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John Hultquist is Interviewed about Cyber Threats on Paris Olympics; GOP Lawmakers Stand by Trump After Conviction; Biden Ramps Up Attacks on Trump; Rep. John Rose (R-TN) and his Son are Interviewed about his Son Stealing the Show During a Floor Speech; FDA Considers MDMA Therapy. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired June 04, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The new use of AI and these efforts.

How are you seeing AI change the threat landscape as it relates to - this, obviously, has to do with mostly - maybe mostly disinformation, but as it relates to the Olympics, but - but far beyond when you're looking at cyberthreats?

JOHN HULTQUIST, CHIEF ANALYST, MANDIANT: Well, we're seeing a lot of different actors use AI really to fabricate content, right? And they use that in social engineering, or as part of what we call information operations. It's just a good way for them to create these fake images or videos.

The good news is it's not a panacea, right? They can't necessarily solve all their problems. And they've been doing this actually for years now. And they've - before that they use Photoshop and other tools.

You know, what we are - you know, our concern is that they're, you know, gathering - they're using it to sort of up -- up there - up their game. But the good news is, is that, you know, all these actors are - are trying to sort of pierce the public conversation with this activity. And once they do that, they sort of come onto our radar. The weird thing about this is, is this is a group that's trying to create engagement, but at the same time remain covert. And that's really hard to accomplish.

BOLDUAN: Yes, I would say so.

You were - you were kind enough to let me have a sneak peek of Mandiant report, which I believe is it out tomorrow. And the report highlights who the potential targets are of some of these operations currently and in the near future with regard to the Olympics. The IOC, athletes and teams, physical infrastructure of the games, and of the city, Paris, ticketing systems and tourists.

With all that in mind, what's your level of confidence that if they've got a heads up on it from your good work and others, the - what's the level of confidence that the IOC, France and others are prepared for this?

HULTQUIST: Well, you know, they have some experience here. I - you know, I've dealt with them in the past and they're incredibly confident. Francis is incredibly confident in this space as well. And there's a - be a major team of players who are sort of working together to fight these actors off.

Ultimately, even if they do carry out an operation, that operation is going to be designed to manipulate our perceptions and make us think that things are far worse than they truly are. And by talking about this stuff right now, we're actually, you know, fighting back.

BOLDUAN: That's a great point.

One quick question. It all seems to be connected to Russia being banned from the Olympics. If Russia hadn't been banned from the Olympics, do you think this would not be happening?

HULTQUIST: I think that with - circumstances might be a little bit different. But I think this is also an opportunity to strike a blow it French prestige, right? The, you know, the host nation is highly tied to - highly tied to the - the games. And, you know, the geopolitical situation is really never been worse.

You know, I discussed - I talked about some earlier attacks. Those actually happened before the war in Ukraine, right? So, the situation is - is far different now. And that - that might make them even more likely to carry out an attack.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

John Hultquist, it's great to see you. Thanks so much for coming in.

Ahead for us, there's a new threat also to shut down the government, all in the name of protecting Donald Trump. The Republican lawmaker maker pushing for this. We've got more on that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:37:59]

BOLDUAN: Trump allies on Capitol Hill appear ready to take some drastic measures now in response to Donald Trump's criminal conviction. Georgia Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene telling our Manu Raju that House Speaker Mike Johnson should shut down the government over the guilty verdict. She's got a lot of advice for Mike Johnson recently, clearly.

House Judiciary Chair Jim Jordan has proposed defunding what he calls politicized prosecutions.

CNN's Lauren Fox has more on this from Capitol Hill.

What's this all about? How serious are these efforts?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, these are efforts that in some ways we have seen before. These are conversations that some of these members, like Jim Jordan, have had been having for the course of the last several years, Jim Jordan sort of tried this last year with a series of amendments on some of the spending bills to try to block funding for things like the new FBI headquarters. They are also talking about trying to slash funding for any kind of what they are viewing as weaponized prosecutions.

Now, the issue is that last year when they tried some of these strategies, they were unable to pass these amendments on the House floor. That caused issues with moving forward with Republican only spending bills. And, ultimately, that resulted in Speaker Mike Johnson cutting a deal with Democrats in order to keep the government funding.

Yesterday, Jim Jordan sent a new letter to the new Appropriations chairman, Tom Cole, a list some of his requests. And some of them are those same items we saw last year, cutting back on what are - what they are calling weaponized prosecutions, as well as cutting funding for the new FBI headquarters. Their argument is that they should be cutting funding for the FBI, making sure that they're doing nothing except what in the Republican's view is their job description.

Now, it's interesting because there are some senators who say that Jim Jordan is going in the right direction. We heard yesterday from one of the senators from North Dakota who made clear that this is something that Republicans should be fighting for. And they should be doing this because they are arguing that DOJ is being unfair to Donald Trump.

[08:40:06]

Now, Democrats say that this is just an example of Republicans trying to rush to their political advocates' side at a time when they say nothing is happening at the Justice Department that's unfair.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, Lauren Fox, great to see you. Tracking it all, as always for us.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona, and former Trump administration official Matt Mowers.

I want to play a bit of sound that Mitch Landrieu, the former New Orleans mayor, who is one of the chairs of the Biden re-elect campaign, what he told us the morning after Donald Trump's criminal conviction, because it might be connected to what we're seeing on Capitol Hill.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITCH LANDRIEU, CO-CHAIR, BIDEN REELECTION CAMPAIGN: Joe Biden, as you know, gets up every day thinking about the American people, thinking about trying to preserve our freedom, preserving democracy, making lives better if everybody else. And Donald Trump wakes up every day thinking about himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, Matt, on that point, and here's the connection, does this play into that argument from some Democrats? Because now on Capitol Hill, where I don't think people have found them to be overly functional the last several months, they're now saying it really is all about Donald Trump and just about Donald Trump.

Matt.

MATT MOWER, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, the most important thing is with Donald Trump says. And as long as Donald Trump goes out there and campaigns - and you saw this, even some of his comments on Friday, and even after the jury made their decision on Thursday, what he was talking about, he talked about immigration. He talked about crime. There's been some conversation about the economy. If the campaign - and the Trump campaign writ large, can keep the focus on their, then they're going to be able to win this election. And you see that in poll after poll, whether it's, you know, President Biden's approval rating right now on immigration, which is remarkably upside down right now, in spite of some of the conversations about signing some johnny-to-lately executive orders around the board. You look at his most recent approval rating number that came out last week, end of last week, and he's around minus 23 percent. Nothing about what happens on Capitol Hill is going to turn that around for Joe Biden. So, as long as Donald Trump keeps the focus on where it needs to happen.

And I would expect you are going to see some of his allies on Capitol Hill, though, try to, you know, take on the action that they feel like they need to do, which is to satisfy the Republican Base.

BERMAN: But, Matt, just very quickly, one more on this, Matt, because I've heard you say that occasionally Republicans and Donald Trump fall into the trap, actually more than fall in, maybe plunge into the trap of it being, you know, me, me, me, me, me, less about issues, Matt.

MOWER: Sure. And - but I will say, I think right now you're seeing a hyper-partisan environment since Thursday. I mean we've had it in American politics for about four years. But since Thursday it's the reason you're seeing over, you know, $50 million raised for the Trump campaign in the course of 24 hours. All this is going to do is serve to gin up the base for the meantime, but then ultimately that's going to give the resources to the Trump campaign and others to go out there and campaign on the economy, immigration, crime.

BERMAN: Maria.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'll answer the question that Matt really couldn't answer, John, and that is that Mitch Landrieu is absolutely right and everything that is going on, on Capitol Hill right now, is focused on that and points to that. And not only that, the press conference that Donald Trump gave right

after he became a convicted felon was unhinged. It was all about him. It was all about how he was complaining about retribution and vengeance and telling the American people, if this can happen to me, it can happen to you, which we all know that's just garbage and gibberish.

And if you want to look at polls, let's look at the polls that have come out after this conviction that says that the majority of the American people, including independents, say that this was a fair trial, say, don't believe all of the lies and conspiracy theories coming out of Donald Trump's mouth and of his MAGA allies' mouths saying that this was rigged.

So, the more that Donald Trump and his MAGA allies and lemmings and puppets try to continue to focus on that this was a rigged system, that this is all about Democrats trying to take down Donald Trump, it plays into that message that Donald Trump is in this for himself, that he's in this to try to stay out of prison, and that frees up Joe Biden and his campaign to continue communicating the message that he is in it to continue to help the American people.

BERMAN: I will say, one of the reasons I asked Matt that question is -

MOWERS: John, can I -

BERMAN: Yes, OK, because, Matt, you've consistently actually said the focus needs to be on beyond just Trump the person.

MOWERS: Yes. And it does. And actually just to go back to one thing Maria mentioned. If you look at a Morning Consult poll that came out actually this morning, and I've got imagine it's incredibly frustrating for the Biden campaign, it's incredibly frustrating for the White House, because the new polling that came up shows them down a point to Donald Trump despite being up a point after the trial on Thursday. Already the, you know, rest of the policies and the viewpoints of the American people on Joe Biden's policies are coming back to the forefront this election.

[08:45:08]

That's where this is going to be decided.

So, you know, as much as the Trump campaign and folks on Capitol Hill can focus on those issues, they're going to win. As much as Joe Biden gets distracted talking about Donald Trump, he's going to lose.

BERMAN: Maria, we've only got about 45 seconds left. I do want your take on the executive action that we're expecting from President Biden later today on the border. Perhaps completely, you know, stopping asylum seeker once border encounters reach a certain level.

CARDONA: Sure. And what I'll say is, and this will actually connect to what Matt just said is, this is Joe Biden, the president, taking action when Republicans have been completely unable and unwilling to do so, when they - all they want to do is weaponize the issue of the border. They even rejected their own conservative border bill.

And so this is Joe Biden taking matters into his own hands with a completely - a Congress that is unwilling to do anything. But Joe Biden has to continue to lean into this immigration issue and find a balanced approach, strong border security, which Democrats have all always been about, as well as expanded legal pathways. That's what the American voters want. And that is the real solution.

But we know that Donald Trump and Republicans absolutely do not want to solve this issue. They want to weaponize it because they are desperate for something that they believe will let them win. But this is not something that the American people are going to accept.

BERMAN: We're going to have to leave it there. Matt Mowers, Maria Cardona, thanks to both of you.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, when take your kid to work goes terribly wrong and also absolutely terribly exactly correct. He's first, so adorable. One Tennessee Republican learned that in spectacular fashion yesterday. And they are both now on their way to the studio to meet with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:51:21]

BERMAN: So, this morning, a Chinese lunar probe is on its way back to earth after collecting rock and soil samples on the far side of the moon. It also placed a Chinese flag on the lunar surface. A successful return home would make China the first country to return samples from the far side of the moon, which always faces away from the earth.

This morning, Fresh Start produce has issued a recall alert for its fresh cucumbers due to possible salmonella contamination. The potentially tainted cucumbers were sold in at least 14 states between May 17th and 21st.

So, for those who say members of Congress act like children, they now have a new role model. A child. In fact, the child of Tennessee Congressman John Rose. The six-year-old Guy sat behind his father when he gave a speech on the New York criminal conviction against Donald Trump. And just watch for a second. Let this sink in. There he is. A running commentary perhaps on the speech being given on the House floor.

And with us now Congressman John Rose and Guy.

And, Congressman, I note that you have your son in front of you this time as opposed to behind you. Why?

REP. JOHN ROSE (R-TN): Good tip from you I think. That's probably where I need to keep him going forward. But he was - I had told him before I gave this speech, I said, his three-year-old brother, Sam, is back at home. And I said, you should smile for Sam while we're on the camera. And he took that a little further than I expected. KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: I just want to go over, does - Guy, can you

hear us too?

GUY ROSE, SON OF REP. JOHN ROSE: Uh-huh.

BOLDUAN: OK, good.

What did you think walking into that big room and what dad told you when you were going to be sitting there.

J. ROSE: Tell them what you thought. You can say it out loud. What did you think?

G. ROSE: I can't - I didn't hear them.

They asked you what you thought when you walked into the House chamber yesterday.

G. ROSE: Good.

J. ROSE: What were you thinking about telling Sam?

G. ROSE: Sam.

J. ROSE: Did you spell his name with your hands?

G. ROSE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Oh, is that what he was doing? Is that what everyone was like making jokes of like this - there's a conspiracy theory of what he was doing with his hands? Oh, I'm loving that. I thought it was just new dance moves.

J. ROSE: Yes, no, it was - Sam.

BERMAN: That's very good. Congressman, by the way, that's impressive. Just in and of itself right there I enjoy that.

Guy, what did - what did Sam think of what you did in Congress?

J. ROSE: Did Sam - tell them. Talk to them.

G. ROSE: He - he thought it was good.

BOLDUAN: He did think it was good.

Congressman, this is also proving anytime I bring my children to repeat anything they just told me in private in public, this is exactly what happens.

So, I'm so glad we were connected on this front - on this front.

J. ROSE: Exactly.

BOLDUAN: When did you realize, Congressmen, that your son has - had stolen the show and you now need to go back to the House floor and remake your remarks because no one was listening? When did - did you have any clue this is going on behind you?

J. ROSE: I didn't have a single clue. And not until I was walking off the floor, one of the floor managers said, you're probably going to want to watch that video when you get back to your office.

And - and when I saw it, then I knew at least there was going to probably be some reaction. I had no idea it would be as extensive as it has been.

[08:55:03]

BERMAN: Guy, I think you can make even better faces than the ones you made on the House floor. I was impressed, but - but what other faces can you do?

J. ROSE: You got any other faces, buddy?

BOLDUAN: I - I mean -

G. ROSE: A lot of other. I can't show them all. OK.

J. ROSE: Give them -

BERMAN: Just some.

J. ROSE: Let's give one for them.

G. ROSE: You want me to show one of them I've already done or you want to show me a new one?

J. ROSE: Maybe a new.

BERMAN: Let's go new.

BOLDUAN: We want new material.

G. ROSE: OK.

BOLDUAN: Congressman, is this a daily occurrence in your - in your household?

J. ROSE: It's usually pretty active. Sam and Guy can be pretty rambunctious kids. So - but they're pretty good kids.

BOLDUAN: Of course there. He - look, let's be honest, he could have been a lot worse sitting behind you that making faces. I mean you - how could you make him come and sit in the chamber. The other members fall asleep having to do that, Congressman. You're mean.

J. ROSE: He did take a power nap after his newfound fame arrived yesterday.

BERMAN: How has Guy prepared you for dealing with your fellow members of Congress?

J. ROSE: Well, you know, you - you point out a good - a good - or you making a good point, which is that sometimes children can be very reflective of what adults really end up doing too. So, maybe his antics are not that far out of place on the House floor.

BOLDUAN: And also a reminder of, no matter where you land on any political spectrum, we all have kids that are really good at embarrassing us and putting us in our place.

J. ROSE: That's right.

BERMAN: Congressman John Rose, Guy - Guy up top. All can say is - is - is up top.

Thanks so much for being with us.

BOLDUAN: And congrats on starting summer break, Guy. Have a great summer and please continue to terrorize your dad as much as possible. It's only - it's so much fun.

G. ROSE: OK.

J. ROSE: Thanks for having us on this morning.

BERMAN: Thank you so much, Congressman.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

I mean -

BERMAN: Listen, I've got two of them. They're - they 're older than that right now. But I'm - the whole time I'm thinking, you know, there but for the grace of God go I.

BOLDUAN: I - if I showed this clip to Cecelia or Delphine, they'll be like, taking notes.

BERMAN: Taking notes.

BOLDUAN: Taking notes.

Let's turn to this right now.

A panel of drug advisors are meeting today to consider whether the FDA should approve MDMA, the drug commonly known as ecstasy, for treating post-traumatic stress disorder. If approved, this therapy would be the first potential new PTSD treatment in 25 years.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta is joining us now with more.

Sanjay, talk to us about what you're learning on -

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

BOLDUAN: About how effective MDMA could be and is with treating PTS.

GUPTA: Yes. Yes, I mean, this is some - these are some interesting data that's coming out of this. I mean there is a lot of interest in the use of psychedelics as medicine. And there's going to be a lot of focus on this particular meeting. If this carries fourth, I think this may usher in other psychedelics as medicines. If it stalls, I think it's going to stall psychedelics overall for some time.

But here - let me - let me tell you what - what they - they looked at specifically. A capsule of MDMA by Lykos Pharmaceuticals was studied in phase three trials specifically for post-traumatic stress. For people who were receiving the capsule, they had an 87 percent reduction in their symptoms compared to placebo, which was 69 percent. Now both groups, I should point out, also got talk therapy. If you look at how many people actually said, look, my symptoms went away completely in the MDMA group versus the placebo group, the results were even a little bit more promising. You had about 71 percent of people who - in that - in that MDMA group who said their symptoms went away completely versus about 48 percent in the placebo group.

So, this is going to be the focus of the attention here. These are small studies still. This is an advisory committee meetings, so there's a lot of steps. But that's what's getting all the attention.

BOLDUAN: And I know that a report prepared for the FDA for today's meeting did raise some doubts about this therapy. What are the concerns?

GUPTA: Yes. I think there's several, but there's a couple big ones. One is that there can be some cardiac heart concerns with this. This MDMA, methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ph), is what it stands for. It can raise your blood pressure, heart rate. Might that be a problem? Might there be an impact on the liver?

But sort of a broader concern, Kate, with psychedelic trials is that it's very hard to do a blinded trial. People generally know when they're getting the psychedelic versus when they're getting a placebo, right, unlike a lot of other medications. So, can you really do a blinded trial? In fact, they asked the participants in these groups afterward, do you know what you actually received? And in the MDMA group, the vast majority of people knew that they got it, 94 percent, I believe knew that they actually were getting that MDMA.

[09:00:00]

In the placebo group, most of the people knew that they weren't getting it. So, that - that's the real concern.

You know, I've been reporting on this for a long time, Kate.