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Biden Rails Against Arizona's Abortion Ban From Civil War Times: Trump Calls It A "States' Rights" Issue; Sen. Eva Burch (D-AZ) Discusses About Arizona Supreme Court's Ruling On Banning Abortion; Philadelphia Police Responding To Shooting In Large Crowd. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired April 10, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:01:07]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: An Arizona court's abortion decision igniting a five-alarm fire for Republicans, one that could cost them not just the White House but also control of Congress. So is there any way for the Republican Party or for Donald Trump to close Pandora's Box?

Plus, risking catastrophic failure, a whistleblower says that Boeing took shortcuts when manufacturing two versions of its Dreamliner jets and that the company needs to do better. Now the feds are investigating.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And we're tracking severe weather across the southern U.S. It's already caused damage in several towns, and that may just be the beginning.

We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: Just a short time ago, President Biden made his first public comments on the stunning Arizona ruling that revived a Civil War-era abortion bad. He says that if you don't like that law, elect me and not Donald Trump. The Arizona Supreme Court's move this week brings even more attention to an already hotly contested battleground state. Democrats have pounced on this ruling, putting the blame on former President Trump and framing this as an issue of individual freedoms.

The Republican message, it's been muddled, especially in Arizona. Trump-backed Senate candidate Kari Lake previously said this about the 1864 law less than two years ago. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARI LAKE, (R) U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE: I'm incredibly thrilled that we are going to have a great law that's already on the books. I believe it's ARS 13-3603, so it will prohibit abortion in Arizona except to save the life of a mother.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: Now, Lake says, "I oppose the ruling, and I'm calling on Katie Hobbs and the state legislature to come up with an immediate common sense solution that Arizonans can support."

Republican Congressman David Schweikert celebrated the reversal of Roe versus Wade. He co-sponsored a bill that would ban abortion nationwide at the moment of conception. But now look at this: "I do not support the ruling from the Arizona Supreme Court. This issue should be decided by Arizonans, not legislated from the bench."

And Republican Congressman Juan Ciscomani. He has said that he's proudly pro-life and that abortion policies should be set by the states. But now he's calling this abortion ban archaic, adding that "we must do better for women and I call on our state policymakers to immediately address this in a bipartisan manner."

A lot to discuss with CNN Senior Political Analyst Mark Preston.

Mark, it's as if the dog is chasing the car. He's caught the car and now doesn't know what to do. Republicans really opened a Pandora's Box with reversing Dobbs and it doesn't seem like they had a plan for situations like this.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No, they certainly didn't have a plan because they are getting what they wanted. They wanted the ability to restrict in many cases just flat out outlaw abortion and now it's being handed to them. But what they're realizing is that most of Americans don't want to see abortion outlawed.

In fact, if you look at some recent polling, you can see that the fact that it's about six in 10 Americans right now. And we're seeing this across multiple polls believe that abortion should be legal. And when you're going into this election, not just this Congressional election, but this presidential election, it's going to be one of the top issues.

SANCHEZ: There is a lack of consensus in the Republican Party about abortion restrictions and where they should land. And I think the most evident case is with Donald Trump. Set aside his history before even running for president when he said that he was pro choice to now where earlier this week after weeks of sort of hedging, he acknowledged that he believed that abortion should be up to the states.

[15:05:04]

Contrast that with Sen. Lindsey Graham, who is trying to court Trump's support in backing this 15 week abortion ban on a federal level. What do you make of this bouncing back and forth within the Republican Party? Do they need a consensus?

PRESTON: Well, they don't need a consensus in the fact that there are certainly parts of the country right now where abortion folks want to see abortion outlawed. That is for certain. I mean, we've seen it in states such as Mississippi, for instance. But we're also seeing in states such as Kansas and Kentucky. These are not Democratic states ... SANCHEZ: Right.

PRESTON: ... who both rejected measures that would outlaw abortion. We saw in Ohio, which again, is not a Democratic state, which also sided with abortion just a couple of years ago as well. The voters did.

So Republicans are certainly taking a page from Donald Trump's book. Say one thing a year or two ago, say something different now, because that's where the electorate is.

SANCHEZ: He did publicly chide Republicans who took firm stances on this issue, saying, let's focus on other things. Let's not get explicit in the details about abortion restrictions. Can Donald Trump win the White House without Arizona?

PRESTON: No. No. I mean, look, we saw this happen just three years ago. We saw Joe Biden only win Arizona by 11,000 votes. This is still a very conservative state. The fact of the matter is this is going to be one of the states, including Pennsylvania, Michigan, Georgia, that are all going to really decide who the next president of the United States is.

SANCHEZ: We played that sound from Kerry Lake. That is going to be one of the pivotal races to determine control of the Senate. Is there a broad path for Republicans to take control of the Senate if she loses?

PRESTON: It's very difficult because, again, you want to look in some of these states where Democrats are vulnerable, such as Montana, for instance. Is abortion going to be as potent in that state as it is in Arizona? I don't know. But the fact is, we do know heading into November that the Congress and the presidency is really going to show where we are as a country, incredibly divided.

SANCHEZ: Incredibly divided, even within parties.

Mark Preston, thank you so much for breaking that down for us. Brianna?

KEILAR: Our next guest is an Arizona state senator who last month revealed to her colleagues on the state chamber's floor her very personal decision to have an abortion. Eva Burch said the procedure was the safest and most appropriate option for her after learning her pregnancy was not viable, meaning the fetus had no chance of living. And it was a pregnancy that she very much wanted. Here's what she had to say after yesterday's ruling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. EVA BURCH (D-AZ): Somebody gave me a procedure so that I wouldn't have to experience another miscarriage, the pain, the mess, the discomfort. And now we're talking about whether or not we should put that doctor in jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Arizona state senator, Eva Burch, is with us now. And I do want to talk about the politics with you, but it's personal for you, not the least as well that you're also a nurse practitioner and this was a difficult process for you. As you put it, a pregnancy you very much wanted failing. I wonder if that had happened a month from now for you, what would you have done instead?

BURCH: Well, it's really hard to say. We're very much in flux right now and none of us can know with any amount of certainty what it's going to be like in Arizona a month from now. What we do know is that two years ago when Roe was overturned, abortion clinics shut down all across the state. And I had had a very similar situation happen at that time where I had a pregnancy that failed. This is the second time that I've had a procedural abortion because of a failed pregnancy. And it was only two weeks before Roe went down that I had that procedure.

Had it happened two weeks later, then I would have had to go out of state, that would have been the only option available to me.

KEILAR: The Attorney General here won't prosecute violators, that's been made clear. However, Planned Parenthood in Arizona is going to stop abortion services once this old law goes into effect here in 13 days. Because there could be future ramifications or local ramifications. Can Arizona lawmakers do anything to stop it from going into effect?

BURCH: They absolutely can. Not only can they now, but they should have quite some time ago. This has been available to us. We've been in session for months. We could have repealed this ban at any point in time, which really puts a little bit of a spin on it as we're seeing some of these Republican legislators backpedaling now saying that they don't think this is a good idea. They could have done something about this a long time ago.

When abortion clinics shut down all across the state of Arizona, they should have done something about it then. We have known that this ban is on the books. It's been well understood and it's been supported by a number of our Republican legislators openly. They're not even hiding it. So while I understand that yes, there are things we can do. We also have to acknowledge the fact that there are things we already should have done.

KEILAR: Some of them supported it and now they don't.

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I wonder what you think about some of your Republican colleagues who are now reversing themselves.

BURCH: I think that it is a transparent, politically expedient act of desperation, that they have realized that there are political consequences to their actions. But I really don't trust them. I don't believe them. I think that they are lying.

And the reason that I think that is because we have all the evidence that we need to know that they are going to continue to chip away and erode at these rights. They have been chipping away at reproductive health care for years in Arizona. We can look at their voting records and we know where they stand. We can look at their statements in the past and we know where they stand.

So if they want to play hero now and try to fix this problem now that it's become really a politically volatile situation for them, that's fine. But there's no reliability that that's going to stand. It's the people of Arizona who have to do something about this in November. The 15-week ban hinged on Roe which obviously is now defunct, that's why the Arizona Supreme Court said abortion law in the state now snaps back to this 1864-era ban.

Former President Trump, who's responsible for appointing the Supreme Court justices who overturned Roe, said this today about the Arizona decision when he was asked if the court went too far. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, did Arizona go too far? Did Arizona go too far?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, they did, and that'll be straightened out and as you know it's all about states' rights, that'll be straightened out and I'm sure that the governor and everybody else are going to bring it back into reason and that will be taken care of, I think very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So he said there, it's kind of tough to hear, he said, the court went too far and that the Arizona governor who, of course, is a Democrat, Katie Hobbs, will bring it to reason. What is your reaction to that?

BURCH: When you are the cause of the problem, you don't get to come back and say that now the Democrats should clean up your mess. So, of course, I'm not surprised that that's what we're hearing. But I know that in the future, they're going to continue, again, to chip away at these rights.

So I really think that it's the same scenario that we're looking at with these legislators in Arizona. They're backpedaling now because of the consequences, not because they understand that what they have done is wrong. Nobody is taking accountability for the fact that this is their mess. They are the ones who got us here in the first place and we have to hold them accountable to that.

You can't just say, oh, well, this was wrong. Let's fix it. You have to say, what I did was wrong. I made a mistake. How do we fix this? And that's not what's happening. There's no accountability right now at the state level or from the presidency or from the former president, rather. We really have to hold the people who got us here accountable for what they did.

KEILAR: Obviously, a lot in flux in Arizona and we appreciate you taking some time to speak with us today.

Arizona state senator, Eva Burch, thank you.

BURCH: Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: Let's go to Boris now with some breaking news. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Just into CNN, police in Philadelphia are responding to reports of a shooting at a large crowd in Philadelphia. This is live footage from a helicopter over the area. We have seen a large number of police vehicles spread out over different intersections, sizable police presence there. CNN's Athena Jones has been following this story.

Athena, so far, no word yet on injuries.

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. What you just said, Boris, is about what we know, what we have confirmed so far. There is, as you can see there on the ground, a large police presence there. We know that public transportation is also confirming that there's this activity going on.

We understand there was a shooting and a large crowd. But what we don't know is how many shooters were there, how many possible victims were there. We're not yet sure how many people may have been arrested, how many weapons may have been recovered. So there's still a lot of questions that we don't know the answer to. But we expect to learn more as time goes on.

Our own reporter, CNN's Danny Freeman, is heading to the location to find out more on the ground there in Philadelphia. But, of course, this is not good news ever to learn about a shooting of this sort. And we know that Philadelphia is like many other major cities having to deal with gun violence on a regular basis. This is the latest example of that.

But as of right now, awaiting more information from authorities as to what exactly went down at this now-reported shooting that police are investigating there in Philly, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Athena, please stand by and bring us more information when you get it.

We have former Boston Police commissioner Ed Davis with us as well.

Ed, I'm not sure if you've been able to see some of the images that we've been monitoring from the sky. It does not appear like there is an enormous urgency in the police response to this point. What do you gather from some of the images that you were seeing?

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ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, this is obviously a very serious incident on this holiday after Ramadan. It appears, from what I'm hearing, that there was an event in the park there. It also appears, from what I'm seeing, that it looks like it's under control. There is word that there are people arrested and that would coincide with what I'm seeing with the police response. They're present. They're processing a scene. But there's no active shooting from the looks of things right now. So as tragic as this is in such an important day, it looks like it's under control at this point in time.

KEILAR: Yes. And listen, it is Eid. It is the breaking of the fast marking the end of Ramadan and we see people wearing traditional dress in some of these pictures. We do not know if there is any connection, but there does appear that there was some gathering in the area related to the holiday. There are a lot of details that we don't know at this point, Ed.

Just tell us what you're seeing as you're looking at these pictures. We see so many cars. It is obviously at a very busy intersection there. As you see, it appears to be a commercial area and maybe as well a residential area.

DAVIS: Yes, I'm told it's a park that the event happened in and there were several hundred people in attendance. So when something this upsetting happens, they'll maintain a significant police presence there. But remember, the responsibility of the police when they arrive at a scene like this is to assist the injured. Arrest the suspect if that's possible and then process the crime scene.

Now, they also have to worry about just general upset among the people that are at the crowd - in the crowd. You have to treat them as victims, even if they've been psychologically affected by what's occurred. So there's a lot of assurance and responsibility on the police to make sure that people get out of there safely and are taken care of as best that we can after an incident like this.

But really, the responsibility of the police right now, secure their crime scene, grab all the evidence that you can, secure video from the area so that you can put a case together against who was ever responsible for this.

SANCHEZ: Ed, as you were describing investigators sort of combing through the scene, just from the view of the sky and where the police presence is, it looks like it's very broad, spanning several different intersections, several different corners of this part of Philadelphia. What's it like, especially early on in the process to start going through a sizable scene like this?

DAVIS: It's very difficult. And we've had scenes like that in the police departments. I've run - there are special considerations. First of all, it's a - it's an area that is covered with grass, so it's not as easy to find spent shell casings and things like that. So they'll most likely bring in ballistics dogs to run over the property to see what they can find that's hidden in the grass. They'll also use strategies like line searches.

So there's a significant number of offices there. They set them up on a line and methodically walk the property so that they've got everything that's on the ground and they don't miss anything.

And the other thing is sort of just keeping people out of the area, that's another challenge in an open area like that. You need to have a significant number of officers on the outside perimeter making sure that no one gets in and affects the crime scene. There's a lot to consider in this situation.

KEILAR: We were actually broadcasting the last time there was a shooting at a large event. Obviously, a much larger event than this in Kansas City. But these are events, Ed, that create specific complications. And quite frankly, I think we are sick of seeing this where people may be gathered and we're still looking for details on exactly how all of this happened.

But the idea that you could even just be going about your day or that you could be gathering for what is supposed to be a happy event. And this is something that might be happening there or nearby.

DAVIS: Correct. And that's going to be something that they're working through right now. There's a significant religious event and there's been a gunfire occurring in the middle of this event. Is this something that is driven by hatred or is there an incident from sort of nearby criminal activity that sort of spilled into the park when this event was occurring?

[15:20:00]

That's going to be a big question for the police right now to try to determine exactly what this is about. There is a lot of shooting activity in Philadelphia. West Philly is a tough area. And they have to kind of get witness statements, look at video, look at the evidence to determine what the motivation was behind this. That's going to be a big part of what they're doing this afternoon.

SANCHEZ: And we are working the phones right now with sources to try to get more answers as to the question of how this unfolded and what - where investigators are leaning. It's still not clear to this point that this was connected to the Ramadan event.

However, it very well could be and we will wait for the reporting to bear that out. Ed, I'm curious from your perspective, because Brianna mentioned the Super Bowl victory rally that was happening in downtown Kansas City, and we were broadcasting as that was unfolding. There have been significant steps taken in recent years to try to improve security at these so-called soft targets. I'm wondering if you can speak to that and if there are still areas where you think that as a country we could improve.

DAVIS: Absolutely. Brianna's right. There have been stepped up assignment of officers. You saw that in the last incident and the police department tries really hard to send the right number of people out to secure an event. The challenge is and having run Boston, a big city in the United States, there are multiple events every single day all around the city. And it's virtually impossible to send police to every single one of them.

So in a big event that's a rolling rally after a sports victory, you're going to have hundreds of officers. But in a small event that has maybe a couple of hundred people at it, you might get an area cruiser to sit there during the event, but it's not going to be heavily policed. And if this is one of the - it's hard to say what happened. In this particular case, there could have been officers right on scene. If there was an arrest that was made quickly, that could have been the case.

But you have to remember that there are church services every day of all denominations. Everyone has a level of threat that they're working with right now. And it's impossible for the police to cover everything.

KEILAR: As you mentioned, Ed, it is difficult. And this is the video we were just looking at that I'm glad just popped up again. We see police officers in a line. They are canvassing this park, walking through it very slowly. You'd mentioned, it's hard to find shell casings in the grass. Tell us a little bit about what they're doing here.

DAVIS: Well, they're doing - that's called the line search and oftentimes we'll go to the police academy and pull the recruits out of the academy to do those line searches over a very large area. But they're very carefully looking at every blade of grass, quite frankly, in their path to see if there's an abnormality there, something that might be evidence of a crime.

And so that's a very effective way to find any problems or any kind of vital pieces of information that you need to reenact and reconstruct the crime scene. So you're going to see this, that area is most likely exactly where the shooting took place. And that's the area where they'll be looking for spent shell casings, sometimes projectiles, pieces of clothing, any blood droplets, things like that.

Remember, DNA is a huge component of investigations now. So a lot of times suspects will injure themselves when they're firing a gun and you'll get DNA from both the suspect and the victim at a crime scene like this. So they're looking for all of that right now.

I do want to give our viewers an update on information that CNN has just learned. This is into CNN from John Miller and Mark Morales. According to officials, two victims were rushed by police to Penn Presbyterian Hospital with gunshot wounds. One of them is considered a possible suspect.

And an important detail in this reporting, police currently believe that the shooting was not connected to the Ramadan celebration. This is from law enforcement in Philadelphia. But obviously, it did affect that gathering, given that we've seen people scattered throughout the area.

We have Juliette Kayyem with us as well. Let's, yes, go to Juliette now, who is tracking this for us.

Your reaction, Juliette, to what you're seeing unfold and what we anticipate will soon come as officers canvass this scene.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So one is just make sure that everyone is fine and accounted for, family unification.

[15:25:00]

This is a - whether it was related to the Ramadan event or as - remember what we saw at the Super Bowl parade, there was something outside of the parade that made it seem like it was targeted towards the parade. If it's something on the perimeter, it's still going to have an impact on people who were not anticipating this. They were at the highest religious service for their faith and congregating.

So you want to make sure that family unification is done and that you get social services and other grief services or just therapy services into something that will be quite traumatic for the community. We are hearing reports that this had nothing to do with the Eid celebration. That's the end of Ramadan. I'm not sure how they know that now, but how they know that should come out pretty clearly in a press conference relatively soon.

And then just following up on what Ed was saying, if one of the suspects is also in custody, at least in medical custody now, we'll be able to find out a lot more about what the meaning of this was and why - and who, in fact, was the target.

I want to say there's a - this - for people in the community, this is going to be perceived, especially just given the atmospherics of the time with the war and everything going on in the Middle East, this will be perceived as targeted against them. So the quicker that officials can come out and make it clear this was just either a horrible coincidence or they were unrelated will be good for the community. There's lots of Eid celebrations around the country today and we want people who practice Islam to be able to practice safely.

KEILAR: Yes. No, it's such a good point and it is important to have that out there. We do have to point out, though, that the celebration very clearly affected by all of this, right? This was supposed to be a breaking of the fast Ramadan and now has been completely affected by this shooting nearby.

This is life, Juliette, that you can be having a perfectly lovely day, the end of a holiday season, just a nice day. The weather is pretty great here on parts of the East Coast right now. And it's shattered by something like this that it appears so random, and yet we can count on this. Here we are time and again ...

KAYYEM: Yes.

KEILAR: And this happens.

KAYYEM: Yes, we call it - I mean, now in sort of - I hate to say it, but mass violence literature and studies, people who are in the policy world. We call it the social consequences of gun violence. So we call a mass shooting someone who - a shooting in which four people are killed, not including the gunman. We have technical terms for all this stuff, right, how many people are dead, how much property is damaged.

But the social consequences are sort of immeasurable because they impact specific communities, in this case, a community of faith during - on the end of Ramadan, a city that does not want this reputation. So you'll - we will inevitably hear the mayor and others come out and talk about how safe it is. And then obviously the mental health issues and the impact it will have on people who were around or people who thought that they were celebrating.

These aspects aren't numbers, right? They're not - you can't say, well, there's four dead or 10 dead, it sounds casual to me. I don't mean it that way. It just means that these are the social consequences that we can't even get our head around anymore, because these are so common, as you said.

SANCHEZ: We do have some additional insight into how this unfolded. CNN's reporting is that police do not believe this was an active shooter situation, but rather an exchange of gunfire between two groups on the street. Police believe that an active shooter opened fire during that dispute, and that sent hordes of police to this area in Philadelphia, leading to two people being rushed to the hospital with gunshot wounds. One of them, according to officials, believed to be a possible suspect.

We're going to keep an eye on this situation. We're going to take a quick break and come back with the very latest right here on CNN.

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