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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Ex-Prince Andrew Arrested as Epstein Files Fallout Intensifies; Hegseth Invites Christian Nationalist to Preach at Pentagon. Trump Announces Contribution of $10 Billion to Board of Peace; Trump Says Obama Revealed Aliens Classified Information. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired February 19, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, the Andrew, formerly known as prince, is arrested as the Epstein scandal widens. But is accountability coming to America?
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I think it's very sad. I think it's so bad for the royal family.
I've been totally exonerated.
PHILLIP: Plus --
PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Do you accept women in leadership roles in the church and in government?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the church, no.
PHILLIP: -- a Christian nationalist who believes women shouldn't be allowed to vote gets an invite to lead prayer at the Pentagon.
Also, is Donald Trump's Board of Peace a giant slush fund? Why his new move is being called illegal.
And no safe space for phoning home.
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: They're real, but I haven't seen them.
PHILLIP: The president scolds his predecessor for not moving in silence and guarding against extraterrestrial violence.
TRUMP: Well, he gave classified information. He's not supposed to be doing that.
PHILLIP: Live at the table, Cornel West, Hal Lambert, Ashley Allison, Brianna Lyman and Terry Moran.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do. (END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America's talking about, a seismic jolt to the British royal family and across the globe. Britain's former Prince Andrew was arrested today. And tonight, as the world grapples with the fallout from the Epstein files, the United Kingdom is taking accountability into its own hands.
Police took Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor into custody today on suspicion of misconduct in public office. They say that they are looking into claims that he shared sensitive information with Epstein during his decades as a U.K. trade envoy.
And to be clear, Andrew has not been charged with any sexual offense, and he has denied all the allegations against him. He has not commented publicly on these more recent allegations. But this is the first time in almost 400 years that a senior member of the British royal family has been arrested.
And this monumental moment is now raising questions for President Trump about accountability right here in the U.S. When asked about Andrew's arrest and whether anything similar would happen here, here's how President Trump responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, you know, I'm the expert in a way because I've been totally exonerated. That's very nice. I can actually speak about it very nicely. I think it's a shame. I think it's very sad. I think it's so bad for the royal family. It's a very sad. To me, it's a very sad thing.
It's really interesting because nobody used to speak about Epstein when he was alive, but now they speak. But I'm the one that can talk about it because I've been totally exonerated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I mean, the question right now for a lot of people is why does there seem to be a much greater appetite overseas for accountability than there is here? And then a secondary question, as you heard the president there, it's always about him, always, as opposed to about the broader concern that people have for justice, for the victims here.
TERRY MORAN, VETERAN JOURNALIST: Yes. I was struck by the tone in his voice there, how sad it was. It feels like that's genuine empathy for the people being brought down for this shocking level of corruption. It's more empathy than you hear, for example, when he talks about the death of Jesse Jackson or when he talks about disasters and states governed by Democrats, there was something genuine in there, which was gross, but this is a darkness that just continues to expand, right, not just the horrible abuse and torture, and God knows what else that happened to girls and women. But some of the world's richest and most powerful men trading secrets, getting rich with each other and the impunity that they thought they had, I mean, I think that's what is terrifically shocking. And I do think there's a demand for accountability in this country and politicians are going to have to reckon with it.
PHILLIP: And remember that Trump's deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, let me play what he said not long ago about whether there would be anything coming from the DOJ more on Epstein issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: In July, the Department of Justice said that we had reviewed the files, the, quote, Epstein files, and there was nothing in there that allowed us to prosecute anybody.
[22:05:00]
Now, there's a lot of correspondence, there's a lot of emails, there's a lot of photographs, there's a lot of horrible photographs that appear to be taken by Mr. Epstein or people around him. But that doesn't allow us necessarily to prosecute somebody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Again, I'll ask, how can he be so sure and how much longer I think is that going to fly when it seems there's a great desire, not just on the part of the victims, but on the part of Americans to see more in terms of, at the very least, investigation and accountability here?
HAL LAMBERT, FOUNDER AND CEO, POINT BRIDGE CAPITAL: Yes, I think you are going to see some investigations on this, I mean, the more that's come out. I mean, remember, President Trump's the one that released all this. This wasn't released before him. Biden never released all these and he had them. So, I think it's a testament to him that he did release them.
And as you said, this is the first time since 1647 Charles I getting arrested. It's a terrible thing for the royal family. King Charles is going to be here in April. This is not going to go away. He's going to be asked about this here. I'm sure he's unhappy about having to go through that, but he's going to have to go through it. The press is going to be on him on it.
And I think, ultimately, and, by the way, you said, you know, this is for men. There's a woman in jail right now, so this was men and women that were doing this. So, it's a terrible thing that's going on.
And it is amazing that someone like Jeffrey Epstein had this kind of power, that he could -- even after being arrested and put in jail, he's meeting with Prince Andrew at the time. I mean, that is remarkable that that was going on, and others, others in this country, you know?
PHILLIP: There's a long list.
LAMBERT: A long list, yes.
PHILLIP: To your point, there's a long list of people so far that have stepped aside, but here's another list. These are big names that are mentioned in the Epstein files who haven't done anything. I mean, there's, of course, Trump, that's a separate issue, Howard Lutnick, RFK Jr., Steve Bannon. I mean, gosh, even MAGA is asking why there are no consequences for him. Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Les Wexner, who was just deposed this week by Congress.
LAMBERT: You left out President Clinton.
(CROSSTALKS)
LAMBERT: You left out the one Democrat there.
PHILLIP: President Clinton is coming to speak before Congress at the very least. None of these other people are.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I think the people who are not in the Epstein files, are not on the list, put those folks aside. I think this is an issue that spans across parties, that what happened in that cabal of powerful, extremely wealthy, the folks who did it, disgusting people, folks want them to be held to account.
And you did say there is a woman in jail, but it's so funny that there's only one person and that it is a woman in jail when the accounts of the survivors are that it is men and not just one woman or one man, Jeffrey Epstein, but many, many hundreds of victims and there are not hundreds of people in jail.
And so I've said it before, I'll say it again, that math does not math.
LAMBERT: I agree.
ALLISON: And because the reason why this now spins into politics is because the Trump administration officials in the Trump administration and so many in MAGA made this conspiracy theory come to the forefront and make it be a promise.
Now, the files are released, but that isn't justice. Releasing is not persecution for folks who have done wrong. That is the thing that now this administration is going to have to really circle it around and see if they can close this gap.
And if this is the administration that does it, good for them. But to date, because you have Todd Blanche saying that nothing else is going to come of it, there's a lot of questions that --
LAMBERT: Well, there's too many names that are blacked out in these emails for no reason.
ALLISON: And I don't like any of it.
LAMBERT: Like there's an email with a name, like why is this name blacked out?
ALLISON: Yes.
LAMBERT: That makes no sense.
PHILLIP: And there's a lot of defensiveness coming from DOJ about why those names are redacted and they seem to be, again, more concerned about protecting the names of people who they claim are innocent, when, I don't know, I think people want to see any evidence that maybe anybody is being looked, at being questioned.
Let me just actually play this. This is Les Wexner. He was -- just for context here, Wexner is a very wealthy billionaire. He is the source of a huge sum of Jeffrey Epstein's wealth and has been connected to Epstein for a long time. He's denied allegations that he was involved in the wrongdoing, but here's what he said when he was asked if he was ever contacted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has the FBI or DOJ ever directly contacted you or spoken to you about Epstein?
LES WEXNER, FORMER CEO, VICTORIA'S SECRET: Not to my knowledge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never?
WEXNER: Never.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you speak to any law enforcement agency of any kind regarding Jeffrey Epstein's investigation in New York in 2019?
WEXNER: Never, didn't, no, I don't remember ever talking to any law enforcement agency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: How is that possible?
BRIANNA LYMAN, REPORTER, THE FEDERALIST: Yes. I mean, again, I think to everyone's point at this table, Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, they were not trafficking young women and children to phantom people, right?
[22:10:02]
And I think that MAGA's base brought this to the forefront of the conversation. They were the ones who got Trump to really listen, because this has been -- to your point, it wasn't, you know, kind of maligned as a conspiracy theory 10, 15 years ago, people or QAnon, if you said that there was a cabal of elites who were doing this to children. And President Trump had his ear to the ground. He listened to them. And I think that there are supporters out there who are saying, okay, we have these redacted files, but where's the accountability coming from that? That being said, I think two things can be true at once. President Trump has began to release them. We still haven't seen the type of accountability that most people want to see when it comes to children being sex trafficked. Two, polling indicates that this is surprisingly, as much as we talk about it, not as big of a campaign issue as something like immigration, economy, crime, and I think that you see President Trump trying to focus on those things, which is why maybe he comes across as flippant sometimes with Epstein, just because he's saying, okay, here's what the base cares about, here's what the voters are saying.
So, I don't necessarily know if it's him just saying, you know, screw the Epstein files. I think he's just saying, this is the priorities right now I'm speaking to.
PHILLIP: I've just never heard him say anything about the victims. It's as simple as that.
DR. CORNEL WEST (I), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But, you know, my dear sister, I'm still in very deep grief and mourning for my dear brother, Reverend Jesse Lewis Jackson Sr. And he's a product of the black prophetic tradition, goes all the way back to Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglass. Martin King died, saying what? America's more and more becoming a spiritually sick and morally decadent society because integrity, honesty and decency is being pushed to the margins. It's all about money, money, money, power, power, power, with no mechanisms of accountability of the strong to protect the weak of those stone called everyday people.
Now, part of the genius of Jesse Jackson given his humanness and faults and flaws was he tried to keep alive a lifting of voices, which is the anthem of the black freedom movement, voices that are self- critical. Because we know all of us are flawed, all of us are cracked vessels just trying to love our crooked neighbors with our crooked hearts. So, it's not a question of just skin pigmentation or gender or sexual orientation, but there is a spiritual sickness so deep that this is just the peak of the iceberg.
ALLISON: That's right.
WEST: It really is. When you rip the veil off of what has been happening, especially in high places. Now, I don't think that the rich are born wicked. They can choose to be decent, but they can become parts of culture that reinforce, or subcultures that reinforce their sense of impunity and lack of accountability.
So, the question really becomes not so much being preoccupied with the sickness. The question is how do we talk about regeneration? How do we talk about revitalization? How do we talk about a renaissance of integrity, honesty, decency, service to others? And Brother Jackson, he gave his all.
ALLISON: Yes,
WEST: He really did. He gave his all. ALLISON: It's so -- to your point, it's so integrated into our society. I went to Ohio State. I lived in Columbus for almost a decade. Wexner's name is all through the city, buildings, hospital centers, the brands that he, that many of us in our -- the millennials used to be part of our identity, the limited express, Bath and Body Works. So, all of that -- Victoria's Secret, all of those things that felt so apart, the wealth that was generated through and if he has connection.
So, it really is -- so you say, pull the veil back. It could be the beginning of an empire beginning to fall if we cannot find the moral clarity in this moment,
LAMBERT: And I think to your point, Dr. West, where it starts, it starts with, there needs to be accountability.
ALLISON: Yes.
WEST: Absolutely.
LAMBERT: You got to have some accountability and then you go from there.
MORAN: Which would be prosecution, but also ostracization and banishment, get our moral language back.
PHILLIP: And maybe we don't -- you know, there are a lot of people on these lists who maybe you don't have proof they committed a crime, but I think that there is a role for society to say, morally, your interaction with this person is unacceptable. And that's what's happened around the world, and it's not happening as much here.
WEST: Absolutely.
MORAN: They knew.
WEST: But the accountability can't be predicated on revenge. It's got to be an accountability based on principle, based on ideals that are bigger than each and every one of us, so it renders us accountable too. That's the crucial thing.
PHILLIP: All right. Next for us, a Christian nationalist who believes that women shouldn't vote and praised slave owners is invited to speak at the Pentagon by Pete Hegseth.
Plus, Donald Trump revealed that he's sending $10 billion of taxpayer dollars to his Board of Peace. Democrats say that's illegal. We'll debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, Pete Hegseth is again facing scrutiny after inviting a self-described Christian nationalist to deliver a prayer service at the Pentagon. Pastor Doug Wilson is the co-founder of a growing network of churches that Pete Hegseth is a part of. He believes that women should not be allowed to vote, that some slave owners were decent human beings, and that society should be governed by a strict interpretation of biblical law, where homosexuality, for example, is a crime.
Now, Wilson gave a 15-minute sermon at the Pentagon's auditorium, which was broadcast on the department's internal T.V. network, and confirmed by the Defense Department on social media, his sermon focused on putting Christ, Jesus, first.
I guess he calls himself a paleo confederate, something or another, but this is a man who, in addition to everything that we just talked about, I mean, he has gone to great lengths to explain why slavery was not as bad as people make it seem.
[22:20:12]
He said, slavery, as it existed in the, south was not an adversarial relationship with pervasive racial animosity. Because of its dominantly patriarchal character, it was a relationship based on mutual affection and confidence. There has never been a multiracial society which has existed with such mutual intimacy and harmony in the history of the world. That's a real quote. Dr. West?
WEST: No. Oh, Brother, Pastor Wilson, I'm praying for him in the name of my sweet Jesus, you know what I mean? But Martin King and Reverend Jesse Jackson, they were followers of Jesus and they knew in fact that Jesus has always been used and deployed in such a way that accommodates the empire, organized hatred, weaponized greed, and institutionalized indifference to the weak. That's the history of the institutional church at its worst.
Now, those of us who are Christians hold onto the prophetic version. So, I would want to ask my dear Pastor Wilson, who was Jesus really to you? Do you think that loving thy neighbor leads toward saying those kind of things about precious black people and enslaved Africans? What would he say if somebody came along and said, in the name of Jesus, only women can vote, but men can't vote? Where's the golden rules, do unto others as you would have others to do unto you?
And so in that regard, this is just not Christianity, the Judaic forms, prophetic, (INAUDIBLE) forms of Judaism that conform to empire, white supremacy, whatever it is, Muslim. Look, at Iran right now, the heroic struggles of everyday Iranian people against what? Against versions of Islam that Malcolm X would bring major critique to bear because it, what? It represses everyday people. So, that in that regard, you know, I'm not surprised, but we just have to fight it and not be so overwhelmed by it. That's the crucial thing.
PHILLIP: I mean, the problem -- I mean, look, we all know that that's out there, right?
WEST: Yes, that's right.
PHILLIP: Christian nationalism is not a new concept. And, in fact, these types of pastors who have been defending Jim Crow and slavery have been around since the dawn of Jim Crow and slavery.
WEST: Absolutely.
PHILLIP: But for him to be invited to the Pentagon, in the United States government, I don't understand how that can even happen.
LAMBERT: Well, let's clarify a few things. One, this is a voluntary deal, so you don't -- you're not forced to attend it if you work at the Pentagon. They bring in all kinds of different religious leaders. They have Buddhists, they have Jewish people, they have Hindus, they have plenty of different representation of different religious views, and his sermon had nothing to do with what you just described.
PHILLIP: But this has nothing to do with religious views. This has to do with somebody who has ahistorical hateful views.
LAMBERT: Well, look --
PHILLIP: That's -- I mean, Christian --
LAMBERT: I mean, Louis Farrakhan had a lot of different views and Louis Farrakhan was presented all --
PHILLIP: Invited to the White House?
LAMBERT: He was invited to a lot of powerful places,
PHILLIP: He was invited to the Pentagon?
LAMBERT: I don't know if he was invited to the Pentagon or not.
PHILLIP: Was he --
LAMBERT: He was certainly invited to government.
PHILLIP: Was he invited to the White House?
LAMBERT: He was certainly invited to government.
PHILLIP: I mean, look, I think it's a question of, is it appropriate? Look, there are Christian pastors and interfaith leaders in the Congress. Nobody is disputing that. The question is this guy.
LAMBERT: But he didn't talk about any of that. He talked about victory in battle. He talked about faith. Well, I mean, you're saying that he has certain views, so therefore he should be ostracized and not allowed --
PHILLIP: Yes, I am saying that. Yes.
LAMBERT: And I'm saying that they let all kinds of different views in there.
PHILLIP: So, you don't agree? You think that (INAUDIBLE) okay to be there? LAMBERT: I think that that Pete Hegseth has a right to -- they have a right to have different views there. I do think they a right to have different views there.
ALLISON: But here's the thing. So, I ran the faith portfolio for Barack Obama and we did bring different views. We had the Guru Nanak celebration. We had Diwali. We had our iftars. We had the national or the Easter Prayer breakfast, ran them all, different views. We didn't bring Jihadists in the White House. We didn't bring white supremacists in the White House. If you -- we read people's sermons. We ensured that the words that they professed because of their faith were not demonizing another faith. We had Hanukkah at the White House.
I believe that we are a nation that should celebrate multi, different faiths. I really do, not though at the expense of others.
Second, what he was saying about slavery has nothing to do with spirituality or Christianity or any faith. It is a perverse approach. There was no harmony between the master and the slave. The master may think that, but the slave had no power. That is just a fact and that is wrong. And if it's not the case, then why doesn't he become a slave? Because I'm sure there wouldn't be harmony there.
And then the final thing is it is not an isolated event.
[22:25:01]
We cannot look at this as an isolated event. We cannot say that two weeks ago, when apes are put on a website and then you bring somebody into the White House that says, slavery was a harmonious condition, that it doesn't -- they don't go hand in hand. It does.
And so as a person who feels like his language is causing -- could come harm to my ancestors, to me and for the people that come before, I think we can say diversity of views are appropriate. I think we have to stand on some moral clarity that slavery does not fall in that category.
PHILLIP: So, Brianna, Pete Hegseth knows that this guy is controversial, because when CNN did a piece about him a while back, he responded to it with a tweet saying, all of Christ for all of life, seemingly to endorse the controversial things that he said in that interview. So, he knows, right, that this is controversial. Why would he do something like this?
LYMAN: Well, I'm curious if he knows about the slave remarks. I know that this pastor's controversial according to some for his views on women and family structure. The slavery --
PHILLIP: He was asked about it, by the way, in that interview with Pamela.
LYMAN: He was asked specifically about the slavery thing?
PHILLIP: Yes, he was. Yes. LYMAN: Well, if it was up to me, I would not have invited the specific pastor precisely over those comments. I also don't control the Pentagon. I think that there are plenty of other good Christian pastors out there that they could have invited. And if I was recommending to Pete hegseth, I would probably say the same thing.
MORAN: Well, we do control the Pentagon indirectly. It's our --
LYMAN: I mean --
MORAN: Yes, and I think it's such a wasted opportunity because what Hal said is true, it should be a place. You know, people should be able to pray. They want to pray the way they want to pray. That's a fundamental human right, and diversity of this nation's diversity of spiritual life is strength. And, frankly, we could use more of it right now.
And it's such a wasted opportunity to go to this degraded spiritual place and divide us again along these lines when the whole purpose of prayer, right, is to kind of is to get us closer to the better angels of our nature. And I just think it was wrong.
WEST: That's true. But then the other side of this thing is that the Pentagon has been associated with so many war crimes themselves. So, it's not just a matter of a debate about a pastor who's on the lunatic fringe, but we got to get at the very heart of who we are as a nation, as an empire, as a civilization, how do we stay in contact with our best, how do we stay in contact with our worst.
And you have mechanisms of killing innocent people, drones being dropped. It could be Obama, it could be Bush, it could be Trump. And when you actually then have genocide, Gaza facilitated, that's the Pentagon and Congress too. And if you don't want to call it genocide, it's still crimes against humanity. You're killing innocent folk. Any child of any color in any nation being killed is murder by Pentagon, by me, by anybody else. That's morality too. That's spirituality too.
So, I don't want this particular debate to overlook these larger challenges of we as a people, as a slice of the human species.
PHILLIP: All right. Next for us, the president had a $10 billion surprise at the first meeting of his new Board of Peace, but lawmakers from this country are calling it illegal. We'll debate that next.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump just launched his Board of Peace and it appears that U.S. taxpayers may end up being stuck with part of the bill. The initiative was created to oversee the reconstruction of the Gaza Strip and Trump revealed that $7 billion had already been pledged mainly from countries in the Middle East. But as for the U.S. support, he made a surprising announcement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The Board of Peace is showing how a better future can be built starting right here in this room. And I want to let you know that the United States is going to make a contribution of $10 billion to the Board of Peace. And that number is a very small number when you look at that compared to the cost of war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: It's unclear where exactly that money would come from, but Senator Chris Murphy has a blunt assessment about it. He says, and it's totally illegal. One thing to also remember about this Board of Peace is that whatever it is, Trump has appointed himself the head of it, the chairman of it forever. Not sure what that even means. But $10 billion, where is it going to come from? And can he do that?
BRIANNA LYMAN, "THE FEDERALIST" REPORTER: Well, I think to the first question of where does it come from, I think people would like to know. I also think that most Americans know that what's happening right now in Gaza and between Israel, there's a century old conflict that I don't think any other country is going to be able to alleviate. That has to be both sides wanting to do it. And I don't think either side necessarily wants to reach the same agreement that President Trump would want.
But I do think President Trump has a vested interest in seeing peace in the Middle East for our safety, for the safety of our allies over in the Middle East. When it comes to that money being illegal, look, President Joe Biden used taxpayer dollars to pay student loans off, even when the Supreme Court said no.
So, when we talk about whether or not this money's illegal, I'd argue that sending $10 billion to try and establish peace is probably a better use of illegal money than anything we've seen Democrats do in the past few years. And I think that's what a lot of people are going to focus on.
TERRY MORAN, SUBSTACK AUTHOR, "REAL PATRIOTISM": Well, they're both wrong, right? It was unconstitutional for Biden to try to finagle student loan relief. And it's unconstitutional for Trump to come up with $10 billion of our dollars to do what he wants with, right? The Supreme Court is about to tell him he can't tear off the world, and my hunch is if this got to them.
I mean, I know there's pockets of discretion that the President has over the budget. But this is -- the framers wrote the Constitution so that the power of the person does not belong to the president. And I think he needs to get that message. Also, he's there saying to Iran, very bad things are going to happen to you. So, he's about to launch a war without --
(CROSSTALK)
MORAN: -- even a debate in Congress.
HAL LAMBERT, POINT BRIDGE CAPITAL FOUNDER AND CEO: The funding, okay, wait a minute. He has the executive authority to reallocate foreign aid, especially for security purposes. And by the way, does anybody really think that the Democrats in Congress aren't all about rebuilding Gaza? So, I mean, this will go through Congress. We already know we're going have to get --
(CROSSTALK)
MORAN: Well, let's do it by the proper procedure.
LAMBERT: No, well, I mean, can stand up there and say we're going to allocate $10 billion because he can move money around in foreign aid. He can do it. But he's not even going need to do that because it's going to be passed by Congress to help rebuild Gaza. Whether it's rebuild or provide security or whatever it is, we know we're all going to end up paying for this at the end of the day.
And that's a negative, in my opinion. But yes, we're going to have to do it. So, I don't think that's a real issue. As far as threatening Iran, look, we've had 45 years of Iranian nonsense around the world terrorizing, killing doing all the things are doing. I think the world has had enough, quite frankly.
MORAN: Let's have that debate in Congress, where it belongs.
LAMBERT: Well, I mean, we have had the debate for 45 years.
MORAN: But not in Congress, not to go to war.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: I remember hearing Iran is six months away from a nuclear weapon, 25 years in a row. So, I mean, I don't know what the intelligence --
(CROSSTALK)
LYMAN: But who's saying war? Look, they also told us that, and granted, things can change at the drop of a hat, but they also told us that when Donald Trump won and took a dictator from Venezuela, that we would be in an all-out war with Venezuela. That never materialized.
(CROSSTALK)
MORAN: Before they told us he wasn't going do that.
(CROSSTALK)
LYMAN: They also told us -- they also told us that when he took out the nuclear facilities in Iran that that would also be another war.
UNKNOWN: Right. Exactly.
LYMAN: So, it never actually materializes and I think President Trump doesn't want his legacy.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I know. LYMAN: I don't think President Trump wants his legacy to be someone who starts a new war. So I think whatever decision he makes, he has more information than any of us at this table. He will take into account, is this going to involve boots on the ground?
MORAN: Right.
LYMAN: Is this going to get enough public support? And I think you'll see his decision reflect that.
ALLISON: I just think, you know, there are actions that happen in one moment and the repercussions don't surface until Donald Trump is not even the president. So, I just -- there's a longevity to this that is beyond the next three years of the Trump presidency. Where -- I do want to know where this money is coming from. I thought this was an "America First" president.
I thought that if we have $10 billion to spare, we could give people health care. We could end hunger in this country. We can't do that but we can spend money on -- you know. So, it's like, it's the will. It's what you wanted. It's like you want to do what you want to do and you don't want to do which you don't want to do. But if we can $10 billion to rebuild another country, why can't we actually start with rebuilding this country?
PHILLIP: I think also, by the way, we don't know where this money is coming from. I know that you're saying that this is coming from foreign aid dollars but we don't know that. And the White House hasn't provided any details which is part of the problem that we're --
(CROSSTALK)
CORNEL WEST, AUTHOR, "TRUTH MATTERS": But I think it's not solely about the money again very much about morality. The Board of Peace that he has is old-style colonialism, which the powers that --are reshaping the -- how come there's no Palestinian voices in the process itself?
(CROSSTALK)
LYMAN: Because they're being run by Hamas.
WEST: No, they don't want to be there because they know it's an extension of Israeli occupation and they also know that Trump has no interest in the plight of Palestinians.
LYMAN: When they stop slaughtering Israelis, then they can have a seat at the Peace Board. That's how actually works.
WEST: No, you got -- if you don't begin with the accountability --
(CROSSTALK)
LYMAN: They went to Israel on October 7th and slaughtered people.
(CROSSTALK) ALLISON: But you just said that it was both sides.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: There's many countries on this board that weren't a part of colonialism, so I don't know what you're talking about.
WEST: No, I'm talking about the persons who were behind it. You don't think the United States and U.K. played any colonial role in the shaping of the Middle East? Of course --
LYMAN: He's trying to peace. We should commend that.
WEST: But no justice. You can't have peace with no justice. You can't have peace without justice.
LAMBERT: What are you talking about? Justice for -- what are you talking about?
WEST: Justice for Palestinians.
LAMBERT: Oh my gosh.
WEST: You don't think justice for Palestinians is important?
LAMBERT: I'm not saying it's not important, but the definitions of justice in mind are probably different. We need peace and that's what President Trump is trying to do. That's what he's creating as a Peace Board. By the way, he's ended eight wars. He's ended eight wars. He's ended eight -- he's the only president that's ended eight wars --
(CROSSTALK)
WEST: Well, I don't believe it. I don't believe it. That's another issue. Don't throw that on the table. We've got a whole different debate.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: The composition of this Board of Peace is part of the interesting nature of this. First of all, the United Kingdom is actually not on the Board of Peace and most of Europe is --
WEST: But Tony Blair is a member of the board.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: But Tony Blair, former prime minister is. But look at the -- look at the countries that have accepted invitations. I mean, Albania, Azerbaijan --
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: You can't even come to America from Albania.
(CROSSTALK) PHILLIP: -- Mongolia. Right. So, when you look there, there are about half of those countries that you see on that list, their citizens can't come to the United States.
[22:40:06]
They're banned. They're on a visa ban list.
LYMAN: Well, what's the point?
PHILLIP: What's the point? The point is we have found those countries to be so unreliable and so risky and perhaps a nexus is of danger and terrorism that we won't let their citizens even get a visa --
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: But they're going to negotiate peace?
PHILLIP: But they're on a board of peace.
LYMAN: I think that the board of peace, to be honest, at this point, no other country has been able to end the Israel Gaza conflict until Donald Trump came around. Donald Trump, quite literally, probably is the only person who can make these things up. And I don't think we need other countries at all.
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: No, no. Let's go back to the Board of Peace, though. Do you understand the point that is being made?
LYMAN: Oh, I don't think those countries should be on there.
ALLISON: Okay, but they are and they were put on there by the person that is leading the Board of Peace. So, it's just --
LYMAN: Yes, but they're not going to have any real voting power. Donald Trump is the --
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: So, it's not a board. So, it's a facade.
(CROSSTALK)
LYMAN: Well, I think they can put input.
PHILLIP: And to be honest, we don't even really know what this Board of Peace is going to be doing. I mean, I think that's part of the issue. You're talking about voting. I don't know what they're going to be voting.
LYMAN: I assume there would probably be some kind of process with at least Saudi Arabia or other, you know, countries in region.
ALLISON: Perhaps they're on the Board of to try and get off that list. Perhaps there's like some favor they are intentionally trying to curry, which doesn't really bring peace. It just puts them in a better situation. So, it's just all a farce.
MORAN: My concern is that these are lackey countries that can endorse what Trump has talked about which is essentially to encourage, slash, ethnically cleanse the Palestinians out of Gaza and turn it into a golden --
(CROSSTALK)
LYMAN: Are you accusing Trump of wanting to ethnically cleanse Gaza?
MORAN: No. There is definitely a big part of Israel that does. Bend to Gaza, not all of them Hamas. Hamas is a minority government and they're talking about getting them out. He says you should want to live there. There's no way you should live there, where your ancestors lived, where you have a right under the United Nations to live there.
No, you don't -- you shouldn't live there, and we'll rebuild it. I don't know what to call that. It creeps me out.
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: My way --
MORAN: You'll get the votes of Mongolia and Azerbaijan and Albania, the rubber stamps of these terrorist-sponsoring countries that are only there perhaps for the end result which is what Netanyahu when his crowd has wanted in increasing numbers of people in Israel political parties want them gone from that land.
PHILLIP: So, let me just play really quick Trump's message to the many, many countries on -- especially countries in Europe and allies of ours who are not a part of this Board of Peace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: In terms of power and in terms of prestige, there's never been anything close because these are the greatest world leaders. Almost everybody's accepted and the ones that haven't will be. Some are playing a little cute. It doesn't work, you can't play cute with me. But they're playing a little bit, but they're all -- they're all joining, most of them very immediately. A few that we really don't want because they're trouble.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Board of Power is what he calls it. I also think that one of the reasons they're probably not doing it is just there's a lack of transparency about what it's all about. And you know, you may not like the rest of the world order that Trump criticizes like the United Nations, but at least they know what the rules are. Here, I think it's less clear.
(CROSSTALK) ALLISON: But Abby, how does he end with saying we don't want certainties because there are a whole lot of trouble? And the whole reason why he banned people from coming to some of these countries is he says there are a whole lot of trouble. Make it make sense, Abby.
PHILLIP: Make it make sense.
ALLISON: Make it make sense.
PHILLIP: Next for us, President Trump just accused Barack Obama of leaking classified information about aliens. From Air Force One to Area 51, this out of this world accusation is lighting up Washington.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:48:27]
BRIAN TYLER COHEN, PODCASTER: Are aliens real?
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: They're real but I haven't seen them and they're not being kept in, what is it?
COHEN: Area 51.
OBAMA: Area 51. There's no underground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Tonight, the truth is out there and according to President Trump, Barack Obama broke the law to tell it all of that stemming from that comment that you just heard there. Obama later clarified that he believes that odds are alien life does exist but he is seeing no evidence as president that extraterrestrials have made contact with us. But today, Trump says it's too little, too late.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Barack Obama said that aliens are real. Have you seen any evidence of non-human visitors to Earth?
TRUMP: Well, he gave classified information. He's not supposed to be doing that.
UNKNOWN: So aliens are real?
TRUMP: Well, I don't know if they're real or not. I can tell you he gave classified information. He's not supposed to be doing that. He made a big mistake. A lot of people believe him. You believe it Peter?
UNKNOWN: Well, the President can declassify anything that he wants to. So, if you want to make an announcement --
TRUMP: I may get him out of trouble by declassifying.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: Sure enough, he has now, tonight, directed his Department of War and other agencies to release the files, release the UFO files, not the Epstein files. But --
UNKNOWN: He did release the Epstein files.
PHILLIP: Okay. Yes. But I mean, look. I don't know. Maybe Obama did declassify them with his brain like Trump said you could.
[22:50:01]
MORAN: Trump just confirmed that Obama said something that's classified. Aliens are real.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: Well, it could be that Area 51 exists because I think there's -- they've never admitted that Area 51 exists. So, that may be what he was talking about there, saying that they're not buried under Area 51, but --
ALLISON: They're real. Come on guys, just let us know. Just where are you? Like, Mars, Venus? You know, just tell me where. I think it's actually malpractice by the U.S. government. I'm kind of joking but I'm kind of serious. If they are real, wouldn't you want your citizens to know so that you can like say don't interact with them, don't, you know -- it's like, protect us.
MORAN: One of them owns Tesla.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIP: Look, maybe they're real, but the government has released a lot of information about this. Every year, they release a report and in 2024, they released a report looking back at like the last, almost 100 years of documents that the Department of Defense had. And they were like no definitive proof that aliens, at least, that they were here.
LYMAN: You know, I think so. I think there's a poll that says 52 or 53 percent of Americans believe aliens are real. I would say there's probably a poll out they're showing that a higher percentage don't -- doesn't always believe what the government tells them.
And I would say if the government has come out saying aliens aren't real, there's going to be a lot of skeptics like myself included. I don't buy that. And I think with the whole Area 51, with Roswell, with Obama's comments, there's a good chance there's some, you know, E.Ts out there.
ALLISON: E.T.? Wait.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All I'm saying is that I actually think there probably are aliens out there. I just don't think any government documents are going to show us proof.
LYMAN: Oh, why wouldn't --
(CROSSTALK)
WEST: But why would we assume, though, that even if there are aliens, that they would be like us which is to say want to crush, want to conquer others? They might be very nice. They might be loving. They might be full of compassion. We just don't know --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: They might even be spiritual beings.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: I think -- it's interesting to me that President Obama came out immediately later and said, wait, never mind, what I really meant was that because the universe is so large, there has to be aliens out there, but that's not what he said in the podcast. So, why did he backtrack so quickly on that? It's really kind of fascinating.
LYMAN: And also, why did the podcaster, like, that was probably the worst example of journalism. He was like, yes, aliens are real. The podcast is like, all right, we're going to move on.
(LAUGHTER)
ALLISON: I think -- I also think --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: It was a rapid response.
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: I think it happened -- it was so unexpected. You're like, let me actually circle back to this later in the segment.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: There was supposed to be this rapid fire thing. But to my point about how this is no new conversation, even for Obama. In 2021, he said this about aliens, "What is true, and I'm actually being serious here, is there are, there's footage and records of objects in the skies. We don't know exactly what they are. We can't explain how they moved, their trajectory. They did not have an easily explainable pattern. And so, you know, I think the people should still take seriously trying to investigate and figure out what that is."
ALLISON: That's fair. I mean, why would we be so self-centered to think we would be the only things in this great universe that the gods of the Earth made?
PHILLIP: We are not alone, people. All right, next for us, the panel is going to give us their nightcaps, "Heated Rivalry" edition. No, not that heated rivalry. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:57:50]
PHILLIP: The USA Canada hockey rivalry continues. The U.S. women's hockey team took home Olympic gold in a storybook final against the Canadians. So, for tonight's News Nightcap, what do you think needs to be a rivalry? Cornell, you're up first.
WEST: I would love to see a rivalry between love and empathy. I think of Brother Jackson and King and Fannie Lou Hamer. They say we're in a no-lose situation if all we got to choose is between a George Eliot's middle march the greatest novel in English on empathy, and the love supreme of a Jesus of Hillel of the Saint Francis of Assisi of Anesta.
PHILLIP: All right, Hal, top that one.
LAMBERT: All right, I will top that one. I want to see a friendly rivalry between Dr. Cornell West and Dr. Condoleezza Rice. Academics at the top of their game in Academia, different viewpoints.
WEST: That would be rich.
LAMBERT: I want to see it
WEST: I love my sister --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Okay, let's make that an official invitation to the table. Condoleezza Rice and Dr. West sitting right there. All right, Brianna?
LYMAN: Mine is nowhere near any of these two. I was saying soft serve ice cream versus hard ice cream. I think that's really important during the summertime. People should be able to -- people should just choose one and then they should just banish the other. Choose soft serve.
PHILLIP: What?
LAMBERT: Milkshake. Just milkshake.
PHILLIP: Alright, Ashley.
ALLISON: Mine is middle part versus the side part, right? It's like for years I wore my hair with a side part, like 13 years I had a side part and then one day I did a middle part and I've never looked back.
WEST: But it looks wonderful.
ALLISON: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I'm a middle part girl myself. ALLISON: Middle part girl.
PHILLIP: He's on team side part.
ALLISON: We're side part now. Look at this.
MORAN: Mine is in -- the event has already started. Dogs versus skiers, right? There the wonderfully named Nazgul the dog that ran out on the cross-country ski track and raced the cross-country skiers. I think they should have that in the -- in the Olympics every year.
[23:00:00]
PHILLIP: That was so funny. Also so scary. That dog is actually like part wolf.
ALLISON: I know.
PHILLIP: It seems like a dog wolf.
LYMAN: Is he?
PHILLIP: It's not exactly --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: That's true. Not exactly one that you take home and leave in your living room. All right everyone, thank you very much for being here. Thanks for watching "NewsNight". You can catch us anytime on social media on X, Instagram, and on TikTok. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
