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Trump Fights to Stay on Ballot in Maine and Colorado; Trump, DeSantis, Haley Qualify for CNN's GOP Debate in Iowa; Charter Buses Carrying Migrants Arrive in New Jersey. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired January 02, 2024 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Today, we are awaiting two major appeals from Donald Trump's lawyers that could have major consequences for the 2024 election. Trump is fighting a pair of historic decisions that disqualify him from primary ballots in Colorado and Maine. They hinge on the 14th Amendment's so-called insurrectionist ban.

It's a constitutional gray area that's being tested in unprecedented fashion right now. And that's why it seems these cases are destined for the Supreme Court.

We want to discuss with Maine Republican Party Chair Joel Stetkis. Joel, thank you so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us. So the Maine Republican Party, we understand, has been working on an appeal. When are you anticipating you will file it, or are you coordinating with the Trump team on timing?

JOEL STETKIS, CHAIR, MAINE REPUBLICAN PARTY: So what we have been doing since prior to the announcement by Secretary of State Bellows is working with multiple groups of lawyers on our options and, you know, what tools we have at our disposal.

SANCHEZ: So can you give us any details on what your immediate plans might be, or are you waiting for the Trump team to step in first?

STETKIS: No, we're, you know, we're working with, you know, with the Trump team and other attorneys as well. And, you know, putting together the plan at this point in time. And I'm sure we'll be making some sort of announcement fairly soon.

SANCHEZ: Sure, look forward to that. So Joel, earlier we spoke with one of the people who filed to challenge Trump's eligibility in Maine, Tom Saviello. He's a fellow Republican who voted for Donald Trump twice. He argued that this group that he's with, people that challenge the eligibility, are going about doing this through Maine's laws, that this is a legal process. I want you to listen to more of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM SAVIELLO, CHALLENGED TRUMP'S BALLOT ELIGIBILITY IN MAINE: Maine has a law. We have to follow what our laws say on the book -- on the books. And unless they want to -- there's two ways you can do this. You can change the law, or you can change what's required by the state of Maine.

When we complain, which we're allowed to do under our constitutional rights and under Maine state law, she had a hearing, which was very fair, of which, interestingly enough, they brought no witnesses in. They had very few pieces of information they came, and they objected to her participating after the hearing record was closed. I sometimes think they took us for granted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: He's, of course, talking about the Secretary of State's decision to remove Donald Trump from the ballot. What is your response?

STETKIS: Well, Boris, I think the simplest way we can put this, really, is, you know, we've got an unelected bureaucrat who likes to pretend that she's a lawyer, and she's literally taking away the voters' choices in Maine. You know, here in Maine and across the country, regardless of whether they like Donald Trump or not, you know, Bellows is wrong on so many levels, and it's getting to the point of really being embarrassing.

SANCHEZ: But if the state law, like the state constitution, makes it so that if someone has a complaint about a candidate, they take it up with the Secretary of State, who then is the arbiter, how could she be in the wrong for making a decision based on what was presented to her in that hearing?

STETKIS: Well, you know, her decision process was just wrong. You know, she's there to support Maine's voting rights, and she's doing exactly the opposite. You know, we're going to fight this thing to the highest extent that we need to, and what she's doing is just flat out wrong.

SANCHEZ: Why would you say that? Do you object to Donald Trump's participation on January 6th? Do you think that Article 5 of the 14th Amendment, or rather Article 3 of the 14th Amendment, doesn't include the presidency? Like, what's your main argument against her decision?

[15:35:00]

STETKIS: Well, this has so much more to do with, you know, the suppression of the vote as opposed to Donald Trump. We would oppose this decision regardless of what Republican she decided that she was going to arbitrarily decide Maine voters aren't going to be allowed to vote.

SANCHEZ: You're saying, Joel, you're saying that it's arbitrary, but what is it about her decision? What is it about her argument legally that you're opposed to?

STETKIS: We're just opposed to her taking away the rights of the voters, to be able to choose the leader that they want to vote for, or not.

SANCHEZ: But if there's a part of the Constitution that says that if someone is an insurrectionist, a state can intervene to remove them from a ballot, and she is designated to make that decision according to Maine's state constitution, then isn't it up to her?

STETKIS: Her reasoning behind her decision is completely wrong.

SANCHEZ: So what is the reasoning that you object to?

STETKIS: No matter how you ask the question, her decision is completely wrong. There are --

SANCHEZ: Joel, but give us the details. Why is it wrong?

STETKIS: So, Boris, this is the thing, right? There are attorneys and judges, Democrats and Republicans, across this country that have said that she's wrong. Not one time in my life have I ever agreed with Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, until now. Gavin Newsom also believes the people should have the right to vote and choose who they want.

SANCHEZ: I'm just trying to get to the basis of your legal argument, and you're not giving me any details. You're just saying that it's flat-out wrong. Why is it wrong from a legal standpoint? Like, is it that you think her interpretation of the amendment is wrong? Is it that you think that it doesn't apply to the presidency, that it's not a self-executing portion of that amendment? Is there any detail you can give us, other than saying she's flat-out wrong, Joel?

STETKIS: So one of the things that we've seen in the last week are very highly respected lawyers and judges, Democrats and Republicans alike, that have come out and given plenty of legal argument on why that she's wrong.

You know, my job -- my job here is to protect the voters in the state of Maine, and what she is doing just shows absolute contempt for the everyday American. They feel like we're not smart enough to think for themselves that she needs to pull somebody off of the ballot, because we're not smart enough to know whether we should vote for that person or not. And that's just flat-out wrong.

SANCHEZ: I don't think it's a question of intelligence. I think there's a legal argument to be made. It doesn't seem like you have articulated the exact legal argument and the flaw that you see in her decision.

Nevertheless, Joel, we're grateful to have you and get your perspective. Thank you so much for being with us.

STETKIS: Thanks, Boris. Have a great day.

SANCHEZ: You too. Happy New Year.

Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We're back in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: With just two weeks to the Iowa caucuses, we're now getting our first look at who qualified for CNN's Iowa debate next week. The last one before the caucuses. Former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley is in. Former President Donald Trump is in. And former -- and rather Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is also in. They've all reached at least 10 percent in three separate polls of Republican caucus goers. A benchmark that's needed to qualify. However, so far only Haley and DeSantis have confirmed that they will take part.

CNN's Steve Contorno is live for us in Des Moines. So Steve, how is the news being received there?

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Well Boris, Governor DeSantis' campaign has been looking forward to this debate for weeks now. They were very quick to say that they'd be happy to participate. And they think that he has done well in smaller debates. They believe that his one-on-one performance against Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, he performed well in that setting. And they think that he -- they look forward to the opportunity to compare his record more directly against Governor Nikki Haley without Vivek Ramaswamy and Chris Christie on the stage.

But they have also been trying to goad Trump, bully Trump, push Trump into actually participating in one of these debates. Check out the statement that they put out a little bit ago when it came out that the Trump campaign would be holding its own events with Fox News on that night of the debate.

They said: We understand Donald Trump is scared to get on the stage because he'd have to finally explain why he didn't build the wall, added nearly $8 trillion to the debt, and turned the country over to Fauci.

But even Gavin Newsom had the courage to stand on the stage to debate his own failed record against Ron DeSantis. The statement went on to say that they would even be willing to put a chair on the stage for the former president to sit in. A bit of a knock on his age there. And these are some pretty sharp words.

But what's interesting is that while Governor DeSantis at times has taken some shots at Trump like this, he hasn't necessarily done it on the airwaves. Look at his closing message on the airwaves of his new campaign ad coming out today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Ron DeSantis is the only candidate who's defeated them.

RON DESANTIS, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We beat the teachers union. We beat Fauci on COVID. I beat Soros. And as your president, I will not let you down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CONTORNO: DeSantis will be in Iowa tomorrow, Boris, where he will begin pushing that closing message directly to voters.

SANCHEZ: Steve Contorno, live from Des Moines. Thank you so much, Steve --Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right. We have a lot to discuss with CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp.

[15:45:00]

No Christie, Ramaswamy, most likely Trump is going to be a no show here. S.E., what do Haley and DeSantis have to do on the debate stage to pull ahead? Can they?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, it's you know, with the Iowa caucus coming, they both have had two very different strategies going into Iowa.

Ron DeSantis, as you know, has put it all kind of all into Iowa. And Nikki Haley's been a little bit more spread out. But it's a chance for the two of them, without the distractions of Vivek Ramaswamy, to really take each other on and tell Iowa voters specifically why they are the candidate for them.

And that could go in a couple directions. You know, will Nikki Haley decide to continue her effort to present herself as the sort of sane alternative to Trump? Will she try to speak to independents and moderates in Iowa? By the way, independent registered voters outnumber Republican registered voters in Iowa. Or will they try to outright each other, out-Trump each other? Because Trump won't be there and they'll both be angling for Trump voters. That's a strategy play that we'll have to wait and see how it plays out next week.

KEILAR: So we heard that DeSantis ad in Steve's reporting there. DeSantis has also released some ads dinging Nikki Haley for her record on China, calling her tricky Nikki.

And you have Nikki Haley returning fire with her new ad. She's trashing DeSantis' record on China, saying he's lying because he's losing. They're going after each other and not the frontrunner. You know, what does that do to their possibility of gaining any traction here?

CUPP: This has been a bad strategy from the beginning. You know, the idea that there could be these two parallel campaigns where folks like Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis are running to get MAGA voters and then sort of another parallel campaign where they're winning to get independents and moderates and disaffected Republicans. These two things are pretty much mutually exclusive. And you can't -- you can't get them all. You can't get the moderates and independents by praising Trump. And you can't get Trump by dinging him to get the independents.

So, you know, it's a little late to sort of change that strategy now. So as flawed as it's been to kind of leave Trump alone with less than two weeks to go to Iowa now, it's probably best that they continue what they've been doing and go after each other and fight for number two in Iowa.

KEILAR: S.E., I wonder what you think of this new poll that we're seeing. A Washington Post poll says 46 percent of people say Trump's actions related to his role in the January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol should disqualify him from the presidency. Thirty three percent say it doesn't matter. The partisan divide here pretty clear, though. Eighty/nine. Eighty to nine, when you look at Democrats versus Republicans, quite stark. What does that tell you about the bigger picture?

CUPP: Well, it tells me that nationally, a plurality of voters at least believe that that that January 6th and Trump's role is a problem for Trump. You know, will it be a big enough problem? Trump is betting no.

It was a big enough problem four years ago. But, you know, the fact that Republicans are so all in on Trump and forgiving of this, and they've gotten more forgiving as we've put more distance between January 6th and now, I think shows that Trump's really got a lock on these voters. And, you know, it's not over until it's over, Brie. You know that. But and there's a long way till November. But, you know, it looks like Trump has a real lock on the Republican nomination.

KEILAR: Yes, he certainly does at this point. S.E., great to see you. Happy New Year. Thank you so much for being with us.

CUPP: You too.

KEILAR: And a reminder that Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley will take questions directly from Iowa voters in back to back CNN Town Hall events. Kaitlan Collins and Erin Burnett will moderate live on Thursday night starting at 9:00 Eastern.

Buses from Texas and Louisiana dropping off hundreds of migrants at New Jersey train stations. An attempt to avoid New York City's executive order that tries to limit the number of migrants being sent to the city. We'll have details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:00]

SANCHEZ: Nearly 400 migrants have arrived in New Jersey on board several buses from Texas and Louisiana, bypassing an executive order issued by New York City's Mayor Eric Adams.

KEILAR: And these arrivals have turned Jersey train stations into transit points for migrants headed to New York City.

Joining us now, we have CNN's senior national correspondent Ed Lavandera from Eagle Pass, Texas. Ed, what more are you learning about these busing operations?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've reported for months how Texas Governor Greg Abbott has touted his efforts to bus migrants to largely Democratic-led cities and communities around the country, including Chicago and New York.

The New York mayor, as you mentioned, responded by passing recently an executive order requiring these charter buses to alert local emergency management officials of passenger lists of these buses and estimated time of arrival at least 32 hours before arriving in the city.

Apparently what New York City officials are accusing the governor of doing now is getting around that by dropping off migrants in northern New Jersey. And as over the weekend, we've heard reports of at least 10 different buses with as many as 400 migrants being dropped off in northern New Jersey and in some cases being given train tickets to ride into Penn Station in New York City. And a lot of those migrants are originating from places along the border here like in Eagle Pass.

New York City officials and New Jersey officials essentially saying that the governor of Texas is treating these migrants as political pawns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The solution for me as the mayor of Edison is not to pawn it off to another mayor.

[15:55:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But at the end of the day, these are desperate people that need help and we want to do the right thing and be helpful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Governor Abbott is still touting the busing of migrants to these communities, dismissing any kind of criticism, saying that the Biden administration wants illegal immigration and that he will continue to have Texas officials build more border barriers along the river here in Texas as well as continuing busing migrants to places like Chicago and New York as well.

SANCHEZ: Yes, only the latest chapter in this saga, notably how Speaker Mike Johnson headed to that region with some 60 Republican lawmakers tomorrow.

Ed Lavandera in Eagle Pass, Texas, for us. Ed, thanks so much for the report.

And thank you so much for joining us on CNN NEWS CENTRAL. Brianna, always a pleasure to be with you. A 2024, another great year ahead.

KEILAR: Certainly is.

And "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts after this short break. Happy New Year, everyone.