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Columbia: Clear Encampment By 2PM Today Or Face Suspension; Nick Baum, a Jewish Student at Columbia, Discusses Pro-Palestinian Protests; CNN Speaks To Gang Leader In Lawless Haitian Territory. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired April 29, 2024 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: Well, it's going to be -- it's going to be a remarkable second week. We've got the banker back on, Gary Farro, back on the stand tomorrow.

And of course, we know that you and all of us here, we'll be watching very, very closely --

(LAUGHTER)

MARQUARDT: -- this historic, unprecedented trial, as we keep saying.

David Urban, Michael Moore, thank you both very much.

And we head back to the campus of Columbia University in just a moment. The school now telling protesters that they have until 2:00 p.m., so just half an hour from now, to leave their encampment or face suspension.

We'll be speaking with a Columbia student about the mood on campus. That's next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:35:03]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Developing now, student protesters are vowing to defy a deadline set by Columbia University that is really just minutes away now, about 25 minutes away here.

The school has told pro-Palestinian student demonstrators that they have until 2:00 p.m. Eastern to leave the encampment that they have set up on campus -- these are live pictures were watching of some protesters there -- that they have to do this or they will face suspension.

MARQUARDT: Joining us now is Nick Baum. He is a student at Columbia's Jewish Theological Seminary.

Nick, thanks so much for joining us this afternoon.

There's a lot going on, on your campus. We understand that you're not there right now. But as the student protest group said, we will not move until Columbia meets our demands or that they're moved by force.

So what are you expecting? What are you hoping will happen in just 25 minutes from now at 2:00 p.m.

NICK BAUM, JEWISH STUDENT AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Well, I'm hoping things go as peaceful as possible, as quiet as possible. But obviously, the expectation is that won't necessarily be the case.

And I think over the last few days, the campus has obviously been a lot more tense. But surprisingly, a bit more quiet, too. And I think all of that owes to a plethora of students who have left campus altogether because of the switch to virtual classes, to virtual final exams.

Me, living in Jewish dorms at the Jewish Theological Seminary, I, for one, can attest to that as I've seen friend after friends simply leave for back home because of concerns for their safety. It's simply a ghost town where I am right next to the campus.

And so, as for the encampment, I hope things go as smoothly as possible. But obviously, we're really much expecting something else to play out.

KEILAR: The statement from the group, which is sort of this umbrella group of a number of student groups, says, "That we've informed the university that we are prepared to escalate our direct actions if they do not adopt basic standards of conduct for negotiations."

What does that mean to you, as you hear that, Nick? And what do you worry that may mean?

BAUM: It's pretty disturbing. To me, it makes me worry that something physical is going to break out, that some horrible things are going to start to be said.

And as a Jew and as a Zionist, I believe that that could ultimately spell out a lot of hatred towards my end, as me being under those categories.

And I think, ultimately, the encampment leaders, not the actual inhabitants of the encampment, but those who are engaged in the negotiations, they've shown their true colors a little bit.

Because we've seen in these negotiations, Columbia offered to offer investment, to offer charity towards Gazan health, towards Gazan education, towards scholarships for displaced students in Gaza and so forth.

And so seeing the leaders of encampment, negotiations would go against that, refused to do that because Columbia would still be investing in Israeli companies, it shows that they ultimately care more what about hurting Israel civilians than helping Gazan civilians.

MARQUARDT: Nick, I read something that you said recently, that the vilification of Zionism has spilled over into the vilification of Judaism. How much do you think that that conflation is playing into this?

That's that Israels opponents are simply assuming that Jewish students on campus support the Israeli governments policies?

BAUM: I think there is a large bit of that assumption. And at the end of the day, about 80 percent of Jews are, in fact, Zionists.

So oftentimes, when you're in this sort of echo chamber that Columbia oftentimes is, hatred of Zionism, calling them Zionist terrorists, calling them Nazis, as we've constantly seen throughout campus may inevitably spillover into hatred of Jews in the process.

And I don't deny that there are many Jews living in the encampment, but when you actively throw the most vile rhetoric towards 80 percent of Jews, then that's going to ultimately reflect, oftentimes, simple hatred of Jews.

KEILAR: I wonder, Nick, if I can ask you as we're waiting to see what happens at 2:00 as this deadline approaches, you mentioned that there are Jews living in the encampment.

One of the more outspoken protesters is Jewish and he's talked about the arrest and the eviction from campus of Jewish students who oppose Israel's war on Gaza.

He said, quote, "Calls to more heavily police our campus actively endanger Jewish students and threaten the regular operations of the university far more gravely than peaceful protests."

What do you say to that?

BAUM: I think, oftentimes, peaceful protests, especially what we've usually seen at the encampment, don't present a danger to me personally as a Jew and to most other Jews on campus. I can say that much.

But there's still is the necessity to have policing, to have security, especially outside the gates -- gates of campus because it was especially outside the gates of campus where non-Columbia-affiliated protesters had amassed and shouted some horrible things.

"Yihaodian (ph) go away, go back to Poland, we'll repeat October 7th, 10,000 times." Those chants endanger of my safety as a Jew. And we need security to be there to make sure that those active threats don't spill over into actual physical violence.

[13:40:08]

KEILAR: Nick, we appreciate you speaking with us. Obviously, we're watching very carefully as we're about 20 minutes away from this deadline.

Thank you for being with us.

BAUM: Thank you. KEILAR: And still ahead, we have a CNN exclusive. Our David Culver

entering Haiti's gangland to speak with a gang leader who now stands accused of destabilizing the country and is also listed on the FBI's most-wanted list. Watch part of their discussion, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:44:57]

MARQUARDT: This is a story that you're only going to be seeing here on CNN. Face-to-face with an FBI most-wanted fugitive who is accused of destabilizing an entire country, and that country is Haiti.

It is on the -- is in the grips, excuse me, of violent unrest divided into gang-controlled territories. And as the prime minister just stepped down a few days ago.

KEILAR: CNN's David Culver traveled to the lawless capital of Port-au- Prine to speak with a top gang leader.

Just unbelievable interview that you did here, David. And you have some details for us. Walk us through what this was like.

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: think the visuals, as you start to see them play out, are really going to help set the scene here. Brianna and Alex.

I mean, one of the things is, when you realize you are totally surrendering control is the moment you drive, even in an armored vehicle, into gang territory. It's land that we've been told, you know, in the past several months that we've been covering Haiti, stay away from, do not go there.

But after weeks of negotiations with this notorious gang leader, somebody who considers himself to be more of a community activist, we were finally able to get this interview in place.

He guaranteed security from his perspective. And yet still you realize anything can happen.

So I'll let you see a little bit of our interaction and tour of his territory. And then I'll give you a bit more for context on the backend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CULVER (voice-over): Security experts suggest Tabarre has more than 1,000 armed gang members, including recently escaped inmates.

(on camera): As you can see, a lot of his armed soldiers and followers are around us and he suggested that we follow and drive with them.

(voice-over): He brings us to the edge of his territory. We notice his guards, normally curious and watching us, are instead looking outward cautiously, toward another gang's territory, a reminder that the coalition of gangs might be more fragile than portrayed. In the midst of our tour, a disturbing video starts circulating on WhatsApp. It reportedly shows the devastating and deadly aftermath of an allied gang attack on a community a few miles from where we are.

(voice-over): The destruction, the violence, the deaths that have played out.

Do you take any responsibility for that?

VITEL'HOMME INNOCENT, GANG LEADER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

CULVER (voice-over): He only says he made mistakes and is not perfect. He blames politicians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CULVER: There's a lot of deflecting in this interview in the five hours that we spent with him. And Vitel'homme, in a sense, this is who were talking with there, is on the FBIs 10 most-wanted list. He's got this $2,000,000 bounty.

And yet he looks at it more as having been burned by politicians in the past. And there's truth to some of that. There's a lot of corruption.

He is a product of a country that's not only had political crisis, but also natural disasters. And so this is a country right now that's in need of healing.

But the gangs are really causing a lot of the issues from being resolved. I mean, there's severing supply lines and folks are starving -- guys?

KEILAR: Yes, five hours. It's really incredible, obviously not with no danger, but incredibly important to get the story here, David.

He's on the FBI most-wanted list, under U.N. sanctions for human rights abuses. He's wanted by the Haitian National Police.

How's he hoping to stabilize the country if he rejects the Haitian state and foreign intervention?

CULVER: So it's interesting. We asked him this several times over the course of those five hours, you know, what is your proposal for the future?

And you do get a sense of this is somebody who, yes, he has certain requests for how he likes to live his lifestyle. I mean, you can see it there in this gold-rimmed furniture room with stuffed animals.

And yet, at the same time, there are moments where he doesn't seem to have ego. It almost comes across very Zen and intentional.

He says it's about dialogue and about crafting that dialogue with other Haitians. He stresses that because he says outside forces have caused a lot of damaged over the years within Haiti. But again, we're talking about somebody who is responsible, and even though he pushes back on this, but his gang has been tied to a lot of atrocities, things that we've witnessed firsthand that are just horrific.

KEILAR: Yes, as you point out in that bit of the interview that we see there.

David Culver, thank you so much for bringing that to us.

[13:49:03]

Stay with CNN. And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: We're following our breaking news. Columbia University telling protesters on the campus that students will be suspended if they do not vacate the encampment that they have set up there here in the next seven minutes by 2:00 p.m.

MARQUARDT: Just seven minutes. That deadline quickly approaching.

CNN's Omar Jimenez is just, well, on Columbia's campus.

Omar, what are you seeing ahead of this deadline of 2:00?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So we're just - we're just outside the gates of Columbia's campus right now. And we're obviously minutes to that 2:00 p.m. deadline the university has set.

And likely knowing that that deadline is approaching for the students to leave or face suspension, we have seen some protests develop outside the university here.

Now, this is more typical of what we have seen over the course of -- over the course of a week or so. And we have -- we've seen protests like this. And these -- these have been sort of the differences in place -- in sites of protests that we've seen.

Where there's been one set of protests outside of campus and one that's been campus lead, and that's what we've seen develop on campus, where really they've been pushing Columbia University to divest from Israel.

Now, we've got that crucial update this morning the University President Minouche Shafik, essentially saying that the negotiations between student protesters and the university had essentially come to standstill, wouldn't be going forward anymore.

[13:55:07]

And essentially saying and making clear that the university will not divest in Israel. While they said they had productive talks between the two sides, they couldn't get past that impact. That said, we're approaching that 2:00 p.m. deadline. The students

inside have voted to remain past the student deadline. And we're going to get inside, as we understand it, a few minutes here to go and try and speak to some of those students.

But they plan to remain past the deadline with one organizer saying that they plan to remain there until they are moved by force. We will see what that looks like. And if we actually gets that point -- Boris?

MARQUARDT: Yes, things at Columbia are going to be ramping up just a few weeks from graduation.

Omar Jimenez, for us on the west side of Manhattan, we'll come back with you shortly as we reach that deadline.

We will have much more on all of these protests across the country. That's coming up next. Stay with us.

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