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December Jobs Numbers Released; Rana Foroohar is Interviewed about the Economy; Biden and Trump on Campaign Trail; Biden Gives Speech on Democracy; Shooting at Iowa School. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 05, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:43]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: 2024 campaign firsts. President Biden kicks off the year with a major speech designed to frame the election around perils to democracy. And with just ten days to go before Iowa, right here on CNN, Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis seem to decide they have to run against Donald Trump.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Will it be too late is the question?

All right, a swift and immediate response. New details on the investigation into the Perry, Iowa, high school shooting that left a sixth grader dead and five other people wounded.

BERMAN: The December jobs report just in, and it is a good one. Very. Job gains beat expectations again. Twenty-five straight months with unemployment below 4 percent.

Kate is away. I'm John Berman, with Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BERMAN: The breaking news, the jobs numbers just in. And this is the economy that just keeps on giving. And 216,000 jobs added to the U.S. economy in December, beating expectations by a fair amount. The unemployment rate unchanged from the previous month. Very, very low at 3.7 percent. Numbers that continue to be just plain strong, maybe a little too strong for the stock market, which we'll get to, but play -- let's start with the good numbers here.

CNN's Rahel Solomon here to break it all down.

Rahel.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, it's the economy that keeps on giving and giving and giving. It has been giving now for 36 months of positive job growth with this newest report, you're absolutely right.

So, let's go through the numbers. It's 216,000. As you said, that is stronger than expectations. Expectations, for perspective, were closer to 160,000 for the month of December. Unemployment sticking at 3.7 percent, guys. We have been in this range of really low unemployment of about 4 percent or below 4 percent for, John, as you said, about two years now.

If you look at where we saw job growth over the last month, in the month of December, a part of this was a continuation of what we have been seeing. We continue to see government add jobs to the tune of about 52,000 jobs, health care adding 38,000 jobs, and construction adding 17,000 jobs.

When we look at the prior months, guys, and look at the revisions, we actually saw two revisions lower. So, for the month of November, that number was actually revised lower by 26,000 jobs. The month of October was revised lower by 45,000 jobs.

So, let's put this all in perspective. This is, as you said, John, a strong jobs report. This is a robust jobs report. Perhaps a little bit warmer than some would expect. That's part of the reason why you saw futures fall after this report was released. And the reason why is because it's pretty much inevitable at this point. The Fed has indicated that rate cuts are coming in 2024. And so the question becomes when. When are they coming? What meeting do we start to see rate cuts? And a report like this that is stronger than expected suggests that they may be coming later in the year, perhaps later spring, perhaps early summer, and so some patience might be required here. The hope, of course, was that if we saw a cooler labor market, not cold, but something a little bit softer, then maybe those rate cuts would come a bit earlier in the year.

But this is not that. This is a strong report.

BERMAN: Strong. And I took a quick look at it, digested as much as I could. I seemed to see that the wage numbers were pretty good also, that people's wages were up over 4 percent year to year?

SOLOMON: Yes, so wages on a monthly basis were at 0.4 percent. And I'll pull up on an annual basis, they were up 4.1 percent. So, this is one of those things, John, that sort of has two sides to it. So, this is - this is good news for American workers. Obviously, you want to see your paychecks go up. You want to see that nice little boost there. And, by the way, wages have started to outpace inflation, so that's some good news.

The other side of this, however, is that the Fed watches this to sort of ensure that we're not seeing a wage price spiral, essentially that higher wages aren't fueling inflation. That's not what we have seen just yet, but it is something that they continue to watch.

But, yes, as you said, certainly good news for American workers that their pay continues to move on up - move on up.

BERMAN: All right, Rahel Solomon, thank you so much for this. Thank you also for helping me prepare for my interview with Janet Yellen next hour. Rahel sent me questions overnight for that. As always, thank you.

[09:05:00]

Sara. SIDNER: All right, joining me now, CNN global economic analyst and "Financial Times" associate editor and global business columnist, Rana Foroohar.

Thank you so much for being here.

RANA FOROOHAR, GLOBAL BUSINESS COLUMNIST AND ASSOCIATE EDITOR, "FINANCIAL TIMES": Thanks for having me.

SIDNER: In person.

FOROOHAR: Yes, exactly.

SIDNER: Well done. This is nice.

FOROOHAR: Exactly.

SIDNER: So, we just heard this report. Better than expected. Do you think this is going -- a trend that's going to continue?

FOROOHAR: So, I think looking for trends in 2024 is going to be really hard.

SIDNER: Fraught.

FOROOHAR: Yes. If I have one word for this year it's volatility, right? You know, I was saying that I thought Jay Powell, the Fed chair, had gotten a little ahead of his skis saying, oh, we're going to get three rate cuts. You know, the market's really rallied. There's a lot going on in the economy right now and in the world.

SIDNER: Yes.

FOROOHAR: You know, you've still got two hot wars. You know, you've got big changes afoot in labor markets. You've have technology, like AI, coming onboard. So, it's really, really tough to predict.

What's interesting to me is main street and Wall Street don't want the same thing, right? I mean on --

SIDNER: Yes. It drives me nuts.

FOROOHAR: It -

SIDNER: I have to tell you, it literally drives me crazy because we all say, OK, everything's going great. But there are a lot of Americans that aren't in Wall Street, that aren't -

FOROOHAR: A hundred percent. Drives me crazy.

SIDNER: Right.

FOROOHAR: My whole first book was about this.

You know, the bottom line is, most people get most of their money from a paycheck. SIDNER: Right.

FOROOHAR: And so, look, this is a good report. This shows us that we have a strong economy. Bidenomics, I think, is actually working. Now, whether folks are going to buy that at the election - you know, at the ballot box, I don't know. But - but this is a good thing. This says, look, we have, you know, inflation that is reasonably under control. Yes, you've got some wage growth. But, again, that's a good thing.

I'm not so worried about markets correcting. Look, I've got a 401(k). you know, I look at it. I worry. But, at the end of the day, stocks -- basically 85 percent of stocks are owned by the top 10 percent of Americans.

SIDNER: Right.

FOROOHAR: So, this is a good jobs report. Let's be happy. Let's start the year on an optimistic note.

SIDNER: We can -- we can celebrate that. And the Biden administration can celebrate that as well, which they are doing.

FOROOHAR: Indeed. Absolutely.

SIDNER: What areas, though, are you seeing the most growth in?

FOROOHAR: Yeah. So, it's interesting to me, and we just heard you saw a lot in government, you saw a lot in construction, which actually says to me, some of that fiscal stimulus that we saw, that build back money is flowing through the economy. You still haven't seen a real manufacturing jobs boom, which actually kind of goes to the fact that technology can do a lot of those jobs now.

You did see hospitality and leisure go up. That's - that - part of that is December, right? We had a stronger holiday season than many of us thought we were going to have. We actually got record spending numbers. They were back to pre-pandemic numbers in terms of what people were shelling out for friends and family for presents. So, I think some of that is reflected in those numbers.

December, again, tends to be a very unusual month. So, I would - I would not make too many predictions from this. Three is a trend. You know, talk to me again in March and we'll see where we are.

SIDNER: And we will talk to you again in March.

FOROOHAR: And many times before, I assume.

SIDNER: One more thing. We've heard about the rate cuts.

FOROOHAR: Yes.

SIDNER: We've heard that that was predicted by the Fed. What -- when I say inflation, where are we right now? And what do those rate cuts -- you see those really being a thing because a lot of people who are trying to buy homes are watching those really closely. FOROOHAR: Oh, man, the housing market -

SIDNER: It's wild.

FOROOHAR: Is, you know, where the rubber meets the road on all this because, you know, one of the reasons that house prices are still so high is we've had all that easy money, all those low rates for so many years. Many of us, like me, have locked in low rates. Now you get them climbing up in the last 18 months or so and there's this weird arbitrage where, you know, I would actually love to move into a smaller house. My second child is leaving for college next year.

SIDNER: Oh.

FOROOHAR: I know. I know.

SIDNER: Are you going to be an empty nester at this point?

FOROOHAR: I -- don't say that.

SIDNER: I'm sorry.

FOROOHAR: I don't want to talk about that.

SIDNER: John's - John's over here crying, too.

FOROOHAR: (INAUDIBLE).

But, you know, the point being that, OK, yes, I could move into a smaller house, but then I would have to take a mortgage, you know, that's maybe more like 7 percent instead of the 2.875 that I have now.

SIDNER: Right. Right. Oh, that's right.

FOROOHAR: So, it's - there's a lot going on in housing. And I know a lot of Americans want some more stability there. Hopefully the second half of this year we'll see it.

SIDNER: All right, well, I like that we can celebrate good news at the top of the show.

FOROOHAR: Absolutely.

SIDNER: That feels really good, Rana. Thank you so much for being here. We'll see you back in March.

FOROOHAR: Absolutely.

SIDNER: We'll check on you.

All right, as just -- John just mentioned, we're going to talk more about this in a live interview. He is going to be talking to Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen. So, we might make some news -- actually, John will make some news, guaranteed, next hour.

All right, 2020 deja vu. Today, both President Biden and Donald Trump are making their cases for a second stint in the White House. In just a few hours, President Biden is expected to deliver a speech kicking off his 2024 campaign by calling Donald Trump a threat to democracy.

Meanwhile, the former president is heading to Iowa where his GOP opponents have decided it is finally time to come for him. But we're just days away before the Iowa caucuses. Ten to be exact. So, will that stick?

CNN's Jeff Zeleny is in Cumming, Iowa. And it looks like it's pretty cold out there. But Iowans are very hearty folks and I'm sure they'll be caucusing like never before.

Jeff.

[09:10:01]

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Sara, good morning.

The candidates are hitting the campaign trail this morning. Ron DeSantis will be here behind me in a little bit of time. Donald Trump making his first visit of the year to Iowa today. And he, of course, was at the center of many attacks last night in our back-to-back town halls with Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis. They were really sharpening their arguments to Iowa voters that Donald Trump may not be the best nominee for the party, may not be the best president for the country, hitting hard on that electability message, and picking apart some of his record.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump's not willing to show up on the debate stage. Has he come to communities and answered questions? Has he gone to all 99 counties? Heck, has he even gone to nine counties?

We need a change agent in Washington. We need somebody that's going to go in there, actually unwind the bureaucracy, which Trump promised to do and didn't do. We need a president that's going to stop the border invasion by building a wall, which Trump promised to do but didn't do.

NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Chaos follows him. And we all know that's true. Chaos follows him. And we can't have a country in disarray, and a world on fire, and go through four more years of chaos. We won't survive it.

Everybody wants to talk about the economy they had under Trump. But at what cost? At what cost? $8 trillion in four years. In a couple years we'll be paying more money in interest payments than we are on our defense budget. Do you know who notices that? Russia, China and Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, clearly the substance of much of the discussion last night at the town halls was about Donald Trump, about his electability, about what he did in office. The question is, can these rivals whittle away enough of his support. He's been leading in every poll for the last year. He has a commanding lead. But polls don't vote, people do. And that voting starts here, Sara, in ten days. So, we will see if any minds were changed. But the Trump campaign, from their point of view, they are saying that complacency among their own supporters is one of their biggest worries. If he looks like he's so far ahead in the polls, will they actually turn out and vote? That's why he is coming back to Iowa to have a couple events today and through the weekend. So, this race finally feels like it's a pretty joined.

One thing not discussed much last night was January 6th or the insurrection. Of course, President Biden will be making that argument. And that is a reminder that the general election also not too far away, Sara.

SIDNER: Yes, all of what you're saying, very interesting, very true. We will wait to see what happens in the caucuses in the next ten days and also wait to see what Biden says because January 6th, the anniversary, is tomorrow.

Thank you so much, Jeff Zeleny, for being out there and doing all that work. I know you've got plenty more to go.

ZELENY: That's right.

BERMAN: You know the caucuses are close if you can't see Jeff Zeleny's ears because it means that winter is here.

A big day for President Biden's re-election campaign, as Jeff was saying, the speech near Valley Forge in Pennsylvania designed to frame the election around the threat that President Biden says Donald Trump poses to democracy. This is how the deputy campaign manager explained it to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUENTIN FULKS, BIDEN-HARRIS DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Donald Trump is telling us every day who he's going to be if he's re-elected president, a dictator on day one, ripping health care away from millions of people. These are threats to democracy, and we feel that the American people deserve to hear these things from us. And it's a moral responsibility of this campaign to paint that picture for the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That is what we expect to hear today at Valley Forge. Valley Forge is where George Washington led the colonial forces through a harsh winter as they fought the tyranny of the British in the Revolution.

One man who knows that is the author of "Washington's Farewell," and CNN political analyst -- senior political analyst, John Avlon. Joining us also, former RNC communications director, Republican strategist, and Revolutionary War veteran, Doug Heye.

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Not quite that old yet. BERMAN: John, (INAUDIBLE) -

HEYE: War of 1812 maybe.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

BERMAN: President Biden, John, speaks later today at about 3:15. This speech with the campaign is really leaning into as how they want to frame this year. Why is this important to them? Why this message?

AVLON: First of all, I think the iconography of Valley Forge is significant. We go through these Valley Forge moments periodically in our history where it feels like democracy's back is against the wall, it feels like an existential struggle. And we get through them. And I think that perspective is the thing we have least of in our politics right now. I think the other thing it reminds us is that politics is history in the present tense.

The stakes in this election are democracy. It's not just Donald Trump saying it. Look at the number of at least two dozen former Donald Trump advisers from the White House warning that he should not be re- elected because of threats to democracy. So, it's not a partisan issue. I think the trick is for President Biden to thread that needle, to put it in historical perspective, to not simply demonize Trump supporters, but to try to create the broadest possible coalition beyond partisanship to defend democracy and have that be the clarion call. A lot of people criticized him in the midterm elections for doubling down on democracy.

[09:15:02]

They said you should do kitchen table issues instead. Exit polls showed that worked.

BERMAN: Interesting. I was just going to ask you, Doug, is this the right message for President Biden given the jobs numbers we just saw which are genuinely very good. Is he better spending his time talking about threats to democracy or leaning into an economic record?

HEYE: Well, you can do both. You can walk and chew gum at the same time, or at least that should be your goal as a president or a candidate.

And, look, I think there's also a challenge for Biden here. You talked earlier that this is an economy that keeps on giving. For a lot of voters, it's an economy that keeps on taking. When they spend money on a sandwich, when they go to a restaurant, when they spend money on anything that costs more than it did three years ago or they don't spend the money because they can't afford the financing on a car or a home, that's a problem for voters, and Biden has to deal with that.

The other part of this, which he's going to address in Valley Forge today, to me sounds an awful lot like what we heard Nikki Haley say last night, comes down to one word, chaos. You know, you can couch it in the terms of democracy, Joe Biden is making a chaos argument. It's one that Nikki Haley, I think, made very effectively last night. But here's a reality of political communications and why we haven't

seen really much change in the primaries yet. Saying something at a forum here or there or at a town hall or in a speech here or there, whether you're Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley, that doesn't break through. People may be watching a sporting event, they may be streaming something, they may be doing something else. You have to say that message over and over and over again and you have to put resources behind it on television, in digital, to make sure that voters don't hear it once, they hear it 10 times, 15 times so it absorbs. Having this nine days out from the New Hampshire primary may be too little and too late.

AVLON: Well, look, I -- it's about time I think is the key point. I agree with you, it's too late. Campaigns are about contrasts. But last night both Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley, in different ways, drew the clear contrast with Donald Trump. I was particularly struck by Nikki Haley's contrast by saying that Donald Trump loves dictators and he contributed to a massive increase in the national debt, $8 trillion, which leads to a lot of those economic challenges we've seen - we see today, particularly high interest rates and inflation. Those are things Democrats need to play offense on, they need to play offense on the border as well. It's not simply enough to talk about democracy. But democracy's fundamental. Everything is based upon that. And I think we forget that (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: Yes, you guys both talking about the events last night. First of all, those town halls, they were very good.

AVLON: Yes. Yes, they were. Yes.

BERMAN: They were very well done. And I have to say, the candidates themselves, we learned more about them than I think we have in so much that we've seen over the last several months. That said, it was different. Both those candidates were talking about Donald Trump in ways that they really haven't.

Here is Ron DeSantis talking about the moral difference that he would make in the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're not going to be -- have to worry about my conduct. I'll conduct myself in a way you can be proud of. I'll conduct myself in a way you can tell your kids, you know, that's somebody that you should emulate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You know, as Doug was saying, John, you know, ten days left now, that was a different message. How much can that different message, how much of a difference can it make in the next few days?

AVLON: It can make a difference because there's a lot of Iowa voters who are undecided, who are looking - whether -- if they're looking for an alternative to Donald Trump, are they going to go with DeSantis, are they going to go with Nikki Haley? Some folks who are Trump supporters are maybe looking for permission if they can find someone who meets their policy goals but doesn't bring that degree of destructive baggage. And that was an argument also aimed at evangelicals. An argument you hear a lot. You need a president who people can aspire to emulate. Who they can tell their children, be a little more like him. And it's hard to do that with Donald Trump. That's part of the Foustian (ph) bargain that's been made. And so I think that argument was - again, you could argue it's too little too late, but campaigns are about contrast. It's about damn time.

BERMAN: Doug, you know, I've covered a lot of losing campaigns, and I don't know who's going to win or lose this campaign, but -

HEYE: I worked on a lot of losing campaigns.

BERMAN: But almost every losing campaign, the candidate seems to actually find the right message like the second-to-last day. Largely because it's a bulwark thing, largely because they feel like they have nothing left to lose here. But to an extent, if this what both Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis, how they should have been framing this all along?

HEYE: I think the chaos argument, whether you're Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley, is one that you could have made from the first indictment on, and you could have said, listen, maybe Donald Trump is treated fairly or unfairly here, but he's going to be distracted and he can't campaign and focus on Joe Biden because he's surrounded by chaos wherever he goes and Republicans need a candidate who can do that. And, by the way, I'm that candidate.

The other thing that Nikki Haley did last night, she reminded us of what grace and courage she showed. She showed that grace under pressure that Ernest Hemingway called courage when she brought disparate parts of South Carolina together to bring down the confederate flag. That's leadership. That's the Nikki Haley that caught not just Americans' attention but the world's attention. More of that, I think, early on would have been better for Haley as well.

Look, New Hampshire is, I think, more in play, or at least more interesting to look at than Iowa. Iowa, it seems the cake is baked here. So, this is an opportunity still for Nikki Haley. But we can't hear this message once or twice in speeches. She has to use her significant resources, $24 million raised over the last month to make sure that voters hear this over and over again.

[09:20:07]

BERMAN: All right, John Avlon, Doug Heye, great discussion. Thank you very much.

You know what, we're going to have a chance to see how much Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis continue this message. We're going to have that chance right here on CNN. The CNN Republican presidential debate, Haley and Ron DeSantis on the same stage this time, next week, it's at Drake University in Des Moines, 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time next Wednesday.

SIDNER: All right, new details this morning about the deadly shooting at an Iowa high school. What the principal did to save lives there and how he's doing now after undergoing surgery because he was shot.

Plus, the Supreme Court back in session next hour for the first time this year, and the fate of the 2024 election could be on their docket. We will see.

And CNN sits down with Gypsy Rose Blanchard, now out of jail after she admitted to helping her boyfriend kill her abusive mother. She reveals what she would tell her mom today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, disturbing new details emerging this morning about the school shooting in Perry, Iowa, that left a sixth grader dead and several others hurt.

[09:25:00]

So, a TikTok shared on social media, believed to be from the 17-year- old shooter, shows him posing in a school bathroom before he opened fire.

We're also learning more about the victims who include Perry High School's principal who was hurt. Dan Marburger's daughter says he tried to distract and stop the shooter by talking to him.

Veronica Miracle is in Perry, Iowa, with the latest for us.

Veronica.

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, this community is just in mourning over the sixth grader who was killed, also the other people who were injured. Five other people were injured, four students and one staff member. All of the injured are expected to survive. But the staff member, the principal of Perry High School, identified by his daughter on Facebook as Dan Marburger, had to go into surgery. He is in stable condition. His daughter also saying in that post that her father tried to help save lives, saying, quote, "he tried to approach and talk Dylan, the shooter, down and distract him long enough for some students to get out. As many of you know dad, he is a gentle giant, an amazing dad and an amazing person."

This is a very small community, John. The entire school district has only about 1,800 students. So, everyone knows everybody. Last night at a vigil CNN spoke to a woman who says she knows the boy who was killed.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSICA CONRAD, PERRY, IOWA, RESIDENT: A friend - a friend of ours, and (INAUDIBLE) like my second kids, his friends, and had heard that he was missing and he lives in our neighborhood. So, I went to ask and heard from the family themselves. And he really is just the sweetest boy. The one you want your kids to be friends with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIRACLE: So heartbreaking.

Now, what's front and center for investigators is a motive. They're trying to figure out why exactly this happened. They're looking at social media posts from before, that the shooter posted before the shooting, as well as around the time of the shooting on TikTok posting from inside a bathroom inside the school with the caption "now we wait."

And we're also learning from two students who spoke with ABC News that bullying may have been a factor in this shooting, saying that they believed he was bullied since elementary school.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He got tired of the bullying. He got tired of the harassment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We tried to be there when he needed us -- us, which clearly we weren't there for him enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIRACLE: The 17-year-old shooter died from a self-inflicted gunshot injury.

John.

BERMAN: Oh, that's a lot. That is a lot for kids on their first day back from school after Christmas, and will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

Veronica Miracle, for us in Perry, keep us posted.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, in just a bit, the Supreme Court is meeting behind closed doors. The question along a lot of people's minds is certainly on campaign and Donald Trump's mind, will they take up Donald Trump's appeal cementing his name on state presidential ballots. Overnight, two more states facing calls to strike his name.

Also ahead, a new congressional report details millions of dollars spent at Trump properties by Chinese entities all while he was president. We'll speak to the ranking member on that committee coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)