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Judge Orders Trump to Pay Nearly $355 Million in Civil Fraud Trial; Interview with Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL), Member of Oversight and Government Reform Committee that Heard Michael Cohen Testify Trump Inflated His Assets; NBA All-Star Weekend Kicks Off Tonight in Indianapolis. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired February 16, 2024 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR, "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS": Says that Trump even testified. He does not believe that Trump Organization need to make any changes based on the facts that came out during the trial.

I think that graph really just sums up this entire thing, that there was this refusal to acknowledge that the numbers were wrong, that the facts were wrong. Instead, it was a lot of finger pointing at other people. Trump's son saying that they didn't have eyes, they weren't responsible on these documents that went to get these loans that they used for these businesses.

And basically, it's the judge in the court here saying, why we are seeing this large of a number, why we are seeing these repercussions. It's because they say that they didn't admit the error of their ways, and they believe they would continue doing so unless there were these repercussions.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yes, very fascinating as a clear explanation there of why there is so much hand-holding and also such a large judgment here against Trump and the others mentioned in this.

Kaitlan, if you can stand by for us, we are going to get in a quick break as we continue to digest, because there are many interesting things in this document. We had known that Trump obviously had fraudulently inflated his financial statements for about a decade. We knew that.

Now we have learned the price that he is paying for that, and it is big. A judge ordering Trump to pay nearly $355 million in this civil fraud trial and putting in place a whole lot of hand-holding on the Trump Organization going forward here in the coming years. We'll be right back with more here on CNN.

[15:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: We're joined now by Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi of Illinois. He's a member of the Oversight and Intelligence Committees. And worth noting, Congressman, of course, it was Oversight testimony -- Oversight Committee testimony of Michael Cohen, former fixer of the former president. You were among those who questioned him back in 2019 where he testified that Trump had inflated his assets.

It was really the origin story of what is culminating today with a judge ordering Trump to pay nearly $355 million in this civil fraud trial. What's your reaction to this order?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): I think it's appropriate. It's a natural and logical extension of what happened back in February 2019. And that day is etched in my memory.

Michael Cohen came before our committee and told us point blank that Donald Trump routinely inflated his assets for purposes of loans. In that case, I think he talked about a loan that Donald Trump was trying to get to buy the Buffalo Bills.

And he talked about how Donald Trump would also inflate his net worth to get onto the Forbes wealthiest people list and then deflate his assets for purposes of real estate taxes.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Congressman, I'm curious to get your reaction to the statement put out by Trump's attorneys saying that this verdict is a manifest injustice, arguing that it's a politically fueled witch hunt designed to take down Donald Trump. They say they are counting on the appellate division to overturn what they see as an egregious verdict. What do you make of those statements from the former president's legal team?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: It looks like a copy and paste in reaction to every single judgment any court has handed down against Donald Trump. They are correct that this will obviously go to an appellate court. But the amount of evidence supporting kind of the misstatements with regard to his financial records is pretty overwhelming. So it'll be very interesting to see how a court of appeals would find in favor of Trump.

KEILAR: Politically, I wonder if you think this changes anything because so little -- certainly it's not going to change anything with his base. But I wonder if you think that this changes anything broadly in the contours of this race where he is the front runner and could very likely be facing Joe Biden in the race for the presidency.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I'm not sure it might. I think it might affect the way that Donald Trump conducts himself, knowing that, you know, he has this judgment hanging over his head. Knowing that, you know, it kind of punctures a little bit of his own aura of his kind of the persona of being a successful business person.

But I mean, at the end of the day, I'm not sure how it will affect him politically. It will definitely affect him financially if it's upheld on appeal.

SANCHEZ: Inversely, Congressman, if you have a chunk of the American populace that sees this decision the way that Trump and his legal team do as a political hit job, doesn't that concern you that a large portion of the country distrusts the justice system?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: It would concern me, but I think that I'm more concerned about, you know, how independent voters view this than necessarily the base of the Republican Party or Donald Trump's own supporters.

[15:40:00]

I think what we see is that, you know, folks who are independents and so forth, they just don't want -- they don't want somebody who is necessarily embroiled in this much litigation and these repeated, repeated financial scandals.

All that being said, we as Democrats have to up our own game as we go into the elections, and we can't just rely on these scandals playing out in courtrooms as a path to victory.

KEILAR: Congressman, thank you so much. We appreciate your time today. Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you so much.

KEILAR: And we're back now with Doug Heye, who's here in studio with us. I'm interested in what you think as a longtime observer now of Donald Trump, maybe not a fan, but an observer. The congressman there thinking that this could affect how Donald Trump is going to conduct himself.

If, you know, you have someone where this mask is kind of dropped now on, he was a successful businessman, cultivated that image, and now that's kind of been yanked down. Do you think that we're going to see anything different or no?

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Donald Trump can be a disciplined messenger when he chooses to be. So if we look at the Jean Carroll court case, once that decision was made, he's put out two statements about the decision. He did not criticize her in those statements. Very clearly, he wanted to avoid doing that to, you know, not draw any more ire from the judge or any more penalties potentially. So he can do that. He does have that capability. He usually chooses not to.

And yes, we know sort of the Mad Libs word soup that comes from Donald Trump on any of these statements. We all could have written this. AI certainly could have written it. But there's a difference.

We know Donald Trump has an ability to control news cycles anytime he wants to. So we're not talking about Navalny right now. We're not following Joe Biden's visit to East Palestine.

This is all about Donald Trump. The difference being that this is really bad news for him. It's not just something that can be lumped into, I think, to anybody credibly viewing this, you know, two-tiered system of justice.

And just one last thing on this. The Republican primary was over the minute most of Donald Trump's opponents raised their hand and said, if Donald Trump is convicted, I'd still support him. That was game over. And Trump knew that. So this is bad news for Donald Trump. It's bad news for messaging to independent voters, certainly.

But the primary, regardless of what Nikki Haley says on this, which will probably be strong, it doesn't change what's happened in the primary, because all of his opponents, say basically Chris Christie and Asa Hutchinson, said long ago, all of this is fine.

SANCHEZ: Doug, great to get your perspective as we take a look at what Judge Arthur Engoron has ordered for Donald Trump. Close to $355 million in disgorgement penalties is what this will cost the former president.

Of course, he still has an appeals process to go through. We'll talk about that when we come back after a quick break.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We've been following the breaking news into CNN this afternoon. A major decision by Judge Arthur Engoron in New York in Donald Trump's civil fraud trial.

The former president ordered to pay upwards of $350 million in that case and in disgorgement penalties. The judge essentially finding that Donald Trump was liable for fraud and installing effectively a babysitter to oversee the financial dealings of his company.

We have CNN's Paula Reid to walk us through the details. You've been looking at a very long filing by Judge Engoron. What stands out to you most, Paula?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: All right, Boris, you laid out the financial hit that the former president and his organization is taking. But let's look at some of the other penalties here. Starting with the former president.

The judge here barring Trump from serving as an officer or director of a New York corporation for three years. He's also barred from applying for loans from banks that are registered in New York for three years.

But I want to note the judge did not dissolve Trump's business certificates for the Trump Organization. The so-called corporate death penalty is something that the attorney general had sought. But clearly, the judge did not agree.

I want to note that that is something that is rarely handed down in the state of New York. And when it has been, usually there is a clear victim. And one line of the Trump defense here was that there was no obvious victim.

They argued that these businesses got their money. They continue doing business and that there was again, this is a victimless crime, even though they might argue that it wasn't a crime. Now, let's go on. When it comes to monitoring, you talked about the so-called babysitter. The official independent monitor has been in place since 2022 for the Trump Organization, making sure that they are in compliance with business regulations and laws that will continue, according to this order, for another three years.

Now, the judge also saying that the company needs to pay for another person, an independent director of compliance, again, to help make sure that that company is in compliance with rules and laws. And it appears that would extend even beyond the life of the monitor.

Now, what makes this case so personal. It does, of course, strike at the heart of who Trump reports to be a successful New York businessman. It's also his family business.

And three of his adult children testified in this case.

And there are penalties for his two adult sons, too. The judge found Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump liable for a host of civil fraud in New York, including issuing false financial statements, falsifying business records and conspiracy. Now, they're each ordered to pay $4 million from their personal profits for the fraud. And they are also barred as serving as an officer or director of any New York corporation for two years.

And it was interesting. The judge really took note of the lack of remorse or contrition from the Trump Organization. Saying, quote, their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological.

So it does appear that the approach, the conduct of the former president, at least two of his children, the combative nature of the way they opted to proceed here did not pay off when it came to this ruling. But as we know, the Trump Organization does intend to appeal this.

KEILAR: Yes, saying that lack of remorse is why, in a sense, the babysitting certainly has to be in effect. And perhaps that is also why we're seeing such a large judgment here. Paula, thank you so much for that.

We've also, I should say, learned that the former president is going to be speaking tomorrow afternoon at SpeakerCon in Philadelphia.

Sorry, sorry, Sneaker Con. I knew that. But he will be a speaker at Sneaker Con. And then he's going to a Michigan rally. So a couple opportunities tomorrow. No doubt he's going to be addressing this.

We are going to have much more ahead here on CNN after a judge has ordered former President Trump to pay nearly $355 million in this civil fraud trial.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: So, NBA All-Star Weekend kicks off tonight in Indianapolis. KEILAR: That's right, and our Andy Scholes is there covering all the

action. So Andy, what are the must-see events this year?

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Well, I tell you what guys, the weekend really getting started here today at NBA Crossover. There's thousands of NBA fans here, and it's like a dream for a basketball fan. You can do anything you want. Shoot, dunk, play all kinds of games. This place is just a blast.

And when you think about, you know, Indiana basketball, especially when it comes to the NBA, you know, one name certainly comes to mind, and that's Reggie Miller.

And I got the chance to catch up with him earlier today, and I asked him how special is it for him to be back here in Indianapolis calling the All-Star game for TNT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REGGIE MILLER, FIVE-TIME NBA ALL-STAR: I spent 18 years in blue and gold. So if there is one place that I know that knows how to host a huge event like an All-Star game, it's Indianapolis.

So I'm excited to be back to see my family and friends. But the best players in the world get a chance to showcase what I feel is my adopted home.

SCHOLES: We had battled the sexes between Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs in the 70s on the tennis court.

MILLER: Yes.

SCHOLES: Now we've got it in the three-point contest this weekend here in Indianapolis. Steph Curry versus Sabrina Ionescu. Who do you got winning this?

MILLER: I think it's a fabulous matchup. And Sabrina is arguably the best shooter the WNBA has ever seen. But she's going against the greatest shooter our game has ever seen. So I love you, Sabrina. I hope you do win. I really do hope you do win.

But Steph's on a roll right now. I'm going with Curry.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHOLES (on camera): Yes, and that Steph versus Sabrina contest is going to be taking place on this first of its kind LED basketball court.

That's where the three-point contest, the dunk contest, Steph versus Sabrina is going to take place, guys. So that's going to look really cool tomorrow night on TNT. Looking forward to it.

SANCHEZ: That court looks sick. Andy Scholes, thanks so much for the update.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts after a short break. Thanks for joining us this afternoon.