LEAD DIRECTOR OF CULINARY PRODUCTION AT THE FOOD NETWORK: Thank you. So, these are some fun Thanksgiving sides to think about for the holiday coming up. It's an upside down butternut squash tart with brown butter sage and then a light salad of figs, pomegranate and escarole. It's kind of a great Thanksgiving salad.
PHILLIP: What makes it upside down?
HASS: So, it's sort of made like a tarte de taine. You make a caramel in the pan and then you lay out the butternut squash, and then you put puff pastry over the top of it. It's layered with herbs and then you bake it and then flip it.
PHILLIP: Oh, interesting.
HASS: It's super healthy. It's a side. It's butternut squash.
PHILLIP: It's a vegetable.
LYMAN: It tastes like a pizza. It's amazing.
PHILLIP: All right. The Q.R. code will be up on the screen for this great recipe if you want it. It's so delicious. Try something new for your family this Thanksgiving. 'Tis the season. Thank you, Chef. And now it's time for our news nightcap. Don't go anywhere just yet, though, because "Wicked for Good" is now in theaters. And that had us wondering, what movie or TV show prequel do you want to see? Chef, you're first.
HASS: Oh, I'm first. God. I say "Harry Potter". I know it's the season right now.
PHILLIP: Aren't we going to get a Harry Potter prequel?
HASS: We're going to, it's going to, well not the prequel. I think they're redoing a TV series. I wonder what happens with Harry's parents? What happened with Snape? What happened with --
PHILLIP: Right. HASS: -- everything before they got to Hogwarts.
PHILLIP: Brianna?
LYMAN: I would like to see -- I want to be honest with you. I was torn between choosing a "Shrek" prequel or "Casablanca". I love "Shrek". I would have liked to know what made Shrek so angry as an ogre. But I did pick "Casablanca" just because I wanted to know more about a little bit leading up to the climax of the war. What made her husband go away? Did she ever think she was going to find him? What was their romance like?
PHILLIP: All right. Adam.
MOCKLER: I really enjoy the characters that both Matt Damon and Robin Williams play in "Good Will Hunting". So I'd like to see what they were doing before the sequence of events in that movie.
PHILLIP: All right. Cari.
CHAMPION: "Sex and the City", of course, that's on brand for me. I really want to know why all of these women in some form or fashion were stunted in their growth and their relationships. I want to know about Carrie's parents. I want to know why Samantha behaves the way she does. Did something happen? These are very important issues. I know there were the Carrie Diaries, but I need full details. PHILLIP: All right.
CHAMPION: I'm sure Joe feels the same way. He was going to say that.
BORELLI: I love the "Sex and the City" show. Every episode I have on (inaudible). I still have it on Blu-ray. I want to see the prequel to "Married with Children", the high school years. Like, was Al the Polk High God that he tells us? How did he and Peggy start to fall in love? Think like "Saved by the Bell" with the Bundys, like Steve Darcy and the whole gang.
[23:00:00]
It's going to be great.
CHAMPION: Fair.
PHILLIP: All right, cool.
CHAMPION: What about you?
PHILLIP: I don't know. I don't know. I would take a "Hunger Games" prequel. I would like to know what happened to make the place so dystopian. That would be interesting to me. I mean, but there are many things.
LYMAN: Maybe it was socialism.
PHILLIP: Maybe.
CHAMPION: It's Zohran's fault again? Zohran's fault again? Again?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Everyone, thank you very much. Thanks for watching "NewsNight". You can catch me anytime on your social media and "Table for Five". Don't forget tomorrow morning at 10 a.m. right here on CNN. "Laura Coates Live" is starting right now.
