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Trump Meets with DeSantis; Awaiting Judge's Ruling on Gag Order; Sift Debuts at Number One. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired April 29, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Primary with both men lobbing pretty, you know, vitriolic attacks at one another.

However, it makes a lot of sense for them to move forward and have a smoother relationship. For Donald Trump he is someone who is significantly lagging in the money game against Joe Biden. And he recognizes that Ron DeSantis has really good relationships with a lot of big donors, a lot of donors with deep pockets really I should say. And DeSantis agreed during that meeting yesterday that he would help Donald Trump with fundraising.

For DeSantis' part, a lot of people close to the Florida governor recognize that this chilled relationship with Donald Trump is untenable. For them to be feuding and to continue fighting, we've heard DeSantis, you know, criticizing the former president behind closed doors, that's not really good for him either. Donald Trump is the presumptive Republican nominee. He could very well be president. And so I think they both recognize that they need to have a better relationship.

At the same time, however, this isn't really a kumbaya. I don't think you should expect them to be very close. But this is a step in the right direction, that both sides see as necessary to both of their political careers.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's good to see you, Alyana. Thank you so much.

Sounds like our friendship, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

TREENE: Thank you.

BERMAN: People who watch Saturday night.

BOLDUAN: A-oh.

BERMAN: Anyway, but I move on.

Joining us now, CNN's senior political commentator and former special assistant to President George W. Bush, Scott Jennings, who was there and witnessed it all. Also, CNN political commentator and former White House -

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I was there. I saw it all.

BERMAN: White House senior policy adviser Ashley Allison.

I just want to quickly touch on - so, Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump got together, spent some time together. No cameras, which is interesting. They wanted to be in private.

You know who hasn't spoken yet? Nikki Haley and Donald Trump, as far as we know. How important is it for Donald Trump? How is it - important is it for Donald Trump to have Nikki Haley back in the fold? Is it even possible, Scott?

JENNINGS: Well, I think the way she ran her race and the kinds of people she was attracting, I mean, remember on these election nights in the primary, we were looking inside the exit polls and, you know, a lot of these people voting for Nikki Haley had not voted for Trump in '20. They had a high approval of Joe Biden. I mean these are not exactly, you know, prime targets for the Trump campaign.

That's not true for DeSantis. DeSantis, a lot of the people who liked DeSantis did like Trump. They did vote for Trump. They want, you know, sort of that style of government. So, I think it's two totally different kinds of voters. And I think the DeSantis people, I think the DeSantis money and sort of the DeSantis world is a lot more accessible to Trump than perhaps the Nikki Haley ecosystem is.

BERMAN: You know, Ashley, it wasn't that long ago, like 2016, when Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, it was hard work to bring them together. I remember this sort of awkward appearance they had on stage. You know, this isn't easy always figuring out how to mend fences.

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, you know, when you run against someone, you are trying to beat them, so you sometimes say things about the candidate that can be taken personally. Sometimes it goes beyond just their policy positions. So, I'm not surprised, particularly on the Democratic side, what - even when you think about - in 2008, when Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton ran against each other, bringing that part - bringing the party together then. If you remember in 2020 or 2019, really, during the Democratic primary, the stage was full of people and getting folks to rally behind Joe Biden once it was clear he was going to be the nominee.

This, though, for Trump, Haley and DeSantis, I do think is a little bit different. I agree with Scott because Nikki Haley, really towards the end started to take some real jabs at Donald Trump and really try to question his character and talk about him being chaotic. And they are not -- Nikki Haley's voters probably don't really identify as part of the MAGA movement and Donald Trump. So, those voters have to go somewhere and Donald Trump and Joe Biden, they should try and get them.

Now, where they will fall, we'll have to wait and see. But there's six months and both campaigns should probably try and get them in their camp if they want to win.

BERMAN: All right, no one thinks that Ron DeSantis is on any kind of list to be a running mate to Donald Trump. There are issues with the Constitution having two people in the same states.

But let's look at a current sort of, you know, list of people who could be being looked at right now for vice president. You have the former governor of North Dakota - sorry, the current governor, I just got him out of a job there, Doug Burgum, South Carolina Senator Tim Scott, South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem, more on her in a second, and Florida Senator Marco Rubio.

You know, Scott Jennings, you've been noting a kind of Burgum mania right now inside Trump world. What's happening?

JENNINGS: Yes. Yes. Well, first of all, nobody's played their cards better than Doug Burgum. He was an unknown candidate and he runs for president, you know, handles himself pretty well. Obviously, didn't make it. But as soon as he got out of the race, he immediately endorsed Trump. He's been going to these events, endorsing the former president.

[09:35:00]

And, you know, if you think of Donald Trump, one of his main skills as a casting director, who looks more like a vice president than Doug Burgum. I mean he is loyal. He has been saying all the right things. He's no drama. He's not going to cause you any problems. Oh, by the way, he's a rich guy, which Trump respects, and it may come in handy on the campaign. So, there is some idea out there that Burgum may be moving up on the list.

This is one area where Trump actually has a lot of good possible choices that you could easily defend as being smart. Burgum is good. Tim Scott is good. Rubio is good, although he also has the Florida issue. Elise Stefanik is good. There's a lot of people hear that if Trump picked them would be highly defensible and politically astute. So, this is one area of the campaign where they've got a bounty from which to choose.

BERMAN: Ashley, any one of those candidates scare you more or less as a possible choice for Donald Trump? And let's leave Kristi Noem out of it for just a second.

ALLISON: Well, they all scare me, but probably not for the reason that you're thinking about.

Look, I think that when you pick a vice president, you want someone who is going to complement your skill set. So, a Tim Scott, potentially, you know, I think the thinking is that he could attract some African American voters. I'm not sure how many. Maybe a couple percentage points. But in a race that is extremely close, every point matters.

To Scott's point, Doug Burgum, having a treasure trove. I mean he was one of the candidates that was paying people to donate. So, basically, you know, building a mass around him with his own self-financing, his campaign and the Trump campaign does need money because they have to pay for so many of his legal bills.

So, they all have a unique complimentary set.

The interesting thing though about Donald Trump is that you know he's going to want somebody though that compliments him but also just does not outshine him and will fall in line -

BERMAN: Yes.

ALLISON: And do something on January 6th that his former vice president, Mike Pence, did, and that is certify the election results. He knows if he doesn't win, he doesn't want someone to do that. So they're - it's pretty complicated and he's going to want somebody, as we talked about in last question on - like a Ron DeSantis says that will kiss his ring at the end of the day.

BERMAN: All right, very quickly from both the you, first Ashley, Kristi Noem. She did put out a statement over the weekend. This is after she wrote in her book about killing her dog, Cricket, 20 years ago. She basically put out a statement that says, you know what, I wrote about it because I wanted people to know that I make hard choices and do hard things. Any way to explain your way out of this, Ashley?

ALLISON: Maybe there are some voters out there that want people to make those types of choices. I don't know. I think - I don't know who advised her to put that in the book. I'm not sure what she was trying to project as she was strong and tough that you kill a puppy who is really actually behaving as a puppy would. I mean, in the scheme of things, of everything going on in the world, whether or not this issue is going to be a deciding factor of whether a vote a voter is going to go for her, I'm not sure, but it's kind of an unfortunate and it says a little bit about her character and what type of person she is and not in a favorable way.

BERMAN: I just have to say, I've been surprised by the outpouring of emotion on this. People really do seem to have a visceral reaction, Scott.

ALLISON: We love our dogs.

JENNINGS: Yes, look, I mean it's a - we do love our dogs. Ashley and I both own bulldogs, by the way. And I got mine in part because Ashley had such a good experience with hers. And they're puppies. And they do things.

Look, the issue here is judgment. Judgement. What kind of judgment did you use when you did it? What kind of judgment did you use when you put it in the book? And what kind of judgment did you use when you doubled and then tripled down on it? If I'm Donald Trump, if I'm around him, and I'm like, look at all these great choices I have for vice president, and then I have this weirdo who's out here shooting dogs and saying it's a great idea, I'm like, I got - I got plenty of other options here. Doug Burgum's not shooting any dogs. You know, Tim Scott's not out here writing about weirdo things he did 20 years ago. It's a judgment issue. And the number one issue of picking a vice president is do no harm. And not only has Kristi Noem done harm to a dog, she's done harm to her own political future by writing about it and defending it the way she has.

BERMAN: I've got to say, I never thought I'd see this questionnaire end up on the VP - you know, the veepstakes vetting process, but maybe they will be a new one.

Ashley Allison, Scott Jennings, thanks to both of you.

JENNINGS: Yes.

BERMAN: I really appreciate it.

So, when will the judge rule whether Donald Trump is in contempt of court and why has he waited so long?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:43:55]

BOLDUAN: No court today for Donald Trump. His New York criminal hush money trial picks back up tomorrow. And when it does, Michael Cohen's former banker, Gary Farro, will likely be back on the stand.

Still hanging out there as well, Trump's gag order violations. We're waiting to hear from the judge on like 11 alleged violations by Trump. And that judges has also set a new hearing date for another four alleged violations. What is the judge going to do and what's the holdup?

Joining me right now a CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson and CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers.

Amazing I can still find a way to mispronounce your name after knowing you for so long.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It is all good, Kate. All good.

BOLDUAN: And with that I turn my back to you.

Jennifer, can you just grade the case so far for the DA. How are they doing? What have they accomplished? It's early on, I know.

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I think they're doing very well. I mean there's not going to be a big made for movie moment here, like people sometimes think there should be. They're building brick by brick their case, right, so that when it comes to the summations, they're able to say, let me put it all together for you.

[09:45:01]

And the jury says, oh yes, you know, they did get all of that evidence. That's what they're doing. So, I think they're doing very well. The Pecker testimony, in particular, was great about setting up that election conspiracy. And they've just kind of proceeded through their paces.

BOLDUAN: Joey, can you give me the other side on this. If you're sitting at the defense table, how are you feeling as you head back in this week? I mean have they made ground in their I mean I'll call it limited cross exam so far.

JACKSON: Right. Right. So, the answer is, it's - you have a long way to go, right? So, let's back up and talk about what we do know.

In terms of Pecker, of course, to Jen's point, very compelling witness. Lays out what the theory of the cases is, which is about this cover up and conspiracy. So, what did the defense attempt to do? These catching and kill issues, right? Catch and kill is something that the industry provides for. That's nothing new. It's nothing unique. It's something that you've been doing for quite a long time. And as a matter of fact, it's not only been for Trump, it's been for a number of other people.

And, by the way, when you talked about Trump thanking you, Mr. Pecker, for this whole Karen McDougal, you were interviewed by the FBI, and that was in 2018. You didn't happen to tell them that did you? It's not reflected in their notes, is it? So, I think what they're trying to do, the defense, and whether or not they made any headway is always a jury question - they're the finder of fact - is to really whittle away and make the suggestion that there is nothing to see here about catch and kill. That's what is done by standard course. And if you're in an election year, of course you have an interest in promoting yourself. That's what, as the defense says, we call democracy. That's their argument.

BOLDUAN: So, when the trial picks back up, we have the banker back on the stand. And the fact that they're bringing Michael Cohen's former banker to the stand so early, that - that says what to you, Jen? I mean how important is his testimony to what the DA is laying out?

RODGERS: So, he's getting some documents into evidence, which, of course, they need to do. But more importantly than that, they are going to corroborate the heck out of Michael Cohen before he gets on the stand. So, this is their preemptive, by the time Michael Cohen gets on the stand to tell you kind of from beginning to end what happened, you will have heard all of this before through other people. And it really goes to the point of how smart it is, the way that the DA framed this case around this election conspiracy because that allows them to get in the coconspirator statements of all the people involved.

So that Mr. Pharaoh (ph) can say, oh, Michael Cohen told me this. He told me this other thing. He told me all of these things. So, you're able to kind of hear it through other people who have no biases, no axes to grind. You know, no reason to lie about anything before you hear it from Michael Cohen.

BOLDUAN: Not that this - not that we didn't - that you - smart minds didn't think this before, but does this just reinforce the point that Michael Cohen is the central - is going to be the central focus of the defense strategy?

JACKSON: So, yes, although the prosecution, Kate, is doing its best not to make him the central focus because the issues Jen mentioned, corroborate him early, bringing other people who would give the indication that what Michael Cohen is going to tell you is true. But then I think what the defense is - will do is say, look, Donald Trump doesn't put ledgers in anything. He doesn't manage books. He has nothing to do with that area. He's presented with a bill. He pays a bill. And so how we imputing knowledges to him. It's a massive organization. There's many moving parts. He's running for president. He's doing a lot of things. And as a result of that, how are we holding him accountable for every ledger 34 times, every invoice 34 times. That is the responsibility of many others who are paid very well to do just that. The only way to get away from the hard evidence, because it is hard evidence.

BOLDUAN: Its' good to see you guys. You'll be back with me. I'm going to force you to.

It's good to see you. Thank you.

JACKSON: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Come up for us, Taylor Swift says she's feeling completely overwhelmed today. Her new message to fans. The fans, the very same fans who helped her - are helping her break even more records with her new album.

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[09:53:24]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR SWIFT, MUSICIAN (singing): You left your typewriter at my apartment. Straight from the tortured poet's department. I think some things I never say, like who uses typewriters anyway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, I know this might shock you, but Taylor Swift's new album is a certified hit. The 31 tracks "Tortured Poets Department" debuted at number one on the Billboard Albums Chart. This is her 14th album to claim the spot.

CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister is with us now.

It's kind of an upset victory here, Eliabeth, right?

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: The biggest shock of the day, John. But, yes, Taylor Swift has done it once again.

Now, she had already made streaming history with "The Tortured Poets Department" becoming the most-streamed album in its first single day across Spotify, Apple and Amazon Music. Now she has topped the charts, as we see right there, selling over 2.6 million albums in its first week. This eclipses Taylor's last record, which was 1989, "Taylor's Version," sold over 1.3 million albums in its first week. So, you can see there, this is a huge moment, even for Taylor herself, becoming her best first week album sales.

But she's not just breaking her own record, John, she's also breaking records on the charts. Now, this is Taylor's 14th album to come out at number one on the Billboard 200. She is now tied with Jay-z, who holds that same record. They are obviously solo artists, but the only other recording artists to beat Jay-z and Taylor Swift are The Beetles.

[09:55:07]

So, pretty good company if you can keep it.

Now, as we saw right there, she's also sold 859,000 albums on vinyl, which Billboard says is the top vinyl sales in modern history. Now, if you can believe it, John, Taylor stands to break even more records. When the billboard 100 comes out, she can beat the record that is currently held by Drake. Right now Drake is the only artists in history to have 15 songs on the Billboard 100 at one time. Taylor Swift has had 14 songs, but we know this album had 31 song. So, I think she might be able to do it.

BERMAN: So, you are saying she's doing OK here. I know she's on this tour, which I think the Eras Tour has gone on for 67 years, but how will this likely impact the next 40 years of the Eras Tour?

WAGMEISTER: Exactly. It feels like Taylor Swift has now eclipsed Elton John, right, who was on a farewell tour forever. So, Taylor Swift, she posted and thanked her fans. She said that she is floored and that she is amazed at the success of this album. But she also mentioned her Eras Tour. She said that she couldn't wait to get back on tour. And now she really can't. May 9th is when her European leg of the tour kicks off and she will continue all summer in Europe, then in Canada, John.

BERMAN: When does an era becoming an apoc (ph)? That's a question here.

Elizabeth Wagmeister, our thanks to you.

BOLDUAN: And thank you all so much for joining us. Deep thoughts from John Berman as we leave today.

BERMAN: Just asking. Just asking.

BOLDUAN: This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "CNN NEWSROOM" with Jim Acosta, up next.

You're hilarious. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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