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WH: Biden Told Netanyahu That U.S. Policy Depends On Israel's "Immediate Action" To Protect Humanitarians; Judge Rejects Trump's Bid To Dismiss Classified Document Case; Four Days Until Total Eclipse Visible In North America. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 04, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:01:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: President Biden telling Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the deaths of seven aid workers is "unacceptable." Biden warning Israel needs to announce and implement specific concrete measurable steps to protect civilians and aid workers and that an immediate ceasefire in Gaza is essential. We're at the White House and in Jerusalem live with the latest.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Plus, cancer cases expected to skyrocket. A concerning new report says illnesses worldwide could jump 77 percent in the next 25 years.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: The news this afternoon coming after a major call at the White House between Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and President Biden. President Biden apparently telling Netanyahu that an immediate ceasefire in Gaza is essential and now what appears to be an ultimatum is coming into view.

The White House says that Biden made it clear that if Israel doesn't do a better job of protecting civilians and aid workers in the coming hours and days, then he will reconsider U.S. policy in Gaza. This comes in the wake of Israel's deadly strike on an aid convoy there that killed seven aid workers with World Central Kitchen.

The IDF says that it has completed a preliminary investigation into that tragedy and those findings will be shared imminently.

CNN's MJ Lee was at a significant White House briefing focused on all of this.

MJ, you asked National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby about how the U.S. is going to assess the decisions that Israel makes to try to protect aid workers and civilians. But the answer was nebulous at best. He wouldn't provide specifics.

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris. I mean, first of all, the reason that this phone call between the two leaders today was so significant was because this is the first time that we have heard the President, this administration basically say that there could be a change to U.S. policy if Israel doesn't change its conduct.

But you go beyond that headline and the details are quite lacking. The White House says that it wants to see specific concrete and measurable steps that Israel is going to take to alleviate the civilian suffering, the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, but is not saying exactly how they would measure those steps to be taken.

And then in terms of the potential U.S. policy changes, they're not saying anything at all about what those potential policy changes might be. And I've just stepped out of the White House press briefing, and you can imagine that White House spokesman John Kirby got pressed a number of times for more details. And one of the questions I asked him was whether President Biden in his private phone call with the prime minister made clear to him what those potential U.S. policy changes might be. This was his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: The President made clear that absent changes in the protection of civilians on the ground, absent changes to the volume of humanitarian assistance getting in, absent any movement on a ceasefire that will allow hostages to get out and more aid to get in, absent - a calming down, that he will have to reconsider his own policy choices with respect to Gaza.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: The White House also saying that Rafah was not a major point of discussion in this phone call today, even though Israel continues to say, of course, that a ground incursion into Rafah is basically inevitable.

[15:05:02]

The White House has said repeatedly that without a plan to protect the civilians there, that that kind of a military move would be simply unacceptable. The White House also would not go as far as to describe this phone call as an ultimatum that the President offered to the prime minister. But they have been clear that this phone call was born out of the fact that seven aid workers were killed.

This, of course, has really infuriated administration officials, including the President. And just in terms of the timing for the changes that the White House would like to see Israel make in terms of how it is conducting this war. They are saying basically immediate hours and days, is what John Kirby told reporters just now, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Yes, Kirby saying that the President was shaken by the death of those aid workers.

MJ Lee live for us at the White House. Thanks so much, MJ.

We want to take you now live to Jerusalem and CNN's Melissa Bell who's there for us.

Melissa, we've not yet gotten the Israeli government's characterization of this call, the way that Netanyahu sees it. But how does this kind of tough talk land with Netanyahu? How likely is it to be received by him as a dialogue rather than an ultimatum?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you have to remember that this is an Israeli prime minister who's under a great deal of stress politically himself here inside of Israel. Now, we've just been hearing, Boris, that we're going to get tonight from the IDF the results of their preliminary investigation into the strikes that killed the World Central Kitchen workers. That's pretty quick, quicker than we'd anticipated, so in a couple of hours that'll be made public.

The results of the initial investigation, the wider probe, of course, will take longer than that. But this is the part of the probe on which they base their conclusions that this has been a misidentification. I think it's interesting that they are bringing a great deal of transparency quite quickly to that investigation.

As to the rest of it, remember that this is a country under a great deal of stress. We've seen again on the northern border today, more cross-border fire, Hezbollah firing into Israel, the IDF firing back. And the IDF spokesman today coming out and telling Israelis that they could calm down. There was no reason to panic.

And I'm speaking here, of course, of the threats that have been made by Tehran in the wake of the strike that - in Syria that targeted one of their consular - one of the Iranian consular buildings. Israel has not recognized or spoken to it, but it has been blamed by Tehran on Israel with the threats to retaliate from Tehran.

We heard Rear Admiral Hagari today speak to the Israeli public saying, look, there's no need to buy generators. There's no need to get money out from ATMs. We will let you know if there's a change in the situation.

You've also had today in Israel all kinds of problems with GPS. People in Tel Aviv being told by their phones and their cars they were, in fact, in Beirut and Cairo. And this is something that we've seen repeatedly since October 7th, where GPS signals can be scrambled to prevent the kind of missile attacks that depend on GPS coordination.

Now, we've had no confirmation from the Israeli military about that, but certainly it adds to the sense that these are tense, stressful times for ordinary Israelis, keeping an eye as they are on their northern border, watching closely the threats that are coming from Tehran and, of course, watching the fallout of the way this war has been waged in the Gaza Strip, not least from their American ally.

And bear in mind as well that there has been a great deal of pressure on Benjamin Netanyahu these last four days here in Jerusalem. We've seen those protests, not least led by families of the hostages still in the hands of Hamas, who are tired of his strategy and believe that more could have been done to get their loved ones out sooner. So I think what we've just heard from Washington is significant in terms of the extra layer of pressure that it piles on the Israeli prime minister.

SANCHEZ: Yes, pressure on all sides, not only on Netanyahu himself, but on the Israeli people as well.

Melissa Bell live from Jerusalem, thank you so much.

KEILAR: Brianna? With us now, we have CNN Political and Global Affairs Analyst Barak Ravid. He is a politics and foreign policy reporter for Axios.

Barak, let's take a listen to this exchange from the White House just moments ago. Here's National Security Council spokesman John Kirby.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIRBY: Our support is ironclad and consistent. It's not going to stop. It's not going to waver. But will there, perhaps, be some policy changes we might have to make if we don't see policy changes out of Israel? Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How is that unwavering? It sounds like you guys are trying to have it both ways here.

KIRBY: No, I don't know that I can ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We support Israel, but we are going to make all these changes because we don't support Israel.

KIRBY: I didn't say we're going to make changes. I said we need to see how Israel responds to the humanitarian crises in Gaza and how they respond to protection of aid workers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Barack, how serious is this warning from the U.S.? And how serious is Israel taking it?

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BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I think it's a very serious warning from the U.S. I would even call it an ultimatum. There's no other way to look at it. Biden basically told Netanyahu, you need to do a certain - a series of steps. For example, get more aid into Gaza, open more border crossings to Gaza than there are now, take steps to protect civilians and aid workers. Those are very tangible things and you need to do it now. And if you don't do it, the U.S. will change its policy.

And changing the policy means it we'll not give a blank check to Israel to do whatever it wants and we'll not continue to support the war. And we saw that in what Biden said in the call, that he spoke about a ceasefire, an immediate ceasefire as something which is essential. And he did not tie it or link it directly to a hostage deal.

And Biden also told Netanyahu that he needs to empower his negotiators to get a hostage deal. Meaning, that he thinks Netanyahu is not really doing it until now.

KEILAR: What does this mean for the Rafah offensive, which - I mean - and we should be clear, and you've been very clear, Netanyahu has approved it many times and hasn't yet pulled the trigger on it. Can Israel carry out something like what Netanyahu envisions in Rafah and still stay within what the U.S. is demanding here?

RAVID: No. There's no chance that Israel can do it right now after such an ultimatum from Biden, unless it wants to go into an all-out fight with the President of the United States. And honestly, as I said several times before, there is no imminent operation in Rafah. The Israelis told the U.S. just last week that they'll need between three to four weeks just to evacuate civilians from Rafah and the Americans told them that it's an underestimation of how long it will take.

So if we're looking at an operation in Rafah, we're looking at something that will happen maybe, maybe sometime in May, okay? I don't think it will happen even then, because the list of steps that Biden is demanding from Netanyahu is very long, and it takes a lot of time to see that it's implemented.

KEILAR: Kirby was asked if Netanyahu apologized for the strike on the World Central Kitchen workers. And he said he would let Netanyahu answer for that, but he highlighted that the IDF, some - the command has apologized for it. Do you understand whether or not Netanyahu apologized?

RAVID: Well, I'm covering Netanyahu for 15 years now. I'm trying to remember if I ever heard him apologize. I'm not sure, okay? Maybe in 2013 when he apologized to Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan for the killing of Turkish activists on the Mavi Marmara ship. I'm not sure that I've heard him ever, other than this incident, apologize for anything like that. And I wouldn't - don't hold your horses. I mean, don't - I'm sorry.

KEILAR: Don't hold my breath.

RAVID: Don't get your expectations high.

KEILAR: I won't hold my breath there.

RAVID: Yes, don't hold your breath, exactly.

KEILAR: This - they're expecting an announcement. They say they want an announcement coming in the days or hours that sort of meet these, sort of meet these demands that we have heard the White House lay out here. What form do you expect that to take, do you expect Israel will act that quickly?

RAVID: Well, I think what Netanyahu was planning - has been planning to do for some time now and I think the security cabinet is going to vote on it in a few hours, is to change the whole way that decisions are being taken, the whole process of decision-making regarding humanitarian aid to Gaza.

Because until now, Netanyahu, let's say he wanted to take a step, he needed to bring it to the war cabinet, and then to bring it to the security cabinet, and then to bring it to the war cabinet again. And every small change would need another meeting of the security cabinet and this would give a lot of opportunity for the radical right-wing members of Netanyahu's government to try and stall or try to sabotage it. This is going to change.

Netanyahu wants the government to basically give him and the Minister of Defense the power to take decisions on their own when it comes to humanitarian aid for Gaza. And this will streamline a lot of the decisions that need to be made.

KEILAR: All right. Barak Ravid, always insightful. Thank you so much.

[15:15:01]

RAVID: Thank you.

KEILAR: Boris?

SANCHEZ: More breaking news now related to former President Donald Trump and his legal issues. A federal judge, Aileen Cannon, will not dismiss charges against the former president in the classified documents case.

CNN's Paula Reid joins us now.

So, Paula, walk us through the arguments back and forth here. Essentially, the former president has argued that he had the right to take these documents. Now Judge Cannon is saying that that's not enough to dismiss the case.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right. This is one of Trump's many motions that he has made down in Florida trying to get this case dismissed. But here the judge is rejecting his motion based on the argument that he had the right to take these home under the Presidential Records Act. Now, that is a post-Watergate law. That governs which materials created during an administration belong to a president versus the government itself.

Now, Trump has suggested that under that law, he had every right to take these classified documents. Of course, prosecutors have pushed back on that, pointing out that the Presidential Records Act is not charged here. There's not even an enforcement mechanism. And they also point out the fact that these were classified documents that they allege were strewn about his Mar-a-Lago property.

But this issue, Boris, it's caused a lot of tension between the special counsel and the judge because the judge had asked both, both defense attorneys and prosecutors, to submit jury instructions related to the Presidential Records Act. And in a filing late Tuesday, the special counsel had issued its strongest rebuke yet of Judge Cannon and her handling of this case, saying that there is no basis in fact or law for her to ask for these kinds of jury instructions. And they urged her to reject Trump's effort to even allow the Presidential Records Act into this case.

Now, it's interesting, in her decision today on the motion to dismiss, she did punch back a little bit at the special counsel and she insisted that their request that they get a clarity on this issue of jury instructions before the trial starts because they've said, look, if you're going to put this issue in the trial, if you're going to allow this in, we're probably going to appeal. She said that their demand was "unprecedented and unjust."

Look, Boris, this is significant not only because she's rejecting this effort to dismiss the case, but it's notable that she is making a decision because her approach to this case has been unusual, it has come under scrutiny. An analysis done by our colleagues, Tierney Sneed and Hannah Rabinowitz, shows that she has over a dozen matters, decisions to still decide outstanding in this case.

And of those, eight of them are other motions to dismiss. And the longer it takes her to decide those, the less likely it is that this case will go before November.

SANCHEZ: So what are the odds that we get the trial soon, then, highly unlikely with this backlog?

REID: Yes, it seems highly unlikely, Boris. I was in court about a month ago down there in Florida, and we were hearing arguments from both sides about how far back this case should be pushed. Look, it was penciled in very lightly, penciled in late May, but that was a placeholder. And she heard arguments from both sides about how far back in the year it could go.

Of course, the Trump lawyers don't want it to go before the election, because if Trump is reelected, he would, of course, have his attorney general dismiss Jack Smith and these cases. But the special counsel's office was hoping they could start this, this summer.

It's been over a month, though, since that hearing, and we still don't have a trial date. So of the more than a dozen decisions that she has still outstanding, the biggest question we're looking at right now is, when will she place this case on the calendar? But it seems highly unlikely this case would go before November.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Paula, a lot of motions, a lot of rulings to keep track of. We had one in Georgia as well. Judge Scott McAfee there saying that the case wouldn't be dismissed based on Trump's legal team's argument that he was protected in his effort to overturn the 2020 election in the Peach State on the First Amendment. So that was a ruling there.

We also got a filing from the New York attorney general, Letitia James. She wants to make sure that the bond group, the bond company that Trump got his bond for in Judge Arthur Engoron's ruling there actually can back him up financially. Tell us about that.

REID: Boris, for a second, I want to go back to Georgia, though, because this is another effort to dismiss a case. And that argument there was another constitutional argument. They're arguing that what he was doing down in Georgia was political speech. They argue that that should be protected under the Constitution. They're saying, look, effectively, he was talking about politics to politicians. This is political speech.

Now, no one thought that that was going to prevail. But one of the reasons they had to make that argument in Georgia, knowing it would likely be rejected, is because they need to preserve that issue for appeal. And I'm told by sources that the overall strategy down in Georgia is to hope that the mistakes over the course of that case will add up, so that even if there is hypothetically an eventual trial, even if he is convicted, that, on appeal, they might be able to eventually get that case dismissed.

[15:19:59]

So it's really interesting to watch the strategy down there. We see all these motions to dismiss. Again, he still has eight outstanding in the Florida case as well. It's not expected that all of these will be successful. Now, part of this is an effort to delay, but also important to preserve some of these issues for appeal.

SANCHEZ: It seems like the pace of these rulings is going to pick up. Is that a fair assessment?

REID: One would hope, Boris. But I don't know, federal judges, they do what they want to do when they want to do. State judges, less so. Judge McAfee down in Georgia, he is up for re-election, but in talking to sources in the legal community, even on the Trump side of things, they're pretty impressed with the pace he's moving at, and I'm sure the Trump team has no objections with the pace Aileen Cannon is moving at, but the special counsel, of course, has a different view on that.

SANCHEZ: A lot of juggling as we said: rulings, motions, rulings, motions, motions, rulings.

Paula Reid, thank you so much for walking us through all of that. A lot of legal issues the former president has.

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Still ahead, how a single area of Nebraska could decide the 2024 election, and why the Trump team is looking to change the rules there.

Plus, a spectacular celestial show is just four days away. We're timing out the path of totality. We're going to break down who will see what and when.

Plus, a heated brawl on the ice. Eight hockey players ejected two seconds - two seconds into a game. We're talking to a former hockey pro who's now a mindfulness coach on why the sport is so combative. Can't we all just get along?

Those stories and much more coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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[15:26:00]

SANCHEZ: We are now just four days from a spectacular show in the sky. On Monday, the moon is going to momentarily block the face of the sun for a total solar eclipse. Millions of people are going to be able to view it. But if you miss it, you may wind up having to wait a long time. The U.S. isn't going to see another one until 2044.

More on this now with CNN's moon-walking ...

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Moon-walking in.

SANCHEZ: ... Tom Foreman. Tom, give us the details on when this is going to start and who's going to be able to see it.

FOREMAN: It's going to be cool.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

FOREMAN: The scientific term is going to be a lot of people, 32 million plus probably 20 million or more are coming into the area. That's what happened last time. And this time it's a little bit wider. Three and a half to four minutes in duration. That's the really magical time in this. That's what you want to see. And this is the area that we're going to be looking at.

If you go to the path of it down here, it's going to start down here in Mexico, moving up through Texas, sort of through the middle of the country, Niagara Falls, that area you mentioned a minute ago, all the way up past Maine and into Canada. And there will be a whole lot of people flooding into that zone.

Who can see it? It's a weather question. Depending on where you are, the weather changes all the time. Some areas might be clear. At one point, not clear to another. It's going to be that magic three minutes, though. Four minutes. That's what people are really going to care about.

SANCHEZ: A magical three and a half minutes for all the folks along the path of totality. There's going to be a huge economic boom from all of these folks ...

FOREMAN: Oh, yes. Oh, my gosh.

SANCHEZ: ... coming into these areas.

FOREMAN: Yes, a huge number of people.

SANCHEZ: Do we have any guesses as to the figure?

FOREMAN: Oh, no. Nothing that I would rely on. What I would say is, this is the amazing part about this, though. This is the part that I love about this.

Look, this is a freak of nature that this happens. It really is. Think about this, the sun is in diameter 400 times bigger than the moon. I can't even draw it to represent that. SANCHEZ: Yes.

FOREMAN: Four hundred times bigger. And the earth is about four times bigger in diameter than the moon. But because the sun is 400 times further away, it appears about the same size as the moon. That's why this happens. And it only happens sometimes.

Sometimes the moon is a little bit further away, sometimes a little closer. And the moon is gradually moving further away by about a few centimeters every year. So the day will come, not in our lifetime, they will come when there aren't any total eclipses. And this is the only place in the universe that we know this particular math works out this way.

SANCHEZ: Really?

FOREMAN: Yes. It may happen somewhere else because the universe is big.

SANCHEZ: Oh, we don't know for sure.

FOREMAN: But we don't know.

SANCHEZ: Yes. So do's and don'ts, Tom. What should we do? What should we not do?

FOREMAN: First of all, wear something on your eyes. We go through this - every time there's an eclipse, we talk about this with people. But look, this is what you're looking for. This number down here. I'm going to leave that there for a moment. So if you want to just literally take a photo of the screen and remind yourself, this is the number.

Remember this, if it's not doing this, nice posing, if it's not this, you're running a risk. And make sure that what you're covering your eyes with isn't wrinkled, isn't scratched, anything that can go along. And don't think that you can just look through some other device and it'll be fine.

These actually concentrate the light. You need a special filter on those. Protect your eyes so you can watch your dog, your kids, the final four, other things that make your day brighter.

SANCHEZ: Yes, you don't want that kind of retinal damage. Tom Foreman, it's going to be so cool.

FOREMAN: It's going to be so cool.

SANCHEZ: Not as cool as you.

FOREMAN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Moon-walking into this ...

FOREMAN: Well, I'm out of here now.

SANCHEZ: All right.

FOREMAN: So you just go on and do your show.

SANCHEZ: Tom Foreman, thank you so much, sir. Brianna?

KEILAR: That was great. Thanks, Tom.

Most will agree that witnessing a total solar eclipse, it's just a breathtaking once-in-a-lifetime experience. But why do we care so deeply about this astronomical phenomenon. Is there more to it than just a stunning display?

Joining us now to discuss is Dr. Jeff Gardere. He is a Clinical Psychologist and Associate Professor at the Touro College of Osteopathic Medicine.

All right. Talk to us, Doc, why do you think people are so fascinated by solar eclipses?

JEFF GARDERE, BPARD CERTIFIED CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, did you hear what Boris said earlier? That it was a fantastical celestial phenomenon.

[15:29:58]

And then Tom came on and talked about how this could be something that we may not see again.