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NTSB: Toxic Burn In East Palestine, Ohio Wasn't Necessary; Arizona Prosecutors Issue Grand Jury Subpoenas As Probe Intensifies; Hopes Dim For Gaza Ceasefire Deal By Ramadan. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired March 07, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:33:49]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The head of the NTSB now says that officials in Ohio made the wrong call when they chose to conduct a controlled burn in the minutes after the Norfolk Southern train derailment last year.

In testimony on Capitol Hill, Jennifer Homendy -- she says that local and state officials on the ground -- they did not have enough information to make the right call that very dangerous day. That decision and that controlled burn sent more than a million pounds of hazardous chemicals into the -- into the air, the water, and the soil in East Palestine.

You remember these images that we looked at.

CNN's Polo Sandoval -- he's got more on this. He's joining us now. He's -- this was really interesting to hear from Homendy and what the NTSB has found in their investigation.

What is the big takeaway, and what does this mean for East Palestine now?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As you mentioned, Kate, it is extraordinary. It's all very troubling and it really echoes what the NTSB's own experts had said just last summer, calling into question local officials' decision to proceed with this so-called vent and burn of the cars that were carrying some of those toxic chemicals.

Remember, it was about three days after that derailment a year ago last month that decision was made and there was that concern that if that vinyl chloride was not essentially drained and then burned off, then they could experience a catastrophic explosion. They proceeded.

[07:35:04]

And, as you point out, we all remember those ominous plumes of smoke over East Palestine.

And then yesterday, the NTSB chair now saying the last, really, year of review has revealed that there was no scientific basis for making that decision and that, in fact, it was the wrong way of proceeding with the situation. Saying that things were, in fact, cooling down. But also, as you're about to hear, directly from the chair herself, that it was not made clear to those in control of the situation -- at least trying to assess the situation -- that the company who owned those chemicals was on the ground and they were telling the train company that the chemicals were actually cooling down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER HOMENDY, CHAIR, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: But there was another option -- let it cool down. It was cooling down.

Oxyvinyls was on scene providing information to Norfolk Southern's contractor who was in the room when the decision made with -- was made and when advice was given to the governor of Ohio, to the incident commander. They were not given full information because no one was told Oxyvinyls was on scene. They were left out of the room. The incident commander didn't even know they existed. Neither did the governor. So they were provided incomplete information to make a decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: Just the weight of that statement alone here, Kate.

And Norfolk Southern -- again, the owner of that train, responding to yesterday's testimony. I'll read you a portion of that statement.

The company writing, "The final decision to conduct a controlled release was made by the incident commander with input from multiple stakeholders, including Norfolk Southern and local, state, and federal authorities." The company also went on to write, "The successful controlled release prevented potentially catastrophic uncontrolled explosion that could have caused significant damage for the community."

But remember, this community -- anxiety still looms large on them as they are still worried about their drinking water even though officials are trying to reassure them that it is safe to drink.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. I mean, we can see the images behind you of what that looked like --

SANDOVAL: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: -- in the days and --

SANDOVAL: It's incredible.

BOLDUAN: -- and weeks when it happened. I mean, that was a terrifying mess.

SANDOVAL: Right.

BOLDUAN: Thanks for the update, Polo.

SANDOVAL: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, what Democrats want to see. Fight harder and show more passion. It's what they want to see from President Biden tonight in his State of the Union address. His primetime address is expected to tout his economic accomplishments and highlight his plans to cut health care costs and secure the border. But Biden's allies hope his feisty attitude is what shines through this time.

CNN's Isaac Dovere is joining us now from Washington. You know, when you look at this -- you spoke to a number of Democrats who had a lot to say about how they want President Biden to be tonight. What did they tell you?

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah. Like, you hear words like pride and passion, enthusiasm. That's what they want to see from the president. This is a question not just of his age and showing that he's up to the job and ready for the campaign ad, but that he has the enthusiasm for going up against Trump.

Governor Tim Walz, governor of Minnesota, saying to me a lot, you need to hear it from the candidate himself. People wonder is he tough enough to do this. And he -- Walz says Biden is and can show that but he needs to start doing it.

TEXT: "A lot of times you need to hear it from the candidate. Joe Biden's a nice guy. People get that. One of the things people wonder, 'Is he tough enough to take these things on?'" Governor Tim Walz (D- MN).

DOVERE: You have, Sara, all those reports always of the president cursing behind closed doors about Donald Trump or Benjamin Netanyahu, or saying things at fundraisers. And people say they need to see more of that if they're going to get the president to where he needs to be in this campaign year.

SIDNER: Isaac Dovere, thank you so much for that reporting.

And, of course, that's going to happen in a few hours. We will all be watching that State of the Union address -- Kate.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's John this time.

SIDNER: Oh, John -- be ready.

BERMAN: What goes around comes around because I think I called you Kate six times yesterday --

SIDNER: Payback.

BERMAN: -- when I was in Denver. All right.

With us now, former Biden White House communications director and CNN political commentator, Kate Bedingfield; and former press adviser to then-House Speaker John Boehner, Maura Gillespie.

So, Isaac reporting there that Democrats want to see an energized President Biden. Well, it just so happens that the White House chief of staff is out doing interviews in advance of the State of the Union, saying things like you're going to see an energized president.

Jeffrey Zients telling Politico, "You're going to see" -- he says literally -- "You're going to see a very energized president. This is a big moment. And the president rises to those big moments."

It packs a little subtlety wouldn't you say?

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, it's true, though, he does. I mean, I'm somebody -- I'm somebody who worked for him for a very long time. These big moments where he knows -- he kind of feels that he has to really kind of step up and land it, he does.

And he also really -- he loves this speech. He loves Congress, remember? This is somebody --

BERMAN: Um-hum.

BEDINGFIELD: -- who served in Congress for 36 years. He likes being on Capitol Hill. He likes being among members of Congress.

And so, he knows this is a big night. I think you will see a lot of energy from him if you --

BERMAN: What does that mean? And is there any risk in setting expectations too high? And I say this to some -- you know, when you give speeches the worst thing is if someone introduces you as someone who's always funny and is sure to entertain. I mean, doesn't that set the bill too high?

[07:40:02]

BEDINGFIELD: Well, there's always a risk of high expectations, of course, but I think expectations were always going to be there for this moment. We just had Super Tuesday -- sort of the official launch of the general election campaign.

You know, the State of the Union remains one of the few moments the president has in this day and age in an incredibly fractured media environment where he really commands the full attention of the country. So look, there are always going to be high expectations. It's the State of the Union.

But remember last year. I mean, remember last year. Last year's State of the Union was probably one of Joe Biden's best moments. He had that great spontaneous back-and-forth --

BERMAN: Um-hum.

BEDINGFIELD: -- with the Republicans where he baited them on Social Security and Medicare. So this is an arena he's very comfortable in. He knows what he wants

to say tonight and I think he'll give a strong performance.

BERMAN: Oh, I remember last year -- I do. And there were some moments last year where the crowd -- specifically, the Republicans -- they got a little bit rambunctious -- a little rowdy. Let's play a little bit of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But it's being proposed by individuals. I'm not -- I'm politely not naming them but is being proposed by some of you.

LAWMAKERS: (Yelling).

BIDEN: Look -- folks,

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're a liar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, Maura, you worked for a Republican House Speaker --

MAURA GILLESPIE, FOUNDER AND PRINCIPAL, BLUESTACK STRATEGIES, FORMER PRESS ADVISER TO THEN-HOUSE SPEAKER JOHN BOEHNER: Um-hum.

BERMAN: -- in advance of a State of the Union address.

I mean, Mike Johnson apparently has told Republicans he wants to see decorum. How easy is it?

GILLESPIE: It's the goal is to have decorum there, so I'm glad that he's setting that objective for members. Whether they follow him or not, I don't know.

When I worked for John Boehner our goal at the State of the Union was to remind him don't make any news. Just don't make any news. Try and keep a neutral expression on your face and the attention isn't about -- we don't want the attention to go to him. That's the goal there.

So as far as controlling members of Congress, it's a little tougher. It's a bigger challenge. You've seen that in years past really, probably, since Obama's first term. We saw, kind of, things ratchet up, unfortunately.

But the institution of Congress -- it really does need to get back to having decorum reminding people why people have love for institutions. Like you said, Joe Biden loves Congress. I love the institution of Congress. I loved working on the Hill. But it has devolved and I really wish we could get back to having respect. Being -- disagree without being disagreeable.

BERMAN: If there is that outburst who do you think it benefits politically tonight? GILLESPIE: I mean, the American people are the ones who will lose. But I don't really think that members are going in there thinking oh, I'm going to make an embarrassment of myself. I think I'm going to get my constituents -- my right flank -- far-right flank -- they're going to love this.

BERMAN: Hmm.

GILLESPIE: And I'm going to use it to campaign off of.

BERMAN: So, we get -- every morning before the eve of the State of the Union, we typically get the list of people who will be in the gallery -- the president's specific guests. And what I like most about these is that they're always single entendres. I mean, they're people who are there for one specific reason to highlight one specific thing. And it can be very meaningful.

I mean, you have Latoria Beasley who is an Alabama mother who was going through in vitro fertilization when the Alabama Supreme Court stopped that process. Kate Cox, who Dana talked to right there, who had to leave the state of Texas for an abortion. Maria Shriver -- of course, formal journalist and health care advocate -- but I think notably the cousin of --

BEDINGFIELD: Indeed.

BERMAN: -- RFK Jr.

So if this is a single entendre, Kate, what is that single entendre?

BEDINGFIELD: Well, I think this entire group actually represents what's at stake. I think that's what the White House is trying to do here. They're trying to illustrate what is at stake in this election.

For Maria Shriver to be there I think is important given all of her work but, yes, it doesn't go without noting that she's a family member of Robert F. Kennedy.

I think there is very little question if you're paying close attention to this election that a third-party candidate has the potential to have a huge impact on the outcome. This is going to be a race that's going to be won and lost in the margins. And so, I think the Biden White House is sending a very strong signal here about party unity, and if it's a little dig at RFK Jr. -- well, so be it.

BERMAN: Well, so be it. I'm not sure it's a well, so be it. I'm not sure that's the side effect to it. I think that might be the intention of it.

Maura, actually -- and to add onto the question I asked you before -- who wins, who loses if there is an outburst in the crowd here? One of the things that President Biden has made clear he wants to do -- he said it over the last 24 hours -- is reach out to Nikki Haley voters.

GILLESPIE: Um-hum. BERMAN: So how does he do that in this speech? And if you get that type of reaction from the crowd, does that play into his hands? Does that maybe turn off some Nikki Haley-type voters who will be watching on TV?

GILLESPIE: Absolutely. Being the adult in the room and coming at this from -- being a statesman, right? This is his opportunity to -- while I wish it was more focused on policy, and in some areas it will be -- IVF and talking about abortion -- that will really speak to Nikki Haley voters.

But the performance is actually more important than the substance here. And I think he can really set himself up to appeal to those Nikki Haley voters by, again, drawing a contrast between himself and Donald Trump. Being the calm. Being the steadfast. Being more presidential as opposed to chaos. And so he can -- he can potentially bring in Nikki Haley voters by doing that tonight.

BERMAN: But, as Jeffrey Zients says, energetic. Energetic and calm all at the same time.

[07:45:00]

GILLESPIE: Right.

BERMAN: I get it.

GILLESPIE: But having the stamina to do it -- yeah, exactly.

BERMAN: Maura Gillespie, Kate Bedingfield, great to have you here. Thank you -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, new moves in Arizona suggest that the probe into efforts to overturn the 2020 election there is accelerating ahead of the 2024 presidential election. Sources are telling CNN that state prosecutors -- they've issued several grand jury subpoenas to people related to Donald Trump and those efforts. The state's attorney general could also be close to deciding whether to bring criminal charges.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz has this reporting. She's joining us now. Katelyn, what could happen here?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Kate, this is the sort of thing that happens when prosecutors, like the attorney general in Arizona, may need to decide if they want to bring charges. In this situation, there are several new grand jury subpoenas that we have learned about that have been issued and that are asking questions about the 2020 election. What was happening in that state after the election leading up to January 6.

Now, Kate, this is a state-level investigation. We've seen several of those across the country result in charges. In Nevada, and Michigan, and Georgia, fake electors have been charged who are affiliated with Donald Trump. That's like the low-level people who were putting themselves forward as electors for Trump falsely. But then, in this investigation and in Georgia, there appears to be a broader sense of what the prosecutors are looking at. In these subpoenas, they are asking for things not just about the fake electors' plot but also about attorneys around Donald Trump and people working and affiliated with the national campaign level of Donald Trump and his operation.

Who they could be looking at charging, that's still a question that prosecutors will have to decide and reveal. But it could be people like John Eastman, who is getting -- there are a lot of questions about John Eastman.

And on top of that, Kate, we know that one of the things the Arizona prosecutors have done now is spoken to Ken Chesebro. He was one of the top lawyers working around people like Eastman and others with Trump to organize these fake electors.

Ken Chesebro previously spoke to investigators in Michigan about what he knew and we had obtained the audio there. This is what he said to the Michigan prosecutors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNETH CHESEBRO, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: So, I ended up explaining that Arizona was still hypothetically possible because the alternate electors had voted. And I explained the whole logic. Because the alternate electors had voted, we had more time to win the litigation. So, it was, I think, clear in a way that maybe it hadn't been before, that we had until January 6 to win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: So that would be Ken Chesebro talking about a December 2020 meeting with Donald Trump. That's something that he has shared with prosecutors not just in Michigan where that sound bite came from but also something we know he may be asked about in Arizona where he is speaking to prosecutors.

What the prosecutors do in Arizona there and the charging decisions they might make -- how far up the political ladder they go, that remains to be seen -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, that is definitely a standby to standby. It's good to see you, Katelyn. Thanks for the great reporting -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Still ahead, negotiations for a ceasefire in Gaza by Ramadan are falling apart. What happened? The very latest from the region today.

And the Secret Service announcing a new self-service security screening. You know how when you're at the grocery store and you can check yourself out? Well, apparently, you can check yourself in at the airport. We'll talk all about it coming up.

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[07:57:50]

BERMAN: No number two pencil, no problem -- at least for taking the SAT. As of this Saturday, the college admissions test will be fully online. Test-takers will still have to show up in person but they can use their own laptop or a borrowed computer. The test will be shorter as well -- about two hours instead of three. And no more waiting for the score. They're going to come back in days rather than weeks.

The famous fountains at the Bellagio Hotel in Las Vegas -- they are back in operation. They were temporarily shut down by a bird. A yellow-billed loon, which is one of the 10 rarest birds in the United States, went swimming in that little pond. Now, the hotel worked with Nevada wildlife officials to pause its fountain show for a day so the bird could be removed and taken back to the wild for release. Fly -- fly, bird, or swim in this case.

The TSA announced its rollout of a new self-service security checkpoint. TSA prechecked travelers at a Las Vegas airport -- they can visit a loon and they can be the first to try the new system -- TSA system -- starting in mid-March. The prototype will provide step- by-step instructions on monitors to complete the security screening. The Department of Homeland Security says it is part of a solution to make travel more efficient as the number of airline passengers continues to increase.

Former first lady Betty Ford now has her own postage stamp. Current first lady Jill Biden had the honor of unveiling it in a White House ceremony. Betty Ford was an advocate for breast cancer awareness and also publicly shared her struggles with addiction, later establishing treatment centers around the country. She died in 2011.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, COMEDIAN, HOST, 2024 ACADEMY AWARDS: Everybody looks so great. When I look around this room, I can't help but wonder is Ozempic right for me?

MARCELLO HERNANDEZ, CAST MEMBER, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": You're about to watch the 95th Annual Academy Awards sponsored by Ozempic.

HEIDI GARDNER, CAST MEMBER, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": Ozempic -- I guess everyone in Hollywood has diabetes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: For the record, there is truth in jest. Those jokes born from the reality that trendy new weight loss drugs have become synonymous with celebrities taking them. But the drug's popularity in and outside of Hollywood has caused them to be in short supply for people who really need them for diabetes treatment, for example, and other health reasons.

[07:55:03]

Now, just in time for the Oscars this weekend, drugmaker Eli Lilly rolling out a brand-new ad campaign warning against taking these drugs solely because of, how they put it, vanity.

CNN's medical correspondent Meg Tirrell is joining us now. Tell us more about this ad campaign.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: This is a different kind of ad campaign. We're actually hearing from a drug company saying you shouldn't be taking these medications. We've almost never heard this before.

Eli Lilly makes Zepbound, which is a drug just approved for weight loss, as well as Mounjaro, which is a diabetes drug.

Take a look at this ad that is launching this weekend around the Oscars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELI LILLY AD: Some people have been using medicine never meant for them for the smaller dress, a tux, for a big night. For vanity. But that's not the point. People whose health is affected by obesity are the reason we work on these medications.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TIRRELL: You know, Lilly about --

SIDNER: Wow.

TIRRELL: -- at the end of that ad, quote, "It matters who gets them."

We spoke with Eli Lilly's CEO about why they launched this ad, which is going to run around the Oscars this weekend. He said, in part, they haven't studied these medication for cosmetic weight loss. They've only studied it in people with obesity and with type II diabetes.

He also noted insurance coverage is really poor for people with obesity. Half of people who could qualify for these medicines don't have coverage for them.

And, of course, the shortage issues. He pointed out this is a week around advocacy for obesity around World Obesity Day.

Here is what he told us about the timing of this ad campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID RICKS, CEO, ELI LILLY: This is a serious condition with a serious medication. And yes, the media attention drawn on that from last year and might be drawn this year -- we're taking a point of view on that. That this medicines were invented for people with a serious health condition. They're not invented just to have someone who is famous look a little bit better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TIRRELL: So this is something we've almost never seen before, Sara. And the drug company --

SIDNER: I don't think we've ever seen this.

TIRRELL: Yeah -- is telling people not to take a medicine. I mean, this really shows you the cultural place these medications have started to take. They're expected to be some of the biggest drugs of all time. So many people are trying to take them, the companies can't keep up with demand. They are making billions of dollars and really trying to focus in on here -- you know, who should be taking these medicines. Who they're FDA-approved for.

SIDNER: Meg Tirrell, really interesting. Thank you.

TIRRELL: Thanks.

SIDNER: Kate.

BOLDUAN: So we've learned a Hamas delegation has left Egypt today with no clear breakthrough in the negotiations -- the ongoing negotiations over a ceasefire in exchange for releasing hostages from the October 7 Hamas terror attack.

And Israeli officials are now telling CNN that they do not believe Hamas statements that the militants don't know which hostages are alive and which are dead, which has been a key demand of Israel, effectively freezing negotiations in place at the moment.

All of this very clearly dimming the hopes from the Middle East to the United States that a deal is within grasp right now.

CNN's Paula Hancocks is following all of this. There's been some new -- there's been, at least, new statements coming out this morning not giving a lot of people hope that it's going to be happening anytime soon, Paula. What's happened?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right. I mean, just a week ago, Kate, we heard from the Biden administration that a deal could be within days. And now we are hearing from U.S. officials, quote, "Hope is fading."

The fact that the Hamas delegation has left Cairo shows that there was no breakthrough. Shows that the talks are going nowhere at this point. Then the fact that there wasn't even an Israeli delegation in Cairo also shows that hope is fading.

Now, we have heard from Hamas. They said they were being flexible. They said they had pulled back their demands. But we've heard from Israel that one of those key demands -- the fact that they want this list of hostages -- they want to know which ones are alive and which ones are not -- is just not possible from Hamas. Hamas saying they need the ceasefire in able -- in order to be able to try and get that list together, which as you just said, an Israeli official said they do not believe, saying it is a game at this point.

So this would be extremely disappointing news to many in the region -- to the hostage families and to many of the Palestinian prisoners that would have been released in return as well. And not least for the 2.2 million Palestinians in Gaza.

The U.N. warning that a quarter of the Gaza Strip is on the brink of famine. In northern Gaza, child malnutrition is horrific.

So what we are seeing is -- certainly from humanitarian aid groups as well -- devastation that there won't be this ceasefire. That they won't be able to flood the Gaza Strip with aid anytime soon -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Paula, it's great to have you. Thank you so much for pulling it all together for us. It's good to see you -- John.