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Attacks Between Israel, Hezbollah in Lebanon Raise Fear of War; Civil Liberties Groups Vow to Challenge Louisiana Commandments Law; Harnessing Clean Energy from Iceland's Volcanoes. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired June 20, 2024 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: The U.S. is warning that Israel's Iron Dome could become vulnerable to Hezbollah if there's a full-blown war with a militant group in Lebanon. Officials tell CNN that Israel is now planning to shift resources from southern Gaza to northern Israel in preparation for a possible offensive. Israel and Hezbollah have been trading increasingly intense threats, raising concerns of wider war.

The latest coming from Hezbollah's leader who says that if a war breaks out, the group will target the nearby European Union nation of Cyprus. Earlier, Israel warned of a possible, quote, all-out war after Hezbollah released drone video purporting to show sensitive Israeli military and civilian sites.

With us now is retired Army Lieutenant General Ben Hodges. He was commanding general of the United States Army in Europe. Sir, thank you so much for being with us. How close do you think we are to a war between Israel and Hezbollah?

LT. GENERAL BEN HODGES, FORMER COMMANDER OF U.S. ARMY FORCES IN EUROPE: Well, of course, it's not inevitable, but it seems more dangerous now than I've seen in a while. And in fact, recently, former Prime Minister Ehud Barak says he thought that Israel faces the biggest crisis in its history. And I think Israel is possibly going to find themselves in a three-front war with Lebanon, Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hamas, and even the West Bank. So this is a very dangerous situation.

SANCHEZ: What about that assessment from a former top Israeli military strategist that Hezbollah's arsenal could overwhelm the Iron Dome air defenses? Do you share that concern?

HODGES: Well, this will be a problem. Of course, Hezbollah will have learned a lot after the attack by Iran, you remember, a couple of months ago. That was not so intensive, but yet you had Israeli defense forces plus the U.S. Air Force and Royal Air Force and Jordanians helping. I think Hezbollah will have learned from that.

And they have a lot more capabilities that have grown over the last few years. So I'm reluctant to say that, yes, they will overwhelm it, but they will do -- they have the potential to do a lot of damage in terms of precision and range. They can hit infrastructure. And I would imagine that Hezbollah also is going to be looking at the power grid, the electricity generation infrastructure, just the way that Russia has been doing against Ukraine. This would cause a real problem for Israel.

SANCHEZ: General, what about this threat to Cyprus? That to me just appeared kind of random.

HODGES: Yes, Cyprus has, of course, it's important, as you pointed out at the beginning, Cyprus is a member of the European Union. And so if Hezbollah were to attack Cyprus, this has much broader implications because of security obligations other members of the EU would have to support Cyprus. Now, Cyprus, why would they be targeted?

Cyprus provides training areas, some bases that Israeli defense forces have used in the past, because the terrain in Cyprus is very similar to what Israeli forces might encounter in Lebanon. So I think I can't tell yet. Is this a threat or is this a warning? I mean, are they serious about following through on that? That would be a significant escalation.

SANCHEZ: Yes, I want to turn now to the conflict between Israel and Hamas and specifically something that appears to be a disparity between the IDF chief spokesman who said, quote, those who think we can make Hamas disappear are wrong. And Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, he actually doubled down on destroying Hamas after those comments. He said the IDF, of course, is committed to this. Which do you think is closer to the truth?

HODGES: Well, Boris, you have touched on, I think, the most important point of this entire conflict, is that the prime minister has given the IDF, Israeli Defense Force, a mission that is not feasible. Of course, the IDF is going to kill a lot of Hamas warriors.

[15:35:02]

But Hamas is not a thing. It's a -- it's an ideology. And the only way you destroy an ideology is you have to destroy what feeds it. What, what causes it?

And instead, it seems to me that because of the task from the prime minister, and frankly, the incohesive nature of their current government, the IDF ends up launching attacks into populated areas that are not only making it difficult for others to support Israel, but also every time you kill innocent people, that adds people to the ranks of Hamas.

So I think Israel is going to have to make a very, very tough choice here to accept some sort of a ceasefire in exchange for getting their hostages back. Otherwise, and by the way, I think this is what Hezbollah actually is after. Hezbollah is doing what they're doing to put pressure on Israel to get a ceasefire with Hamas.

SANCHEZ: Well Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, appreciate your perspective. Thanks for being with us.

HODGES: Thanks for the privilege.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

The ACLU says that public schools are not Sunday schools. It's one of several organizations planning to sue Louisiana over a new law that requires the Ten Commandments be displayed in classrooms.

We have the head of the ACLU's Louisiana chapter after a quick break.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: A new law in Louisiana is about to put the separation between church and state to the test. Just signed into law yesterday by the Republican governor. The ACLU is already vowing to sue here.

House Bill 71, it requires every public classroom in Louisiana to display the Ten Commandments from kindergarten through state-funded colleges. It also mandates the commandments be on a poster or framed document that is at least 11 by 14 inches in, quote, large, easily readable font. Earlier, one of the bill's co-authors told Boris that Louisiana won't be deterred by lawsuits.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAUREN VENTRELLA, (R) LOUISIANA STATE HOUSE: I don't understand why this is so preposterous in that litigation is being threatened. It doesn't scare us in the state of Louisiana. We say bring it on.

SANCHEZ: What do you say to the parents of students or even teachers who don't share your religious views?

VENTRELLA: Don't look at it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right, let's turn now to Alanah Odoms. She is the executive director of the ACLU in Louisiana, which is one of the groups planning to sue here. OK, Alanah, you heard that co-author of the bill.

Don't look at it, she said to Boris. Why is it not that simple in your view?

ALANAH ODOMS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, LOUISIANA ACLU: Requiring the Ten Commandments be posted in every classroom from preschool to college in the state of Louisiana is religious indoctrination. It's the codifying of Christianity in the state of Louisiana, and it clearly violates the First Amendment, both in its free exercise clause and also in its establishment clause. In the United States of America, based on our founding principles, we have the right to choose any faith that we want or no faith at all, and that's free exercise.

And the establishment clause also tells us that the government cannot favor one religion over another and certainly cannot favor religion over non-religion. And unfortunately, this particular statute does exactly that. It favors a Judeo-Christian view or ideology, and that is patently unconstitutional.

KEILAR: The ACLU is going to sue over this. The Supreme Court, if we look at what the Supreme Court has said over time, it has said the Bible is permitted to be taught in school as long as it's, quote, presented objectively as part of a secular program of education. Notably, though, the Supreme Court struck down a similar Kentucky law in the 80s.

Do you think that this court, with its current makeup, is going to respect that precedent?

ODOMS: Well this is 40-year precedent that we're talking about here in Stone v. Graham, and that was a Kentucky case where they did precisely what the government is trying to do here in the state of Louisiana, which is to mandate that the Ten Commandments be posted in every single classroom. And the reason that that is particularly harmful and the Supreme Court struck that down is because public school students and schools are given heightened protection under the Establishment Clause.

There's a specific reason for that. Schools are mandated, between K- 12, are mandated for students, and that makes students a captive audience. We also know that students are incredibly impressionable.

So we know that if we're requiring the Ten Commandments be posted in the classroom, we know that it is very likely for students to get the impression that the government is, in fact, endorsing a certain religion. In that case, it would be Christianity or Judaism. And so we know that that is something that the Supreme Court has upheld in its jurisprudence for almost 40 years.

The Establishment Clause is still good law. The Free Exercise Clause is still good law. And so we are very optimistic that that 40-year precedent will remain in effect.

KEILAR: The co-author of this bill also kind of fixated on the fact that a dollar bill says, in God we trust on it.

[15:45:00]

Kind of drawing a comparison here, I guess. But does that make sense to you as a justification for this law being constitutional? Or why doesn't it, I guess, would be the better question.

ODOMS: Sure. No, it doesn't justify that. You'll also note that, you know, in the Pledge of Allegiance, there's reference to God. That is not something that is mandated by law in school. That's actually just a tradition or a practice that happens in this country.

What we really need to focus on and what the Supreme Court looks at is this idea of making sure that people still have the free exercise of religion in this country, that they are able to choose a faith of their own or no faith at all, and these really important fundamental Establishment Clause principles. Which are that the government does not have the right to coerce students or parents or families to choose a specific religion. They cannot proselytize. They can't choose one religion over another.

These are the most foundational principles of the United States of America. And certainly we respect and think that this will be something that the court will uphold.

KEILAR: The co-authors say, well, this is a historic document. I wonder what you think about that argument, if you think it's tailored to an eventual Supreme Court battle where we see conservative justices relying heavily on history and tradition in recent decisions.

ODOMS: Yes, absolutely. They're taking their playbook from Stone v. Graham. I mean, in that case in the 1980s, the school district argued exactly the same thing. And as a matter of fact, they put a little clause underneath the Ten Commandments saying that it was of historical significance and that it was very similar to documents like the Declaration of Independence or the Mayflower Compact.

And the court still, under the Lemon Test, which is no longer the precise test in these cases, but the court could clearly see that there was a non-secular purpose for this law. Right? And so, when you're looking at this particular piece of legislation, it does not matter that the legislators have argued that this is non-secular or that it's actually historic. What we know is that the Ten Commandments are a sacred religious text.

They're a sacred religious text that are used in various religious backgrounds and faiths, in particular the Judeo-Christian ideology. And so when you take a document as specific and as religious as the Ten Commandments, it's very difficult to argue that this is just merely historical. It is much more clearly a religious doctrine, something that is followed by many, many, many believers and has a very significant religious significance. And that's why it's a very different situation.

KEILAR: Well, this is going to be an interesting fight to watch. Although, as you say, one that is very similar to one we've already seen decades ago. Alanah Odoms, thanks for being with us.

ODOMS: Thanks. I'm glad to be with you, too.

KEILAR: So they provide both incredible images and major safety concerns for those who live nearby. Ahead, we're taking you inside the growing effort to harness the violent power of volcanic eruptions.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: While destructive and dangerous, Iceland's highly active volcanoes could one day provide clean energy to hundreds of millions of people.

KEILAR: That's because scientists are finding new ways to harness all of that power. CNN's Fred Pleitgen has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): The awesome power of nature on full display in southwest Iceland. The Reykjanes Peninsula, close to the capital, suffering a string of violent volcanic eruptions in the past years. Iceland's massive activity both a burden and a blessing for those who live here.

The town Grindavik, close to the eruption site, evacuated. A fissure running right through the streets and the houses. Klara Halldorsdottir, one of the more than 3,000 residents evacuated last November, says she's had enough and will never move back.

KLARA HALLDORSDOTTIR, FORMER GRINDAVIK RESIDENT: I get goosebumps when I talk about it because it was really, really strange. Just long lines of cars exiting town. It was like in a terrible movie or something.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): When things appear to get more calm, a few months later another violent eruption occurs. As the Reykjanes Peninsula seems to have entered into a period of high volcanic activity that could last months, years or even centuries. Keeping the specialists at Iceland's meteorological office tasked with predicting eruptions busy round the clock.

SARA BARSOTTI, ICELANDIC METEOROLOGICAL OFFICE: The GPS station that's telling us if the ground is changing, it is deforming. We are maintaining the geochemical monitoring that is telling us which are the kind of gases that are leaving the volcanoes.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): While volcanoes often have an impact on life here in Iceland, the Icelanders have found ways to harness the power of our violent earth. Geothermal power plants feeding off the heat, providing emission-free energy in abundance, and leading companies from around the world to move energy-intensive manufacturing like aluminum production to Iceland.

Our team traveled all the way to the northeast of Iceland to the Krafla geothermal plant. When drilling a new borehole here at Krafla, they accidentally hit a shallow magma chamber and now are working on harnessing the earth's energy almost directly from the extremely hot magma. The project's director says this technology could provide clean energy for hundreds of millions of people.

[15:55:00]

HJALTI PALL INGOLFSSON, KRAFLA MAGMA TESTBED: We have a very big part of humanity living close to a volcano. And if we are able to harness the volcano directly, reducing the risk by lowering the pressure and lowering the tension in the volcano, then of course we have a win-win situation.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Using the earth's natural energy without burning fossil fuels. The scientists acknowledge there is still a long way to go and a lot to be learned, but they also believe the potential energy supply could be virtually limitless and totally clean. (END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN (on camera): I'll tell you guys, the power of volcanoes certainly is pretty awe-inspiring.

And when you speak to the Icelanders, they do acknowledge that of course there is still a lot to learn. There's still probably new technologies that they have to develop in order to do this. But they do believe that there is a chance to harness even more power, more of that heat power from those volcanoes for virtually limitless clean energy -- guys.

KEILAR: That's really amazing. Fred, thank you for that report.

And you can catch the full episode of "VIOLENT EARTH" with Liev Schreiber this Sunday night at 9 on CNN.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: A whole new kind of Watergate that we're talking about today. A Vermont state representative caught on camera pouring water into the tote bag of her Democratic colleague.

SANCHEZ: You're looking at evidence gathered by Representative Jim Carroll. He set up this hidden camera after finding his bag inexplicably drenched for months. His colleague, Republican Mary Morrissey, apologized on the House floor this week.

[16:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY MORRISSEY, (R) VERMONT STATE HOUSE: I hope Jim, my legislative colleagues, all of our Statehouse staff and those who work in this building, and the citizens of Vermont can forgive me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: This is such a random, weird thing to do to somebody.

KEILAR: What was Mary doing?

SANCHEZ: If you're ever going to do that to me, Brianna, and I know you've thought about it, pour some margarita mix in there.

KEILAR: That's what I would do. I put a mojito in your bag.

SANCHEZ: Some fruity pebble protein shake.

KEILAR: That's what I would do. No, I pour water in my own bag accidentally sometimes.

SANCHEZ: "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.

KEILAR: He doesn't do that.

SANCHEZ: He doesn't pour water in people's stuff.