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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Declares Mission Accomplished Despite Ongoing War; Trump on Russia Helping Iran, They've Behaved Very Well; ICE Arrest Soar, But Not All Targets Have Criminal Records. ICE Arrests Hit New Record- High as Trump Administration Nears 2000 Arrests a Day Goal; Trump Renames Lake Ontario to Lake America, a New Rhetoric on U.S.-Canada Trade War. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired August 27, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, Donald Trump declares mission accomplished despite the war still going, gas prices still growing, and danger still flowing.
Plus, ICE arrests are soaring across America, but the targets aren't all criminals.
Also --
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We have a gulf and we have a lake. Now, all we need is an ocean.
PHILLIP: -- the president takes a Sharpie to his war with Canada, and why Joe Biden considered pardoning his successor.
Live at the table, Bakari Sellers, Scott Jennings, Caroline Sunshine, Josh Doss, and Sarah Matthews.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
23 years ago, a banner behind George W. Bush declared mission accomplished for combat operations in the Iraq War. Now, obviously, it wasn't. Not even close. And tonight, Donald Trump is declaring the same thing, despite his Middle East war still ongoing.
The Iran war is nearly seven months old, despite initial promises of days and weeks. Gas prices are still above $4 a gallon nationwide, and the Strait of Hormuz is still nowhere close to safe or shipping as much oil as it was before the bombs.
Now, America's munitions are dangerously low, according to reports as well. 18 Americans have lost their lives. More than 750 have been hurt, and that's the number that we know.
And as far as public opinion goes, only 31 percent of Americans approve of this war. Yet, with no end in sight, the president is having his own mission accomplished moment.
Before we open it up here to the table, we invite you at home to join our debate. Head to cnn.com/abby. Weigh in there. We'll get to some of your comments throughout the show.
Politically, and just for as a factual matter, it's not mission accomplished. The war is not over. It's still ongoing. Why would President Trump even try to put that imagery out there on the cusp of a midterm election?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I disagree. I think we've won the war. I'm just waiting for the president to go before the American people and formally announce it. I mean, we've sunk their navy. We've destroyed their military. We've decimated their defense industrial complex. They have no way to produce a nuclear weapon tonight.
And it's been confirmed over the last few days, we've cleared all the mines out of the Strait of Hormuz. Not a single barrel of oil has been exported by Iran since we reinstituted the naval blockade in July, and at the same time, the U.S. Navy has assisted in shipping out of the Gulf 750 million barrels of oil.
By any meaningful metric, we have won this war. The president needs to tell the American people that we've won the war and all the ways that we've won the war, and I assume we're going to have to leave some surveillance over there, and that's the truth. And I think that's what we're going to hear from him pretty soon.
PHILLIP: I mean, I think let's just start with the one of the last things that you mentioned, the amount of oil that is coming out of the Strait of Hormuz because we're escorting them. That's still about half of what it was before the war. And on top of that, I mean, a couple of things. One, reports are, CNN has reported that Iran has been active at these nuclear sites. All the nuclear material is still in Iran. They have reconstituted their missile program. They have not abandoned their support and funding of terrorism around the globe, and we still have military assets in the region.
I mean, I think people forget that there are, you know, tens of thousands of troops that are there right now because we are in a war posture with Iran right now.
SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY, FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: We were told that we were launching this war because we need to prevent them from getting a nuclear weapon, something that I think we can all agree with.
I don't want to see Iran acquire a nuclear weapon. But I do think that it has just been delayed, not necessarily the threat eliminated. And on top of that, I think the Iranians have now realized they might not even need a nuclear weapon at all because they realize that they can control the Strait of Hormuz.
[22:05:00]
JENNIGNS: They don't.
MATTHEWS: The commercial traffic is nowhere near as it was before Trump launched his attack on Iran, and gas prices just hit a record high for the month of August as a result.
JENNINGS: CNN's own reporting has declared that Iran has lost control of the Strait of Hormuz.
MATTHEWS: How can you say mission accomplished though --
JENNINGS: They don't control the strait. Those are talking points.
MATTHEWS: How can you say mission accomplished?
PHILLIP: But hold on. It's -- I mean, I think just, again, as on a fact -- on a factual basis, even by the most generous estimate, we're getting 10, maybe 15 ships out of the Strait of Hormuz compared to 110 before the war. So, whether Iran has full control, we don't have full control because traffic is not what it used to be. We are still dealing with a Strait of Hormuz that is choked up.
JENNINGS: It doesn't all have to go through the strait. We're also -- we've also come up with other ways to get the oil out.
PHILLIP: Well, that might be true, but it is also a fact that the Strait of Hormuz is not open.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that calling mission accomplished is the equivalent of saying that Scott Jennings is going to start at shooting guard next to Jalen Brunson next year for the New York Knicks. Like that's not --
JENNINGS: That's a non-zero chance of that. I am from Kentucky.
PHILLIP: That's just not a reality. And the reason that I state that is not just the Strait of Hormuz, but if you'd have told the American people that we would have a more than a dozen United States military members who were lost, or more than close to a thousand military members who were injured in this war, they would say, wait a minute, that's not what we were promised.
If you were talking about gas prices that are the highest they've ever been, that's not what we were promised. And not just gas prices, but we're talking about farmers in Iowa and Ohio and Indiana, the like middle America, because fertilizer prices are going up. There are real consequences to Pete Hegseth's incompetence. That's first and foremost.
The second thing is the Strait of Hormuz was not closed before we went into Iran. Like that was -- I don't even understand why we did not comprehend through a strategic military analysis that that would be the first thing that the Iranian regime would do. The last point I want to make is we went in and bombed their regime, allegedly. We thought we took out their leadership. You know what happened? The same regime is still in place. This is not been regime -- I don't know what this is. And the problem is we don't get a clear answer from anybody.
I think that the biggest problem we have with this war is transparency. Why are we there and how do we get out? Donald Trump can't answer it, Pete Hegseth can't answer it, and right now Marco Rubio has to be Dolly Parton this week because he takes on every role of the United States government.
PHILLIP: So, Caroline, I mean, Scott is trying to argue that Trump should go out there and tout a complete, finished war. Is that the right strategy?
CAROLINE SUNSHINE, FORMER PRESS AIDE, TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN: I think it's fantastic. I think it's fantastic to hear the president say mission accomplished because we can go home, right? Because when you win the Super Bowl, you don't stay on the field, you go to the after party. You go home. You go to Disneyland.
And President Trump has an opportunity to be one of the most consequential presidents of the modern era in regards to the Middle East because history -- if he takes this victory lap And goes home with his win because history doesn't judge American presidents and their success in the Middle East by how long they stay. It judges them by how little they stay there, which is why George H.W. Bush --
PHILLIP: Do you agree that he has won the war?
SUNSHINE: -- is more successful than George W. Bush whom you advise which is why I don't want you going anywhere near Donald Trump's presidency to go ruin it with more of your Iraq 2005 talk.
PHILLIP: Hold on, but do you think that Trump has- Look alive. Let's do it. Hold on. Do you think that Trump has won -- has in fact won the war?
SUNSHINE: Mission accomplished, absolutely.
PHILLIP: Or do you think that he should stay it so that --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Because I know that you don't support this war, but there's a difference between actually winning it and just dropping things as it is and then heading out the door.
SELLERS: If we leave and go home --
SUNSHINE: The win is depriving -- as I just said, the win is American presidents are judged not by how long they stay in the Middle East, but by how little.
SELLERS: If we leave -- SUNSHINE: So, the win is to take our W and come home.
SELLERS: Quick question. If we leave today, if we come home today, is Israel safer today than they were yesterday or no?
SUNSHINE: I'm an American citizen and my concern is the United States safer?
PHILLIP: Let me just --
JOSHUA DOSS, POLLSTER AND POLITICAL RESEARCHER: I just want to say real quickly --
PHILLIP: I need to give Scott an opportunity to respond to what Caroline just said.
JENNINGS: Oh, look, my view is we've won. We will probably have to leave some assets in the region for monitoring.
SUNSHINE: Why?
JENNINGS: I would --
SUNSHINE: The president said we won. We can go home.
JENNINGS: I would take Israel off the chain and say, listen, it's your backyard. And I would tell the Gulf allies who are now aligned against Iran, thanks to the president's leadership, do what you have to do to keep these people in check. I assume we're going to have a CIA plane in the air for the -- forever to monitor all their nuclear sites.
SUNSHINE: That's not an answer though. If we won, can we go home?
JENNINGS: And I think that's perfectly fine.
SUNSHINE: So, you're not answering. You're not even looking me in the eye.
PHILLIP: You were saying you would take Israel --
JENNINGS: Off the chain.
PHILLIP: What does that mean?
JENNINGS: You do whatever you have to do to keep yourself safe.
PHILLIP: So, you're basically saying they're on their own?
JENNINGS: No, they're our strongest ally in the region, but as a matter of warfare against Iran, we've done our job and the president has won this war.
Now, Israel has different equities because they have to live next door to these people.
[22:10:02]
(CROSSTALKS)
SUNSHINE: Can we go home and why won't you look me in the eye and answer a simple question, which is if we have won the war, we can go home? That's what you agree, right?
JENNINGS: Well, number one, I don't answer -- I don't know you and I don't answer to you. That's number one. Number two, I think we've won, and I think we can leave assets in the region that are in the best interest of the United States.
SUNSHINE: What are the assets that we should leave in the region? If we've won, why do we need to leave assets in the region?
JENNINGS: Because we're not isolationists. We have assets all over the world.
SUNSHINE: But if we've won --
MATTHEWS: Which we haven't. Let's be clear --
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: We won World War II and we still have troops in Europe. Is that okay with you or --
PHILLIP: Are you talking about ships?
SELLERS: I was like, do you want to just get to the --
PHILLIP: Yes. Are you talking about ships? So, you want to keep ships in the region with hundreds or thousands of American soldiers on them?
JENNINGS: I think patience with the naval blockade has worked for the president, and I wouldn't prejudge how soon you would stop doing that. But I think at a minimum, you'll have aerial monitoring and satellite monitoring of Iran and any other rogue nation forever.
DOSS: Okay. The American people don't think that we've won this war. We've asked them in surveys. They've said no. The 52 percent of America says that they're actually worse off because of the war. 75 percent of America feels like the war has cost them more than they were willing to ever pay. So, we can sit and have a conversation about if we won the war.
If we have won the war, this is not what I thought winning was going to be. I don't think this is what the majority of Republicans thought winning was going to be. Seeing our gas prices go up 40 percent, energy prices going up 13 percent. When are we going to determine winning to be taking that $120 billion that we spend in Iran and putting it here, housing, healthcare, making sure people have wages increasing? That's what winning should look like for all Americans. And that is not what --
JENNINGS: Well, I'm just curious. When you say, this isn't what I thought winning would look like, what did you think it would look like?
DOSS: Scott, the only thing before --
SUNSHINE: Winning looks like no new wars like Trump --
PHILLIP: Let me let Josh respond.
DOSS: Just that I'm curious. Before we started this war, the only thing that was in between us and what we wanted was Iran not having nuclear weapons with successful negotiations. That is what is between us and them not having nuclear weapons now.
JENNINGS: No, we don't need successful negotiations.
DOSS: Before we start -- but, yes, we do. The Strait of Hormuz was not closed before this war started. It's not closed now. Like Abby said, 170 oil tankers were going through there every single day. Why are only ten going through, Scott? And, listen --
JENNINGS: We have escorted 750 million barrels of oil through the Strait of Hormuz.
PHILLIP: Scott, I do want you to actually answer that question because this is just emblematic of like a broader glossing over of reality. If you're claiming the Strait of Hormuz is open, why are there only ten tankers coming through the strait now?
JENNINGS: Well, first of all, I'm not claiming it. Brad Cooper, the commander of CENTCOM is talking about it. That's --
PHILLIP: If you and the administration, the president is also claiming it, why are there only 10 tankers coming out of the strait right now?
JENNINGS: Well, there's tankers going through at the escort of the United States Navy, 750 million barrels of oil come through.
PHILLIP: Okay. I know, but you're not answering my question. It used to be 110 a day. Now it's 10.
JENNINGS: We don't need as many to go through right now.
PHILLIP: So, if it's --
(CROSSTALKS)
MATTHEWS: Tell that to the American people who are paying record high gas prices for all this.
PHILLIP: That is a small fraction of what it was before Is that not emblematic of a Strait of Hormuz that is not in fact open?
JENNINGS: I mean, I'll give you a strategic reason why ultimately it doesn't matter because we have, A, figured out how to move oil out of the region.
PHILLIP: So, then why haven't gas prices gone down, Scott? You just said it doesn't matter.
JENNINGS: So, we have figured out how to move oil out of the region, not entirely through the Strait of Hormuz, is number one, and so we have basically taken away the strategic advantage of being able to close it.
PHILLIP: Okay. But gas prices are still elevated in this country as a result of the war.
JENNINGS: Yes.
PHILLIP: So, what you're saying and the reality that Americans are living with are not the same thing.
MATTHEWS: They're eventually going to come down just like Trump said this war would only last four to five weeks, and now it's dragged on for nearly seven months.
JENNINGS: And all of this is happening at the same time that we produce enough oil to make ourselves energy independent.
PHILLIP: Okay. Scott, gas is a global commodity.
DOSS: The point is that Iran is emboldened now. Prior to this war --
JENNINGS: Emboldened?
DOSS: Yes.
JENNINGS: Their economy is in free fall. They have hyperinflation.
DOSS: The entire world just watched Iran sustain shutting down the strait under our pressure. They are emboldened now, Scott.
JENNINGS: The economic stranglehold we have on them has not emboldened anybody in Iran. I can assure you.
PHILLIP: So, then why won't they make a deal?
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: Because they're religious fanatics who are trying to bring about the end of the world. They're not deal makers.
PHILLIP: So, then you're agreeing -- so you're agreeing with Josh?
JENNINGS: About what?
DOSS: Scott, can I ask you a question then?
PHILLIP: Because Josh just said that Iran is emboldened. The regime is the same. They are now backs against the wall. You just confirmed that they're religious fanatics, so you're saying nothing has really changed.
JENNINGS: Well, I mean, I have argued from the beginning it was going to be near impossible to make a deal with religious fanatics who believe that, ultimately, they'd like to bring about the end of the world and destroy Israel and destroy America.
PHILLIP: So, at what point do we --
JENNINGS: We tried. They didn't want to do it. So, we've strangled them to death economically.
PHILLIP: So, at what point do we get to the objectives that were stated at the beginning?
[22:15:03]
Prevent Iran from ever having a nuclear weapon.
JENNINGS: We're there.
PHILLIP: Prevent them from being a malign actor in the region.
JENNINGS: We're there.
PHILLIP: Neither of those things have happened.
JENNINGS: I disagree.
PHILLIP: Iran still has all of its nuclear material in its possession, A. And, B, they -- look at this -- I mean, look at this full screen. All of Iran's proxies have been continuing with their malign activities in the region. The Houthis have been have been active. The Saudis are responding to Houthi attacks. Israel is responding to Hezbollah attacks. These have all happened since the resumption of hostilities on July 7th. So, that doesn't even count everything that's happened in the seven months since the war began.
Again, this is a question of reality versus rhetoric and sort of spin, political spin. There's no evidence that Iran's influence in the region has waned, that they've changed their ways, that they have given up on --
JENNINGS: No evidence? The entire region is allied against it.
PHILLIP: -- that they have given up.
JENNINGS: Are you disputing that the entirety of the Middle East is not aligned against Iran thanks to the president?
PHILLIP: You are talking about something completely different.
JENNINGS: No. You said their influence in the region. Their influence in the region is dramatically diminished.
PHILLIP: Yes, I'm not talking about --
JENNINGS: They have no navy. They have no military. They have no allies. They have no economy and they export no oil. Do you not know these things? PHILLIP: Scott, who are you talking about? Because I'm talking about --
JENNINGS: Iran.
PHILLIP: I'm talking about their proxies. Who are you talking about? I'm talking about the nation of Iran and its ability to do anything. They cannot export a barrel of oil today, and you think they're emboldened? That is crazy talk.
PHILLIP: Scott, I'm talking about their allies, Iran's allies, are they telling them to back down? The answer is no. The answer is no. There's no question that Iran is weaker today in terms of their economy, but this is also an authoritarian nation where they don't care about the wellbeing of their people.
And they -- to your point, you just said it, they're still religious fanatics They still want death to America, death to Israel. They still want nuclear weapons.
JENNINGS: Wanting and ability to pull it off are two different things.
PHILLIP: And the experts have said that they have not stopped in their pursuit of nuclear weapons. They're going back to those same sites that were bombed and they're digging them out.
MATTHEWS: Exactly. It's just been delayed, not eliminated.
And I will say, too, it's not just the Iranians who have been emboldened, it's folks like Russia as well. That's why we saw CIA Director John Ratcliffe fly out there, because we had intelligence that said that Putin was thinking about potentially invading NATO and causing that and triggering that. Because he knows that our resources are spread thin when it comes to Iran, that we've depleted our supply of precision grade weapons.
And then Putin's looking at it thinking, well, maybe it's a good time to test the resolve of NATO, because we already know that Trump likes to basically like --
PHILLIP: Well, it is interesting because literally today, the president downplayed Russia's role in helping Iran, which is contra everything that even his own administration is saying. We don't have time to play the sot, but here's what he said. He said, I think Russia has behaved quite well having to do with the Strait of Hormuz.
MATTHEWS: And that's the thing is that this war, because it was -- I don't think it was the right strategic call. We launched this war without a clear mission despite him saying mission accomplished. I don't think we've achieved any of those objectives. And now it has emboldened not just the Iranians, but the Russians as well. And --
JENNINGS: Well, you keep saying they're -- but how could you possibly say --
MATTHEWS: Because they're not at the negotiating table, Scott. They're not at the negotiating table.
JENNINGS: A country's being emboldened.
MATTHEWS: Well, if they were on their heels, don't you think that they would be at the negotiating table?
JENNINGS: Their economy is in shambles.
MATTHEWS: So, they would be at the negotiating table then. Why aren't we negotiating with them?
JENNINGS: Their leaders are dead. The guy in charge is a cardboard cutout.
MATTHEWS: Why are we not negotiating with them?
JENNINGS: How can you embolden a piece of cardboard? I don't understand this word.
MATTHEWS: They are -- their regime is still in control.
PHILLIP: I mean, look, I --
JENNINGS: Have you seen him? Is he alive?
PHILLIP: Listen, I understand --
JENNINGS: Nobody's seen the guy.
PHILLIP: I understand what you're saying about how he hasn't been out front in public.
JENNINGS: Yes.
PHILLIP: But even the Trump administration acknowledges that he is pulling the strings behind the scenes. They are not acting as if he is a cardboard cutout.
SUNSHINE: But I also think that this --
PHILLIP: They're living in reality in which he's still in charge of Iran.
JENNINGS: When you're too afraid to go out in public, I wouldn't call that emboldened, whether he's alive or not.
PHILLIP: And he is surrounded by hardliners who are calling the shots in Iran right now.
SUNSHINE: But this is important because, Scott, at the beginning of this war, you said that success was going to be defined as the regime being overthrown.
JENNINGS: I never said that.
SUNSHINE: And that has not happened. JENNINGS: I never said that. Success for me has always been --
SUNSHINE: And so now you say it's a win. So, I just want to be clear, we don't need to have the regime fully changed in Iran for this to be a win.
JENNINGS: I just want to be clear, you don't know --
SUNSHINE: That is what you said at the beginning of the war. You also said it would be four to six weeks.
JENNINGS: No, I never said that.
SUNSHINE: Yes, you did.
JENNINGS: My definition of success --
SUNSHINE: Yes, you did. Maybe we can go through all the tape later.
JENNINGS: My definition of success has always been, and I think it's a worthy goal, they can't have the ability to possess or build a nuclear weapon.
SUNSHINE: Which is great, because at the beginning of this war and now, the U.S. intelligence community has assessed that they did not want one, they weren't building one, they didn't have one.
JENNINGS: Well, that's not what their negotiators told Mr. Witkoff and Mr. Kushner when they went to meet with them.
SUNSHINE: So, do you not believe the intelligence agencies?
PHILLIP: All right.
JENNINGS: Do you do not believe the president's son-in-law and his own word?
[22:20:01]
SUNSHINE: I don't believe you had a phone call with Mitch McConnell, I'll tell you that. I don't believe you had a 20-minute phone call with Mitch McConnell, and I know a lot of people knew either.
PHILLIP: Okay, we're not going to change the subject.
JENNINGS: You sound like a garden variety conspiracy theorist.
PHILLIP: We are not going to change the subject in the middle of this.
SUNSHINE: How is he? Have you talked to him lately?
JENNINGS: Yes.
PHILLIP: All right. Next for us, ICE arrests are soaring across the United States, but all the targets aren't criminals. Plus, the president trolls Canada by renaming Lake Ontario to Lake America, a move that one person at this table says is aimed at stupid people. We'll debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Tonight, immigration arrests are soaring across America, but the targets aren't all criminals as the Trump administration has often claimed.
[22:25:04]
New data shows that arrests in June jumped more than 40 -- to more than 43,000, and in July, that number grew to closer to 50,000. That translates to more than 1,500 daily arrests last month alone, a figure that is inching closer to the Trump administration's goal of 2,000 per day.
Now, that data also finds that among those who were arrested in July, a majority had not been charged or convicted of a crime. And the picture that we're getting of how they are able to accomplish these numbers is TPS expirations, which they went to court to fight for. It's arresting people who have pending asylum claims or spouses of American citizens who are applying to change their status.
So, they're doing it in a way that that is quieter, but it's also targeting people who previously would not have been high priorities for deportation.
SUNSHINE: Well, what's important is that they're doing it because everybody in our country unlawfully has committed a crime by being here. It's quite literally eight U.S. Code. You know, they're enforcing the laws that are on the books.
(CROSSTALKS)
SELLERS: If you overstay your visa, you are here, it's a civil crime. To come through the border illegally, it's a criminal offense.
SUNSHINE: We had 10 million people under the Biden administration --
PHILLIP: So, Caroline, just to be clear, there's a difference between people who cross the border illegally and people whose status has expired, which is actually something that is very common --
SUNSHINE: All are here unlawfully.
PHILLIP: -- because it relies on the government to process their applications promptly, which they usually don't do. And the civil offense is not a criminal offense. It's actually not a crime.
SUNSHINE: It is unlawful.
PHILLIP: So, just to be clear, and I would also just point out, and I think that this gets obscured, the law allows for people to adjust their status. If they have -- if their status has lapsed, that is a legal pathway to remaining in this country. And also asylum is a legal pathway to remaining in this country.
So, when the Trump administration is targeting people who are using legal pathways, that seems like a bit of a bait and switch.
SUNSHINE: It's all unlawful, and the point is why --
(CROSSTALKS)
MATTHEWS: You're applying for asylum and going through it the legal way.
SUNSHINE: If you are here unlawfully, and you know when your status is unlawful or not, if you're here unlawfully, you got to go, guys. And that used to be the stance of the Democrat Party too, by the way, ten years ago. We had 10 million people come into this country under the Biden administration. We had no idea who they are.
Let me tell you why it is important to not just deport the criminals with additional criminal charges. Jocelyn Nungaray was 12 years old.
PHILLIP: Okay.
SUNSHINE: She was strangled under a bridge. And the two guys that did it didn't have any previous deportation --
SELLERS: More heterosexual Christian white men kill anybody than illegal immigrants.
SUNSHINE: Every person who is staying here who has not committed an additional crime is a threat and has to go home. And we don't talk about that, and I'm glad to.
PHILLIP: Every person who is killed in this country is a tragedy. Jocelyn Nungaray's death is a terrible tragedy, and those people who responsible for it should 100 percent be held responsible for those crimes.
SUNSHINE: They shouldn't have been here to begin with.
PHILLIP: But the question is, are all the other immigrants being painted with the same brush?
And I also -- the question I also have is the Trump administration wants to do this quietly. They keep saying publicly, out loud, that they're targeting criminals. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARKWAYNE MULLIN, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We're taking the worst of the worst off the streets with the best of the best, and that's ICE.
TRUMP: Targeting the worst of the worst, always a first.
TOM HOMAN, TRUMP BORDER CZAR: We're going to keep targeting the worst of the worst. TRUMP: Some of the worst criminals anywhere in the world.
MULLIN: Let's work to get the worst of the worst off the streets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: They're also picking up spouses of U.S. citizens at airports.
SELLERS: Go ahead, I'm sorry.
DOSS: I just want to say really quickly, because I feel like you may be missed what we were talking about here. So, first of all, they are saying the worst of the worst. From the data that we just saw, I think, like only 4 percent of the people they've rounded up even have any violent background. But what I believe Abby was just trying to say there is 1.5 million people who are on temporary protected status are getting that revoked. They've been -- hold up. Real quick --
SUNSHINE: The Supreme Court just ruled that that is unlawful.
DOSS: Let me finish. Listen. Let me --
SUNSHINE: And, actually, shout out to Mayor Mamdani in New York --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Caroline, just a second.
SELLERS: Can he finish his thought, please?
SUNSHINE: I finished it for you. TPS was just revoked by the Supreme Court.
PHILLIP: Okay. Can you just let him finish?
SUNSHINE: It is now unlawful to be here as a TPS holder.
PHILLIP: I'll let you -- Caroline, I'll let you respond, but let him finish.
DOSS: They are canceling -- they have canceled over 100,000 visas of people who are here legally working and studying.
SUNSHINE: You're talking about TPS, and you just backed off of that because you just got caught.
DOSS: They are denaturalizing people. They are going to people's naturalization ceremonies, folks who have been spending time years, money, fees.
SUNSHINE: Name one.
DOSS: There's like --
SUNSHINE: Name one and give me a name. DOSS: There's literally like 50 cases of --
SUNSHINE: Give me a name of a U.S. citizen who was denaturalized, and I will personally call the Trump administration myself.
[22:30:02]
DOSS: And the reason why conflating this with --
SUNSHINE: Give me one name. Give me one name.
DOSS: There's like 50 cases of this, Caroline.
SUNSHINE: Come on. I see your iPad here. Give me one name.
PHILLIP: Okay. Caroline, can you just give him --
MATTHEWS: It has less to do with one name. And the point remains that I agree with the Trump administration wanting to round up the worst of the worst, but when we're spending our resources going after people who are the spouses of U.S. citizens, or going after people who wanted to be here and were going about it the legal right way because they actually legally entered the country and were applying for asylum, that is taking away resources from going after those dangerous criminals.
I agree with you that the deaths of Americans, innocent young women who have died at the hands of illegal immigrants, is a tragedy. That is horrific and it should not take place in this country. But we should be using our resources properly then and honing in on those dangerous criminals and not going after all these other people.
BAKARI SELLERS (D), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, SOUTH CAROLINA, ATTORNEY AND AUTHOR, "THE MOMENT", AND CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We have a process problem, I think is what we're articulating here, because when you're going after people who are doing it the right way, we're not talking about, I want to take that off the table, I tend to say it all the time, but there are five of us, six of us around the table and we all agree that violent criminals need to be deported. That's not a question that we're having that discussion about tonight.
It's a red herring that people like to throw out there. But people who are going through TPS, people who are going through the asylum process, people who are doing it the right way, should have that opportunity to do so.
Also, fundamentally, let's have this conversation about ICE, because this is why the President is underwater with immigration right now. Because ICE, they wear masks, they don't wear badges, they don't have identification, they don't wear body cameras -- But can we finish comments tonight, please?
So that's what happens. And when you go through this process where you don't have that trust, or you don't have that transparency in the process, when you're killing American citizens in the street, you mention names of individuals who should still be alive today. If you can articulate and say from your chest that Renee Good and Alex Pretti should still be alive today, then we can have a good conversation.
The problem is you cannot, because ICE murdered those individuals, and we can have a conversation about that. I know you don't want to say that. I know it gives you heartburn to say that.
SUNSHINE: Alex Pretti and Renee Good should never have obstructed law enforcement.
SELLERS: Can I ask you one simple question? With your law degree, let me ask you one question. I know.
Is obstruction of justice a crime that deserves the death penalty? Yes or no?
SUNSHINE: You should not obstruct federal justice.
MATTHEWS: Okay, wait. Can we acknowledge you?
Wait. Alex Pretti wasn't obstructing justice, so he was helping an innocent woman on the ground.
And let me say that Renee Good, her final words to the officer were, I'm not mad at you.
SUNSHINE: She was ramming a car into him.
MATTHEWS: No, she was not. The video evidence shows she was not ramming a car into him. That is insane for you to say that they are obstructing justice.
The video evidence shows otherwise.
PHILLIP: Scott, this is not a popular issue for the President anymore. He is underwater by double digits on immigration. Even on border enforcement, he is in the negative, I think it was negative 5 percent in the last poll on this topic.
So obviously this is actually something that's not going that well for the President, which it might explain why on T.V. they keep saying that they're doing one thing, but in reality they're doing another.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER AIDE TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, AND RADIO HOST, "THE SCOTT JENNINGS SHOW" ON SRN: Well, among the people who voted for the President, this is exactly what they voted for. They want to see numbers like this.
And one thing I think that's been lost in the debate is that the federal government, the Congress, has ushered in massive amounts of resources to the Department of Homeland Security and ICE. I think one of the reasons they're able to ramp up is because more money is being spent on what has been the President's top priority, and that is to end the immigration crisis in this country.
I don't personally believe the worst of the worst conversation versus everybody else. I don't think these things are mutually exclusive. We now have enough ICE agents to do it all, and that's a good thing. PHILLIP: Seriously, do you think that ICE should be arresting the spouses of U.S. citizens who have pending applications to rectify their status?
JENNINGS: I think ICE ought to be --
PHILLIP: Can you answer that question --
JENNINGS: I'm just going to --
PHILLIP: -- as opposed to a different question?
JENNINGS: I'm going to answer all the questions.
PHILLIP: No, just the one I asked you. That's all I'm asking. Just the one I asked you.
JENNINGS: If you don't have legal status to be here, if you came here illegally, if you're in violation of U.S. law, you should be deported. What about --
PHILLIP: So again, the answer is yes, you think that they should be arresting the spouses of U.S. citizens who have pending applications to have their statuses adjusted, which is a legal pathway that Congress allowed in the law.
JENNINGS: Well, I think the Trump administration has a different view of how people are abusing our various systems. Obviously, they've gone to court over TPS. They think the asylum system is totally broken.
[22:35:02]
PHILLIP: Scott, you're saying a lot of things, but you're not answering my question.
JENNINGS: Yes, I said, if you are here illegally and you're in violation of any kind of U.S. law. You got a problem with ICE.
PHILLIP: So look, I think the reason I'm asking you this is because obviously a lot of Americans disagree, and there's no way that that doesn't include a lot of Americans who voted for Donald Trump, because Trump won the last election, but now a majority of Americans disapprove of him over this issue, which means that some of those people that cast ballots for Donald Trump are looking at the situation and saying, this isn't what I think we should be doing.
SELLERS: Even more specifically, if you want to put a political moment on it right now, you see that even in Texas, along the southern border, Donald Trump is losing those voters whereby he was winning those voters in 2024. We've seen a drastic decrease in Hispanic support for Donald Trump in Florida, in Texas, and a lot of the swing states.
I mean, politically, his objective to deport criminals who have committed violent crimes and people who skipped the line and people who are here illegally was something that was far and above. It had approval ratings that actually catapulted him to the White House. What we're seeing right now is it's going to cost him midterm elections.
PHILLIP: All right, we've got to leave it there. Next for us, the President signs an order declaring Lake Ontario is now Lake America as he trolls Canada in this ongoing trade war.
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[22:40:00]
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PHILLIP: Tonight, in the middle of an escalating trade war between the United States and Canada, President Trump pulled this stunt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're going to be changing the name of Lake Ontario, effective immediately to Lake America.
If you think about it, we have a gulf and we have a lake. Now, all we need is an ocean. So maybe we'll have to change the name of the Atlantic and or the Pacific.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: The White House also posted this map showing the name change. Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney wasted no time hitting back, saying it will be called Lake Ontario then, now and always.
Sarah, you pointed out that this is something that is aimed at, I mean, satisfying people who, I guess, find things like this funny.
MATTHEWS: Yes, I tweeted earlier today that I think that this goes really hard if you're stupid. But I think that people with functioning brains like myself are seeing this as a distraction.
This doesn't matter. What matters is that Trump started a trade war with one of our longest standing allies and he's upset over what, USMCA, the deal that he negotiated. Okay, so I guess part of the deal doesn't apply here because he's upset calling it a terrible deal and how Canada is operating under it and wants to renegotiate it now.
But the thing is that these tariffs are taxes on the American people and he thinks that he's hurting Canada by imposing them when all he's doing is hurting American families and he's hurting small businesses here at home. And so I think that people would rather see him focused on quite literally anything else and lifting these tariffs and, I don't know, maybe caring about things like the deadly measles outbreak we have in this country, contaminated food getting recalled every other day, the war that he started that there's seemingly no end in sight, gas prices hitting a record high for August.
I mean, I could continue. And that is why he's doing something stupid like this to distract from his failures.
PHILLIP: It sure doesn't seem like a move that you would make if you felt like things were going well for you.
JENNINGS: I don't know, it's a troll. And, you know, he does trolls all the time. I'm more interested in actually what happens with Canada.
They need us more than we need them. And it's absolutely true that Canada has been treating many U.S. industries and U.S. workers very poorly and very unfairly for a long time. I like the tough negotiations.
Now, back before the deal got blown up, the President was actually pretty forward leaning on what they had negotiated and what he thought they had agreed to. There's been some reports from the U.S. government that the Canadians were actually the ones who were being quite unreasonable. We'll see if they come back.
The Canadians said September the 8th is their tariff increase date. That gives you some time here. But I don't think we should let Canada, a smaller player in this partnership, run all over us, whether it's in dairy or agriculture.
MATTHEWS: Do you think that trolling like this presents a good image to the world, though? Because to me, it makes us look unserious and like an unreliable partner. So why would anyone want to build better relations with us? And that --
SELLERS: We're a deeply unserious country right now. I mean, the fact is Lake Ontario, the name is over 400 years old. It predates the Confederation of Canada, it predates the Declaration of Independence. But what are we doing?
And the fact is, and it's like just if we picked up a book and like read that fact, we would understand how simple this is.
And not only that, but I hear Scott, but we're getting bullied by Canada. Joe Biden didn't get bullied by Canada, Barack Obama didn't get bullied by Canada, George W. Bush didn't get bullied by Canada.
And right now, how are we going to win in the Middle East?
JENNINGS: How are we being bullied? I don't understand.
SELLERS: He is, I mean --
JENNINGS: We mean far more to them than they mean to us economically.
SELLERS: It's like right now the response that Donald Trump has is to hurt the American people when you put a tear. I mean, and we've had this discussion before. It's like economics one on one.
When you put a tariff on Canada, who does that affect the American people? This is not a tax on Canada.
[22:45:05]
And so I mean -- JENNINGS: When Canada puts a tariff on us, who does it affect them?
SELLERS: And they're in a position right now where they're actually winning this trade war.
JENNINGS: I mean, you just argue that if we let it hurts Americans, if Canada let these terrorists --
MATTHEWS: I think Canadians are so upset, though, with America, that they are willing to eat those costs, whereas I don't think that Americans support his trade war with Canada and they don't support it.
SELLERS: Why are we in the beginning of the day? I know you don't look at all of the country's --
Why are we in a trade war?
DOSS: We are in a trade war with Canada because President Trump, for some reason, has this vested interest in painting this picture that we should be paranoid about everything around us, right? The people that we've known for a long time are our friends are now our enemies.
Look to the southern border. They're trying to invade, they want to take your jobs, they want to put fit in all your communities.
Look across the border in Iran. They're two weeks away from a bomb.
JENNINGS: Absolutely.
DOSS: Everywhere except for the person that took $900 billion out of your house, everywhere except for the person that took health care away from 17 million Americans everywhere, except for the person that's aiding and abetting the largest upward transfer of wealth from the from the working class to the to the one percent that we've ever seen. That's actively happening.
Didn't we just pay $175 billion in illegal tariffs that got -- that came back to companies and not to the American people? It's happening under our nose while President Trump is talking about renaming the lake.
Sixty percent of Americans think that the President is distracted. This is something we see in surveys all the time.
JENNINGS: I hear that we didn't have immigration in Fenton.
MATTHEWS: Oh, we're not talking about that --
PHILLIP: Conservative commentator podcast or whatever you want to call him, Matt Walsh. He said this will be an unpopular opinion on the right.
But he agrees with Sarah. He says this is dumb, even as a troll. Lake Ontario was given that name on maps by European explorers long before the Canadian province of Ontario was named. There are several American cities called Ontario, at least one of them predating the Canadian province by 100 years. And then he says politically, this is so stupid because the number one challenge Republicans will face in the midterms is the charge that they haven't used their time and power to advance the interests of everyday Americans. This is the kind of thing that will be used as evidence in that case.
That's the most important part. When Americans see the President devoting Oval Office time to something as stupid as this, it does suggest that his priorities are not in the right.
SUNSHINE: Well, you guys are getting the troll aspect of it wrong. It's not a troll on Canada, it's a troll on the media because you've all done what he wanted tonight, which is he put this out there and then the chyrons all changed to be about this.
And my question to you would be, since renaming things is now a problem, are we a serious country when the Biden administration was renaming our military bases? Are we a serious country then? But we're not a serious country now for renaming a lake, the Lake of America.
I just want to know.
PHILLIP: Listen, the military bases were being renamed in the United States.
DOSS: Was that a million dollars? It was a million dollars.
SUNSHINE: It did not need to be renamed at all. He did it anyways. It wasn't serious.
PHILLIP: It's not fair.
MATTHEWS: Caroline, did you think that it was stupid? Like, did you think it was stupid when the left tried to change terms like birthing person and Latinx and forced those down our throat? Did you think they were stupid like I did?
I thought they were stupid, but that's why I think it's just as we now are renaming the Gulf of America and Lake America.
PHILLIP: Listen, the 4D chess of this all is silly. At the end of the day --
SUNSHINE: You guys took the bait. You're talking about it.
PHILLIP: Caroline, Trump could do a lot of things that you think are aimed at the media. But what's really happening is that the American people are watching.
SUNSHINE: No, they're not.
PHILLIP: The American people are seeing what's going on and they don't like it. Trump is not popular when it comes to how he's handled trade, period. They didn't like the tariffs of Liberation Day and they don't like this because the retaliatory tariffs, to Scott's point, Canada knows that that will have an impact on their economy.
But they also tried to target it in ways that they knew would also hurt Americans. And Americans understand that and they also understand that it doesn't need to be that way. There's absolutely no reason for us to conduct trade negotiations this way.
JENNINGS: I mean, look, they got close to a deal. And there is some evidence in reporting that the Canadians were culpable in blowing up this deal. You seem to want to blame the whole thing on the American side.
I wasn't there. I don't know what the truth is. And maybe they will come to a deal.
But you can't -- look if the Canadians are asking for things you don't want to give. Then, you know, sometimes --
PHILLIP: You're saying that it's the Canadians. But I mean, there is also reporting that it was also the Americans changing. They're changing their demands at the last minute, asking for Canada to defy its own constitution when it comes to the French language and negotiations.
They don't deny that it was on the table. They're just saying now that it's not a deal breaker, which was news to the Canadians.
And the Canadians are not saying, Okay, if that's the case, then let's talk.
[22:50:08]
SELLERS: The rest of the world --
JENNINGS: They don't have a deal yet. Maybe they'll get it.
PHILLIP: But it sounds like we do. The art of the deal is not anything of the sort. This is not a President who has successfully negotiated with anyone since he's been back in office.
SELLERS: I mean, the fact is, the fact that --
JENNINGS: How can you say that we have struck trade agreements with --
MATTHEWS: Like USMCA, the one that he is saying is terrible --
JENNINGS: A number of trade agreements. We have security agreements. We've got NATO strengthened.
They're all now spending more money on their national defense, just like we asked them to do. We have a number of successes around the world militarily and economically, all because the President pushed the --
SELLERS: Our standing around the world has decreased. And the reason is decreased. And the reason that we don't have the respect that we had is because we do things like we did by renaming the Lake Ontario. MATTHEWS: Childish.
SELLERS: And if no one, what we would like to do is actually get like get complete sentences out. And let me tell you why.
Let me tell you why the world respects us more for renaming military bases than they do the Gulf of America or Lake Ontario, because when you have people that own slaves, when you have people that persecute individuals who live in your country, who bastardize them, who oppress them for hundreds of years.
Yes, it's okay to literally say that we do not want people who wanted to uphold the rights that enslave people, having those names on bases where our military people actually protect and serve what we're doing and what we're doing in Lake Ontario. You asked me a question. I answered it.
What are we doing in Lake Ontario and what we're doing in the Gulf of America? That is utter B.S. If we want to have a serious President that's talking about serious things, let's actually bring people to the table.
Let's have these trade discussions, let's not put tariffs on our people. Let's actually -- I don't know a President that you can name that we've had a trade war with Canada.
PHILLIP: Negotiating by threat is what is happening here. And clearly it hasn't worked because there is no deal. If Trump literally could have said we need to just renegotiate this thing and let's talk until it gets done.
But instead, he threatened them. And by doing that, they called his bluff. And he said, he said, oh, we're going to tariff you in a few months.
SELLERS: The election.
PHILLIP: We're going to wait until after the election. They were like, oh, Beth, we'll tariff you right now.
SUNSHINE: Yes.
PHILLIP: So Canada is calling our bluff. They wouldn't be doing that if they felt like they didn't have the upper hand.
SUNSHINE: Well, Canada is proof that tariffs work because Canada has tariffs.
They tariff our dairy industry. They say that when, you know, X amount of imports have met, we have never met.
PHILLIP: They have never met that quota, Caroline. It is misleading to say that. And we have never actually hit the quota where they would actually where those tariffs would actually be paid.
And guess who negotiated those quota rates? President Trump in the USMCA, he made that clear. And what are you talking about?
The deal that we are operating under is one that this President negotiated. Okay, when they bring up the dairy issue, the quotas hit after a very high amount of imports and it has not been hit.
SELLERS: We've never hit it.
SUNSHINE: It is a tariff.
They totally mislead. They clearly have caught Canada.
PHILLIP: We have interdependent industries when it comes to automaking. We are hurting ourselves when we try to hurt Canada. It does not make sense.
MATTHEWS: I would love for steel workers in this country or automotive workers to be asked if they care more about whether or not Trump can negotiate a better deal with Canada or if they care about him trolling and mocking Canada, renaming Lake Ontario to Lake America, saying that we're going to annex Canada and make them the 51st state.
I don't think that they care about any of that stuff. They care about the tariffs that are impacting their industry.
PHILLIP: Maybe this is to Caroline's point, but also tonight, the President put out this Truth Social post of a ranking of Presidents.
And he, of course, puts himself at the top of the list as the greatest President, greater than George Washington, greater than Lincoln, greater than Ronald Reagan. Do you agree, Scott?
JENNINGS: I haven't given it much thought, but I would not expect Donald Trump to put out a ranking of anything without him at the top. And I don't think that's his prerogative.
SELLERS: I don't think there's any. I don't think there's any --
JENNINGS: I did notice there were some Presidents missing. I didn't see President Reagan's list.
PHILLIP: This list goes up to a certain point.
SELLERS: I would argue that there every ranking objective ranking, whether or not United States citizens or around the world of any age, usually that that approval rating or Gallup ranking usually ranks him near the bottom. Andrew Jackson is the worst President we've ever had in this country. Donald Trump is the second worst President we've ever had in this country.
And we can argue over who's the best or who's the greatest. But usually you're not in the business of writing your own obituaries. And that just goes to the psychopathy of Donald Trump.
Like the narcissism of Donald Trump. Usually you allow other people to say how great you are. But as soon as you start saying, I'm the greatest, that usually means that you suck. [22:55:06]
SUNSHINE: Well, Lord knows you can't rely on you or most of the people here to call him.
SELLERS: Muhammad Ali was the greatest.
JENNINGS: And he said it all the time.
MATTHEWS: The exception to the rule.
PHILLIP: Donald Trump is not leaving anything to chance, it seems.
Next for us, we've got breaking news. A federal judge is temporarily blocking the U.S. Postal Service from implementing the President's plan to restrict mail-in voting. We'll tell you about it when we come back, stand by.
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