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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump's Chief Of Staff Makes Stunning Remarks On Staff, Policies; Wiles Undercuts Trump's Public Message On Boat Strikes; Hegseth Says Pentagon Won't Release Full Boat Strike Video; Unemployment Hits Four-Year High Last Month; Vice President Vance Acknowledges Affordability Crisis. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired December 16, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, confessions from the chief, a stunning interview from Donald Trump's gatekeeper. She says she's surrounded by a right wing zealot, a conspiracy theorist, and a president with the personality of an alcoholic. Plus, how Susie Wiles' admissions, from revenge to rockets, are rattling the White House.
Also as unemployment hits a four-year high, J.D. Vance admits what Trump won't, there's an affordability crisis. But he blames Joe Biden and defends an unpopular economy.
REPORTER: What grade would you give the economy today?
J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: A-plus, plus, plus.
SIDNER: Also your faces more criticism from backtracking during another manhunt, Kash Patel sits down for a chummy chat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are so excited to be joined by Kash, and his beautiful girlfriend, Alexis.
Where's her ring?
SIDNER: Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Tezlyn Figaro, Lydia Moynihan, John Fugelsang and Chris Whipple.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER (on camera): Good evening. I'm Sara Sidner in for my pal, Abby Philip, here in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about, an extraordinary, revealing interview from one of President Trump's most trusted advisers. Chief of Staff Susie Wiles got unusually candid with Vanity Fair about working for Donald Trump, dishing at times on Trump's cabinet and vice president and delivered some unflattering assessments of some of the president's policies and even the president himself.
A short list of just some of her assessments that she told to Chris Whipple of Vanity Fair, Trump, she said, has an alcoholic's personality, believing there's nothing he can't do. J.D. Vance, she says, is a conspiracy theorist who is guided by politics. Pam Bondi completely whiffed on the Epstein files. She called Budget Director and Project 2025 architect Russell Vought right wing zealot. She said, Elon Musk's DOGE chaos was linked to his alleged drug use. And she admitted that Trump is out for revenge, which New York Attorney General Letitia James' lawyer called an astonishing admission.
Wiles is now distancing herself from the profile, calling the article a hit piece, and claiming her words were taken out of context. The White House is echoing the same sentiment today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This was unfortunately another attempt at fake news by a reporter who was acting disingenuously and really did take the chief's words out of context. But I think most importantly, the bias of omission was ever present throughout this story. The reporter omitted all of the positive things that Susie and our team said about the president and the inner workings of the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: It just so happens at our table today, we have the reporter that had all of those details in an interview that he did many different interviews.
Chris, I do want to first get to you, you hearing the claims there that this was things taken out of context. Were they?
CHRIS WHIPPLE, WRITER, VANITY FAIR: Well, look, I mean the, when you hear words like out of context and omissions and framing, what that tells you right away is that you are absolutely -- you have hit the target. They have nothing. They literally have not challenged a single assertion or fact in the piece.
And so, to me, this is -- this reminds me of Ben Bradley during the Watergate days, who talked about non-denial, denials. This is a classic non-denial, denial. They're not contesting any of the substance of the piece because they know it's true.
SIDNER: Is that because you recorded the interviews?
WHIPPLE: And every interview was recorded, everything is on tape. And so they know that they just can't go there.
SIDNER: All right. To you, Scott Jennings, when you hear the litany of things that were said by Wiles, who is perhaps the most trusted person when it comes to Donald Trump, what do you make of what you just heard?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, I don't care if Susie Wiles or anyone else in the White House has an opinion. Truthfully, I don't care if they talk to a reporter. I don't care if they do it on the record or for a profile. Everybody's allowed to have opinions. And when you put a group of people together, you know, in a White House, you're going to have differences of opinions about things, perfectly fine.
[22:05:01]
The only person's opinion here who really matters is the president. He loves Susie Wiles and she's --
SIDNER: But doesn't she help shape what he does?
JENNINGS: Of course. And she runs the White House and I think runs it quite effectively. I mean, the speed at which they've moved this time around has astonished all of the president's supporters.
So, look, I mean, I view this as an act of transparency and, you know, I get that some of these things have rattled, you know, the chattering class in Washington. But for the president's supporters out in the country, I don't really think this is going to bother them all that much that people sat down and had some candid conversations. I mean, maybe they weren't quite expecting to hear it.
But if the president of the United States says, I love Susie and she's our person and she's our chief, he said it yesterday, he's saying it today.
SIDNER: Well, all the Republicans have fallen in line too. I mean, you're seeing many people come out and say the same thing about her saying --
JENNINGS: Yes. Well, it's true because we all -- I mean, look, she ran a great campaign. Now, she's running a great White House. I mean, to me, the biggest scandal of the day was the photos. I mean, why did they take the -- I know you don't take the photos, but what was going on with the photos? They took these photos. They zoomed in on them massively. They edited them to make them look bad. Why? Why is Vanity Fair doing this with the photos if not but just to, you know, try to intentionally, you know, hurt people?
So, again, I don't have any problem with people doing interviews. I thought the photos thing was pretty egregious.
SIDNER: How did you see what you heard? Because she went after Vice President Vance, she said some unflattering things about him, Pam Bondi --
JOHN FUGELSANG, SIRIUSXM HOST, TELL ME EVERYTHING: Oh, yes. I did not have Susie Wiles checking off every box on my bingo card, on my bingo card today. I mean, these things used to be leaked anonymously, but Susie went and bought a Costco sized box of truth for the rest of us. And, honestly, I don't know what you think Mr. Whipple, but it seems like she's begun the process. We'll be seeing a lot of our Republican friends doing between now and the midterms of beginning to put space between herself and this president. I would not be surprised at all if we find out that Susie Wiles is declaring victory and announcing she's moving on around the one year mark. Right now they're going to do damage control over this and attack the messenger, and as you said, not refute any of the points.
And there're so many ways a right wing zealot can be interpreted, isn't it? But I do think that what we'll --
JENNINGS: I thought that was one of the most positive things that would happen today.
FUGELSANG: I'm sure you did.
JENNINGS: I loved it.
FUGELSANG: I'm sure you did.
LYDIA MOYNIHAN, CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK POST: I think Russell Vought's wearing it as a badge of honor.
JENNINGS: I'm like, I'm good.
FUGELSANG: But I wouldn't be surprised if Trump really didn't read it. And she just said, it's all fake news because it's printed in sentences, so it's a bit much for him.
So, I do think we'll be seeing no immediate repercussions. Don't be surprised if Susie leaves because she'd like to be employable beyond this job.
SIDNER: Lydia, when you hear some of the things she said though about the vice president and Pam Bondi, do you think that indicates that perhaps they might be in a bit of hot water, a bit of trouble in this administration?
MOYNIHAN: Well, my old boss had a hat that said, trust me, I'm a reporter. And his point to me is he was teaching me how to be a journalist, was the goal is to get as many juicy details as you possibly can and put it in a store. Your goal is not to be kind or gracious to somebody.
SIDNER: Well, the goal is to --
MOYNIHAN: You obviously wrote a very --
SIDNER: Hold on. The goal is to get an honest assessment from someone, to get a real look at something, not talking points. That is generally the goal of reporters, is to really get an honest view when you're usually given sort of something that is quite framed in a way that everyone wants the talking points to sound the same. That's usually the goal to get to the truth.
WHIPPLE: And can I say that she -- I think Susie Wildes deserves tremendous credit for having been as open and as transparent as she was. Look, I've covered, and many of us have covered other White Houses before. I wrote a book about the Biden White House. I can tell you that everybody was on deep background at all times, requiring quotation approval. Susie Wiles, to her credit, from day 1 with me, over 11 interviews and 11 months was on the record, except when we explicitly agreed to go off. And that was very rare.
And I think, honestly, that I don't think she was playing four dimensional chess. I don't think she's preparing an exit strategy. I really take her at her word. She told me that she thought Trump 1.0 had been vilified by the press corps, and she thought -- for whatever reason, she thought she was going to get a fair hearing from me.
SIDNER: Tezlyn, I do want to ask you about -- because there's one part of this we haven't talked about, which is Elon Musk and some of the comments that she made about him, that he was microdosing during some of the chaotic times when he was using DOGE and making all these cuts. What do you make of hearing that from her?
TEZLYN FIGARO, MANAGING EDITOR, REVOLT NEWS: Yes. To your point, this was not just some random conversation that somebody had at the water cooler. It was highly intentional. It was very direct. And I just want to be honest, and I know you said she's not playing chess but blinked twice, Susie, if you need any help, because, to me, this was clearly either a call for help or two being very clear with where she stands to have the distance with the midterms.
[22:10:03]
Three, either saying, you know, J.D. Vance, I know you're up next, and please know that I will be speaking up against whatever personal feeling she has about him, or simply for, you know, somebody asked her to take the fall. I mean, just being honest, somebody needed to come at -- I'm being a conspiracy theorist. I guess like this --
JENNINGS: Like the fall for what?
FIGARO: But whatever. I don't know. But for this woman to be --
FUGELSANG: I don't think she took the fall for anything.
JENNINGS: Take the fall, for what? I don't know.
FUGELSANG: She was putting space between herself and anything one will take the fall for anything.
FIGARO: Right. Well, I'm just going through the list of conspiracy -- you know, possible things. That could be, when I say take the fall for the bad decisions that have made in this administration. This woman to be this disciplined, to have this much experience, to be chief of staff, to sit down with you and lay all of this out and say that Elon Musk is on drugs, you know, while he was in charge of one of the most important divisions that we've had here in government, to me, it's very clear and very intentional. This was not some just fluke.
JENNINGS: Doesn't this show the confidence that Trump has in Susie Wiles? I mean, she feels confident to have a longstanding conversation going on with you. They obviously knew about it and did it over a period of time. I mean, the bond between them is pretty strong, is it not?
WHIPPLE: Absolutely. There's no question about. She is the most powerful person in the Trump White House, other than the president himself. I think she's the most fascinating person in American politics. Not only because she ran a brilliant campaign in 2024 and brought him back from the dead, but -- and she's the first female White House chief of staff, but also there's this amazing journey that she takes, and you can follow it in the Vanity Fair piece, from day one when she's trying to push back, trying to tap the brakes on what she thought were some of Trump's extreme practices.
And the end of the piece, the 11 months in where she has pretty much given up on any kind of, you know, the most important duty of any White House chief of staff is to tell the president what he doesn't want to hear. She confesses that she only argues about the little stuff.
FIGARO: Did she say why the timing? I'm just curious. Like why now?
WHIPPLE: No. No. And, again, I can only -- I can't psychoanalyze her. I can't say with any certainty whether she is being strategic or Machiavellian here. All I can tell you is what she told me, which is that she wanted to get a fair hearing for the Trump White House, which she believes it has never had.
MOYNIHAN: If anything coming out of this, it seems like Donald Trump told the Post that he continues to support Susie Wiles. Donald Trump Jr., J.D. Vance, everyone is circling the wagons. And in a way, I think it demonstrates how important and how relevant she is.
And, of course, for the MAGA base, there isn't a lot of trust in the media. Scott mentioned the photos, and I think a picture is worth a thousand words. You look at the photo that Vanity Fair put of Caroline Leavitt, not very flattering. And you look at the photo they put of Karine Jean-Pierre, she looks fabulous there.
So, I think the MAGA base isn't as much as this is juicy and everyone in the halls of D.C. and New York are reading this, I don't think that this changes anything for them.
FUGELSANG: She is the most competent person in this administration. He likes to hire incompetence, like Kash Patel and Pete Hegseth, because then they're not going to tell him he can't do something. Susie Wiles is the person in this administration who is the guardrails, who can tell him what he cannot do. And I got the impression from your piece that she is sort of giving up on that part of the job.
WHIPPLE: Well, I think you can follow -- again, follow this journey that she takes from day 56 when she told me that she had what she called a loose agreement with the president to stop the retribution of the score settling on day 90. And I asked her again many months later whatever happened to that. And she said, well, we're not really -- it's not a retribution tour. When I pressed her on Letitia James, I said, well, wait a minute, what about that? Well, that's a case of retro. SIDNER: It was actually quite stunning. I'm going to put a pause on this because we're going to talk more about some of the revelations that you brought forth. There are many more to come while making a stunning admission on the underlying reasons President Trump is pushing the bombing of alleged drug boats off the coast of Venezuela.
And speaking of Pete Hegseth now says he will not release video of that double-tap strike that caused so much controversy that some lawmakers think may show the U.S. committing a war crime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): One of the least professional classified briefings I have ever sat in on with the least amount of legal and intelligence justification for what is happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
SIDNER: All right. As the Trump administration now says it will not release video of that controversial double-tap strike on an alleged drug boat in the Caribbean, the president's chief of staff suggest to Vanity Fair that this is about regime change. Susie Wiles says in the article that Trump wants to, quote, keep on blowing up votes until Maduro cries uncle, but that is not how the Trump administration has been selling its bombing campaign to the public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Cartels bringing weapons, meaning drugs to the American people.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: They're trying to drug out our country.
We made a lot of progress with Venezuelan in terms of stopping drugs from going in.
HEGSETH: We must meet narco-terrorists and their illegal activities with strength and Swift action.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The cartels have only gotten more powerful.
TRUMP: We don't want drugs coming in from Venezuela or anybody else.
There was massive amounts of drugs coming into our country.
[22:20:00]
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Take on and eradicate these drug cartels.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SIDNER: Wiles also said that Trump would need Congressional approval for a land war in Venezuela, even though he says he does not.
I do need to ask you this, Chris, because you had these conversations over many months. Was there anything about what she was saying to you that you felt like was very calculated, or did she just get comfortable and start telling what she really, really thought no matter the consequence?
WHIPPLE: I have to tell you, I mean, I've been doing this for a long time. I've interviewed every living White House chief of staff for my book, The Gatekeepers. My gut feeling was that she just was being candid. She was -- she felt comfortable. She thought she was getting a fair hearing. And I think part of it was I think she felt that she could convince me that they were pursuing the right course.
And so, again, I'm not going to psychoanalyze her, but I can tell you what she told me.
SIDNER: I want to ask you -- I think I spoke last week to Congressman Magaziner, who said this war is not about drugs, it is about oil, and it is about getting regime changed. Do you think that's the case?
JENNINGS: Can it be about both? I mean, look, I got no problem with what they're doing. I think the American people are behind it.
SIDNER: But then what happened to America first and not getting involved with other wars, because a lot of people, even, you know, on the right as well, say, hold on a second, do we want to start another war?
JENNINGS: Good question. Well, I don't think it's very America first to let a narco-terrorist state with an illegitimate government that's aligned with China and Russia and Iran do things in our hemisphere that we don't like with drugs or anything else. I don't think we like it that they're trying to go into Guyana right now and take over their oil either.
And so the president's position has always been, this is the Western Hemisphere. We are going to police it. And we don't even recognize these guys as a legitimate government. And so he is trying to bring about a situation where the worst people in the hemisphere are not enriching themselves, not distributing drugs. And if we wind up with a legitimately elected government there that's aligned with the United States instead of Russia, China, and Iran, that's America first.
FUGELSANG: I'd love to add some facts to this.
SIDNER: I see you leaning in, John.
FUGELSANG: Yes. Thank you so much. Because we are murdering people in boats, in foreign waters based on lies. There is no evidence, there is no proof of any drugs on these boats. There is no due process for these people. We would not allow cops to murder Americans we think are carrying drugs. Donald Trump's pardon of the Honduran president, who smuggled 400 tons of cocaine into this country, shows they are not serious about stopping the flow of drugs. This is because some Republicans just can't give up the thought of a second war for oil in this century.
And I'm more interested in the bombings of October 16th, not September 2nd. October 16th was when there were two survivors, and we chose to not murder those survivors. And they sat on an Navy boat for two days. And then you know what our Navy did? Repatriated them back to Colombia and Ecuador, they sent them home, which means either we are murdering innocent people or we are letting dangerous narco-terrorists go free. That's the deal.
JENNINGS: I can report to you what Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman said today who went into a classified briefing and came out and said, we know exactly who's on the boats. We know exactly what they're doing. We know exactly what they have.
FUGELSANG: So, you can't show the --
JENNINGS: You have a --
FUGELSANG: It's all real, but we can't ever let you see it?
JENNINGS: These are classified briefings, but you have a United States Senator of the president's opposition party saying. I got a briefing, I saw the intelligence and we know exactly what we're doing.
FUGELSANG: You know, they lied for months it was about fentanyl for.
JENNINGS: If you want to call John Fetterman a liar, go ahead. That's what he's saying.
FUGELSANG: It's a lie that fentanyl comes from Venezuela, and then they corrected that lie and changed it to cocaine. They can't keep their story straight. We are murdering people in foreign waters because we want 17 percent of the world's oil.
MOYNIHAN: How do you see it? The reality is that the vast majority of Americans, about 57 percent, are very supportive of this. They see this as an extension, not of Trump's foreign policy, but ultimately of protecting the homeland. And since these attacks have begun, 95 percent decrease in the number of drugs that are being smuggled here.
So, I think, again, we've always policed our own backyard, the Western Hemisphere. And bear in mind, yes, this is about drugs. It's about a lot of things. It's about drugs. It's also about --
FUGELSANG: No evidence.
MOYNIHAN: -- Venezuela is a narco-terrorist state. They've sent gangs. There's been FBI reports on this.
And one final piece in people have been very critical that America first means America alone. It means that America is isolated and this is actually essentially a proxy war. China is very supportive of Venezuela. We have Russia. And so I think this is also an element of deterrence, right? We're showing our adversaries that we are strong and that we have the ability to police our own backyard.
FUGELSANG: They have no evidence.
JENNINGS: That's a lie. Senators are being given evidence every day.
FUGELSANG: But there's no process. We're killing people.
MOYNIHAN: When did we release all of the classified information in a war?
FUGELSANG: We're just killing people with no evidence.
[22:25:00]
I'm sorry, law enforcement means you intercept the boat. You put the dope on the table. You shake the guys down to get a bigger fish. They're not trying to be law enforcement.
JENNINGS: How's that been working for the United States?
FUGELSANG: They are murdering people. And Susie Wiles said the real reason, because they want to force Maduro to quit.
SIDNER: I do want to ask you, you mentioned a number, I think you said, what was it, 95 percent? What was the number?
MOYNIHAN: Oh, yes, of fewer drugs being smuggled into the U.S.
SIDNER: Where is that number coming from, 95 percent?
MOYNIHAN: The federal government drug. They signed the secretary of war.
FUGELSANG: Oh, the folks who said it was Fentanyl from Venezuela?
SIDNER: I mean, do you have -- is there some proof? Because I have not heard that number, that 95 percent?
JENNINGS: Yes. They say, the boat traffic is reduced by that.
WHIPPLE: And, by the way, there are also studies that show that when the Coast Guard stops boats suspected of smuggling drugs, that at least one quarter of the time they are wrong. So, you know, if you blow up boats willy-nilly and insist that they're drug smugglers, at least a quarter of the time, you're wrong.
JENNINGS: Well, hold on, willy-nilly. You have U.S. senators of the president's opposition party going into classified briefings coming out of the briefing saying, we know who's on the boats, we know what's on the boats, this is a righteous move. This is not a one party situation.
SIDNER: That is --
JENNINGS: I mean, evidence is being shown to the people that are elected -- FUGELSANG: They sent two of them home to Ecuador and Colombia. They sent them home. If they're terrorists, why were they released?
SIDNER: Fetterman isn't the only person in the Democratic wing that has seen some of this and said that it does appear, at least in the September 2nd strikes, that there were drugs potentially on the boats. He is not the only one. But I guess the big question is of they've been putting these videos out constantly, very quickly, and this is the only one that they have held back that we know of, that they won't show that there is demand for what the public to see, because they want to see what's being done in their name as to whether or not a war crime was committed here. And it's quite serious.
So, I guess the question is why not release it? If you are on the up and up, why not release this video?
JENNINGS: Yes. Look, I am pro releasing the videos. I think it's good to release the videos. They say there's classified reasons not to release this one. I wouldn't be able to tell you what that is. But in my opinion, as a political matter, it's good for them to lean into this and release these videos, because I think the American people are behind them.
WHIPPLE: Well, you know, when I pressed Susie Wiles on this issue, I said, look, drug smuggling is not a capital offense punishable by the death penalty, no matter how much Donald Trump wishes that were so. And she conceded that. She said, but this is a war. And I said, well, it's a war according to the president, not according to anyone else. And you need Congressional approval for war. So -- and she didn't have a very satisfactory answer to that.
SIDNER: Tezlyn, what do you see happening here when you look at what has happened over time? Just yesterday, we saw more strikes, and those strikes were the video was released right away. What's happening?
FIGARO: They're picking and choosing. As you know, I'm a veteran. And just a couple of weeks ago it was, we're going to release the tape, release the tapes. They've changed the story, you know, every other hour. One minute, we were supposed to double-tap, not supposed to double-tap, then don't call the double-tap, then we waited 45 minutes, I was watching then, I wasn't watching. It's all over the place and people have lost confidence.
And it's so interesting how the story has now just completely, you know, changed. On last week you had Republicans and Democrats that were saying something is wrong here. This is a war crime. And it's just very interesting how now these classified mean. Yes, Scott --
JENNINGS: No Republicans called it a war crime.
FIGARO: No, there was --
(CROSSTALKS)
MOYNIHAN: I think some of the confusion is also some faulty reporting from The Washington Post. FIGARO: It's always the reporters. It's always the reporters. It's so interesting.
(CROSSTALKS)
FUGELSANG: Hegseth's take on this is you would totally agree with us if you saw the video, which will never happen.
FIGARO: Right. And now it's time to see the video and we don't see it.
JENNINGS: But Hegseth and Rubio went up to the Hill today and briefed members in both chambers. I interviewed one of them on my radio show today, Todd Young of Indiana, who has sometimes actually been a little bit at odds with the Trump administration. He was satisfied with what he heard today and supportive of what the administration did and thought they were being transparent about what they were doing and why they were doing it.
FUGELSANG: Why should adults believe Pete Hegseth?
SIDNER: I mean, but they are not being transparent with the American people. I think that's the issue. It's that there are so many that have been released and not this one, and it does make a lot of people question what happened, what's the difference?
FIGARO: You're saying there were no Republicans that were saying something's wrong with this.
JENNINGS: You said they were -- you said -- your statement was they called it war crimes. I didn't hear any Republicans call it.
FIGARO: I said Democrats and both Republicans were saying something's wrong here. There were people who were saying --
JENNINGS: They had questions. And I'm telling you, they went up and briefed them today. And the Republicans I spoke to were satisfied with the transparency and the explanations about what happened.
FIGARO: Also known as falling in line.
FUGELSANG: Career military are trying to explain to civilians in the Pentagon that this is not what war is.
SIDNER: All right, we're going to pause this because there's another big subject that a lot of Americans are very concerned about, and that is their own personal economy and the economy at large. J.D. Vance contradicting the president on the economy, saying, yes, there is an affordability crisis. However, he is bragging about the unpopular economy. Another special guest is going to join us on the table in just a bit.
[22:30:00]
SIDNER: Another special is going to join us on the table in just a bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SIDNER: All right. Tonight there's more troubling news for the economy. Unemployment just hit a four-year high last month reaching 4.6 percent. On top of that hiring has slowed and Americans hourly wages grew at the slowest rate in four years as well. The economy though added 64,000 jobs in November, but that comes after 105,000 American jobs were lost in October.
[22:35:01]
But the White House is celebrating that jobs report while ignoring the fact that it also revised down the jobs added in August and September by 33,000. Now, there is a twist. When it comes to the economy, the Vice President's rhetoric does not match the President's now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: If we keep wages high, we keep energy prices low, we keep on chipping away at the affordability crisis created by Joe Biden's administration, yes, I believe the American people are going to reward us because the American people are smart.
They know Rome wasn't built in a day. They know what Joe Biden broke is not going to get fixed in a week. You know, I hear these guys, hear these Democrats talk about this as if you were going to fix these problems in a single day.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Starting on day one, we will end inflation and make America affordable again. Starting on day one, we will end inflation and make America affordable again. We'll do that. We've got to bring it down. Starting the day I take the oath of office, I will rapidly drive prices down and we will make America affordable again. So, when I win, I will immediately bring prices down starting on day one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: So, you did hear Vance at the beginning there admitting there is an affordability crisis, but he is urging patience, which is not what voters were promised when the President was elected. Still, Vance says the Trump administration is simply trying to clean up Biden's mess and he couldn't be happier with where things stand now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: President Trump last week gave his economy a grade of A plus, plus. What grade would you give the economy today? A plus, plus.
(APPLAUSE)
VANCE: Look, I --
CROWD: USA.USA.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SIDNER: All right, joining us at the table, Rana Foroohar has just arrived, just in time. A plus, plus, we heard that from the President. We are now hearing that from the Vice President. What grade do you give the economy?
RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: Oh, boy. Well, you know, we started a few years back post COVID with an A plus recovery. I mean, it was the best recovery in the rich world. Since then, things have softened. Look, the jobs market is softening, inflation is up. I would have to say B, and moving into B minus territory probably.
And look, you know, I say this often. Presidents take a lot of blame. Joe Biden took a lot of blame for inflation. Not all of it was his fault. Trump is going to take the heat now. I mean, I think it's sort of interesting that he won the election in part because he was able to blame the previous administration.
But the affordability crisis is now his to own. And to be honest, I thought it was always disingenuous. and it was going to catch up with him that he was saying, I'm going to lower prices on day one. Because if you think about what this administration is trying to do and frankly, what the Biden administration tried to do in some ways, it's not disinflationary.
Reindustrialization, bringing manufacturing back to the U.S., it's inflationary. Now, I've been for some of that, but in the long, you know, that's the long term, short to midterm inflationary, building out A.I., inflationary.
Healthcare -- the cost going up big time, inflationary. So, there's not a lot that you can point to that the President can really leverage in any way to say, yes, I'm to get prices down. I don't think they're going to come down. I think they're going up.
SIDNER: Lydia.
FOROOHAR: Tariffs. We haven't gotten to that yet, but --
SIDNER: Do you think that the Trump administration and Trump in particular himself is doing the same thing that the Biden administration did, which was to say the economy is fine. What are you guys complaining about? It's like doing well.
LYDIA MOYNIHAN, "NEW YORK POST" CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting. This panel has criticized Trump for sort of being out of touch and a billionaire and sort of gaslighting people. And clearly, J.D. Vance, we saw is taking a very different tact. He's acknowledging that people are feeling pain and feeling a pinch. And also saying, look, it's going to get better.
And I think that's a really smart strategy because the reality is that prices are up 25 percent since Joe Biden took office. That isn't going to change. But what J.D. Vance is painting is the fact that we are moving into a better economy. And that in a year, people will feel the benefit of tax cuts. They'll start to feel some of the benefits of the policies that Trump is putting in place. And I think that's a smart way to do it because clearly, Americans are
not happy. Consumer sentiment is not great. Acknowledging that and then taking it a step further and saying, okay, well, here's everything we're doing. And I think there are a lot of positive things they can point to -- real wage growth --
SIDNER: Yes. Do think it's confusing though to people to hear Trump saying like everything's fine, you know, I don't know what you people are complaining about. And then hearing the Vice President say, well, there is an affordability crisis.
MOYNIHAN: I think they're two very different messengers. I think people know that Trump can be a little hyperbolic. It's the best, it's the worst. He -- that's how he speaks. He speaks very plainly. He's certainly a compelling advocate for his beliefs. But look, obviously, Vance understands how poor and middle class people are living.
[22:40:00]
He's from, you know, a tough background. And so I think he maybe resonates more with those folks than Trump or anyone else does because of his background.
(CROSSTALK)
TEZLYN FIGARO, MANAGING DIRECTOR, REVOLT NEWS: Good job. You tried it. It's confusing. Last week, President Trump said that affordability was a hoax. After Mamdani won on the messaging of affordability, he went out and said it's a hoax, a hoax, a hoax. Now you have J.D. Vance who's saying, it's not a hoax. It's actually affordability -- and is an issue.
And when I was here a couple months ago, remember, Scott, we were talking about a health care reform. Remember when we did this thing called the government shutdown? And Republicans said they're going to be, you know, having votes in good faith. And now here we are, just today deciding that, they actually won't be doing anything to reduce health care. And that will be going up triple amounts in January.
And that's not a hoax. That's an actual real thing that's actually going to hurt people. People are actually going to die. So, this is no longer just a conversation on the cost of eggs. And J.D. Vance says this and old, this -- this is not a messaging issue. This is a real problem that people are feeling. Trump said day one, stand on it. You said day one and here we are what day what? Three hundred and sixty --
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: Yes. So no, it hasn't been fixed and their messaging needs to get on point but not just their messaging their actual policy needs to be in place to fix the problem.
FOROOHAR: Yes, it's interesting because I think showing up in Pennsylvania. I agree with you in the sense that showing up in Pennsylvania and saying, yes, there's an affordability crisis. That's a good move politically. One of the things I was disappointed about during the Biden administration is that there wasn't more acknowledgment of that toward, you know, particularly during Kamala Harris's campaign.
But I got to say, the policies that both administrations and the Trump administration with tariffs are trying to put forward, these are not quick fixes. This is about essentially changing the whole structure of the economy, which was always in the last 50 years about driving prices down, but it did that in part by putting work abroad, by outsourcing, and now we're trying to change that paradigm.
It is not a quick fix. And then you've got totally separate things like health care, which, P.S., I think is going to be the biggest midterm and presidential election issue.
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: Republicans are saying -- some Republicans are saying the same thing.
(CROSSTALK)
JOHN FUGELSANG, SIRIUSXM HOST, "TELL ME EVERYTHING": Marjorie Taylor Greene has been trying to warn Republicans that throwing 20 million souls off the health care rolls and Medicare is going to hurt red state voters. She has not been listened to. A plus, plus is not a real review. That is like a guy reviewing his own restaurant on Yelp. It's not a real thing.
(CROSSTALK)
FUGELSANG: -- in the same speech.
(CROSSTALK)
FUGELSANG: No, she's not a darling.
(CROSSTALK)
FUGELSANG: She's still a deeply dishonest person who's trying to save her own skin. But yet you quote her as an authority. I did, because she's trying to tell the truth about one thing. I'll praise her when she tells the truth. So, when she helps in her own house, in one speech, said there's an affordability crisis and I give it A plus, plus.
Which one is it? Biden left us a disaster or things are going great. It's not confusion. It's straight up tap dancing, double-talking jive with these people. J.D. Vance does have a true rags-to-riches story, but he uses that as moral cover for policies that hurt the same kind of people he used to.
UNKNOWN: That's right.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You talked about the outsourcing and I agree with you and that's I think a lot of the people who came into the Trump coalition are mad that we spent a long time building an economy that pushed jobs away from middle America, pushed jobs away from the industrial base of this country.
And even today I was looking at the jobs report, all the net job growth during the Trump administration has gone to American born workers, which is something they tout, but it's part of the long term restructuring. And so, I think J.D.'s message here has been -- the way out of this is wage growth, jobs for American citizens, and we keep energy prices low.
If you talk to Scott Bessent, he'll tell you he has extreme confidence that the economy is going to continue to see job boom in 2026 because of the tax and deregulation changes they made in 2025.
(CROSSTALK)
FUGELSANG: And if not, he'll be fine.
JENNINGS: When you hear that when you hear the President express optimism, it's because economic advisors say you made the correct changes in '25 and it'll pay dividends.
FOROOHAR: It's going to be a very interesting experiment to see whether that will actually work. Are we going to get animal spirits up by doing the things that you're talking about or are we at this pivot point? I mean, we are -- inflation tends to rise and fall in four year cycles. We're in a cycle that is going up at a time when many things are unstable.
Tariffs -- I mean, you know, can argue for them. I argue for them on China and not on the whole world. They are inflationary, you know. And A.I. is disrupting jobs in the middle market. A lot of college grads can't find jobs. There's just all of these things in play. Very difficult to tell how the policies are going --
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: We're going to pause it here, but just sort of the final thing is that a lot of Americans will be hurting when it comes to health care. That is a real thing.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: The House Republicans are actually going to vote on a bill this week. The CBO score, 12 percent reduction in premiums. The Democratic alternative, only a five reduction. So if you want to vote for a bill this week in the House that lowers health care premiums, you could vote for the Republican plan.
[22:45:00]
SIDNER: We will see what happens going forward. Rana, thank you so much for joining us.
FOROOHAR: Thank you.
SIDNER: I had Kash Patel under fire tonight as an interview airs with him and his girlfriend during another manhunt. That story next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:49:51]
SIDNER: Tonight, Kash Patel facing more criticism as the agency he heads is trying to find the Brown University killer. The FBI director is doing podcasts about his love life.
[22:50:01]
The friendly interview released tonight featuring Patel's girlfriend and aspiring country singer isn't helping his case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATIE MILLER, "THE KATIE MILLER" PODCAST HOST: Where's her ring?
(LAUGHTER)
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: It's definitely coming, so I wouldn't worry about it.
MILLER: What's the best thing she cooks?
PATEL: Chili. Bison chili.
MILLER: Have you written any love songs about Kash?
(LAUGHTER)
ALEXIS WILKINS, COUNTRY SINGER AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know what's funny? I don't think anyone's ever asked that. Yes, I have.
MILLER: We're going to play the time-honored game of "Would You Rather". I want you both to answer, okay?
PATEL: She goes first.
MILLER: Would you rather never be apart again, but always have paparazzi around, or keep doing long distance, but stay totally private?
PATEL: Oof.
WILKINS: Oh.
PATEL: I think the answer --
MILLER: You just said she was going to answer first.
PATEL: Yes, I know, but she said it's not fair.
(LAUGHTER)
PATEL: So you go first.
WILKINS: No, you already started. You have to go now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: So that was taped before the shooting. It was released yesterday or tonight. It was released tonight. I was like, the days are blurring. I guess the question to you is why?
JENNINGS: Taped before the shooting.
SIDNER: Taped before the shooting.
JENNINGS: So they don't have any control when a podcast puts something out necessarily. Look, I -- this administration keeps doing interviews. I keep-- people keep telling me that they're not transparent. They're hostile. They keep doing interviews with anyone who will ask. And so you have a lot of transparency, A.
B, in the case of Brown, the FBI is there assisting what is a local law enforcement situation. B, they're on a great run right now. They foiled the L.A. New Year's Eve terrorist plot, which was a huge deal. They caught the D.C. pipe bomber. I mean, the FBI is catching some bad guys right now, and we've got them and the ATF surging resources to Providence to assist in a local law enforcement situation. He taped an interview before this thing happened. I'm not sure what the big deal --
FUGELSANG: And they also said they had someone in custody when they didn't. Every time Kash Patel opens his mouth, someone should play the Benny Hill theme, okay? There's career FBI agents chasing an active shooter and this guy is chasing social media engagement numbers. I mean, there's shooters still on the loose bro. Smash the like button. Here's my girlfriend.
I mean somewhere in hell, J. Edgar Hoover is wearing a dress and he's appalled at what has happened to his bureau. And by the way, there's things in my fridge that will last longer than Kash Patel in this job. And I can't wait to see how well the relationship works once he's not employed. This is an embarrassment to career FBI agents.
SIDNER: Do you think Kash Patel is in trouble?
MOYNIHAN: Some sources I've spoken with are skeptical of how long his future will be at the FBI. I think there's some frustration both in the Kirk investigation and at Brown that he was jumping the gun in terms of saying that they had a person of interest and that person --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: And sitting in --
MOYNIHAN: -- did not actually turn out. But look, I think that aside, I think conservatives are also very pleased with a lot that he's doing in terms of revealing some of the corruption in the FBI under Biden. I mean, today there was a report basically saying that FBI agents were sort of pushed into the Mar-a-Lago raid under Biden, even though they didn't feel they had evidence. He has helped reveal the -- (CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: They had evidence.
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: -- the raid of classified documents?
MOYNIHAN: Yes.
SIDNER: Where they found them?
MOYNIHAN: Yes.
FUGELSANG: There was plenty of evidence. We saw it on TV.
(CROSSTALK)
MOYNIHAN: Today -- well, a new report would suggest that that was not the case. But you also revealed Arctic Frost, which has basically showed that under Biden there was a tremendous surveillance state looking into Republicans and Trump.
And so, I think it's a mixed bag on that front but I would say, and my colleague at "The Post", Miranda Devine has done some reporting on folks internally who are frustrated. There was one anecdote, I guess he wouldn't get off a plane until he had an FBI jacket on when he went to go.
FUGELSANG: And they had to borrow a jacket for that.
(CROSSTALK)
MOYNIHAN: So, it's a mixed bag but I think conservatives are pleased with what he's done in terms of revealing corruption.
FUGELSANG: This is a person who has gone after and stalked career law enforcement officers because they went after the terrorists who beat cops for a lie on the steps of the Capitol on January 6th, 2021, which I know you don't agree with, Mr. Jennings. So, that's Kash Patel. That's his legacy.
They went after the career law enforcement officers who tracked down these terrorists who beat our cops to steal an election for Donald Trump's lie. That is his legacy. That's who he's protecting. He is not fighting for the law. He is a henchman.
SIDNER: All right, we're going to leave it there.
(CROSSTALK)
FUGELSANG: -- that as a compliment.
SIDNER: Wow. Do not compliment me, Sir. Next, the panel tonight caps, Marijuana edition.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:59:04]
SIDNER: President Trump is expected to sign an executive order that would ease federal restrictions on marijuana. That had us wondering, what else in society needs lower restrictions? Lydia, beginning with you.
MOYNIHAN: I think we should lower the restrictions for the jobs that require a college degree. Palantir recently started hiring some high school students. I think people are spending too much money. They're going to debt. I'm very curious to see if that will happen in the future.
SIDNER: Tezlyn?
FIGARO: Well, first, I appreciate what President Trump has done. See how I can be fair, Scott? I appreciate. President Trump is doing actually advocated a lot for the First Step Act. But one of things I would like to see, and this is not a federal issue, it's state to state, but I would like to see restrictions on people who don't pay child support losing their driver's license. I'm a big fan of obviously paying child support. That's very important, me being a mom.
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: But they have to get to their job.
FIGARO: But they got to get to the job. And that's just something that has always kind of bothered me, like let people get actually get a license and go to work.
SIDNER: John?
FUGELSANG: Mental health care access. We treat mental health care as a luxury instead of essential infrastructure for our society.
[23:00:02]
And we treat therapy like plutonium while allowing people to just spiral out until they wind up in the criminal justice system. I think that the marijuana argument has taught us that treating -- or the drug war has taught us that treating sick people as criminals didn't work in the drug war and it doesn't work now.
SIDNER: Scott?
JENNINGS: Nothing. Literally nothing. This all sounds like shenanigans to me.
SIDNER: Shenanigans?
JENNINGS: I think we have reduced restrictions too much on everything. I'm for more restrictions. I'm zero shenanigans policy. This sounds like shenanigans. Nothing. No -- I don't want to reduce the restrictions on anything. SIDNER: All right, we're out of time. Thank you so much everyone. And
thank you for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts now.
