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Federal Judge Found "Strong Evidence" Of Crimes Before Trump Charged In Classified Docs Case; Trump Speaks Today At Fundraiser Hosted By Top Oil Executives; WH Pushes Back On Move To Formally Recognize Palestinian State. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 22, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:49]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Donald Trump will not be in the courtroom, but the classified document case against him is taking a step forward today. Critics saying it is long overdue, as the judge seems to have played into Trump's favorite legal strategy of delay, delay, delay.

Plus, an unprecedented step by three countries leading to a furious reaction from Israel. How the decision to recognize a Palestinian state is playing out in Gaza, Israel and around the world.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And as Miami swelters under record heat, a meteorologist has some advice for his viewers. Get out and vote. Why his message about climate change and politics is striking a nerve in Florida and beyond.

We are following these major developing stories and many more. They're all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: Right now, former President Donald Trump's lawyers are inside a Florida courtroom, arguing in front of a federal judge, trying to get Trump's classified documents case dismissed. It's the first day of pretrial hearings since Judge Aileen Cannon delayed indefinitely the start of the trial. It had been scheduled to begin as early as this week.

So the hearing comes less than 24 hours after newly unsealed records revealed new details on Trump's alleged attempts to hide documents at Mar-a-Lago, including classified material found in the former president's own bedroom months after the FBI search. CNN's Katelyn Polantz is joining us now.

And, Katelyn, let's start first with this new information that we're learning from these unsealed documents.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Right. So these sealed documents, they were sealed, now they're unsealed. We just got them yesterday, hundreds of pages. And they're part of a pile of requests that the defense teams, Donald Trump and his co- defendants, Walt Nauta, Carlos De Oliveira, have made to Judge Aileen Cannon. She's working through them. There's a backlog of them. But one of them that is going to end up being a major issue that she

has to figure out before trial is whether the testimony from Donald Trump's former lawyer, Evan Corcoran, can be part of this case. He basically said Trump misled him and didn't give him all the - didn't give him access to all the classified documents when they had to turn everything over to the federal government. Thus, that's the obstruction case primarily against Donald Trump.

Judge Beryl Howell had looked at this issue a while ago with Evan Corcoran and said, yes, actually, it looks like there could be evidence of a crime here.

One of the things that was part of her analysis, she looked at a bunch of evidence. This is before Donald Trump was charged. And she noted that even after the FBI scoured Mar-a-Lago for classified records, finding hundreds of marked documents, ultimately charging about 21 from that collection, the team for Donald Trump found four additional classified records at Mar-a-Lago, as well as an empty folder and a, quote, "mostly empty folder marked classified evening summary" found in Donald Trump's bedroom.

Judge Howell wrote at the time, months ago, notably no excuse is provided as to how the former president could miss the classified marked documents found in his own bedroom at Mar-a-Lago. Thus, he gave prosecutors access to his former attorney. That's all going to be revisited quite a bit in this case coming forward.

SANCHEZ: And as far as today's proceedings, some tense moments as we're getting updates from inside the courtroom. Notably, it's not like the case in New York, in the courtroom there, where electronics are allowed in the room. You can't record things, but you can sort of send messages.

In Florida, you're handing physical written notes out of the courtroom, right?

POLANTZ: That's right.

SANCHEZ: So we're getting updates slowly.

POLANTZ: Evan Perez is in there. Hannah Rabinowitz is in there.

SANCHEZ: Handing notes, yes.

POLANTZ: They're passing notes out with information from what's going on. The morning hearing was one of these motions to dismiss. There's an afternoon hearing about that as well.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

POLANTZ: There were tense moments basically about a - some bad blood that has existed between the defense attorney for Walt Nauta and one of the prosecutors on Jack Smith's - special counsel's team going back months. That's what erupted in court.

[15:05:00] But what was being argued and what Judge Cannon will have to decide

based on the arguments today is whether the charges against Walt Nauta, the man in video and photos moving boxes, allegedly on behalf of Donald Trump to hide them from the federal government, whether he was selectively and vindictively prosecuted, that he was being pressured to cooperate against Trump, didn't, and that's why he got charged. His attorney takes issue with that.

Judge Cannon will look at it and we will get a ruling, probably not today, but you never know. Once it's been argued, she could rule at any time.

DEAN: All right, Katelyn Polantz with all the updates. Thanks so much for that reporting.

And let's talk more about this with CNN Legal Analyst Karen Friedman Agnifilo.

Walt Nauta claims he's being vindictively prosecuted by the DOJ in retaliation for declining to cooperate with this Justice Department's investigation as Katelyn was just outlining. The hearing this morning to discuss this claim devolved into a shouting match. Do you think that Nauta's argument has a chance here?

KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think there's a common tactic that prosecutors use when they are looking to bring a case, and they see people in varying degrees of culpability. Obviously, Donald Trump is the most culpable here and Walt Nauta is merely a pawn in this scheme to possess classified documents.

And so it's very common when you see someone who is a low-level person in a criminal conspiracy or a case to approach that person and give them an opportunity to cooperate and not necessarily have to be prosecuted in the same way that the head of this or the mastermind or whatever you want to call it, the main player in the crime.

And so he was given that opportunity, it looks like, to cooperate in lieu of being prosecuted. But I don't see any evidence, nor am I familiar with any tactic to vindictively prosecute someone because they don't cooperate. But like I said, giving him an opportunity to cooperate prior to prosecution is fairly standard. And so I don't think this could - should go anywhere because this is a fairly standard tactic that prosecutors utilize when they have a case against someone already built.

SANCHEZ: Going back to some of the details that were unsealed and some of the motions that we'll likely see the defense file in the future, I'm curious about this argument that the defense is making about Judge Howell and her assessment over some of the classified documents that were found in Mar-a-Lago months after the FBI search of the property. She essentially used that as justification to allow the prosecution to extract evidence from Evan Corcoran, a former attorney for Donald Trump that the prosecution argues he used as a front man, essentially, even blocking some of the information that was held at Mar-a-Lago from his own attorney, according to the prosecution. What do you make of that argument from the defense and Judge Howell's rulings or her assertion that Trump - that there was evidence that Trump seriously intended to commit a crime?

AGNIFILO: Yes. I mean, look, Evan Corcoran is definitely in the middle of all of this. And I think he knew he was being used as a pawn at the time because he took detailed notes about every interaction with Trump regarding these files, including things like his facial expression and things like that. Because I think - which is very uncommon, by the way, if you're representing someone that you're going to almost keep a diary, not just notes for yourself, but this is like verbatim word for word description. And I think it's - I think he did it because I think he knew he - this - he was being potentially used as a pawn to help facilitate these crimes.

And so I'm not surprised that Judge Howell found that to be the case and therefore pierced the attorney-client privilege. And he's very much in play as somebody involved in this case for both - you know, for the prosecution.

SANCHEZ: Karen Agnifilo, we have to leave the conversation there. Appreciate your perspective. Thanks for being with us.

AGNIFILO: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: So as Donald Trump's lawyers are trying to get his classified documents case dismissed in Florida, the former president is back on the campaign trail today in Texas, attending a series of fundraisers with wealthy donors, including energy and oil executives.

DEAN: CNN National Correspondent Kristen Holmes is joining us now.

Kristen, what more can you tell us about his plans for today, his travels?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So he is attending this series of fundraisers across Texas, and we're talking about big money here, not just the wealthiest people in Texas, but wealthiest people in the entire country, billionaires.

Now, the reason why it matters is that he has a series of fundraisers hosted by energy and oil executives.

[15:10:00]

This comes about a month after he hosted the same group down at Mar-a- Lago for dinner, and reportedly, essentially said to them when they were complaining about some of the restrictions that Biden administration has put into effect, well, why don't you give my campaign a billion dollars, I'll go back to the White House, and when I go back to the White House, all of that's going to be reversed.

Now, obviously, that has sparked some criticism from Democrats, but it is interesting to see him down there in the Lone Star Estate, his day off of court as he is getting ready for this jury deliberation, spending his time trying to continue to get that cash.

DEAN: Mm-hmm.

SANCHEZ: Kristen, he's also trying to walk back some comments he made about banning contraceptives, right?

HOLMES: Yes. This is going to be a continuation of a problem for Donald Trump, because anything surrounding women's rights, reproductive rights is going to be something Democrats seize on immediately, and Donald Trump continues to have missteps when it comes to the issue, even though he continues to try and walk this fine line between being the modern-day architect of overturning Roe v. Wade, but also not really wanting to talk about abortion.

So this latest incident happened after Donald Trump was asked during a local interview if he had any plans or any - would ever support any restrictions on contraceptives. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you support any restrictions on a person's right to contraception?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we're looking at that and I'm going to have a policy on that very shortly. And I think it's something that you'll find interesting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, that suggests that you may want to support some restrictions, like the morning-after pill or something.

TRUMP: Well, we are also - you know, things really do have a lot to do with the states.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: So this is his canned answer ...

SANCHEZ: Yes.

DEAN: Yes.

HOLMES: ... for anything involving reproductive rights, but this is not something that he has ever said privately or with his team when it comes to birth control or contraceptives. Almost immediately after this interview aired and started getting pick-up, he went onto Truth Social and posted this.

In all caps, he said never - that he had never and will ever advocate imposing restrictions on birth control, also adding, "I do not support a ban on birth control, and neither will the Republican Party."

Clearly, they are trying to backtrack on what he said.

DEAN: Some cleanup.

HOLMES: Yes.

DEAN: Yes.

HOLMES: Exactly.

SANCHEZ: He deployed a line we've heard from him often, which is a sort of like the two weeks ...

HOLMES: The states ...

SANCHEZ: ... like just ...

HOLMES: Right.

SANCHEZ: ... wait two weeks and we're going to show you something in about two weeks.

HOLMES: Right. And then instead of that - instead of waiting, though, we just got our Truth Social right away, so I don't think we're going to hear anything else on that.

DEAN: Yes, (INAUDIBLE) put that to an end, yes.

HOLMES: Exactly.

DEAN: Kristen Holmes, thanks.

Up ahead, Israel is responding after three U.S. allies announced plans to formally recognize a Palestinian state.

Plus, the families of those students killed in Uvalde nearly two years ago are filing a new lawsuit against more than 90 of the officers who responded to that deadly shooting.

SANCHEZ: And Florida lawmakers are removing references to climate change from state laws as it deals with record-breaking heat and flooding. And one local meteorologist has a message for everyone in his state.

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DEAN: The Biden administration is acknowledging concern about Israel's potentially growing diplomatic isolation amid its latest spat with several European countries. Today, the leaders of Norway, Spain and Ireland moved to recognize a Palestinian state in the coming days, calling it an important step toward peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEDRO SANCHEZ, SPANISH PRIME MINISTER (through interpreter): Next Tuesday, on the 28th of May, Spain will approve its Council of Ministers the recognition of the state of Palestine.

JONAS GAHR STORE, NORWEGIAN PRIME MINISTER (through interpreter): This is an investment in the only solution that can bring lasting peace in the Middle East.

SIMON HARRIS, IRISH PRIME MINISTER: In the lead-up to today's announcement, I've spoken with a number of other leaders and counterparts, and I'm confident that further countries will join us in taking this important step. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Earlier, the White House underscored President Biden's support for a two-state solution but said that a, quote, "Palestinian state should be realized through direct negotiations between the parties, not through unilateral recognition." CNN's Jeremy Diamond has been following the story live from Jerusalem for us.

Jeremy, Israel is obviously condemning this move. What more can you tell us about the reaction there?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. The Israeli government not only condemning this move but also taking the diplomatic step of recalling its ambassadors to Spain, Ireland and Norway. The Israeli foreign minister also summoning those countries' ambassadors to Israel to the foreign ministry for a formal reprimand, saying even that he would make them watch video of Israeli women being kidnapped on October 7th.

The Israeli prime minister, for his part, saying that recognizing a Palestinian state is tantamount to offering a reward for terror. And he's also making clear that he opposes the establishment of a Palestinian state altogether, saying that he believes a Palestinian state established today would be a "terror state," something that obviously the Palestinian Authority and the countries that recognize the state of Palestine today very much disagree with.

That's also a view very much at odds with the United States, which is seeking a two-state solution, hoping that this awful war that has unfolded in Gaza over the course of the last seven months could potentially lead to a pathway to a two-state solution.

Now, in terms of consequences, the Israeli foreign minister saying that there will be consequences for these countries, and its finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right member of Netanyahu's governing coalition, indicating that he will seek the approval of 10s of thousands of housing units in Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank, establishing new settlements in the West Bank, and also he is pushing to withhold tax revenue, Palestinian tax revenue, which Israel collects, but that is meant to go to the Palestinian Authority, already cash-strapped.

[15:20:05]

That could certainly be consequential. Overall, though, this move by these three countries, a very much a symbolic step, but one that once again underscores Israel's growing isolation on the world stage.

SANCHEZ: Jeremy Diamond, live for us in Jerusalem. Thank you so much.

Let's discuss all of this with Frank Lowenstein. He's a former Special Envoy to the Israeli-Palestinian Negotiators.

Thanks so much for being with us, Frank.

This move by Spain, Norway and Ireland pledging to join more than 140 other nations recognizing Palestinian statehood, how do you see it?

FRANK LOWENSTEIN, FORMER U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATORS: Well, I think it's really a reflection of just how frustrated the world has become with Prime Minister Netanyahu and his unwillingness to move in the direction of a two-state solution.

Norway in particular was interesting to me because they obviously brokered the Oslo Accords, which is the underlying agreement that governs the Israeli-Palestinian relationship right now. So they're obviously very invested in a negotiated outcome here. And for them to say we're going to go ahead and recognize a Palestinian state in the absence of any negotiations suggests to me just an extreme amount of frustration that pervades really the United States and all around the world.

SANCHEZ: Is it ultimately just a symbolic move, though?

LOWENSTEIN: Yes. It's entirely symbolic. As Jeremy mentioned, there's been 140 countries have already recognized Palestine. I think the real question is whether this puts additional pressure on Prime Minister Netanyahu. The Israelis have a tendency to really close ranks and view the world as lined up against them and they sort of consolidate their position around that.

But there is increasing pressure on Prime Minister Netanyahu from within his coalition to at least agree to some kind of a plan for the day after. And I think if Netanyahu continues to refuse to do that, we may very well see his coalition crumble, in which case you'd go to elections and you might have a very different sort of government in Israel.

SANCHEZ: I'm wondering how realistic you find the approach or the statement put out by the White House signaling their approach. They say that, well, President Biden is a strong supporter of a two-state solution that ultimately a Palestinian state should be brought about through direct negotiations between the two parties. Is that a realistic goal? Is that likely to come about that way?

LOWENSTEIN: We're a long way away from that right now, and I think that's why you're seeing states unilaterally recognize Palestine. I think the Biden administration is really pushing this notion of a grand bargain, where Saudi Arabia would normalize relations with Israel in return for Israel agreeing to a pathway to a Palestinian state.

I think there's been a lot of frustration with the Biden administration in terms of Prime Minister Netanyahu's unwillingness to even talk about a Palestinian state right now. So if you really want to make progress in that direction, you would have to have, I think, something like that that gave the Israelis an incentive to change course that they don't feel like they currently have.

SANCHEZ: Yes. I mean, let's break down that incentive for Netanyahu because if he does broker this deal, this normalization with Saudi Arabia in exchange for the United States entering into this sort of pact with Saudi Arabia as part of like a tri-lateral agreement, you could call it, what's in it ultimately for Israel here?

LOWENSTEIN: Well, normalization with Saudi Arabia is the grand prize for the Israelis, and I - when I was working on this issue under President Obama, Prime Minister Netanyahu was adamant that that was what the ultimate goal was for Israel. Because with Saudi Arabia, normalization comes normalization with the entire Arab world, which is the promise of the Arab Peace Initiative.

So for Israel, this is the kind of thing that in the past they would have jumped on. I think the fact that they're not even willing to pretend that they're interested in a two-state solution as a function of Prime Minister Netanyahu's really extreme coalition in their unwillingness to do anything that would help the Palestinian Authority or let alone advance towards two states.

SANCHEZ: Yes. I want to ask you about the CNN report yesterday that the ceasefire deal that Hamas agreed to earlier this month had been changed, that it had been altered by Egyptian intelligence after Israel had signed off on it, a moment that led U.S. officials, according to sources, to be embarrassed and enraged. How do you think this could happen?

LOWENSTEIN: Well, I think that the Egyptians and the Qataris are feeling an enormous amount of pressure to move towards a ceasefire, and I think they felt like they were really at a dead end there, and so they were willing to push it a little beyond what the Israelis had agreed to in order to get Hamas on board in hopes that they could get the Israelis on board.

But I think the bigger question is, does Netanyahu want a ceasefire, does Hamas want a ceasefire. And my sense is neither side really wants a ceasefire at this point. Bibi wants to continue the Rafah attack and otherwise prosecute the war to its conclusion in his view.

And I think Hamas thinks that Netanyahu is stepping into a trap in Rafah, and they're seeing all this isolation that Israel is experiencing and thinking that the war is going in their favor. So whatever may have happened specifically with the negotiations, I think the bigger picture is that neither side was really ready.

SANCHEZ: Frank Lowenstein, thanks for being with us.

LOWENSTEIN: Thanks for having me.

SANCHEZ: Still to come, two years after the deadly school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, families of the victims have reached a major settlement with city leaders, but they say their fight is far from over.

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DEAN: We're following breaking news this afternoon. The company attempting to foreclose on Elvis Presley's Memphis home, Graceland, says they will not proceed now with their claims.

SANCHEZ: Yes. CNN's Isabel Rosales has been following this for us. Isabel, what's the latest?

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Boris, Jessica, it's another crazy chapter to this whirlwind, bizarre legal battle.

[15:30:03]

This foreclosure auction that was scheduled for tomorrow, but now the company behind this foreclosure.