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More Than 40 Injured In Attack On U.S. Forces In Jordan; Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA) Discusses About How U.S. Should Respond To Iran; Negotiator: Bipartisan Deal Reached; Ready For Senate Floor Soon. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 29, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

SABRINA SINGH, DEPUTY PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: These groups that continue to inflict casualties on our forces, whether it be in Jordan, Iraq or Syria.

We absolutely hold Iran responsible because we know that they fund, and train, and support and equip these militias that operate in Iraq and Syria. Fadi?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you have - thank you. So it is the position of the Department that Iran is responsible for the attack that killed three U.S. soldiers in Northeast Jordan?

SINGH: Iran bears responsibility because it funds these groups that operate in Iraq in Syria that launch attacks on our service members.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand that.

SINGH: Mm-hm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But this attack led to the deaths of three ...

SINGH: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... service members. Is Iran responsible for the death of these three service members that you just read their names and their families have been notified ...

SINGH: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... of their deaths.

SINGH: Again, Iran certainly bears a responsibility as they fund these groups that continue to use capabilities that they get from Iran and, of course, killed three of our service members.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I take just a step back.

SINGH: Sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And just looking at last week maybe from Saturday of last week up until Saturday ... SINGH: Saturday of last week, okay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... yes, just by - or Sunday maybe.

SINGH: Okay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's nine days. The U.S. launched strikes in Syria, in Iraq against Houthi positions inside Yemen with the aim of reestablishing deterrence and degrade their capabilities of whether attacking U.S. forces or shipping in the Red Sea.

Now, the last as - throughout those days what we saw is unprecedented escalation and an asset was targeted with ballistic missiles, you (inaudible) cite was targeted with a drone, more U.S. soldiers were injured. The Houthis went after British ship, after a U.S. ship. It seems to me - does the Pentagon think its approach to deterrence is firing back, is it successful? Would you say it's successful especially when three soldiers were killed?

SINGH: Well, I mean we are assessing what happened yesterday and we are trying to figure out how a one way attack drone was able to evade air defenses and was able to kill three of our service members and injury dozens more.

To your question on deterrence, I can continue to say we don't seek war. We don't seek further conflict, we don't want to see this widen out into a regional conflict. But we will continue to do whatever we need to when it comes to protecting U.S. forces and our coalition partners and innocent mariners transiting the Red Sea.

We believe that we have been effective in degrading their capabilities and disrupting their ability to launch certain attacks. But the reality is, yesterday, unfortunately they were successful and they killed three of our service members and that is an absolute tragedy.

I'm going to go to the phones and then I'll come back in the phone. Lara Seligman, Politico.

LARA SELIGMAN, POLITICO: Thanks, Sabrina. I have a couple of questions. Can you say whether there's been any decisions made to send any additional air defenses or other forces to the region to beef up some of the counter UAS capability here?

SINGH: Yes. Thanks, Lara. I just wouldn't - I'm just not going to get ahead of any decisions that are going to be made and certainly wouldn't preview the repositioning of any air defenses.

SELIGMAN: And do we have sufficient counter drone capability in the region to account for all the different basis that have come under attack recently?

SINGH: Yes. Thanks, Lara. I mean, again, we have seen repeated attacks on our U.S. service members in both Iraq and Syria and a majority of the time our air defenses have been incredibly successful and you've only seen minor damage to infrastructure and, of course, some injuries, which we all take very seriously but for the most part our air defenses have been robust and have been successful.

I'm going to take one more from the phone here. Heather, USNI.

HEATHER, USNI: Thanks so much. The Houthi leadership announced that they fired a naval missile at Lewis B. Puller in the Gulf of Aden. I was wondering if there's any confirmation from the Department of Defense on whether that happened and if there's any damage or if the Puller shot it down.

SINGH: Thanks, Heather. I don't have anything for you at this time. I'm happy to - we're happy to get back to you on that one.

I'll take a few from in the room and then, I'm sorry, we do have something coming up soon. Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's been some back and forth about whether the U.S. has troops in Yemen. Can you confirm that?

SINGH: We do not have U.S. troops in Yemen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay.

SINGH: Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much. In the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden, the U.S. carried out preemptive strikes targeting Houthi missiles before they can be launched at international shipping.

[15:05:00]

Is the U.S. going to consider launching preemptive strikes when it sees potential attacks on its bases in Iraq, Syria and now Jordan? And if not, why not?

SINGH: Well, you've seen Central Command take action, dynamic strikes within the region when we've identified - when we've been able to identify a potential setup of an attack or identified a point of origin. So, we have seen some of those dynamic strikes in the region. And I - I'm sorry, I don't have the exact dates when those happened, but they were late last year. I'm not going to get ahead of any decisions that the secretary and the president are making on what future action looks like, only to say that, of course, will respond when we do.

Yes, I'll take a few more and then got to wrap. Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mentioned the drone impacted the living quarters. Do you have any details on what kind of structure that was? Is this kind of hardened structure?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We've been listening to the Deputy Pentagon Press Secretary Sabrina Singh walking through headlines after three U.S. service members were killed after an attack in Jordan. Some of the highlights included an update on the number of those injured. We've learned it's now more than 40. Also, she walked through the investigation that Central Command is doing on exactly how this took place, talking about how a high number of troops were impacted by the attack because the attack happened early in the morning and it attacked living quarters where some of these service members were. She also was asked repeatedly about who was responsible and she said that this has the fingerprints of Kataib Hezbollah, a group that is backed by Iran, who she says the United States will hold responsible.

I think the biggest news to come out of this is that she laid out exactly who was killed, the three service members that died.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That's exactly right. We've been waiting for the identities of those service members, and we're actually going to - we have the names here. We also had missed just the very top of that briefing.

So these are the names here: Sgt. William Rivers, who is 46 years old from Carrollton, Georgia; Spc. Kennedy Sanders, 24 years old from Waycross, Georgia; and Spc. Breonna Moffett, 23 years old from Savannah, Georgia.

And all three of those soldiers with the U.S. Army, part of the 718th Engineer Company, which is part of the U.S. Army Reserve. So they were part of an activated reserve unit that was out of Fort Moore, Georgia, which is near Columbus, Georgia. And they were there serving as part of Operation Inherent Resolve. This particular place, Tower 22, has been really critical in that mission to combat ISIS. Of course, so much of that work has been done, but continues to go on in the region.

And obviously, it's a matter for the military of trying to maintain some of those results after having really put ISIS at bay, and these service members were serving in that capacity. But very sad news, as we've learned that these three: Sergeant William Rivers, Army Specialist Kennedy Sanders and Army Specialist Breonna Moffett passed away in this strike.

SANCHEZ: Yes, still a lot of questions to be answered. No doubt one of the central ones is how the United States, how the White House now plans to respond.

We're going to CNN's Oren Liebermann, who's been tracking this at the Pentagon. We also have CNN's Ben Wedeman who's in Beirut, Lebanon for us.

Oren, walk us through what stood out to you coming from the Deputy Pentagon Press Secretary.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The wording on Iran was quite specific and quite careful, it seemed to me. And you pointed this out right at the top here. Whether it was Kataib Hezbollah, one of the more powerful Iranian proxies or Iranian-backed groups in the region, they said it has the fingerprints of Kataib Hezbollah, but wouldn't go and say - Sabrina Singh, wouldn't go and say direct attribution and then Iran's role. The White House and the Defense Department have held Iran broadly responsible, but there has not yet been an indication that Iran gave the specific order or specific direction to carry out this attack. So it's more of the idea that Iran is broadly responsible, and the U.S. holds Iran broadly responsible for the actions of its proxies and its - and the militant groups that it backs.

So it provides the funding, the support, the training, some of the weapons and equipment, but whether it actually gave the specific order to attack this base in Jordan, that part remains unclear. Sabrina Singh wouldn't quite go that far in talking about this.

She was then pressed repeatedly on, is this now the regional conflict the U.S. has been trying to avoid ever since October 7th. Now - and the point here was sort of trying to draw a line here. We have seen more than 160 attacks now on U.S. forces in Iraq, Syria and now Jordan. The vast majority of these either impact areas that have no effect or are intercepted by U.S. air defenses that protect U.S. troops there, this one got through.

And even if that was the intent of the 160 or so others, none have gotten through to this point. And that was a point she tried to make there, that this isn't a regional conflict now. It is, however, an escalation here, and that sort of thinking will guide the U.S. response.

[15:10:00]

Of course, neither Sabrina Singh nor John Kirby, who's been on our air earlier, will telegraph exactly how the U.S. will respond here. That's something the administration is, A, still trying to figure out, and then, B, going to play very closely when that decision has been made.

KEILAR: And, Oren, big questions about how this had happened. Because the understanding that this particular drone, which came in and took out these living quarters, it appears, was coming in at the same time or around the same time as a U.S. drone returning to the base. So now, of course, there are questions about whether the militia was exploiting that and able to kind of get through the defenses in that regard, and also what this means more broadly for U.S. defenses at other bases as well.

LIEBERMANN: Of course, and that's one thing the administration and the Defense Department are trying to figure out. We've learned from two U.S. officials that this drone, this attack drone that struck near the living quarters and killed three soldiers and wounded so many others, came through at about the same time as a U.S. drone was returning to base, and that caused a bit of confusion and a delayed response to the attack drone that led to it being able to cause such damage.

Now, the Pentagon press secretary wouldn't say what type of drone it was, but the U.S. will have to figure out how this happened. Was it simply blind, dumb luck that this drone came at the exact same time or roughly the same time as a U.S. drone or is this something the militia groups have learned to try to do to be able to sort of sneak through as other drones return to U.S. bases throughout the Middle East. That is a key question and one that you point out has a profound effect on how the U.S. thinks about its own force protection in the region.

SANCHEZ: And, Ben, to that point, this was not the first time that these Iranian-backed groups, have attempted to carry out these kinds of attacks on U.S. forces. More than a hundred U.S. personnel and coalition personnel have now - or rather more than a hundred attacks have been launched against U.S. and coalition personnel in the region. How are you seeing all of this play out from Lebanon, where Hezbollah, for example, has been more than eager to see its role expand into a broader conflict?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It has. Lebanon, in fact, has struck 13 times, by our count, Israeli positions on the border. And, therefore, we're seeing also an uptick in their actions as well in - at the same time as we're seeing this attack in Jordan. But what we're hearing from Lebanese officials, as well as diplomats here in Beirut, that their greatest concern at the moment is the very real possibility that the - this regional war, which has really been going on, it's been a low-intensity war really since the beginning of the war in Gaza, but it's going to escalate even further.

And the fact that the United States has now lost three servicemen, more than 40 injured in this attack in Jordan, really raises the stakes dramatically and really underscores, in a sense, just how tenuous this situation is, whereby you have, basically, four flashpoints. You have the border between Lebanon and Israel. You have the American troops in eastern Syria, which have come under attack multiple times. You have the American troops in Iraq and then you have the situation in Yemen.

Three of those flashpoints the United States has already struck. And it appears that in the aftermath of this attack in Jordan, there is going to be some sort of strike by the United States. Obviously, where and what, we don't know.

Now, it was interesting, the spokesperson did say several times, we do not seek a wider conflict with Iran. And most diplomats will tell you the Iranians don't seek a wider conflict either. But this attack in Jordan, whether it was just luck on the part of the, we assume, the Iranian-backed militia group that did it or it was actually the result of improved technology. What we've seen really through, since the beginning of the war in Gaza, is that the technology of the foes of the United States has improved dramatically. And the United States advantage, technological advantage, may be not quite what they saw in the same way the Israeli technological advantage was clearly not what they thought it was on the 7th of October.

So there's a very real danger that one side or the other is going to go too far and that will bring about a reaction that could really start a cycle that could indeed lead to a massive regional war.

[15:15:03]

KEILAR: All right. Oren and Ben, thank you so much for those reports. Obviously, big concerns this afternoon.

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss now with Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts. He served in the Iraq war.

Congressman, thank you so much for being with us. This afternoon, obviously, there are a range of recommendations coming from Congress as to how the U.S. should respond to this attack, some calling for directly targeting Tehran, you have suggested those calls play into the enemy's hands. What should the United States do?

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): I mean, we clearly need to send a decisive message that this kind of behavior is unacceptable, it won't be tolerated and we're going to strike back. But starting a war would indeed play into our enemy's hands. I mean, we have had these Iranian proxies attacking U.S. troops in the Middle East for 20 years. Let's not forget this has been going on for a long time.

When I was on the ground in Iraq, Iranian-made weapons in the hands of Iranian proxies in Iraq were killing literally hundreds of Americans every single year. Deterring that is hard, but through Democratic and Republican administrations, we have known that we want to deter without starting a war.

These militant groups are trying to start a war. That's what they want. They're not attacking U.S. troops to strike a trade deal here. They want a war. We don't want to play into their aims. We want to stop a war, not start one.

SANCHEZ: I'm curious what you make of the assessment from the U.S. that Iran is not eager for a direct conflict. But you're saying that these militia groups are - it seems like a very passive aggressive policy by Iran, that they do not want to directly attack the United States, but they're happy. If these proxy groups kill Americans, how do you deal with that?

MOULTON: If there's one thing I learned over - about three years on the ground in the Middle East, over four tours in Iraq, is that the Middle East is not a black and white place. Iran is not a black and white country. It may be true that the higher echelons of Iranian leadership do not want a broader war and I've seen intelligence that supports that as well. While at the same time, some of the forces like the Quds Force that are directly supporting these militias in Iraq and around the Middle East, they do actually want a war.

There is this great divide in Iran between the hardline forces that want to attack the West and the forces that actually want to reconcile and reform that country for the better. So what we don't want to do is empower the hardliners here. We don't want to empower the militias. We want to stop the militants while actually empowering the Democratic forces throughout the Middle East, not just in Iran, but in all the other countries in question here as well.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, I want to get your response to Republicans who argue that the Biden administration has been weak on Iran, that in their eyes they have tried to broker a deal with Tehran and doing so by appeasing them, unfreezing billions of dollars worth of assets and such. What would you say to them about the proper way to conduct foreign policy with Tehran?

MOULTON: I mean, again, this is not black and white and we should be doing both things. We need to send decisive messages to Iran that this kind of militant behavior is not going to be acceptable. The Biden administration will do that. They're going to choose exactly when and how they respond. But I'm confident, just as President Biden has said, that he will respond.

But to say that we should never have any diplomacy, especially with the elements in the Middle East that are allied to our interests, that's ridiculous. And many of these Republicans served in Republican administrations, some of them before coming to Congress, that faced the exact same problem and had the exact same dual-pronged approach.

I mean, let's not forget that under President Bush, when we were in Iraq with Dick Cheney as his vice president, we were losing dozens and dozens of American servicemen to Iranian-backed attacks. But at the same time, that Republican president did not want to start a war with Iran, just like President Trump. President Trump wanted to hit back at Iran, but was very careful not to start a war.

So throughout history here, at least the last two decades, this has been a complicated problem and that's why it deserves a complex solution, a mixture of hard military messages with tactical diplomacy.

SANCHEZ: So what more needs to be done to protect U.S. service members in the region? Because what we're hearing from the White House is as of a few days before this incident, President Biden saying that a message had been sent to Iran and its proxies in the region, it doesn't seem like they're getting that message.

MOULTON: Look, I think that's a fair assessment. And I think the president would agree with that as well. He's been working to walk this line between deterrence and actually starting a war, but clearly we need to put more pressure militarily on these militant, these terrorist groups.

[15:20:05]

But there are other things that need to be done as well. I mean, in terms of protecting U.S. troops, the administration has come out and said that it looks like our air defenses were confused because a U.S. drone was coming into the base at the same time as this attack.

Regardless of whether this was a sophisticated enemy attack that did exactly that, that tried to confuse our air defenses or not, I think confused here is a polite term for mistake. We've got to stop these drones, whether they come at the same time as our drones or not. So clearly, we need to make sure that we have robust air defenses, drone defenses that our operators are trained for this kind of situation, because I think we'll find out what the mistake was made here and that's part of why three troops lost their lives.

SANCHEZ: And on that note, Congressman, I do want to leave by asking you about those three personnel, those three service members, Sgt. William Rivers, Spc. Kennedy Sanders and Spc. Breonna Moffett. As someone who served, what is your message to their families?

MOULTON: My message to their families is that there's nothing that we can do either in the future or the past to bring back your loved ones and you are bearing an inordinate cost for our security and safety. But know that your loved ones were standing out there on the front, on the front in the Middle East, because it's important to our National Security, because we don't want a broader war in the Middle East that will cost thousands and thousands of American lives. Because standing with our allies in the Middle East and all across the globe helps fundamentally protect us at home. So don't believe, don't think for a second that these deaths were in vain.

SANCHEZ: Congressman Seth Moulton, our hearts go out to their families. We appreciate your time.

MOULTON: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course. Still ahead this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, the number of migrants at the U.S.-Mexico border is surging. Lawmakers, though, say they've reached a bipartisan deal that could help. So why is former president, Trump, now trying to kill it? We'll explain in just moments.

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KEILAR: A key border deal negotiator tells CNN a bipartisan agreement has been reached and could be ready to go to the Senate floor in the coming days. President Biden is urging lawmakers to pass the bill, calling it the toughest set of reforms yet. But former president, Trump, is pressuring Republicans to block it in an effort to sink a policy win for Biden.

Right now, apprehensions at the U.S.-Mexico border are ticking up, recently topping about 4,000 migrants per day. And last year, border authorities reported a total of nearly 2.5 million encounters. That is a surge from the numbers that we saw in 2021.

Let's turn now to CNN's Melanie Zanona. She is live for us on Capitol Hill.

Melanie, tell us where things stand and the future of this agreement in this divided Congress.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, Bri. Well, the bill text still has not been released. Negotiators are hoping to unveil it sometime this week. But even without a deal in hand, we are seeing some very strong pushback from Republicans, particularly in the House. Speaker Mike Johnson already put out a letter on Friday saying the deal, at least as he understands it, is likely dead on arrival in the House. And today he put out another statement railing against one of the reported provisions in the deal.

I want to read you what he wrote on social media. He said, "Any border 'shutdown' authority that ALLOWS even one illegal crossing is a non- starter. Thousands each day is outrageous. The number must be ZERO."

Now, that is a reference to a provision in the Senate bill, which we have learned about that would automatically shut down the southern border if average daily migrant crossings reach over 5,000 during a one week period. Other provisions that we're told have been agreed to include a provision that would speed up the process for those seeking asylum at the southern border, as well as provision to grant more work permits.

So some pretty significant concessions there from Democrats. This likely is the most conservative immigration deal that has been discussed on Capitol Hill in decades and yet this deal is facing major headwinds in the GOP. And a large reason for that, Bri, is because of Donald Trump. He has been privately and publicly urging Republicans to reject this deal in a large part because he wants to campaign on this issue and he doesn't want to hand Democrats and President Biden a win.

And so what you're seeing is many Republicans eager to follow his lead and that has really left not only border security, but also aid for Israel and Ukraine hanging in the balance, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, very interesting developments there. Thank you so much, Mel, for that report.

So Donald Trump seizing on the deaths of three U.S. service members who were killed in Jordan. What he is saying about the drone attack that also injured more than 40 members of the military.

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