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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Dares Dems To Stand Up To Support Deportation Efforts; Trump Touts Tariffs Despite Supreme Court's Rejection; Trump Calls on Congress to Pass Voter ID Law; Epstein Survivors and Files Not Mentioned in Trump Speech. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired February 25, 2026 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[01:00:00]
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Citizens, there is a difference between coming to this country and absorbing all of the greatness of this country and the opportunity of this country and maintaining the values that you bring with you, maintaining the dignity that you bring with you. Black folk were stripped of absolutely everything.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Everything.
SELLERS: But all we had was hope and faith. We didn't come here to assimilate. We were brought here in chains. There was no assimilation. So let's get that absolutely correct.
And there also is a line between talking about immigration and being outwardly racist. And what we're doing here is we're kind of beating around the bush, because what Donald Trump does with Somalians is utter racism. And if he did it one time, then we can excuse it, but he called these people filthy. He called them animals. He said all they do -- and we get into this thing where we say now that we have to become westernized, that you have to come here and assimilate.
No, no, no. You say that you want Norwegians. You say you want white South Africans. You call African countries shithole countries. You poo-poo on Haiti.
Like, let's be extremely clear about what we're talking about in this administration. And I think that there is a refreshing. And people are -- people finally -- I mean, I'm old enough to remember when races were, like, in the closet, but now, you know --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's out.
SELLERS: -- it's out. And I'm OK with that. I know what I'm dealing with.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not.
ALLISON: But also -- but also, if there was an assimilation, it wouldn't be to Western culture. It would be to Native American culture. Because you all are visitors, too, here, if we want to be clear. But we don't talk about that. We erase them.
We put them on reservations. We try and give them tribal sovereignty. And we like -- and their community also was decimated by people who came and tried to get them to assimilate. It wasn't just that were stripped from everything. If we wanted, as black people to keep our culture, we were killed, we were lynched, we were beaten.
Our families were torn apart. Does that ring -- does any of those things ring true to sound like some things that might be happening now? People are being killed. People -- families are being torn apart. There is no -- the beauty of America used to be as a melting pot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
ALLISON: It used to be the thing where diversity --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not what --
ALLISON: No, assimilation (CROSSTALK).
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: They are not the same thing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the process.
SELLERS: In 1988 -- in 1988 --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
PHILLIP: No, it's not.
SELLERS: -- told you what America was.
No, no, no. You want America to be this carpet. It's not. It's a quilt.
ALLISON: It's a quilt.
SELLERS: Jason Jackson --
ALLISON: Yes.
SELLERS: -- literally told you what America was.
ALLISON: Patches.
SELLERS: It's a quilt. It's different patches --
ALLISON: Yes.
SELLERS: -- that are sewn together --
ALLISON: None of them are the same.
SELLERS: -- to make a new fabric. ALLISON: Yes.
SELLERS: This is what his life was. That is -- I mean, like, I don't understand how we don't understand history.
PHILLIP: Well, look, just to bring this back to why we're even talking about this, I think the question of what is the correct vision of this country is really part of what is up for grabs right now. And the fact of the matter is that if the American people saw it the way that Donald Trump did, I don't think we would be having this conversation. I don't -- I don't think this would even be an issue. He would be popular on the issue of how he's handling immigration, and he's not. A lot of Americans are either themselves immigrants.
They have ties to immigrants. They live in mixed status homes. Immigration is something that is actually deeply tied to this country. You said you're Italian. I live in New York.
There's an -- there's a little Italy --
ALLISON: Italy.
PHILLIP: -- in New York where people are still celebrating their Italian heritage, still flying Italian flags. They're proud of where they came from. They go back to their home country. They don't forget that's where they. came from.
ALLISON: Still speaking the language.
PHILLIP: So again, a question of --
KEN CUCCINELLI, HOMELAND SECURITY DEPUTY SECRETARY, FIRST TRUMP ADMIN.: My grandmother.
PHILLIP: -- do the American people believe in this? I think it's called this heritage American idea that some on the MAGA right want to -- want to -- want to put forward, which is this idea that if you don't -- if you don't tie your American identity back to the Mayflower, you're not really American.
CUCCINELLI: No, that -- the left wants to make this binary, and that's what I'm hearing here. Either you're a racist or you're for open borders. And that is not the real world. And that is not Donald Trump. He spoke favorably, as Brad noted, for hardworking people who love this country to come to this country.
That's who we want to come to this country. That's who Donald Trump wants to come to this country. And it is always -- it was always true. And to your point, Abby, it's playing out that the idea of enforcing immigration law is easier to support than when cameras are following around the actual enforcement of immigration law. And because we're all human beings, and these are human beings, they may be on the wrong side of the law --
PHILLIP: But it's also common sense, right?
CUCCINELLI: -- but you still have -- well, let me just finish --
PHILLIP: Americans --
CUCCINELLI: -- this one point.
PHILLIP: Yes.
CUCCINELLI: We have this -- we all have a heart for other people, but there is also we've crossed this -- we long ago crossed this line with millions and millions and millions of people being allowed in illegally and being given various statuses, many of them. And so how do you solve that problem? Well, there's -- you solve that problem by returning them home. And that's never --
[01:05:09]
PHILLIP: Well, I don't know that -- I don't know that Americans agree that you solve that problem by treating visa overseas the same way you treat somebody --
TERRY MORAN, VETERAN JOURNALIST: I agree with that.
PHILLIP: -- who murdered someone.
MORAN: I agree with that.
CUCCINELLI: Well, they aren't treated the same.
PHILLIP: Because -- well, they -- in this administration --
ALLISON: They are.
PHILLIP: -- they are. And that's part of the problem. Because -- let me give you another example, and I'll let you respond to it. Marco Rubio, our secretary of state, his grandfather came over to this country illegally and was ordered to be deported, did not leave and was granted asylum in one of the waves of asylum in this country. And now here he is.
And I think Americans understand that, like, to your point, they approve of it's broken. But when you ask them, should you deport somebody who's been here for 20 years, should you deport somebody who's working hard, hasn't broken any laws, they say no.
MORAN: Because they understand that there's a cartoon version of immigration which is being peddled by Donald Trump and the Republican Party. This notion that we'll take people who want to work hard, we'll take people who want to have decent lives. The vast, vast majority of immigrants, legal and illegal --
SELLERS: Right.
MORAN: -- are those people --
PHILLIP: Yes. MORAN: -- and they always have been. And this notion that only heritage Americans have this culture, the fundamental truth about the American people --
CUCCINELLI: No one has said that.
MORAN: Well, or that's --
PHILLIP: Some people are saying.
MORAN: Some people are saying --
PHILLIP: Yes. Some people are correct.
MORAN: -- it in the Republican Party that you have to be able to trace your roots back to whatever the Mayflower or to some, you know, culture of Trinity in Europe.
PHILLIP: I mean, this idea of Western culture, you know?
MORAN: And that problem (ph) is just -- most Americans are normal. They don't have grand theories of everything. They don't have apocalyptic mythos where we are in cultural conflict with the devil.
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And most Americans didn't want --
MORAN: They're normal people.
ALLISON: But can I ask you a question, though? If you did -- because you -- when we said that people who are, like, going to their appointments for their immigration status, they are getting detained and deported, that is happening. There is video of that happening. You said no, but if you found out that they were, would you have a problem with that? Do you think that should -- is how it should be working?
CUCCINELLI: If you're suggesting that people who are here legally are being picked up as if they're here illegally, then, yes, I would want that fixed. Of course.
TODD: I want to answer your question very directly. There are people who are coming to their appointments, who are working within the system. They have overstayed their visa. They are technically deportable. They've been adjudged deportable.
And they're being detained. There -- that is happening. I don't know how high the error rate is. I think that's a bad policy for this administration. I don't think it is helping them has all the credibility in the world on this issue.
He ran on it. The system was broken and Joe Biden made it worse and he was elected to fix it. I think he can maintain that confidence by making sure that's not happening.
PHILLIP: Yes. TODD: And that he's spending all his effort on people who are violent criminals, people who have come in, entered twice, even twice, you're a felon. And those people should be deported as well. But they have to do a good job of separating those two.
PHILLIP: All right, I think we've come to a good place on that topic. I do want to talk about something else that President Trump spent some time on how his economic accomplishments, but the question is, will it be enough to affordability? Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Months ago, I had just inherited a nation in crisis with a stagnant economy, inflation at record levels. Gasoline, which reached a peak of over $6 a gallon is now below $2.30 a gallon in most states. In 12 months, I secured commitments for more than $18 trillion pouring in from all over the globe. The tariffs paid for by foreign countries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: OK, everyone, they are not paid for by foreign countries.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ALLISON: We're paying for them.
PHILLIP: Americans are paying for them. It is interesting though that he is --
TODD: The gas thing was a lot too, just FYI.
PHILLIP: Yes, that is -- that is also true. At least it's a -- it's a gross --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (CROSSTALK) inflation thing was in the record.
PHILLIP: It's a gross overstatement. It's a gross overstatement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
PHILLIP: But why is the president --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll tell you -- I'll tell you, all that Trump (CROSSTALK).
PHILLIP: -- Terry, doubling down on, especially on tariffs, a deeply unpopular policy that the Supreme Court just said was illegal.
MORAN: Because he's always believed in it. He is -- he has a vision of America with belching smokestacks and factories and trade surpluses. That is basically from his teenage years, like 50 years ago, 60 years ago. And that's what he's committed to. The problem is that he did it unlawfully and he's doing it unlawfully again.
These new tariffs, the 15 percent global tariffs, they're on balance of payments deficits. His own lawyer in the Supreme Court told the Supreme Court that would be illegal if we were using Section 122. John Sauer said that to the Supreme Court and Trump has now done it again. So it's just a matter of time before these are illegal and they are paid for by the American people.
[01:10:03]
As Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent himself, let the cat out of the bag the other day. When somebody asked him about how would a refund of all these the American people are going to see that money admitting we're paying.
SELLERS: I mean, you've seen the studies come out. I think that the average American, because of these tariffs. I mean, the fact is you talked about the border and that Donald Trump was hired to fix the border. I mean, he was also hired to fix the economy. And I love this because one of the things Republicans have done since I've been born, I was born in 1984, but Republicans always, always, always tout themselves as being the strongest on the economy.
But what we've seen them do, president after president after president, is actually raise the deficit. What we've seen them do is have things that cause inflation. I mean, the last time we had a balanced budget in this country was William Jefferson Clinton, right? That was the last time --
CUCCINELLI: With the Republican Congress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
SELLERS: Who was the president?
CUCCINELLI: The Republican Congress.
SELLERS: OK. The Republican Congress. You're right. So imagine what you have now. You have a Republican Congress, a Republican House, a Republican Senate and a Republican president balance.
PHILLIP: And the president -- listen, if you listen to this speech, you would not be blamed for thinking that the policy was tariff and spend because the revenue raising was going to be coming from tariffs, which are coming from Americans. Then he's talking about putting $1,000 in Americans 401K plans. We don't know where that money is coming from. He's touting his, you know, his Trump accounts for Americans. He's, he's touting all kinds of things that will cost money, but not really explaining how that's fiscally responsible or where the money is going to come from or even how he's going to get Congress to do it.
CUCCINELLI: I love these questions that only arise when there's a Republican president. The --
PHILLIP: Well, only -- I only --
CUCCINELLI: We'll get it from student loan --
PHILLIP: I mean, listen, I only say that because --
TODD: This is not a (inaudible).
PHILLIP: -- listen, he --
TODD: I wish he would.
PHILLIP: Because to your point, I mean, he is a Republican, right? I mean, is this not the mantra of Republicans, that Democrats are fiscally irresponsible? They just want to spend. Trump is spending and he is also taxing because tariffs are a tax.
CUCCINELLI: And one of the things he says about the tariffs is that they are knocking down the deficit. Scott Bessent talks about this quite a bit as well.
PHILLIP: But they're not --
CUCCINELLI: They're aware that the tax increase on us.
SELLERS: How? How? So tell me how.
CUCCINELLI: So --
PHILLIP: Well, look, I mean --
CUCCINELLI: Because they'd be borrowing more money --
SELLERS: Than projected.
CUCCINELLI: -- to -- yes, this is on -- this is -- yes, this is (inaudible) --
PHILLIP: The impact on the -- the impact on the deficit is very small.
CUCCINELLI: No.
PHILLIP: And it'll be even -- yes, it is. It is very small.
CUCCINELLI: It just isn't.
ALLISON: If I were --
PHILLIP: And it'll be even smaller, given that they have to curtail some of the tariffs. But actually, to your point, I mean, Trump said, he said that he wants tariffs to replace the income tax.
CUCCINELLI: Right. He would like that.
PHILLIP: Which is not -- he would like that. That is imaginary math. That is not a real thing. How -- are you comfortable with the president wanting a policy that is based on something that is fiscally impossible?
CUCCINELLI: So I started as one of those free trade Republicans that thought there shouldn't be -- we should, you know, let anybody do anything. And then I -- then I traveled around Virginia and saw the consequences of that, including the wipeout of the entire southern tier of Virginia and a good part of the western tier of Virginia. And Donald Trump's efforts to return balance, in fairness to trade is something that I think Americans support and it's something we're seeing in the drug price. One of his accomplishments that he touted is to stop Americans from subsidizing the rest of the world's lower drug prices. And that's been a success.
And I think that he believes, and I think a lot of us believe that we can move in that direction on trade more generally and tariffs are had been part of that discussion.
SELLERS: I agree with you, Ken. I think that there is, if there is one silver lining from the president's address tonight, I think that there is bipartisan support. And we saw it. We saw the $30 cap that came under Democrats on insulin prices. We saw the Republican Congress mess with that.
But we do believe, I mean, you have Mark Cuban and Donald Trump singing from the same sheet of music on lowering pharmaceutical drug prices. I think that those type of things, I wish that you could have a gang of eight to get in a room, fortify this and talk about those things.
TODD: Yes.
SELLERS: But also it's -- you have those things which are what America should be, how we should legislate, get in the room, fix that problem. We agree on those things. And then you have this fantasy world, because I do believe, Ken and Brad, that you guys still are waiting on your DOGE checks to come. I don't know if you remember that, but the same president promised you $1,000 DOGE check from the savings that Elon Musk was going to provide --
ALLISON: And instead, more Americans had paid $1,000.
TODD: But you know what he did? He actually ended up paying tax with tariffs.
[01:15:00]
ALLISON: One thousand dollar. That was a good point.
TODD: It's a perfect time.
ALLISON: OK. That's what he called the (inaudible). But --
TODD: Everybody in America who pays taxes, their paycheck this February is better than it would have been if Democrats had been in charge. Every Democrat wanted to raise taxes on every taxpayer in America. They all voted for it, every one of them. Whether you take the standard deduction, whether it's your income at the very lowest bracket, every Democrat was going to have those taxes go up last month. Donald Trump talked about that tonight. He hasn't talked about that much this year. It's really one of his two signature accomplishments. And I thought one of the outcomes tonight that was most important was he talked about some of these things that he has done. Auto loan deductibility, that's a first time thing he's done. What he did with prescription drugs through direct buying. That's a thing that he hasn't talked about a lot.
I think maybe him spending more time talking about why he's doing things and who the American people are, who are the heroes, I think that was one of the upshots tonight.
ALLISON: Can I say --
TODD: The tax bill being number one.
ALLISON: -- three things. One, maybe their checks will look better, but they have to then go spend it on the health care that is more expensive now first.
CUCCINELLI: We on subsidize.
ALLISON: We -- two, we try to run down the facts and tell people that it's better. It doesn't work. If people don't feel it's better, they don't believe it's better, they don't agree with it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We tried that with Joe Smart (ph).
ALLISON: We tried it.
CUCCINELLI: Yes.
ALLISON: I'm giving you free advice. It doesn't work.
CUCCINELLI: No, it's true. No, absolutely true.
ALLISON: OK? It doesn't work. If I was advising Donald Trump on the tariff thing, it is -- I -- Democrats support and have supported tariffs in the past. But I would take that Supreme Court decision as a win and back off on the policy. At least until midterms if I was advising him and blame -- say it's not my fault, I'm trying to do it. It's not where --
SELLERS: I agree.
ALLISON: -- I blame the court, but his unwillingness to just take his foot off the pedal is going to drive him right off the ledge.
PHILLIP: Well, OK, to that very -- but let me just play this because it's kind of apropos of what you're talking about. Trump basically made the argument today that all that's happening right now is just straight up winning --
ALLISON: Right.
PHILLIP: -- for the American people. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Our country is winning again. In fact, we're winning so much that we really don't know what to do about it. People are asking me, please, please, please, Mr. President, we're winning too much. We can't take it anymore. We're not used to winning in our country until you came along with just always losing.
But now we're winning too much. And I say, no, no, no, you're going to win again. You're going to win big. You're going to win bigger than ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: OK. I don't know what polls he's looking at, but that's not what the ones that I've seen say.
MORAN: Well, I mean, he's a salesman and this is -- that was a sales pitch to both -- to credit my administration with making everything great. And of course it's not, right? And not only we aren't winning at home, but that winning the way he wants to do it has alienated us and weakened our power and our alliances probably permanently. And listen to the issues we're talking about here. We're talking about free trade, we're talking about immigration, we're talking about all these things that the Congress should be dealing with, right?
We're talking about the cost of the government. These are things that we have a broken Congress, it won't do anything. And his approach is chaotic and insane.
TODD: Terry, wait a minute. We have -- the Congress is broken because Democrats will not allow anything to move on the floor of the U.S. Senate. The House has passed --
MORAN: Mitch McConnell -- Mitch McConnell said, my job is to make Barack Obama one term president.
TODD: But let's -- but let's assign blame where it goes. If you had seven Democrats who are willing to vote for things they campaign for --
SELLERS: Well, you don't --
PHILLIP: Hold on -- hold on --
TODD: Let's go back --
SELLERS: But you have a majority.
PHILLIP: Hold on, Brad. I actually think that's a bit of a cop out because the president isn't even going to Congress on some stuff.
TODD: Yes, exactly.
PHILLIP: It'd be one thing if he said, you know, I want Congress to do all of these things. He's saying, I'm not even going to bother going with them -- going to them on it. And the question I have for you is, is that part of the problem? It almost feels to me like the American people see through some of this stuff. They don't trust the executive orders.
They know they're temporary. They also see loopholes the size of a truck --
TODD: Well, they just --
PHILLIP: -- when it comes to some of these policies. That deductibility on car interest only applies, as the president said, to --
TODD: American cars.
PHILLIP: -- American made cars.
TODD: Not a bad thing.
PHILLIP: No, I'm just -- I'm just pointing out.
TODD: I drive a Ford truck. That sounds good.
PHILLIP: Listen, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't apply to everyone, right? The no taxes on Social Security that he keeps claiming is not no taxes on Social Security, it's a $6,000 deduction. A majority of Social Security recipients are going to be paying taxes. No taxes on tips. There are limits to it.
There are -- there -- so people are seeing the limit of what Trump claims to be doing and how it's not actually impacting them. And I think that -- don't you think it's part of the problem is that he's not even going to Congress and saying, let's make this real.
TODD: Those things came through Congress he just mention.
PHILLIP: Let's make this permanent.
TODD: All those things came through Congress. And I think I would call those progress, much like when Joe Biden tariffed electric cars from China and preference those. I mean, Democrats thought that was progress. There's a housing bill that went through the U.S. House of Representatives, 390 to nine. We don't talk much about things that are bipartisan.
[01:20:12]
SELLERS: Right.
TODD: That's going to go to the Senate and die because Chuck Schumer is not going to let it come to the floor. And so there are opportunities for us to work together. There are opportunities. And the U.S. house is frankly, with a one seat majority, Mike Johnson's doing a hell of a job actually moving anything through. It's hard to get Republicans to approve the Journal on a one seat majority for God's sake.
So I think we have to assess blame where it is. I agree with you that Donald Trump should go to the Congress and wheel more. He didn't have a whole lot of luck that first term. And frankly, you saw tonight, when Democrats won't stand up for heroes in the gallery, you have to accept that maybe he would agree they're not going to help him --
ALLISON: But I -- but I --
SELLERS: I don't know what else Republican want.
PHILLIP: I know what they really needs.
SELLERS: And this is going to be the problem --
TODD: It can't be solved in the Senate
SELLERS: This is going to be the problem. That argument I think is going to fail in November because you asked the American people to give you the House and the Senate to fix --
ALLISON: Yes.
SELLERS: -- the problems that Joe Biden gave this country. Then the American people gave you the House and the Senate to fix the problems that Joe Biden did. And now you're saying it's still Democrats fault.
TODD: You want to get rid of filibusters. Is that what you're telling me?
SELLERS: But --
TODD: You'd like to drop it?
SELLERS: Listen, I --
TODD: Are you going to take -- do you think the American people are ignorant that they don't know?
SELLERS: I think they're -- no, I don't think they're ignorant at all.
PHILLIP: Well, there's also -- there also leadership is an option.
SELLERS: I think they're -- I think they're smarter than that.
PHILLIP: Leadership is an option, right?
SELLERS: Right. But leadership is an option. And I think that's my point. I think that the American public is tired of this act that we call showmanship. I think that -- or salesman as you call it.
That's right. Because when you get up there and you hear that 15, 20 second clip of just an old guy talking about --
ALLISON: Winning.
SELLERS: We're winning, we're winning, winning, winning. Oh my God, we're winning. Like --
TODD: He does that makes you crazy.
SELLERS: First of all, that is -- No, he does it because he's mediocre. Like he does it because he doesn't have the ability to put words together.
ALLISON: I'm laughed. It didn't make me crazy. It made me actually had a good laugh that night.
TODD: And then he said --
ALLISON: But, but, but --
PHILLIP: Where's the -- where's the leadership? There a role for Trump --
ALLISON: But here's the thing --
PHILLIP: -- to be a leader in this moment?
SELLERS: Yes.
ALLISON: Yes. But there's a role for a lot of --
SELLERS: Of course, he's the president.
PHILLIP: And bring people to his side. That's what politics is, right?
ALLISON: But it's hard to bring people to your side when you make fun of them in their face. Like, that's really hard. If you say negative things about me, I'm not coming to your house for dinner because I don't like you and you probably don't like me. And that is what Trump did a lot tonight.
What I will say, though, is, I hear you, Brad. It's Democrats fault. We need seven votes, then go get them. Work, negotiate, compromise. When we did not have enough votes for -- when Biden was in office, because at one point we had a trifecta 2, Biden had to work.
He had to go get votes. He had to do it. It didn't always work. The problem is that we are in such a partisan time. And I'm going to be honest, in my perspective, like you all started this fight.
You started it when -- and I mean it. Most recently, you started it when Mitch McConnell wouldn't even give Barack Obama his supreme -- his rightfully so --
SELLERS: A vote.
ALLISON: -- a vote.
SELLERS: No, wait a minute --
ALLISON: So a vote. And then he did the exact same thing --
PHILLIP: All right. Let me --
ALLISON: -- on the Supreme Court. So it's just like, come on, guys.
TODD: Advising consent, Barack Obama --
PHILLIP: OK.
TODD: -- should have asked Mitch McConnell who he could confirm and then sent that nominee.
PHILLIP: Ken --
SELLERS: He's the president.
PHILLIP: -- to Ashley's --
MORAN: He nominated Merrick Garland.
PHILLIP: Ken, to Ashley's point --
MORAN: Come on. He nominated a Republican.
PHILLIP: -- are Republicans just --
SELLERS: Far too left.
PHILLIP: -- being lazy about this?
CUCCINELLI: About what?
PHILLIP: And about --
SELLERS: Governing.
PHILLIP: Governing.
ALLISON: Governing.
PHILLIP: Yes. They're in charge. They've got all three branches --
CUCCINELLI: No. So --
PHILLIP: -- all three chamber -- two chambers of the House and the Senate and the presidency. If you don't have the votes, what you have to do is you have to make deals with the other side in order to get a deal. Is it just laziness, partisanship that they -- whatever it is, that they are not willing to do that on some of these tough issues that would make a difference for America?
CUCCINELLI: No, I think they're quite willing to do it. And you know, we've talk, we're obviously talking about Donald Trump because he gave the State of the Union tonight. But virtually every Democrat in the House put out an -mail fundraising tonight calling Donald Trump every name you just complained about. And that's all they ever do. They will not be seen being constructive with him.
They will not do it.
PHILLIP: All you need is a few. You don't need the whole House.
CUCCINELLI: Well --
PHILLIP: You don't need all Democrats --
CUCCINELLI: -- that's -- you are right about that.
PHILLIP: -- in the House or in the Senate.
CUCCINELLI: You're right about that in both chambers. And that's -- and that's very true. You know, Bakari earlier commented on kind of civility and working together and compromise and then the partisanship that exists. I think it is a simple matter of human nature that when you have the kind of behavior Ashley was describing by both parties --
ALLISON: Both parties, yes.
CUCCINELLI: -- then you make it a whole lot harder to actually come together and do the 390 to nine votes and make those stick and go all the way through the process.
SELLERS: Respectfully -- oh, I'm sorry. I should --
CUCCINELLI: And -- no, no, no, that's OK. And look, Donald Trump is pure pugilist. He's always on the front foot. He's always going to say, we're winning. And he has made deals with Democrats both first term and second.
[01:25:09]
SELLERS: Can I just -- can I just point out one of the thing --
CUCCINELLI: That's always been their time.
SELLERS: -- one of the things that's you're saying, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. And this is going to make Donald Trump's head explode. I hope he's watching this. It points to the fact that shows you that Barack Obama was just a far superior governor and leader and executive than Donald Trump could ever be.
You take somebody who in 2010, for example, had a very similar setup that we have now, and he was able to transform our entire health care center -- system. Whether or not you agree with it or disagree, I know how you feel about it. Can you filed the first lawsuit against it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
SELLERS: You guys still haven't fixed health care in this country or had an idea how to fix it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You almost sit like a dog.
SELLERS: But my point is -- but my point is he was able to go in and actually lead and be transformative, like asking Donald Trump to do anything culpable --
TODD: Bakari, he had 60 senators.
SELLERS: Asking Donald Trump to do anything culpable?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had 60.
SELLERS: I know he had 60, but I mean, he still had to make sure --
CUCCINELLI: He didn't sell it.
SELLERS: He did.
TODD: He didn't get a single Republican vote for it.
SELLERS: But got won.
TODD: If you like your doctor, you keep your doctor. If you like your plan.
SELLERS: So did he lie? Did he not --
TODD: It was called the lie of the year. What if that called it the lie of the year?
SELLERS: Oh my --
ALLISON: Barack Obama had was an actual mandate. What you all have is you have to figure out how to govern. And after the 2024 election, you all we -- you had a mandate. Well, the facts and the math and the Senate, you don't. So figure out how to work with your Democratic colleagues and get some stuff.
TODD: I have a question for you. So it was in the speech tonight.
ALLISON: Yes.
TODD: The president tonight said that what we need to do is not send money to big insurance companies, the Obamacare subsidies, and send it straight to the people, the patients who need them. Democrats used to be against insurance companies. They thought it was corporate welfare. Is that a place where Donald Trump could get seven Democrats in the Senate instead of doing the ACA seven --
SELLERS: Wait. How are you -- how are you going to get the money from people?
TODD: You're going to have to first --
SELLERS: Are you going to send it to the states?
TODD: You're going to have to --
SELLERS: How does that work?
TODD: You're going to have to open up the ACA, the sacred cow. You're going to have to open it up and say, maybe we didn't do it right under Barack Obama. Maybe we got the insurance companies too much profit. Let's lower the medical loss ratio and send this money as vouchers, perhaps, or discount straight to the consumer.
SELLERS: I mean, I think you could -- I definitely think you could -- you could have a conversation about that. But the problem that we have here is what you all have done to Medicaid cuts, what you all have done to the cuts on rural health care centers, what you all have done to these cuts around. I mean, so you're saying, open up the sacred cow. And then you have Democrats that are like, we don't trust you --
ALLISON: That's right.
SELLERS: -- because the one Big Beautiful Bill has people out here whose costs are going up and whose access has gone down. So if this is all we're doing, then yes. Mike Johnson, Hakeem Jeffries, Chuck Schumer, get in a room and say, look, I don't believe that insurance companies should be making the profits off the backs of everyday Americans. You and I agree on that. How do we fix that problem?
Let's talk about that directly. But the last time we did this in the one Big Beautiful Bill, you cost the American public, both of you guys and Americans remember that. And we're not going down that path again.
PHILLIP: It's so interesting to come full circle on this health care topic because I remember in the Obamacare discussions, Republicans were the ones who are trying to protect health care companies, which is why they ended up -- Democrats ended up with the bill that they did. But we'll have to leave that discussion there.
Next for us, President Trump says Democrats only win elections because they cheat. And he cites overwhelming public support to get voter ID laws passed. So how do Democrats respond? We'll debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:32:08]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm asking you to approve the Save America Act to stop illegal aliens and others who are unpermitted persons from voting in our sacred American elections.
The cheating is rampant in our elections, it's rampant. Why would anybody not want voter ID? One reason -- because they want to cheat. There's only one reason.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: He says the cheating is rampant, and yet he can't prove it.
If it were so rampant, then prove it.
KEN CUCCINELLI, HOMELAND SECURITY DEPUTY SECRETARY, FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: Well, in 2020, you can point to just Zuckerberg. Zuckerberg alone beat him, or you can point to the censorship on the Hunter Biden laptop. That was enough in four swing states.
PHILLIP: Ok, he said --
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: What?
PHILLIP: -- cheating.
CUCCINELLI: Cheating.
PHILLIP: Let me just -- I don't want us to get off topic here, he said cheating in elections. He's talking about voter fraud.
CUCCINELLI: I know he is.
PHILLIP: He says it is rampant.
CUCCINELLI: Yes.
PHILLIP: I'm asking the president of the United States to prove it. They have asked -- all the states they've gotten it from, you know, a dozen states or so to give them their voter rolls. Why have they not been able to prove that rampant fraud?
CUCCINELLI: So those voter roll disputes are cleaning millions of people off the voter rolls. And I'm and I'm --
PHILLIP: Show me the proof of fraud.
(CROSSTALKING)
PHILLIP: That's all I'm asking. Where's the fraud?
CUCCINELLI: Because -- because names on those voter rolls are voted.
TERRY MORAN, VETERAN JOURNALIST: There is one truth about voter fraud in the United States, and that is that it does not exist to any degree of consequence anywhere in this country.
And I know that for a fact because the Republican Party has proved it to me for decades. Republicans have searched high and low in every corner of this country with massive budgets, the power of subpoena of presidential commission, the Department of Justice, legislative committees, state legislatures, academics, think-tanks, conservative media -- they have looked everywhere.
The Heritage Foundation has a fraud tracker. They've looked at elections dating back to the 1970s. That's billions of votes -- not every single vote, but billions of votes.
And if you looked at -- I looked at it the other day, 1,620 cases have proven fraud. Now I think it is fair to say that this is a solution in search of a problem.
TODD: Wait a minute. How much fraud is ok? I would say zero. [01:34:45]
MORAN: It depends on if you're going to disenfranchise Americans who have the right to vote.
TODD: So how much fraud is ok? What's an acceptable number?
MORAN: So they tried this in Kansas. And they looked at, and they found a handful -- I think less than 20.
TODD: So that's an acceptable number of fraud in your mind?
CUCCINELLI: There was only one.
(CROSSTALKING)
CUCCINELLI: There was only one --
MORAN: They would have -- if they had gone through, they would have disenfranchised 33,000.
TODD: No one's disenfranchised.
PHILLIP: Yes, they are.
(CROSSTALKING)
TODD: That's not true.
PHILLIP: Yes, it is.
TODD: Every person who's eligible to vote can register and can vote. It's the easiest country to vote in in the world.
MORAN: Yes. But it's --
TODD: But why is it crazy to think that --
(CROSSTALKING)
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Because -- can I tell you what --
(CROSSTALKING)
SELLERS: -- can I tell you? That's not -- because this is -- and this is -- this is what drives me nuts. This is not a voter ID bill. Stop saying that. That's not true.
TODD: Are you for voter ID, though?
SELLERS: Voter ID, fine. We're here. This is not voter ID.
Can we actually talk here? Can we -- talk about what the issue is in the Save Act?
PHILLIP: Right.
SELLERS: The issue is proving your citizenship. Voter ID is what they did in Indiana back in 2004, 2006. Voter ID is when you show up, you have to present an ID Which proves your residency in the state.
What people have done throughout the states is say that, look if you don't have a driver's license, you can use a utility bill, you can use a college -- a college ID.
TODD: That's not voter ID.
SELLERS: That actually is voter ID.
(CROSSTALKING)
TODD: No. Photo ID Issued by the government. You should have to have one of those.
SELLERS: But you know what's crazy? What we're talking about is disenfranchising --
TODD: It's not disenfranchising.
SELLERS: Can I finish?
TODD: Anyone can get it.
SELLERS: They're only 50 -- 50 percent of Americans don't have a valid birth certificate or passport. That is what's required under the save act. That's not voter ID.
What? What is not?
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Let me let me tell you a story.
CUCCINELLI: You listed --
(CROSSTALKING)
CUCCINELLI: It's the same as real ID and --
TODD: You have to prove citizenship.
CUCCINELLI: -- a whole bunch of other stuff.
ALLISON: So when you try and get your ID, you need two proofs of citizenship. Most of the time, or proof of identification. Most of the time. It is a birth certificate. If you have a birth certificate, then you can use a utility bill. Neither one of those have your photo on it, I want to point out.
If you don't have a birth certificate, you need like five forms of ID, which sometimes can be challenging.
I'm telling you, as someone who had a grandmother who did not have her birth certificate, she was born in Panama City, Florida, ok.
The only -- my mom had to call the board of elections in Panama City, Florida to try and get proof of her birth. She is living. She is breathing. She is a black woman. She has lived nowhere else than Youngstown -- well, that's not true. And a couple of other cities -- but primarily in Youngstown, Ohio.
Do you know how they said that she could prove her ID? A family bible. Now you want to tell me a family bible is how we are -- that's the law in a state like Florida.
Voter ID laws do raise the threshold and make it harder. There is a significant amount of Americans that don't have passports because they've never left the country. Passports are expensive, so if you want to pay for everyone to get a passport, great. Make it easy like that.
Or they don't have access to their birth certificate and it is not easy --
TODD: You could get access to your birth certificate.
ALLISON: Yes.
TODD: Everyone in America should do the work to get that.
(CROSSTALKING)
ALLISON: What I'm saying is -- it is not to get access to your birth certificate because you need other forms of ID to get access to your birth certificate. But you can't get your birth certificate if you don't have those IDs and you can't get those IDs if you don't have your birth certificate.
It's circular.
(CROSSTALKING)
PHILLIPS: Isn't this also just about the fact that Trump lost the last election and hasn't --
ALLISON: And he's mad.
SELLERS: I don't think Ken believes that he lost in 2020. Ken, do you believe he lost in 2020?
CUCCINELLI: Yes. He swore Joe Biden in, saw the whole thing. Yes.
SELLERS: But did Joe Biden win rightfully because you mentioned this thing about Hunter Biden's laptop and you went into this rabbit hole.
CUCCINELLI: He won.
But I think Zuckerberg is wrongfully and I think the censorship that took place with Joe Biden's full knowledge on the Hunter Biden laptop is -- wasn't illegal, but it was cheating. PHILLIP: The president continues -- the president continues to believe
that he won an election that he lost and now is trying to fashion American policy around that falsehood.
Is that really how we should be operating in this country? That he wants to outlaw mail-in ballots, even though Republicans utilize them and win when they -- when they exist, just because he thinks, wrongly, that he won an election that he lost?
TODD: I think he lawfully lost in 2020. I don't think we ought to have mail-in ballots. I do think you ought to have voter ID, and I don't think that congress ought to do it. I think the states ought to do it.
But I think every state in the country should have voter ID and no mail-in ballots. That is the only right way to run an election that has no fraud. And I don't see why -- it's even -- its even an issue.
And the American people don't either. About 80 percent of Americans think we ought to have voter ID in every state with a photograph issued by the state, not a utility bill. That's not voter ID. You can steal that out of the apartment mail room. You need a voter ID.
SELLERS: You realize that's the law in certain states?
TODD: I do.
SELLERS: You just said pass it down to states. And that is the law.
TODD: Every state -- part of the Help America Vote Act.
SELLERS: I know.
TODD: Every state --
(CROSSTALKING)
TODD: -- and it's inadequate.
Every state should have a government issued photo ID as a requirement to show up to vote.
SELLERS: So are you going to --
(CROSSTALKING)
[01:39:45]
SELLERS: Let me ask you this question? Let me ask you this question. Fundamentally, conservative Republicans, are you going to pay for it?
TODD: I think every state that requires it pays for the voter.
(CROSSTALKING)
SELLERS: Yes or no. Are you going to --
(CROSSTALKING)
TODD: If you will say yes and get rid of the mail-in voting? Yes.
SELLERS: So you're going to pay for it?
TODD: If you'll get rid of mail voting?
SELLERS: No, no, no. Not if.
ALLISON: It doesn't replace it.
(CROSSTALKING)
SELLERS: No. If you want people to have -- if you -- there's no if. Do you want people to have ID or no?
TODD: It's a grand bargain.
SELLERS: Do you want people to have an ID or not.
TODD: Oh, free ID. Yes, free ID Of course.
SELLERS: So you want -- the state's going to pay for it.
TODD: Absolutely. Absolutely.
SELLERS: The states going to pay for it.
TODD: Absolutely. They do in Tennessee.
SELLERS: Ok.
ALLISON: But you know --
(CROSSTALKING)
ALLISON: -- but you know what also is in the save act is like when people motor voter bill, right. When people go --
MORAN: You could assist them.
ALLISON: -- assist them. And it's actually trying to remove that. So when people actually go to get a photo ID from a state agency and then could also easily register to vote because they've already proven who they are because they have a photo ID, in that bill -- in that bill, it is taking that assistance at the DMV out. So it is again putting another unnecessary barrier.
CUCCINELLI: You can still register at DMV.
SELLERS: And you should be able to -- and you should be able to register the same day too, right, Ken.
CUCCINELLI: No. As you vote -- absolutely not. 30 days out. 30 days out.
PHILLIP: Why? Why do the goalposts keep moving for Republicans?
MORAN: Because they lose Republicans.
TODD: No, it's not because we're trying to make fraud to zero.
PHILLIP: Look. Let me -- let me finish my question because it seems to me that at all these different junctures, Republicans have been talking about voter fraud.
They, you know, they got Help America Vote. Some states have voter ID. Georgia, the state that Trump thinks that he won when he lost, it has a voter ID law on the books.
Even those things are not sufficient, even though the prevalence of fraud has not increased. So why does what you guys are asking for keep changing and keep shifting?
CUCCINELLI: So I don't think that it does. I think attention has been brought to this after 2020 on the right. The left has been engaged in the -- in pursuing its goals in the process since 2004. And the right only really got into the game since 2020.
PHILLIP: So if I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying that since 2020 -- again since Trump lost an election that he rightfully lost, that Republicans are suddenly more fixated on changing the rules of voting.
CUCCINELLI: Cleaning up those areas that --
PHILLIP: Why? Because -- but why?
CUCCINELLI: Look, this isn't -- this isn't --
PHILLIP: If he lost and he rightfully lost.
CUCCINELLI: I'm sorry if we're on your turf after 20 years, but up until 2020, Democrats owned this space and Republicans weren't even participating in it.
(CROSSTALKING)
CUCCINELLI: And I think an awful lot of the pushback, election reform of any kind, So I work --
PHILLIP: Republicans dominate voter suppression.
CUCCINELLI: Republicans don't perform voter suppression.
TODD: There's no such thing.
PHILLIP: Ok, ok let me just --
CUCCINELLI: Look --
ALLISON: And there's no fraud either.
PHILLIP: I do want to understand what you're saying Ken -- finish your (INAUDIBLE)
CUCCINELLI: Let's set. If it's possible for anybody set Donald Trump aside. And look, I work in the election reform space. I've always had the opinion that if you polled 100 random Americans off the street and put them in a hotel and ask them to design an election system and you did it a thousand times, they'd come awfully close to one another.
And by the way, they'd all have voter ID. And they'd all make (INAUDIBLE) citizen.
TODD: With a photograph.
CUCCINELLI: Because it is overwhelmingly popular.
PHILLIP: It also makes election day a day off.
CUCCINELLI: Yes.
ALLISON: They do.
CUCCINELLI: No, you're right, they would do same day voter registration?
(CROSSTALKING)
ALLISON: Why not? Why wouldn't they do same day?
TODD: They'll do 30-day early voting.
PHILLIP: You know what else they would probably do? They would probably also have a system. It's 2026.
(CROSSTALKING)
PHILLIP: It's 2026. Americans I think probably believe there should be a system right now in which the government, who knows who is a citizen and who is not, who is eligible to vote and who is not, the government actually does its job and checks who is eligible to vote in the moment that someone is trying to vote.
CUCCINELLI: So this is --
PHILLIP: So these are -- these are pretty straightforward things that, yes Americans would want. But that's not what we're putting on the table.
CUCCINELLI: So this is a real interesting point. And I bet a lot of people watching don't know this. The U.S. government does not have a list of U.S. citizens.
I think there's a certain expectation out there that such a list exists. Really, you have to build the proof on an individual basis, because we have never maintained a national list of who's a U.S. citizen.
Other countries do this. ALLISON: But the states.
CUCCINELLI: But we have intentionally on a bipartisan basis, by the way, avoided that.
PHILLIP: The states do have access to, if the documentation that can prove that you are born in the United States exists, that means that the state has it, ok.
So your birth certificate, the state has that. So there may not be a national registry of American citizens --
CUCCINELLI: Right.
PHILLIP: -- but every state knows who was born in their jurisdiction.
CUCCINELLI: Yes.
PHILLIP: Every state -- the federal government does know who's been naturalized. There is a list of naturalized citizens.
CUCCINELLI: We know naturalized citizens.
PHILLIP: Yes. So those are the people who are eligible to vote, the naturalized ones.
CUCCINELLI: Yes.
PHILLIPS: So this information does exist. I don't think its accurate to suggest that it doesn't. The government is the keeper of the information.
CUCCINELLI: I'm not arguing with you on this point. I'm pointing out there are a lot of people who really don't want the U.S. government to have one comprehensive --
[01:44:51]
PHILLIP: I didn't say the U.S. -- I didn't say the U.S. government. I didn't say the U.S. government.
(CROSSTALKING)
PHILLIP: I said the states. The states are managing elections.
CUCCINELLI: That's right. I heard you -- the states do not have -- and it's clear now, we should not have one national election law. We should not have the national government running elections because it makes them -- not having the federal government run all elections makes elections much harder to steal as Donald Trump found out.
TODD: Quite true.
CUCCINELLI: -- because the Decentralization of the -- of the election process means that in local areas at the state level as well, people are proud to find and count and tabulate and present the voice of their communities, whether they are Republicans or whether they are Democrats. That's why Trump couldn't get those 1170 votes or whatever it was.
PHILLIP: And that's ultimately why --
MORAN: Because they were -- they were Georgians.
ALLISON: Yes.
MORAN: And they were not going to let this fellow -- and frankly it gives me the willies when Donald Trump says, if you pass this law, they won't win an election for 50 years.
PHILLIP: And by they --
ALLISON: You know what else is in the save act? The other thing that's in the save act is prosecuting election administrators who make a mistake when people are registering to vote, like sending them to jail.
That's intimidation of the people that you're talking about. The Ruby Freemans, the Shaye Mosses that --
CUCCINELLI: You don't like the Brad Raffenspergers, the local people who love their communities.
HR-1 one, the Democrats Washington takeover of elections had a criminal provision that was wildly, vaguely worded of impeding anyone registering to vote or exercising any right under the bill and what they were aiming at was local officials who, say at a DMV, someone presents and can't speak English, but that state has automatic voter registration because that was also an HR-1, it was mandated in HR-1.
And so if you said, you know, are you -- are you a citizen or are you qualified, that could be prosecuted.
ALLISON: No. That's not what was in HR-1.
CUCCINELLI: It was in HR-1.
ALLISON: I'm quite familiar with HR-1, I hope.
CUCCINELLI: So am I.
ALLISON: Yes. It wasn't in HR-1.
CUCCINELLI: And --
ALLISON: And this provision is not what you're suggesting.
CUCCINELLI: A third one, there's a third provision where the Democrats took away penalties from non-citizens voting who were registered by the mandates of HR-1. So yes, it was illegal, but there was no penalty.
PHILLIP: Well, I mean how are you going to penalize somebody for an administrative error, I think --
ALLISON: Right.
PHILLIP: That's the purpose of this law.
Todd: The purpose of HR-1 --
(CROSSTALKING)
PHILLIP: -- because as we know as we know, that is actually -- that's actually something that --
SELLERS: If you sign up for selective service, why don't you get registered to vote at 18?
PHILLIP: We've got to leave it there.
Coming up next, one topic that is looming over tonight's speech is the Epstein files. And there's some new details tonight that dozens of FBI witness interviews appear to be missing from those released files.
We'll discuss that next.
[01:47:45]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: The Epstein files, Jeffrey Epstein and the survivors were not mentioned at all in the president's speech tonight, but they were still a subject in the room. Many Democrats tonight wore pins that said "Stand with survivors, release the files". And some Democrats even brought some survivors as their guests.
There are some new revelations tonight that dozens of FBI witness interviews from the Epstein investigation appear to be missing from the trove of files released by the Department of Justice last month.
Among those missing files are interviews that three women gave related to a woman who accused President Trump of assaulting her decades ago.
These allegations, and I think what seems to be, according to some of the lawmakers who are responsible for this bill, by and large, millions of pages of Epstein files missing.
It really does raise some questions about whether we can really take at face value that all these files are out there.
TODD: The sooner the administration gets this, gets past this, the better off they'll be. It's a -- it's a -- its a massive task. I don't envy the Department of Justice although they did have some time to prepare for it.
I do wish that perhaps Democrats had been interested in this when Merrick Garland was the attorney general, and we might be done with it by now. We'd have justice for the victims by now. But Democrats were not interested in pushing their own attorney
general to get these files out back when they had the White House and Department of Justice. But I do think the administration needs to go as quickly as they can.
SELLER: It's sad that you have a conversation about sex abuse and the largest sex trafficking ring, and the most powerful one that this country has ever seen, and instead of addressing it head on that you see -- and this is what drives the survivors crazy. You see the political gamesmanship because immediately it's Democrats, it's Merrick Garland, it's this, that and the third.
I mean listen, the person who brought this to light was Donald Trump in 2015. He was the first person to mention Epstein and his sex trafficking ring. And the fascinating part is Republicans were talking about Democrats having sex trafficking rings in pizza shops and with no evidence.
But here we have voluminous evidence and files and files that have gone missing and yet and still Republicans are like, just don't believe your lying eyes.
The fact is, you're seeing the rest of the world get it right. From Prince Andrew -- I don't even know if you can call him that anymore, but Andrew from the block, the former Prince Andrew from around the corner. You see, Andrew, I mean, you see -- you see individuals outside of government. You see people resigning every single day for their relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
But when the president is mentioned, it's crickets. Anybody else is mentioned is mentioned, it's crickets.
(CROSSTALKING)
PHILLIP: Is the Justice Department covering up -- covering up these files that mention Trump? And by the way, I mean not to say that the allegations are corroborated or anything like that, but their existence is -- we know that they exist and we know that they have not been released. Are they covering that part of it up?
MORAN: They might well be. But there are so many of them. They're so voluminous, and he's in it so much that they can't quite get it all covered up, if that's what they're trying to do.
[01:54:43]
MORAN: Trump has been proven to be a liar by these files. He said he was never on Epstein's plane. There is evidence that he was. And there are at least now, two women who allege that he sexually assaulted them.
And so that's a problem. And I say Democrat, Republican, prince, sheikh president of Harvard, bring them all down. And I think that is what people -- this has been a terrifying view into the elite in this country and around the world that they actually think they can get away with this. And the impunity is what's infuriating. ALLISON: I say it over and over. There's one person in jail right now
related to these files. And there are hundreds of victims. Something is not happening that should be happening.
And yes, we waited too late to pay attention to it, sure. But like never -- it's never too late to make it right.
I actually thought that Trump might acknowledge the survivors in the room tonight, because he has a way of still positioning himself to say, I'm innocent in this, and it would have -- his base wants him to do something with these files and acknowledging them, like, if you can spend, I'm glad we won the gold in hockey, but if you can spend like ten minutes clapping for the hockey team, you can spend ten minutes clapping for survivors who made it to the other side.
PHILLIP: Have we ever heard him say anything positive or supportive of the survivors? I mean -- and if not, why not?
CUCCINELLI: I don't listen to every single thing he says. But he campaigned on opening these files up when the Biden administration wasn't. And, you know, they're coming out. You've got Republican leadership in the House, in particular, that's pushing to get more of them out.
And, you know, it's only a matter of time. I agree with Brad, sooner is better. But it's also -- we're actually seeing movement we've never seen before.
So I have a lot of -- I have faith in this process. And I think we're getting more transparency than we've ever seen before.
PHILLIP: All right, everybody. Thank you all very much for being here on this very late night. Thank you for watching NEWS NIGHT.
The news continues next.
[01:56:45]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
