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DeSantis and Haley Debate in Iowa; Trump's Solo Town Hall; Tornadoes Hit Florida Panhandle; House Committees Meet about Hunter Biden and Mayorkas; Trump Juggles Campaigning and Court. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 10, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:44]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Headed-to-head for the very first time. Tonight's the big night for Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis. The final Republican presidential debate before Iowa voters have their say, all right here on CNN.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Floods and blizzards and tornados, oh, my. We are just getting word of evacuations from this devastating storm, and it's not done yet.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: And, more trouble brewing for Boeing. The company is now acknowledging a mistake over a door plug ripping off an Alaska Airlines flight in midair, leaving a huge hole behind. We'll have the latest on the investigation that's underway right now.

I'm Sara Sidner, with Kate Bolduan and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: Tonight, Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis are going head-to-head for the very first time on the debate stage in Des Moines, Iowa. That prime time matchup happening right here on CNN, if I didn't already say so. And literally they have no time to lose in this final week before the first votes, which are really caucuses in Iowa. Meaning, this is the last chance for Donald Trump's top two rivals to make their hope of being the best Trump alternative a reality. Trump won't be there again, but overnight the former president snagged a new endorsement from the third highest ranking Republican in the Senate, John Barrasso from Wyoming. Again raising the question, do endorsements matter, do they matter at all when it comes to Donald Trump and his supporters, and also does a senator from Wyoming have much impact on voters from Iowa? We'll have to see.

We know one thing, Nikki Haley for her part, is taking to the stage tonight with some real momentum after a new CNN poll puts her within single digits of Donald Trump, not in Iowa, but in New Hampshire.

Let's get back to Iowa.

CNN's Eva McKend joins us from Iowa this morning.

Eva, tonight's the big night. What are you expecting? EVA MCKEND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is, Kate. You know, this opportunity

tonight for Governor DeSantis, for Nikki Haley, it allows voters for the first time to see them side by side. Believe it or not, there are still some undecided Iowans going into this evening, and so they are trying to land on a clear Trump alternative, and this gives them the opportunity to do so.

Policy differences will also come into focus. We're hearing from DeSantis' deputy campaign manager, and he says that the governor is really going to push Nikki Haley into answering questions that she previously has evaded. That has been a consistent argument of her opponents, that she isn't concrete on certain policy matters, on certain conservative policy matters.

I will say, from being out on the campaign trail, that things have really intensified in the last few days. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I like being under estimated. So, you know, I could sit here and say this, but you know what, I think that being the underdog suits me better. So, buckle up. I think it's going to be a - it's going to be an interesting ride.

NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have been waiting for this. I have done 150-plus town halls.

And it has come to this moment.

Don't complain about what happens in a general election if you don't play in this caucus. It matters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: So, some might sort of diminish the importance of debates, but I can tell you from being at several Nikki Haley town halls, speaking to her supporters showing up there, they tell me that they were in part attracted to her campaign and candidacy based on her past debate performances, based on some of those high-profile exchanges that she had with Vivek Ramaswamy, for instance.

So, we know tonight could turn out to be hugely consequential for the former ambassador and for the governor.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Eva, you won't find me diminishing the import of any debate, especially a CNN debate. Any time the candidates can face real questions is a good thing for the process.

Good to see you, Eva. Thank you.

BERMAN: Yes, me neither, for the record, me neither. Debates are very important, especially tonight's debate in Iowa.

[09:05:02] Donald Trump, however, has other plans. He's doing his own town hall.

CNN's Alayna Treene joins us now with the latest on that.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Yes, well, good morning, John.

I think this week is a really good preview of what we can expect in the months to come from Donald Trump and his campaign as we look forward to the 2024 election. And, look, he's splitting (ph) between the courtrooms and the campaign trail. Yesterday, Donald Trump was in D.C. sitting in on -- in court in a D.C. federal appeals court listening to the arguments from his lawyers about their claims for immunity. Tonight, he is doing to be doing a Fox News town hall, skipping our CNN debate, and instead sitting for that Fox News town hall in Iowa and then he's back in a totally different courtroom, an entirely different case. He's going to be sitting in on the closing arguments in his New York City fraud trial. And then this weekend he's going to be back in Iowa campaigning in the immediate days before Monday's caucuses.

And, look, I think this really shows you what the Trump campaign strategy is around tying his political strategy to his legal teams' strategy. Donald Trump really cares about these cases. I think if you look at both why he was in D.C. yesterday, why he was going to New York tomorrow.

These are two different cases, but both things that he cares deeply about. His New York City fraud trial is something that really strikes to the core of who Donald Trump is, and that's why he wants to show up. And I should point that out. He doesn't need to be in court. He is choosing to take himself off the campaign trail in order to sit in, in these separate court appearances.

And there's a big strategy here. The political strategy to it as well, in addition to him just wanting to be there, is that his team recognizes that him being in court sucks up all of the oxygen away from the other candidates. This is a very crucial time, as Eva pointed out, that these candidates are trying to gain that last-minute traction before Monday. And when Donald Trump is out there talking about his legal issues, being in court, it takes a lot of the media attention away from them. It's also a great fundraising opportunity for the former president and his campaign.

Now, John, I also just want to quickly point your attention to some of the endorsements that we've been seeing come out over the past week. We just saw Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming, the third highest ranking senator, announce his endorsement for Donald Trump last night. And this is all part of the Trump campaign's plan according to my report with some of our CNN colleagues. Donald Trump's campaign has been really escalating their effort to try and get as many endorsements from Republican lawmakers, as well as governors, and people across the country really, to come in before Iowa. And part of that has been them subtly telling a lot of these lawmakers that they're watching who is endorsing pre and post-Iowa. And I think that's why you're seeing a lot of these endorsements come out this week. BERMAN: Yes. If you want to see what John Barrasso looks like, an

attractive man, the senator from Wyoming right there, the number three in the Senate, now endorsing Donald Trump.

And, Alayna, I think you make a great point, we need to stop talking about the campaign trail and the courtroom. The courtroom is the campaign trail for Donald Trump.

TREENE: Exactly.

BERMAN: Alayna Treene, thanks very much.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, with us now, CNN political analyst and vice president of digital content and anchor of "The Grio" weekly, Natasha Alford. Also with us, CNN political commentator and president of the Manhattan Institute, Reihan Salam.

Thank you both for being here.

Natasha, I wish I could have you next to me. I just saw you in the makeup room. But, you know, needs must.

I'm going to start with you, Reihan.

DeSantis' spokesperson has said that he's going to, quote, "make Nikki Haley answer the questions that she has yet to answer" at CNN's debate tonight. What kind of questions do you think that will be? There are people who criticize her for sort of saying things to the audience and not necessarily keeping a very strict -- what's the word - idea. Like, her ideas seem to change a bit with the audience that she's in front of.

REIHAN SALAM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, the fundamental challenge for Governor Haley is that she came into office in 2011 and left in 2017. That was a different era of Republican politics, whereas, Governor DeSantis came of age, he really succeeded, came on the national scene in the Trump era. And there's a different set of issues and controversies. Nikki Haley was very much a tea party governor, very focused on fiscal responsibility and that set of issues. And so some of the issues around cultural controversies, around China, these are issues that look very different today than they did ten years ago. And she, in a way, is struggling to catch up with where the Republican base is today. And I think that he's going to try to hold her feet to the fire on those issues.

SIDNER: Yes, it will be interesting to see because I am curious for you to talk -- I'm curious what you think about the fact that they probably are going to go after each other because the frontrunner is not there. What do you think they need to communicate to the audience tonight?

NATASHA ALFORD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, great to be with you, Sara. I will come find you after this segment to say hello again. [09:10:01]

But, you know, the most important thing that we have to realize is that Donald Trump is doing counter programming strategically, right? He is the make character, and he wants to keep it that way. An that's why he's been able to avoid being a part of these debates. And his rivals aren't helping when they show that they are afraid to go after him, right? They're so concerned about still courting his voters and making sure that they don't offend those voters, that they haven't gone after him in the way that is necessary to really distinguish themselves.

And so his choice to compete with tonight's debate is going to work for the MAGA base. They're going love what they see. This is a town hall. You know, it's going away from the kind of bombastic, at the podium preaching that he does, and it's a little bit more intimate. It's a little bit about meeting voters where they are and hearing their concerns. But the polls show that he is leaps and bounds ahead. And so all eyes will be on him. The room stops, you know, when he speaks. And so if - if his rivals want to make a difference, they have to continue going after him.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you both, and I'll start with you, Raihan, about what we heard from Nikki Haley, how she and DeSantis reacted to questions about Donald Trump and his legal issues, of which there are so many that's going to take up a lot of his time, as he's going through this campaign. Listen to what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe that the former president is immune from prosecution in these cases?

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think it's kind of a novel issue. I think the D.C. Circuit will rule against him. I mean it's a liberal circuit. And I think they're going to hot wire this thing.

NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, he shouldn't be taken off the ballot. And the Supreme Court needs to rule quickly before other states start to do this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: OK. So, Ron DeSantis took the Trump train for that one, and Nikki Haley was a little more pointed and serious in her answer. But he went after the courts. What do you think about their response, and is that sort of speaking just to the base and not to the general?

SALAM: Well, I'll say that Governor DeSantis' answer struck me as analytical, just describing what he sees as a likely outlook. And Governor Haley was referring to a somewhat separate issue regarding whether or not he belongs on the ballot under this novel 14th Amendment theory. So, I'm not sure how much we can glean from that.

What I will say is a very interesting element of all of this is the idea that Governor Haley might actually benefit from Governor DeSantis remaining in the race, at least through New Hampshire. Why is that? Because I think some believe that if Governor DeSantis were to get out of the race, that a lot of those votes would go to Donald Trump rather than to Nikki Haley. So, I think that there is a weird way in which, yes, they're rivals, they're both in a sense competing for second place in Iowa, but also there's a strange way in which if Nikki Haley is going to have a shot, she doesn't necessarily want him out quickly.

SIDNER: That is a really interesting analysis.

Natasha, I'm curious what you think happens if Nikki Haley ends up coming in second, because the polling is so very clear that Donald Trump is the frontrunner in Iowa.

ALFORD: Well, I think momentum indicates possibility, right, and that is part of the reason why Donald Trump has shifted his attacks towards Nikki Haley. Even though he tries to project confidence, and that he is completely unbothered by the fact that she's polling so well in New Hampshire, if she pulls this off, she helps to make Ron DeSantis irrelevant and basically she's able to build on that momentum.

So, I think this could be a really big moment for her, for those who say that, you know, the MAGA party will never depart from Donald Trump, she could be a proof point that people do want an alternative.

SIDNER: Natasha Alford, Raihan Salam, thank you both for coming in on this glorious Wednesday before the debate. We appreciate it.

And, don't forget, you can watch that debate right here on CNN. It all starts tonight, 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: We're also watching the weather right now. Major flooding is having a real impact in the northeast, as dangerous winter storms, that we've been talking about, continue to sweep across the country. Multiple counties in New Jersey are just getting battered. Let me show you some video. People are being urged right now to get to higher ground in some places, others being evacuated. Officials are already reporting at least four deaths from the storms in Georgia, Alabama, and North Carolina just yesterday. That also has left more than 600,000 people without power this morning.

The Pacific Northwest, look here, saw blizzard-like conditions on Tuesday. In Mitchellville, Iowa, heavy snow made for very dangerous conditions on the roads. We know that some roads were shut down by the Iowa state police at points.

Also, take a look at Florida. Florida's panhandle, at least a dozen tornadoes carved a big path of destruction there, knocking this home right off its foundation.

Let's get over to CNN's Derek Van Dam. He's in Panama City, Florida.

[09:15:01] Derek, when it comes to these storms, you could go to any portion of the country to see some serious damage from what we've been seeing sweep across the country. What are you seeing and hearing from people there?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS CERTIFIED METEOROLOGIST: Yes, it stretches all the way from the state of Florida, where I'm located, all the way into New England, right. We're in Panama City Beach and cleanup is well under way.

And talk about a stroke of bad luck. So, this is the Pirates Cove directly behind me. It's the marina. You can see several boats impacted by some of the apparent tornado damage. Believe it or not, this same structure, on the other side, was heavily damaged by Hurricane Michael back in 2018. Fast forward a couple of years to 2024, just yesterday, and now we have destruction from an apparent tornado.

That was what people had to deal with and contend with here. This is part of the over a dozen tornados that came ashore. They started as water spouts in the Gulf of Mexico, moved onshore across the Florida panhandle and caused this path of destruction. This is really just a drop in the bucket. But I want you to get a little bit closer here because we had some intel from some of the local residents here that there are a million dollar plus boats at the bottom portion here. A couple of them have seen damage, but several of them barred from the worst of this. But the sleet metal just wrapped around some of these boats within this area.

But we have seen complete buildings and homes that have tilted on their side, lost from their foundations. We've seen walls collapsed, homes that have been completely demolished. We even saw, I noticed this with my producer a few minutes ago as well, even the spices within a spice rack of an exposed kitchen. It just kind of shows you this indiscriminate force of tornados that can whip winds over 100 miles per hour.

Unfortunately, Kate, the last thing people want to know about is more severe weather. That threat looms heavy for Thursday, Friday, and Saturday for this region.

BOLDUAN: It is not over yet, that's for sure.

VAN DAM: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Derek, thank you so much.

John.

BERMAN: All right, very shortly, the House will begin impeachment proceedings for Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, as Republicans also move toward a vote to hold Hunter Biden in contempt of Congress.

And as we said, the courtroom is now the campaign trail. Will Donald Trump perform his own closing arguments in his New York trial tomorrow?

A living nightmare. Masked gunmen storm a live TV broadcast, as gang attacks and kidnappings take over a country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:21:42]

SIDNER: Minutes from now, the House Oversight and Judiciary Committees will consider whether they want to hold Hunter Biden in contempt of Congress. It comes after the president's son failed to comply with a subpoena for a closed-door deposition last month. Biden had said he would agree to a public testimony. And another House committee will begin hearings to consider impeaching DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas.

CNN's Capitol reporter Melanie Zanona is joining us now.

This is quite unprecedented on many different levels. What can we expect during these two committee hearings today?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, well, Sara, I think we can expect some fireworks today. Republicans have set their sights on two different impeachment efforts. Not only President Joe Biden, but also now Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas. But with Biden, Republicans have really struggled so far to prove that he either profited or made policy decisions because of his son's foreign business deals.

So, Republicans have long seen Hunter Biden as a crucial witness for their impeachment inquiry probe. They did issue a subpoena for him to appear for closed-door testimony last December. But Hunter Biden has only said he would appear for a public hearing. He says he doesn't want to have his testimony cherry picked and selectively leaked. And on the day of his scheduled deposition, he showed up to the Capitol and just did a press conference outside, which prompted Republicans to move ahead with contempt proceedings.

So, that brings us to today when you have two different committees, both oversight and judiciary, planning to mark up a resolution that would refer Hunter Biden to the DOJ for being in contempt of Congress. After that, a resolution would head to the full floor, potentially as early as next week, and then, Sara, it would be up to the DOJ to determine whether to actually prosecute the president's son.

SIDNER: So, we will all be watching that. As this unfolds, though, the Homeland Security Committee is holding their first of what is likely to be a series of hearings considering impeachment for DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas. What's this all about?

ZANONA: Yes, so this comes as Republicans have really put a renewed focus on impeaching Mayorkas. This comes as the border has really become a defining issue. It's created a lot of momentum inside the GOP, particularly among moderate members in swing districts who see his as a defaming campaign issue. But there's also been a lot of pressure from the right flank to go this route, especially as their Biden impeachment inquiry has floundered.

Let's take a listen to what Marjorie Taylor Greene had to say to our colleague Manu Raju.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I was furious that it took this long. And that's why I forced a vote on the House floor.

But I am encouraged that we're finally doing it on our committee. But I do have concerns. Our majority is now down to numbers that make it impossible to lose a single vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: Now, I talked to the chairman of the Homeland Committee, Mark Green, over the weekend. He said, in terms of what to expect from today's hearing, it's not going to be any new evidence. It's basically going to be a rehash of an investigation that he had conducted over the last three months into problems at the southern border. And then he said he's planning to move fairly quickly with impeachment articles.

But I think it's important to point out, Sara, that even if this does pass the House, it is going nowhere in the Democrat-controlled Senate. And that is because both Democrats and the White House say all of these impeachment efforts are nothing more than a political stunt from Republicans.

[09:25:01]

Sara.

SIDNER: And a couple of those Republicans have also ignored subpoenas themselves.

ZANONA: Yes.

SIDNER: So, it will be interesting to see how they --

ZANONA: Jim Jordan, who's the chairman of the Judiciary Committee. That's a great point.

SIDNER: You said it, girl. Thank you so much for your reporting.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, former President Donald Trump, he is back in Iowa today, squeezing in a day of campaigning in between appearances in court, volunteering to be in court yesterday while an appeals court considered the scope of presidential immunity with regard to his federal election subversion case. And then tomorrow he's back in court, a New York court again, again required -- again, he's not required to show up for this, but he clearly wants to for closing arguments in his civil fraud trial. He's accused of inflating his wealth by billions of dollars, something the judge overseeing the case has already found Trump liable for.

Joining us right now, CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor, Jennifer Rodgers.

It's good to see you, Jennifer.

Let's start with tomorrow and then go back to yesterday. With tomorrow, Donald Trump is planning to be back in court for the conclusion of the civil - of the civil fraud trial. When it comes to this case, because it's an interesting one when you think about it. It's - one, it's a civil case. And, two, there's no jury. This is a - this is -- everything here is decided by the judge who's been overseeing this the entire time. What does that mean the defense team should be doing with these closing arguments here?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, they largely have to do the same thing you would do in a jury trial, which is to marshal the evidence that we've heard over the last couple of months, the testimony, the documents, and make your legal arguments as to why, in the case of Donald Trump here, there should be no or less damages, right, than the attorney general wants for the fraud that the court has already found. They'll also, of course, try to chip away at the notion that there was fraud at all. And all of that really is to set up the appeal. If you don't make the arguments below, you can't appeal them. So, that's largely what they're going to try to do tomorrow.

BOLDUAN: But largely what -- when you - when you set it up that way, it almost sounds like even less of a reason for Donald Trump to be in the courtroom would -- to me, as a layman. What do you think of the fact that he doesn't need to be in court tomorrow, he didn't need to be in court yesterday, he is doing this. Is there a legal reason or is it all political?

RODGERS: It's all political at this point. When he showed up when there were witnesses on the stand -

BOLDUAN: Yes.

RODGERS: I think he was in part trying to intimidate those witnesses a little bit, influence how his lawyers questioned those witnesses. But all of that is over now. Now it's just legal arguments to the judge. There's no jury. There are no cameras. So, I think it's all about fundraising, campaigning, going outside after the proceeding and talking to the cameras for those purposes. That's really why he'll be there.

BOLDUAN: And, look, and as John said earlier in the show, the campaign and what's happening in court, they are one and the same as we have seen and even as we saw when Donald Trump was speaking out yesterday after the - after they were -- and before the appeals arguments over the election subversion case.

I want to ask you about this kind of key exchange between one of the judges and Trump's attorney yesterday when it comes to trying to sus out the scope of presidential immunity around what he's facing.

Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE PAN: I asked you a yes or no question. Could a president who ordered SEAL Team Six to assassinate a political rival, who was not impeached, would he be subject to criminal prosecution?

TRUMP ATTORNEY: If he were impeached and convicted first, and so -

JUDGE PAN: So - so your answer is no.

TRUMP ATTORNEY: Is - is - my answer is qualified yes. There is a political process that would have to occur under the structure of our constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Why is this piece so important? What do you hear in this?

RODGERS: Well, she's really trying to determine the outer limits of their arguments, right? And she's doing this by these examples that you think are crazy examples, right?

BOLDUAN: Yes.

RODGERS: Can you - can you assassinate a political rival? And she forces Trump's lawyers into saying, yes, effectively, you can, and if he's not impeached and convicted and removed, then he gets away with it scott-free, right? No one can stand that as just a matter of law, rule of law. That's what dictators have, right, is getting away with things without any consequences. So, by forcing him into this extreme position, she's really demonstrating how that can't be what the court decides, right? That's not going to be their decision.

BOLDUAN: It also seemed that the Justice Department's attorneys, they - they saw this and they reacted to it as well. And I want to play this piece of it.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES PEARCE, ASSISTANT SPECIAL COUNSEL: If, as I understood my friend on the other side to say here, a president orders his SEAL Team to assassinate a political rival, and resigns, for example, before an impeachment, not a criminal act? The president sells a pardon, resign, or is not impeached, not a crime. I think that is an extraordinarily frightening future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: I saw you describe this as - I think you said the parade of horribles. What does that mean?

RODGERS: Yes, so that's an argument technique, I guess, if you will, that lawyers use and that judges use as well, to just kind of push the outer bounds. Like, what are we really talking about here? If you agree --

BOLDUAN: How far can you go?

RODGERS: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

RODGERS: If you agree with Trump and his position here, what are we looking at as a nation?

[09:30:00]

What will it look like, presidential power, and what presidents are able to do without consequences. That's the parade of horribles, right? Both sides use it to push in different directions. But, ultimately, it also helps all.