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Geopolitical Tensions In Asia; US-Japan Steel Deal Controversy; Supreme Court Decision In Arizona On Abortion; Ceasefire Talks Between Israel And Hamas. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 10, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: You've allowed them to just fire and test missiles. So at the same time, what you heard from that first question that Kushida got from his media is the concern within Japan that ramping up their defense is going to trigger more Chinese aggression. You know, the Japanese constitution doesn't allow war of aggression by Japan. But in the past couple of years, Japan has reformed its national security program, increased its defense spending because it's looking at North Korea, Chinese aggression, and also looking ahead possibly to another Trump administration where it's not so sure the U.S. will come to the rescue. And it's making these investments to be able to stand on its own.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: They're clearly also emphasizing here their unity, right? But there is something obviously hanging over this. And we understood from MJ Lee's reporting that it might not come up, which is the U.S. steel deal. However, it did come up. Obviously, they were going to be asked about it. And that is that Japan's largest steelmaker offered to purchase U.S. steel to the tune of $14 billion in December. Biden is very opposed to this. He's trying to stand with the union. I wonder what you made of it. The question, as it was, was, did it come up? Did the topic come up? No one answered. No one answered directly. And Prime Minister Kishida basically said discussions are underway between the parties. And then he sort of said Japan believes something to the effect of, you know, based on the law.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Law, right.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: He's saying it's legal for us to do this.

DOZIER: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: And Biden is saying he stands by the union. He stands by his alliances. What do you make of that?

DOZIER: Basically, they very politely in public agreed to disagree. And what the Japanese are saying is they're going to let this process make its way through the court system, through the various approval processes. And but they know that Biden's in an election year. They know he's got to publicly state that he's against this deal. And they're hoping that the various regulatory organizations and the courts will allow the sale to go forward.

SANCHEZ: An incredibly polite agree to disagree there. Kim Dozier, good to get your perspective on things. Thanks for being with us. So you heard President Biden there touching on Arizona at the very end of the press briefing that's following the huge Supreme Court decision in the state yesterday. It promises to be one of the definitive issues in the 2024 campaign.

KEILAR: It certainly does. And earlier today, former President Trump spoke about that abortion ban. He said these restrictions are for the states to decide. He said that he would not sign a federal abortion ban as president. He said it went too far. And that he believed the governor would sort of bring this back to something more reasonable. I don't -don't take that quote to the bank, but that's sort of what he was saying there. This is a ban that goes back to 1864, was codified into law in 1901. And it would make Arizona one of America's most restrictive states when it comes to women's reproductive rights.

It gets rid of a 15-week ban there in Arizona. Let's go back now to the White House, to CNN's Kayla Tausche. First off, Kayla, I'm just going to put in my plug for, let's say, maybe some more news conferences there at the White House, maybe some more questions there at these news conferences, because clearly there were questions that the president wanted to answer beyond the two and two. The White House response has been pretty pointed to this Arizona reaction. And clearly, reporters knew he'd want to talk about it after the news conference.

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And to that, Brianna, I would say join the club. The White House Correspondents Association and the White House to do more events like this with more opportunities for more reporters to ask questions beyond the two and two format. To that end, though, it is very clear that President Biden wanted to make that pitch from the Rose Garden to say to the American people, elect me if you do not agree with that decision. In my reporting, it is very clear in discussing with Biden administration officials and Biden campaign officials that they believe that that decision by Arizona Supreme Court will only make the contrast even more stark between President Biden and former President Trump's position when the two really get into the homestretch of the general election.

They believe that this decision is essentially the manifestation of President Trump's stated policy to let the states decide on abortion and that the result of that will be that states make their own decisions and many of them will go forward with what looks like a full outright abortion ban by Arizona. Now, in this state, the Biden campaign feels very good about its chances there. They cite polling by PPRI that 62% of Arizonans support abortion. They say it should be legal in most or all cases. But of course, abortion is not the only issue for voters there.

[14:05:09] And it is the only issue in Arizona where Biden, according to the Wall Street Journal, is out polling his opponent on the economy, on immigration, on fitness for office. He's down to former President Trump by greater than 20 points in some cases. But even so, they believe that this will be the galvanizing issues for voters when they go to the polls and that it only makes the choice clear for American voters.

SANCHEZ: Kayla Tausche, thanks for breaking that down for us live from the White House. Let's bring in CNN's Kristen Holmes, who's covering the Trump campaign. Kristen, Trump is all over the map on abortion policy historically. His latest comments, though, sort of casting the responsibility of designing abortion legislation to the states. Walk us through those comments.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Boris, I mean, this really just goes to show you how fine of a line that Donald Trump has to walk. We know on Monday he said that the decision on reproductive rights should belong to the states. But then today he was criticizing a decision made by the states. Here's what he said on that Arizona ban. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Mr President did Arizona go too far?

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yeah they did, and that'll be straightened out and as you know, its all about state's rights. That'll be straightened out and I'm sure that the governor and everybody else are going to bring it back into reason. And that will be taken care of, I think very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, when it comes to whether or not Donald Trump would support a national abortion ban or whether or not he believes that this should go to the states, his team believe that the better political move for them was to say that this should go to the states. Now that doesn't mean that Donald Trump is not going to speak out on some of these decisions. But their overall thinking on this was that no matter what happens in the states, even if Donald Trump got behind a national federal abortion ban, he would still be blamed for what was going on in the states. And a national federal abortion ban is much less popular across the country. But again, it goes to show you how critical this issue is and how Donald Trump is aware that he has a very fine line to walk.

Now, you also mentioned national abortion ban. He was asked by reporters twice whether or not he would get behind a national abortion ban if he was in the White House. And he said no two times. That is really trying to clarify his position from Monday, where he just talked about the states, but never even raised this idea of a national abortion ban, despite the fact that he had been publicly flirting with this abortion ban for the last several weeks, talking about it in multiple interviews. Now, he is not the only one that is kind of having a change of heart. We also saw Kari Lake after she had said years ago that she supported this all out abortion ban in Arizona. Then she came out yesterday saying that it went too far, that it was out of steps with out of step with Arizonans. So you're going to see this from Republicans across the board, particularly those Republicans who are up for an election in 2024.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, she said we have a great law on the books in Arizona. And then yesterday, completely backtracked on that. Kristen Holmes, thank you so much. Let's discuss the ramifications of this with CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Alice Stewart. We also have with us Democratic strategist and former senior advisor for the Biden 2020 campaign, Alencia Johnson. Alencia, first to you, obviously, there is going to be a human cost to this decision in the in the immediate and Democrats have expressed anger and frustration over that. Yet electorally, this is a gift.

ALENCIA JOHNSON, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR, BIDEN 2020 CAMPAIGN: Yeah, absolutely. It is. Listen, and let's be very clear. This is, very detrimental to families and people who are trying to have children who, you know, also continue to need abortion care, no matter what it is, because this is reproductive health care. The reality, though, is this has been the political gift from the Republican Party since the Dobbs decision. And as we see, the polling numbers show the support of access to abortion across party lines, even in very red states. Abortion is winning when it's on the ballot and it's put directly in front of voters. The other piece about this, look, we have so many tapes of President Trump taking credit for the Dobbs decision.

And now, because he sees that it is not actually helpful for Republicans, he's trying to go back and forth. But the problem that he has is how is he going to continue to galvanize the base of evangelicals and anti-abortion activists? Whereas for Democrats, the more that he muddies the water on what he's going to say or what he's going to do, we firmly believe that if he was in office, he would definitely sign a federal abortion ban. The more we have to galvanize our base, because this is a top issue for a lot of Democratic voters.

KEILAR: Because I wonder, Alice, you know, one side of his mouth and politically, he doesn't really have a choice when you look at the realities. He has to talk out of both sides. And on one, he's saying, yeah, I'm very proud of what I did, putting those justices in place and that they overturned Roe. But then he was asked about whether they went too far. The Arizona Supreme Court. Yeah, they did. And that'll be straightened out. And he goes on to say, I'm sure the governor and everyone else are going to bring it back into reason, and that will be taken care of.

[14:10:09]

He's relying on Democrats to clean up his mess. I don't know that they're hopping in line to do that.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, certainly not the Arizona governor is not going to do something to help out Donald Trump. And the reality is, look, Donald Trump should take a lot of credit for what he did to appoint the three conservative justice to the Supreme Court and fighting to overturn Roe v. Wade, which has been a big policy for him in the pro-life community. But we're now in a new post-Dobbs era and the political reality of this issue is changing and it has changed every time this has been on the ballot. As she mentioned, the pro-abortion crowd has won and you can be pro-life, anti-abortion, but you have to acknowledge the reality of this. And I think Donald Trump is trying to make sure he understands with support for abortion at such a high level in not just Arizona, but other states. He has to be a little bit more moderate. He can be pro-life, but we have to talk about abortion limits and not full bans.

And this talk about a federal ban is really not a valid argument because we're never going to get 60 votes in the Senate for a federal ban. So he is basically trying to make sure people understand. I want to make sure we're talking about limits and not bans. And they're still, he is going to answer with the pro-life community. They are happy with this ruling. They think this is a good thing. It saves lives. They do have concerns about the ballot initiative that is going to be out there and how this is for unrestricted late-term abortions as well as not helped standards, so children or young kids don't have to have parental consent. So there's some issues from the pro-life community. But I think they understand we need to be a little bit more moderate on this issue if we're going to appeal to independent voters heading into the general election.

KEILAR: I mean a lot of those- I will just say a lot of the things you mentioned don't happen in many states.

STEWART: Right. No.

KEILAR: Massachusetts, I think, is 24 weeks, which is like the accepted viability. There's parental consent in a lot of places that are considered liberal states. I just want to be very clear about what we're dealing with state by state.

SANCHEZ: I do want to dig into Kari Lake further because that race in Arizona, the Senate race, could determine control of the U.S. Senate. Yesterday, she released a statement shortly after the decision. We actually have it. She wrote, quote, I oppose today's ruling and I'm calling on Katie Hobbs and the state legislature to come up with an immediate common sense solution that Arizonans can support. Previously, she actually had this to say. Let's listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

KARI LAKE (R), U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE: I'm incredibly thrilled that we are going to have a great law that's already on the books. I believe it's ARS 13-3603. So it will prohibit abortion in Arizona except to save the life of a mother.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: So clearly a flip-flop there. Outside of the policy, how does that potentially hurt her with voters? This is someone who, at least from what we've seen, will say just about anything, even outside of the truth, if it stands to give her gain politically.

STEWART: Look, the etch-a-sketch of moving into a general election is nothing new. Every candidate does it. You have a more, I guess, extreme position in the primary. But as you're going into a general election and you're appealing to independent voters and more moderate voters, and in this case, suburban women voters, you have a more moderate position on this. And I think Kari Lake in this instance clearly sees the numbers. In Arizona, 62 percent of people want to see some type of abortion. And she's looking at how am I going to appeal to those voters? And she's taking a more moderate position.

It's up to the voters. Do they believe her now or do they believe her previous position on this? And that is something that she is going to have to continue to make the case where she stands now as she heads into November. Because as we have Vice President Harris will be going there Friday, Democrats will make this a key issue. And I don't blame them. It is a galvanizing issue for Democrats. It's up to Republicans to make sure that they can meet the moment on this particular issue.

KEILAR: Alencia, this is going to be motivating in Arizona. We're going to see that. And there's going to be a ballot initiative, we expect, that will give a lot of people a reason, a lot of people who align with Joe Biden to out to the polls and that could favor him. But I wonder what you think, because I've heard some Democrats from states where maybe it isn't as pressing an issue there. I wonder what you think in some states, you know, Pennsylvania, for instance, where maybe it isn't as much on the mind of individual voters. They have rights when it comes to access to abortion. They're not as animated by it. Do you worry that this is not going to animate them at the polls?

JOHNSON: I'm not going to say I'm not worried. I'm just going to say that I think it gives us the understanding of why it was so important for the Biden campaign to raise as much money as it has to have boots on the ground in all of these states to see how these top issues play out in the table conversations in Pennsylvania versus in Arizona versus the Florida versus Georgia. The states go on.

[14:15:09]

The issue will still be very top of mind because of the fact that the Biden administration, their hands are tied to some of the ways in which they're able to protect abortion care nationally because of the Dobbs decision. So the Biden campaign is on the ground letting folks know exactly what these decisions mean, whether in the state like Arizona or nationally what they mean. And so I also do see a lot of groups like Reproductive For All and Planned Parenthood in these states as well, galvanizing people around the issues because while Pennsylvania feels as though they have the right to abortion protected, what does that mean for the other states, for people who do not have access to abortion as they are crossing state lines?

And one more thing I wanted to talk about too, you mentioned some of the scenarios in which Republicans and anti-abortion activists are against abortion. But a lot of those scenarios that you mentioned, as Brianna said, they are not accurate, right? And we should be leaving these decisions up to doctors, the medical professionals and families. And that is where Democrats are trying to make sure folks understand that this conversation on abortion, we're having a political and policy conversation, but this is a medical conversation and should be left up to health care providers to give the best health care that they can to all of the families and their patients. And that includes abortion care.

STEWART: I think the most, the best progress we've had on this against with overturning Roe v. Wade, we've taken this decision out of the hands of unelected justices. Put it in the hands of elected officials. And now elected officials in the state of Arizona are going to be the one to represent. They're going to represent the will of the people.

JOHNSON: (inaudible)

(CROSSTALK)

STEWART: And I'll be honest, it's not ideal for Republicans and pro- life advocates, because if the will of the people is for some type of abortion access, then that's going to be the will of the people of Arizona. And that's what I think is the best service for the people of this country.

JOHNSON: I say it's up to doctors. So.

SANCHEZ: Alencia Johnson, Alice Stewart, appreciate the conversation. Thanks for being with us.

STEWART: Thank you.

JOHNSON: Thank you

SANCHEZ: Still plenty more news to come on CNN News Central. Hamas says that it cannot locate 40 Israeli hostages in order to complete the first round of a ceasefire deal. This is raising fears that more hostages than publicly known may be dead. And a surprisingly strong inflation report might mean the Fed has to wait a bit longer to lower interest rates. What that could mean for your wallet. Next.

KEILAR: Plus, the EPA wants your drinking water to get cleaner. The new limits it has just announced. Coming up.

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[14:20:09]

KEILAR: Today new details are emerging about the ongoing ceasefire talks between Israel and Hamas. According to an Israeli official and a source familiar with discussions, Hamas has indicated that it is unable to identify and track down 40 Israeli hostages who meet the conditions of those needed for the first phase of the ceasefire deal. A current framework laid out by negotiators said that during a first six-week pause in fighting, Hamas should release 40 of the remaining hostages and that includes all the women as well as sick and elderly men. In exchange hundreds of Palestinian prisoners would be released from Israeli prisons. Sources say Hamas has told mediators it does not have 40 living hostages who match that criteria. Let's talk about this now with CNN global affairs analyst ,Mark Esper. He served as secretary of defense during the Trump administration. Sir i wonder if you think that this will tank hostage and ceasefire talks. MARK ESPER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well good afternoon Brianna. Its certainly very troubling that they can't identify the 40 people or anybody matching that criteria. Israel has been asking for identification now for weeks because that is the number one thing, arguably the sole thing that they want right now, is return of the hostages. Now, the latest count had that there were about 133 hostages remaining in Gaza. Thirty-six or so of them were confirmed dead. So the question is, where are these remaining 92? And at this point, if the reports are correct, then they are largely all Israeli male soldiers at this point. So this is going to be a major issue, a major stumbling block in these negotiations.

KEILAR: Netanyahu is again promising an invasion of Rafah. There are so many Palestinians who are sheltering. But we've also heard him, you know, repeatedly approving plans for Rafah, talking about it, and then it not happening when we think that perhaps it could. Do you think that ultimately this will happen, an invasion of Rafah?

ESPER: Yes, I definitely think it will. Frankly, I think it needs to if they're going to accomplish their objective of destroying Hamas for whichever way they define that. And, you know, if they don't go into Rafah, and Hamas's leadership remains, and the four militant battalions that are garrisoned there remain, then I think Hamas on the back end will declare victory going all the way back to October 7th, and, of course, try to replicate this over and over again. So I think he will and needs to go in. But that said, that doesn't mean he cannot increase the amount of humanitarian aid going into Gaza. And we know as of today, a senior Israeli official said that they aim to get up to 500 trucks a day into Gaza, which would match pre-conflict levels.

[14:25:19]

And at the same time, they have to do far better when it comes to limiting civilian casualties. And by the way, all those objectives are not necessarily incompatible. It just takes a greater degree of care and sophistication to achieve them all at the same time.

KEILAR: Which they haven't shown so far. We've seen that. So how would they do that when it comes to Rafah? And you have so many, I mean, let's, the children, let's just be clear, innocent children who are there in Rafah, how would Israel need to approach that if there's an invasion?

ESPER: Yeah, well, first of all, on the humanitarian aid side, they need to open up more crossings. They need to open up the port. You know, apparently after promising President Biden several days ago that the port would be open, that really hasn't happened yet. We have seen increased aid flows. That is good. I would argue double the number of inspectors or whatever to increase throughput as well. And then on the warfighting side of things, I think you have to reduce the number of airstrikes that you're using with heavy weaponry, heavy aerial bombs, and really use your ground forces in a far more discriminant manner. And then with regard to the civilians in Rafah, you've got to find a way to move them out of Rafah, either back up north, or I've said a few times, Egypt can open up its crossing and create a safe area there for a matter of weeks to provide the Gazans protection while the IDF culminates this final phase of clearing out Rafah, because they also have to go underground as well to find Yahya Sinwar, the Gazan leader, and as well as the four militant battalions.

KEILAR: Why would Egypt do that now if they haven't done that in the last several months?

ESPER: Yeah, great point. I mean, I've been saying this for a while is we put so much pressure on Israel. I think long ago, we should have pressured Egypt to do more to provide some type of sanctuary, temporary sanctuary across the border, a safe area for Palestinians, but they haven't done that. At this point, they probably won't. So it's going to be incumbent on Israel to really move the folks out of Rafah, move them either further east or back up north to get them out of the way while the Israeli ground forces conduct this operation. And again, doing so house by house, block by block. They have to be very discriminant, strict, try and maintain as much as you can, relying on small arms, things like that, that will produce less collateral damage, less unnecessary killing.

KEILAR: You're describing a different war than we have seen prosecuted, quite frankly, which is what the U.S. appears to be requesting. So we'll have to see if Israel does proceed in that manner. Secretary, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it.

ESPER: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: So next, feel like your paycheck isn't going as far. Maybe you're not, you know, you're purchasing power. It's just not there. You're not imagining it, though. We just got a new inflation report. So what it shows, plus Donald Trump's former CFO is headed back to Rikers. We have the details of his sentencing and whether it could impact next week's hush money trial.

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