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Now: Jury Deliberating In Trump Criminal Hush Money Trial; Zero-Down Mortgages Are Making A Comeback; Study: Possible Link Between Tattoos And Cancer. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired May 30, 2024 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

LEON PANETTA, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF, CLINTON ADMINISTRATION: Obviously, you know, we can continue to proceed with our position.

But we're going to have to pay close attention. You know, when you -- when you get into a situation in Rafah where your forces are there and they're confronting an enemy, it's oftentimes very difficult to put limits on how they approach fighting an enemy.

And that really -- you know, that -- that really does involve a lot of risks here as to whether or not this red line is ultimately going to be crossed or not.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yes, this could snowball right across that red line as many people see it.

Secretary, great to have you. Leon Panetta, thank you.

PANETTA: Good to be with you.

KEILAR: We're going to take you back to New York for the latest on jury deliberations in the Trump hush money trial. Up next, we'll be speaking with a retired judge who has been in court watching proceedings every day of this trial.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:35:24]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: The jury in former President Donald Trump's historic criminal hush money trial is once again behind closed doors and deliberating. Earlier today, they reheard portions of the jury instructions.

Here's what the reading of the instructions that Judge Juan Merchan covered: Reasonable doubt, how the law addresses the concept of an accomplice, in this case, Michael Cohen, the requirement to find the defendant guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree, definitions for enterprise, business record and intent as well.

Joining us now is retired New York Criminal Court Judge George Grasso. He's been in court every day since the trial began. Judge, thanks so much for being with us.

What's your take on the jurors asking for these instructions to be re- read?

GEORGE GRASSO, RETIRED JUDGE, QUEENS COUNTY SUPREME COURT: Great to be with you, Boris.

Well, it shows me, number one, that this is a very serious jury. This jury really is taking their job - they're taking their job to heart. They want to -- they're not just diving in.

And it's very unusual, frankly, in my experience that, on the first day of deliberations, which was yesterday, the jury sent a note out that they wanted to have such a wide swath of the judge's instructions re-read to them.

That shows us that they are doing exactly what they should be doing in this case. They're going to dot the "I"s and cross the "T"s.

SANCHEZ: Does this make you more or less confident that this jury is going to be able to reach a unanimous verdict and not wind up a hung jury?

GRASSO: It actually makes me more confident that we're going to get a unanimous verdict in this case. Because they appear to be acting as a team.

You know, one thing that I was able to do when the instructions were being read, -- they were being read for about 40 minutes. Since I already took extensive notes of the instructions previously, yesterday, I spent the majority of that time carefully observing each juror.

I was making a couple of notes about how I saw them. And in particular, I noticed the foreman, jury number one, juror number one, he was just so locked in, locked in in a way that I hadn't noticed him before.

Every juror -- and I watched this very carefully from my vantage point inside the courtroom -- they were literally hanging on every one of the judge's words.

It -- let me tell you, as a judge who has delivered instructions to jurors, you just don't see it like that so often. So very impressed.

So this tells me they're starting in as a team. They're going to do this as a team. And I think they're going to work hard to come to verdict. But I wanted to hold my breath about hearing of them getting a verdict today or maybe even tomorrow. We may go into next week on this. I wouldn't be surprised.

SANCHEZ: So, Judge, former President Trump falsely claimed that Judge Merchan is not requiring a unanimous verdict from this jury.

A fact check, what he actually instructed them was that they -- they do have to agree that the defendant conspired to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means.

What they don't have to agree on is what those unlawful means were, right? They can choose from several different unlawful means.

Would you have handled instructions in the same way? Do you think that leaves room for ambiguity among the jurors?

GRASSO: Well, let's just start off by saying anybody who's out there -- and I understand that -- I heard there was a lot of commentary on what we'll call right-wing media that a unanimous verdict is not being required in this case. Is totally absolutely and completely false.

The jury must ultimately find President Trump, anonymously, they must be unanimous on the crimes from the 34 counts that each charge with. That unambiguous. And people must understand that.

In terms of the judge's ruling, in terms of the path -- the path there, the unlawful means part of New York -- New York election law, which is the connection offense to the false business records that gets us to the felony, I think it's a reasonable ruling under the circumstance.

I've witnessed mountains of evidence regarding multiple unlawful means, criminal-type violations.

[13:40:03]

Whether it's the FICO law, whether it's Michael Cohen's making illegal entries on bank documents in order to set up LLCs claiming they were real estate consulting when really it was designed to funnel this so- called hush money payment to Stormy Daniels.

If Mr. Trump is found to have had enough awareness and approval of those kinds of activities, they would be the unlawful means. So I think the judge is taking the right path. It is sensible.

But let's be clear. A unanimous verdict on the 34 counts is absolutely required. Anyone who says differently either doesn't know or, even worse, is trying to intentionally, intentionally fool the public.

SANCHEZ: Judge George Grasso, we very much appreciate you sharing your insights with us. Thanks.

GRASSO: Thank you, sir.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still to come on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, down payments are a real problem for Americans who would love to buy a home. But one of the nation's largest mortgage lenders is changing that. It is something that is now worrying certain housing experts, though. We'll talk about it.

And a tip. If you're charged with driving with a suspended license, you probably shouldn't show up to a court hearing via Zoom while you're driving. What the judge had to say about this, when we come back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:45:51]

SANCHEZ: One of the country's largest mortgage lenders is offering homebuyers the deal of a lifetime, zero down on your dream home. But the new program is making experts nervous about how these loans might backfire.

KEILAR: And for some, it's bringing back some bad memories. Think 2008 financial crisis and the Great Recession.

We have CNN's Matt Egan joining us now to explain.

All right, tell us about this, Matt. How does the program work? Is there a catch? Are they going to be more judicious about who they give these loans to?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Boris and Brianna, we know a lot of people would love to buy right now, but they just don't have enough money for a down payment.

And so this major mortgage lender is trying to come up with a solution by getting rid of the down payments all together. Now this comes from United Wholesale Mortgage. They've launched this 0 percent down payment mortgage program. Yes, 0 percent down.

It's open to first-time homebuyers and lower-income borrowers. And essentially, it's two loans. The first one covers 97 percent of the value of the home. And the second one is the remaining 3 percent, up to $15,000.

Now, experts are stressing that borrowers really have to read and understand the fine print here. Because the good news is that second loan, it's interest free, which is great. And there are no monthly payments.

Now if there's a catch, it's the fact that that's second loan, it doesn't go away. It is due in full when the mortgage is paid off, refinanced or the home is sold.

Now, the mortgage company told me that the demand for this 0 percent down mortgage is off the charts. They just launched it two weeks ago and they've already gotten thousands of applications.

SANCHEZ: So, Matt, what more or experts saying about the parallels between this and 2008?

EGAN: Yes, 0 percent down, what could possibly go wrong, right?

(LAUGHTER)

EGAN: Listen, here's the issue. The issue is that the borrower is going to have no equity in the home at all. And home prices are at historic highs. So, sure, home prices continue to go up and up, but eventually, that may stop. And the problem is that if home prices actually go down, then the

borrowers would instantly be underwater. Meaning they owe more than the home is actually worth. That's exactly what we saw during the subprime mortgage meltdown.

So imagine a scenario where someone has to sell their home because they lose their job or they have to relocate, well, they still owe that second mortgage in full.

And if they can't come up with the cash, well, they could face foreclosure, they could damage their credit.

That's why Better Markets CEO Dennis Kelleher, he told me that this program has the potential to, quote, "turn the American dream of home ownership almost immediately into a nightmare."

Now the company is pushing back, saying that this program is good for consumers and that critics are, quote, "uneducated about the current state of the industry."

At the end of the day, Boris and Brianna, this is clearly a potential solution to the affordability problem. But it's just really important that borrowers understand what they're getting into because this is a solution that is not without risks.

KEILAR: And just to be clear, you said that 3 percent loan, it maxes out at $15,000. Is that right?

EGAN: That's right, up to $15,000.

KEILAR: All right. We'll continue to follow this. It's really interesting.

Matt Egan, thank you so much.

EGAN: Thank you.

[13:49:16]

KEILAR: And still to come, could there be a possible link between tattoos and a type of cancer? I know that's going to get the attention of a lot of people. So we're going to talk about this new warning from researchers, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: So one-third of all Americans have a tattoo, but a new study is raising concerns about their impact on your health.

KEILAR: That's right. The research suggests a potential link between tattoos and an increased risk of malignant lymphoma -- pardon me -- lymphoma, which is a type of cancer that affects your lymphatic system.

CNN health reporter, Jacqueline Howard, is here to break this down for us. And we should mention, Jacqueline, that some experts are skeptical. I

think that's really important. Tell us what's happening here.

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: That's right, Brianna. What this study showed, it looked at nearly 12,000 people in Sweden, and it found that those who had tattoos had a 21 percent increased risk of malignant lymphoma. That's in comparison with people who had no tattoos.

But the reason why there is some skepticism here, this is a correlation. It does not imply causation. So there's no like direct link saying that the tattoos may cause cancer.

And the researchers say we need to learn more about this relationship. They think it might have something to do with the tattoo ink itself. Often, ink contains carcinogens within it.

[13:55:05]

But the researchers found no evidence that if you have more tattoos, you have an even higher risk. So there are still many questions to answer.

And the main takeaway from scientists here is that we need to do more study in this area.

Lymphoma itself is rare, but, of course, there are many people with tattoos out there. Here in the United States, about 32 percent of adults have a tattoo.

So any research in this space, of course, will get a lot of attention -- Boris and Brianna?

SANCHEZ: Yes. I hope that lower back tat I got back in spring break, '02, doesn't come back to bite me.

KEILAR: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Jacqueline Howard, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

KEILAR: Might have to put off the show logo tat --

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: -- that we we're talking about getting, right?

SANCHEZ: Yes.

KEILAR: Delay that.

SANCHEZ: Let's delay it until we get some --

KEILAR: More information, we need that.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Turning now to a wild story. This, you have to see. A judge in Michigan was stunned after a man accused of driving on a suspended license made a virtual court appearance while driving.

Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Are you driving?

CORY HARRIS, DEFENDANT: Actually, I'm pulling into my doctor's office.

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: This is a driving while license suspended?

UNIDENTIFIED ATTORNEY: That is correct, Your Honor.

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: He doesn't have a license, he's suspended, and he's just driving.

The defendant needs to turn himself into the Washington County Jail by 6:00 p.m. today. Failure to turn himself in will result in a bench warrant with no bond.

HARRIS: Oh, my god.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: What were you expecting, my friend?

All right. So as you heard, the judge there revoked Cory Harris' bond, ordered him to turn himself in to a local county jail the same day.

CNN has reached out to his lawyer for comment but has not yet heard back about what is really turning into a viral moment.

SANCHEZ: You didn't see you it in the video, but there's a moment where the judge is looking at people in the courtroom --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: -- like is this real life? Is this actually happening?

KEILAR: It is real life, Judge.

SANCHEZ: Ah.

KEILAR: He did not get that at all.

(LAUGHTER

SANCHEZ: Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We're back in just a few moments.

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