Return to Transcripts main page
CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Tests Midterm Message That Focuses On Communists; Trump Escalates Attacks On Dems; Vance Dismisses Watergate; California Governor Proposes A National Billionaire Tax; Trump Gives Goodie Bags To South African Refugees Upon Entering The United States. Aired 10- 11p ET
Aired June 26, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, as more socialists win across America, Donald Trump turns their victories into his midterm message.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Communism is very easy to sell.
PHILLIP: Plus, J.D. Vance suggests Richard Nixon's sins would be just a normal day now.
J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: If Watergate happened tomorrow, it would be like a 12-hour news story.
PHILLIP: Also, tax the billionaires, just not in his state.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): It's time for an economic reset.
PHILLIP: Gavin Newsom floats a plan for the nation that he opposes in Cali.
And while the president is giving white South Africans welcome bags, he's getting ready to boot hundreds of thousands of Haitians, thanks to a Supreme ruling.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST, THE MEGYN KELLY SHOW: Get out. Go home. Go back to (BLEEP) Haiti.
PHILLIP: Live at the table, Caroline Sunshine, Josh Doss, Arthur Aidala, and Leigh McGowan.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip, here with a special edition of NewsNight. This summer we're taking the show on some field trips, spending our days right here at the Food Network's Test Kitchen in New York. They're our sister company. And we, of course, have a fabulous chef serving friends of the show, and she has a special treat for us at the end of tonight's show.
But, first, with the midterm elections now a little more than four months away, President Trump is taking his new political message out for a spin, and he's conjuring up a familiar boogeyman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: These are not social Democrats. These are hardcore, godless communists. They're godless communists. All communists are godless. They don't believe in God. This is the most serious threat to our country since its existence, in my opinion, 250 years ago. This is a major threat to our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Trump was making that pitch to Christian conservatives at the Faith and Freedom Coalition earlier today, just days after New York's primary elections where we saw three self-proclaimed Democratic socialists win their races. New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani endorsed all three of them.
And if Trump's message there wasn't clear enough for you, here is a little bit more of what we might expect to hear from now until Election Day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's happening right now in New York and California. But you'll start living in squalor. You'll live in squalor. There will be no food. There will be no housing. There will be no military. There will be no law and order. There will be no nothing. There will be no nothing. You'll be a third world inhabitant in every way, and everyone will suffer or die. You'll suffer or die. This is what happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, from socialism now to communism. Josh, I wonder what you think of the risk actually for Democrats in handing the Republicans a message like that.
JOSHUA DOSS, POLLSTER AND POLITICAL RESEARCHER: I don't think that they're handing the Republicans a message. The Democrats know what they're going to do. They're going to run that message where they can run it and across the, the country where they can't run it, they're not going to run it.
President Trump going into this midterms with a significant advantage because of his performance, right? Every -- and we see him do this. He's just going to kind of like replace the caravan scare that he does at every midterm with the DSA, right? But I don't think it's going to work when you have gas prices as high as they are. I don't think it's going to work when you have Mamdani showing people that he can fill potholes with that same socialism that Donald Trump is trying to scare people out of, engaging with.
PHILLIP: I also think it hasn't really worked that well. I mean, they've been claiming that they would run Mamdani is a socialist and Democrats are socialist ads all over the country, and I don't know that it's really changed the dynamic in the special elections that we've seen thus far, and certainly not Trump's relationship with Mamdani. He has embraced him practically at the White House.
CAROLINE SUNSHINE, DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP'S 2024 CAMPAIGN: He has and vice versa with Mamdani. I mean, he's been two times, I think, and, frankly, I've watched the president treat Mamdani better than I've watched him treat members of his own party like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Thomas Massie.
PHILLIP: That is actually true.
[22:05:00]
SUNSHINE: And I think he actually -- I think, on a personal note there, I think the president likes that Mamdani's a New Yorker, and I think, in a weird way, he has respect for how hard it is to win the New York City mayor's race, and he respects him as a showman and the kind of the way he practices politics.
Funny enough, the president views AOC in a similar way. He always says she's like Evita. It is true, right? She's the young, shining face of socialism, Eva Peron, right? I'm one of you. Look at me. You can see yourself in me.
But the president and I do agree that I think communism is absolutely the most pressing threat facing our country, and I'm glad that he sees that because this country will die by suicide from electing socialists before Iran ever launches a nuclear weapon at us. So, I do think we're on the right path with that.
But it's going to be an age thing. The word communism, communist, is a dirty label to people over 60. Americans under 40, not so much.
LEIGH MCGOWAN, PODCAST HOST, POLITICSGIRL: I mean, we're just picking a new scare tactic, as far as I'm concerned. This is getting insane. He's up there saying you're going to live in squalor with no food and no housing and no law and order. We have that for many people right now. That's why people are voting for Democratic socialists, because they want government to look out for them again. They want affordable housing. They want to have groceries that they can afford.
And I keep thinking about, like, that old expression that's like, capitalism, only a few can be rich. Communism, nobody can be rich. And Democratic socialism is anyone can be rich, but no one should be poor. And I think that's what they're trying to go for here, and I think that's what we should be looking at because they're really modeling themselves after the Nordic countries, Denmark, Sweden, those kind of places, that have the highest ranked happiest country and citizens in the world.
And I think there's a lot of young Americans particularly that are like, this doesn't work for me at all. I have a worse quality of living than my parents ever did. We are the first generation that are like that. What can we do differently? And this is what we could do differently.
PHILLIP: Well, let me play what AOC, said just tonight about this new line from the Republicans. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): The one thing that we know is that the Republican Party's brand is fear, and they have to constantly churn, what they want people to be afraid of, to be afraid of socialists, to be afraid of immigrants, to be afraid of women, to be afraid of -- they constantly want Americans in fear of somebody. Because if you are not afraid of someone who is your neighbor, you're going to realize who's actually pickpocketing you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look, 7 percent of people who could vote in those Congressional races voted. Wrap your brain around that. 93 percent of people who are eligible to vote did not vote. So, saying that the, the, the message is resonating or it's not resonating, what's resonating is people aren't voting.
People don't care. People -- there is -- now you can do early voting, right? I voted early because my son was playing baseball on the baseball field on Saturday, and I looked, oh, wow, I can just go in here, and I voted. It's so easy. It took me seven minutes to go vote. So, we have made it very easy for people to go vote, but they've decided not to vote.
So, you can't -- this is not a statistical analysis that you can rely upon about what message is resonating or what message is not resonating when the 93 percent -- I mean, the message is people don't care or they don't think their vote counts, but, you know, you can't say, well, it's a huge thing when it's 7 percent.
PHILLIP: That's, I think, New York, but this is not --
AIDALA: But we're talking about the three Congressional races in New York. We're talking about Mamdani.
PHILLIP: Yes. But this is not like that Democratic socialism has been on the scene. I mean, Bernie Sanders ran for president twice as a Democratic socialist. AOC is a known Democratic socialist and she's --
AIDALA: Right, and Bernie Sanders got nowhere, right? I mean, he got nowhere. I mean, Joe Biden was the candidate.
PHILLIP: You can either look at it as he got no, got nowhere, or he ran as a Democratic socialist and he basically was the runner-up in the Democratic primary. I mean --
SUNSHINE: He got shelled out.
PHILLIP: So, he went pretty far. He didn't go nowhere.
MCGOWAN: And Democratic socialism hasn't gone anywhere because it comes with the ideas that people want, which is things like affordable housing, affordable childcare, paid family leave --
AIDALA: This is a capitalistic society.
(CROSSTALKS)
DOSS: No, that's true. This is a capitalistic society. And today, I was just looking at some polling research today, 67 percent of Americans say that they are more afraid of running out of food than death, than death. And that's -- and that we've had a 16 percent increase since President Trump has been in office.
My point is this, if you don't want people to be curious about socialism, capitalism has to work a lot better. It's really --
AIDALA: I don't think President Trump would disagree with what you just said.
DOSS: Well, guess what? Today, President Trump was out here talking about America will never be a socialist country, America will never be a communist country. When he just asked for $11 billion in subsidies for farmers because capitalism is killing American agriculture, his capitalistic war in the Mideast is, is not allowing fertilizer to get to American agriculture.
So, it's failing all around. It's killing people, right? And people are afraid and ready to do something else.
[22:10:02]
SUNSHINE: Yes.
AIDALA: Well -- go ahead.
SUNSHINE: People don't want socialism. This is exactly what you're saying.
MCGOWAN: They do want socialism.
SUNSHINE: They want capitalism, but capitalism -- we're living in late-stage capitalism, to use a Karl Marx's term.
DOSS: We're living in corporatism.
SUNSHINE: We're living in late-stage capitalism.
MCGOWAN: We're living in predatory capitalism.
SUNSHINE: Corporatism is where we are now where people feel like they can't have ownership in their society. Americans want to feel like they can own a part of their society. And too many Americans under 40, when the average age of the first-time home buyer is 40 years old, feel that they can't achieve ownership.
AIDALA: So, let me just ask you a question. When Mayor Mondale says, we're freezing the rents, we're freezing the rents, and if the landlords can't carry the buildings because the rents are frozen, he said, maybe we'll give the buildings -- give the buildings to the tenants. Do you think that's the American way?
SUNSHINE: No, he diagnoses the correct problem with the wrong solution.
PHILLIP: That comes from vaguely from the --
AIDALA: I mean, that's what he said. He said, he goes, we'll give the buildings, give the buildings to the tenants, not that they've earned them, not that they deserve them.
PHILLIP: I mean, I do think, though, you know, you're making a policy dispute with Mamdani, which I think is totally fair. But when you look at the fact that all of that being said, and, and trust me, everything was thrown at him but the kitchen sink, he's still the most popular politician in New York right now.
AIDALA: Listen, he's still in his honeymoon period. And you're going to think I'm being facetious, but I'm not. The New York Knicks winning two, and this winning streak, and that he's a Knicks fan, has helped him tremendously. Here in New York, this is a national show, but in New York, he's been on the cover of every newspaper with the Knicks and that has been wonderful for any mayor, whether it was Giuliani with the Yankees or him with the Knicks. He's still in a honeymoon period. Let's see what happens.
MCGOWAN: But he's also getting things accomplished, right?
AIDALA: I don't know what he's --
MCGOWAN: He's delivering. He's coming in, he's saying he'll do this --
(CROSSTALKS)
AIDALA: And you know who gets hurt when he freeze the rents? To some degree, to some degree, the tenants. You know why? Because you think the landlord's going to put in a new counter, you think the landlord's going to put in a new refrigerator.
PHILLIP: Well, he's arguing that they're not going to do that. He's arguing they're not doing that anyway.
AIDALA: But they -- but there's a percentage that is and there's a percentage that's not.
MCGOWAN: No, he came in and he stopped slum lords from not doing things to buildings that they have avoided for years. He came in and he balanced the budget. He came in and he filled the --
AIDALA: He didn't balance the budget. Hold on. Kathy Hochul balanced the budget. He went to the governor --
MCGOWAN: He worked together with her and made -- that's what politics is, is it not?
AIDALA: Eric Adams did that, as did Bill de Blasio, as did Bloomberg, as did Giuliani. MCGOWAN: So, do you think it's not worthwhile?
AIDALA: He didn't do anything unique except have to borrow money from the state.
PHILLIP: Let me just -- I just want to play one more thing. This is from Trump. This is -- remember today he was speaking at this conservative Christian conference, and he frames this whole debate as not just a threat against capitalism, but a threat against Christianity. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: These ruthless communists will attack all religions, but in particular Christianity. They always do. They're after Christianity more than any other religion.
They want to end religion. They have to end religion because their ideology doesn't work if you have strong religion, people like you that are so incredible and love our country so much and love God.
They will close your churches in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I guess it is a question also, when the rhetoric gets so wound up, do people just start to tune this out?
DOSS: I don't think so. I think that President Trump is actually touching on something that is very real there. There's been a relationship between capitalism and American Christianity for the longest time, right? And, honestly, you know, depending on how you're looking at it, both of those things have been, decently dangerous to Black Americans. Black Americans were the capital that allowed capitalism to exist, right, and also suffered the forced adoption of Christianity as well.
So, those two things actually do have a through line, and I think President Trump signals to his -- he throws red meat to his base, who sees those two things together, right? Their versions of Christianity don't want to give money to the poor. Their versions of Christianity don't want to take healthcare away from people, and that is what capitalism has been doing in America, for the longest time as well. So, I think he's hitting on something real.
SUNSHINE: I just want to say, though, I actually think it was American Christians that led part of the abolition movement against slavery. There were plenty of Christians who were leading the charge of liberating and ending slavery in this country.
MCGOWAN: I don't think anyone actually --
(CROSSTALKS)
SUNSHINE: I disagree with that, and I think many Christians -- MCGOWAN: My problem is I think he's using Christians again, he's using an entire religion again to fear them into having their religion taken away, which they are in no danger of it happening, to make them more afraid. So, if you're not afraid of communism, I'll give you poor, poor, being poor. If you're not afraid of that, I'll give you trans people. If you're not afraid of that, I'll say, we'll take your religion.
And I think the thing is that there's so many Americans out here that just want basic things, right? We want, like, affordable healthcare, housing, clean water and air, safe streets, good schools, like all these things, and we --
SUNSHINE: But they don't want to abolish ICE, which a lot of Democratic socialists want to do, and that's a position that 70 percent of Americans don't support.
[22:15:01]
And Americans might be kind of interested in some of the DSA --
MCGOWAN: I don't think you're right with the 70 percent of that.
SUNSHINE: Oh, I'm right. Fact-check me.
MCGOWAN: Sure, I will. That'd be great. Someone else fact-check her.
PHILLIP: All right. We'll do that in the break.
We do want to invite you over at home to join this debate. Head to cnn.com/abby. You can weigh in on this conversation, and we will get to some of your comments at the end of tonight's show.
But next for us here, J.D. Vance compares himself to Richard Nixon, and says Watergate would be just a 12-hour news story in today's era.
Plus, Gavin Newsom calls for a national billionaire's tax, while opposing one in his own state. We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, J.D. Vance attempts to rewrite history, telling donors at the Nixon Library that he doesn't think the Watergate scandal was a big deal at all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: I think that his historical legacy is enjoying a bit of a renaissance, but I think deservedly so. As I joked with Robert backstage, if Watergate happened tomorrow, it would be like a 12-hour news story, like the idea that it would have taken down a presidency is crazy.
And, by the way, if you look at the story of how the deep state took down Richard Nixon, it's not all that different from what the same groups of people, the same institutions tried to do to Donald Trump in the first Trump administration. There is a parallel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Just a quick history lesson for you. The Watergate scandal stemmed from a botched attempt of, authorized by Nixon aides, to bug the DNC offices at the Watergate Hotel. After investigations by the press and Congress, we learned that, one, Nixon was aware of the break-in, two, he directed hush money payments to the burglars to cover it up, and, three, he pressured the CIA to stop an FBI investigation into the matter. And, of course, it revealed that Nixon was secretly recording his White House conversations.
Is the point here that if you rehabilitate Nixon, who was also impeached, maybe you can rehabilitate Trump too as well because he's also been twice impeached?
AIDALA: Well, I mean, I don't know. I can't speak for the vice president, what the point he was trying to make. Look, there were things that President Nixon did during his presidency that were unique, right? He opened the door to China and his secretary of state was exceptional. You know, he got us out of Vietnam. So, there were many things that he did --
MCGOWAN: We could have been out of Vietnam before --
AIDALA: Yes, under Lyndon Johnson.
MCGOWAN: -- because of him.
AIDALA: Under the Democrat Lyndon Johnson, we could've gotten out, or under Kennedy. So, there's plenty of people you could've talked to. But, yes, Lyndon Johnson could've pulled the plug right there after Kennedy got killed, but he chose not to.
PHILLIP: But isn't that -- but, I mean, isn't that a different argument than what he's making?
AIDALA: But I don't -- yes, I don't agree.
PHILLIP: He's basically saying -- you're saying, let's talk about the good things.
AIDALA: What he's saying is sad. In my opinion --
PHILLIP: He's saying that the bad things weren't really bad and it was really just the deep state going after him.
AIDALA: You're correct.
PHILLIP: Which is not true.
AIDALA: You're correct. And it's sad. I think one of the points that he's making is there's been so many things that have happened from the time of Nixon until the time of Trump. Bill Clinton was impeached, right? He lied under oath. Nixon was never accused of lying under oath. Nixon was never impeached. He left before he was impeached. But he was --
PHILLIP: He was accused of authorizing a burglary and paying hush money.
AIDALA: And he left, and he resigned.
(CROSSTALKS)
AIDALA: Just to be clear, I didn't say I agreed that it would be a 12- hour news story. I never said that.
MCGOWAN: But I agree. It would be a 12-hour news story today. I do agree. Because there are so many other crimes happening that it would be -- that obstruction of justice, abuse of power, and contempt of Congress, which is what he would've been impeached for --
AIDALA: Hunter Biden, Bill Clinton, Obama with the Russian collusion.
MCGOWAN: I'm going to finish talking.
AIDALA: You know, there's plenty. That's the sad part.
MCGOWAN: Why don't you stop talking? I'm going to finish talking. Okay, great. So, here's the thing.
PHILLIP: We're all in --
MCGOWAN: We're all in. We're all in.
PHILLIP: Just to be clear, you interrupted him, he's interrupting you. It'd be better if none of us -- none of that happened.
MCGOWAN: Nixon went down -- we're both wearing our pink today, so we're just feisty little heartbeats.
Listen, it will be a 12-hour news story today because a lot has changed since then. And I think it's not just the crimes that have happened, it's not just what went down with whatever president at whatever time. We also had a president back when Nixon was who had the good sense to step down before he was impeached.
We had a Republican Party with the self-respect to get him to do it before he was impeached. We had an American press corps that would actually go out, discover the truth, print the truth, even if it was about the president, and not just say nothing because they wanted access and they wanted to write a book after.
SUNSHINE: How did the press corps do during Joe Biden? How did the press corps do then? Give me a break. You want to talk about a press corps not holding power to account? How many people in the liberal mainstream media covered up, this is extensively documented, for the Biden administration?
PHILLIP: What's the crime? SUNSHIHNE: You want to get some brass tacks down here.
PHILLIP: Caroline, what's the crime that you're alleging that Biden committed?
SUNSHINE: That when you are a journalist, you have an obligation to the truth.
PHILLIP: No, no, no. But you're trying to make --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on a second.
DOSS: What did Biden do?
PHILLIP: You're trying to make an analogy here, so what is the crime?
SUNSHINE: That the commander-in-chief was clearly unwell.
AIDALA: Right, compromised.
SUNSHINE: Compromised, and everybody around him, including people in power, and the media that is supposed to hold power to account.
PHILLIP: What was the ailment, Caroline? What was it? What was it?
SUNSHINE: I believe, and I say this with a lot of compassion. I say this with a lot of compassion. Joe Biden clearly had dementia --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Arthur, you're a lawyer.
[22:25:00]
You're a lawyer, Arthur. There is a difference between criminal activity and, and people who say that a president should step down because they're getting too old. I'm not saying that Joe Biden should've stayed in the presidency. I'm just saying they are fundamentally different things.
AIDALA: Okay. But what she was saying was what the critique of the media and what the media covers that's true and not true.
PHILLIP: Yes.
AIDALA: What she's saying is the media didn't cover how Joe Biden's demise --
PHILLIP: I do think that the media appropriately covered Nixon's crimes.
AIDALA: Yes.
MCGOWAN: That's what I'm saying. PHILLIP: Okay? That is an appropriate use of the media.
AIDALA: Yes.
PHILLIP: They covered his crimes.
AIDALA: Woodward, I would say, that was historic.
PHILLIP: Pat on the back to Bob Woodward and Bernstein.
MCGOWAN: But if we could, we have a crime that's way bigger, like Epstein, and no one is covering it. No one is talking about it.
AIDALA: But Epstein's not a crime of the presidency.
MCGOWAN: Yes, it is. He's directly involved. We even know that there was a --
AIDALA: How is he directly involved?
PHILLIP: Wait, hold on. Hold on. I will say -- listen, I will say this about on the Epstein piece, we don't know that the president was involved in any crimes related to Epstein.
MCGOWAN: But we do know he's been there.
PHILLIP: So, I do think that, again, we're talking about a former president who I think history has appropriately assessed his legacy, his failings. At the time, his own party thought that he had gone too far and said, you need to step down.
And I don't -- J.D. Vance's, desire to rehabilitate that, he's not alone in that, by the way. This has been a project from some on the right for a long time. But to what end? What are we trying to say about what is appropriate for the presidency by doing that?
DOSS: I have no idea. I'll never try to speak for J.D. Vance. I think J.D. Vance is actually quite smart. He went to Yale. He knows what he's doing by making these -- like trying to beautify Nixon's presidency. One thing I can say from watching that is that, like, in a lot of ways, I actually do agree that President Trump is like Nixon because, you know, Nixon was awful. Nixon was racist.
I remember Nixon in an audio tape with Reagan laughing about black people being descripted as monkeys. I remember President Trump posting a video of, the former president, Barack Obama, and his wife, Michelle Obama, as monkeys. So, I know they have similarities there that are just like stark. But I don't know what, J.D. Vance was trying to say there. I don't know what he was trying to do there.
AIDALA: But he was also at the Nixon Library, wasn't he, Abby, when he made those remarks? So, of course, what do you think, he's going to badmouth Nixon when he's at the Nixon Library?
PHILLIP: You -- I actually think -- Arthur, I'm going to compliment you. I think you appropriately cited things that you can pull out of Nixon's legacy and say, let's talk about these things, right? He had a choice in that moment.
What do we talk about when we talk about Richard Nixon? Do we talk about his relationship with China? Do we talk about the policy decisions that he made, or do we talk about the fact that the deep state went after him? He chose the deep state and made an analogy between himself and the current president and the crimes.
AIDALA: For the record, I did not agree with that statement, for the record.
PHILLIP: That's what's amazing to me.
AIDALA: And, you know, when you talk about the racist stuff, my favorite president's Bill Clinton, but he said horrible things about Italians, horribly, called Mario Cuomo a Mafioso. So, you know --
MCGOWAN: So, it's all good. Everyone --
(CROSSTALKS)
AIDALA: How do you feel about Bill Clinton caught on tape calling Mario Cuomo a Mafioso when he was the sitting governor of New York State?
MCGOWAN: Like why bully him?
AIDALA: And then he go --
MCGOWAN: You're bullying him.
AIDALA: I ain't bullying Josh. Maybe in the (INAUDIBLE) chair --
PHILLIP: I don't think Josh is being bullied. Okay, let me let Josh respond and then we'll go to --
DOSS: I don't even know where you're going with that point, to be honest with you.
AIDALA: Well, I'm talking about presidents saying stupid, horrible things.
DOSS: And President Trump has said a lot of them.
AIDALA: And so has President Clinton.
DOSS: And probably the most of them. And then Nixon ended his career with 22 percent approval rating, which is the lowest ever. President Trump is tied for the second lowest ever at 34 percent.
AIDALA: Okay.
PHILLIP: And I will say that even to this day, just 19 percent of Republicans would describe Nixon as having an outstanding presidency. So, I'm not sure what island J.D. Vance wants to be on on that one.
Speaking of things that you should not say out loud, our new show, Confessions and Obsessions, is now streaming right now. I sit with a group of familiar faces, and they reveal things that they want to get off their chest and a few things they cannot stop thinking about. Check it out at cnn.com/confessionsandobsessions or on the CNN app.
Next for us, though, Gavin Newsom versus Gavin Newsom. What he thinks is a good idea for the country but not for his state.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Tonight, California's Governor Gavin Newsom is calling for a national tax on the ultra-wealthy as he weighs a potential 2028 Presidential run.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): The system the American founders built, well, it was designed to prevent the concentration of power in a few hands, but we've allowed that concentration to happen anyway, slowly and in plain sight over the course of decades and decades, but we can reverse it. We can reverse it together. It's time to democratize the American economy, to save our democracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: But come November, voters in his home state are going to decide whether or not to impose a similar one-time 5 percent tax on billionaires, but Newsom says he will not support that initiative.
[22:35:07]
He argues the California plan will drive businesses out of the state and that revenue would not be spread around enough.
Leigh, you're a Californian. Is it political opportunism for Gavin Newsom to suddenly come out in favor of a wealth tax when he opposes it at home?
LEIGH MCGOWAN, PODCAST HOST, "POLITICSGIRL": I think he could make that argument, but that's not the argument I would make. I would say that the thing about what's on our ballot, which is a 5 percent tax on anyone over a billion dollars and then it gets divided up into certain places, what his argument is that's not enough and it's not going to go far enough.
What he's talking about for the entire country, which I prefer anyway instead of doing it on a state-by-state basis, is because the argument people always make with Mamdani when he came in, with Gavin in California, is that people will leave. They will leave. The rich people will leave if they're taxed this much.
Now, I'm of the inclination to say, okay, go, bye-bye, but if that is the argument, if you make the entire country the same and you go over the ultra, so you're making the tax rates now not just so they serve the ultra-rich, not just so they serve a certain class of people, a true minimum tax rate where you change inheritance tax and you change what we do with the tax codes, including the corporate tax rate, and you make sure the corporate tax rates are higher. This is a completely different argument than just a 5 percent on billion.
PHILLIP: He also made the argument about money fleeing when it comes to California. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWSOM: But at a national level, we're competing with 50 states. Capital flows and moves, that's real. It's not imagined, it's very real.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I mean, capital also can flow across borders, too, so it's not as if a national tax would eliminate the idea of people, rich people, moving from one place to another to avoid being taxed on their, by the way, unrealized assets, which is what this is largely about.
CAROLINE SUNSHINE, DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP'S 2024 CAMPAIGN: Yes, I was sitting with a billionaire in Europe and a table just like this, his yacht's there, his helicopter's there, there's a group just like this, and he asked all the Americans, what's the most pressing problem facing your country?
And everyone said China and social media and political polarization, and he said, no, the most pressing problem facing your country is the growing gap between the haves and have-nots. And he's correctly diagnosed the problem.
But Gavin Newsom saying you're going to tax billionaires is the wrong solution. Billionaires have the most economic mobility out of anybody. They can do exactly just that.
Oh, the U.S. tax code isn't favorable to me anymore? All right, cool. I'll just leave.
I could name three more policies that Gavin Newsom could name, but he won't because he's a coward, that would actually help create wealth and create a thriving middle class in America, which is what we need to do.
One, we could keep up with mass deportations. I mean, illegal immigrants compete and depreciate the wages of the American working class, making it harder for them to afford life, to have ownership, get into the stock market, have capital. That's entirely untrue. The true income tax.
PHILLIP: That is entirely untrue and has not been proven at all, statistically.
SUNSHINE: We could cut student loan debt. We have so many people who are in debt. We have so many people in our country who are saddled with student loan debt for degrees that are now worthless.
We should forgive that student loan debt. We're not going to create more wealth by taxing billionaires, and that's what we need to focus on is creating wealth for people.
PHILLIP: Just out of curiosity, so when Biden forgave the student loan debt, you were good with that?
SUNSHINE: Absolutely. I would love to see Republicans embrace that. I'm serious.
PHILLIP: All right. Wealth tax. I mean, again, I'm just wondering the timing of this.
It's coming a couple of days after these Democratic socialists win these elections. Gavin Newsom wants to run for President. He is reading the tea leaves, and the tea leaves say kind of what Caroline's saying, which is that people are fed up with rich people being stupidly rich, and they continue to be poor.
And when you look at the taxes paid by the top share of the population versus how much wealth they have, look at this chart, you don't even need to be great at charts to see what's going on here. Their wealth has far outstripped their share of taxes over the last several decades.
So that's the reality, that most people, they don't know the numbers, but they're living this reality where they just see rich people getting really rich, and their taxes are going up this much, a little smidge, and their lifestyles are not improving.
ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Okay, just let them go. Just let them go. They pay, I think they pay 49 percent, 1 percent pays like 50 percent of the taxes. So if they leave, it's not very good for the sanitation department, for the fire department, for the Department of Education. We need them to stay here. We need their income.
With that being said, look, we have a tax system that's incremental, right? If you make $30,000, you only pay a small amount of tax. You pay over $100,000, a little bit more, quarter of a million, you pay a little bit more. Okay, so if you pay a billion, if you make a billion, God bless you, you should pay a little bit more. I have no problem with billionaires paying a little bit more.
PHILLIP: But you know the problem is that that's not how it works when you get to that level of wealth.
[22:40:07]
When you get to that level of wealth, what I'm saying is that when you get to that level of wealth, here's the conundrum that we're in as a country. When you get to that level of wealth, you're not making really any money on paper. You might be making a thousand bucks, right? And what they're doing, they have assets, and they take loans against their assets. Those loans are untaxed, it's free money.
AIDALA: Correct.
PHILLIP: And I will say, the one thing about this proposal from Gavin Newsom is that it does talk about ending that tax-free lifestyle loophole, meaning you take a loan against your assets in stock, and the IRS has nothing to do with it. That's just free cash to you.
Here's Ro Khanna explaining that part of the proposal and why it's so popular, even among the wealthy. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Taxing the loans on assets is something that the tech oligarchs themselves have proposed. You ask any of these tech billionaires, I know them, they say, well, why don't you just tax the loans on assets? Why?
Because that will raise a fraction of the revenue of an actual wealth tax, the kind that Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren or I have proposed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I mean, that seems like something a lot of people can get behind.
JOSHUA DOSS, POLLSTER AND POLITICAL RESEARCHER: I think a lot of people can get behind it. I think that the majority of people are at their wits' end with this. You were just saying this earlier, 77 percent of Americans think that the billionaires should get taxed more, and that's like 65 percent of Republicans.
You know it's bad when you've got conservative Republicans saying that this is something that they need to get on. So, I think absolutely people can get behind this, and people have to get behind this. Billionaires are stalling the American economy, and sitting on that much wealth is violent. A billionaire can't buy a billion dollars' worth of groceries.
MCGOWAN: I will also say that economists and experts are genuinely concerned that if we don't do something about the inheritance tax loopholes that we have right now, we are going to make a permanent aristocracy in this country that cannot lose their wealth, that we are going to have such a divide if we let it, within the next 10 to 20 years, let one generation give $123 trillion to the next generation.
SUNSHINE: What about Ro Khanna's accumulated wealth, all the stock trading he's done in Congress? That's way more popular with the American people than taxing billionaires.
MCGOWAN: It is too much to be able to give all your children to not have to pay taxes on the things that you, if I want to buy a house.
AIDALA: It's 35 percent tax on the inheritance tax.
MCGOWAN: No, they do not pay taxes the way the rest of us regular old folks pay taxes. They just don't. And to make that argument is intolerable.
AIDALA: But then, you're not involving the wealth base.
PHILLIP: I mean, the crucial piece is that only above a certain amount of wealth, I think it's like $15 million or something like that. So, that's what she's talking about. Yes, there are taxes on inheritances, but only above a certain amount. And there are lots of ways, lots of ways to get around it.
AIDALA: In New York, we have state tax and state tax besides the federal tax.
PHILLIP: Next for us, the White House is giving fancy goody bags to white South African refugees and they're about to deport, at the same time that this is happening, thousands of Haitian refugees. We'll discuss next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Tonight, a split screen of the Trump administration's treatment of refugees. As the Supreme Court gives the White House the green light to deport hundreds of thousands of legal migrants like Haitians, we're learning now that at the same time, the White House is rolling out the red carpet for white South African refugees.
According to "The New York Times," the administration is putting together welcome bags that include an Android tablet, an American flag, copies of the Constitution, and literature sanitizing American and South African history, claiming that South Africa promotes discrimination against white people. They will also give the refugees a report commissioned by Trump downplaying the role of slavery in America's founding, and a children's book accusing South Africa's government of favoring the black population.
Look, it is a fact that in the last year, since October 2025, 6000 plus South African refugees have been allowed into this country. Three have been allowed in from Afghanistan, and zero people have been allowed in from anywhere else.
How is that not a policy? And by the way, only white South Africans, not black South Africans. How is that not a racist policy?
SUNSHINE: So, South Africans are Africans. They are citizens of the nation of South Africa, they reside on the continent of Africa.
For decades, this country, they are African. Whether they are white or black, they are African. And for decades, this country has taken in millions of refugees from several African nations that have been destabilized.
Somalia, so much so that we've changed the entire demographic of a U.S. state. Somalia, Eritrea, South Sudan, Sudan, Democratic Republic of the Congo.
PHILLIP: What do all those places have in common?
SUNSHINE: We've taken in millions.
PHILLIP: What do all those places have in common, Caroline?
SUNSHINE: What they all have in common is every single one of those nations that I just listed, including South Africa, are African countries. We've taken in millions from the others, but we're taking in 6000 from South Africa. And everyone's up in arms.
[22:50:05]
MCGOWAN: Caroline, you know what's going on here, and it's actually the racism that's going on here.
SUNSHINE: The 6000 whites that we're taking in, when we've taken in millions all across the continent. It's so embarrassing. All are African.
PHILLIP: It is not that. Obviously. Those are places where there is actual conflict, where there is actual war, where people are actually being killed.
Trump is basically saying, the only people who we will let into this country are white people.
MCGOWAN: They're African.
SUNSHINE: Whether they're white or black, they're African.
MCGOWAN: Caroline, you are making us look ridiculous right now. You are making us look ridiculous. This is a completely racist argument. You can keep talking, but it's completely racist. If I say, only white people are allowed in, it's racist. It is racist.
And then they gave them a gift bag of basically white, Christian, supremacist propaganda. I don't know why you're going on about this. It makes us look absolutely idiotic.
AIDALA: Back up. Josh, back up.
DOSS: I don't even know where to start with this. Is this how you actually feel? Are you giving your real opinions right now? I feel like this is not how you actually feel about this.
SUNSHINE: The United States has had an extremely generous refugee policy in regards to several African nations. Now that South Africa is one of them, there's a problem. When was the problem when we were taking in millions from every other destabilized African nation?
DOSS: This is very deliberately obtuse, I would say. I'm going to skip over some of this.
SUNSHINE: Can somebody explain the expropriation act in South Africa and what's going on there?
PHILLIP: The first thing about that is that what you're saying, that expropriation act, no property has been expropriated. You know that, right?
SUNSHINE: No, that's not true.
PHILLIP: It is true.
SUNSHINE: Read the executive order.
PHILLIP: Hold on. No property has actually been expropriated.
SUNSHINE: I think there's 6000 South Africans that would beg to differ.
PHILLIP: You're talking about something that is basically hypothetical. Here's the reality of life in South Africa.
Three decades after apartheid, which apartheid means that black people were subjected to laws that prevented them from living as equal citizens, black South Africans who account for more than 80 percent of the country's 63 million people face far higher unemployment than their white counterparts, 35.8 percent compared to 8 percent. White households average almost five times more wealth than black families.
In South Africa, I'm sure they have plenty of problems internally, but this idea that there is a genocide happening in South Africa against white people is fictitious.
Here's one person who was brought into this country as a refugee. He says he left behind a Jaguar sports car, a Range Rover, and what he estimates to be property worth at least $300,000. He plans to sell them all so that he can come to the United States as a refugee.
Meanwhile, we're saying to Americans, don't go to Haiti because you might die, but we want to send 350,000 asylum seekers essentially back to Haiti because Stephen Miller doesn't like Haitians.
AIDALA: I don't think it's because Stephen Miller doesn't like Haitians. I think the Supreme Court of the United States made that ruling. I don't think it's based on executive branch.
PHILLIP: Because the administration wants to deport them, yes.
AIDALA: But the judicial branch had six pretty intelligent lawyers who decided that they were going to bend their will.
PHILLIP: But Arthur, what is the logic of a policy that lets a guy with a Range Rover and a Jaguar sports car in as a refugee, but not someone literally fleeing essentially a civil war?
AIDAL: I don't know the answer to that question. I don't have an answer to that.
MCGOWAN: If I can, I think we can back it up again to the gift bags. What other group of people have we brought into the country and given gift bags to?
SUNSHINE: Well, we've given a lot of Somalian refugees $18 billion worth of fraud to buy their own Range Rovers here. I think that's pretty generous of the American taxpayer. That's quite a gift bag.
MCGOWAN: We don't have any proof of the fraud you're talking about, Caroline.
DOSS: I'm just going to say this is America at its most familiar to me, opening its arms very wide open to white immigrants and not black immigrants, and then telling you not to believe your eyes when you've seen it.
PHILLIP: Next for us, we're going to read some of your feedback that you've been leaving throughout the hour. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: We are back, and the Food Network's supervising culinary producer, Liza Zeneski, is here with us. Tell us about what you have for us tonight.
LIZA ZENESKI, SUPERVISING CULINARY PRODUCER, FOOD NETWORK: Yes, hi. So tonight I have spaghetti and clams for you guys. I'm personally obsessed with pasta, I think that's one thing I can't live without. But I love this dish specifically in the summer.
It's lighter, so it feels kind of perfect for the hotter time of the year. Manila clams are naturally very sweet, and they show up in a couple of different ways here. You have them whole, and then you have them minced up that have melded into the sauce with aromatics and lots of wine.
Of course, there is a little toasted, lemony breadcrumb finish and lots of fresh herbs.
PHILLIP: It is so good. I know I say that about everything that they cook for us here, but it really is so good.
AIDALA: Is it true that you made this just for me?
ZENESKI: Just for you.
AIDALA: Me and Josh are Sicilian guys at the table.
ZENESKI: I knew, that's it.
AIDALA: The breadcrumbs is a very Sicilian touch. Up in northern Italy, they would not have breadcrumbs.
PHILLIP: Arthur's going to go on and on about this. Thank you, chef.
[23:00:01]
Now, we've got some viewer feedback for you from CNN.com/Abby. First one, could we have a night where the words Biden and Obama are
banned and hold Trump accountable regardless of a former President? And we've got one for you, Arthur.
AIDALA: Oh.
PHILLIP: Arthur's attire is a hot topic. Arthur, that's suit and tie. Honey, no.
AIDALA: No?
PHILLIP: Another one says, Arthur's ugly suit can pay rent for a year. You've got two seconds to respond.
MCGOWAN: No, this one is. This is not ugly.
DOSS: Did it say honey, no?
PHILLIP: Yes, it says honey, no.
PHILLIP: Arthur, we love your suit. Thank you for watching "NewsNight" tonight. Tomorrow, don't miss our Saturday morning show, "Table for Five," it's at 10 a.m. Eastern. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
