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Rep. Greene Escalates Threat to Remove Speaker Johnson in New Letter; Interview with Rep. John Garamendi (D-CA): Wants Assurances Before Approving F-15 Fighter Jet Sale to Israel; Crumbleys Sentenced to 10-15 Years in Prison for Son's Rampage. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 09, 2024 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: A Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene just spoke to CNN hours after she sent out a scathing rebuke of House Speaker Mike Johnson. The House got back from a two-week break today and Republicans returned to a letter from the Congresswoman from Georgia escalating her call for Johnson's ouster from the speakership.

She also said she would, quote, not tolerate Johnson's expected request to drum up more aid for Ukraine. Greene has been outraged that Johnson cut a deal with Democrats to avoid a government shutdown last month. She made the first step to force a floor vote to push him out.

Now, CNN's Manu Raju just spoke to Congresswoman Greene and he joins us live from Capitol Hill. Manu, what did she share with you?

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, she made very clear that she is not backing off her effort. She is trying to lay the groundwork for a vote for his ouster.

But she would not say what exactly would propel her to actually call for that vote. She warned Mike Johnson not to move ahead on aid to Ukraine, for instance, saying that essentially they'd be making the case for her if he were to go that route. But would not go as far as saying that that specifically is the red line.

She said she wants to make the case to her colleagues who, in her view, Mike Johnson has been nothing more than like a Democratic speaker of the House. The question, will Republicans join her? She didn't say whether or not how many Republicans she would have or made clear she's ready to move ahead at the appropriate time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: So you sent this letter out to your colleagues this morning. What kind of response have you got?

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Mostly support. It's been pretty incredible. Everyone's flying into town today, though, so I haven't spoken with everyone. But most of the members I've talked to agree with what I've said. They may not come out and publicly say it. Many are relieved I've said it.

And I've even heard within the ranks of leadership. There's agreement there. So --

RAJU: There's agreement from members of the leadership.

GREENE: And with my letter, with much of what I said in the letter. This is difficult to do. This is not what I would like to be doing, but I believe it's necessary.

This isn't a personal attack against Mike Johnson himself or his staff in any way. But Mike Johnson has completely betrayed our conference and his leadership cannot be allowed to continue going forward in this manner.

RAJU: What is, you know, you've been saying that since you introduced this resolution a couple of weeks ago. What's holding you back from actually calling for a vote here?

GREENE: Well, you know, Manu, I really respect my conference. And in my letter, I laid out how I am a team player and the ways that I have supported our majority. I'm one of the few members that has paid all of my NRCC dues. I fought for this majority. I'm fighting for the next majority. I know how critical that is.

And in doing so, I don't want to throw our conference into chaos. Mike Johnson has already done that. We are a conference in chaos right now because our Republican Speaker of the House is passing major bills without the majority of the majority support.

In doing so, respecting my conference and the other members in the conference, I need to communicate with them. And so I wrote that letter today, laying out all the reasons with specific examples that no one can argue with so that they can understand my reasoning. Have time to think it over and we can come together and start talking about this.

I also put it out publicly because I think it's important for the American people to read. I don't want them to just see us up here fighting constantly, because one of the things that people want is they want us to figure out how to get along in Washington, work together and do the right thing.

And, you know, I come from a business background. And the way you get a job done for your customers, I view the American people as our customers, is we have to work together. So this letter to my colleagues is the beginning of that.

First, we admit the problems. First, we admit the wrongs. And then we come up with a plan for change. I'm working on the changes that I would like to see, and I'll be proposing with my colleagues. And I look forward to talking with them about that.

RAJU: Is it changes in terms of specific people who would be the next speaker of the House?

GREENE: I haven't gotten to that step yet, but that may be something I move toward. Of course, that would be private conversations in our conference. I personally would love it if a speaker of the House is chosen by a public vote, but it's not that way. The speaker of the House is chosen by the majority in control in Congress, and that is a private vote that starts within the conference itself.

[15:35:00]

So those are conversations we have to have privately first. But you know what? I'm very transparent with the people. I will be communicating my thoughts and plans going forward, of course, with my district. That's why I had a town hall last night before I came to Washington this week.

But we have to make a change and we have to actually follow through in action what our words say. And that's most important.

RAJU: Are you worried about -- you saw what happened last fall? This being a chaotic 22 days and beyond and unable to get behind another speaker. Are you worried about chaos in the middle of an election year?

GREENE: Well, of course I'm worried about chaos in an election year. Mike Johnson has put us into chaos. Do you realize that all of my colleagues had to go back to their districts and campaign on the fact that our Republican elected speaker passed the Biden agenda? That he funded the Department of Justice that has 91 federal indictments against President Trump? That he funded the FBI that raided Mar-a- Lago? That he funded Biden's open border, which is the number one issue in America?

Yes, we are in chaos. And that's coming from Mike Johnson, our Republican elected speaker. Am I concerned about a contentious, difficult three and a half weeks electing a speaker? Absolutely. I was miserable during that time. All of us were.

I'm not going to throw our conference into chaos. I will not give our majority to the Democrats, but I will work this process respectfully with my colleagues.

But I am not backing away of leading this and I'm not backing down from having those difficult conversations. That's what comes with leadership. And my colleagues need to be ready and be prepared for that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU (on camera): Now, one conversation that she has not had yet is with the speaker of the House himself, Mike Johnson. In fact, they were supposed to speak on Friday, but that didn't happen. And I asked Marjorie Taylor Green, why not? And she said, well, because she wanted to have a town hall with her constituents first.

That happened yesterday. She said she's ready to meet with him going forward. I also asked her about her conversations with Donald Trump.

She did not want to reveal her conversations with him about this topic. She did say that she spoke with Trump today. I asked her if Trump is behind this, about whether or not he's trying to dissuade her in any way. She suggested that perhaps he is not dissuading her on this topic at this moment.

So that is one dynamic to watch here and also the big dynamic. How much support does she actually have? So many Republicans saw what happened last fall in that historic and unprecedented ouster of Kevin McCarthy. Do they have the gut to go through that again in an election year?

And what will Democrats do? Will they come to Johnson's defense, especially if he moves forward with aid to Ukraine? So that is the big question, something that Johnson has to navigate. How do Democrats respond? How will Republicans respond when he unveils this aid package? What will Marjorie Taylor Greene do? All huge issues and problems for the speaker.

SANCHEZ: Yes, potentially way more chaos ahead.

Manu, a couple of things I found it fascinating that in her response to you, she said that this wasn't a personal attack on Speaker Johnson. And then she went on to describe his action by coming to this deal with Democrats as a betrayal. She calls him a Democrat, which in MAGA world is a pejorative. It's almost offensive. Right.

I'm wondering, as she says that she's waiting to see what he does on aid to Ukraine. What's your understanding of where negotiations stand right now, where the conversation stands right now about potentially bringing more Ukraine aid to the floor?

RAJU: Yes, that is uncertain. What we know is that the speaker is trying to move forward with an aid package to Ukraine that is different, that will pass the Senate. That was a $795 billion bill that passed two months ago that included Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan aid.

It did not have anything to do with the border because Mike Johnson, along with Donald Trump, killed a bipartisan border security deal. Johnson now is trying to narrow that Senate aid package on Ukraine aid, also trying to add some other provisions in there, including potentially a loan to Ukraine. As well as some other provisions dealing with the border, border security, potentially codifying that Trump era remain in Mexico policy.

But when I asked her about that, too, would she be open to anything about Ukraine? Marjorie Taylor Greene made it clear. She said that is not going to do anything to change her mind. In fact, she said that that would make her case for her.

So Johnson would consider that. But there's so much pressure right now on Johnson from Senate Republicans like Mitch McConnell, who are calling on him to act. From many House Republicans like Michael McCaul, the House Foreign Affairs Committee chairman and other Ukraine supporters within the House Republican Conference who are demanding action. Mike Johnson seems to recognize that there needs to be some action on Ukraine. He's changed his approach on this issue from when he was a rank and file member to now being Speaker of the House, potentially because of all those classified briefings he gets on this very topic.

So can he bridge the divide within the GOP?

[15:40:00]

Can he placate Democrats even if he loads it up with provisions aimed at courting Republicans, including on the border? Those are all complicated issues. And also, can he get it through the House and then back to the Senate and over the president's desk in time to make a difference in the war in Ukraine?

Those are all very weighty issues that the speaker is now contemplating and now trying to navigate within this bitterly divided Republican conference. And oh, yes, he is very, very narrow room to maneuver here, given the fact that in just a couple of weeks, he will only have one vote to spare on the Republican side of the aisle.

So you can you can see there the dynamics are very complicated to say the least for Mike Johnson.

SANCHEZ: Yes, on top of all of that, the calendar is also an issue because soon a lot of these folks on Capitol Hill are going to head back to their districts right before autumn to start campaigning for reelection in November. Manu Raju, a lot of ground we covered. Always appreciate you, Manu.

RAJU: Thanks, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still to come, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says no force in the world will stop Israel's operation in Rafah. While U.S. officials say they are still talking to Israel about potential alternatives to an incursion. Stay with NEWS CENTRAL. We're back in just a moment.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Happening now. Families of Americans held hostage by Hamas are meeting privately with Vice President Kamala Harris in Washington as ceasefire talks are still ongoing.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And in the meantime, Israel is pledging to move ahead with an invasion of the southern Gaza City of Rafah, where more than a million refugees are struggling to survive. This is where they have evacuated to and are seeking shelter.

Today, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said no force on Earth would stop those plans. Joining us now, we have the top Democrat on the House Armed Services

Committee, California Congressman John Garamendi. Sir, thank you for taking the time to be with us. I do want to ask you about House Foreign Affairs member Gregory Meeks, who was asked about the signing off on the sale of F-15 fighter jets to Israel.

He said he's waiting for assurances. I'm going to, when I go back to Washington, D.C., I want to make sure I know the types of weapons and what the weapons would be utilized for.

Do you agree with him?

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Absolutely. He's absolutely correct. We've seen too much. We've seen more than 30,000 civilians killed in this ongoing war. It simply has to stop.

And the United States should not be sending 2,000-pound bombs to Israel, as apparently might happen. We simply have to tell Israel that the horrible events, not only that were instituted by Hamas against Israel, but then Israel's response simply has to stop. And if Israel intends to invade Rafah, then they absolutely have to do it differently.

Otherwise, we should not move forward with the F-15s, which will not arrive soon. But nonetheless, a very strong signal, and no more 2,000- pound bombs or anything of that nature.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, this obviously comes, as we heard from Benjamin Netanyahu, saying that there was no force in the world that would be able to stop Israel's ground operation in Rafah.

How confident are you that the U.S. attaching conditions or limits to military aid might make the prime minister change his mind?

GARAMENDI: Well, there's a whole lot more than military aid. There's $3-4 billion a year of financial assistance. There's an enormous number of other activities that are going on.

And the prime minister of Israel must know, must know that he's not conducting this war by himself. It is being conducted using American equipment and American bombs. And 30,000 people, civilians, have died. Half of those are children. It simply has to stop.

Now, if he intends to invade Rafah, then does he intend to do it the same way? Or does he have different tactics in mind? It can be done with different tactics.

But there's a whole lot more things going on. And the previous thing that you had about the funding for Israel tied with the funding for Ukraine is extraordinarily important. While we have the obligation to make sure that our weapons are not used inappropriately by Israel, we also have the obligation to continue to support Ukraine.

It was Russia that invaded Ukraine. And it seems to me that far too many Republicans are listening to Putin's propaganda and adopting the propaganda. We see that in the Republican conference here. [15:50:00]

It is unconscionable that the Republican conference cannot get itself together to continue the support that is absolutely essential for Ukraine to be able to withstand another assault, another assault by the Russian army.

We have to act. We cannot wait on that. And we cannot allow Israel to continue to use our weapons to indiscriminately kill civilians.

KEILAR: Sir, while we have you, a key voice on the House Armed Services Committee, Military.com has been reporting that the army is considering cuts to two key education benefits for tuition assistance and also credentialing assistance, which many members of the armed services use. As you are seeing, obviously, recruiting problems in the military, I wonder if you think that's a good idea.

GARAMENDI: Well, Brianna, you hit it right on. The military is having serious problems recruiting. So you're going to cut the benefits for those who want to recruit? It doesn't make any sense. There will be very strong pushback, I am certain, by the Armed Services Committee, and you can count me among those that are going to push back on this.

There's a recruiting problem, yes. You're going to cut the benefits by 75 percent and expect to be successful recruiting? No, not going to happen. Besides that, the military is the single largest educational system in the United States for career technical education.

Everybody that is in the military has the opportunity to learn a trade, not just how to shoot a gun, but also how to run an engine, a diesel engine, or electronics and IT and on and on and on. So this is all part of it. It doesn't make any sense at all.

KEILAR: How to run a hospital, all kinds of things. Congressman, we really, really appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Congressman John Garamendi, thank you.

GARAMENDI: Thank you.

KEILAR: And we'll be right back.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: A landmark hearing in Michigan today. Jennifer and James Crumbley were sentenced to 10 to 15 years in prison, each of them becoming the first parents held criminally responsible for a mass shooting carried out by their child.

SANCHEZ: Here's a closer look at today's hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JENNIFER CRUMBLEY, MOTHER OF OXFORD HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTER: My husband and I used to say we have the perfect kid. LAURA AGUIRRE, REPORTER (voice-over): Now Jennifer and James Crumbly have been sentenced on convictions for their roles in their son's deadly actions.

JUDGE CHERYL MATHEWS, OAKLAND COUNTY, MICHIGAN CIRCUIT COURT: It is the sentence of this court, Ms. Crumbley, that you've served 10 to 15 years with the Michigan Department of Corrections.

AGUIRRE (voice-over): James Crumbly received the same, with each getting credit for 858 days already served.

The couple was separately convicted earlier this year, each on four counts of involuntary manslaughter. Ethan Crumbley is serving life without parole for killing four classmates at Oxford High School in November of 2021 with a gun his father purchased for him. The families of the four students killed spoke to the Crumbleys before sentencing.

JILL SOAVE, MOTHER OF OXFORD SHOOTING VICTIM JUSTIN SHILLING: It doesn't appear that either of you cherished or even wanted your son, but I wholeheartedly wanted and cherished mine.

NICOLE BEAUSOLEIL, MOTHER OF OXFORD SHOOTING VICTIM MADISYN BALDWIN: When you texted, Ethan, don't do it. I was texting Madison, I love you, please call mom.

REINA ST. JULIANA, SISTER OF HANA JULIANA: I now have to live without Hana, my little sister, my best friend, my other half.

BUCK MYRE, FATHER OF VICTIM TATE MYRE: Tate Myre's family is ready to hear the truth. It's time to drive real change from this tragedy.

AGUIRRE (voice-over): Both Crumbleys apologized to the families, and James addressed victim Tate Myre's father directly.

JAMES CRUMBLEY, FATHER OF OXFORD HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTER: The whole truth has not been told. You know that what my son did, I was not aware of.

JENNIFER CRUMBLEY: If there's anything the general public can take away from this, is that this could happen to you too.

AGUIRRE (voice-over): I'm Laura Aguirre reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: She's saying it can happen to you too, but the point of this sentence, and we heard some legal advocates say today, is so that it doesn't. This may serve as a reminder to parents they need to take action.

SANCHEZ: Yes, incredibly emotional hearing those parents share their pain in court. It really was a landmark case.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts after a quick break.