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Biden On Any Rejection Of Ukraine Aid Bill: History Will Not Forget; Displaced Palestinians Flee Rafah Ahead Of Expected Israeli Assault; Voting Underway In NY To Replace Disgraced Ex-GOP Rep. Santos; Rep. Brandon Williams (R-NY) Discusses About Special Election In New York And Border Issue. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired February 13, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:01:12]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Hello. It's the top of the hour. I'm Brianna Keilar with Jim Sciutto here in Washington. And moments ago, President Biden urged House Republicans to pass a $95 billion foreign aid bill that the Senate just passed before dawn today. More than half of that funding to go toward Ukraine. The President warning of severe consequences for Republican members of Congress who reject the bill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: He said it's a test for the nation. He added that the lawmakers would be giving Vladimir Putin exactly what he wants. President Biden then condemned recent comments from his predecessor, Donald Trump, who said he would encourage Russia to invade countries, NATO allies who do not meet their NATO guidance for how much to spend on their GDP on defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No other president in our history has ever bowed down to a Russian dictator. Let me say this as clearly as I can. I never will. For God's sake it's dumb. It's shameful. It's dangerous. It's un-American. When America gives its word, it means something. When we make a commitment we keep it and NATO is a sacred commitment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: We have a team of correspondents to talk about this. Let's begin with MJ Lee at the White House.

MJ he certainly came out forcefully here and he had words for House Republicans in effect saying pass this. I just wonder are there any negotiations underway still between the White House and House Republicans or is this really down to some sort of way to get around the speaker?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean, this was clearly the President squarely aiming the speech at Republicans as it's really unclear what the path forward is and what plan B might be. He said in his speech that he really wanted to just lay out the stakes of the National Security implications if this package isn't taken up by the House using some familiar language. He said that House Republicans essentially have a choice to make, are you defending freedoms or not; Are you defending Ukraine or not; are you enabling Vladimir Putin even more or not.

And he did say, the President, that he has no question in his mind that if this package that was passed by the Senate overnight were to be taken up by the House that it would pass in the House. But that currently according to his view and his vantage point this is Speaker Johnson catering to the most extreme small group of Republicans in his own caucus. And the President did try in his speech to say that there would be a political price to pay for any Republicans that didn't support this package. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: For Republicans in Congress who think they can oppose funding for Ukraine and not be held accountable. History is watching. History is watching. History is watching. Failure to support Ukraine this critical moment will never be forgotten.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: And it wasn't surprising that Donald Trump ended up being a major feature of this speech. But he did use some of the strongest language that we have heard thus far. He said that he was basically disgusted by Trump's recent comments saying that Russia would be encouraged to mess with and go into any other country that he thinks hasn't paid their dues to NATO. This of course has drawn a lot of ire from a lot from a lot of world leaders. And he also had some other choice words like dumb, un-American, shameful and dangerous.

What's not clear though as I said before, though, is what the plan is for Democrats and the President to move forward if in fact this bill doesn't get taken up in the House and he didn't have any comments on that.

KEILAR: I mean Alex, you hear the Speaker saying, yes, there's this Israel, Ukraine bill.

[15:05:05]

It needs some border security in there. We just spoke with one rank and file Republican who said Biden already has all the border security laws he needs. I mean what it all boils down to is they don't really seem serious about border security or providing aid for Ukraine or Israel. Is the world ready for potential failure here?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Obviously, it's something that they don't want to have to contend with. I mean if you break out these different conflicts, Israel for example, they could probably go on for much longer than, say, Ukraine could. Israel has a sizable military industrial complex that can support its ongoing war in Gaza. But there certainly they have run low on various weapons.

Ukraine really here is the one of major concern. We're about to hit the two-year mark of Russia's invasion in Ukraine. The administration has completely run out of money from the two main buckets that it uses to help support Ukraine. And we hear from soldiers on the front lines that they are running out of bullets. They're running out of artillery. They're running out of the long range rockets they need to disrupt Russian logistical lines and their bases at long distance.

So Ukraine really is having a scary moment here and the United States provides far more assistance to both Israel and to Ukraine than any other country around the world. So this was a message not just to Republicans and his fellow Democrats here in this country, but to the world in that this is the message that so much - so many of the European and the NATO allies want to hear.

There - this is a moment in which they are - some are freaking out, especially when we hear what Trump had to say yesterday, encouraging Russia to invaded NATO allies. I spoke with one senior European official who called it very unfortunate and that it erodes the trust that they have in the United States. So, yes, very forceful comments that will certainly be heard around the world.

SCIUTTO: So Kristen, has said why he opposed the border-Ukraine agreement, this compromise partly saying, as he often does, he'd get a better deal, but also saying, in effect, he wants to run on this, this year. In terms of opposing additional funding for Ukraine against the ongoing invasion from Russia, does - has Trump articulated a position as to why he opposes that aid?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is part of a larger campaign initiative that Donald Trump has. His entire campaign and this is what appeals to his base and many Republicans, is about "America first," in this America first policy, and that's what Donald Trump calls it, they don't give aid to other countries. They keep aid within the United States. This is not about helping foreign governments, it is about helping people within the United States.

Now, obviously, there are different factions of money and things are not as cut and dry as the way that Donald Trump often puts them out there. But the way that he sells his message is that if we don't give money to Ukraine, that money can be used elsewhere, that could be used on the border. And this is a message that really resonates with a lot of Americans.

You have to remember, we're talking about two big issues that Donald Trump wants to run on in 2024, run against Biden on. One of them is the economy. He knows that people across the country are still suffering from what they feel is inflation. He wants to play that up, essentially saying, oh, if we keep the money for ourselves, that will help our economy.

These things, again, are not all interrelated. Donald Trump is conflating several of these various issues, money that would go to foreign aid, money that would go back into the United States' economy. But it does work for him when he's talking to his supporters and his voters.

KEILAR: Because back in December, with the defense authorization bill, the Senate put in a sort of a protection, right, that there's a two- thirds threshold that it would require of the Senate in order to pull out of NATO. But looking at what some European diplomats have said, at least privately, they're a little worried that Trump would still prevail here.

MARQUARDT: They are. I mean, I have spoken to a number of officials who have seen this as a continuation of Trump's bluster, that this is campaign trail politics. And they have heard this message before, that countries need to put up that 2 percent. And there are other - there are European countries that are encouraging those, other countries that haven't done that to raise the amount of money that they are contributing to their national defense.

So on the one hand, it is certainly a wake-up call, and one that has made them nervous. On the other, it is something that they have - that they have heard before. But I do think, to some extent, this is going to certainly kick into high gear any preparations that the Europeans and others may be making for a potential Trump second term.

[15:10:00]

And to defend themselves, not as individual countries, but in the alliance as well, because they are seeing that they might not be able to be as reliant on the United States, perhaps, as they once were.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly. Alex, thank you so much. Thank you to Kristen and MJ as well.

And we are now in a critical 24-hour window for hostage negotiations in the Middle East, leaders trying to hash out a deal to free captives held by Hamas in exchange for a ceasefire in Gaza. Egypt's president announcing that CIA Director Bill Burns is meeting up with top officials today from Israel, Qatar and Egypt. But those talks remain difficult, that is the word, difficult, that one official is using when we hear in reporting that we're getting.

So after Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, ordered his military to come up with a plan for evacuating Gaza's displaced civilians from Rafah in the south, we're talking about a staggering 1.3 million people, adding to the complex negotiations a rescue operation that saved two Israeli hostages, but reportedly killed more than 100 people, according to the Palestinian Red Crescent Society.

Let's talk about all of this with former commanding general for the U.S. Army in Europe. We have retired Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges.

General, thanks for being with us.

Barak Ravid, a contributor here to CNN and Axios reporter, is saying that Netanyahu told President Biden this weekend that he does indeed want a hostage deal, despite what some are reporting in the Israeli press. We see the CIA director in Cairo and we're hearing these things about a deal, difficult but also constructive. Do you think there's any chance of a deal for hostages?

LT. GEN. BEN HODGES (RET.), FORMER COMMANDER OF U.S. ARMY FORCE EUROPE: Well, certainly, I hope so. I mean, you think of the families and the people who are worried about these hostages, what they're going through, the huge risks that are there. And then, of course, the special operators who go in to rescue some of them.

So I hope that the negotiators are successful. But for me, the biggest problem is the Netanyahu government. I think that their unwillingness to work in good faith towards a regional, broader two-state solution is what makes this so extremely difficult.

KEILAR: Netanyahu's preparing for this Rafah operation. Do you think that he would really want to relent on that for a deal with hostages? Do you see any circumstance where the Rafah operation doesn't happen to make way for that?

HODGES: That would be significant if he was backing off of what he had said already was essential, that you could not imagine leaving hundreds of Hamas fighters down there in Rafah in return to get a - the hostages released. Maybe that does work.

I just think the idea of trying to get the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that are in Rafah to move them somewhere else, that somehow you can filter out a few hundred Hamas fighters from that, doesn't seem like a reasonable task. And for sure, there's going to be enormous casualties. And I think that this whole thing just erodes the support, makes it very hard for President Biden, frankly, to continue to support them.

KEILAR: An IDF spokesperson told CNN today that the IDF has not yet delivered a plan to Netanyahu to evacuate civilians from Rafah. Is it really possible to do that? We're talking about 1.3 million people. This is the enclave where everyone has crowded as they have evacuated from other parts of Gaza. I mean, where can they even go that is big enough and safe enough and has any resources for them?

HODGES: Yes, this would be an enormous logistics challenge for the Israeli government, which would have to take this on to set up huge tent cities with all the things necessary for humans to live there safely and to get what they need.

In Iraq and in Afghanistan, we attempted to isolate or separate terrorist - Taliban's population. So you end up setting barriers and then you kind of push people through there. You do biometric data collection. This number, though, that over a million people, that will be a heck of a task. And of course, the IDF soldiers that are there trying to do it will be targets, very vulnerable, open targets as this is happening.

[15:15:00]

So I think what I worry about is not only the innocent people that are having to move again, but the number of people that are probably going to be killed as Hamas - obviously, they're not going to go along with this.

KEILAR: Yes, very good point. Gen. Ben Hodges, thank you so much for being with us. HODGES: Thanks for the privilege.

KEILAR: Still to come, New York voters heading to the polls for a special election to fill the seat of disgraced Republican former Congressman George Santos.

Plus, we are getting new details about the shooter who opened fire at Joel Osteen's megachurch in Houston.

And right now, flight attendants picketing across major airports. They're demanding better pay, better working conditions.

We'll have those stories and much more coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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[15:20:01]

KEILAR: Today, voters in New York finally getting to turn the page on the George Santos saga. Residents in New York's 3rd Congressional District are voting right now in a special election to fill the seat that was vacated when indicted Republican George Santos was expelled from the House.

We have CNN's Shimon Prokupecz at a polling station.

Shimon, some heavy snow seemed to dampen turnout this morning. Tell us where things stand now.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's certainly picked up since I've been here for the past hour or so. The snow has stopped and you could start seeing more people starting to stream in. A lot of them telling me that it's because of the snow. They waited for the snow to stop.

And sort of - I just want to kind of go over the process here. This is where folks will come in. They'll check in. And then, Brianna, they go over to the desks that are just over my shoulder here and they're told where to go to vote. There are different election districts and then they're basically casting their ballot behind these blue things. And then they have to do, take one more step. You can see this woman here. They then put it into this machine and that's how it gets counted.

For certain - most of the voters top of mind here are two things, immigration and abortion. And we've been spending the afternoon talking to some of those voters. Listen to what they say about what affected their decision today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: When you came here today, what were some of the issues that you're concerned about that sort of ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I guess the border.

PROKUPECZ: The border. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, mm-hm. And maybe not spending - keeping some of that money in our country too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I advocate pro-abortion, so I think that that was important to come out and vote about that today.

PROKUPECZ: So - and do you want to tell us who you voted for?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I voted for Suozzi.

PROKUPECZ: For Suozzi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't like the way a certain person ran a campaign, okay? I thought ...

PROKUPECZ: You want to tell us who that is?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, Tom Suozzi.

PROKUPECZ: Okay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was a sleazy campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: And so obviously some strong words there from that gentleman there, but seriously, like most of the things that people here are talking about are abortion and immigration. About 80,000 voters had already cast their ballots in early voting. We're up to about, I would say, over 20,000 that so far that have walked through the doors of different polling sites across Long Island to vote today here, right now, we stand at about 300, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right. Shimon Prokupecz, thank you so much for that report from Long Island.

SCIUTTO: We're joined now by Republican congressman, Brandon Williams, of the state of New York as well.

Congressman, thank you so much for taking the time.

WILLIAMS: You're welcome. Glad to be here.

SCIUTTO: So, this district, of course, a swing district like your own, Pilip initially refused to tell voters that she voted for then- President Trump in the 2020 election. I wonder, in districts like this voting today, in yours, is Trump a liability or an asset for candidates like yourself?

REP. BRANDON WILLIAMS (R-NY): Well, I think the most important thing is where are people voting on the current administration is really the key issue. And where are people on Joe Biden, since he's in the White House and we're all in New York feeling the effects of his election and his presidency. So, I think that's what's on voters' minds right now. When you look at New York 3, it runs right into the five boroughs. And the closer you are to the cities that are, frankly, struggling with out-of-control crime and out-of-control immigration and the crisis in New York City, they really want a firewall against those policies, because they're literally at the door. And so, that's what Mazi stands for, and that's what she's fighting for, for New York 3. And that's true all the way upstate, even into my district.

SCIUTTO: I want to talk about another issue, because the President spoke a short time ago regarding the military assistance bill for Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan, currently passed by the Senate heading to the House. He said to House Republicans addressing folks like yourself, do you want to stand up for freedom or stand with terrorism and tyranny. As you know, Russia invaded Ukraine nearly two years ago. It's a sovereign nation. It elects its own leaders. It's a friend of the U.S., Russia has killed thousands of civilians. Why should the U.S. stop supporting Ukraine now at what is the toughest moment in the war?

WILLIAMS: Well, I stood up for freedom. I was a nuclear submarine officer for the Navy, and my mission in the 90s was to deter Russia and to deter the threats against America. So believe me, I know what it means to stand up for freedom, because I've done it myself.

In terms of supporting Ukraine, we need to have military support, continue our military aid to Ukraine.

[15:25:00]

But the way that this is getting packaged is completely disingenuous and really has more to say about presidential politics and the dysfunction of the Senate than it does about the priorities of American voters. And so ...

SCIUTTO: How so though because (inaudible) ...

WILLIAMS: ... I'm really disappointed.

SCIUTTO: Sure. First of all, thank you for your service. I've been on nuclear subs before. How - as you know, your colleagues demanded that the aid be packaged with a border security deal. That deal may not have everything that the House wants, but it certainly raises the standard for asylum seekers. It put billions of dollars more into border security. It also is trying to shorten the time that those cases are heard. Why isn't it better to have increased security at the border rather than nothing?

WILLIAMS: Well, that's a false choice, because Joe Biden shredded the Remain in Mexico policy his first week in office. He did it very - with great flamboyance. And he could reinstate that today simply with a pen.

So the false choice of, hey, look at this disaster ...

SCIUTTO: That's not entirely true, as you know, many ...

WILLIAMS: That is true. SCIUTTO: ... many of the moves ...

WILLIAMS: That's absolutely true.

SCIUTTO: ... well, many of the moves you've talked about that President Trump attempted were challenged in courts. You had a Democratic president here who was willing to get more ...

WILLIAMS: Wow, Remain in Mexico was not struck down by the court. That's just simply not true.

SCIUTTO: I'm talking about executive privilege and powers that the House is saying the President could exercise. But as you know, this is a president who is actually making concessions that previous Democratic presidents didn't make. I just wonder, why is it safer for your constituents to have no increased security at the border as opposed to that negotiated by your Senate Republican colleagues?

WILLIAMS: Well, I'm glad to hear you say that Joe Biden has provided no security at the border, along with Secretary Mayorkas. I think that's a bold admission by CNN.

SCIUTTO: That's not exactly what I said. I did not say it.

WILLIAMS: That is exactly what you said ...

SCIUTTO: I said compared to ...

WILLIAMS: ... that that was the choice.

SCIUTTO: ... no, I said, compared to no deal ...

WILLIAMS: No security at the border.

SCIUTTO: ... you had a tougher deal.

WILLIAMS: You said no security at the border.

SCIUTTO: No additional security, let's talk as people who respect each other. I respect your service. I'm asking you why no deal is better for your constituents for the rest of the year as opposed to a deal that significantly tightened up restrictions at the border?

WILLIAMS: Well, because five - permitting in the law, in the code, 5,000 per day on average over a period of time to enter the country is ...

SCIUTTO: As you know that's not true. That's not allowing 5,000.

WILLIAMS: It's - it is true, it's a disaster.

SCIUTTO: It was - and it was not allowing them in.

WILLIAMS: And 1,000 under ...

SCIUTTO: It was saying at 5,000 encounters, you don't entertain anymore encounters at the border.

WILLIAMS: ... 1,000 - no, it's - I'm sorry, is that respecting each other? Is that what you're getting at here as respecting each other?

SCIUTTO: Well, I will challenge you when you say something that's not true.

WILLIAMS: I'm a member of Congress, you're cutting me off.

SCIUTTO: Only when you say something not true.

WILLIAMS: It absolutely is true and - oh, I see. And you're the arbiter of truth, I realize that CNN has a great track record on all of that, so thank you.

SCIUTTO: Sen. James Lankford, a Republican Senator said that the 5,000 per day talking point was false. So, I'll quote him if you won't take my word for it, but ...

WILLIAMS: Well, I think the way that I couched it is 5,000 per day on average over some period of time when they would put a halt to it and then allow that accumulated number to be processed. Under the Obama administration, 1,000 a day was a crisis. And so now somewhere in the vicinity of 5,000 a day is somehow okay? That is not a fair choice.

SCIUTTO: Not as negotiated in the Senate ...

WILLIAMS: A secure border is okay.

SCIUTTO: ... (inaudible) the simple question I have for you is. Is it better for the country and your constituents to leave the status quo for the rest of the year, abandon a bipartisan deal or accept the bipartisan deal to improve security at the border as your Republican Senate colleagues said, it would do it?

WILLIAMS: That's good. Again, a false choice. The best thing for the country is for ...

SCIUTTO: It's actually - it was a vote ...

WILLIAMS: ... that Secretary ...

SCIUTTO: ... I mean, it's not a false choice, it's a vote.

WILLIAMS: ... the Secretary Mayorkas to enforce the law, which he has decided not to do and for Joe Biden to reverse his decisions that he made the first week in office. This crisis has happened under his watch. You can blame no one but the Biden administration. Any attempts to do that is completely absurd and I think that's really what's in the best interest for the American people.

SCIUTTO: Well, some of your Republican colleagues on the Senate side have done exactly that.

Well, Congressman Brandon Williams, you're always welcome back for a discussion. WILLIAMS: All right.

SCIUTTO: Thanks so much for taking the time today.

WILLIAMS: You bet, take care.

SCIUTTO: And this just in to CNN, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin is expected to be released from the hospital today. This after being treated for a bladder issue that required his hospitalization a number of days ago. We're going to have an update. Do stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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