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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Attacks Deranged Rob Reiner After His Tragic Murder; Conservative After Trump`s Reiner Post Says, Fans Exhausted by Him; Pollster Who Briefed Trump That Base Cracking Says, He`s Not Listening; U.S. Military Strike Three More Boats; Police Pursue New Lead In Brown University Shooting. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired December 15, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, how low can American leadership go? The president of the United States uses Rob Reiner`s tragic murder to attack him politically.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: He was a deranged person, as far as Trump is concerned.
SIDNER: Plus, one conservative says the Reiner response shows why more of Trump`s supporters are leaving him, but a new report suggests he`s not listening.
Also, another potential misstep from FBI Director Kash Patel, as a manhunt starts over for the Brown University shooter.
And --
TRUMP: -- fentanyl as a weapon of mass destruction.
SIDNER: Is the president`s declaration a sign he`s preparing to strike more than just boats?
Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Bakari Sellers, Ana Navarro, Arthur Aidala and Elie Honig.
Americans with different perspectives aren`t talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER (on camera): Good evening to you. I`m Sara Sidner in New York in for Abby Philip.
Let`s get right to what Americans are talking about. Compassion, empathy, the moral high ground, all have fallen victim to Donald Trump`s presidency. But tonight, we`re seeing a new low after the deaths of Hollywood icon Rob Reiner and his wife, producer Michele Singer Reiner. The couple`s son, Nick, is now in police custody booked on suspicion of murder. Nick has spoken publicly about struggling with addiction, going to rehab and experiencing homelessness.
Tonight, as tributes and condolences continue to pour in for the Reiners, Trump used this moment to mock Reiner`s death saying he had Trump derangement syndrome, and when asked about his comments today, the president doubled down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I wasn`t a fan of his at all. He was a deranged person as far as Trump is concerned.
He became like a deranged person, Trump derangement syndrome. So, I was not a fan of Rob Reiner at all, in any way, shape or form.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: It`s not just Democrats, but some conservatives are criticizing Trump`s response. Evangelical Russell Moore called the comments vile and disgusting. Marjorie Taylor Greene called the deaths of family tragedy and said it`s not about politics. And here`s what Senator John Kennedy said Trump should have done instead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): A wise man once said nothing. Why? Because he`s a wise man. I think President Trump should have said nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: All right. We`ve got a great group that are here. Let`s start with you. When it comes to that comment you just heard there, a wise man says nothing, it`s that old adage, if you don`t have anything nice to say, don`t say anything at all, is that what should have happened with President Trump?
ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I was 9, 10, 11 years old where my grandfather of -- whom I`ve named after, Artie Aidala, taught me that lesson. I think I was being critical to about someone or something, and he was like, hey, Artie, you know what, if you don`t have anything nice to say, just don`t say anything at all. And I believe that`s what the president did when the vice president, Dick Cheney, died. I think he didn`t really acknowledge it whatsoever, and I think that would`ve been the wise choice here.
And even if he did, he couldn`t help himself but say something critical, you have to say, look, I never liked Rob Reiner, we never got along. He was so overly critical of me. But what happened to him and his family was so horrific, and so tragic that the nation should pray for them.
SIDNER: Scott, why doesn`t the president rise to the occasion when it comes to these sorts of things? We see kind of over and over again that his responses are often less than humane.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I agree with Arthur. I think he should have said nothing. Look, I`m not surprised that Donald Trump didn`t have anything nice to say about Mr. Reiner. Reiner was one of his most vocal critics and did for, you know, basically a decade, say he should be in prison, called him a fascist, et cetera, et cetera. But the correct answer here, and the advice I would`ve given him is just put it in your pocket. You`re allowed to harbor opinions and feelings about people, but in this particular case, someone was tragically murdered.
[22:05:05]
Look, we just -- as conservatives, we just rolled out of one of the most horrific things that have happened to our movement, which is the murder of Charlie Kirk, and I have been very critical of everybody who celebrated that murder, the thousands and thousands of liberals who`ve celebrated that. They shouldn`t have done that either. And so, you know, in this particular case, putting it in your pocket would`ve been the --
AIDALA: The thing is Rob Reiner did not celebrate Charlie`s murder.
JENNINGS: Yes.
AIDALA: He condemned it very vocally. So, yes, on one hand, he`s raised -- he`s done more than just criticized Donald Trump. He`s raised millions and millions and millions of dollars to make sure Trump didn`t become president. However, when Charlie was executed, I mean, Rob Reiner came out forcefully and said, I don`t care what anyone`s politics is. This should have never happened.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And I would suggest that the office of president of the United States comes with a higher bar and a certain duty. And if he can`t exercise the duty, then just shut up. Keep your mouth shut, and keep Rob Reiner`s name out of your mouth, particularly today.
Look, what happened to that family is really an unspeakable tragedy. It`s so hard for me to wrap my arms around. And there are millions of American families who are dealing with children with mental illness and drug addiction. And as a family, my own family that has suffered from the consequences of drug addiction, I can tell you that the biggest fear of any parent, and they can be very good parents who don`t give up on their child and who love that child, but can`t save the child, no matter how many times you send them to rehab, no matter how many times you send them -- no matter what pills you -- no matter -- you sometimes you just can`t reach a kid. And the biggest terror of one of those parents is that that child will hurt themselves or hurt somebody else, much less somebody in the family.
So, what is happening to this American family is tragic. And for Donald Trump to use the occasion, not to rise to the occasion, but to lower himself to a level that I can`t even imagine and attack Rob Reiner and say his death was caused by his criticism of Trump is disgusting and condemnable and unacceptable. And I am glad that both of you are saying that it was the wrong thing to do, because we cannot normalize this level of cruelty and stupidity by Donald Trump.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But it is normalized. And I think that --
NAVARRO: No, it`s not, Bakari.
SELLERS: Maybe that is my youthful naivete or maybe that is my pessimism that Donald Trump has bestowed upon this country, but he`s never risen to the level of the office when we have this moment. He`s never been there when the country needed him to bridge a gap or divide.
I recall during the Mother Emanuel shooting when Barack Obama sang Amazing Grace, how the country was just for -- even just the pendency of that song was able to just talk about that issue of race and come together in a tone and tenor that hadn`t been done before. I remember George W. Bush after 9/11, I mean, those type of tragic events, he was there. I mean, I you remember the ball game, those type of things. Donald Trump doesn`t have that capability.
AIDALA: Well, he tried. He tried it at the Charlie Kirk Memorial when he hugged his wife and he made some --
SELLERS: Respectfully, though, respectfully, and I --
AIDALA: He tried. He --
(CROSSTALKS)
NAVARRO: Do you remember the Charlie Kirk Memorial say that he wasn`t -- he said he disagreed with forgiving your enemies?
SELLERS: I will tell you this. The bar for Donald Trump is hell, right? That`s where our expectations are for him. And for somebody to simply say that the president of the United States, when somebody dies in the fashion that they did, should just be quiet, we need to all look at ourselves and say, that is the standard that we hold for the president of the United States, that this man that is 80 years old is incapable of actually having empathy, this man who`s 80 years old is incapable of being an example for our children, regardless of Democrat or Republican?
And the bigger condemnation I have is for those individuals who call them self evangelical Christians who surround the president of the United States but then look at this type of nonsense and turn a blind eye to it. He has a prayer counsel. They lay hands on him. With what, gloves, mittens? I mean, that ain`t getting through. I mean, who are they praying to?
And so I just -- I have a great deal of disdain for -- and listen, there are people who will say, I love Donald Trump`s policies. I hate the man that he is. That is just a very, very weird paradigm that I`m not sure I could find myself in.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I have two issues with this statement today, right? Certainly, silence would`ve been vastly preferable to this. But, number one, it`s just the sheer and utter soullessness of this statement. How long was it between the actual murder and the statement? Seven hours, six hours? I mean, not even a moment of breath and grace.
But, number two, as Ana referred to, the statement spreads misinformation.
[22:10:01]
It suggests that the cause of the murder was something about politics or Rob Reiner`s view of Donald Trump. That is dangerous. We see how quickly the tiniest little flicker can cause conspiracy theories and inaccurate information to take off. It`s irresponsible of him to do that.
And I`m actually surprised it could have been an opportunity for Donald Trump to say, look what narcotics do to families. This is one of his number one issues. It`s why he`s doing what he`s doing with Venezuelan boats, right? And he could have said, you see, you see what these drugs do to these families? It`s horrible. My prayers are with them, yes.
AIDALA: Definitely a missed opportunity on the level you -- and I didn`t think about your level, but on the level of what Ana is saying. You know, he could have risen to the occasion and just said, putting all the politics aside, this was an absolute American tragedy. I have sons. You know, it`s unimaginable and let`s all say a prayer. I hug each other or hold each other`s hands at the prayer council.
NAVARRO: And think of this family today. And think about a daughter who walked into that house and found her parents --
SIDNER: And another son as well --
JENNINGS: I just saw -- given what we just lived through with Charlie, I mean, every conservative that I know is still very much processing this and --
SIDNER: I`m going to stop you there because I want to play some of the reaction to when Charlie Kirk was killed. Here`s sort of just a smattering of what was said from -- mostly from Republicans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Over the last 11 days, we have heard stories of commentators, influencers, and others in our society who greeted his assassination with sick approval, excuses or even jubilation.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The man wasn`t even buried yet, and Democrat members of Congress were denigrating his memory.
Many Democrats in elective office have now been totally captured by a radical fringe of the far left base who want to dehumanize every person they disagree with. We must continue to call this wickedness out.
TRUMP: Some of the very same people who spent the last eight years trying to sit in moral judgment of anyone who disagreed with them about politics suddenly started cheering for a murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: The hypocrisy that you hear there, right, you hear them talking about the left doing this, and then the statement, how do you square those two things?
JENNINGS: I don`t. I disagree with the statement. I wish he hadn`t made it. And as I mentioned, you know what happened after Charlie died, lots of people were quick to celebrate the death, call him racist, call him Nazi, attribute statements to him that he never made, et cetera, et cetera. And those of us on the right who knew Charlie and loved Charlie, you know, were quick to call that out and say, this is misinformation. This is a heinous way to treat someone who left behind a grieving widow and little children. So, I don`t square it. Because --
SIDNER: But I do want to just --
JENNINGS: You know, we`re still processing that. And if we want to expect other people to live up to a standard that they didn`t live up to after Charlie, we should --
NAVARRO: But, Scott, this is more than just other people, right? And, listen, I agree with you. Anybody who celebrated after Trump got shot, shame on them. Anybody who celebrated after Charlie Kirk got murdered, shame on them. But I refuse to hold some trolls on the internet or some, you know, influencers or fringe people, whomever they are, whomever they are.
JENNINGS: Well, it was elected officials, members of Congress, very important people.
NAVARRO: Okay. I don`t hold -- I will not hold them to the same bar that I hold the president of the United States. I think, you know, he`s got the biggest bully pulpit. And as anybody who`s ever been attacked by Donald Trump knows, once he attacks, it gives permission to so many others that hang on his every word to do the same thing.
And it hurts my heart to think about Romy Reiner and Jake Reiner, the siblings, the survive -- the siblings who, you know, who are the victims also of this crime, and what`s going to befall them from social media because of what Trump just did. It`s just irresponsible and horrible.
SELLERS: The fascinating part about this conversation though is that if Trump is one thing, he is consistent. And, you know, I`ve always told people that Trump has -- you know, I`ve always referred to Trump as one of the most honest brokers we have in politics. He`s -- he told us exactly what he was going to do when he was running for president. He`s executing on those plans.
But even when he came down the escalator in 2025, I mean, we had mean -- excuse me, 2015, I`m going to time warp, 2015, I mean, the essence of one -- I think the quote is, character is who you are when no one`s watching, right. The essence of Donald Trump`s character has never been in question. People who worked with him, people who contracted with him, people who rented from him, people who knew him from back in New York, people who had to -- he denigrated Ted Cruz`s wife. He called her ugly, right? Like he created nicknames for people on the stage and he was running for president of the United States, that what we have done in this country, Democrats, Republicans, and even more importantly, the mainstream media, I hope people hear that, even more importantly, the mainstream media is we have created a bottomless pit of character for the people that we elect to high office in this country.
[22:15:21]
SIDNER: All right. I`m going to put a pause in that with that last thought because many conservatives are saying behavior like this is starting to have a real effect on Trump`s base. And one pollster who briefed him says he`s not listening.
Plus, more on our breaking news, an urgent manhunt for the Brown University shooter after Kash Patel essentially took a victory lap prematurely.
Those stories and more ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:]
SIDNER: Some conservatives are warning President Trump`s words and actions are starting to cause cracks among Republicans and even his diehard MAGA base. Less than 24 hours after Rob Reiner and his wife were found murdered, instead of heartfelt condolences, Trump attacked the film legend online. Radio host Erick Erickson wrote, this is the sort of stuff that exhausts people who like the man. And former Congressman Adam Kinzinger said, after Trump`s post, to still support him is nothing short of insane.
All right, I`m looking at you. What do you think about?
JENNINGS: Well, A, I don`t take any political advice from Adam Kinzinger, and I wouldn`t advise anybody to do that. B, look, I`ve been hearing for ten years that Trump`s going to lose his base over this or that or the other. And for millions upon millions of Republicans who support what he`s doing, who have lived for the last ten years, they have learned to take Donald Trump for who he is all-in all the time. And they are very appreciative of what he`s doing for the country. They like what he`s done on taxes. They like what he is doing on immigration. They like that he lives up to his campaign promises.
But we`re living through another moment here where a bunch of people are going to come out and make predictions about Trump and the base and this and that, and the reality is it`s not true. There are going to be a lot of people who don`t like up this statement, and then they`re going to assess the state of American politics and assess the alternative and say, I knew what I was signing up for when I voted for him three times, and I`m going to ride it out. NAVARRO: I actually agree with Scott. I think the Republican base jumped the shark in 2016 when so many Christians, so many evangelicals, so many Catholics, so many people who said they didn`t like Trump and heard him boast about sexual assault on video and on tape still went out and voted for him. So, I think they -- Trump has gotten away with and gets away with it. He`s himself said he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and they`d still support him. I think he`s gotten away with setting a new standard, not only he gets measured by.
But I think that what`s eroding --
SIDNER: But his approval ratings are spiraling.
NAVARRO: But I don`t think it`s because -- I don`t think it`s because of -- it`s not because of lack of empathy or humanity. I think it`s because of --
SIDNER: It`s about the economy.
NAVARRO: -- the tariffs. I think it`s because they -- you know, they look at what`s happening in Venezuela and wonder how that`s America first. I think it`s Latinos. He`s lost double digits with Latinos because I think they think he`s gone too far on the deportation. They may like what he`s done on the border, but they think he`s gone too far on deportations and that it`s cruel and good people are getting dragged through the streets by masked men. So, you know, I think it`s a lot of things. I don`t think it`s about his lack of Trump empathy over Rob Reiner.
SELLERS: So, there`s a couple of things about Trump`s base. One, he ain`t going to lose it. Two, it`s non-transferrable, okay? So, that`s the thing that Republicans are having a hard time figuring out. Donald Trump forever, I say, broke, but I will just, you know, so we`re not like content farming here, he reshaped the Republican Party. This Republican Party since 2015 is being remade in Donald Trump`s image.
Now, what that party can`t run on are things like family values. I mean, he has five kids, about three baby mamas, right? What that Republican Party can`t run on are things like evangelical, we are GOP, God`s only party, because you have a president right now who doesn`t have any empathy, who doesn`t display those things, who doesn`t have that Christ-like walk.
So, if you take those things together, it is a new type of politics. It`s a show --
JENNINGS: Bakari, let me ask you a question. What two-term president was transferable? Who did Barack Obama`s popularity transfer to? Nobody. And, in fact, the Democratic Party base across the country was decimated. Reagan transferred to Bush and he was a one-term president.
SELLERS: That`s not true.
JENNINGS: Who did it transfer to?
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: Who Clinton transfer to? Nobody.
SELLERS: You do realize Hillary Clinton got more votes than Donald Trump, right? So, to say that it was decimated --
JENNINGS: Well, she looked great in the White House, didn`t she?
(CROSSTALKS)
SELLERS: I mean, they`re saying it was decimated is a gross overstatement and flatly --
JENNINGS: Thousands upon thousands of Democrats in lower elected office across the country lost during -- he decimated the Democratic Party.
SELLERS: Who?
JENNINGS: Obama. There was no transfer from him.
SELLERS: Oh, that has a totally -- that`s a different argument.
HONIG: There are some specific signs up. By the way, I think it`s healthy to have a president where some members of his party on some issues can question him, whether you`re Democrat or Republican, right? It`s never good to have absolute fealty.
But let me give you some specifics that show that he is not going to lose the base. You`re right. You`re right about that. But just for example, there was a poll the other day by Marquette University that showed that 48 percent of Republicans and 47 percent of independents don`t like his prosecutions at DOJ aimed at his political enemies. That`s -- again, almost half of Republicans don`t like that. The boat strikes, right, you have leaders of Congress, Republican leaders saying, we want hearings, we want answers.
JENNINGS: They support the boat strike.
HONIG: That`s fair. But they want it -- but they want answers.
JENNINGS: They support the boat strikes, come on.
HONIG: Okay, but they want answers.
[22:25:00]
That`s better. That`s some accountability. That`s some specific.
The Epstein files, we had a complete turnaround. Everyone voted for disclosure. Indiana, the state of Indiana, just refused to decline to gerrymander mid-district.
So, I`m not saying he`s falling apart. I`m under no illusion about the strength of Donald Trump, but there are signs and there are signs that this not going absolutely -- SELLERS: I mean, that was brilliant. I mean, that was good research and depth, but you don`t even have to go that far. You can go to elections that we just recently had. I mean, Republicans got mollywopped. Republicans lost the city of Miami --
NAVARRO: By 20 points.
SELLERS: -- by 20 points. I mean, you`re hemorrhaging Hispanic voters. I mean, you -- I mean, so, look --
AIDALA: Let me ask this question. Does Trump care?
SELLERS: No. And that`s the biggest part.
AIDALA: In other words, he`s not running for reelection. I think he cares.
SELLERS: That is the most brilliant point --
AIDALA: No, he cares more about his legacy. He wants to be known 100 years from now the way Teddy Roosevelt --
NAVARRO: If he loses the House and/or Senate, there`s going to be what he hasn`t had so far, which is oversight.
AIDALA: Didn`t Clinton lose it? I mean --
NAVARRO: Yes. But the kind of things he`s doing -- the kind of things he`s doing in this second term, very quickly without any oversight, it would change dramatically if all of a sudden the control of the House, of Congress changed.
AIDALA: I agree with you and I think that`s why he`s doing it.
NAVARRO: And I`ll tell you another reason why I think his numbers are suffering. Today, December 15th, is the last day of the enrollment period for the health exchange. And there`s a lot of Americans, Republicans, Democrats and everything in between --
AIDALA: Because he knows you`re right, that if he loses --
NAVARRO: -- that don`t know what they`re going to do that, that are going to choose to go naked without health insurance, and that`s going to cause people getting sicker and some people dying.
AIDALA: He`s running for two years to do as much as he can in these two years. The Wall Street Journal had a big piece today about his executive power, how he`s like pushing the Supreme Court out of the way, pushing the Congress out of the way, and he`s just running right up the middle. It`s called the imperial presidency, and he`s going for it, because I think you`re right. I think once he -- if he loses the midterms, that everything`s going to change. But he`s running the country for his legacy, so that a hundred years from now, he`s on that list of greatest presidents of the United States.
SELLERS: And I just have a -- I just -- NAVARRO: Or worst president of the United States.
SELLERS: I think history is unique. Because the way that history looks at individuals, it usually takes their greatest character attributes and shines a light on them, right? People are usually looked more fondly. You know, whether or not it`s a rapper, you didn`t even have to be that good of a rapper. But if you died a little while ago, they actually look at you a little different. I`m not about to name names because I`m in New York. And so people look at you a little bit differently about what type of artist you were, right? If you were a politician, people look at you a little bit differently.
And we all know that Donald Trump has the greatest envy of one person, which is Barack Obama. He envies Barack Obama.
AIDALA: I don`t know.
SELLERS: Well, that`s fine. He envies Barack Obama, whether or not it`s Nobel Peace Prizes, whether or not it`s the swag, whether or not it`s the way that he talked, whether or not it`s his adoration, whether or not it`s his Gallup approval rating today, all those things.
But push that aside. He wants to be remembered in history as something that he was not. The problem that he has is that when you have missteps like this, although it may not mean anything today, it may not mean anything with this electorate, I do think history`s going to frown upon somebody who doesn`t have --
AIDALA: But you just said he changed the Republican Party.
SELLERS: He did.
AIDALA: You said that. So --
SELLERS: I didn`t say it`s for better.
AIDALA: Well, but maybe he changed it for the next 50 years.
SELELRS: He did.
AIDALA: And, okay, he will be remembered for that.
SELLERS: And that is a sad --
AIDALA: The way Lawrence Taylor is remembered for changing the way football was played. But Lawrence Taylor also did crack in the locker room while he played.
AIDALA: So, what? He`s still the great -- NFL just rated him the greatest defensive player of all time, period, amen, end of story, 30 years in.
SELLERS: I hear you. But it`s always going to be the attribute -- the asterisk. Barry Bonds is the greatest of all time.
(CROSSTALKS)
NAVARRO: If you think Donald Trump is going to get greater as one of the greatest presidents of all time, I`m going to begin to wonder if you`re smoking crack.
AIDALA: Tip O`Neill never thought Ronald Reagan would be rated one of the greatest presidents of all time, and they got along and they did wonderful things together.
JENNINGS: Love it or hate it, he is the most consequential political force in the modern era. He is the strongest party boss either party has ever seen. He got more votes each time he appeared on the ballot. He has people that will only vote for him.
Now, that`s something Obama had as well. He had people that would only vote for him. That puts you in a different realm. I mean, when you`re that kind of -- and two-term presidents often have this. He is -- but you cannot deny he is the most consequential political force of the modern era of either party.
SELLERS: I don`t want to deny that because -- but I do think consequential also has a negative connotation.
SIDNER: It can.
SELLERS: And I think that when people --
JENNINGS: Every politician has detractors and supporters.
SELLERS: No. I think that -- they`re not detractors and supporters. There`s impact on history, like Andrew Jackson. I mean, what are we talking about? I mean, like trail of tears. I mean, where are we going with this discussion about remembering who people were?
And so I just think that Donald Trump will be remembered as somebody who was extremely consequential for reshaping the Republican Party, no doubt about it. But I do think that his moral and ethical lapses, whether or not it`s before office or in office, will not go unnoticed. And I think he --
AIDALA: I agree.
NAVARRO: Bakari, he`s reshaped far more than the Republican Party. He has gotten law firms to capitulate, media to capitulate, universities to capitulate.
[22:30:04]
SELLERS: You`re right. I was a little too narrow in my scope.
NAVARRO: Yes, it`s --
JENNINGS: Has there ever been a president with moral and ethical failings before Donald Trump?
SELLERS: Oh, there hasn`t been one with this -- I mean, this is a gumbo --
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: This is a gumbo of moral and ethical failures.
(CROSSTALK)
AIDALA: It`s got to do with the transparency. We knew what the Kennedy brothers were doing.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: No president until Trump ever had a moral or ethical failing.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: No, he`s got -- he`s got the gold medal that he`s told much once of ethical breaches.
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: All right, we`re going to leave it there. Breaking news.
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: We`re going to move on to the breaking news tonight. The U.S. military has struck three more boats in the Pacific as the President declares fentanyl as a weapon of mass destruction. Does this have major legal significance? That story is ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:35:42]
SIDNER: All right. Tonight, the U.S. Southern Command announcing three more boat strikes against alleged Narco traffickers in the Eastern Pacific. Eight people were killed in these strikes, which took place in international waters. Earlier today, President Trump made an unprecedented declaration. He`s taking what he calls a war on drugs and drug traffickers to the next level.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: With this historic executive order I will sign today, we`re formally classifying fentanyl as a weapon of mass destruction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: According to the CDC, there were more than 80,000 overdose deaths in 2024 alone, and synthetic opioids, primarily fentanyl, continue to play a role in the majority of those deaths. All right, Elie, to you. Does this executive order give the President more power to do more than he`s already doing that Congress has not actually approved these boat strikes? HONIG: No. It is completely meaningless. It`s symbolic. Federal law describes what a weapon of mass destruction is, generally has to be an incendiary device, something that blows up, something that shoots, something that, you know, disseminates poison, that kind of thing.
If you commit a crime involving a weapon of mass destruction, there`s very serious penalties involved. Could be life in prison, could be death if someone dies. But the President saying drugs or fentanyl are now weapons of mass destruction have -- has zero -- zero legal impact. It`s up to judges. It`s up to the parties on a case-by-case basis. It`s an interesting argument. It doesn`t meet the definition. But it`s like if the President declared that a slingshot is a firearm, it doesn`t make it a firearm for legal purposes.
AIDALA: It would have to be -- Congress would have to change the statute.
HONIG: Yes.
AIDALA: A judge couldn`t just say fentanyl is a weapon, because you said there`s a --
HONIG: Well, if they found that you somehow could shoehorn it into the definition.
SELLER: That is not why he`s doing this though. I mean, the reason he`s doing this is because he wants to heighten the level of concern over fentanyl and drugs being imported into the United States of America, thereby building public pressure to allow him or give him the credence to go out and do these strikes. I mean, this is -- this is not a legal supposition. This isn`t a legal question. I mean, he`s not trying to ask a legal question.
What he`s trying to do is say, look, Fentanyl is a weapon of mass destruction. And you know what people think about when they hear about weapons of mass destruction? They think about terrorism. They think about the fact that people are going to die at very high rates, which fentanyl does do.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: But he`s been trying to convince the American people that fentanyl comes from Venezuela.
SELLERS: It does not.
NAVARRO: Which it does not. It comes mostly from Mexico with the ingredients coming from China.
SELLERS: China.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: At least these both strikes are in the right ocean because every other boat strike has been in the Atlantic off the coast of Venezuela. And that is not a route that drug dealers use to bring drugs into the United States, the Pacific coast. And we don`t know if it was off the coast of Mexico, off the coast of Central America. Venezuela does not have a coast on the Pacific Ocean. So, at least now he`s striking the right -- the right ocean.
I think part of this is to distract -- to distract from the fact that I think that Rob Reiner, no, you might laugh, but I think he`s getting criticism from Republicans, in a way. I always think that part of what Trump does is to distract. He does all sorts of things.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: We have been striking boats for months.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: He is the master of distraction.
JENNINGS: Did he know Rob Reiner was going to get murdered in September?
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Because he`s trying -- no, because he`s trying -- the reason he`s been shooting boats for months is because he`s trying to convince the American people to justify --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: He said it was a distraction.
NAVARRO: Yes, to justify regime change in Venezuela. I, for one, am in favor of regime change in Venezuela. I wish it wasn`t -- I wish the U.S. wasn`t going alone. I wish we had an international coalition putting pressure on Maduro, who is a bad guy, destabilizing all of the Western hemisphere, and he is anti-American. He`s a horrible human being, oppressing the people of Venezuela. But yes, these strikes off the coast of Venezuela, nothing to do with drug importation into the United States. The --
JENNINGS: I disagree. Those drugs do go all over the hemisphere. They also go to Europe.
NAVARRO: They go to Europe.
JENNINGS: They go all over the world.
NAVARRO: They go to Europe. They`re not coming to the United States.
JENNINGS: And there`s a larger issue here, which is that Trump has long promised -- he did it during his first term, he did it during his campaign, a more muscular response from the federal government to the scourge of drugs in our own hemisphere.
[22:40:04]
The national security strategy police our own hemisphere. You and I are in agreement. Maduro was a thug.
NAVARRO: He is.
JENNINGS: He is a crime lord. He is a terrible person, and he does need to go. It`s in our own backyard. If we do not police it, who will, not to mention the fact that you made the case, fentanyl does cause deaths, but there are other drugs that cause massive harm to thousands of American families. If we are not going to clean up the world hemisphere, who will?
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: But wait, Scott, how do you reconcile what you just said with him pardoning the former President of Honduras who helped bring an unfathomable 400,000 tons -- 400 tons of cocaine --
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: I was like, 400 --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: -- into the United States. How do you reconcile that?
JENNINGS: I know, other than he`s not the current President, I don`t.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: All I know is --
NAVARRO: He was serving 45 years in federal prison.
JENNINGS: All I know -- all I know is that you have boats in our hemisphere with drugs and precursors of drugs on the boats --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: -- and the deterrents -- and the deterrents (ph) --
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: That`s where Scott is not right.
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: Scott`s not -- so, this is the problem that people should have with this, is that you`re saying that these boats that were bombing have drugs on them, they have bad people on them, because people are bringing this drug in. And the thing about this is, Kristi Noem, Kash Patel, Secretary Hegseth, no one can answer the question about who was on these boats.
No one can answer the question about if drugs were on these boats. No one can answer the question about what type of drugs were on these boats. And what we`re saying right now is, we think we`re blowing up boats with drugs on them and drug dealers on them, but the weird part about it is when you`re pressed on that, you can`t answer that question affirmatively. You just assume.
JENNINGS: The government has said repeatedly, we have intelligence assets, we have military assets, we identify the boats with drugs. These are Narco terrorists who are moving the drugs. You look at the footage, that is not minnows in there. I`m here to tell you. They have intelligence assets telling them. And the deterrence factor of this is enormous.
(CROSSTALK)
HONIG: Yes, I was in charge of a large prosecutor`s office when fentanyl hit us in 2015-16. Came out of nowhere. I hadn`t heard the term in 2014 or so, and it blew up. It was so bad, we didn`t know what to do. Cops were overdosing from touching it through the skin, right? And we had to adapt on the fly. And it is a killer, a lethal killer like we`ve never seen. And I approve of and applaud the administration for being ultra aggressive in going after it. But that doesn`t mean you get to blow up everything you want, anywhere you want. You can blow your way up out of almost any problem.
NAVARRO: Where is fentanyl coming from?
HONIG: I mean, it comes from China.
SELLERS: China mostly.
(CROSSTALK)
HONIG: It comes out of Mexico.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: You all remember when we did our trade deal with China?
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Does it come from Venezuela?
JENNINGS: Part of the agreement was that the Chinese government agreed to crack down on the precursor chemicals that were coming here.
UNKNOWN: Yes, very good.
JENNINGS: So, it`s not just military action. There`s also diplomatic going -- work with China. He`s also been doing diplomatic work with the Mexican government and they have, by the way, helped us reduce --
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: How much weight has -- have we stopped from coming in from Venezuela of drugs right now? How much weight have we blown up? Or how many drug dealers have we --
(CROSSTALK)
AIDALA: But Scott`s -- (CROSSTALK)
AIDALA: Scott`s argument, which is I think a sound one, is it`s a pretty tremendous deterrent factor for these guys watching these things.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: But you`re arguing they`re innocent.
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: We don`t know. Right.
SELLERS: That`s my point. You don`t know either, Scott.
SIDNER: And this speaks to -- legally.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: We don`t get to blow up terrorists who are disseminating at an industrial grade level chemical weapons? Chemical weapons?
SELLERS: But terrorism --
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: -- weapons.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Fentanyl and drugs, these are chemical weapons.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: They`re not coming on those boats, Scott.
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: I would be remiss if I didn`t say I wish -- I wish you all cared in the `80s and `90s as much about crack. Anyway, let me just throw that out.
(CROSSTALK)
AIDALA: I mean, fentanyl is just -- you heard --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: They`re not coming through boats. They`re not coming on boats from Venezuela. They`re just not.
AIDALA: I agree with you.
NAVARRO: So, let`s not conflate the issues. Let`s not misinform.
(CROSSTALK)
AIDALA: I agree. They`re actually making most of it in Colombia, and then it comes to Mexico, and then it comes to --
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: Okay, so as we`re talking about these things coming into the country and the administration being very aggressive trying to knock out drugs from wherever they`re coming from, whether it`s stopping things from coming over the border in Mexico or whether it`s bombing boats in the -- whether it`s the Pacific or the Caribbean.
There`s another issue here that if you`re going to attack this on a sort of war on drugs sort of issue, what about the demand? Because that part of it has not been talked about much by the administration. The demand is here. Why would it be coming into the country? What are they doing on that part? Shouldn`t they be addressing that as well?
AIDALA: Well, they use it -- a lot of it is used as a cutting agent. So you`ve been thinking you`re buying pure cocaine and it`s getting cut with fentanyl because the fentanyl is more available.
SIDNER: Right, but it still demands.
(CROSSTALK)
AIDALA: Yes, yes, well, it goes back to saying why aren`t we going after the crack stuff, but we did have --
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: I shouldn`t say stepdome (ph) on national TV, but to explain what stepdome (ph), I mean --
(CROSSTALK)
AIDALA: No, but you know, there was something in the `80s, just say no. I mean, there was a huge, huge push against drug back then, but now, yes, there is -- there is this demand for fentanyl.
[22:45:01]
I think it has to do with the -- and I`ll refer to Elie because he was a lead prosecutor on this stuff. I think it`s got to do with a cost to the wholesaler. So he could -- raw cocaine costs more than the fentanyl. So they mix it up together and they`re saving money by --
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: But it also gets you higher.
UNKNOWN: It`s a different --
SELLERS: So, instead of cutting it -- instead of cutting it with baby laxatives, which is what they did, which is people in New York clubs are pooping everywhere. (CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Because there`s demand for something doesn`t mean we should throw up our hands and say, well, there`s demand for it. Sorry.
SIDNER: No, no, I`m saying addressing it. Like, we`re talking about, right.
HONIG: The demand for fentanyl, the reason so many people get hooked on fentanyl is because of what we call pill mills, right? Certain doctors, I`ve made cases against were known, with lines around the corner, people would get hooked because they had surgery, they had an athletic injury, whatever. It`s so overpowering, right?
The opioid industry has been great reporting and journalism on that. Opioid industry has a lot to answer for. We collectively as a government, Democrats and Republicans alike, have done a good job of cracking down on that, regulating that. These doctors are more carefully regulated. So, there are things that can and have been done on the demand side as well.
SELLERS: But also, I mean, let`s not. The war on drugs failed. I mean, everybody recognizes that, right? I don`t think anybody wants to sit here and say, Nancy Reagan and Ronald Reagan were A-OK and right about this. The war on drugs failed.
AIDALA: We tried. We tried.
SELLERS: But we`re 45 years behind the ball right now. That`s my biggest point.
AIDALA: Well, it`s a different drug. Crack is basically not --
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: But crack already destroyed -- it destroyed generations of families, so --
JENNINGS: On the cocaine issue, isn`t it true that a lot of the fentanyl winds up in the cocaine? I mean --
UNKNOWN: Well, that`s what it --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: So the cocaine boats, is that`s what they`re coming in from Venezuela, isn`t it part of the dilemma?
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: The Venezuelan boats are not coming to the United States.
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: No, you get it here --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: They`re to Canada and Tobago from there to --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Puerto Rico is an American commonwealth.
JENNINGS: I know. So it goes there, too. Do we not have a responsibility?
NAVARRO: They -- if you are going to hit the boats bringing, you know, the route, then you go through the one going through Central America, like Honduras, like the one that the President, he just pardoned, allowed to go through his country and then come into the United States.
And if you`re going to fight drugs and make this such a big issue, which I agree with and I hope he does, you then need to take the opportunity of a tragedy like the Reiner family to talk about that one in three American adults says their family has been impacted by drug addiction instead of making it about the stupid stuff he makes it about.
SIDNER: All right, just ahead. The table will share their favorite moments from Rob Reiner`s legendary career. That`s (inaudible).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:52:14]
SIDNER: We`re back and it`s time for the "NewsNight" cap. We want to remember Rob Reiner with your favorite moment from his career. Scott, we`re going to begin with you. This is a real tragedy for this this family and for all of his Hollywood friends and family. What`s your favorite movie that Rob Reiner directed, or was in -- he was in?
JENNINGS: Well, he had some great ones. "Princess Bride", of course.
SIDNER: I knew you were going to say "Princess Bride."
JENNINGS: -- who lives on in our culture. I think that the best movies are the ones that live on in our culture through the writing, and of course," My name is an Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." You still hear people say that today. And so, when I`m looking for the endurance of something that was impactful, I think about are we still saying it today? And we`re still saying that today.
SIDNER: All right. It`s up to you, Bakari.
SELLRS: Mine need not be played out loud because we would get a fine.
SIDNER: Oh.
SELLERS: "The Wolf of Wall Street". The scene where he and Leo are going through the American Express expense reports and they`re just having this back and forth. But in this one particular scene, I have not seen acting of this quality in one room at one time. It was just fascinating. And this -- this scene, every time you watch it, mean, Leo is in his bag, but Rob does a great job, too, of how they just feed off each other. I wish I could spend $430,000 a month on my credit card.
SIDNER: Oh, Lord. All right, Elie, it`s up to you.
HONIG: "Stand By Me". I mean, the farewell scene between Will Wheaton and River Phoenix, right? So River Phoenix`s character says, "I`m never going to get out of this town, man, am I?" And Will Wheaton says, "You can do anything you want." And then River Phoenix says, "Yeah, sure."
What did say? "Give me some skin." Come on. And then he goes, "I`ll see you." "Not if I see you first." And then the part that`s really crushing is that River Phoenix then disappears, right? And seven years later, he died in real life. So man, that one holds. Even your kids will like that `80s movie.
SIDNER: It`s tearjerker. And Benny King with the song was just unbelievable. Ana.
NAVARRO: I hate to break it to the four men around the table and the ones that -- working here today. But I don`t know, a single woman who hasn`t faked an orgasm once? And nobody has done it better on TV and given an instruction manual on how to go about it than Meg Ryan on "When Harry Met Sally." And it`s -- I think it`s, you know, and then that he had his mom, Rob Reiner`s mom.
(CROSSTALK)
AIDALA: That`s her right there.
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: -- she`s looking at the camera.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: -- and is the one who delivered that memorable line.
SIDNER: The best line.
NAVARRO: "I`ll have what she`s having."
(LAUGHTER)
SIDNER: It`s the best line. All right.
AIDALA: From a movie point of view, you know, you talk about lines that live on forever. "You can`t handle the truth."
UNKNOWN: Yes.
AIDALA: "A Few Good Men". I mean, I say that all the time. But let`s face it, all in the family. You know, you look on any list of the top five television shows of all time and it`s on that list. And I mean, as much as all the comedy was there, for me, that scene that they`re showing right now, and I got emotional tonight on my radio show talking about it.
[22:55:06]
You know, they`re leaving to go to the West Coast and he`s basically saying Archie, thank you. You`re like a father to me. Thank you for everything. And he said, "I`m going to miss you." And then he says, I`m going to -- I love you. And I know Carol O`Connor`s character, Archie, he can`t handle it. And watching it tonight, knowing that Meathead just left us, it really affected me.
This show`s a real bond between my father and I. And so he was the first person I called last night. But the acting there between the two of them, two guys who didn`t get along and here they are getting along. If you look at the world we`re living right now, we could use a lot of that right now.
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: He left us with humanity. He left us with humanity and we`ll leave it on that note. Thank you for being with us. We`ll be back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:00:04]
SIDNER: Breaking news tonight in the manhunt for the Brown University shooter. Police are pursuing a new lead based on these photos that you`re seeing right now and videos just hours before the shooting. This comes after a previous person of interest was released from police custody.
The FBI has announced a $50,000 reward for information leading to an arrest. If you have any information, you can call the number that you see on your screen. Thank you so much for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
