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Any Moment: Opening Statements In Hunter Biden Federal Gun Trial; Time: Biden "Uncertain" Whether Israel Committed War Crimes In Gaza; Biden Ramps Up Attacks On Trump, Calls Him A "Convicted Felon". Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired June 04, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: The placebo group, most of the people knew that they weren't getting it, so that's the real concern.

You know, I've been reporting on this for a long time, Kate. We -- we spoke to this woman over 10 years ago, Rachel (ph), who was part of one of the early trials. She was -- as a young child, she had been abused, she had been raped, she had post-traumatic stress, never really got any relief, and then joined this trial for MDMA. Again, this was over 10 years ago. Just look at a little bit of what happened to her during that session.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the place where we do the study, this is where we meet with people, and then this is where we do the MDMA sessions.

GUPRA (voice-over): Intense psychotherapy, including eight-hour sessions after taking a capsule of MDMA, of ecstasy. Now, listen closely. On this tape, you can hear Rachel (ph), along with Dr. Mithoe (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I could turn to you and say, I really need. Keep guiding me, keep guiding.

I felt as if my whole brain was powered up like a Christmas tree, all at once.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: Look, you know, there's going to be a lot of focus on this again. She essentially was describing a reset of her brain, and within weeks, 90 percent of her symptoms, which had been with her, her whole life, adult life, went away. And that's what the advisory committee meeting is going to be talking about today, Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: I mean, huge potential, especially when, as you well point out, it's been 25 years since there's been a new medical treatment out for PTS. GUPTA: That's right.

BOLDUAN: It's really amazing. Sanjay, it's great to see you. Thank you so much.

And in a new hour of "CNN News Central" starts now.

Laying out their case. Opening statements are about to begin in the federal gun trial of Hunter Biden, and new details on how prosecutors plan to use very personal testimony to make their case to the jury.

And new this morning, President Biden telling Time Magazine in a new interview he is, quote, uncertain whether Israel has committed war crimes in Gaza.

And Merrick Garland fighting back. His message to Republican lawmakers this morning, I will not be intimidated. The hearing that's about to get underway.

I'm Kate Bolduan with John Berman. Sara Sidner is out today. This is" CNN News Central."

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, truly at any moment now, opening statements will begin at Hunter Biden's federal gun trial. The 54- year-old arrived at the courthouse just a few minutes ago. Prosecutors will begin laying out their case this morning.

We do know the special counsel will call about a dozen witnesses to the stand. In a new court filing, we learned that three of those witnesses are Hunter Biden's former romantic partner.

CNN's Paula Reid is outside the court this morning. Paula, what are you expecting to see?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, just a few moments ago, the first lady, Jill Biden, arrived here at court. That is especially notable because she is scheduled to head to France with her husband this evening, but she is still here today to show support for her stepson as this trial gets underway.

In a short time, we expect to hear opening statements from defense attorneys and prosecutors. This is their opportunity to lay out their theory of this case before the jury.

Let's talk a little bit about this jury. It was really interesting yesterday, the jury selection process. In many ways, it was a reminder of America's drug addiction epidemic, because the vast majority of potential jurors said that, yes, they had some experience with drug addiction when it came to a loved one or even themselves.

Now, the eventual jury is comprised of six men, six women. The majority of this jury is black. There are several gun owners on the jury, including one juror who says, even if you smoke marijuana, you still have the right to own a firearm. And several of the jurors who said that they have experience with loved ones and drug addiction also made it on the jury. So today, they'll hear opening statements, and then once those wrap up, the first witness we expect to hear from is an FBI agent who worked on this case. Now, this is one of several federal agents who will likely testify during this case, in addition to some of Hunter's romantic partners.

So, this case is expected to last anywhere from three to four days to two weeks. Unclear how this is going to turn out, though. This jury, several sources close to Hunter Biden say they believe it's favorable for them. But we'll see, John.

BERMAN: Good to have you there, Paula Reid. Keep us posted. Thank you very much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: And joining us right now to talk about where things are headed today, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Joey Jackson, and also criminal defense attorney, Bill Brennan. Thanks for being here, guys.

Joey, what are you expecting from openings or what needs to happen in openings?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Kate, good morning to you. And William, listen, the bottom line is that it's about the battle of narratives. If you're the prosecutor, it's pretty straightforward. There are laws, and those laws need to be applied to all. And if you're addicted, you cannot indicate on a form that you're not and purchase a weapon. That would be called a lie.

[09:05:07]

So, to be in illegal possession of that firearm makes you guilty. If you are on the flip side the defense, this is about the demonization of an addict. This is about stamping on someone where they're down. This is about shaming someone and humiliation. And we shouldn't be here.

The reality is, is that you're going to learn a number of things. Did he form that is Hunter Biden, the mental state such that he would intentionally do this? Are those forms even reliable? Can you put your trust in them? And at the end of the day, I think you'll find that we are a society that should be uplifting addicts, not attempting for people who don't believe that they're addicts at the time to criminalize them. He's not guilty at all. It'll be the battle of the narratives, Kate, in the courtroom today.

BOLDUAN: Jumping off right where Joey left off, Bill, we, as Paula was laying out six men, six women on this jury, many of them who saying they have -- had experience in their lives, you know, connection with addiction, which, let's be honest, is representative of society today. There's not one family really that hasn't been touched by addiction. One of the jurors includes a woman who said that she has lost many friends to drug addiction.

How does that impact the approach here?

WILLIAM BRENNAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, good morning, Kate. Good morning, Joey.

I think it impacts the approach in favor of the defense. I pick juries regularly when there's a drug issue or drug overreach or overlay to the case. I find jurors to be very empathetic.

As you said, Kate, I can't think of a family, my own included, that hasn't had, if not directly, peripherally at least, some involvement or some experience with someone drug addicted. I think, as Joey said in his defense narrative, you know, we're not here to demonize. We're here to uplift.

I think that there's a legitimate chance of jury nullification here because people are going to be empathetic to this situation. And I think if the defense hits hard that what was his state of mind when he filled the form out? As Joey said, these forms are unreliable. Did he check the box? Did somebody else check the box? There's a lot to work with for the defense.

BOLDUAN: And, Joey, we touched on this yesterday, but the fact that the judge told the defense team they can't call an expert witness, that would get at that question of the fact that their approach was that Hunter Biden did not think he was an addict at the time of filling out the form -- JACKSON: Yes.

BOLDUAN: -- with regard to that question. They cannot call that witness.

JACKSON: Right.

BOLDUAN: If that's now the reality that they're facing, do the defense team need to shift strategies very quickly or (INAUDIBLE)?

JACKSON: Yes, so what happens, Kate, is not really, I'll tell you why. Now, I think that certainly they should have been permitted to call an expert to give a deeper dive with respect to addiction. What is the impacts? What does it do? How does a person feel? How does a person react? They can't do that. So, what do you do? You readjust.

And I think with regard to jury selection, that was the readjustment. You have jurors who are very empathetic, who have, right, to Bill's indication, experiences with this addiction. And as a result of that, they know the face of it. They've been involved in it. And I think they could be understanding and they could be empathetic to that. And that could carry the day for the defense with regard to a narrative of shaming, humiliation, and the fact that we shouldn't be here in the first instance.

BOLDUAN: And we've also learned from filings, Bill, new details about the prosecutions -- prosecution's case that they're going to be building in this filing overnight. They released, with it was text messages and photos that they plan to show to the jury and also a plan they expect to call three of Hunter Biden's former romantic partners. What do you make of this?

BRENNAN: Well, you know, this case, if it's looked at clinically, if this jury just goes in there and robotically looks at the evidence, there's a form, the form's checked, he presumably checked it, he had drug issues, and he'll be found guilty.

But I don't think jurors do that. Jurors are human. They don't leave their humanity or common sense at the door. And they're going to hear from people involved with the defendant, former romantic partners. I believe one witness is the former wife of his late brother, which he -- with whom he had a relationship with. And this is going to be compelling and powerful testimony because these witnesses called by the prosecution, I'm sure have love and affection for the defendant.

So, this will be palpable, and this will come through to that jury. And the more humanity that the defense can spread into that jury box, the better chance there will be of a hung jury or an acquittal.

BOLDUAN: With that in mind, it's rare a defense attorney would recommend a defendant take the stand. But to talk about the humanity of it, do you think it could be a good strategy to bring Hunter Biden to the stand?

JACKSON: So, it's always, Kate, a game-time decision. You see how the case is playing out. You get the nature and tenor of what's around you. I'm always reluctant to have a defendant testify. It brings up a Pandora's box. Your case can be going very well with regard to reasonable doubt, with respect to the form and its authenticity, or lack thereof.

[09:10:06]

With regard to the jury buying the notion that he wasn't addicted at the time, he was really struggling and trying to overcome. And so, it opens up a big problem in the event he testifies.

And let's not forget case -- Kate that we are in Delaware and you have a largely African American jury. I think those are factors that inure to the defendant Mr. Biden's benefit.

BOLDUAN: It's great to see you, Joey. Thank you. Bill, great to see you. Thank you very much.

John.

BERMAN: Obsessed and unhinged. President Biden leashes a new wave of attacks on Donald Trump.

And the new move by Elon Musk to set his social media platform apart for competitors like Instagram and Facebook formally allowing porn.

And the new apology after WNBA superstar Caitlin Clark is called a white B word on air.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:15:27]

BOLDUAN: And we have some breaking news. In a new interview with Time magazine. President -- President Biden says he quote, is uncertain whether Israel has committed war crimes in Gaza.

CNN's Arlette Saenz, she's got more on this from the White House. And Arlette, the President also did push back against the ICC seeking arrest warrants against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. But tell us more about what this now statement means. And what -- is he creating a new rift with ally Israel?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's a big question, Kate, and President Biden did not rule out the possibility that Israel has committed war crimes as it's conducted its campaign to root out Hamas in Gaza. This is significant at a time when the administration has increasingly expressed frustration with the way that Israel has conducted its war. But at the same time, the President in this Time Magazine interview also pushed back on the International Criminal Courts, whose prosecutor has said he is seeking arrest warrants of top Israeli officials including, you know, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Now I want to read you a bit of what President Biden said in this interview when he was asked point blank whether he believes Israel has committed war crimes. The President said, quote, the answer is it's uncertain and has been investigated by the Israelis themselves. The ICC is something that we don't, we don't recognize.

He went on to say, but one thing is certain, the people in Gaza, the Palestinians, have suffered greatly for lack of food, water, medicine, et cetera. And a lot of innocent people have been killed. But it is, and a lot of it has to do not just with Israelis, but what Hamas is doing in Israel as we speak. Hamas is intimidating that population.

Now, the President also, in this interview, acknowledged criticisms of Netanyahu, as some have, charged that he has prolonged this war for his own political benefit. The President in this interview said he would not comment on that, but added, there is every reason for people to draw that conclusion.

Now, this interview notably was conducted one day before President Biden outlined the broad contours of that Israeli proposal, a three- phase proposal that could lead to a cease fire and secure the release of hostages. I'm actually told National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan this morning here at the White House will be meeting with the families of the American hostages, still being held in Gaza. But this all comes as President Biden is urging Israel, urging Netanyahu to put an end to this war. He says that Hamas, their capabilities to conduct another large-scale October 7th style attack have largely been degraded because of Israel's efforts.

And so, he's encouraged and pushed the Israelis to work towards some type of deal to secure the end of this war and also secure the release of hostages. Of course, the White House has said that they are waiting for Hamas to respond to that proposal.

BOLDUAN: And really quickly, that's -- that's President Biden speaking about Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and more. He also is taking on Donald Trump in a whole new way when he was at a fundraiser last night.

SAENZ: Yes. President Biden is really escalating his rhetoric against former President Donald Trump specifically when it relates to the legal cases that he is facing. The White House and/or the campaign, I should say, and President Biden have really been hesitant in recent months to weigh in specifically on the legal cases.

They don't want to give any perception of political interference. But in a off camera fundraiser last night in Greenwich, Connecticut, the President specifically referred to Donald Trump for the very first time as a convicted felon. He warned that Trump is trying to wage a full out assault on the American justice system, as you have heard the former president call the election -- the -- this court proceeding, the verdict rigged.

Now, it all comes as the President is preparing to face off against Trump in that first debate in the coming weeks. And another thing that Biden said in -- in this close door fundraise or off camera fundraiser, I should say, he tried to warn that a second Trump term would be more dangerous than the first. He said, quote, something snapped in him when he lost in 2020. He can't accept he lost and it is literally driving him crazy. Throughout this campaign, Trump has made it clear he is running to exact revenge.

So, what the President's trying to do in these types of remarks, they were at an off-camera fundraiser, potentially road testing for campaign rallies down the road. But it adds to his arguments, trying to provide further evidence that Trump is unfit for office and should not be elected for a second term.

BOLDUAN: Arlette Saenz at White House. Thank you.

[09:20:00]

John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now, CNN senior political commentator, Ana Navarro and former South Carolina State Representative and CNN political commentator, Bakari Sellers.

Ana, I'm going to go first to you because you're here with me and standing up, and I appreciate that.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm in heels.

BERMAN: In heels, which I only sometimes wear.

Listen, President Biden used the words convicted felon, albeit at a fundraiser without cameras, but how big of a deal is that he's saying it out loud? NAVARRO: I'm not surprised, and I think this is the appropriate thing

for him to do. Listen, what are Republicans doing? Republicans, Trump world, are trying to paint this as a political persecution that is managed and directed by Biden. This is Biden trying to put his opponent in jail. That's all a lie. We all know that this is not a federal case. This is a state case and that Joe Biden had absolutely nothing to do with it.

But if he starts playing into that using his official role, right, he's not doing it from the presidential podium, he's not doing it from the East Room, he's not doing it in press conferences. He's doing it behind closed doors in front of donors. He's giving them the red meat that they want. I think it's the right and appropriate place for him to do it. He's walking a fine line.

BERMAN: Bakari, do you think that that's a distinction right there and would you do more?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, he's technically not a convicted felon until after there's an entry of judgment when there's a sentencing had. So, beyond that technicality, I do think that it's a fact. And so, when the President does become a convicted felon, I do not have a problem with the President of the United States, the current president of the United States actually saying facts.

I mean, this has been a fact free environment for so long after this sentence is entered. The question will be, is Donald Trump a convicted felon? The answer is yes. And so, when you're describing your opponent, you want people to describe you accurately in the fact that he is now a felon is an accurate description.

And so, I think it also ties into deeper political issues. I mean, we talk about on the show all the time with my friends from the right wanting to make this a law-and-order election or talking about how we've -- how criminals have run rampant throughout the country or large blue cities. And it's really hard to do that when the leader of your party has run afoul of the law and been found guilty on 34 counts with three more trials yet to go.

BERMAN: So, do you think there's any amount of using those words that would be too much Bakari?

SELLERS: No, it's a fact. Like, I mean, if somebody's like, oh my God, he's so handsome. Oh my God, he's so tall. And that's how they want to characterize me. I mean, I'm fine with that because that's a fact. The fact is Donald Trump's a convicted felon. I mean, I have no issue with that whatsoever.

NAVARRO: My tall, handsome colleague.

BERMAN: Yes, I'm not quite sure.

NAVARRO: I think you have -- you're making a point.

BERMAN: I'm not quite sure how that slipped in there, but we'll just --

NAVARRO: Well, I'd like to be called tall as well.

BERMAN: Exact --

NAVARRO: That'd be nice.

BERMAN: Wouldn't we all. So, Ana we just heard from Arlette on the Time Magazine interview that President Biden did, and there was this comment about Benjamin Netanyahu in there, where President Biden was asked about implications that the Israeli Prime Minister might be extending the war in Gaza for political reasons. Biden responded, there is every reason for people to draw that conclusion.

What do you think about that?

NAVARRO: You know, there's people in Israel who -- there's Israelis who feel that way.

BERMAN: But there's a difference between being someone in Israel and being the leader of a different nation saying that, though.

NAVARRO: Look, I think this is one of the most complicated issues that the world is dealing with. And certainly, Joe Biden is dealing with. And it's very hard for him because he has been a staunch supporter of Israel his entire career. No conditions. But that doesn't mean that you think, Netanyahu is infallible. That doesn't think mean that you support what Netanyahu is doing in some of the decisions that he's making. And that doesn't mean that Joe Biden should not be using every lever he has to exert pressure on Netanyahu to come up with a deal to follow through with this peace negotiation that's on the table right now.

BERMAN: Bakari, Netanyahu is coming here to the United States. What's the risk of saying something like that about him? Albeit by not commenting while he's sort of half commenting. What are the risks for Biden in doing that?

SELLERS: I mean, first, I juxtapose it on the fact that this United States Congress didn't allow the President of Kenya to address the joint Congress just a couple of weeks ago when he was here. I think that you can, as Ana said, you have to look at this very sober and very nuanced.

We're here because of Hamas. We're here because of the actions of Hamas on October 7th. And Hamas is very difficult to negotiate with a group of people who do not believe you have a right to exist. That's first.

But as Biden said, and as President Biden said, you can also criticize Bibi Netanyahu. He's not infallible in the fact that Bibi Netanyahu has positioned himself as being someone who is also an impediment to peace.

And so, when you look at this, and when you look at what he's been doing in settler (ph) communities, when you look at just what is happening in Gaza and you want to question, I think you have every right to question the damage that has been caused in Gaza.

[09:25:06]

And so, when you, it's OK to be able to look soberly at both sides of this issue and say it's very difficult to negotiate with Hamas and Bibi Netanyahu is right now being an impediment to peace as well. I think that's a fair assessment.

BERMAN: A very tall and very handsome Bakari Sellers. Our thanks to you. Ana Navarro, always great to have you here.

NAVARRO: I'm very not tall.

BERMAN: Amongst the little people. Well, you know.

NAVARRO: Not handsome. Ana Navarro. OK. That's fine.

BERMAN: You're perfect. You're perfect.

NAVARRO: I can take it.

BERMAN: Right. Attorney General Merrick Garland set to slam the repeated attacks of what he calls conspiracy theories floated by Republicans.

And it is like a scene out of a mob movie. A bag of cash is dropped at the doorstep of a juror with a note promising more money to come if the defendant is acquitted.

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