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Boeing And NASA Crewed Test Flight Set For Relaunch; Yellen Warns AI In Finance Poses "Significant Risks"; Wisconsin Voters Share Frustrations With 2024 Rematch. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired June 05, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE AND TRIAL ATTORNEY (via Webex by Cisco): Exactly, John. So here's what I found so interesting about that. Usually, the defendant does not take the stand, so it's very rare that the jury hears directly from them. So hearing this audiobook, which Hunter Biden recorded in his own voice, was very impactful for the jury, but I think it can cut both ways.

So on one hand, prosecutors are going to argue you're hearing him tell you. This is Hunter Biden, the defendant, sitting right there at that table, tell you about his drug addiction -- about the nature and extent and the frequency that he was actually doing drugs, and his addiction.

On the flip side, you have a couple of people on that jury -- a significant portion of them -- who have had family members or friends or have otherwise been impacted by addiction. So I think on the flip side, from the defense perspective, that could be a really, really sympathetic element that could be applied to Hunter Biden, especially when you're talking about the sensitivity of addiction and the potential for relapse.

So very powerful, but powerful in two different scenarios and maybe effective for each side in a different way.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You know, interesting that you bring up a possible defense angle here because I do think a lot of people went into this trial thinking what is Hunter Biden going to argue to try to -- try to get a not guilty or at least a hung jury here?

But we are beginning to see a strategy here. One, in gender sympathy, like you're suggesting right there. And then number two, get into the technicality of what it means to be using or -- and/or abusing drugs when you're filling out the form because this has to do with a form. These charges with a form that Hunter Biden filled out when he was purchasing a gun that basically asked him to attest to the fact that he wasn't abusing or addicted to drugs. And the defense seems to be literally, that Hunter Biden wasn't doing it when he signed his name -- the minute he signed his name.

Where is the law? How do you split that hair? MARRIS: Yeah, so absolutely. This seemed like a very cut-and-dried case. Prosecutors say look at the form. He was addicted at the time. We're going to show you a lot of evidence that was the case and he lied on the form.

Now, the defense, as you said, taking a different angle, saying the focus on this idea of willingly -- of knowingly -- he was knowingly falsifying the document with the intent to deceive. That would require Hunter Biden identifying himself as an addict at the time.

And the defense goes a step further. They say that actually, he wasn't using drugs at the time and you're looking at the prosecutors' timeline -- heavy-handed timeline that leaves a critical time period, meaning the time right before and at the time Hunter Biden is filling out the form.

The defense said anything that happens after was a relapse. And addicts often relapse. It's a terrible tragedy when it comes to drug addiction. So Hunter Biden was not viewing himself as an addict and, therefore, when he filled out the form he wasn't knowingly deceiving or knowingly lying.

So it's going to require the jury to really take a look at the words on that form. And as the defense pointed out, it doesn't say have you used or are you using; it says have you been addicted to drugs or currently addicted to drugs. So that is going to be something they're going to ask the jury to parse out.

But honestly, John, it's exactly what you want to do from a defense perspective because your job is not to prove the case; it's to raise reasonable doubt. So he just wants to get a couple of jurors on that narrative to really think about that aspect.

BERMAN: So if you're the prosecution, you know this. You know that this is how the defense will try to inject doubt in there. How you get around that? Do you put people who knew -- people who were romantically involved with Hunter Biden on the stand who will -- can you ask them was Hunter Biden addicted to drugs on that day?

MARRIS: Absolutely. That's what they're going to try and do. They knew the timeline was going to be of a concern because a lot of what we saw come out in the courtroom yesterday from Hunter Biden's laptop, which is corroborating his own account in his memoir -- text messages -- they are from the day after. Some of the most critical text messages happened the day after.

So, of course, the prosecutors are going to try and use other evidence such as, as you said, witness testimony from those who were romantically involved in him -- with him about his drug use. Who knew him at the time.

You can also see other evidence coming into play that the prosecutors are admitting. For instance, large withdrawals of cash. Prosecutors are going to say that is common practice of those who purchase and take drugs to use cash as opposed to other means of payment. So we're seeing how the prosecutors are going to put together other types of evidence in order to get ahead of the defense timeline issue. So that's why you see the defense focusing so much on state of mind because if the prosecutors are able to throw in that circumstantial evidence in addition to the real documentary evidence -- well, then the defense can rely on state of mind as a defense.

BERMAN: All right. We will watch this develop today. One of the most interesting aspects will be the cross-examination of people who, at one point, were very close with Hunter Biden. The choices the defense counsel has to make here will be fascinating.

[07:35:05]

Misty Marris, thank you very much -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: This morning, a third attempt to make history after a computer glitch stopped history in its tracks this weekend. NASA and Boeing are preparing for the launch of the Starliner spacecraft today after two previous attempts were scrubbed at the last minute.

We just saw astronauts walking out moments ago. There is one of them right there. And we're apparently on track right now to lift off at 10:52 a.m. Eastern from Cape Canaveral, Florida.

CNN's Kristin Fisher is there for us in Cape Canaveral. OK, are we a go for launch? What's the latest you're hearing right now, Kristen?

KRISTEN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: Kate, as of now, we are a go for launch just three hours and 17 minutes away from liftoff. The weather is looking great. None of the wind that we were dealing with during the last launch attempt on Saturday.

They've also fixed the pesky ground computer that actually caused the scrub on Saturday just three minutes and 50 seconds before lifting off.

And now, those two astronauts, Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, are all suited up and driving in the Astrovan -- yes, that's what it's called, the Astrovan -- on their way to the launch pad.

And over the last two days, since that scrubbed -- well, they've been waiting for the United Launch Alliance to fix that pesky ground computer.

The two astronauts have been enjoying some quality time in quarantine. Butch actually went fishing yesterday. Suni Williams went for a run on a beach. And so, that's how they're kind of enjoying their final few minutes on Earth before, hopefully, lifting off today, Kate. Hopefully, the third time is the charm.

And if it does lift off today from the Kennedy Space Center and Cape Canaveral Space Force Station, then these two astronauts are going to spend eight days up at the International Space Station.

But the big thing here, Kate, this is a flight test. The first time that this spacecraft -- Boeing Starliner spacecraft -- has ever flown people in space. There is only six times in U.S. history that has happened -- Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, the Space Shuttle, SpaceX's Crew Dragon, and now Boeing's Starliner. It has been about a decade to get to this point.

SpaceX ended up beating Starliner to carry NASA astronauts to and from the Space Station. Boeing, long believed to be the favorite, slipped behind.

And so, there is now so much on the line for Boeing. They've got to prove that they can do this and make good on the contract that NASA first awarded them back in 2014 when NASA really made a bet and a gamble that's paid off to outsource the ferrying of its astronauts to the International Space Station to private companies so that NASA can focus on bigger things, like sending NASA astronauts to the moon as part of the Artemis program.

But, Kate, as we sit here today, you can really feel the excitement building. Let's just hope that pesky ground computer doesn't cause any more problems today and that we are a go for launch. Because I know these two astronauts and everybody on the Boeing, NASA, and United Launch Alliance team want to see this thing fly -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

Kristin, it's great to see you. Thank you so much -- John.

BERMAN: I was enjoying seeing the Astrovan driving through, and I really do like the name. It's like the Mystery Machine from Scooby Doo.

All right. This morning, Treasury Sec. Janet Yellen is poised to deliver a stark warning about artificial intelligence and financial systems. This is according to speech excerpts first shared with CNN.

Our Matt Egan is with us now with the details here. Matt, what are you learning?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, John, listen, what's going on in AI is moving so fast, right? We've got an arms race between the tech companies. Wall Street firms are embracing AI. And then regulators are just trying to keep up with it and worry what could go wrong.

Now, tomorrow's speech from Janet Yellen will be her most extensive remarks to date on AI. At this conference in Washington, she plans to tell tech executives, bankers, and academics that there are "tremendous opportunities and significant risks associated with the use of AI by financial companies."

Now, she's going to lay out some of these concerns, including what's known as the "black box" problem, which is the fact that we don't really know how these AI models work, which makes it impossible to know how safe they are and how safe they'll be when you introduce them to the financial system.

She's also going to talk about crowded trades -- how if a lot of investors are using the same AI models and same AI data, you could have everyone moving in the same direction and that could exacerbate moves up and down.

Also, she's going to mention how some of these models have a tendency to churn out biased results. That could be, obviously, a problem in financial decision-making. I mean, imagine getting denied a loan because a robot doesn't like your zip code.

[07:40:02]

And then one interesting thing is that she's not going to mention -- at least not according to the excerpts that I've seen -- the problem where some AI models tend to make things up in a really believable way. It's known as hallucinating. It's something that's gotten some lawyers in trouble because they've cited case law that turned out not to exist. I'm not a lawyer but probably not a great idea.

Now, last year, the U.S. officials -- they, for the first time, designated AI as an emerging vulnerability in the financial system. Tomorrow, Janet Yellen plans to say that AI has moved toward the top of the regulatory agenda.

BERMAN: I mean, obviously, it's something that everyone has to deal with in every aspect of life. It's good the Treasury secretary is addressing it.

Look, you talk about the risks there. Something like hallucination sounds frightening under most circumstances. But is AI in the financial system always considered a force for evil or can it be force for good?

EGAN: It can definitely be a positive. It could be a gamechanger in this economy.

And Janet Yellen does plan to address some of these positives. She'll note that AI is already being used to help with forecasting, to fight fraud. To power customer support. And that looking forward, some of these new advancements, including generative AI and the fact that AI can actually recognize images -- that could end up making finance and banking cheaper and more accessible.

And a Treasury official told me that Yellen, herself -- she has experimented with some of these AI chatbots and, I mean, why wouldn't they -- why wouldn't she? These things can do some incredible things. The IRS is already AI to try to fight tax fraud, and the Treasury is as well.

And tomorrow, Janet Yellen will say, for the first time, that U.S. officials are working with the private sector and the public sector to figure out how AI can be used to address a sanctions evasion, money laundering, and even terror financing.

BERMAN: Wouldn't you like to know what Janet Yellen entered into the chatbot?

EGAN: I would love to know. BERMAN: What search do you think that she put in there? That would be fascinating.

All right, Matt Egan. Great to see you this morning. Thank you very much.

EGAN: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: All right. This morning, the White House is accusing House Republicans of making false claims about President Biden to stoke new concern about his age to voters.

And then persistent and significant. The new warnings from the FBI director on the threat of domestic terrorism.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:46:30]

BOLDUAN: Moments ago, an Italian court just upheld a slander conviction against Amanda Knox. In this case, she was charged with falsely accusing her former boss of killing Meredith Kercher.

You'll remember that Kercher was found stabbed to death in 2007 in the apartment that she shared with Knox in Italy. Knox was convicted of killing Kercher in a trial that captured international attention. She spent four years in an Italian prison. And then, in 2015, she was cleared of Kercher's murder by an -- by the Italian Supreme Court.

Amanda Knox not expected to serve any additional time after today's court ruling.

And a couple in Queens, New York made a very lucky discovery while magnet fishing in a local park. Magnet fishing is a thing. I looked it up.

James Kane and Barbi Agostini told CNN affiliate NY1 that they reeled in an old safe filled with one-hundred-dollar bills -- and not just a few. The couple estimates that the safe contained $100,000.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES KANE, FOUND $100,000 INSIDE LOCKED SAFE WHILE MAGNET FISHING: When I first saw it, the initial thought is we have found plenty of safes before. This is just what a magnet fisher does -- he finds safes. And I thought it was a bunch of little baggies that you would --

BARBI AGOSTINI, FOUND $100,000 INSIDE LOCKED SAFE WHILE MAGNET FISHING: Yeah.

KANE: -- put cash in.

AGOSTINI: Um-hum.

KANE: You know -- and I mean, I was, like, no, we're going to take -- open it up and it's going to be little clear baggies. And then I saw --

AGOSTINI: Yeah.

KANE: -- the numbers and I said, "Babe, this is -- this is not possible." Holy -- some profanity but trying to control it in. And --

AGOSTINI: Yeah.

KANE: -- we pulled it out and it was, like, two stacks of fricking hundreds.

AGOSTINI: Yeah, and I --

KANE: Big stacks.

AGOSTINI: -- did not believe it. I thought it was a joke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: I don't have any information about the wrestling belt over his shoulder. Still, the police -- the couple called police right away to report their discovery. But because the safe has no identifying markers, police said they can keep it.

And there's also this. It is not what you would typically think when it comes to a conversation around birth control. But a new clinical trial finds that male birth control gel is effective. It's a hormonal gel that goes on a man's shoulders. I did not misspeak -- it goes on your shoulders.

Researchers say after 12 weeks of applying the gel every day, 86 percent of men experienced sperm suppression. The gel still needs FDA approval -- John.

BERMAN: How about that?

BOLDUAN: How about that? The connection on the shoulders bit is --

BERMAN: I didn't have shoulders on the bingo card.

BOLDUAN: I know.

BERMAN: -- but it's (INAUDIBLE).

BOLDUAN: When I started reading this, this morning, I was, like, no. Why would I talk about where we put the lotion?

BERMAN: Yeah, in the basket. You always put the lotion in the basket.

All right. This morning, a little bit going on in politics this morning. A candidate convicted of a felony. A brand-new sweeping executive order on immigration. New questions about the age of candidates. And this is all in just the last few days.

So what does it all mean? What does it all mean in the key battleground states? One man has the answer this morning. CNN's Jeff Zeleny live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Good morning to you, sir.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, John.

For all the history-making moments in this race, for all the instability around the world, I can tell you this race has been remarkably frozen in time. It has barely moved throughout the course of any of these, from the conviction last week to other big events like the Biden immigration bill. Of course, voters are still taking all of this into account.

But this is a new moment in the campaign. The debate is just three weeks away. The Republican Convention also looming.

So we sat down with some voters to hear what's on their minds as they're beginning to pay a bit more closer attention to this race.

[07:50:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAROLYN QUINLAN, INDEPENDENT WISCONSIN VOTER: The past is done. Let's move ahead.

ZELENY (voice-over): Caroline Quinlan has little appetite for relitigating the past -- a warning for both sides as the rematch of Joe Biden and Donald Trump sets in for a summer of uncertainty.

QUINLAN: Both parties have their extreme side and no one's in the middle.

ZELENY (voice-over): It's a new moment in a campaign that often feels like an old sequel. Trump's trial is over. The first debate is three weeks away. And here in Wisconsin, the Republican Convention is looming.

When we spoke to Quinlan last summer, she longed for a fresh start but braced for drama.

QUINLAN: I think the next 15 months is going to be like a Lifetime movie. There's going to be -- so much can happen on both sides.

ZELENY (voice-over): So much has happened, but it's an open question whether those history-making moments have shifted any ground or changed many minds.

ZELENY: Will that conviction weigh in on your choice at all in November?

QUINLAN: No. No. No, it won't, unless he's brought to jail, I guess. But if he's on the ticket, he's on the ticket.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, Milwaukee.

ZELENY (voice-over): Wisconsin is once again an essential stop on the road to the White House -- a bellwether that went for Biden in 2020 and Trump in 2016.

TONY DUCKERT, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think at the end of the day, that conviction last week helps President Trump.

ZELENY (voice-over): Tony Duckert believes the felony convictions may rally Republicans, but he doesn't believe that alone is a path to victory.

DUCKERT: I think it's the economy, which would include inflation. I think it's the border situation. I think it's the crime situation. All of the things that historically, a president is judged by in an election year.

ZELENY (voice-over): Here in suburban Cedarburg, where Biden became the first Democrat in a quarter-century to win, Duckert proudly planted a Trump sign in his front yard.

DUCKERT: I won't be intimidated in my support for President Trump.

ZELENY (voice-over): A few blocks away, the opposing view from a Republican against Trump. No one was home where a flag bearing the name of Jack Smith, special prosecutor in the federal probe against Trump, waved in the breeze.

How much Democrats should dwell on those cases is the subject of considerable handwringing after Biden mocked Trump this week as a convicted felon.

TIM EICHINGER, BIDEN SUPPORTER: I would probably say you should really get more emphasis on policy than you should on trashing the opponent. But there are other people that would disagree with that.

ZELENY (voice-over): Tim Eichinger is a loyal Biden supporter but believes inflation and economic challenges threaten his reelection.

ZELENY: Do you believe he'll win, or do you worry he could lose?

EICHINGER: I worry he could lose.

ZELENY (voice-over): Democrats, he said, don't have the luxury of being too critical of Biden.

EICHINGER: You still have to think about what would happen if we have another term of Donald Trump because it's going to be worse this time.

ZELENY (voice-over): Wisconsin voters will have a closer seat than most Americans with Trump set to accept the Republican nomination next month in Milwaukee.

Quinlan, an Independent, said she will probably vote for Trump again unless something changes.

QUINLAN: I did tell myself probably a year ago -- I'm, like, I'm not voting for anyone over 70. Well, I don't have that option anymore.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ZELENY: So age is one of the questions hanging over voters in this race, John -- there's no doubt about it -- among supporters and critics of Biden and Trump alike.

Now, for Quinlan's part there, she said she is watching for what former President Trump will do for his running mate, which will be announced right here in Milwaukee. She's holding out hope that he picks Nikki Haley. She believes that could help win over some suburban Republican women voters like her. She's large an Independent but has voted Republican in the past.

So, John, for all of these big moments there are still a few more to come. So a summer of uncertainty, no doubt. We will see where this race goes, but it's frozen in time as of now. But Wisconsin is key to victory for either man -- John.

BERMAN: Jeff, did you break it to her that the pick is not likely to be Nikki Haley?

ZELENY: We will let the former president make his own decisions. Who knows, John?

BERMAN: Who knows, indeed.

ZELENY: But she knows it would be a longshot.

BERMAN: Jeff Zeleny, great report. Great to see you this morning. Thank you very much -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: That's a Jeff Zeleny version of no comment.

BERMAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: That was -- all right.

Another concern for voters that we've heard throughout the presidential election is the age and mental fitness of both candidates. Well now, in a new article from The Wall Street Journal, headlined "Behind Closed Doors, Biden Shows Signs of Slipping," the article highlights interviews with more than 45 people, including members of the Biden administration.

The reporting, over a course of several months of reporting, and it includes participants in meetings saying that the president has performed poorly at times and appears slower. The Journal makes the point to say that most of those who were critical of Biden's performance behind closed doors were Republicans, but it did also say it includes some Democrats.

And the White House is responding to The Wall Street Journal with this and let me read the statement.

"Congressional Republicans, foreign leaders, and nonpartisan national security experts have made clear in their own words that President Biden is a savvy and effective leader who has a deep record of legislative accomplishment. Now, in 2024, House Republicans are making false claims as a political tactic that flatly contradict previous statements made by themselves and their colleagues."

[07:55:14]

Joining us right now, Democratic strategist Matt Bennett. He's also a former White House deputy assistant in the Clinton administration. And Bryan Lanza, the former deputy communications director for Donald Trump's 2016 campaign.

A piece like this, details like that, and a headline like this becomes a problem for any presidential campaign, Matt. What should the Biden campaign do now about this reporting?

MATT BENNETT, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS AND CO-FOUNDER, THIRD WAY, Well, I think they need to make a few points about this, and they started with that statement that you read.

The first is that this was the dog that didn't bark for a long time. I mean, they've been political opponents of the president, meeting with him for his entire term, and they come out of the White House, and they talk about things, but they never have said that he wasn't sharp in the meeting or that there was some problem.

What you're seeing now is what we've seen a couple of times in recent months, which is that the Trump campaign has put out the word that they want their allies in Congress to do a certain thing. They did this with the immigration bill where they turned against their own bill. And they did it with the conviction in New York just a couple of weeks ago where congressional Republicans fell all over themselves to stay on message about how it was a travesty of justice. I think you're seeing the same thing here.

So the White House needs to make clear that his is a political attack coming in a political season, and it's not a thing that anyone had been talking about or saying before coming out of these closed-door meetings.

BOLDUAN: I will say, though, I don't see in this Journal reporting they are saying that the comments from Republicans behind closed doors are specifically, they believe, directed by the Trump campaign specifically. Overall, though, I get your point. It's what -- we know the campaign has been driving and questioning Biden's mental acuity as we've heard from Donald Trump himself.

So, Bryan, do you see this as just a gift to the Trump campaign? Is there any aspect of this that the Trump campaign should tread carefully on?

BRYAN LANZA, FORMER DEPUTY COMMICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP 2016 CAMPAIGN: First of all, thank you for having me, Kate.

Listen, it's not just the Trump campaign; it's our own visual eyes seeing Joe Biden's cognitive decline in front of us. And so, yeah, that's going to continue to get highlighted. I mean, every time he falls down the stairs, that gets highlighted. Every time he misspeaks, every time he talks about a different decade, that's not the Trump campaign highlighting these things. That's the American voters seeing Joe Biden's cognitive fitness decline over the last four years.

And, yeah, that is a big issue. I mean, Joe Biden's on the international stage today. He's off -- he's off to Paris. He's with world leaders who have known him for probably close to 20 to 30 years. They have witnessed the cognitive decline of Joe Biden.

And that's the scary thing about this issue is people have -- you know, people on the world stage have known Joe Biden for 40 years. They've seen him when he was young and vibrant. And now they see him when he's old and senile. And that makes America weak abroad and that makes America weak here. And that's the problem. It's not his age; it's his cognitive fitness.

I mean, Warren Buffett is 91. I'd still take stock advice from him. Joe Biden's 81. I'm not going to take any legislative advice from him.

BOLDUAN: I will say, though, in terms of highlighting and voters seeing it, we have -- you can also document examples of Donald Trump fumbling over things. Talking about Nancy Pelosi -- calling her something else. I mean, you have seen these things. It is what does it add up to? And that gets to something of messaging, Matt.

BENNETT: It does. And to your point, I mean, these guys are three years apart. Both of them are older. And both of them have had stumbles in public -- there's no doubt. But I would say that that's about a draw.

Trump constantly is making mistakes in public and we're seeing that on our screens. It isn't just an effort to make the case that behind closed doors something is happening that wasn't reported on before.

BOLDUAN: So, Bryan, changing gears. Donald Trump now loves absentee voting and mail-in voting. Here is a statement from Donald Trump yesterday.

"Republicans must win and we will use every appropriate tool to beat the Democrats because they are destroying our country. Whether you vote absentee, by mail, early in-person, or on Election Day, we are going to protect the vote. We make sure your ballot is secure and your voice is heard."

Just as Donald Trump, in a speech, said in January in his Iowa caucus victory speech this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to get rid of mail- in ballots because once you have mail-in ballots, you have crooked elections.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: So, you should just have Donald Trump stop saying that now? Is that what you would say? I mean, as a campaign batter, do you think mail-in voting is a good idea and absentee voting is a good idea? LANZA: You know, I love it with rules, and I think it's been very successful with rules. And I think the challenge to President Trump has had with absentee ballots is the nuance of it. I think -- I think he lacks the ability to say universal absentee ballots that are sent to your home without you requesting it -- that is a problem.

And all voters should have concern with universal absentee voting where a voter is not requesting the ballot and it shows up there to the house one day.