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Hunter Biden in California Court; Interview With Rep. Tim Burchett (R-TN); Closing Arguments in Trump Civil Fraud Trial. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 11, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:38]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: As we speak, former President Trump is in a courtroom in New York speaking, no cameras in this courtroom, but, as we understand it, he is going on a bit of a monologue right now.

We're going to have the latest details on that at these closing arguments in his New York civil fraud trial with four days to go before the Iowa caucuses, Trump foregoing the campaign trial -- trail, I should say, again choosing to transform a legal appearance into a de facto campaign stop, doing it as we speak.

Right now, that is part of the defense process wrapping up, their argument. But the day started with a swatting call at Judge Arthur Engoron's home. Judge Engoron did not address the news of that in court today. He is just the latest official involved in Trump's various legal cases to face threats or a swatting incident -- Boris.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Now to the case itself.

Judge Engoron has already determined that Trump committed fraud and is liable. The trial is now going to determine what that will cost him and potentially his future as a businessman, the New York attorney general seeking $370 million in disgorgement of profits. She also wants the court to bar Trump from doing business in New York, as well as five-year bans for his two adult sons.

To recap, prosecutors argue that the Trump Organization inflated real estate values on some signature Trump properties, including his estate at Mar-a-Lago. They allege that this issue wasn't the result of simple accounting errors or subjective differences in valuations, but that they were a deliberate effort to defraud, like vastly exaggerating the square footage of certain properties.

Now, Trump and his team have denied those claims. And, meantime, as we mentioned, Trump is now talking in court right now, the judge allowing him to address the court. But, remember, just a day ago, the former president refused to agree to these preconditions set by Judge Engoron.

Of course, Trump has done most of these things just outside the courtroom, literally every time he's appeared at this trial. That was again the case this morning. We're going to find out what the former president is saying in court right now. Cameras are not allowed in that room. We are expecting he will address the courtroom from outside once this wraps up later today.

As for what the next step looks like, remember, there's no jury in this case, so no deliberations. After closing arguments, we're going to hear Judge Engoron resume the case. Then he will rule by a written ruling that he says could come as early as the end of the month. And then, of course, come the appeals that Trump and his team have promised.

Let's get the latest from inside the courtroom now with CNN's Paula Reid. She's live outside the courthouse for us.

Paula, a bit of a surprise that the judge would allow Donald Trump to address the court.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Nothing is surprising here, Boris, but things certainly taking a turn in the last few minutes.

We know, yesterday, there were negotiations, we learned, between the Trump team and the judge here about possibly allowing Trump to participate in closing arguments. Now, this would be highly unusual. Closing arguments are an opportunity for lawyers to summarize their case.

The Trump team would not agree to some restrictions the judge laid out by insisting that Trump stick to the material and relevant information and not attack the district attorney or the judge. So, things had been business as usual here. The closing arguments went forward. Trump's attorney, Chris Kise, summarized his argument.

Other attorneys got up to summarize theirs. But then Chris Kise got up just a few moments ago and asked if former President Trump could address the court. And he then launched into what our colleagues who were inside described as a monologue, telling the court -- quote -- "The facts are the financial statements are perfect. There are no witnesses against us. The banks got all their money paid back. There were great loans. This was a political witch-hunt."

That is really how Trump and his lawyers have framed this entire case as a politically motivated and manufactured allegation. Now, Trump says: "When you say don't go outside of these things, we have a situation where I am an innocent man."

So, there, he's referring to the restrictions that the judge tried to put on any participation that he would have. He said -- quote -- "I'm being persecuted by somebody running for office," referring to the district attorney, who did promise to investigate Trump when she ran for office. "He's insisting that I have to go outside of these bounds."

[13:05:03]

So here he is making his case to the court, but also arguing with the judge and the restrictions the judge wanted to put on him. Now, I want to bring in our colleague Kara Scannell, who is right next

to me. Kara was inside the court earlier for oral arguments.

Now, Kara, you called it. You knew that Trump couldn't get through the day without participating in some way. I mean, is this surprising?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, nothing in this trial has been surprising. Everything that we think is going to happen according to certain courts changes and it doesn't happen. So it doesn't surprise me at all that the judge allowed Trump to speak, because part of the reason he gave initially of why he would allow Trump to speak is he said he had more on the line in this case than anyone else.

And since there is no jury, he said it was only fair to let Trump speak. But, of course, as you just laid out, Trump went beyond the contours of what the judge wanted to be permissible here by talking about a witch-hunt, by making this a political case and not arguing just the facts in the case.

But, for closing arguments, for the bulk of it, they were mostly delivered by Chris Kise, his attorney, and he did stick to the facts in the case. And he went through the evidence that was presented, saying to the judge that the attorney general's office did not present any witnesses who testified that there was fraud here.

And that has been a core, consistent theme of the defense, that there was no banker who said they would have done anything differently if they had gotten different financial statements, so saying that the A.G. didn't meet their burden and didn't bring this case.

Now, part of Kise's closing argument, he said: "This entire case is a manufactured claim to serve a political agenda. It has always been press releases and posturing, but no proof at all. The attorney general is seeking to strip them, according to the papers, of everything. No one from the marketplace showed up and said there was a problem."

So, then, again, that's the core of this argument here, that they didn't have the witnesses testify. Now, the judge has already ruled in this case that the financial statements were fraudulent, that the values of some of these properties were inflated that, the value of Trump's triplex apartment in Manhattan was inflated.

So he's already made a number of these determinations, and even in a ruling last month, he said that some of the witnesses that Trump's team put on, he said, were just not credible. So he's already laid down the contours of what he thinks of this evidence in the case, but, of course, everyone gets their shot today to try to convince him a little bit more.

We also heard from Alina Habba, another one of the attorneys representing Trump and some of the co-defendants in this case. She made a point of saying that there was no fraud. Both she and Kise focused a lot on Michael Cohen, who was the attorney general's -- one of their witnesses, the one witness who testified that he was told indirectly by Trump to boost the values of these properties, along with Allen Weisselberg, the former CFO.

And this investigation started when Michael Cohen testified before Congress in 2019. The attorney general's office has been clear about that. So they were focusing on his credibility, because, during Cohen's testimony, initially, he said Trump directed him. Then he walked it back and said it wasn't a direct -- a directive, that it was known, an inference that Trump gives.

Now, Trump's sons are also on trial here. Eric Trump was in the courtroom today, along with Trump adviser Boris Epshteyn. He was sitting beside him. Their attorneys also had a quick shot at the end, and they also said that there was no evidence against their clients.

REID: So, even though it's a legal proceeding, very much a political event. They started their argument this is a politically motivated case, and then Trump arguing at the very end the same thing.

Boris, I'm going to toss it back to you, because I think we were expecting Trump to address the cameras after that monologue.

SANCHEZ: Yes, and, as we understand it, he will give a public statement at about 2:30 p.m. So, at some point, once this wraps up, he's going to head down to a Trump property near Wall Street to make those remarks, again, at 2:30.

We will, of course, bring them to you as they happen.

KEILAR: All right. And, certainly, we will be awaiting much more ahead, a lot of interesting stuff already happening there, as we heard from Kara. She was in the courtroom.

I want to bring in CNN's senior political analyst Gloria Borger and CNN legal analyst Carrie Cordero.

We see this, Carrie. Trump, even when he is facing legal liability, he sees political opportunity. He certainly took it in that kind of monologue that he gave in court. What do you think of what he said and what you have heard so far today?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's interesting that the judge did apparently allow him to have some statement. His attorney gave the actual closing argument, which was quite lengthy.

But then he did, he was able to say something in his own defense. What's always interesting about this case is that the legal judgment on liability, because, of course, this is a civil case, has already been made by the judge. This is all about the penalties. And a lot of the arguments that the former president's lawyers seem to be making, including in their closing arguments, goes to the merits of whether or not there was fraud, is which is already a done deal.

And so this is about the consequences. This is about the penalties. And so the former president being able to have an opportunity to say something is obviously in his interest politically, which is about all he can get out of this at this point. SANCHEZ: One of the things that strikes me about that in this regard,

Gloria, is the contrast from what we saw last night during the debate between Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley.

[13:10:04]

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

SANCHEZ: They were both talking about how these legal issues are a distraction, how voters shouldn't be concerned with these things.

Trump doesn't seem to think that. He's leaning into this all the way. And it doesn't seem to be hurting him in the least.

BORGER: Totally.

I mean, he commandeered the microphone in court and essentially gave a political speech, not only attacking Letitia James, but also attacking the judge. And he said, according to one transcript, that you can't listen for more than one minute, and that he said, I did nothing wrong, going on and on.

I'm sure we will hear more of this today. But it is quite stunning that his attorney was asked to control his client by the judge. And, clearly, he couldn't and didn't, and didn't want to. This was -- you know, this was a move that they had choreographed and planned, even though they didn't get explicit permission to do it.

And no matter what the judge said, he did -- Donald Trump did exactly what he wanted to do.

KEILAR: Asking forgiveness, right?

BORGER: Well, not really.

KEILAR: Asking forgive -- asking permission at first, being denied, not really answering that, and then maybe just dealing with it a little bit later.

CORDERO: Well, and it is a risk for the court to have him speak publicly, and though this particular judge has had to deal with the fact that the former president has made statements about the judge, has been -- made statements about court personnel.

And so there has been an underlying security issue as it relates. And as was reported at the top of the hour, there was a swatting incident apparently against this particular judge. And this swatting issue as it pertains to judges, court personnel, elected officials, I mean, this is something that is pervading not just this case, but all of the legal cases that are wrapped up into the campaign.

BORGER: It's also part of the Trump persona, which is that nobody can make the case better than Donald Trump. His attorneys can't do it. Nobody can do it.

So he felt the need to stand up and put a bow on it and be the one to sort of have the final word. I mean, it is very characteristic of Donald Trump to say, I know more than my lawyers. I can do a better job than my lawyers. I'm going to address this judge directly. And don't tell me what to do.

I'm sure his attorneys, as Paula Reid has said earlier, probably didn't think this was a great idea. But he did it anyway.

KEILAR: He has a political goal here.

BORGER: Oh, of course.

KEILAR: And, certainly, his supporters, they want to hear from him, not from his lawyers. He is correct about that. And he's not going to give up that opportunity.

Let's go back to Paula Reid, who is at the courthouse.

And, Paula, obviously, there are many cases involving Donald Trump. This one, though, in particular, really gets to the heart of who Donald Trump purports to be, which is a shrewd businessman. And fraud -- this case, he's committed fraud, the judge has said. It's really just an issue here of how extreme it is. And that's the question.

And there is also the attorney general trying to stop him from being able to do business in New York, the threat in a way to his identity, if that is the case. What do you think so far about the interaction that you're seeing with the judge about whether that is really a possibility?

REID: Well, look, this case is so personal to former President Trump, because, as you said, this speaks to the identities put forward for decades as a very successful and savvy commercial real estate mogul.

So the idea here that they're accusing him of misrepresenting his net worth and all this evidence that has been put forward about why he was doing that, all speaking to ego, as opposed to actually demonstrating this net worth, that really attacks his personal brand.

It's one of the reasons we have seen him show up so many times during the course of this case, because, as you noted, it's not just how many hundreds of millions of dollars they could have to pay out in this civil case. It's also the possibility is on the line that they may not be able to do business here in the state of New York.

Now, I want to caveat that, even if that is put forth as one of the penalties here, it would likely results in years and years of appeals, but this is incredibly personal. There's no jail time on the line here. This is not a criminal case, like the ones he is facing at a different courthouse here in Manhattan and in Florida and, of course, in Washington, D.C.

This is a civil case, but, again, it gets to the heart of who he is purported to be from his entire life.

KEILAR: Yes, a financial exile, in a way, on the line here.

Paula Reid, thank you so much. Gloria Borger and Carrie Cordero, we appreciate your perspective as well.

And still ahead: One day after his surprise visit on Capitol Hill, Hunter Biden is in California now, set to appear in federal court on charges of tax evasion. We're going to take you there live.

SANCHEZ: Plus, House Speaker Mike Johnson facing a hard right revolt over his spending deal with Senate Democrats. Are we once again barreling toward a government shutdown? We're going to speak to a House Republican who supports a shutdown unless there are major changes to border policy.

[13:15:07]

And big announcements from two of the greatest football coaches of all time, Bill Belichick parting ways with the Patriots, and Nick Saban retiring from Alabama. So what comes next for these two legends of the game?

We have that coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Here in just a few hours, Hunter Biden is expected to appear in a federal courtroom in California on tax evasion charges. The president's son is facing nine counts in what prosecutors say was a four-year scheme to avoid paying more than a million dollars in taxes.

SANCHEZ: Yesterday, Hunter Biden briefly sat in on a House committee hearing that was starting proceedings to hold him in contempt of Congress.

Today, we actually heard from first lady Jill Biden for the first time since her son's appearance yesterday.

[13:20:04]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JILL BIDEN, FIRST LADY: I think what they are doing to Hunter is cruel.

And I'm really proud of how Hunter has rebuilt his life after addiction. And I think -- I love my son. And it's had -- it's hurt my grandchildren.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's go live outside the courthouse to CNN's Evan Perez.

Evan, we don't expect some of the drama we saw yesterday here on Capitol Hill to pop up there in L.A., huh?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: No, we don't Boris. I don't think judges really will stand for the little bit of stunt that you see -- that you see playing out in that political process in Washington. What we expect is that Hunter Biden will appear here in this

courtroom. He's going to plead not guilty. He's facing those nine counts, including three felonies, for evading taxes. Prosecutors say that he made millions of dollars working with businesses in Ukraine and in China and used a lot of that money to fund an extravagant lifestyle.

Everything from exotic cars to exotic dancers, they say, is what he was spending his money on and not paying his taxes on time. Now, Hunter Biden has since repaid those back taxes. And one of the arguments he and his lawyers are making is that he wouldn't be facing these charges if it wasn't for the fact that Republicans have been putting pressure on the Justice Department to go after him.

And so, obviously, six months ago, Hunter Biden was within minutes, minutes of sealing a plea agreement that would have washed away all of these charges. He would have pleaded guilty to two misdemeanors and a diversion program for a gun that he purchased at a time that he was prohibited.

Now he's facing two sets of charges, one in Delaware for the -- for that gun, and now these nine counts for tax evasion and filing false tax returns. So we -- again, we expect him here in the next couple of hours, a lot less drama than we saw play out on Capitol Hill -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Evan, thank you so much for that report from Los Angeles.

SANCHEZ: Well, it's a new year, but some of the problems for House Republicans are largely the same, a mini-majority, looming threats of a government shutdown, plenty of infighting.

We're going to talk to a Republican lawmaker about all of this in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:27:08]

SANCHEZ: A short time ago, some hard-line House Republicans warned their new speaker they will vote to shut down the government if they don't get the changes to immigration policy that they're looking for.

Speaker Mike Johnson was dealt a blow yesterday when a band of conservatives voted down an unrelated rule that paralyzed the House. The vote was in protest of Johnson's spending agreement with Democrats that was announced earlier in the week. Keep in mind, there are just eight days left to get a plan together to avoid a partial government shutdown.

We're joined now by a House Republican who's calling for a shutdown unless there are major changes to border security and to spending.

Congressman Tim Burchett of Tennessee joins us now.

Congressman, great to see you.

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): Thanks, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Some of your colleagues met with Speaker Johnson earlier today to talk about that new spending proposal. After the meeting, some of those in the room said they thought that Johnson might back out of his deal with Chuck Schumer.

He, though, is apparently downplaying that as a possibility. What's your read on the status of things coming out of that meeting?

BURCHETT: My read is pretty much what most of America is. They understand we have got a problem at our southern border, that eight million people have come over. That's been admitted by this White House.

They have over 100,000 children that are missing. And God knows what awful life they're leading right now, the sex trade or what have you. And we're spending between $150 billion and close to $400 billion in upkeep for these folks. And this is just an ongoing thing. And we can't keep going down this route.

And I -- you either give us a border, or we're not going to give you a budget. And that needs to be an overwhelming message. And what came out of that meeting is just that. I think the speaker, he was thrown into the deep end, literally, in this thing. And he's trying to do the best he can.

But I think us conservatives, we just need to give him the support that he needs, because I don't think our country can withstand much more of this.

SANCHEZ: On the question of support for Speaker Johnson, you were one of a small group of people that voted to oust the former Speaker Kevin McCarthy over a deal that was very similar to what Johnson has struck with Schumer.

There are members of your conference that are leaving the door open to potentially revisiting that now with Speaker Johnson. What's your message to those folks?

BURCHETT: Well, it's a good message.

Again, we're $34 trillion in debt. We take in $5 trillion every year. We spend $7 trillion. I don't care what math you use. That just doesn't work. And we have got to get some control over this thing. It's out of control. We're headed towards total anarchy. We're rapidly approaching a Third World country.

SANCHEZ: But, sir, how's that going to convince some of the members in your conference, like Chip Roy of Texas, who is threatening to kick Speaker Johnson out?

BURCHETT: Well, I was one of the eight prior to it, and Chip was not.

So, yes, I don't know what's in his heart, but it's -- it's a reality.