Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Trump on Trial; Two Jurors in Trump's Hush Money Trial Removed; Jury Selection Underway; Trump Violated Gag Order 7 More Times; Interview with Representative Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL). Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired April 18, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Breaking news into CNN. And then there were five, two of the seven impanel jurors in the hush money trial of Former President Donald Trump have been excused. We're going to break down why and talk about what this means for the defense and prosecution moving forward.

Plus, from the trial to the trail, President Biden in Philly today receiving an endorsement from the family of one of his rivals, and we're not talking about just any family here. This is a political dynasty shunning one of their own. We're going to take you there live.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Let the chips fall where they may. Those words coming from House Speaker Mike Johnson with his job on the line in his conference in open conflict. He now says passing a Ukraine aid bill is worth the political risk. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to "CNN News Central."

SANCHEZ: It is day three of jury selection in Donald Trump's historic hush money trial, and it's been full of twists and turns. When we started the day, seven jurors had been in panel, but now, that number's back down to five. Two jurors were dismissed, one because she expressed concerns over identifying information that had been made public Another after prosecutors argued that he gave deceptive answers earlier this week.

So, 13 more spots still need to be filled. And now, nine prospective jurors are in the mix, answering the judge's questionnaire. CNN Chief Legal Analyst and Anchor Laura Coates is outside the courthouse for us in Manhattan. Laura, bring us up to speed with the twists and turns we've watched unfold today.

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: It has been quite the day. We began the day with seven jurors sitting, only having to get now 11 more to get that coveted 18 where you'd have 12 regular jurors and then six alternates who would not know their identity as an alternate to the end of the trial evidence. But now, we've already lost two. I want to bring in Kara Scannell here.

Kara, First, we had somebody who called in and said, listen, I believe that my anonymity has been compromised and she could no longer be impartial. She was excused. Then a second juror was excused this afternoon. What happened there?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, this was a juror that the prosecution had started looking into his background and had uncovered -- they believed it was him, they wanted to clarify this, but they believe that he had been arrested in the 1990s for tearing down campaign -- political signs, tearing down campaign signs. And it was a cause that they raised as concern because one of the questions on the questionnaire had asked if you had essentially ever been accused of a crime or arrested of a crime, and he had said no. So, they wanted to inquire further about that.

It took a little while to get him here. Misunderstanding about when he was supposed to show up, and then he was questioned at the bench, outside of the -- we could not hear it as the press. It is going to remain sealed. But there was a questioning at the bench between the judge, the prosecutors, and Trump's attorney.

Now, at one point, there was some laughter in his response to one of the questions. He was then removed from the courtroom. The attorneys discussed it, and they decided that they would excuse him from the case. So, now, we're back to five, and back to business to try to go through these prospective jurors who are here today answering questions.

COATES: And it also tells me that at some point, the idea of just having six alternate jurors, from whenever you do have that initial 12, that number might have to expand as more details might be uncovered through the course of the trial. There's not really a finite period of time when that's it, you can no longer look into the into the jurors at all. That might be an ongoing issue in this case.

SCANNELL: I mean, we've seen that they've been doing some pretty quick digging into these --

COATES: Social media, for example.

SCANNELL: Right. Trump's team identified a couple social media posts before any jurors were seated, and in fact, the judge agreed that they should be excused for cause because of some posts that they made, you know, as far back as eight years ago.

The prosecution had started looking into the jurors after learning how they were seated. And once they were seated and uncovered this, you know, questionable answer. And so, that juror was excused. So, the process is working. It's just, as you're saying, it's a question of how quickly do we get this jury and how much time do they have before the case gets underway if -- for them to uncover anything that could potentially be problematic.

But, you know, they now have 18 jurors in the box and those jurors will then be questioned by the attorneys. 30 minutes for the prosecution, 30 minutes for Trump's lawyers.

[13:05:00] COATES: And then strikes could possibly happen.

SCANNELL: Right. And so, what we saw the other day, after that questioning, we saw that then some of the -- Trump's attorneys had raised some questions about some of these past posts, and it was explored. And then, those jurors were struck by the judge, and then it was the attorneys turn to strike whoever they wanted for, essentially, any reason, and they would be excused.

Now, we know that both sides only have four strikes left. So, they cannot use them as liberally in these rounds, which will put more of the onus on them looking for reasons for cause if they have some concern about any of these jurors. And it could mean that we could move pretty quickly.

I mean, the court is getting break for lunch. So, all of that will happen once we return from the lunch break. But there is now at least 18 jurors in the box to begin this second important round of getting to seat, if we can fill the seats. We thought we only needed 11. Now we need 13.

COATES: You know, Boris, it's so important because these strikes that they've already used, you don't get them back because jurors now have not been seated. And these were jurors who have been removed that were essentially the compromise of both the prosecution and the defense. And so, now, that compromise is gone. Somebody that they thought was palatable to both now out times two, dropping it down to five. It could be a lot longer.

SANCHEZ: Yes, and we were impressed by how quickly things were moving along. It seems like we've might've hit a road bump here. Laura Coates, Kara Scannell from outside the courthouse in Manhattan, thank you so much. We'll be checking in throughout the day. Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Let's bring in Former Trump White House counsel, CNN legal commentator Jim Schultz. Jim, great to have you here with us. I just want to get your reaction first to now two jurors having been excused in this. What should we make of that?

JAMES SCHULTZ, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: Look, this is part of the process, right? There's going to be tremendous scrutiny by both sides looking at these potential jurors. And there are going to be issues that come up. And the judge and the lawyers are dealing with it in the normal course like they do, right?

You had -- you heard that there was a little bit of a chuckle at the bench with the potential juror and the lawyers related to it. There was an issue years ago with stealing yard signs. That only brings in political implications and maybe where that person stands politically and what their political views are, but also potential crime that -- or accused of a crime at that point in time.

So, I think these are all normal issues we're going to see. They could blow through these pretty quickly today just like they did the other day and get to that magic number, 18. But they have a little more work to do. There's two less jurors. DEAN: Yes. It's just going to take some time. I'm also curious your thoughts, because one of these jurors was dismissed because they felt too much personal information about them had been released. And you know, we look at the Georgia grand jury, some of the members of that grand jury did receive threats later on after their information was revealed. Should we worry about the safety of this jury?

SCHULTZ: Look, anytime you're in any criminal prosecution, there's always that kind of understanding that there's some danger associated with that from time to time, especially in high-profile cases where there are issues like this. And especially in this world of social media where people are getting attacked on social media.

It's really important to keep the identities of these folks anonymous, if you will. And I think the judge even said to the news media, let's not release the identities, right? Let's make sure we're not doing that.

DEAN: Right. And you said this morning that Trump's post about "liberal activists lying to try to get on the jury violates the gag order that's in place." That second juror was dismissed after prosecutors said he gave deceptive answers. Does that give Trump some fodder? I would imagine we're going to hear more about that.

SCHULTZ: Look, anytime you have that door opened, that there's any question about, you know, the process here and whether politics are at play and whether we're getting all the information, Donald Trump's going to seize that moment every day and he's going to do it all day, every day. I don't -- I think the gag order is there. I think Donald Trump's going to violate it day in and day out and probably get admonished by the court day in and day out on those issues.

I mean, you already see Michael Cohen tweeting away on these issues and he's a witness in the case. You don't think Donald Trump's going to respond to Michael Cohen on those? He's going to do it every single time.

DEAN: Yes, and you mentioned the gag order. He's violated it at least seven times now. There's a hearing on it next week. What are you expecting? Do you think it will become -- that they will broaden out this gag order? What do you think might happen next in regards to that?

SCHULTZ: I think the judge's options are -- there are a ton of options. One of which he can, you know, threaten to jail the defendant in this case, the former president. That's never going to happen. He's not going to put him in jail. So, you know, it's really a monetary fine, admonishment. There's not a whole lot of teeth associated with that.

[13:10:00]

And unless the former president really, like, violates it in a way -- not just responding to Michael Cohen, but if he's going after jurors in an aggressive way, if he's going after witnesses in intimidating way, I think that's when you'll see the judge really ramp it up. DEAN: And so, of today's 96 prospective jurors, half of them were dismissed because they said they could not be fair, could not be impartial. If you're Trump's defense team, what does this mean for you? And obviously, they've got this in the back of their head. But how are you proceeding forward kind of knowing that is the case?

SCHULTZ: Look, you have to -- I mean, you take your jury pool as you find them and do the best you can to find folks that meet a profile that you're looking for, right? We talked the other day -- the other night about -- on Laura's show, on which jurors were the most interesting. I found the person who came from Ireland, grew up in Ireland, blue collar type worker, some college education, in a sales job, watches MSNBC and Fox. That's kind of like your swing juror, or in election terms, your swing voter. Those are the folks that you -- as lawyers, you're looking at and saying, how are they reacting to what we're saying?

So, this is very important. You know, it is New York. Obviously, there's going to be a big chunk of people who are not fans of Donald Trump. But at the same time, you know, people come in. And what I've found over the years, juries typically, regardless of what their political views are, they look at fairness and fundamental fairness. And that's the most important part of this process.

DEAN: Right. Try to take in the facts and the arguments. All right. Jim Schultz, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

SCHULTZ: Thank you.

DEAN: Boris.

SANCHEZ: We are just moments away from a significant moment in the 2024 campaign. President Biden receiving an endorsement from one of America's most storied political dynasties, the Kennedys. The Biden campaign says more than a dozen members of the extended family are going to be appearing with the president shortly, and they're backing Biden, even though one of their own is running for president.

Robert Kennedy Jr. is polling better than all the other third-party candidates. And the Democratic National Committee is concerned that Kennedy might play the role of spoiler, taking enough votes away from Biden to give Donald Trump the win and the White House come November. CNN White House correspondent Arlette Saenz is at the Biden Kennedy event in Philadelphia. Arlette, give us a preview.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, any minute now we anticipate President Biden will walk out on stage behind me with several members of the Kennedy family as more than a dozen Kennedy family members are expected to endorse his candidacy today.

It comes as President Biden is really trying to harness the legacies of one of the most storied political families in democratic politics, but it also comes, as you mentioned, as Robert F. Kennedy Jr., one of the members of the Kennedy family, is running as that independent candidate. And potentially, there are concerns that his candidacy, a third-party candidacy, could potentially act as a spoiler heading into November's election.

Now, the president will be introduced today by Kerry Kennedy. That is the sister of RFK Jr. And she's expected to talk about how she believes President Biden really carries on the legacy of her father, Robert F. Kennedy, and also Former President John F. Kennedy, and she's expected to talk about the threat that they believe Donald Trump poses in this election.

It's unclear whether she'll actually mention her brother, RFK Jr., by name, but our colleague Wolf Blitzer spoke to her a little bit about that earlier today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Should you be trying to convince your own brother to drop out so he doesn't necessarily jeopardize your candidate, President Biden?

KERRY KENNEDY, ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.'S SISTER: Well, words, you know, we have a big family and we have a lot of discussions. But the thing today is not about my brother Bobby. Today it's about America. It's about freedom. It's about democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, several members of the Kennedy family in recent months have tried to portray Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s candidacy as dangerous. So, it's not entirely a surprise that they would be out here endorsing Biden today, but of course it is significant since their own family member is in this race.

Now, RFK Jr. tried to downplay this endorsement today. He's said a statement, "I hear some of my family will be endorsing President Biden today. I am pleased they are politically active. It's a family tradition. We are divided in our opinions, but united in our love for each other."

Now, RFK Jr. did get some welcome news today in the State of Michigan, as the secretary of state there said that he would qualify for the ballot in November. That's the first battleground state where we've learned that Kennedy will appear on the ballot in November.

Now, after this event here in Philadelphia, President Biden and members of the Kennedy family will go on to another organizing event where he will be introduced by Joe Kennedy III, they're expected to make phone calls and knock-on doors on behalf of President Biden as they've made clear that they want to do everything they can to try to elect him come November.

[13:15:00]

SANCHEZ: Arlette Saenz. Thank you so much for the update from Philadelphia.

Let's talk more about Kennedy's impact on 2024 with Larry Sabato. He's the director of UVA Centers -- of the UVA Center for Politics. Larry, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us. Put this endorsement into context. Does this dissuade some RFK leaning voters toward Biden?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR OF CENTER OF POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Well, it may be the start of that, Boris. You know, it's April, and I think the Kennedy family is making a very significant move here, something that is uncharacteristic of the Kennedys politically over many generations. They've always been very clannish. They have their private disagreements, but they come out with a united front, particularly with regard to candidacies coming from within the family.

But it's very clear that a large majority of the prominent Kennedys who are still active in public life, in some fashion, feel very strongly that Biden should win, but also, that their brother represents a real threat, and he does, via the electoral college to Biden's second term.

So, what they're doing is significant. They're going to have to do it again and again and again in various ways between now and November, because it's hard to reach people. And remember one of RFK Jr.'s big appeals seems to be to young people. And I can tell you living in the middle of a college campus, there is a lot of appeal for RFK Jr. In part, I think, because they have absolutely no idea where he stands on anything.

It's simply a famous name. It's glitz. It's star power. And they're unhappy with both Biden and Trump. They're not going to vote for Trump, the vast majority of them, but their disillusion with Biden may be because of Gaza and there are other reasons besides. So, this is a real threat to the Biden candidacy, and they're taking it that way.

SANCHEZ: I want to dig into that idea that a lot of folks support him, even though they don't really know his policies all that well, but I did want to ask you about the news that Arlette just brought us that Kennedy secured his name on the ballot in Michigan.

When you look at the electoral map, I think there are a few states that could have quite the impact that Michigan can have. It sounds like you see him more likely spoiling things for Joe Biden than you do him potentially playing any role in taking voters away from Donald Trump in a significant number.

SABATO: Absolutely. Look, there are a handful of anti-vaxxers who may be disillusioned with Trump. You know, the Trump family were first in line for the vaccine. But they may be for Kennedy. But the vast majority of Trump voters are much less inclined to vote for RFK Jr., particularly after they learn about some of his other views, than are our Democrats, particularly minority Democrats and young, young people in the Democratic Party.

And without a large percentage of the youth vote and a very large percentage of the minority vote, I don't think Biden can win. You mentioned Michigan, he could easily be on the ballot and seems to be moving in that direction in Arizona, in Nevada, and in a number of other swing states, there are only seven or eight of them, really. If he's just on the swing state ballots, he may well get enough votes to deny Biden a second term. This is serious business. And it's interesting to see that the Kennedys early on have recognized this.

SANCHEZ: Yes, Larry, we have to leave the conversation there. We appreciate you joining us. I do want to remind our viewers about your book on the Kennedy family, "The Kennedy Half-Century: The Presidency, Assassination, and Lasting Legacy of John F. Kennedy." Larry, thanks for being with us.

SABATO: Thank you, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Of course. Still ahead this hour on "CNN News Central," not only that big endorsement coming from the Kennedy family, but also drama on Capitol Hill. House Speaker Mike Johnson facing growing threats to his leadership as some Republicans have devised a plan to save his job. What they're urging him to do and how it could put in jeopardy those foreign aid bills that he's trying to pass this weekend.

Plus, officials say they know what caused 911 services to go out in several states. This was a huge story last night. The big mistake that they claim triggered all of this.

And we're following every development in Donald Trump's criminal trial. We have reporters inside and outside of the courtroom. The latest on jury selection. Some drama in the courtroom, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:00]

DEAN: A tense exchange on Capitol Hill as threats escalate against Mike Johnson's job as House Speaker. We're learning GOP hardliners surrounded Johnson on the chamber floor, essentially pitting him against a wall. All of it playing out as Johnson's foreign aid bills face a critical test.

Today, the House Rules Committee is weighing whether to bring that package to the floor for a vote. Johnson says he's moving forward with his plans to put a series of aid bills on the floor Saturday, and that does include $61 billion for Ukraine.

He then plans to tie them together in one big package and send that over to the Senate for final approval. But that is not sitting well with a number of far-right Republicans who are threatening to boot him over their opposition to sending more aid to Ukraine. Let's go to Capitol Hill now with CNN's Lauren Fox.

Lauren, this continues to develop really by the minute today. What's the latest right now?

[13:25:00]

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, all eyes are on that very important House Rules Committee meeting. This is typically the first step, Jessica, and it usually doesn't get that much attention because it's not typically this controversial. But in this Congress, with this Republican majority, the rules and what happens to them are very important here. And that is because there are a number of Republicans on that committee who have already said that they will not support the rule moving forward. That means the Democrats are going to have to help in some way if this package is going to advance.

Now, Democrats have made clear that they do view this Ukraine package, Israel package, Taiwan package as essential to not just the U.S., but global security, and that they want to take some steps. But precisely what that looks like still has yet to unfold.

Meanwhile, there are also questions on whether or not changes to what is known as the motion to vacate. That is the step to try to oust the speaker, whether there will be changes to how many Republicans specifically are able to bring that to the floor.

Right now, it just takes a single member. Could that change? That is something we are also keeping an eye on in the Rules Committee, and that could have an impact on Johnson's future. That's because there are a number of hardliners who, when they surrounded Johnson on the floor, made clear to him that that could be a difference maker when it comes to whether or not they would vote to try to get him out of the job. Here's what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): My hope was that the motion of vacate would be an elixir that only required one dose for effectiveness. But sometimes there are some therapies that require more than one dose. And I hope that's not the case with the motion of vacate. But we'll administer the elixir as many times as is necessary to save the country.

REP. LAUREN BOEBERT (R-CO): Changing the threshold for the motion of vacate, that's been my red line this entire Congress. I told him there's nothing that will get you to a motion to vacate faster than changing the threshold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And once again, if there is an effort to try to oust Johnson, all eyes are going to be on Democrats. That is because they would likely be needed to save him, Jessica. Obviously, that complicates Johnson's future, it complicates whether or not he could remain an effective Republican speaker, especially in an election year with the majority at stake. All these questions have yet to unfold. Jessica.

DEAN: Yes. Much more to come on this. Lauren Fox with the absolute latest, thanks so much. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss further now with Democratic Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi of Illinois. He serves on the House Intelligence Committee. Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.

Following the caucus meeting that Democrats had this morning, would you say that there's a more cohesive strategy for how your party is going to approach the effort to potentially vacate Speaker Johnson?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): No, I wouldn't say that. I would say that there's a lot of support for the underlying bills. I think those are vital, whether it's the Ukraine legislation or a legislation for Indo-Pacific defenses, or even the legislation containing a bill that I co-authored with regard to TikTok.

With regard to Mr. Johnson, he hopefully will do the right thing, bring these to the floor, bring them for a vote successfully, and I think he'll be in good shape.

SANCHEZ: Well, Congressman, doing the right thing in your eyes could cost him his job, and he would need help from Democrats like you to keep his job. So, are you willing to put it out there that you would back him if that motion to vacate moves forward?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: If these bills were delivered favorably and the aid was favorably voted upon, and Marjorie Taylor Greene went up there with a motion to remove him, for instance, I think there's going to be a lot of Democrats that move to kill that motion. They don't want to see him getting punished for doing the right thing.

As someone said the other day, this is a Chamberlain or Churchill moment, and if he ends up being the Churchill and stands up to aggressors around the world, I think he'll be rewarded.

SANCHEZ: He has been lobbied by members of his own party to include in this package of foreign aid bills, language that would change the structure of the motion to vacate, the threshold to make it harder to remove him. He seems open to it. From the sounds of it, some Republicans are wanting to vacate him for that. Would a change to the rules at all prevent you from voting for the aid package?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: No, not necessarily. But I want to see what the rules package is. I think they're literally deliberating as we speak. And again, I think the underlying bills need to be brought to the floor for a vote and consideration.