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Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX) is Interviewed about Mayorkas Impeachment; Sen. Tim Kaine (D-VA) is Interviewed about the Deadly Drone Strike; Trial Resumes for Michigan School Shooters Mother; Murdaugh Will Not Get New Trial. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 30, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): Letter from Speaker Johnson, which really is a deficiency in leadership, which is to say legislation unseen is dead on arrival in the House. I take issue with that. There may be disagreement on both sides of the aisle about the legislation. But we owe the American people the responsibility of at least considering it.

You know, we have not had comprehensive immigration reform since 1986. Ronald Reagan signed the last initiative of the last law. That has put us in a very difficult situation for legal immigration, meaning those who have come to this country and waiting for a status of citizenship, and those who have fled persecution and have come to this country. And so this is not the face of the American people or the Statue of Liberty. And what we do today in falsely using impeachment, which people think of as high crime and misdemeanor and treason, we set ourselves back even further from committing to real comprehensive immigration reform. And again, this is a straw man. This is make believe. This is revengeful. And you know what, it is extremely sad to abuse the resources of the American people by proceeding with this impeachment.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: I do want to ask you, because you did mention that there is a problem. There is no denying that there is chaos on the border. The numbers show the crisis at the border is worse than it's ever been during the Biden administration. Here are the numbers. One of the highest spikes of border crossings during the Trump years was in 2019, about 975,000 or so, or you're seeing in 2019, 851,000 people. But after 2020, after Joe Biden took office, those numbers have doubled every year since. And, of course, we're in just the beginning of 2024, but very, very high numbers. Do you think that the administration should shoulder some of the blame?

LEE: Well, I think they could explain the circumstances that they confronted. And that is, not the necessary resources to have enough border patrol agents or what we call Custom and Border Protection, who are the persons who process individuals, or the resources of courts and the mechanism of the asylum process. And so it has slowed down the drive of cartels to drive migrants toward the border with false information. We've never had the highest degree of misinformation and disinformation to suggest to individuals fleeing horrible abuse and persecution from their countries.

We just heard of the high rates of gang violence in Ecuador and other places. That has driven people out of fear of their lives to the border. But yet we have not been able to get Republicans to sit down and address some of the laws that need to be put in place and the resources that need to be put in place for the Biden administration's -- how should I say it, apparatus to go forward.

Secretary Mayorkas will do everything to abide by the existing laws. But the existing laws are not in place. We have not passed real immigration reform to address the question of the surge toward our southern border. And if we look at the world worldwide, over these last couple of years we've seen the same surge of migration in other parts of the world. It is a phenomenon that is happening, and each country must address it with the necessary resources.

We have that ability, but we don't have the cooperation of Republicans who have stood in the way. Every step that we have tried to move forward, they've taken ten steps backwards. And they know that they're doing it only for revenge of what legitimately happened to President Trump for interfering with the 2020 election and for the January 6, 2021, insurrection that occurred.

SIDNER: You say -

LEE: We have legitimate reasons for impeachment. Their questions -- their revenge immigration combination for impeachment it clearly has no basis in fact.

SIDNER: Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, thank you so much for coming on, for talking through what is a very, very tough issue that Congress can't seem to get through, that comprehensive immigration. There are so many things that need to be addressed. And I know you're from a state that deals with it more than most others. I appreciate you coming on.

LEE: We do. We must get to work and do a better job. Thank you.

SIDNER: All right, thank you, ma'am.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, a jury links Round-up, the popular weed killer, to cancer. How much the company will have to pay.

CNN in the trenches as Russia's army tries to break through Ukrainian defenses. We've got harrowing new video from the front lines of the war.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:39:13]

BERMAN: This morning, congressional lawmakers are putting pressure on President Biden to respond after three U.S. service members were killed in Jordan. Iranian-backed militants in Iraq have claimed responsibility for the strike, which also injured more than 40 other soldiers.

With me now is Senator Tim Kaine, a Democrat from Virginia, who serves on the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Senator Kaine, it's always great to speak to you.

I'm going to start with a question right in your wheelhouse, what authority does the president have to respond to this drone attack in Jordan without congressional approval?

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): John, a president always has the ability to act in self-defense. Doesn't have to come to Congress to ask permission for that. And that definition of self-defense is somewhat broad. And so those who have attacked our troops, if he knows who they are and believes that they're going to do it again, the president can act to stop them.

[09:40:07]

But beyond self-defense, it gets - it gets murky. There is no current congressional authorization allowing war against these Iranian-backed militia groups. There's no congressional authorization allowing war against Houthis in Yemen and in the Red Sea. And so a bipartisan group of colleagues and I wrote a letter to the president last week asking some strategic questions. Hey, what's the strategy here to deescalate? But also the legal authorities questions. And I think we're going to be talking about those a good bit this week on The Hill.

BERMAN: So, first question, what reaction, if the United States does identify the source of this drone strike, what U.S. Response would you like to see?

KAINE: Well, I think the most natural and probably the most likely response is action directly against the groups responsible for the attack. And those are likely Iranian-backed militia groups in Syria, near the Jordanian base where these service members' lives were lost. Our hearts go out to them. These were three reservists from Georgia. As you know, reservists and guards members get these assignments and they're pulled away from their jobs and pulled away from their families to go help defend our country. And we all need to keep their families in our prayers.

But the most likely response would be directly against those who engaged in this drone attack. And the U.S. normally has pretty good intelligence about where these attacks are coming from. So, the president is going to calculate it. The secretary said we will - we will make sure that there's accountability but at a time and place and manner of our choosing. You don't want to tip anybody's hand or predict what's going to happen, but I think that's the most likely response.

BERMAN: And after this initial response, which you would consider to be self-defense, you will continue your very constitutional yet somewhat quixotic battle to get congressional authorization for action or for - yes, military action in that region? KAINE: Absolutely, John. I have been consistent on this with

presidents of both parties. I don't think we should be at a war unless it is debated and voted on by Congress. And that's -- that debate is what lets the American public see what's at stake and make their own decisions about whether it's worth it or not.

I happen to believe that getting the U.S. involved in another war in the Middle East would be a very bad idea. I think if we would have learned anything from 2001 to 2021, it's that wars in the Middle East with the U.S. participation cause us a loss of blood and treasure without really gaining us anything. Not even gaining us friends. We're usually not appreciated for what we do, and we usually don't alter the equation for the good.

So, you know, I have colleagues who are calling for the U.S. to engage in military action inside Iran against the Iranian government. If they feel that, they should put that on the floor and let's have a debate and vote about it. But we shouldn't stumble or slide our way into another war in the Middle East without congressional, robust debate and vote.

BERMAN: Donald Trump says, quote, "this brazen attack on the U.S. is a horrific and tragic consequence of Joe Biden's weakness and surrender." What's your reaction to what Donald Trump said?

KAINE: Donald Trump is blaming America first. You know, blame America first. If something bad happens around the world, well, OK, it's the U.S.' fault. That's what some on the left say or what some on the right say is it's Joe Biden's fault. And I've seen other Republicans follow him like lemmings in trying to blame this tragedy on America or on Joe Biden instead of expressing sympathy for the families. Not a word of sympathy comes out of Donald Trump's mouth. I think it's behavior that's abhorrent.

BERMAN: So, today, in the House of Representatives, they're marking up the bill which could lead to the impeachment of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas. If the House does vote to impeach him, there would be a Senate trial. How will you vote in a Senate trial?

KAINE: Well, if I'm a juror, I'm going to listen to the evidence. But I'll tell you the -- what the House has put on the table is laughable. I think this is the speaker's attempt to throw a sop (ph) to a right- wing faction within his caucus. They know it's going nowhere.

You know, at the very moment that they're doing this, we're engaged in a really important bipartisan discussion about border reform. And who do the Republicans in the Senate insist be at the table to have the discussion? Secretary Ale Mayorkas, because they understand that he knows this issue backward and forward. And when he says, here's a reform that can work, they believe him.

So, at the very moment that he's doing his job and trying to help us forge a bipartisan compromise that's - that's eluded us since 1986, the House is doing this stunt. It's going nowhere and they know it.

BERMAN: Senator Tim Kaine from Virginia, great to see you. Thank you so much for coming on.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, still ahead, why Attorney General Merrick Garland warns he'll have to step away from his duties this weekend.

Also, a judge says no new trial for convicted murderer Alex Murdaugh.

[09:45:04]

His attorneys still say it was a good day for him. We'll explain why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, this morning we are learning that Attorney General Merrick Garland will step away from this duties briefly this weekend. He is scheduled to undergo back surgery and delegate his duties for about 90 minutes while he is under anesthetic. Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco will step in for him during those 90 minutes. This comes after Lloyd Austin was criticized, Lloyd Austin the defense secretary, was criticized after keeping his New Year's Day hospitalization secret, even from the White House.

A $2 billion verdict against the maker of the week killer Roundup. A 49-year-old man with cancer sued saying he got sick after using Roundup on his property for two decades. The parent company, Bayer, says it will appeal the verdict and called the settlement "unconstitutionally excessive."

The U.S. figure skating team is getting a belated gold medal from the Beijing Winter Olympics. It comes after a Russian figure skater was banned over a doping violation. No medals were awarded for the team skate at the games because the Russian skater had failed an earlier test, but it was under appeal.

[09:50:01]

Sara.

SIDNER: Yes.

All right, right now, the trial for Jennifer Crumbley, the mother of the Michigan school shooter, gets back underway this morning. During testimony on Monday, the prosecution released never before seen footage showing Jennifer and her husband James seeing their son at the police station for the very first time following the massacre.

Jennifer Crumbley faces charges of involuntary manslaughter in a first of its kind trial that could hold her accountable for her son's actions.

CNN's Jean Casarez joins me now.

This is about involuntary manslaughter, so it does have to do also with her actions, but he was the shooter in this case. What can you tell us about what we're hearing?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this video is really fascinating just to watch and look at their demeanors. So, once - once the mass shooting happened, James Crumbley gets an alert on his phone. Emergency alert. Active mass shooter. So he runs to the house because he knows he just bought his son a gun. And the gun's not there.

So, he called up the sheriff's department and he turned his son in. And then the parents were called to the sheriff's department. So we - you can hear them talking before they go into Ethan. The mother says, he's never done anything bad. The father starts talking about that mass sheet that morning with the bullets and the blood, you know, drawing. Mother stops him. She says, I think we need an attorney, because he was about to incriminate his son and -

SIDNER: Right.

CASAREZ: You know, mother was tough. You could tell that.

So then they go in to see Ethan, who is handcuffed to a chair in this room.

Watch their reactions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER CRUMBLEY, ETHAN CRUMBLEY'S MOTHER: Why?

ETHAN CRUMBLEY: I did it.

JENNIFER CRUMBLEY: Why?

JAMES CRUMBLEY, EATHAN CRUMBLEY'S FATHER: I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you.

(INAUDIBLE)

JENNIFER CRUMBLEY: He didn't even like (INAUDIBLE) his parents. (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And that was James Crumbley saying "I love you, I love you."

SIDNER: I love you, I love you.

CASAREZ: So, here's the big issue this morning. It's really hard to understand some of that, and there's more when the parents and just with investigators. And they were going to have a transcript that would go to the jury, you know, once they go into deliberations. Prosecution wants on that transcript that James was sobbing but nothing about Jennifer, right, she's on trial now.

SIDNER: Right. CASAREZ: Defense says, no, she's crying. I hear her crying. So now there's going to be no transcript for the jury. So, the jury is going to just have to listen and try to decipher what they're hearing on it.

SIDNER: Yes, I was trying to figure out who was crying, and that -- whether it was the defendant or - and then I realized, oh, they're out of that room. It was - it sounded like the mother, but that could have been James too. You don't know.

CASAREZ: James is sobbing.

SIDNER: He's sobbing. OK.

CASAREZ: And -- I've watched this numerous times.

SIDNER: Yes. Y Es.

CASAREZ: And the -- Jennifer is crying, but it's softer crying.

SIDNER: This case is unprecedented. We haven't seen parents charged in the case.

CASAREZ: With homicide, right?

SIDNER: With homicide. You're right. I mean like this involuntary manslaughter for something that their son did. We will be watching this very closely.

CASAREZ: Yes.

SIDNER: It could have an impact on cases that come forward.

CASAREZ: And prosecutors just announced they may rest by the end of the week.

SIDNER: Wow, it's going fast.

Jean Casarez, thank you so much.

CASAREZ: Thank you.

SIDNER: John.

BERMAN: All right, a South Carolina judge has ruled that convicted murderer Alex Murdaugh will not get a new trial. Murdaugh's legal team accused the court clerk of tampering with the jury in the original murder trial so she could get a book deal and media appearances. The judge said the clerk was, quote, "attracted to the call of celebrity but decided that the comments did not influence the jury.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher is in Columbia, South Carolina, with the latest on this.

Dianne.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, and it was that very high standard that the defense had to meet, that the judge decided they did not. Did the interference, if you will, from the clerk of court, Becky Hill, have any kind of impact on the final verdict? The judge determined, no, even after we did hear from some that she talked to them about the case. One juror giving conflicting statements on whether or not her final verdict was impacted. The judge had a lot of strong words for the clerk as well when she issued her final ruling.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTICE JEAN TOAL, FORMER CHIEF JUSTICE, SOUTH CAROLINA SUPREME COURT: I simply do not believe that the authority of our South Carolina Supreme Court requires a new trial, in a very lengthy trial such as this, on the strength of some fleeting and foolish comments by a publicity-influenced clerk of court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Now, look, Alex Murdaugh immediately shackled after that, taken back to prison to continue serving the back-to-back life sentences for murdering his wife and son.

[09:55:01]

His attorneys, though, say that it wasn't necessarily a bad day for them because what was said in court during that one-day hearing can be put in a judicial record. And you can expect them to include that when they revive their appeal of his conviction, they told me they think that they can win that, either the court of appeals, the South Carolina State Supreme Court or, if necessary, in federal court.

Now, look, John, as far as Becky Hill, that clerk of court is concerned, it's not over for her either. The state has two open investigations into her for allegations, of course, of the jury tampering, but also allegations that she used her elected position for personal gain.

This Murdaugh case continues to bring attention here in South Carolina and does not appear to be ending anytime soon. They say it will take about a month for them to get that appeal paperwork together.

BERMAN: I'm sure you will be there watching every step.

Dianne Gallagher, thank you very much.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, President Biden is facing pressure as he calculates how the U.S. will act next against Iran-backed rebels. What lawmakers are learning about the attack that killed three soldiers.

And, right now, House Republicans moving forward with articles of impeachment for Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas. We will have it live for you. What to watch for, next, on Capitol Hill. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)