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Trump in Court for Day Four; Trump Slams Trial; Foreign Aid Bills Head to House Floor; Brittany Spanos is Interviewed about the Swift Release. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired April 19, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:30:03]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Just moments ago we saw a very frustrated Donald Trump railing against the gag order on him just before he entered the courtroom in his New York criminal trial. He is also fuming that he's having to be in the courtroom and not on the campaign trail. A full jury of 12, seven men, five women, plus one alternate, have been seated. There are more alternates to go. If all the remaining alternates are picked today, opening statements could begin on Monday.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is outside of the courthouse.

I - we just saw Donald Trump as he walked into court. He's made statements before, but these were a lot longer. We didn't hear him yesterday. He has really tried to go after the judge about this gag order.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I mean one of the things he said was that he should be able to be allowed to talk to reporters, of course while he was standing at the cameras talking to reporters, which is a little bit of irony there. Donald Trump just seeking to really play out this gag order as a way that the judge is stifling him.

Now, of course, as we have noted, Donald Trump's gag order is actually fairly lenient. He is not allowed to comment about the jurors or the witnesses or the families of court staff. But he is allowed to comment on the judge. Now, the prosecution has said that his various posts on social media, where he reposted articles about various witnesses, including Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels, that that was a violation of the gag order. Of course now the judge will decide whether or not to hold Donald Trump in contempt, whether or not to fine him for these various posts. A lot of that up in the air.

But part of this also is exactly what you noted, which is that he doesn't want to be sitting in this courtroom. The novelty here is really wearing off quickly for Donald Trump. He doesn't like to be sitting in a room for eight hours a day, or however long he has been, essentially having to listen, having to not engage or participate. And part of it that he was listening to yesterday was jurors over and over again saying that they didn't like his policies. One person saying they didn't like his persona, calling him self-centered. This is not a place that he wants to be.

But I do want to point out one thing here, his idea or his statement that he would rather be campaigning over the course of this campaign, it has been very rare that Donald Trump has done more than two campaign events in a week. Right now he is able to have three days where he could theoretically be campaigning, Wednesdays, Saturdays, and Sundays. I will note, this first week of trial, he did not travel on Wednesday. He did not go to a campaign event.

Now, tomorrow he is headed to North Carolina for both a fundraiser and a rally. But again, nothing on Sunday, as well as so far nothing on his schedule next week. He's saying that he wants to be out there campaigning, but even on the days off, he is not packing his scheduled to the gills. It's not somebody who has been hitting the campaign trail, even as hard as Joe Biden has, or during primary season as hard as his GOP rivals did. So, this idea that he would rather be on a campaign trail, or this is stopping him from being on the campaign trail, seems a little suspect given the schedule that we've already seen him hold.

SIDNER: Kristen Holmes, thank you so much. I know that he is now in the courtroom with the attorneys. And we will see what happens next. Appreciate you.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And joining us right now is CNN's senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Elie Honig.

So, Elie, one thing that Donald Trump went deep on in terms of railing against when he spoke before he went in was on the gag order. How big of a problem is this gag order for Donald Trump and how close and how over the line he's already gone?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Kate, he's gone way over the line. He's now being accused by the DA of violating the gag order ten separate times. And I have to tell you, I've never seen an example of a defendant violated a gag order so many times so flagrantly.

Now, the problem is, the consequences may not hit him that hard. There's going to be a hearing next week on Tuesday and all the judge can do is either fine him to a max, according to the DA, of $1,000 per infraction, he's not going to care at all about that. He'd gladly pay $1,000 per Truth Social to lash out at Michael Cohen and other witnesses, or imprison Donald Trump for up to 30 days. But I think Donald Trump has done the calculation, probably correctly, that there's just no way this judge is going to lock Donald Trump up for violating the gag order. Certainly not at this point.

So, it's a problem for trial management. It's a problem for the judge. And it could become an increasing problem for Donald Trump himself.

BOLDUAN: Elie, from just watching how Donald Trump was in speaking to reporters before he went in, I mean he was - he was definitely at least projecting that he was angry and frustrated, if he wasn't actually angry and frustrated. If you're a prosecutor and you're watching as he did - watching him act the way he did this morning, I don't know, what do you think? Do you think you're already winning?

HONIG: So, he definitely looked frazzled. I think that's a good word we can use for this. If he's frazzled now, just wait until week three, because I think what Donald Trump is learning is that it is enormously stressful to be on trial.

[09:35:04]

I've never even had, of course, the experience of being the defendant. I've just done it as a lawyer. It's incredibly stressful. It's long days. It's excruciating. It can be boring. We saw him nodding off during jury selection. And it will get to him. And I think if I'm the prosecutor, you know, I'm not so into the head games and the psychology of it all, but I do think I would see someone who's perhaps fraying a bit at the edges. And, who knows, that may lead to poor strategic decisions by Donald Trump or other behavior that could be self-destructive.

BOLDUAN: So, the focus today is in picking alternates. How - talk to me about how it's decided and what it means and how many alternatives they pick and why the alternates are needed.

HONIG: So, there already is one alternate who's been selected, and they can select up to five more for a total of six. You need some alternates in every trial. In a routine trial you'd probably have about two alternative. Here I think they're wise to use the maximum number of six. I don't think it's likely they're going to actually burn through all six alternates, but you need them as a safety net because it happens that you lose jurors during the trial.

Now, ordinarily, there's all the things that can sideline anyone. Someone could get COVID, for example, someone could have a family emergency, that kind of thing, in which case you need to swap in an alternate. But this case, to me, has the highest likelihood of needing to go through at least some of those alternates of any case ever. I mean just yesterday we saw two of the jurors who were seated knocked off because, in this case, the publicity is going to be through the roof. Donald Trump has been violating the gag order. Nothing to say he won't continue to do that. And some of these jurors might come to a point where one of the jurors got to yesterday of just being uncomfortable with the attention from that person's acquaintances based on that person's acquaintances figuring out who she was.

So, I think it will be a smart move here to fill all six alternate spots. I suspect they'll use some of them during the course of the trial.

BOLDUAN: All right, let's see what happens today. Thanks, Elie.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: That was a great discussion. Overnight, Democrats bailed out House Speaker Mike Johnson in a move - to move the bill on aid to Ukraine. Will they bail him out again when it comes to saving his job? If it comes to that? We could find out today.

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[09:41:41]

BERMAN: This morning, House Speaker Mike Johnson faces a new hurdle to pass aid to Ukraine and Israel. Overnight, he needed Democrats to bail him out in the Rules Committee and he will almost definitely need Democrats again today on the House floor. The conservative House Freedom Caucus put out a statement saying, quote, "we must kill the rule."

Let's get right to Lauren Fox.

Look, he may need Democrats to help him keep his job over the next few days, Lauren.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, exactly, John. He is relying on Democrats at every step to get this aid package passed through the House of Representatives. And, you know, this has been months in the making. And for months the administration, Senate Democrats, Senate Republican leadership have been urging Mike Johnson to take action on this. This morning, the Biden administration issuing a new statement urging support on this piece of legislation in order to advance it. That, obviously, sending a message to House Democrats to go ahead and help in whatever way they need to on the floor.

This morning, the House is going to put forward this rule vote. This is typically a procedural vote that the majority gets across the finish line. That is in order to start debate on the underlying bill. You saw last night in committee that Democrats were needed there. We expect Democrats are going to be needed once again.

But this is all culminating and a question about Speaker Mike Johnson's leadership. What is his future in the House? He had an opportunity yesterday to potentially try to include in this rules package a change to how many people it would take to try and bring a motion to vacate the speakership. Right now that only takes one. There was a question, some of his Republican colleagues were urging him and to change that threshold to really neutralize the sum of those loud voices on Capitol Hill, like Marjorie Taylor Greene, who have been holding over the speaker this threat that she could try to oust him at any moment. When the Democrats help with this rule today, we will wait and see whether or not Marjorie Taylor Greene takes any action to try and oust the speaker.

Again, there are growing calls and frustration with the speaker as he is certainly going to need Democrats to get this bill through. And given the fact that this legislation, even though it is divided into several pieces, looks so similar to what the Senate passed months ago.

John. BERMAN: So, in theory, as soon as today, Marjorie Taylor Greene, or anyone, could put the motion to vacate, which is the means by which you kick out a House speaker, could put that on the floor? That could happen today? Which way is the wind blowing on that? Does it seem likely at this point?

FOX: Well, John, I mean she could. Now, the reality is that leadership would then have two days to actually take action. It's a privileged resolution, which means she can bring it forward and this force this effort, but it doesn't have to happen immediately. And we should note that the first vote would be a motion to table. I know this is getting into the weeds, but it's important because that distinction could mean that Democrats may be comfortable doing something to kill that on the floor. There were already two Democrats saying that if Johnson does the right thing, meaning bringing forward this Ukraine package, which he has done to this point, they would be willing to help him in that vote.

Of course, the larger question, John, is, how do you remain a Republican speaker if you have Democrats helping you at every single turn?

[09:45:03]

Does that make it very difficult to do your job, especially in an election year where you are sort of leading the party and making the case that you deserve the majority next cycle.

John.

BERMAN: All right, it will be a big day up there. You are there for it. Lauren Fox, thanks so much for being with us.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, only Taylor Swift could one up Taylor Swift. She doesn't just drop one album, but she's got two for fans this morning. Taylor's got some collabs and some harsh words for a celebrity in her songs. More after the break. But here's a little taste of her new album.

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TAYLOR SWIFT, MUSICIAN (singing): You left your typewriter at my apartment straight from the tortured poet's department. I think some things I never say, like who uses typewriters anyway. But you're -

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[09:50:18]

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TAYLOR SWIFT, MUSICIAN (singing): The party like a record scratch as I scream, who's afraid of little old me. I was (INAUDIBLE) by his channel till the circus lies made me mean.

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SIDNER: Are you ready for it? That's a little taste. Taylor Swift has just released two albums, not just one, surprising fans. She released her highly anticipated 11th album, "The Tortured Poets Department" at midnight. Then, just two hours later, overnight, 2:00 in the morning, she dropped a surprise second album with another 15 songs, which she titled "The Tortured Poets Department: The Anthology."

Let's get right into it with Brittany Spanos, a staff writer for "The Rolling Stone."

Brittany, what - I'm assuming the biggest surprise was this second album nobody knew was coming?

BRITTANY SPANOS, STAFF WRITER, "ROLLING STONE": Yes, I mean, she did something similar with "Midnights," but I don't think people anticipated that she would do it again, and also with so many more songs than she did with the "Midnights" 3:00 a.m. addition. It was definitely a major, major shock when I woke up, you know, to see that there was an extra 15 songs to what she'd already released.

SIDNER: So that begs the question, did you get chance to listen to all, I think, 31 songs. And if you did, what - what stands out to you? How is this album different?

SPANOS: Yes, I mean, it is sort of like a - in the way that "Evermore" was a little bit of a darker turn than folklore. It feels like this is kind of a darker kind of - kind of pairing to "Midnights" in a way. There is sort of the synth pop element of the album that was released at midnight, the one that everyone was anticipating that has Post Malone and Florence The Machine on it. It's a very sort of like dark, breakupy, synth pop album. But then the second half, the side b of it, is such like a Erin Desner (ph), folky (ph), indy moment from her that kind of harks back to a lot of the music she released in 2020. See, I got to spend some time with it and it's just really kind of a massive work.

SIDNER: You get two genres for the price of one, it sounds like at this point in time.

SPANOS: Yes.

SIDNER: I am curious, the fans are already talking about this. They're already dissecting, as they do. The Swifties are looking at this and there's a couple of curious songs that seem to speak to a feud between Taylor Swift and a celebrity. What can you tell us about that? Usually it's about ex-boyfriends. This time there's someone else in the crosshairs.

SPANOS: Yes, there's a song on the surprise side b that came out to 2:00 a.m. called thank you, Amy. And the way that it's styled and titled has the letters K-I-M capitalized and the rest lowercase. It's a pretty obvious moment from Taylor in a way that she sometimes is, but usually - she usually isn't that direct. But, yes, I mean for her to kind of directly call out, I'm assuming, Kim Kardashian. I can't think of any other Kims that she would be in a - in a feud with, an ongoing feud with. It's pretty striking and pretty surprising that this was on the album, but, yes, it seems to go back to all of the Kim Ye feud in 2016 that her and Kanye and Kim were all involved in.

SIDNER: I'm curious what - how this album is going to be seen. In other words, what the expectation is for sales because she is an economic juggernaut when it comes to this. She's just, you know, finishing her Eras Tour and now these double - this double album coming out. What's the expectation?

SPANOS: I think the expectations are for something that's going to be extremely, extremely record-breaking. I mean there's very few other releases happening today. It seems like a lot of people moved their own album and single releases. They were anticipating this from other artists. And its going to be a big, big week for her. Both in physical sales and digital sales with, you know, obviously, all these extra songs that are going to be available on even the physical releases.

Brittany Spanos, we're looking at the Eras Tour. Oh, now we're back to the new album.

Thank you so much for going through that for us and staying up late to listen to all 31 song. Its' quite a feat this morning.

This one over here is jumping up and down.

BOLDUAN: I mean, I know exactly with my two girls -

SIDNER: Yes.

BOLDUAN: I mean I know exactly what I'm going to be doing the moment they get home from school. Like, we are going to go through this entire thing with hilarious reviews from a six-year-old and a nine- year-old.

SIDNER: I want to hear the reviews.

BERMAN: I do think that in the spirit of Taylor Swift releasing this surprise second album, we should do a surprise second three hours of the show today.

SIDNER: Well, I'll leave that to you.

BOLDUAN: That's what everyone never needed. We're with you for six hours.

SIDNER: Yes.

BERMAN: We're dropping an extra three hours.

[09:55:00]

SIDNER: Nobody wants that.

BERMAN: Of CNN NEWS CENTRAL right now. BOLDUAN: Please, dear God, no.

Thank you for joining us. Run before - actually, we will run. You stay here.

SIDNER: Correct.

BOLDUAN: This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

CNN NEWSROOM with Jim Acosta is up next.

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