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Netanyahu Declares Success In Israeli Hostage Operation Amid Gaza Raid; Trump's Legal Battles Intensify With Courtroom Drama In Florida And Georgia; Authorities Identify Suspect In Houston Church Shooting, Provide Update On Lakewood Incident; Trump Claims Victory As Bipartisan Border Deal Falters, Sparks Policy Debate; Legal Challenges Mount For Trump As His Legal Team Remains Active In Various Cases. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 12, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says an operation in Gaza that freed two hostages but killed dozens of Palestinians was a success. This as we're learning more about President Biden's growing frustrations in his Israeli counterpart. And right now, former president Trump is in a federal courtroom in Florida for a hearing relating to his alleged mishandling of classified documents.

ALEX MARQUARDT, HOST: Plus searching for a motive. Just minutes from now, authorities in Houston, Texas, will be giving an update on the investigation into Sunday's deadly shooting at Joel Osteen's megachurch. This comes as we're learning that the shooter used an AR- 15 rifle that had Free Palestine written on it. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

KEILAR: Here in a few minutes, President Biden will be sitting down with the King of Jordan, the first Arab head of state to visit the White House since the October 7th Hamas terror attacks on Israel. This is a meeting that is coming at a crucial moment. Negotiations for a pause in fighting between Israel and Hamas seem to be stuck. And just hours ago, Israel unleashed a wave of deadly airstrikes as part of an operation that freed two Israeli hostages in Rafah.

Senior administration officials say the White House is deeply concerned about the reported death toll. We know that President Biden was already growing more frustrated with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over how his country is processing their war. We have CNN's Jeremy Diamond who is on the ground there in Israel. Jeremy, tell us about this really complex hostage operation.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Brianna, for the better part of the last month, Israeli military and domestic intelligence services gathered the intelligence. They prepared this raid. The special forces trained for it. And then overnight, they carried out this dramatic raid which rescued these two hostages, 70-year-old Luis Har and 60- year-old, Fernando Marman. At 1.49 a.m., we're told that Israeli special forces breached a residential building in the heart of Rafah, Gaza's southernmost city. They had intelligence that these two hostages were on the second floor. They went there, they grabbed them, and then they escaped under fire, we're told. A minute after that happened, we understand that the Israeli Air Force began bombarding targets in that area to try, they say, to prevent Hamas fighters in the area from intercepting this rescue operation.

But we are also now getting a picture of the results of that bombardment. At least 94 people were killed in these overnight strikes in Rafah, and not just Hamas fighters. Women and children, clearly among the dead and the injured from these strikes. But we did see the images today as well of the reunification of these two men with their families at this hospital. An emotional moment coming 128 days after they were taken hostage from their kibbutz near the Gaza border.

KEILAR: Yeah, unbelievable that they are back now with their families. Still so many left as hostages there, though, in Gaza. And allies, Jeremy, including the U.S. and the U.K., are warning Israel against advancing into Rafah with a broad offensive. How is Israel responding to those warnings?

DIAMOND: Well, the Israeli prime minister is doubling down. I mean, you heard him yesterday on the Sunday political shows talking about the military necessity of going into Hamas' last bastion, as he described it, in order to win this war, effectively saying that those telling him not to go into Rafah are telling him to lose the war. He is, however, at least rhetorically, heeding the United States' concerns about the civilian population in Rafah. One million four hundred people, more than half of Gaza's population, now crammed into a city of normally 300,000 people.

[14:05:09]

But he's not providing any details as of yet. He says that the Israeli military is working up a plan to provide safe passage for hundreds of thousands of civilians to escape north. But there are major questions about exactly how that could be accomplished in such a short period of time, as he says that he wants to capture Rafah within the next month. And we know that further north, there is a scarcity of humanitarian aid, people living in squalid conditions. And so major questions about how to move so many people, where they will go, and what they will find when they move further north. Brianna.

KEILAR: Jeremy Diamond, live for us from Israel. Thank you for that report. Alex.

MARQUARDT: We're joined now by former U.S. Ambassador to NATO, Kurt Volker. Ambassador, thank you so much for joining us today. I do want to ask you about the former President and NATO in just a moment. But on Israel and Gaza, the Biden administration is clearly worried about what is happening in Rafah. We are reporting that President Biden has privately expressed frustration with Prime Minister Netanyahu. Do you think that there's a chance that Netanyahu in this operation pushes Biden too far and that there could be a rupture, a real rupture between the U.S. and Israeli governments? KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Well, I think it's possible. I know President Biden has tried very hard to support Israel as much as possible in pushing back against Hamas and defeating Hamas. But he is clearly under some domestic pressure to do more for the Palestinians, provide humanitarian assistance, and try to urge Israel to spend more effort taking care to avoid harming Palestinian civilians. And this could just, as you say, it could provide a bit of a rupture there. I think what has happened here, unfortunately, is Hamas has used the situation expertly, to turn public opinion against Israel.

We should have actually supported Israel swiftly and as much as possible to root out Hamas as quickly as possible. Because the longer this goes on, the more the attention is actually focused on Israeli behavior rather than the continuing Hamas behavior of being an armed group and holding hostages and so forth.

MARQUARDT: Do you think that Israel should carry out these very complex rescue operations of their hostages who they are so desperately trying to get back? Even if it means that dozens, even scores of Palestinian civilians could be killed, as we believe happened in this case?

VOLKER: Yeah, well, obviously, you want to do as much as possible to protect civilian life. But at the same time, the fact that these hostages continue to be held by Hamas is both hindering military operations, it is incredibly disruptive within Israeli society, and their lives are at risk every day. So I understand very well why Israel is engaging in these hostage rescue operations. I hope that we are doing everything that we can to help them actually get them the right intelligence if we have anything, the right techniques, equipment and so forth. Because the fact that Hamas is holding these hostages in order to try to hold off Israel and Israel's friends and allies from actually pursuing the operations against Hamas.

MARQUARDT: Excuse me, I do want to ask you about, uh, former President Trump, who you worked under as a special envoy. You were also, as I mentioned, the former ambassador to NATO. On former President Trump's recent comments, he said that during a second term that he wouldn't abide by the collective defense clause in NATO known as Article 5. He went as far as to encourage Russia to do whatever the hell they want to do to NATO countries who don't pay their fair share. Do you think this is campaign trail bluster, or is this a look into how he would run his administration and his policy vis-a-vis NATO in a second term?

VOLKER: Well, it's a very dangerous and disruptive thing to say. And if you look at the context today, Russia is committing war crimes. They are attacking Ukrainian civilians. They're abducting children. They're raping people. We shouldn't wish that on anyone, least of all our allies, who we do have a treaty obligation to help defend. So, it's a very irresponsible thing to say. What you want the leader of the alliance to say is that any attack on any NATO ally will be met with the full force of all the allies in the alliance, so that no one would be tempted to do so. We want to prevent war, and that's what NATO is all about is preventing war. So, it's a very irresponsible thing to say. Now as you indicate, he was at a campaign rally and he was bragging

about what he allegedly said in the past. We don't know whether he really said that, but this attitude that we leverage our allies by threatening them, I think is wrong. It's wrong. We should not go into the ideas that the Allies I think is very much the wrong way to go about it.

MARQUARDT: Yeah, all for one and one for all at the very core of the NATO Alliance. Ambassador Kurt Volker, thank you very much for your time today.

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VOLKER: Thank you.

MARQUARDT: Brianna.

KEILAR: We're watching several legal developments involving former President Trump with potentially major implications for the cases against him. Trump is in a federal courtroom in Florida right now. His lawyers are trying to gain access to classified evidence in the Mar-a- Lago documents case. And the clock is ticking on Trump's legal team to file an appeal to the Supreme Court over a ruling on his claims of presidential immunity. That deadline is today.

All of that as a hearing gets underway in Fulton County, Georgia. The DA there, Fannie Willis, fighting subpoenas as a Trump co-defendant attempts to get her disqualified from the election racketeering case. CNN's Kristen Holmes is near Mar-a-Lago in West Palm Beach, Florida. Kristen, a crucial week here in court for the former president. He's trying to get her out of the election. He's treated his past court appearances like campaign stops. Is that what he's doing here?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, actually, it's quite notable. He is not doing that. He has not scheduled any remarks. He has not tried to work the cameras in any way, called into any media outlets. And this is, again, notable given the fact that he has routinely used all of these various courtroom stops as campaign events. I will remind you, the last time he was in federal court in Washington, D.C., again, same setting, no cameras, no media availability. His team reminded him over and over again, you're not going to be seen. He said it was fine. And then the day of, they all scrambled to get him in front of a camera because that is exactly what he wants to do. He wants to send his message.

Now, I will note, in this case in particular, he actually is very interested in what they are discussing today because what it comes down to is access to evidence. Remember, the core of this case is classified documents. This hearing today is a conversation between Donald Trump, his lawyers, and a judge over what he has access to. They want access to all of the classified evidence, evidence that the prosecution, as well as some intelligence agencies, don't want them to have. So, this is something he clearly has his own vested interest in. He wants to see what evidence he himself will have access to. And as you mentioned, this is just one of many legal cases that are in the spotlight today, that other big one being the Supreme Court. We are expecting that they will appeal, that they will go to the Supreme Court and file a motion to essentially block the ruling from the D.C. Appeals Court that said that Donald Trump is not immune from persecution from any alleged crimes he committed while president. This is something that they have told us they are likely to do. Again, another part of this is that tactic we have seen from Trump time and time again. Once they push that forward, this delay, if it does go into motion, would then stop this case from going straight to trial, something we know Trump's team does not want to do.

KEILAR: Yeah, we know that. Kristen, thank you so much live for us from West Palm Beach, Florida. And let's turn now to defense attorney and lecturer at Columbia Law School, Caroline Polisi. All right, Caroline, let's start in Florida. Trump's team arguing they should be able to see these documents. They're classified. Do they have a valid argument here?

CAROLINE POLISI, WHITE COLLAR DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They absolutely do, Brianna. In normal cases, a criminal defendant is obviously entitled to see all of the discovery in a case. You know, of all of the criminal cases here that former president, Trump is involved with, this case is actually the sort of most simple on the facts and the law. However, this issue, because they are dealing with highly classified information in these documents, this has really slowed down the prosecution of this case. Many of these documents can only be viewed if the person has a security clearance.

We do know apparently that former president Trump has viewed some of these documents in Florida in a skiff. But for example, Walt Nada does not have a security clearance and would not be able to view these types of documents. So, there are sort of competing interests coming into play here, and it's a big mess.

KEILAR: And we expect Judge Cannon to decide if the trial can move forward as scheduled at a hearing on March 1st. How could today's decision affect the timeline, especially if Trump's goal is obviously for delays? You heard Kristen talking about there.

POLISI: Yeah, Judge Cannon. It does not seem to be in a hurry, as it were, to try this case. She notably was reversed two times on appeal by the 11th Circuit. She, by all accounts, seems willing to sort of delay the trial with respect to these classified documents issues. I do think we will see it slipping. Not like, for example, Tanya Chutkan, if you contrast in that case, the election subversion case, she really wants to get that case moving. We'll see which goes first.

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KEILAR: We're also waiting for that expected Trump appeal to the Supreme Court of last week's ruling in the federal election subversion case. Do you think the Supreme Court will take that appeal up once it's submitted? POLISI: Yeah, you know, I personally don't. I don't think it's a

decision that the court needs to take in that the reason the Supreme Court tends to take cases would be, for example, like the Colorado ballot case, where there are different opinions in different parts of the country. You can't have sort of duelling states in one state where he's on the ballot, one state where he isn't. In this case, if the Supreme Court denies cert, basically the appeals court ruling would stand. President Trump would be denied that sort of sweeping executive criminal immunity that he was arguing for. And the case could proceed.

However, the issue here, obviously, is the timing. The way the appeals court rule did sort of force Trump's hand to speedily file this appeal and made it so that he didn't file for an appeal en banc. He instead is going straight to the Supreme Court. And then the other issue is whether or not the Supreme Court, if they do take it, whether or not they would stay the case, meaning basically put a hold on the case moving forward, because they could potentially take it, but have the case move forward as well.

KEILAR: Yeah. Such a good point. Many possibilities here. Caroline Polisi, thanks for being with us. We do appreciate it. And still ahead, authorities in Houston have identified the suspect in the Lakewood church shooting. A news briefing expected just minutes from now. We're going to bring it to you live. Plus, former President Trump continuing to take credit for helping kill a bipartisan border deal. Soon we'll be speaking with the president of the National Border Patrol Council who backed the deal.

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MARQUARDT: At any moment now, we are expecting an update from police on that deadly shooting at Pastor Joel Osteen's mega church in Houston, Texas. Two people, including a young child were injured on Sunday afternoon. Officials say the shooter was killed after pointing her weapon at responding officers. CNN's Ed Lavandera is on the scene in Houston. So, Ed what more are we learning?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that this investigation has remained rather active since things erupted here just before two o'clock here Sunday afternoon before the Spanish language service was expected to begin here at Lakewood Church here in Houston. We know that investigators have spent hours at the home of the shooter, who has now been identified as 36-year-old Genesse Ivonne Moreno. Investigators have been at her home in the city of Conroe, which is about 40 miles north of here. According to a search warrant affidavit that we've obtained this morning, it offers some new details as to exactly what unfolded here at this church.

And as we've reported, Moreno showed up here, according to police, with a five-year-old child and then started firing. In this affidavit, it also points out that Moreno had a yellow cord that is consistent with a detonation device for an explosive device, as well as other substances that are connected to explosive devices as well. However, investigators have said they have not found any evidence of bombs or explosive devices here at the church or in the car that she drove here. But they continue to search her home for any of that kind of material. Investigators also say in those documents that Moreno at one point pointed the weapon that she brought, which has been just told by us by a law enforcement source, was an AR-15 style weapon, and that pointed it at the two off-duty officers that responded to the gunfire. And they shot her in self-defense, according to this court document.

As you mentioned, Alex, off the top, we are expecting to hear from Houston Police investigators with the latest details on this investigation, and that is expected to happen here about 1:30 Central Time, 2:30 Eastern. Alex.

MARQUARDT: Hopefully a few more answers in that about what happened yesterday at the church. Ed Lavandera in Houston. Thanks very much. Brianna.

KEILAR: Former President Trump continuing to take credit for helping kill a bipartisan border deal that took months to negotiate. Trump urged Republicans to vote against the bill before details were even announced. And this weekend he touted the bill's demise on the campaign trail.

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DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: This week, we also had another massive victory that every conservative should celebrate. We crushed crooked Joe Biden's disastrous open borders bill. Mike Johnson did a very good job, and the whole group did a great job in Congress. We crushed it.

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KEILAR: Trump is promising that if he is elected president, he will shut down the southern border and carry out the largest campaign in the history of the United States. We're joined now by Brandon Judd. He's been the president of the National Border Patrol Council, which endorsed this bipartisan border bill that was negotiated with the White House, Democrats, Republicans, and independents as well. We're hearing, Brandon, from congressional Republicans who, they're not often at odds, right, with your union, but they are when it comes to this border bill. I want to listen to Senator Marco Rubio this weekend. He was on State of the Union with Jake Tapper.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: They say this is better than nothing. It should become law. Are you saying that the Border Patrol Union is wrong?

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Yes. If that's what they still believe, they're wrong. It's not better than nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What do you -- what's your reaction to that?

BRANDON JUDD, PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: I wish he would explain why it's not better than nothing. I can go through point by point and explain exactly why it's much better than what our current law is. I mean, it raises the bar for credible fear. It allows us to do things that we can't do. It allows us to detain individuals, I'm sorry, single adults until deportation proceedings. It speeds up everything. It takes the judiciary out of this process. And we know that the courts are completely and totally backed up. There's an awful lot of things that this allows us to do. Now, the main argument that you're going to get is it's going to say that it codifies 5,000 apprehensions per day, but they don't discuss what our current laws do. So again, I'm comparing this bill to our current laws.

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KEILAR: So he does say what he says, and he credits that credible fear, the increased threshold for it, which would mean you have less people who actually qualify for asylum. But Rubio's saying it creates this asylum core. Yes, you're completely right. So many Republicans are citing that 5,000 number. Are Republicans who oppose the bill, are they being honest about what it does and how they're describing these provisions?

JUDD: I think the vast majority of the Republicans that I've spoken with just haven't had enough time to dig into it, look at it, evaluate the bill. I had my attorneys immediately the moment that bill came out. And so, there's an issue right there that is, let's give it a little bit more time. Let's look at this. But it got brought to the floor within a couple of days of it being released. And so, I think that the more they dig into it, I think that the more people actually look at this, the more people are going to recognize there was an awful lot of good to this bill. There were, there was some bad. There's absolutely no doubt about that, which is why we said from the get-go, this isn't the perfect bill, but there's an awful lot of good in there as well.

KEIAR: But it seems like it's, you know, this effort is dead, that this chance may not come up again. And I've heard from so many Republicans who have said, we're never going to get this kind of deal again, that for many of them, they see this as a once in a lifetime opportunity at this kind of reform.

JUDD: No, I don't think it's dead at all. In fact, I think it's going to come up again. Again, because the Democrats know that they have to solve this issue. They know that this is a very bad issue going to them. But I do think that this would have been a huge win for the Republicans. If they would have supported this, they actually would have been able to say, we forced the Democrats to do this. We forced the Biden administration to give us what we wanted.

Again, when you look at this, I know for a fact that this would have driven down the flow. And if we would have gotten specific provisions that were in this bill, if we would have gotten that, it would have driven down the flow. And we would be able to better secure the border today if we have this.

KEILAR: You have been in D.C. for well over a week.

JUDD: I have.

KEILAR: You've been up on Capitol Hill trying to convince members of Congress, as you see this bill, which certainly you understand how these things will work, these provisions here. How's it going?

JUDD: So I'm not trying to convince anybody. What I'm doing is -- I'm here letting them know this is the reason that we support this. Here's the provisions in the bill that are very good. And the feedback's been very good. Again, you know, people understand that there's a lot of good in this bill. It was simply a matter of time. Do we have the time to dig into this? Do we have the time to look at all of the specific provisions and how that's going to impact border security? And the more and more that they look into it, the more they're recognizing there was a lot of good in this bill.

KEILAR: Former President Trump mentioned you over the weekend. Did you notice that?

JUDD: I did.

KEILAR: Okay. So, he was telling a story about how previously you'd given him your bill. So, here's your top 10 wishes for border policy. And I'm curious when it comes to this issue of the credible fear threshold, tougher threshold for claiming asylum, where does that fall on your top 10 wish list?

JUDD: It's probably number two. You know, number one has to be catch and release. You have to stop catch and release. If we don't stop that magnet, the people are going to continue to come. But then we have to stop the gaming of the loopholes, which is then credible fear. So, there's a number of things that he recognizes. Yeah. there's a number of things that he did very, very well in office. And again, that's the reason why I continue to support him, is because his policies were fantastic for the American people as it pertained to border security. I would argue that his policies were very good for the American people on nearly everything that he did, but border security was fantastic.

KEILAR: Have you talked to him about this one?

JUDD: I have not. I haven't had the opportunity to speak with him. I know that he has his reasons for not supporting this bill. I have my reasons for supporting it. We can have policy discussions. We can have policy disagreements. And that's one of the things that I really like about him. You can disagree with him, and he'll continue to work with you.

KEILAR: Brandon, will you endorse him?

JUDD: Oh, absolutely. Look, I haven't officially said we endorse him, but it's obvious that we endorse him. Yes, we endorse President Trump. Yes.

KEILAR: All right. Brandon Judd, thank you so much for being with us. We do appreciate it.

JUDD: Thank you. KEILAR: So moments ago here, you're looking at images of former President Trump. He was leaving a courthouse in Florida. This has to do with the Mar-a-Lago documents case. And also, we're standing by for a live update out of Houston from officials on the shooting at Lakewood Church. We're going to bring that to you live when it happens.

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