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Eastman to Appear in Arizona Court; Judge and DA in Trump Case Face Challengers; Defense Accuses Cohen of Lying; Biden Renews Focus on Black Voters. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired May 17, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: CHAMPION: Went to the school and said most people stood for him. There were about 12 women, maybe a little less than, who were upset. This is all according to what she said. This is - these are her words.

But here is the problem. When did it become OK to attack - well, we know when it became OK, attack DEI, attack women's rights. We're living in a country right - and you know this better than me - where we should not sit by and let people just say anything they can, especially when it comes to women's rights. We're fighting for them every single day. But he kept saying, I want to stay in my lane. How is a man telling a woman what to do with her right to choose staying in his lane. I'm - and, yes, he has that. He can say that. But I think the NFL missed an opportunity here to bring more women to their side and say, hey, look, we had a great year with all these women who loved actually being here and play - and being a part of this game. He missed a - they missed an opportunity to stand up for women is what I think.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: What is interesting here is the NFL response you talked about just saying, look, these are not our views, these are his views only. But also during his speech we heard that - him sort of use a Taylor Swift line. This is Taylor Swift, one of the most feminist pf feminist people who is not married, doesn't have kids, and has a huge career. Do you think she's going to say something?

CHAMPION: I think she will write a song about it. The Swifties have already spoken out. I'm sure they are watching right now. They'll say, yes, this is true, we're coming together. There'll be a moment in which she can address it, probably very tongue and cheek, or maybe she won't.

The reason why this is so ironic to me, and I'm sure that you've heard this already, Sara, his mother is a professor, like an extremely accomplished woman at a university. I believe Emory University in Atlanta. And so I find this also odd coming from someone telling us to stay in our lane as women. Hopefully Taylor will address it. Hopefully the NFL will address women specifically in this instance.

SIDNER: Because the NFL has been trying to grow its female base. And, by the way, Taylor Swift was part of growing that base. Cari Champion, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

CHAMPION: Thank you, Sara.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Fake electors headed court. Today, the first of a long list of defendants charged in Arizona with peddling election lies are facing a judge. What is expected to happen there today.

In New York, Donald Trump's former fixer may be in need of fixing himself. The surprising turn his cross-examination took and how prosecutors are now going to have to clean things up when the Trump criminal trial resumes.

Fake eyelashes, butch bodies - John - IQ insults. The mess that is Capitol Hill, showed a new level of dysfunction overnight inside a House hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I think you're fake eyelashes are messing up what you're reading.

REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): No, ain't nothing -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on. Hold on.

CROCKETT: Listen -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: I'm Kate Baldwin, with John Berman and Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, happening today, Donald Trump ally and former attorney John Eastman is set to appear in an Arizona courtroom. He is the first of 18 defendants to be arraigned on charges stemming from the 2020 fake electors scheme.

CNN's Kyung Lah watching all of this from - literally turning to watch it in Phoenix.

Kyung, what's the very latest from there this morning? What do we expect?

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are expecting John Eastman to show up here in court in just a couple of hours. And what we're going to see is basically a very standard arraignment. The charges are going to be read to him. He's going to be accompanied by his lawyer. He will be booked and there will be a mug shot. So, all of that process, very familiar to anyone who's ever stopped in on criminal court.

But he is the first of 18 in a very closely watched case here in the state of Arizona. It mirrors some of the other cases to what's been happening in some of the other swing states. So, Eastman is a former Trump lawyer. He is the alleged architect of

this multi-state fake elector scheme, when these electors gathered in a room and said that it was not Joe Biden - he did win in 2020 here - not Joe Biden but instead Donald Trump, and then signed this document and sent it in. Well, this is the consequence, says the attorney general here in the state of Arizona, for that scheme.

So, who is charged? Let's give you a look at the first 11. These are the 11 people who broadcast an image of themselves all gathered, signing this document, even smiled in a photo and posted it on social media. They are the 11. Prominent state people, two state Arizona senators.

[09:05:02]

There is the head of the Arizona GOP, the former head of the Arizona GOP, and an executive for Turning Point USA. Very well-known in Trump circles.

The second page though is where you may see some familiar national names. These are very close in the Trump orbit from his former lawyers, to the White House chief of staff, and, of course, the person who will be appearing in court today to start these arrangements here in Arizona, John Eastman.

John.

BERMAN: Kyung Lah, great to have you there. Keep us posted as we see this develop over the course of the day. Thank you very much.

Sara.

SIDNER: And now to another big case, now to Donald Trump's election interference case in Georgia. There is new insight this morning into all of the campaigning right now going on in that state. And I'm not speaking of former President Trump. Both the judge and the embattled DA in the Georgia case are facing challengers and fighting to keep their seats.

CNN's Sara Murray is joining us now.

This is a confluence of a lot of things. What are you hearing?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's this bizarre election year coincidence that, of course, Donald Trump, the defendant, is campaigning, but so is District Attorney Fani Willis, so is the judge who is overseeing this case, Judge Scott McAfee.

And, you know, the incumbents are still favored to win, but they are having to go out there, they are having to try to defend their seats. We have seen Fani Willis at a variety of campaign events around the greater Atlanta area where she's trying to walk this tight rope of taking aim at her critics, but also being careful about what she says publicly about the Trump case, especially while this threat of being disqualified from the prosecution hangs over her head.

Take a listen to one of the comments she had for her critics at a recent campaign stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FANI WILLIS, FULTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: And ain't no one above the law either (ph). So, I don't you how rich you are, how powerful you think you are. I don't care how many times they threaten me. I will gladly leave this place knowing that I didn't God's work. I'm sorry folks get pissed off that everybody gets treated evenly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Now, she is up against Christian Wise Smith in the Democratic primary. He is a defense attorney. But he's caught a little bit of skepticism from the Democratic base. They're not quite sure how he would handle the Trump case if he is elected. We asked him that in an interview. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIAN WISE SMITH (D), CANDIDATE FOR FULTON COUNTY D.A.: Would I drop the case? Let me say this, I think the case is in grave jeopardy right now.

I'm not dropping it if it's there when I get there, but we are going to look at the best way to go forward with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Now, the judicial race is also getting a little bit spicy as far as judicial races go. These are non-partisan races. Again, it's going to be on the ballot in Fulton County on Tuesday. And we have seen, again, Judge McAfee up against the person he's - w o's challenging him, Robert Patillo, another defense attorney. And Patillo has taken aim at a number of the campaign contributions and fundraiser Scott McAfee has held, including with people who are involved in the Trump case or could potentially be involved in the Trump case, like Georgia Governor Brian Kemp and former Governor Roy Barnes, who was a witness in the Willis disqualification hearings. Robert Patillo has said this is essentially like running a kangaroo court.

Now, Scott McAfee is defending himself, telling CNN that his opponent is just trying to make a name for himself. But, you know, this is really as spicy as it gets when it comes to these judicial races, just a couple of days before the race, guys.

SIDNER: You don't always hear the word "spicy" when it comes to judicial elections.

MURRAY: Right.

SIDNER: So, that's unusual too. Sara Murray, thank you so much for all that reporting this morning.

MURRAY: Right.

SIDNER: John. BERMAN: So, Arizona, Georgia, New York City, which is where, of course, Donald Trump has been on trial, charged with falsifying documents to cover up hush money payments to Stormy Daniels, all to influence the 2016 election. Today is a dark day in court, but it is a chance really to reassess where things stand after the cross- examination of Michael Cohen, where he seemed to get caught, if not in a lie, at least in a story that needs some clarification.

With me now, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Jennifer Rodgers. Also defense attorney Randy Zelin.

So, Jennifer, what happened yesterday was Michael Cohen told a story on direct that he remembered a phone call directly with Donald Trump in 2016 where he talked about the payments to Stormy Daniels. During cross what was brought out is well, that conversation, at least part of it, was with his body man, Keith Schiller, about crank calls from a 14-year-old. I know the details here are all confusing, but the stories were inconsistent, full stop.

The question now is, what does the prosecution do today, tomorrow, Sunday, to plan for Monday? How can they clean this up?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the first thing is, whatever they do, they can't do it with Michael Cohen. He's still on cross, which means that prosecutors can't speak with them. Now, Michael Cohen has a lawyer who I think will be working with him, kind of trying to anticipate how the cleanup will go, but prosecutors will have to figure that out on their own.

[09:10:05]

Listen, I think that they'll just take him back through whether or not they will ask him if he now, having thought about it, thinks that those were two separate calls or whether it was all on the same call, as he was, you know, trying to say may have happened during the cross. I don't know. We'll see where they go with it.

But honestly, John, I think this is probably in part the fault of prosecutors who were so intent on scaffolding Michael Cohen's testimony with other things that couldn't be questioned, like documents, that when they showed him - and admittedly it's also eight years ago - when they showed him that a call happened with Keith Schiller two days before the payoff and he remembered having told, you know, Donald Trump when it all had been resolved and it was going forward, he may have put those two things together when they didn't go together.

BERMAN: You actually anticipated a question I was going to come to you with a little bit later, so, Randy, hang on one second. Let me go back to you with this, Jennifer. How did prosecutors let this happen? This is what we call - in the sports business we call this an unforced error. The texts with Keith Schiller were know. They had them in their possession. How could they have not either, a, have known about them, or, b, have brought them up to pull the sting out?

RODGERS: Yes, it's a mistake. They missed it, obviously, because they will have had those text messages. And when you're plotting things, right, evidence that you have and you have a call, not between Donald Trump and Michael Cohen, but between Keith Schiller and Michael Cohen, and Michael Cohen explains how sometimes he called Keith Schiller. They'd talk on speaker and so on.

But then you have to think, let me just check and see what else is out there between these two people. They definitely should have caught it. It was a mistake.

BERMAN: OK, Randy, thank you for waiting. Your turn now. Recoverable for the prosecution?

RANDY ZELIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. Can I stop there or do you want me to keep going? It is - it is not recoverable. Michael Cohen -

BERMAN: You can elaborate. You've earned the right to elaborate.

ZELIN: Thank you.

Michael Cohen had one job to do, and that was to put Donald Trump in the room and to have Donald Trump part of the conversation concerning the making of false entries in the books and records of the Trump Organization in order to influence the election. False entries of the misdemeanor elevated to a felony because it's in furtherance of another crime, which is election - election interference, election fraud. He had one job to do and he couldn't do it on something so simple. Tell us about a conversation. And the worst part of it is on direct he sounded so convincing. He sounded so smooth, so good. It was such a good day for the prosecution. Describes the conversation, and then completely shoots the pooch where it looks like that conversation absolutely actually never happened. Done.

BERMAN: I will say this, as someone who spends a lot of time with these transcripts at night as part of my side hustle here, that conversation right there was actually only one of several conversations that Michael Cohen testified to. It was the shortest one and it was the least perhaps important in telling the story about how, according to Michael Cohen, Donald Trump approved of the payments to Stormy Daniels, knew about how they were organized and whatnot. That call was on October 24th. On October 26th Michael Cohen testified in great detail about a longer conversation he had with Trump where he talked about actually setting up the bank account. So, does that no longer matter, that testimony, Randy?

ZELIN: Losas en unum (ph). I think that's the fancy Latin phrase which for the rest of us means, if you lied about one thing, I don't have to believe another thing that you say. And that is exactly what the judge will instruct the jury. If you find anything that a witness said to be untrue, to be incredible, to be a lie, feel free to disregard the entirety of that witnesses testimony.

BERMAN: Since you brought up Latin, there's nowhere else to go.

Randy Zelin, we do appreciate your time this morning.

Jennifer Rodgers, thanks to you. Again, three days now for the prosecution to prepare. And Monday will

be quite a day. Thank you.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, the reigning Masters champion is now facing a felony charge after an arrest - after he was arrested on his way to the PGA championship. Details on what apparently happened with police that led to the arrest, this mug shot, and what that means for today. We're getting more details on this.

Plus, President Biden is set to give the commencement address at Morehouse College. More on his new effort to reach out to black voters this week.

And a groundbreaking look at the latest research showing that symptoms of Alzheimer's can be prevented, slowed, and potentially even reversed. The years-long reporting effort by CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta. We'll bring that to you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:19:09]

SIDNER: President Biden focusing his efforts this weekend on black voters as polls show a drop in support from the key group that helped him win the White House. Later today he will speak at the National Museum of African American History and Culture. He is also set to meet with members of the Divine Nine, those nine historically black fraternities and sororities. And Sunday he'll deliver the commencement speech at Morehouse College, then attend an NAACP dinner in Detroit.

Joining us now, CNN's senior political commentator and former special assistant to President George W. Bush, Scott Jennings. Also CNN political commentator and former South Carolina State Representative Bakari Sellers.

Thank you so much, gentlemen, for being here.

I want to ask you, Bakari, what does Biden need to do and say during his speeches and his visits in these meetings that you think might make a difference with the folks that he is talking to?

[09:20:22]

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: First, I think it's very notable that many of my people and friends on the right always say that this president doesn't get out and campaign or meet people where they are. And so I think he gets an A plus for being out on the trail, going to Georgia, going to Michigan, meeting with these individuals and meeting people where they are. That's first.

Second, I mean, this is an all hands-on deck type of election. And the president needs to stress the fact that we need heavy geo (ph) TV efforts. I mean he's meeting with groups who are essential to getting those voters out. The Divine Nine, their membership is essential. The NAACP, particularly in Detroit, Michigan, is essential, that not only those individuals who were in the audience, but their friends, cousins, family, colleagues, all come out in support. This is not a race where either side has to persuade a vote. That's not what this race is about. This race is about getting out the vote.

And last but not least, particularly at Morehouse, he has to articulate a vision for the future, not necessarily the nostalgia for the past, but a vision for the future and what it's going to look like for those young men, particularly young black men, after they graduate on Sunday from Morehouse College.

SIDNER: You make - you talk about young black men, and that is one of the groups that had started to lean a little bit more towards Donald Trump.

Scott, do Republicans - what do they attribute all of that too?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, I find it incredible that Bakari thinks there's no persuasion to be had in this election. I mean this just goes to show you what Democrat Party politics means for black voters. They will take your vote for granted. They're not here to persuade you. They're not here to give you ideas. They're here to tell you to shut up and show up. That's the strategy of the Democratic Party. But that's why the polls show African American voters, and specifically African American men, are sick of it and they're gravitating towards Donald Trump.

Look, black voters are largely working class. They have the same problems that all working class Americans have. The rent and the food is too damn high. Cost of living, food prices, your entire life costs too much. That's why they're mad at Joe Biden. He can give all the speeches he wants. Until the cost of being a working class American comes down, they're going to be looking for a political party that listens to them and does not tell them, shut up and show up, which is apparently the strategy of Joe Biden's campaign.

SIDNER: I want to ask you, gentlemen, about some "New York Times" reporting that was pretty stark. It showed that on Justice Alito's - at Justice Alito's house there was a flag that was flying - that was upside down, which usually is a sign of distress in the flag code, but it was widely used by Trump's stop the steal reporters. There is a picture of that flag. We have, though, learned that he has made a comment to "The New York Times," Justice Alito, saying, I had no involvement whatsoever in flying of the flag. He emailed that to "The Times." It was briefly placed by Mrs. Alito in response to a neighbor's use of objectionable and personally insulting language on yard signs. But this was put up right after the 2020 election.

And I'm curious, Scott, to you first, what - what do you think this will do to further potentially erode people's trust when you see something like that, no matter who placed it, it was someone in his home who did so?

JENNINGS: Doesn't erode my trust. I mean erode - it's going to - I'll tell you what's going to - it's going to erode my trust in the media and in the left because they're going to try to use this to come up with some garbage take that somehow Justice Alito is going to have to recuse himself from all these cases. They're going to go through the same character assassination of him - by the way, I know this guy. A high character guy. That they go through on Clarence Thomas and any other conservative judge that cast decisions that they don't like. It's going to be total character assassination. It's totally unwarranted. It has nothing to do with anything. Alito is a high character person. And if they try to go down that route of a character assassination here it's going to be a travesty. But I - I assume that's where we're headed.

SIDNER: Justice Clarence Thomas' wife, we should mention, tried to be a part of stop the steal, if you will, in a much different way. There were text messages, et cetera, et cetera.

Bakari, what do you make of this?

SELLERS: Yes, no, I appreciate Scott lecturing me on what black voters need and want in this country. And so I would also let Scott know that many black voters in particular don't care much for Clarence Thomas in one of the cruelest tricks that white folk in this country's ever pulled on black folk has actually been replacing Clarence - Thurgood Marshall with Clarence Thomas. And so one of the things that's going to go into play is not just this court and the erosion of trust in this court, but the fact that Donald Trump has nominated three individuals on the Supreme Court. He has an opportunity, if he wins reelection, to replace two more, those two being Justice Alito and Clarence Thomas, the two individuals we're talking about today with ethical lapses to say it best.

And so I think that this is something - it's not going to be a character assassination, but what it is going to be used is to highlight the fact that this court is of the utmost importance, that we have a fight for this court on our hands.

[09:25:06]

And if you want to continue to have the erosion of progress that was made for people of color in particular, Justice Alito has been part of pulling that back and apparently he and his wife don't have any problem with being objectionable to just the regular eye.

SIDNER: Scott Jennings and Bakari Sellers, thank you so much.

I just want to quickly, quickly, quickly, Scott, you were at the PGA tour. We now have heard that the world's number one golfer, we've seen the pictures, arrested there. What do you make of all this, real quick?

JENNINGS: Well, it's a crazy story. I mean it's come in a big rainstorm this morning. There was a terrible, tragic traffic accident. Someone died. Scheffler got into some kind of an altercation with the police, got taken to jail, was put in an orange jumpsuit. He's been charged with numerous things, including one of them is a felony. And he's supposed to - I think he's back at the golf course now. He's supposed to tee off after 10:00. But this has been a hugely embarrassing morning for - SIDNER: Yes.

JENNINGS: For this golf tournament in Louisville. I hope it gets sorted out. And - but we should also say, someone lost their life in a traffic accident this morning which Scheffler was not involved in.

SIDNER: Right.

JENNINGS: And so our hearts go out to that family.

SIDNER: And he has been released. But there is a felony charge there. They say that it was a misunderstanding, according to Scheffler's people, to ESPN. This sounds like something that may be more serious.

Thank you so much, gentlemen. Appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: And we do appreciate our PGA reporter Scott Jennings giving us an update on that.

We've got much more information on this. The world number one golfer, you can see right there in the orange jumpsuit. What is going on with Scottie Scheffler? What is the explanation for this?

Stay with us.

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