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Julian Assange to Avoid U.S. Prison Time; Violent Protests in Kenya; Mar-a-Lago Documents Hearing; Trump, Biden Preparing For Debate. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired June 25, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:49]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: As we close in on the first presidential debate, outside advisers have a message for President Biden: Don't talk up your first term. Target Donald Trump instead.

Will the president take that advice? We will break down the report.

Add highly classified national secrets in cardboard boxes, alongside newspapers and photographs, prosecutors releasing never-before-seen pictures from Mar-a-Lago, pushing back on the former president's efforts to toss the classified documents case against him.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And the U.S. surgeon general declaring gun violence in urgent public health crisis. So what does that mean?

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: Thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. I'm Boris Sanchez, alongside Brianna Keilar, in the nation's capital.

And, right now, former President Donald Trump and President Biden are both hunkering down with senior advisers and allies. Biden is at Camp David and Trump is at Mar-a-Lago, making their final preparations before facing off on the CNN debate stage in just two days.

KEILAR: Biden is taking a more formal approach to debate prep. And we're told several top Democrats are urging him to spend more time going directly after Trump and less time touting his first-term accomplishments.

Trump, on the other hand, is taking a different approach to his prep.

So let's begin there with CNN national correspondent Kristen Holmes.

So, Kristen, what more can you tell us about how Trump is spending these final days?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting, Brianna, hearing you talk about what Biden's advisers and allies are telling him, because it's very different from what we're hearing from Trump's advisers and allies. They want Donald Trump to focus on things like the economy and

immigration, to bring up his record. They believe that enough time has passed since he was in office that people view him more favorably on those issues. And if you look at current polling, that remains the same.

Now, of course, with Donald Trump, there are other concerns, the other concerns namely being that he will go off message, that he will stray from talking about things like immigration, like crime, like the economy, and instead go on rants or attack Biden.

What they are hoping for is that he just stays true to that messaging. Now, something that we had heard from allies originally had been that they were concerned about this idea of a lack of audience, that they thought that Donald Trump would not have high energy if there wasn't an audience to feed off of.

However, in recent days, I have talked to a number of allies, people who have spoken to the former president, who say that they're coming around to this idea that it might actually be better for the former president. He might not enjoy it as much, but to keep him on message, he's not going to go into those rants and riffs -- of course, this is their hopeful thinking -- because he doesn't have that audience egging him on.

He doesn't have them laughing and clapping. Again, remember here, they don't know who's going to show up on the stage, which version of Donald Trump, but they can tell him over and over again, and that's exactly what they're doing, how to respond to questions on abortion, how to respond to questions on democracy, particularly his role in January 6 and what he has said about pardoning the people involved.

But they are selling him, just stay on message, whatever it is. Pivot to the things that the people, the voters are showing they appreciate you for it in the polls. That is, again, crime, the economy and immigration.

SANCHEZ: Kristen Holmes, live for us in West Palm Beach, Florida.

Kristen, thank you.

The Biden campaign is seizing on the final countdown to Thursday's showdown by slamming Trump's economic vision in a new TV ad. Here's a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NARRATOR: Donald Trump loves to attack Joe Biden.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Joe Biden. Joe Biden.

NARRATOR: Because he's focused on revenge, and he has no plan to help the middle class. He would just give more tax cuts to the wealthy. Joe Biden is working every day to make your life more affordable. Donald Trump is only out for himself. Joe Biden is fighting for your family. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: With us now is Biden campaign senior spokesperson Adrienne Elrod.

Adrienne, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us.

ADRIENNE ELROD, BIDEN CAMPAIGN SENIOR SPOKESPERSON: Thanks for having me.

SANCHEZ: I want to ask you about the ad.

But, as Kristen was speaking, we got some new reporting about what's happening at Camp David. We have just learned that they're going through mock run-throughs of the debate. President Biden is standing at a podium and attorney Bob Bauer is playing Donald Trump. Apparently, they have some folks playing Jake Tapper and Dana Bash, who are moderating.

[13:05:15]

They are trying to recreate what it's like to go head-to-head with a candidate as unpredictable as Donald Trump. Talk about what that challenge is like for the campaign going into Thursday night.

ELROD: Yes.

Well, first of all, President Biden is taking his debate prep very seriously. It sounds like Donald Trump may have a different approach, but he's taking it very seriously, because you have got to think about this, Boris.

It's the first time that both Donald Trump and President Joe Biden have gone the same stage in nearly four years. Since then, Donald Trump has been a convicted felon times 34 times. He's been impeached twice. Roe has been overturned, which means women's reproductive rights have been in significant jeopardy.

So there's a lot that President Biden wants to talk to Donald Trump about. They have not had a direct conversation in front of the American people in nearly four years. He wants to talk about why he put three conservative Supreme Court justices on the court to overturn Roe.

He wants to talk about why he blocked the most historic bipartisan border bill that we had coming into Congress in 10 years, why he told his MAGA allies in Congress to block that legislation. He wants to talk about why he -- what his economic plan is, why he balanced -- why he cut corporate taxes on the backs of middle-class families when he was president.

There's a lot that he wants to talk to him about, so he is taking this debate prep very seriously. And he's looking forward to having a direct conversation with Donald Trump on Thursday night.

SANCHEZ: So you mentioned two things that, in recent weeks, folks in Trump world have cited as things they want to talk about because they perceive them as weaknesses for President Biden, namely, immigration and the economy.

And this new ad sort of lines up with the reporting that we have got recently from our folks at the White House and that are tracking the campaign that they want President Biden to focus on Trump's economic record, in part because folks around the country aren't thrilled about the way that the economy has gone.

What's your thought on that strategy and how effective it could be?

ELROD: Well, look, I think you have got to, first of all, take a step back and look at what President Biden has done for the economy. He's created over 15 million jobs. GDP has been at a record high and employment's been low, especially among black Americans and Hispanic Americans.

So you will see President Biden talking about his accomplishments. But you're also going to hear him talk about not only what his plans are for the future, how he's going to continue to lower costs for American families, but, also, what is Donald Trump's plan for the economy?

I mean, he and his MAGA allies practically cheered, jumped up and down, when inflation started going up as a result of a once-in-a- generation pandemic. So what is his plan? You're going to hear President Biden talk about that. And he's also going to make the case for the American people that he is fighting for them.

He's fighting for their economic freedom. He's fighting for their freedom across the board, versus Donald Trump, who simply wants to get back into the White House to seek political retribution on his enemies and, frankly, to keep himself out of jail.

SANCHEZ: Respectfully, the economic messaging from the White House and from the campaign doesn't seem to be gripping voters. And it's reflected in polling.

And I think we can share some recent polling done by CNN and others that shows that a majority of voters seem to trust Donald Trump when it comes to the economy.

So, when the president is up there talking about inflation and talking about the issues that everyday Americans face, how does he change that dynamic on Thursday night, when so many of those viewers already have a baked-in impression, not just of him, but of Donald Trump as well?

ELROD: Well, I'm glad you raise this question and raise this point, because this is one of the reasons why we wanted to have a debate in June, because the American people are starting to tune in more to this election.

They're starting to -- they're going on vacations with their families. They're starting to have real conversations about how they're going to vote in this election, what issues matter the most to them. So it was important to President Biden into our campaign that we actually went out there to the American people and had a direct conversation with Donald Trump about our different vision for America versus his dark vision of seeking political retribution and not really having a plan to deal with some of these issues.

Again, President Biden is very well aware that costs are still very high in some places for American families. Those costs have gone down. He has implemented plans to continue to drive those costs down. He also, of course, through some of the economic policies he put in place early on, his administration prevented us from going into a recession.

So I think you're going to hear him talk about that. But he's also going to talk about his plans for continuing to lower those costs and making it very clear to the American people that he is fighting for them.

And I think that's an important contrast point that you're going to hear President Biden certainly make on the debate stage.

SANCHEZ: One last question, Adrienne.

President -- former President Trump asking President Biden for a drug test going into Thursday night, what's your reaction?

ELROD: I mean, I don't even really know what to say about that. I worked on Hillary Clinton's campaign. She also debated him very effectively. He accused her of being on drugs. President Biden defeated Donald Trump twice in previous debates.

[13:10:03]

This is what he does, because he doesn't have anything else to run on. He doesn't have a plan. He doesn't have a record for fighting for the American people. He doesn't know why he's running, except for to seek political retribution his enemies. And so he has to resort to these types of tactics, which are, frankly, just silly.

Turns off a lot of voters, especially voters who want to see their president fight for them.

SANCHEZ: Adrienne Elrod, we have to leave the conversation there. Appreciate the perspective. Thanks for being with us.

ELROD: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: And, of course, be sure to watch President Biden and former President Trump face off, the first face-off of this election cycle, airing Thursday night at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

KEILAR: Right now, former President Trump's fight to toss the classified documents case against him is back under way.

There's a federal court hearing in Florida that is scheduled to start now before Judge Aileen Cannon. And in a late-night court filing, the Justice Department submitted these new images of how -- quote -- "haphazard" some records were found at Mar-a-Lago to undercut an argument by Trump's attorneys to throw out the case. SANCHEZ: Yes, not a great look, but his attorneys contend that

because prosecutors have not maintained the order of all documents inside their individual boxes, it hampers Trump's ability to build a defense.

Let's bring in CNN's Paula Reid.

So, Paula, what more did you learn from this filing?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Their most recent attempt to have this case thrown out focuses on how these boxes were handled after they were taken out of Mar-a-Lago.

The defense attorneys are arguing that because some things were moved in these boxes, that that could undermine their ability to defend their client at an eventual trial. They won't be able to argue, well, this document was right behind this news article. Clearly, it was inadvertent.

But the government punching back, saying, look, it was your client's decision to store sensitive materials in cardboard boxes along with -- quote -- "Christmas ornaments and clothing." And they said -- quote -- "The integrity of each container in which the evidence was found," that is box-to-box integrity, "has been maintained. Nothing has been lost, much less destroyed. And there's been no bad faith."

And they also shared these previously unseen photos that remind people also the fact that, when some of these boxes were discovered, documents were just strewn about the floor. So they have tried to dismiss this as -- quote -- "Trump's latest unfounded accusation against law enforcement professionals doing their job."

KEILAR: And today is the third day of hearings in this case. So many hearings in this case, by the way.

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: Yesterday, there were some apparent tensions in court. There's a prosecutor who actually apologized to Judge Cannon for his tone.

REID: Well, that's good. That's progress, because I have been down there in this court.

(LAUGHTER)

REID: And it's not just because it's hot outside in Florida. This is tense. There is no love lost between the prosecutors, the defense attorneys, and the judge at times gets testy with both sides.

Here, this specific exchange had to do with the judge pressing prosecutors on claims about law enforcement and the threats that law enforcement face as a result of comments Trump has made. And, at one point, the judge said to one of the prosecutors, David Harbach, she said: "Look, I don't like your tone." Now, subsequently, he apologized, but this kind of tension in this case with this judge, this has been happening since some of the early hearings that I was down there for. It doesn't surprise me at all. Definitely won't be the last time, but it is notable that he came around and he apologized.

SANCHEZ: Yes, some of that tension even comes through in the briefings, right?

REID: Oh yes.

SANCHEZ: Some of the language that's used.

REID: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

REID: Absolutely.

KEILAR: It is wild. It sure is.

Paula Reid, thank you so much for that. We appreciate it.

And still ahead, we're following some breaking news out of Kenya's capital, demonstrations turning deadly after protesters storm the country's Parliament and set city hall on fire. We will take you there live to explain why this is happening.

SANCHEZ: Plus: He's accused of one of the largest classified breaches in U.S. history, but now WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is on his way to being a free man.

We also have some stunning scenes to share with you across the Midwest, bridges, homes, roadways washed away by catastrophic flooding. We have the latest on rising water levels -- still ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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[13:18:25]

KEILAR: We are monitoring some pretty shocking developments right now in Kenya, where proposed tax hikes have set off just this wave of violence in the capital city of Nairobi, protesters and police clashing in the streets.

A joint statement by several groups inside the country say at least five people have been killed in this. We have CNN reporters on the ground saying that they saw police firing live rounds at demonstrators.

SANCHEZ: The fires even broke out at Parliament and Nairobi's city hall, lawmakers forced to evacuate amid security breaches.

CNN's Larry Madowo is live for us on the scene in Nairobi.

And, Larry, we just learned that Kenya's president is going to address the nation just minutes from now.

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

We're expecting a statement from President William Ruto at 2:00 p.m. Eastern. And he will have to carefully weigh his words after the extraordinary day we saw on the streets here. There's still a heavy security presence here protecting the Parliament, which is down that way. You can't see it in the dark.

But all these officers here are just to make sure that the protesters don't come back in the night and try and go back into Parliament, which is what their intention was the whole day. You still see them sitting out here with some of the water cannon trucks that we have been seeing the whole day pushing back the protesters, using a lot of tear gas.

And every time the protesters were pushed back, they would regroup and come right back, overwhelming the police and going all the way to Kenya's Parliament, to the floor of the House, sitting on the speaker's seat and removing the mace from the speaker's House, all these protests over overtaxation in Kenya, against the new finance bill that many of these protesters say will make their life even more expensive, when there's already an extraordinarily high cost of living, that they cannot afford to live in the country.

[13:20:14]

And a terrible scene for President William Ruto, who did acknowledge on Sunday that these young people had some legitimate concerns, and he would be engaging them. But the people out on the streets today did not feel that he had adequately responded to their demands.

And so you see some of the looting we saw today. This is outside of Carrefour market. It's a store here just outside Kenya's Supreme Court. And there's just products strewn all over, from baby formula, to flour, to yogurt, to chocolate, to sanitary pads. It's all down there on the floor.

We saw a part of a building one block where every single building had been vandalized, ransacked, nothing of -- valuable left there. And part of the anger is because the protesters saw the heavy police presence and seemed to want to exact revenge. And they really did in some cases just rampage through a huge block to damage everything in their path to make their voices heard.

KEILAR: All right, Larry, just pictures really telling the story there. We appreciate you showing that to us.

After spending the past five years in a high-security British prison, the man accused of one of the largest classified breaches in U.S. history will soon be a free man. WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange was released from a London jail overnight and is currently flying to a U.S. territory, the remote Northern Mariana Islands, which is not far from his home country of Australia.

And he will be heading there for a plea hearing with an American judge that is going to take place tomorrow.

The agreement with the U.S. government means that Assange avoids prison time in the U.S. And as part of the deal, Assange pleads guilty to a single felony count of illegally obtaining and disclosing national security material. That included, of course, one of the largest leaks of confidential military information in American history, nearly 500,000 secret documents related to the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

He had faced 18 charges for his alleged role in the breach. We have former Army intelligence officer -- or -- pardon me -- former Army intelligence officer Chelsea Manning provided those documents to Assange that was back in 2010 and 2011. And that information, the U.S. says, endangered the lives of confidential sources.

This may be the end to a nearly-15-year-long saga where Assange spent years trying to avoid U.S. prosecution after seeking asylum in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London.

And we're joined now by former CIA officer Bob Baer to talk a little bit more about this.

So, Bob, no jail time in the U.S. with this deal, though Assange, of course, has not -- he's not really been a free man for many, many years. Does this plea deal fit the bill, in your opinion?

ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA OFFICER: Well, it does under American law. He, in fact, technically didn't commit espionage. He didn't have access himself to secrets. He stole those secrets.

Secondly, he was not a journalist. A journalist would not have put those names in the leaks that probably got people killed. And there's a lot of other questions about his connections with Russia. He had at a time a server -- operating off a server in Moscow. He had a lot of strange Russian contacts.

He never ran leaks against Russia at all. So, in the intelligence community, the FBI, the question was, was he a Russian proxy? That was never proven. And this is why they couldn't make a stronger case against him.

So, releasing him, it was Department of Justice's -- really its only option at this point.

KEILAR: You mentioned the possible and likely deaths of local sources in Iraq and Afghanistan. Just remind us how significant Assange's release of American military information was.

BAER: Well, Brianna, he put names in the release.

And "New York Times," "Washington Post," CNN, if they get those kind of names, they never publicize them. They want to protect lives. He didn't do that. He's not a journalist, as I just said. He put those names in the leaks. He did not redact them. We don't know what's happened to a lot of those people. Probably, a lot of them got a bullet in the back of the head, and it's thanks to him. KEILAR: He's a controversial figure in the U.S. He's an enemy of the

state to some. He's a folk hero and a whistle-blower and, though you say, no, he's -- he doesn't act like a journalist, and I agree with you on that, he's even seen as a bit of a journalist by some, despite the very important characteristics you point out that he does not share with them.

How do you see that debate?

BAER: Well, he's controversial, in my mind, because, like any war, there was a lot of wrongs done in Iraq by the American military. I mean, that is just established, happens. Exposing them is good, like exposing the Pentagon Papers. I have nothing against whistle-blowers like that.

[13:25:04]

So, as you just said, he is controversial. He did us a service in one sense, but what purpose, and, in crossing the line, I really have sort of no sympathy for him.

KEILAR: If he had just redacted these documents, would it be a different assessment, in your opinion, of sort of the value he provided?

BAER: Oh, absolutely. If CNN had put those documents out, redacted, I would completely support it, because we need the truth on what happened in Iraq, the invasion and everything after that, Americans need that truth, and that's what whistle-blowers do for us.

But there -- like we keep talking about, there is a line he crossed, which is unfortunate.

KEILAR: Bob, thank you so much for your insights.

Bob Baer, we appreciate it.

And still to come: The surgeon general says there is nothing normal about gun violence in America, which is why he's declaring it an urgent public health crisis. But what does the advisory actually do? We're going to take a closer look at that.

And South Korea says hundreds more of those trash balloons were launched from North Korea. We're going to have the latest on this kind of disgusting, in some cases, exchange ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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