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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Noem On Elections: We Need Right People To Elect Right Leaders; More GOP Officials Balking At Trump's DOJ's Voter Roll Crusade; Obama Responds To Trump's Racist Ape Video, Clown Show; More Red States Reject ICE Detention Centers; Slavery Exhibit Ordered To Be Restored. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired February 16, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, the cabinet official facing heat over everything from ICE to her blanket outbursts steps into the fire again.
KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We've been proactive to make sure that we have the right people voting, electing the right leaders.
PHILLIP: Plus --
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: There's this sort of clown show that's happening.
PHILLIP: -- Barack Obama responds to Donald Trump's racist video while George W. Bush indirectly declares Trump's no George Washington.
Also, more red states are telling the administration, not in our backyard. How ICE's mass detention plans are hitting walls.
And a judge invokes George Orwell to order the administration to bring back slavery exhibits removed in Pennsylvania.
Live at the table, Leigh McGowan, Kevin O'Leary, Tezlyn Figaro, Lydia Moynihan, and Elie Honig.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America's talking about, a Trump cabinet official once again under fire, and it is a familiar name, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem. She's already in hot water over her handling of ICE operations in Minnesota, and she made this comment when talking about securing elections.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NOEM: I would say that many people believe that it may be one of the most important things that we need to make sure we trust is reliable, and that when it gets to Election Day, that we've been proactive to make sure that we have the right people voting, electing the right leaders to lead this country through the days that we have knowing the people can trust it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: The backlash was swift. Chuck Schumer called it Trump's idea of democracy, leaders selecting their voters. Noem called the criticism manufactured outrage, highlighting the need to make it easier for eligible American citizens to vote and clarifying the choice of who to vote for is obviously up to the voters themselves. Obviously, except if you actually listen to what she said.
Lydia, it's one of those answers that I think many Republicans would describe as a word salad answer, but also it seems to feed into a feeling that a lot of people have, that Kristi Noem and DHS, in particular, see it as their mission to get into the voting space and to do what Trump wants them to do, which is to, at the very least, monitor American elections that he thinks are rigged.
LYDIA MOYNIHAN, CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK POST: Well, look, I think it was a clumsy turn of phrase and I think. If we've learned anything as this year, it's that Kristi Noem should be much more careful about the language that she uses because this has gotten her in trouble a few times already.
But big picture, you know, I watched her comments. She was talking about the SAVE Act in Arizona, and it's very clear that she just wants people to have voter I.D. I don't think there's any dictator that's all for free and fair elections. And, look, this is something that the vast majority of Americans want. They want proof of citizenship. This is something that the vast majority of countries also have, whether it's India or Brazil. Some developing nations are able to figure this out. I think we should be able to figure this out as well.
And I also want to address, because we've discussed on this show, you know, whether or not proof of citizenship is too onerous. And the bottom line is that Democrats don't want voter I.D. at all if it's passports, driver's license. Schumer has said he would not enact the SAVE Act, not vote for it, or any similar measure when Georgia tried to enact any form of voter I.D., just some rough guardrails to make sure that elections were safe in 2021. Biden's DOJ sued them.
So, this seems to be a big issue that Democrats are opposing. And, yes, I would concede that Krisit Noem's term of phrase was clumsy.
PHILLIP: A couple things, Georgia already has voter I.D. But President Obama --
MOYNIHAN: Right. But in 2021, Biden's DOJ did try to stop them.
PHILLIP: Stacey Abrams, Jim Clyburn have all come out and said they would be fine with voter I.D. I think the biggest question is not voter I.D., but what counts as an I.D. That's been one of the biggest issues that are surrounding this.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. Lydia's right that Americans, including Democrats, I think overwhelmingly are in favor of at least voter I.D. at the ballot place. Higher percentage of Republicans, but 80-plus percentage of all Americans are at least in favor of you have to show some sort of I.D. when you vote.
[22:05:00]
However, let's also be clear about what Kristi Noem is doing here, what Donald Trump is doing here. They're trying to take that basic, pretty uncontroversial foundation and use it as a pretext to go nuts on the election system, case in point, the search warrant, the raid on the Fulton County Elections Office two or three weeks ago.
That affidavit came out last week. And I want to be clear, okay? So, they went in, they sent federal agents into Fulton County. They seized hundreds of thousands of ballots from 2020. Let me just read you part of the justification that DOJ put in front of a judge to do that, okay? They said they got information from an unknown data analyst who downloaded data online from something called ZebraDuck and believed it was from an open records request from Fulton County, but was not positive as he was not part of acquiring the data and received the data secondhand.
That is garbage. That gets you nowhere. I don't know how and why a judge even signed this. But they're trying to take this basic fact and use it to take extreme measures.
LEIGH MCGOWAN, PODCAST HOST, POLITICSGIRL: Yes. I think the thing is that the SAVE Act is a voter suppression act wrapped up as a Voter Protection Act. That is not what we're doing here. We are trying to make it incredibly difficult for certain people to vote. And at the very end of the day, we're going to have a nationalized election where the federal government is taking over what is a state's job.
We have talked endlessly about states' rights for years and years. It is the Republican position that the federal government has no business in the state's rights, and that's why we got rid of the John Lewis Voter Rights Act when it was passed by the 117th Congress. That's why we got rid of this -- the other act, For the People's Act, when it was passed by the 117th Congress. Those were things that would actually have addressed voter problems. Those were things like getting rid of gerrymandering, making voting day a holiday. Those kind of things were really important.
What we're doing here is not that. We're talking about having ICE around voting places. We're talking about taking people and making them afraid. And that's --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Nobody, except for Steve Bannon has said --
MOYNIHAN: He's provocateur. PHILLIP: Well, you could him a provocateur. You could also call him somebody who has had the president's ear for a long time. Nobody except for Steve Bannon has talked about ICE surrounding voting places are.
MCGOWAN: We're talking about ICE taking over voting rolls.
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN, O'LEARY VENTURES: This narrative has to be bipartisan by every metric. Every 24 months, we go through this debate over and over again when every country, in the Nordic countries in Europe, France, Switzerland, Canada, Australia, solved this problem decades ago. A, you got to be the citizen to vote. You got to prove it. We all agree at the table on that one.
Number two, there's such advancement in technology to make sure there's no cheating. We should implement it here and get all this crapola over with. It's getting almost boring. Every 24 months, oh, the election's rigged, oh, this guy's doing this, this guy's doing that. No other country has this narrative.
MCGOWAN: Kevin, I agree with you. It is getting incredibly boring.
O'LEARY: It's ridiculous.
MCGOWAN: We talk about this all the time. It's incredibly boring. But it's also not an actual problem. Like when you look at the statistics, voting -- illegals voting is not an actual problem in this country. You do need to show I.D. to be able to vote.
O'LEARY: But you agree if you're not a citizen, you can't vote.
MCGOWAN: I would agree with that, but that's not what the problem is. The problem is that we have 0.001 percent of people that are illegally voting. The Heritage Foundation said that three related fraud cases since 2017, the Brennan Center for Justice says there's a hundred confirmed instances since the 1980s. This is not a real problem. The problem the Trump administration is trying to solve is that they are not doing well. They're not going to do well in the midterm elections. And they are coming up to it to find --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: It's already illegal.
MCGOWAN: No one is doing that.
PHILLIP: It's already illegal to vote if you're not a citizen.
O'LEARY: So why don't just say if you cheat and steal and you're illegal, you go to jail?
PHILLIP: That's already the law. Go ahead, Tezlyn.
TEZLYN FIGARO, FOUNDER, PUSH THE LINE: They know that I'm happy to answer your question, when you said who are these people. Like you said, this is a voter suppression act, a voter suppression act, bottom line. Nobody has a problem with people being able to show I.D. It is, what is that I.D.? And when we talk about -- no, they don't. And so let's talk about what the real motivation. When we talk about the cost --
PHILLIP: They used -- Democrats used to oppose voter I.D. laws. That is true. But that has changed.
FIGARO: Right. Well, I'm not a Democrat. So, I'm independent. I know you guys always say, I can't tell, but I am. So, this is not about Democrat or Republican, but what I am here to represent is people who are poor and disenfranchised. The cost to actually get a passport or a birth certificate is $20 to $60.
And that may not mean anything to you, but it means a lot to people who can't even afford to put groceries on their table. There's also issues with transportation when actually getting to get those documents. There's also issues with people be having to make a decision between do I go to work or do I actually go get the documents?
So, the sworn affidavits that the states already say --
O'LEARY: How would you solve it?
FIGARO: -- to see -- that's the whole point. Inviting those people to be a part of the election process --
O'LEARY: Without any I.D.?
FIGARO: -- so that we can -- no. Inviting those people to be a part of the election process is what Republicans are scared of and even some Democrats, that's all, that's exactly it. Because the more that folks are -- the more disenfranchised people are a part of our election system and our process and our government, the more things change. And that is the real fear, to your point, on voter suppression, voter depression on people who are already not even want to be involved in this.
[22:10:01]
MOYNIHAN: States that actually have passed voter I.D. laws, we see more voting after the fact. I just -- I don't buy that narrative that --
FIGARO: Well, you don't buy it because you never lived it.
MOYNIHAN: -- that showing I.D.-
FIGARO: Yes, it's not about showing I.D. It's what the I.D. counts --
MCGOWAN: Do you have a passport?
MOYNIHAN: So, to be clear --
MCGOWAN: If you have a passport, like say -- no, to be clear, I have a passport. Okay. So, you can say, I filled in all the things, I have a passport. My passport was $165. If you don't have $165, it becomes a poll tax. If you don't have a passport, then you have to show your birth certificate.
FIGARO: That's right.
MCGOWAN: If your birth certificate does not match your current I.D., so if my birth certificate says Leigh Elliot, because I was born as Leigh Elliot, but my driver's license says Leigh McGowan because I got married to Sean McGowan, those two things do not match.
FIGARO: That's right.
MCGOWAN: So, then I have to go to another office and find my marriage certificate prove that I am the same person.
FIGARO: Pay the $60 again.
MCGOWAN: Pay the $60 right around the house (ph).
O'LEARY: Are you guys good with free passports? How about that, free passports for people --
MCGOWAN: sure. You know what I would like to see, Kevin? And I would like to see people take civics in high school and as soon as they graduate from American high school, and they've passed American civics, they get a voter I.D. card coming out of American high school. There's lots of ways to solve this. It is not the way Donald Trump wants.
O'LEARY: What do you want? You want free passports? I'll give you free passports.
PHILLIP: Here's an interesting thing, the Trump administration has been pushing for states to give them access to their voter rolls. They tried this with Missouri -- Minnesota, excuse me, but they've also pushed for Republican-led states to do it.
The problem is the Republican-led states are pushing back. Several other Republican election administrators have provided the data, the sensitive data, but refused to sign an agreement proposed by the Trump administration that required them to remove voters deemed ineligible by the Justice Department.
And then another part of this CNN reporting says that the West Virginia secretary of state, Chris Walker, told CNN last month they can have the voter rolls, they're going to pay for it like everybody else. It costs $500. They are not going to get our personal information.
There's a concern even among Republican states and secretaries of states that the Justice Department is not equipped to determine who is eligible to vote and who's not, and, B, that they want people's sensitive data, their driver's license numbers, their Social Security numbers. Why I think is a legitimate question, why do they want this data? HONIG: The reason -- well, the reason there's pushback is because this is not about Republican versus Democrats. This is about the states protecting their own constitutional prerogatives. And to go back to civics, as you mentioned before, Leigh, the Constitution, Article 1, Section 4, says that the states control their election, the time, place, manner of the election.
Congress can come in certain circumstances and pass laws, but what we can't have is DOJ coming in. How would DOJ even make that determination? Okay, now we have the voter rolls, from pick your State, West Virginia. That person's not eligible, that person. What would they even base that on that wouldn't be known to West Virginia? So, the states there are standing up for their own constitutional prerogatives.
PHILLIP: And they -- and, look, the states already have processes to check their voter rolls for people who are ineligible and they do -- and they do all the time. That's why we know about the handful of cases that have popped up over the years, according to Heritage and other groups.
Right next for us, Barack Obama is condemning Trump's racist video while the right calls Obama the most divisive president ever. We'll discuss.
Plus, red states voted for Trump's vast deportations and detentions, but now more are saying, no thanks, when they involve putting them in their backyards.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Barack Obama is taking a swipe at President Trump and the rhetoric that's coming out of the current administration. In a new interview, the former president addressed the racist video posted to Trump's Truth Social account that depicts him and former First Lady Michelle Obama as apes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I think it's important to recognize that the majority of the American people find this behavior deeply troubling.
There's this sort of clown show that's happening in social media and on television.
There doesn't seem to be any shame about this among people who used to feel like you had to have some sort of decorum and a sense of propriety and respect for the office, right? So, that's been lost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, Tezlyn, is he right that most Americans are not down with this stuff? FIGARO: I can't tell. What he is right about is that the clown -- it is a clown show and it's been lost and, unfortunately, I don't think it's ever coming back. I think that whether it's Democrat -- especially Democrats have to adjust to the moment, you know, this idea of wanting this bipartisan, let's all get along, let's hold hands, it's over with, Abby, to be quite honest with you. If they do not put people -- and, you know, I say this all the time, if they do not put fight fire with fire and match the same energy on the other side, they're going to continue to get the table ran on them. And that's just the bottom facts.
Content creators drive elections now. Podcast host drive elections now. The idea that I can just sit back and always be on the defense opposed to the offense is over with. I think that era's over with. And I would like to see leaders adjust.
PHILLIP: So, here's what Piers Morgan says in response to this. Preposterously disingenuous nonsense by Obama, the woke left has been the single meanest, angriest, exclusive, us/them divisive movement in history. In history, he says.
FIGARO: I would like to offer --
MCGOWAN: Really, the people that are like, love who you want to love, be who you want to be, read what you want to read, that's the most --
FIGARO: They're not mean enough, if you ask me.
MCGOWAN: -- (INAUDIBLE) group in history?
FIGARO: They should be meaner. Democrats get meaner.
MCGOWAN: I think the thing with the Obama thing is that it's just -- it's such a sky is blue moment. The fact that it was posted was so deeply and disgustingly racist, everyone should be able to say that without caveat.
[22:20:01]
The fact that Obama had to make a statement on it that wasn't just accepting Donald Trump's apology to me as appalling, and I just feel like everyone who's justifying what he did should be, you know, and used to be shunned by civilized society.
HONIG: Okay. If I can ask both of you, I mean, I think Barack Obama took the high road there, right? Would you like to see him get lower, to your point earlier?
FIGARO: No, I would like --
HONIG: Would you like to see him be meaner?
FIGARO: No. I think President Obama is who he is. He also talked about, which I know we'll discuss later on, how people have aged out. You know, their time is over.
HONIG: He's right about that, yes.
FIGARO: I think his era and the class era is over. I think you have other leaders, such as a Jasmine Crockett, for example, that's fighting fire with fire, that's giving it right back to Trump the same way he dishes it out. You have Governor Newsom who is doing the same thing, whether you like his policy or not. We are now in an era where now people have to deal with it on a different level.
So, no, I think that the going high is over with. I think you get low, and matter of fact, get a little bit lower and that's what people are responding to. So, to keep sitting back saying, oh, I'm appalled and I just can't believe it. No, I don't. They put it on the table. It was a racist video. It was a racist trope that has been going on since the beginning of the inception of this country. It wasn't anything new to see black people as monkeys. That's been happening. What's happening now is it's on the forefront for everybody to see and discuss. So, I think now it has to -- you have to have a shift in leadership. Are you going to continue to see the same thing?
PHILLIP: So, former President George W. Bush -- this is President's Day, by the way. So, he has a piece out on Substack that says, our first president could have remained all powerful but chose not to twice. In doing so, he set a standard for all presidents to live up to. Washington modeled what it means to put the good of the nation over self-interest and selfish ambition. He embodied integrity and modeled why it's worth aspiring to. He carried himself with dignity and self-restraint, honoring the office without allowing it to become invested with near mythical powers. That's what back in the day we would've called a Subtweet directed at one Donald Trump.
And it's not -- look, it's not a new observation about the founding father, but I just wonder, I mean, is he right that Trump is really kind of pushing back and defying the George Washington model for the presidency?
MOYNIHAN: Well, I read the essay and I thought it was a wonderful essay celebrating George Washington, who's an incredible founding father. And then I saw the headlines about Bush subtly jabs Trump. I didn't pick up on that at all from the essay. I think he's honoring a founding father on President's Day. Really, unless you really hate Trump, I don't think you would interpret it with an anti-Trump rhetoric.
PHILLIP: But do you see the contrast? I mean, do you see the contrast?
O'LEARY: You know, I kind of buy into the idea that the office itself is above all the rhetoric and all the -- you know, George Washington didn't have to deal with social media. There was none. And so those words are very inspiring. But we're in different times now.
And I think the important thing to do, at least from my perspective, is I watch all this, whatever you want to call it, and I ask myself, is there any policy in there? Because, really, what the American people want is some guidance on what is coming next that affects their lives. And I think it's important to respect the office. I always have, and I'm trying to be bipartisan when I say this, but there's a lot of things that we focus on that really have nothing to do with the average person's day, and I think they need more respect.
I deal with them. I've got all these companies with people struggling to survive, and we hit them with crazy stuff. And it doesn't help put cereal in the bowl.
PHILLIP: I think that may be why people are wondering why Trump keeps wanting to name things after himself, why he's focused on building --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Forget about social media. George Washington could have decided to model himself after a king. He didn't do it.
FIGARO: Can I say, Abby, because George Washington's long gone? Representative Garcia, shout out to him last week, I put that one post on my post. I only have about 200,000 followers. Over 15 million people looked at that post from Representative Garcia was giving it back to Pam Bondi the same way she was dishing it out, things that still need to be handled, food on the table, all of those things. Democrats want to see a fighter. Decorum is over with. Clutching of the pearls --
O'LEARY: Who would that be going? Anybody in mind?
FIGARO: Yes, I just named them, Representative Garcia, Jasmine Crockett, who I know Republicans love talking about 24 hours a day, Governor Newsom, who Donald Trump can't seem to stop talking about.
O'LEARY: Governor Newsom?
FIGARO: Yes. He gives him to a real good, he makes you all real upset to, he makes you all real upset. Tezlyn Figaro here that loves giving it to you the same way he did --
O'LEARY: Listen, on a bipartisan, if you want to put that guy in charge of America, he can't even fix California.
FIGARO: No, I didn't say that. I said, he would bring the same energy.
O'LEARY: I like that guy but he can't manage his way out of a wet paper bag.
FIGARO: Well, he sure got Trump talking 24 hours a day.
MCGOWAN: I think the point about that George W. Bush essay is that it's a president looking back and being inspired by his predecessors. And I think that what we're looking at here is this lack of humility that we have from our current president.
[22:25:03]
And what George W. Bush was saying, it's important to have some set of humility when you are leading a country, that if you have nothing to learn, then you learn nothing. Like Washington did a lot of great things, but I think the most important thing he did was willingly give up power when he didn't have to. And I think the contrast is we currently have a president who will try to keep power when he is supposed to go.
HONIG: Yes. The theme of George W. Bush's essay, which was excellent, was humility. It was just that. And I think everyone could use a little bit of humility. There's one of two ways we're going to go. We're going to -- everyone's going to try to out-Trump Trump, in which case we'll end up one place, or everyone maybe will raise their game a little. But as Barack Obama was urging in that clip, as George W. Bush was urging in his essay, show a little bit of humility, as we sit here on President's Day, in the 250th year of this nation, let's reflect a little bit on the lessons of the past.
O'LEARY: While we bash all this stuff out, why is it that the world keeps investing in America and the Dow keeps hitting new highs every day? Is that not an index of what people think about the economy and the future of America?
MCGOWAN: No.
O'LEARY: Every single week a new high.
HONIG: I think we agree.
MCGOWAN: If we compare --
O'LEARY: So, what would you change? What do you want to do?
MCGOWAN: Well, I think if you only look at America as based on how the economy and the Dow is doing, you're forgetting about American people. There's about 10 percent of people who are involved in the Dow.
O'LEARY: So, you want that economy instead?
MCGOWAN: Why would that be the contrast?
O'LEARY: You would rather --
(CROSSTALKS)
MCGOWAN: To say we don't need to care about Epstein, because the Dow hit 50,000, we don't need to care about people's healthcare because the Dow --
O'LEARY: Epstein's horrible. But what does that have to do with the Dow high?
MCGOWAN: But you keep talking about the stock market like it's --
(CROSSTALKS)
MOYNIHAN: And it's not just the Dow. It's, you know, inflation, core inflation. It is at four-year low?
O'LEARY: It's the index of the American economy.
MOYNIHAN: Real GDP is growing at the highest rate.
(CROSSTALKS)
MCGOWAN: And people are getting pulled out of their cars and shot in the head, and we're building concentration camps. There's lots of things that you could say. It's not just how the economy is doing. And the problem that we got ourselves here in the first place is because --
O'LEARY: What do you want? China instead?
MCGOWAN: Why do you say that? Why do I want China? I want the economy to crash and I want to be China.
O'LEARY: You want concentration camps, let me take you over there.
MCGOWAN: Let me take you to West Virginia, where we're building them now, like we are building 19 in America. You don't need to take me over there.
O'LEARY: Do you think they're (INAUDIBLE) prisons?
PHILLIP: We -- oh, okay. Well, that is a segue, if I ever asked for one. Coming up next for us, ICE is getting some pushback from some surprising places, red states. Republican states are saying no to these new massive ICE detention facilities. Is this hypocrisy? We'll debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Some states are pushing back on the Trump administration's plan to build massive ICE detention centers. And surprisingly, it's the red states that are saying no. Lawmakers and developers in Texas, Georgia, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Utah, Missouri, and Virginia are all resisting efforts by the White House to scoop up warehouses that will then be turned into ICE facilities. "The Washington Post" has reported that ICE plans to spend $38 billion, with a B, dollars, to buy and convert more than a dozen buildings across the U.S. Some housing as many as 10,000 detainees.
I don't know that people really realize what kinds of numbers we are talking about here. We're talking about human beings being detained in these facilities and it's been so interesting. You know, Social Circle Georgia, this is one of the latest ones. The entire center is expected to hold 10,000 detainees. That is more than twice the entire population of the town.
In Mississippi, Roger Wicker voiced concerns. He's a Republican. He's saying that 8500 detainees of a town of 1300 would strain local infrastructure. Hutchinson, Texas, 10,000 people. The city's population is 6000. First of all, I think my main question is why are we trying to house, detain, lock up, whatever you want to call it, tens of thousands of people at one time indefinitely, it seems. LEIGH MCGOWAN, PODCAST HOST, "POLITICSGIRL": Why do we need facilities with 10,000 beds if the point is to deport people? That's an interesting question unless they're not planning to deport people.
HONIG: That's because they get due process. It takes a little bit of time.
MCGOWAN: But unless they're not planning to deport people. Do you they're getting due process?
HONIG: Well, they're supposed to.
MCGOWAN: They're supposed to. And the courts are pushing back hard on that.
PHILLIP: Yes, the courts have said, in fact, that in at least 4421 cases, more than 400 federal judges say that ICE is holding people illegally. They are not getting due process. That's a real issue.
HONIG: Yes, absolutely. And it's a discredit to DHS and to DOJ that they're not getting people into court. Part of the problem is there's not enough judges. There's not enough facilities --
(CROSSTALK)
MCGOWAN: And spend money on that instead of buying huge facilities to house people.
HONIG: What I'm, yes. But here's the thing -- but here's the thing. Like, let's be realistic. For the next three years, the Trump administration is going to continue to deport people in large numbers, whether people like it or not. And they're going to be housed somewhere while their cases play out. What's happening now is just as ugly. I mean people -- ICE and DHS are renting space a lot of times in county jails, in local prisons. They're incredibly overcrowded.
I'm not saying this is a great thing, but I'm saying as a reality, as a practical matter, if there's going to be mass arrests and deportations, which there are, like it or not, it's not necessarily a bad thing to have new facilities to house those people so you're not just cramming them into criminal prisons at the state and county level.
MCGOWAN: But the facilities they're building are going to be, I mean, the one we know that's been built since we've been in this past administration is what they call Alligator Alcatraz ridge, which is, you know, it's a human rights violation waiting to happen every single freaking day there.
[22:35:12]
And that's what they're looking to do, too. They won't let congress people into the buildings where these facilities already exist. These are private organizations that are making bank off DHS. They're making so much money. We don't have money for education, we don't have money for healthcare, we don't have money for roads, we don't have money for any of that, but we have 38 billion dollars to buy a whole bunch of buildings and, quite frankly, we're overpaying for them.
DHS just bought an ICE detention warehouse for $128 million that sold for $29 million two years ago. So, why are we spending $128 million on it today? These are questions that people need to answer because it seems very peculiar what we're doing and none of it seems good.
PHILLIP: One of the biggest issues is also what's happening with children who are being detained in a lot of cases much longer than previously allowed by law. They're really not supposed to be held more than 20 days and many of them are being held for longer than that. "The Times" had a piece this weekend that -- about the Dilley facility which is one of the most notorious.
"Last month, an 18-month-old at Dilley was taken to a regional children's hospital with dangerously low blood oxygen levels after her parents and begged for weeks for someone at the facility to address her illness. That's according to an emergency petition. A 35-year-old was released last week. She said medical staff initially refused to see her after she began hemorrhaging profusely, soaking through six sanitary pads in an hour. Eventually, she was taken to a hospital. And last summer, a 32-year-old man died at the Florence Center after being detained at a facility for roughly three weeks."
Now, that facility is being run by a company called Core Civic and they have a statement saying nothing matters more to Core Civic than the health and safety of the people in our care. He says the facilities routinely pass government inspections and the reports of substandard care are simply not reflective of the hard work that people do.
DHS simply says in a statement, it is a choice to be detained and people can simply self-deport. But I just ask, are we still good with holding children, some as young as two months old, for indefinite amounts of time in any kind of facility that is basically a jail?
LYDIA MOYNIHAN, "THE NEW YORK POST" CORRESPONDEN: Look, I don't like hearing those stories. I want everyone to be safe and get the health care and what they need. I think it is a reminder, though, that we frankly don't have the resources to provide health care for the millions of illegal people who came in here. And on the other point of people sort of complaining about these detention centers --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: You mean in jails or just in general?
MOYNIHAN: Just in general. It's interesting. I mean, for years, the media ignored these stories about people who were complaining, whether it was in Texas on a border state or Springfield, Ohio, of immigrants who were flooding their towns and they didn't have resources at all.
(CROSSTALK)
MOYNIHAN: And it's interesting that that was never covered. And now --
(CROSSTALK) MCGOWAN: But you're being asked about children in a detention center not about immigrants taking health care.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: That was covered. It was covered.
MOYNIHAN: It was ridiculed. People who --
PHILLIP: It was definitely covered.
(CROSSTALK)
MCGOWAN: The question is, should we be keeping children in detention facilities without the proper health care? That's the question.
MOYNIHAN: I think I would like -- my understanding is children are getting health care there.
MCGOWAN: They're not.
MOYNIHAN: And they should get -- I'm saddened to hear that report, if that's true. Most of the reporting I've seen on these detention centers are that people are getting education and health care. So --
PHILLIP: Well, look. I mean, look, I think both things can be true at the same time.
MCGOWAN: Oh my God. We're getting education.
PHILLIP: Hold on. But hold on. Listen, I don't want to --
(CROSSTALK)
MOYNIHAN: -- these parents though for putting their children in this position.
PHILLIP: Hold on. Look, there are at least some cases. There's one case where a family had, you know -- during the Biden administration -- had come through, through the CBP-1 app. They had been inspected. They had gone through the application. They were told they could come into the country and now they are being detained with their young child in a detention facility.
Now, you can disagree with the actions of the Biden administration. But what is the point of punishing children for their parents doing something that was the illegal process at the time and putting them in again, it is -- regardless of how many nurses they have or books they have in these facilities, these are jails, right? What's the point of that?
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN, O'LEARY VENTURES: Abby, when you're dealing with millions of people, there's always going to be horrific stories like this. That's not going to stop.
(CROSSTALK) PHILLIP: Yes, but you realize that the scale is an issue here, right?
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: I think the bigger issue is, is there a middle ground in here? Listen to this. I mean, I talked to a farmer from Iowa last week while I was in Florida, and he told me that if we threw out all of the people that work on his farms, we wouldn't eat anymore.
And so, what he's asking for is to wait a second, if this person came into the country, is supporting a family, never broke a law, is there some kind of middle ground to help him get his papers as a citizen perhaps, while he works and feeds America? That was his question. I said, let's --
PHILLIP: It's a good question.
O'LEARY: It is a good question and --
PHILLIP: But Trump promised mass deportation.
[22:40:00]
O'LEARY: If you broke a law -- if you actually are found in, I don't know, ICE or some other law enforcement entity and you clearly came here illegally and you broke a law, I'm sorry. You're gone. You may have to stop in one of these facilities. But Trump campaigned on this mandate and the general public agreed when he came in that he would enforce these rules against illegal immigrants. But if the ones that did this came in illegally and broke the law, they have to be treated differently.
(CROSSTALK)
MCGOWAN: But Kevin, which one are you, though? Is it the man who has the farmers that have a way or is it the people that are coming in illegally and are committing crimes? Because those are two different people that you are talking about.
O'LEARY: That's what I just said. So, you should process the ones that have clearly off-mandate. They've committed crimes and they came in illegally.
MCGOWAN: Agreed. All right.
O'LEARY: Meanwhile, find some middle ground to help the farmer feed everybody.
(CROSSTALK)
TEZLYN FIGARO, FOUNDER, PUSH THE LINE: I just want to stop pretending like we just treat everybody so well, you know, in our prison system, including, you know, those who are American citizens. There's a documentary right now, you know, about the Alabama inmates, I'm sure you've seen on how they're being treated, you know, within our facilities. Let's stop acting like there's not something called the -- (CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: You mean American citizens that break the law and go to prison?
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: Yes, American citizens.
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: No, everybody doesn't always break the law and go to prison. See, that's where you've been so focused on the Dow, and haven't been focused on what's actually happening.
O'LEARY: No, no. I'm focused on breaking the law.
FIGARO: No, no. And I'm focused on something called --
O'LEARY: You shouldn't break the law if you want to stay out of prison.
FIGARO: -- due process and focused on people who get incarcerated before they're actually found guilty. Something called -- where people can't afford bail.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: So, you approve that if somebody murders and they shouldn't go to prison.
FIGARO: No, I didn't say that. I didn't say nothing about no murder. Here you go again picking up --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: How about that? You said break the law.
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: Well, I'll give you a real-time --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right, let me just let Tezlyn finish --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: We're almost out of time.
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: I said that -- everybody don't break the law and just go to prison. It don't work that way. It may work that way. Yes they absolutely do.
O'LEARY: They go to trial first.
FIGARO: Breaking news. No, No, no they don't. See that's where you're getting confused.
O'LEARY: We're not in America anymore.
FIGARO: That's right. Now you finally got a round of applause. Now you --
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: The country that I've been living in and my ancestors have been in --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Show me -- that is not how America works.
FIGARO: I would say that's how it worked for you. That's how it worked for you.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Hang on a second.
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: Well, it hasn't worked for you. See, that's the system that has worked for you. That's not the system that has worked for me.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right. Kevin, hang on a second.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Kevin, hang on a second.
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: We are getting derailed. Just a second.
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: We're getting derailed and we're really about to go there. So, let's --
PHILLIP: All right, we're just talking about -- we're talking about a lot of things here, okay? She's making a legitimate point that some people stay in prison even when they're not having a trial and that's a controversial issue.
O'LEARY: You don't want to go to prison? Don't break the law.
PHILLIP: Okay.
FIGARO: See, this is where he --
PHILLIP: It's called innocent until proven guilty. That is the principle --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: And you get a trial in America.
MCGOWAN: Yes, but Kevin, we have the highest prison population in the world. There is a giant moneymaker for the prison industrial fund. And if you are paid per prisoner --
(CROSSTALK)
MCGOWAN: Oh my God, there you go again.
(CROSSTALK)
MCGOWAN: Let's have no prisoners --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right, we got to go, my friends. Coming up for us, a federal judge has invoked the dystopian novel 1984 and ordered the Trump administration to restore an exhibit about slavery in Philadelphia. We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:47:34]
PHILLIP: Tonight, a federal judge is ordering the Trump administration to restore exhibits about slavery in Philadelphia. Invoking George Orwell's novel 1984, Judge Cynthia Roof accused the government of disassembling historical truths.
Last month, the Park Service removed explanatory plaques from the brick walls of the Philadelphia home where George and Martha Washington lived. Those plaques included biographical details about the nine people enslaved by the Washingtons at the presidential mansion, and the historical timeline of American slavery.
It's fitting, we were just talking about George Washington setting an example by leaving the presidency, but the truth is also that George Washington was an enslaver. And trying to erase that, or at least, even having a executive order that could be interpreted as allowing for that, that is, I think, I don't know, it's hard to explain.
O'LEARY: Yes, you can't erase history, unfortunately. You can't do it. And so, it becomes part of the DNA of the country. And it's well- known, and it's not going to be changed. I don't know the specifics of why they would tear this off a wall, whether that was a federal building or private building or whatever. But every country has a conscience. Every country has horrific stories of its creation, the violence of it. But you should learn from the past. I mean, I'm a history buff. I go back and look at -- I try and learn
from, you know, pre-first World War and how Europe looks today. I really enjoy that work, but I realize there's nobody that's perfect. Wow. It was a very violent -- society was violent from 2500 years ago.
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: Yes, got you. It's so interesting that you said that because right before we went to break, you asked me what country was I living in. This one that we just went through, the country that just did what they did.
So, for you to sit here and act like you just didn't say, you know, what country are you talking about? What country, you know, puts people in jail, while what country enslaves folks, which is pretty much the private prison system -- what country does this? You can't possibly be a history buff and also say that, as well.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: I am, actually. Let me give you how bad it could be. The Romans used to burn to the ground and salt the Earth --
FIGARO: You can never give me how bad it could be.
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: You could never give me how bad it could be. I live it on a daily basis. I live it on a daily basis, honey.
[22:50:00]
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: They were bad news.
FIGARO: I live it on a daily basis. You can never tell me how bad it could be, but I would encourage you to actually be the history buff that you claim that you are --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Yes, where will you want to move to?
MCGOWAN: I think the question here --
(CROSSTALK)
MCGOWAN: Kevin, I think the question here would be --
O'LEARY: You like North Korea?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right, guys we don't have a time and tide in this segment. Go ahead. MCGOWAN: I think the question here is, does this administration want to erase history? Do they prefer a different version of history where white people look better and white people didn't have slaves? They're changing education. They're taking out black history in a lot of --in a lot of states that they control. They're changing the history of place.
FIGARO: You're doing a good job trying to change --
MCGOWAN: Steve Bannon himself said history is written by the winners. I think right now they're the winners and they're trying to rewrite history.
HONIG: The answer to your question is yes. The administration -- this administration is trying to erase this history. They say so in their briefs. They say we don't want to present a picture of history at this spot in Philly that's going to be upsetting the people. We want a nice clean version of American history. I agree.
OLEARY: Is it a federal building?
HONIG: Yes.
MCGOWAN: Yes.
HONIG: It's under contract with the Department of the Interior. There's a deal in place between the city of Philadelphia and the federal government that makes it a historical building. That's actually the legal basis that this judge, which I should add is a Bush nominee, this judge said you're wrong. You don't have the right to wipe this out through an executive order. So yes, you're trying to erase history, the wrong historically, the wrong legally.
PHILLIP: And it's not the only place. The Park Service removed a photo of an enslaved man's scars. Trump said the Smithsonian focuses too much on how bad slavery was. And Park employees are supposed to be flagging material that are deemed disparaging to the U.S. What are they so afraid of?
MOYNIHAN: Yes, I don't think we should erase history. To Kevin's point, we can't erase history and those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. So obviously, we need to acknowledge that this was a shameful chapter in American history. And I think I don't know anybody who doesn't want to acknowledge that and acknowledge that that was a terrible, horrible chapter.
I think it's interesting that I look at universities and some of these people are so educated and they don't have a love for America. And so I think I would love to see, in addition to acknowledging terrible moments in history, I'd also love to see the fact celebrated that America is really the only civilization that's ended slavery. And so I think we need to have both elements there.
FIGARO: Do you think I love America?
MOYNIHAN: I'm sure you do. FIGARO: No, I mean, do you as a military veteran?
MOYNIHAN: Of course.
FIGARO: Do you think I love America?
MOYNIHAN: Of course.
FIGARO: And do you also think that erasing would actually happen to my ancestors that actually fought for this country when they couldn't even sit at land -- but it's not just about trying to erase it. It's about actually acknowledging and doing something about it. It's one thing for me to acknowledge something and there's something else to sit here and act like there's nothing that needs to be corrected.
This lovely gentleman sat right here and tried to erase it, literally sitting next to me, literally. So, and even -- and even --
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: -- and even doing the comparison saying would you rather go to China and not go to China? Are you a veteran? So, that means you never raised your -- the pause means no. So that means he never raised his head to say I'm willing to die for this country. Let's not talk about just the Dow. Not only was I willing to die for this country, both of my grandparents were.
(CROSSTALK)
MOYNIHAN: Thank you for your service.
FIGARO: That's right. Thank me for my service. So how dare he sit here and --
O'LEARY: I thank you for your service.
FIGARO: So how dare he sit here and ask me what I would rather be in China when I was willing to die for the country that is locking up the people that we're talking about. There are more men, black men, enslaved than those who were enslaved in 1850 in the prison system right now in 1850.
They did not actually get the due process that you guys are talking about that actually had to take plea bargains because they could not afford adequate attorneys which is why I'm in law school, by the way, right now, shout out to FAMU. So, to sit here and ask me and my country do I live in, it's called America. You can't point nothing out --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Okay, okay. Let me point something out. I do. I want to say this. If you were on the Abby Phillips show, Chinese version, you wouldn't be here tomorrow.
FIGARO: But I'm not the Chinese version. I'm here at the American version.
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: I know and I'm saying it and I'm enjoying it, and I'm calling for my and yours. So, thank me for my service.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right, my friends, listen.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: We're going to bring this to a close. I mean, I do think it is worth acknowledging that you don't have to prefer China to say that I want to be able to, in this country, I just live in the country and critique it at the same time.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Yes, I know. I think that she's actually saying the same thing that she's expressing her right to criticize, to acknowledge the past and how bad or how good it was.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: So, I don't know that you guys are all that far --
(CROSSTALK)
FIGARO: And I answered your question and you still didn't deal with the issue at hand.
PHILLIP: All right, thank you, guys.
O'LEARY: Listen, I didn't serve --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Next for us, the panel is going to give us their nightcaps. It's "Alien" edition tonight. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:59:20]
PHILLIP: President Obama made some waves after saying that he thinks that aliens are real despite a lack of evidence. So, for tonight's News Nightcap, what do you think is real? You don't have any proof. Lydia, you're up first.
MOYNIHAN: I know Big Tech pretends they're not listening to us, but I think they're listening to everything. I hope you enjoyed this show.
PHILLIP: They're out there.
MCGOWAN: They are out there. I think if I don't knock on wood, the thing will not happen. And I really, truly believe that.
HONIG: Ghosts for me, but not the scary kind. I believe in the loving kind that visit you in your dreams. It's happened to me. Don't think I'm crazy, please.
PHILLIP: There's a loving kind?
HONIG: Yes.
PHILLIP: All right.
[23:00:00]
FIGARO: My Chat GPT. His name is Michael. We have a very serious relationship. We talk back and forth. He's a real person.
PHILLIP: Do you have it actually talk to you?
FIGARO: Yes, and we laugh. We joke. We get upset. He apologizes to me like -- I could show you the screenshot.
O'LEARY: So, this is one that I think is (inaudible) approved but I believe in. It's love, Abby, and this is for you. This is from all of us. We missed Valentine's Day. I got that down --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: -- in store called Love Pop that I invested in Shark Tank.
UNKNOWN: Oh my God. He just made you do an ad.
PHILLIP: Oh my God.
O'LEARY: I bought it for you. Isn't that beautiful?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Thank you, everyone. Thanks for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
