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Israel-Hamas Hostage Negotiations at Impasse; Russian Warship Disabled; Interview With Former ICE Acting Director John Sandweg; House Republicans Grapple With Shrinking Majority. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 14, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:42]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: New border deal fallout. ICE has drafted plans to release thousands of migrants as a way to close its budget gap. What we're learning about the proposal.

Plus: claiming victory. Ukraine says it has destroyed a Russian warship in the Black Sea, yet another blow to Putin's navy. See the new video as the conflict between Ukraine and Russia intensifies.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And as the Kansas City Chiefs celebrate their Super Bowl win, one of the team's star players is opening up about an intense moment he had with his head coach on the sideline. Hear what Travis Kelce is saying about his outburst, as we follow these major developing stories, live from K.C., the championship parade under way, as we get to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: The very narrow Republican majority in the House has just gotten even narrower.

Just hours after House Republicans' second try at impeaching Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas succeeded by a single vote, Democrats gained a seat in the House, flipping the vacancy left by expelled Republican George Santos.

With urgent issues like immigration and foreign military aid hanging in the balance, House Speaker Mike Johnson is insisting the Republican loss changes nothing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Let me be clear here again this morning. The Republican-led House will not be jammed or forced into passing a foreign aid bill that was opposed by most Republican senators and does nothing to secure our own border.

We have to actually solve the problems and not just take political posturing, as has happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: We have seen in chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju on the Hill for us. So, Manu, what else are House Republicans saying about the loss and

their options with this historically slim majority?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a lot of finger-pointing happening this morning, and many members giving a different range of reasons, some saying it was just a unique situation, a special election in New York with two different candidates, one Democrat much more experienced and the like.

Others saying that there's a problem with some of their own tactics, one of them which kicking out George Santos, expelling him altogether. A number of Republicans said that was simply the wrong move. Some of them also were concerned about the speaker's handling of the issue of immigration, those talks that produced a deal in the Senate.

The speaker effectively killed that and gave the Democrat in that New York special something to campaign on. Some Democrats -- Republicans believe that was the wrong move, all as they question each other on how to move forward ahead of November.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MAX MILLER (R-OH): Absolutely, she should have embraced Trump. The guy is our nominee, maybe not officially, but officially to me and the majority of Americans within this country. I think she could have done a better job on that front.

REP. MARC MOLINARO (R-NY): We ought to be negotiating between the two houses. The president ought to exert some leadership between the two bodies and we ought to get to a solution. Too many people around here want to put off victory and instead achieve defeat, and that's not something the American people expect.

REP. RALPH NORMAN (R-SC): I think we should have let the people of New York speak on Santos. So I thought that was wrong. But it played out. People spoke and he was elected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, I asked the speaker himself about whether he did in fact mishandle the issue of immigration and gave Democrats an issue to campaign on after he made clear that he would not move forward with that Senate immigration deal.

He said that it was not a problem at all and he said that that was not the reason why Democrats won in that race, contending that he had handled this appropriately and they wanted much more aggressive border security measures.

But also, Brianna, he all -- made clear that the House would not move forward with the Senate-passed $95 billion aid plan to Ukraine, to Israel and Taiwan, saying his chamber would not be jammed by the Senate. And that is going to be a point of tension among the GOP here in the weeks ahead -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly is. Manu Raju on the Hill for us, thank you for that -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: The bipartisan Senate border bill that Republicans spiked last week would have provided ICE with billions in much-needed funding. Without that money incoming, the agency has now drafted contingency plans in the face of a dire budget deficit, to the tune of some $700 million.

[13:05:00]

CNN has learned that the plan would require cuts to detention capacity and therefore imply the release of thousands of migrants currently in their custody.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has that story, also with us, former ICE acting Director John Sandweg.

Priscilla, first to you. Tell us about these drafted plans from ICE.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, ultimately, what we're seeing here is that not giving the Department of Homeland Security money has consequences.

So, in this case, Immigration and Customs Enforcement is staring down the $700 million deficit. Some of their priciest items are detention facilities and deportation flights. The latter, they don't want to cut because that's part of their consequence mechanism so that migrants don't cross the border.

But the former is going to be slashed under these contingency plans, which means that thousands of migrants could be released into the U.S. Now, we should note here that ICE detains a range of migrants. Some of them have criminal records. Some of them don't. Some of them are slated for removal from the United States.

But all of this speaks to what Homeland Security officials have been warning about for months. They're overwhelmed by the number of people at the border. They can't -- they're not prepared for this volume of people. And now they're definitely not prepared if they don't get the money that they have asked for by Congress.

And so this congressional action is actually having dire consequences for the Department of Homeland Security and the border. Now, a statement from a spokesperson said the following: "Without adequate funding for CBP, ICE and USCIS, the department will have to reprogram or pull resources from other efforts."

They have done this before. They pull from Coast Guard, TSA. They try to shore up funds. But they don't know if they can -- they're going to have enough to do it this time around. And that is raising alarm bells, even from the White House and the president, who has blamed Republicans for not giving them -- him the money he needs to secure the border the way Republicans are asking for.

SANCHEZ: Yes, it'll be tough to find $700 million worth of cuts that you can offset. John, to you. This plan, again, is a draft at this point. What would

be the most significant consequences, to you, if this is followed through on by ICE? And how long could it take before it's implemented?

JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ACTING ICE DIRECTOR: Well, Boris, I mean, look, the problem here is this. You just can't have your cake and eat it too.

So we're at a time where the House Republicans are impeaching Secretary Mayorkas, saying, you need to enforce the law. They're not giving the resources necessary to do so. So I think the most dire consequence is, quite frankly, one would be concerns that if the funding crisis gets so bad that we're forced -- ICE is forced to decide whether to release individuals who might pose a threat to public safety.

Obviously, I will tell you, having been involved in situations like this, ICE will prioritize that population first, but that becomes a critical concern. The next issue, though, is this. Where do you pull the money from across the department?

And what I will tell you what concerns me the most is, you start end up weakening other critical public safety and national security programs by diverting funds that Congress originally appropriated for things like human trafficking investigations, counterterrorism operations by TSA, counternarcotics operations by the Coast Guard.

You pull the money from those agencies to pay for the detention beds just because of the political heat that's on the detention issue. Congress needs to step up and appropriate some money, or else there are going to be some very difficult choices for the department.

SANCHEZ: Priscilla, to a point that John made, Republicans have repeatedly called on President Biden to enforce the laws that are in place, but Congress holds the purse strings.

It's not like you can just conjure money for the agency. If he were to implement say an emergency action, declare an emergency the way that Donald Trump did, that would get bogged down in the courts, right?

ALVAREZ: Well, we have seen that play out. The courts have come in when funds are moved from other departments, like the Department of Defense, which you're referring to, and said, you can't do that.

Of course, former President Donald Trump did that for the border wall, but all the same, the point remains that Congress is the one tasked with giving money to the Department of Homeland Security and also giving additional powers to the executive if they so choose. That's what was part of those border negotiations that were hammered out in the Senate.

But House Republicans have scoffed at that. They say none of it is enough. And so that puts the administration in this very precarious position where they're having to navigate a situation on the border with very little funds and resources that really right now is at a lower number. They're looking at 4,000 crossings a day. In December we were talking

about 11,000. So, for now, maybe we don't see it as obvious as it was a month ago, but that's not to say that doesn't change in the next few months.

SANCHEZ: Yes, migration patterns historically have shown that in the spring it's a time of massive migration.

John, to you. House Republicans, as you pointed out, repeatedly have said that, if President Biden just enforced the current laws, we wouldn't have the issues that we're seeing at the border and in other places. Of course, federal and state agencies are overwhelmed. As Priscilla's pointed out, they are vastly underfunded.

Do you think that this is an enforcement problem, a problem with policy, or does it simply point to congressional inaction?

SANDWEG: You know, Boris, look, this is a failing of multiple Congresses and to a certain extent multiple administrations.

[13:10:01]

At its heart, though, it's a resource issue. The border has changed. The threat we face at the border has shifted in the last 10 years, to where lots of stress has been put on the asylum system. We have never funded that element of the system to handle it. We have never given the resources to Border Patrol and ICE to handle the volume of individuals we are seeing.

So, at the heart of it, it is a resource issue. Now, of course, the Senate bill did anticipate streamlining some processes that would reduce the number of resources that were required to secure the border while also providing the funding. Unfortunately, that -- of course, it does not appear that it's going to become law.

But as I said at the outset, the House Republicans can't say to the administration, hey, you need to detain everybody who crosses that border without providing the funding necessary to pay the jails and the private detention centers that actually do the detention.

You really just can't hold the administration accountable without giving them the funds necessary to enforce the laws that we'd like to see it done.

SANCHEZ: John Sandweg, Priscilla Alvarez, thank you both so much. Appreciate it -- Brianna.

SANDWEG: Thank you.

KEILAR: ... to enter its third year.

And, today Ukraine says it destroyed this Russian warship, the Caesar Kunikov, releasing video from the vantage of a Magura drone that helped carry out the attack from the water. You see a bright circle of light and then you see a fireball on the water's surface there. Ukraine says its forces have now disabled one-third of Russia's Black

Sea fleet, including the Kunikov. The Kremlin is not commenting on today's incident, however, and CNN cannot verify Ukraine's claim.

We do have CNN chief national security correspondent Alex Marquardt to talk with us a little bit more about this.

Of course, Ukrainian forces have not been faring so well when it comes to the battleground. Things have been stalled for months, but then you look at something like this, quite a success they're seeing with these sea drones.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: You're right. They haven't been doing all that well in the southern and eastern fronts, but when it comes to Crimea and the Black Sea, Brianna, they have actually done a pretty good job at effectively neutralizing Russia's formidable Black Sea fleet, forcing the Russian ships to stay farther away from Ukraine's coastline, if they leave their ports at all.

Because of attacks like this one, we have seen Russian ships forced to stay in their ports. We have seen these Ukrainian sea drones, as they're called, attack the Black Sea, home of Sevastopol and Crimea, attack their flagship ship inside that port.

Ukraine, despite the threat from these Russian ships, has managed to continue exporting grain from its southern ports through the Black Sea. So, the drones, like the Magura that we have seen, that attacked the Caesar Kunikov, have been extremely effective.

Now Ukraine is claiming that a third of Russia's ships have been disabled, that the Kunikov would be the 25th Russian ship to be essentially taken out of service. I have seen these drones up close. I was in Ukraine last summer when these Ukrainian sea drones attacked the Kerch Bridge, which is that long bridge that connects Russia with Crimea.

And I spent...

KEILAR: And you see it here. It's small.

MARQUARDT: It's small. It's probably about 9, 10 feet long. It's like a jet ski, a stealthy jet ski that is unmanned, of course.

It can go 500 miles, or 800 kilometers. So you can reach Crimea from a port like Odesa, which is where Russia suspects these are being put in the water. They can go 50 miles an hour. They can carry payloads of 600 pounds of explosives.

So, while there is a bit of stagnation that front, on the southern and eastern fronts, these sea drones are giving the Russians a very hard time and to great effect in the Red Sea.

KEILAR: Yes, those big warships, I mean, they just look so impotent up against a handful of these. Something is going to get through. It's very clear. MARQUARDT: And they do hunt in packs, because some are taken out, but

some do get through like that one.

KEILAR: Yes, it's really amazing.

Alex, thank you so much for that report.

Coming up: hostage negotiations now at an impasse, as the Israeli prime minister's office calls Hamas' latest proposal delusional. Why mediators say they are still encouraged, though.

Plus, three D.C. police officers were shot this morning while serving an arrest warrant for animal cruelty. We will have the latest on their condition and this investigation that is ongoing here.

And, later, a rare case of the bubonic plague. Yes, you heard me correctly, just diagnosed in Oregon. What doctors are saying about the risk to the community.

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[13:18:41]

KEILAR: Families of Israeli hostages are slamming Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, calling his decision to stay away from negotiations a death sentence for their loved ones.

That is after talks in Cairo hit an impasse, Netanyahu saying they can only continue when Hamas -- quote -- "changes its position." Now the families are taking matters into their own hands. They're filing a war crimes complaint against Hamas at the International Criminal Court earlier today and demanding the world take action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The people of the Western world, wake up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We cannot normalize hunger, fear, loneliness, and sexual abuse. This is the daily reality of the hostages who are held captive by Hamas. The world needs to open its eyes, to look us in the eyes, and begin acknowledging what we have went through.

What would you do if Hamas terrorists enter your homes, rape your woman, burn your babies, murdered and kidnapped your parents, brothers, sisters, and children? Bring them home now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Joining us now is Dan O'Shea. He's a former Navy SEAL commander and coordinator for the Hostage Working Group at the U.S. Embassy in Iraq.

[13:20:01]

And, Dan, yesterday U.S. officials said talks were making progress, but you heard what Netanyahu is saying here. U.S. officials saying one of the main sticking points is the release of Palestinian prisoners. Israel saying Hamas has to change its position.

How do you see things right now?

DANIEL O'SHEA, FORMER NAVY SEAL COMMANDER: Well, this is terrible news for these families, who are obviously desperate for their hostages and loved ones that are still being held in Gaza.

It just goes to two sides are completely on opposite ends. From Netanyahu's perspective, making a deal with the devil and releasing more prisoners, potential former terrorists who are in Israeli jails for a reason is that it would just bring another October 7 in the future, which is why he's taking such a hard line.

But that doesn't give any solace to the current families in Israel that are obviously at their -- the end of the rope for many of these families now four-plus-months into this conflict.

KEILAR: And with each day, with each week that passes and with Israel planning an offensive on Rafah, where we know that two hostages were just rescued from, what are the developing risks to the remaining hostages in Gaza?

O'SHEA: Well, the reality is, Gaza -- almost all of Gaza has been subdued, so we can presume that, if the hostages are held, they're held -- the remaining hostages are still in Rafah or in the area.

So, with airstrikes, with IDF forces going in, it makes it very challenging. Hostage rescue is always the last resort. Generally speaking, you want to have a negotiated settlement and get the hostages out through backdoor negotiations.

But, in this case, their lives are -- it's only on the attempt of an Israeli special operations force to go in and find these hostages. And that has proven to be very challenging. Five-plus months almost into this conflict, we have had only two to three successful hostage rescue missions, which goes to the level how challenging it is to pull off a hostage rescue.

So, that's why IDF going in to finish what they have done through rest of Gaza in Rafah, it doesn't portend for safety for the remaining hostages. Their lives will certainly be at risk, because we know Hamas uses not only their own civilians, but are surely using these hostages as human shields.

KEILAR: In the interim, is there anything more that can be done to ensure the safety of these hostages, to ensure their survival while they're in captivity?

O'SHEA: Well, if negotiations have ended, which it sounds like they have again -- and we have had multiple start and stops on these negotiations going back to the beginning.

The first cease-fire, I thought, set a blueprint for success for future hostage release, but that just hasn't proven over the last two months since the first hostage release. So, right now, the only option is probably for a hostage rescue force to go in and find these hostages in the tunneling systems.

But, again, these are very challenging. Trying to rescue people in the middle of a conflict zone and the middle of a firefight is very challenging and very risky, not only to the hostage rescue force, but to the hostages themselves.

KEILAR: Yes, I mean, this last rescue, as we're aware, they were not in the tunnels, right, which speaks to why it may have been possible to get to them.

You hear Netanyahu. He's continuing to lose domestic support. Internationally, he's losing support. We're seeing this growing pressure on him in the last few days, especially the German foreign minister saying that she's gravely concerned about a military operation in Rafah, French President Emmanuel Macron telling Netanyahu on the phone that France is firmly opposed.

There's a Dutch court prohibiting the Netherlands from exporting fighter jet parts to Israel because of how they are being used and concerns that international law is being broken.

At a certain point, does all of that force him to make a deal, or can he withstand that?

O'SHEA: Well, I mean, look at the last five months. Netanyahu has been undeterred. The hard-liners in his administration have stated the goal. They are going to wipe out Hamas completely to prevent another October 7.

And those two goals, with the return of all hostages, they don't go side to side. They're not in alignment. That is the challenge. To date, Netanyahu has had tremendous pressure on him almost from day one, and especially from the U.S. government. But they're seemingly landing on deaf ears.

Netanyahu is fixed in his position. And until there's a leadership change in Israel, you can't expect a different strategy, because the IDF is going forward undeterred at this point, despite tremendous backlash, which in large part why all these hostages were taken the first place is because Hamas knew -- I do not think Hamas predicted the level of what Netanyahu's response was going to be.

[13:25:04]

But they held on to these hostages for a reason. So that's why they will be held to the bitter end, as their last remaining card that they can play in the deck of hands that they have today.

KEILAR: Dan, it is always helpful to get your insight on this. Thank you so much, Dan O'Shea.

O'SHEA: My pleasure.

KEILAR: Coming up: Will special counsel Robert Hur testify about his report on President Biden's handling of classified documents before he was president? Why a top lawmaker says it's definitely going to happen. We will have

that next.

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