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Biden & Trump Face Off In CNN Presidential Debate In Two Days; WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange To Plead Guilty In Order To Avoid U.S. Prison Time; Israeli Supreme Court Orders Govt To Draft Ultra- Orthodox Israeli Jews Into The Military. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired June 25, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:32]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Two men, one big night. How the candidates are preparing for the first presidential debate of the year, and what President Biden's advisors consider Donald Trump's weak spot.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Plus, political fallout in Israel, as the nation's top court rules ultra-Orthodox Jews must be drafted into the nation's military. It is a huge blow for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

And selling off his assets to pay for his lies. We now know what will happen to Infowars, the far-right outlet founded by conspiracy theorist Alex Jones.

We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: The countdown is on. We're just 48 hours plus, a couple there, out from the first presidential debate. And we've learned that right now, President Biden and his advisors are holding mock debates at Camp David, formal run-throughs of Thursday night's big showdown, right here as you can see on your screen on CNN.

Sources tell us the President is using a podium while aides are standing in for former President Donald Trump and the debate moderators, our colleagues Jake Tapper and Dana Bash.

KEILAR: As for former President Trump, we're told that he has no plans to engage in mock debates. Instead, he's taking a less formal approach by spending the next two days in policy discussions at Mar-a-Lago. In fact, in a new interview, Trump had this to say, quote, "It's very hard to prepare. I think debating is an attitude more than anything else."

In the meantime, what are the top issues on voters' minds heading into the CNN debate?

SANCHEZ: Yes, come Thursday night, Biden and Trump have just 90 minutes to speak directly to the American people about the issues that matter most to them. And with no audience, they'll have a limited way to gauge how their message is resonating. CNN Senior Data Reporter Harry Enten joins us now.

So Harry, what issues, according to polling, are most pertinent to voters right now?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I just want to be clear, I held a mock segment before this actual segment. I had a few people, although it was very difficult to find people to match your two wonderfulness, but I was able to do it.

Anyway, all right, let's run some numbers here. What are the major factors that, you know, folks are saying for their vote for president? And look, we've been talking about it all year long. Numero uno is the economy, 82 percent. Right behind it is another form of the economy, I guess, inflation, 75 percent. Interestingly enough, state of democracy, number three at 71 percent. That's obviously been an issue that Joe Biden's been hitting upon.

So these are the three top major factors. So the question is, who do voters trust more on these issues, Joe Biden or Donald Trump? Well, on inflation, this is where Donald Trump wants to be playing. Look at that, an 18-point lead over Joe Biden. The economy, another area where Donald Trump would be happy to play ball. Look at that, a 13-point lead in average of polls on the economy for the former president.

The only one of those top major factor issues where Joe Biden leads is the state of democracy. Look at that, a seven point advantage, which is not half bad, but I think if you asked a lot of folks on the Democratic side, they would hope this margin would climb ever higher. And I guess Thursday's debate is a chance for them or at least a chance for Joe Biden to sort of push that message home.

SANCHEZ: There's that old adage from James Carville, right? It's the economy stupid. And that, I think, has some historical precedent. Harry, how has the economy impact elections in the past?

ENTEN: Yes. So I went back in time. You know me, I love digging through the polling archives. So I did it earlier today and I looked back at the polling archives since 1976. And sure enough, I asked, is it always the economy stupid?

Well, the candidate trusted more on the economy has won eight times since 1976, but actually has lost four times since 1976. So yes, more times than not, the candidate trusted more on the economy wins. But if you asked Donald Trump last time around, did you win the 2020 election, despite what he says, the actual truth is, no, he did not win that election. And he, of course, was trusted more in the economy. So yes, you bat better than you bat worse, but it's far from a guarantee, Boris.

KEILAR: And take us through democracy being a top three issue.

ENTEN: This to me is one of those interesting questions where, again, I go into that polling archive and I type in these key words and I go, okay, do we have any polling on the past than this?

[15:05:06] Well, cycles when presidential polls ask, who was better on democracy, there has only been one time when that was asked, and that's this year, 2024. The other 19 times, the other 19 cycles on which we have polling, that question wasn't even asked. So this is a very unique time, a very unique issue and Joe Biden, of course, given the polling that we see here, trusted more on that particular issue, is definitely going to be a message that he's going to push on Thursday night. Of course, we'll just have to wait and see whether or not that message works for him.

KEILAR: Yes, we certainly will. All right, Harry, thank you for that. We appreciate it.

ENTEN: Thank you.

KEILAR: Who do you think played you in his little mock segment?

SANCHEZ: Michael Smerconish.

KEILAR: Probably.

SANCHEZ: How about you?

KEILAR: Yes, that makes sense. John Berman, maybe.

SANCHEZ: Nailed it. Yes, probably Berman.

KEILAR: Probably. All right, four sources close to the White House telling CNN they're urging the Biden campaign to use the debate to really go after Trump on the economy, specifically his perceived cozy relationship with corporate America. And in a new ad, the campaign does just that. Here it is.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump loves to attack Joe Biden.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Joe Biden.

Joe Biden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because he's focused on revenge and he has no plan to help the middle class. He'd just give more tax cuts to the wealthy.

Here's the difference, Donald Trump is only out for himself. Joe Biden is fighting for your family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: At the same time, CNN has just obtained a letter written by 16 Nobel Prize-winning economists. And in it, they warn against a second Trump presidency. CNN's Matt Egan got a hold of this letter.

Matt, what does it say?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Boris and Brianna, inflation clearly remains public enemy number one in this economy. Americans are so frustrated with the cost of living. Yet in this letter, these 16 Nobel Prize winning economists, they're saying that Trump's policies wouldn't just fail to fix inflation. It would actually make inflation even worse.

Let me read you a key line from this letter. These economists write: "We believe that a second Trump term would have a negative impact on the U.S.'s economic standing in the world and a destabilizing effect on the U.S.'s domestic economy."

Now, in particular, they argue that Trump would, quote, "reignite inflation." These economists point to, specifically, former President Trump's policies around taxes. Remember, Trump wants to extend the 2017 tax cuts. Economists say that would add trillions of dollars in debt. And it would give the economy a sugar rush that it probably doesn't need. Trump's also calling for lifting tariffs and an immigration crackdown, including unprecedented deportations at a time when businesses say they need more workers, not fewer.

Economists say that all three of those points would actually make inflation even worse. Reach out to the Trump campaign. They responded by blasting the economists, saying the American people don't need, quote, "worthless, out of touch Nobel Prize winners to tell them which president put more money in their pockets." Boris and Brianna?

KEILAR: Okay, so how does the economy compare for each president?

EGAN: Well, let's go back and look at how things were in this economy when former President Trump left office back in January 2021. At that point, the unemployment rate was 6.4 percent. Of course, that was coming down after spiking to almost 15 percent during the worst of the COVID crisis. We had very low inflation at that point, sub 2 percent.

Again, that was because the economy was still in this health crisis and consumer confidence was low. Again, that was related to COVID.

Now, if we look at how things are right now under President Biden, we can see the unemployment rate is actually lower, right, 4 percent. I mean, this is historically low. This is a job's boom. But clearly, the biggest problem in this economy under Biden is the cost of living, right?

Inflation, CPI is at 3.3 percent. That's how much prices were going up year-over-year. That's a massive improvement from two years ago when this was at 9 percent, but it is still too high. And that, of course, has weighed on consumer confidence, which is higher than it was under Trump, but still lower than you might expect when you're talking about historically low unemployment.

And listen, we're going to hear the two candidates battle it out on these very issues on Thursday night. And clearly, as Harry was just saying in the last segment, how people feel about this economy, that could be a major factor in November.

SANCHEZ: No question about that. Matt Egan, thanks so much.

EGAN: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: So now we have a pretty good idea of how voters are feeling about the issues, what they're most concerned about. We know how both sides are preparing, and we now know how both of them are planning to attack each other.

KEILAR: Yes, we do. And so with that, CNN Political Director David Chalian is joining us live to talk a little bit more about it.

[15:10:01]

He's already in Atlanta for Thursday night's face-off.

All right, David, advisors actually urging Biden to attack Trump's record instead of touting his own. This is interesting, the advice that he's getting there.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, this is something you hear sort of Democrats have been chatting about for quite some time. Usually Democrats, like, not in the inner Biden orbit, but just outside it, that the President, as one might expect any president wants to sort of defend their record. But that is not what they see as the critical goal here for Joe Biden. What they see and what they're sort of offering their - some of their unsolicited advice to the Biden team is make this all about the contrast.

Now, the Biden team obviously wants that contrast, too. It's why they clearly wanted to debate earlier than ever in a general election season, because they want Biden and Trump on the stage together to help wake up the American electorate, many of whom have tuned out of politics, to say this is the choice before you.

Now, the Trump campaign, though, guys, thinks that contrast suits them as well and therein lies the difference. Both these guys think standing next to the other one serves their purpose.

SANCHEZ: David, we just got some quotes from former President Trump who spoke with a Washington examiner. And he speaks about the difference in his two debate performances going back to 2020. He says, quote, "I was very aggressive in the first one. The second one, I was different, and I got great marks on the second one. I'm probably going to look at the scene this time. It's like a fight. It depends on what the situation is."

It doesn't line up exactly with the reporting that we got about a very disciplined Donald Trump going into this debate. It seems like he's leaving the door open to be a bit more aggressive.

CHALIAN: Perhaps, although it also seems to be a pretty self-aware Donald Trump in that quote, Boris, in sort of assessing those two debate performances. That - the beginning of that quote seems to indicate to me he's aware that when he was ultra-aggressive in 2020, that didn't necessarily land so well.

Listen, I think trying to guess exactly Donald Trump's demeanor or Joe Biden's demeanor and who will show up on the stage, that is a tricky proposition. These candidates need to prepare for every eventuality of what their opponent brings to the stage. But I think it's very revealing that Donald Trump himself sees a difference between his two 2020 debate performances against this same opponent. We don't usually have that opportunity. We do in this scenario because of the rematch and perhaps he thinks that second version of himself served his purposes better.

KEILAR: Yes. And we'll see, are they going to stick more to policy contrasts? Is it going to get personal? We don't know what these moments are going to be. But I wonder if you think the debate is going to present more opportunity or risk for the candidates.

CHALIAN: Clearly, it presents a bit of both. But I think you'll see, because I think any debate presents any kind of candidate risk, never mind the two oldest candidates to seek the presidency for 90 minutes, obviously. But I do think the opportunity is so huge for each of them. Because this race has been so remarkably stable, Brianna, and because we know there is a swath of the electorate that has been reluctant to tune in and engage on it, and both can't see bringing people who are not yet dialed into this race into the conversation as a critical component.

So I'm - I am very curious to see how they use that opportunity on this massive stage to try and reach that narrow swath of undecided, persuadable voters in these key battleground states. Every time they open their mouth, I'm going to be looking at through that lens of that small universe of voters who may actually prove decisive here.

SANCHEZ: Yes, there is so much to watch for. It is going to be the biggest moment that we've had so far in this election cycle. David Chalian, thanks so much for the analysis, as always.

CHALIAN: Thanks, guys.

SANCHEZ: Of course. And you will not want to miss President Joe Biden, former President Donald Trump, head-to-head, debating this Thursday, June 27th right here on CNN, starting at 9 PM.

Still ahead this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, he's accused of being involved in one of the largest U.S. government breaches of classified material ever. And right now, he's on his way to freedom we have the details of Julian Assange's plea deal.

KEILAR: Plus, it's a move that could unravel Benjamin Netanyahu's power as prime minister. The fallout after a major court ruling in Israel.

And prosecutors releasing never-before-seen pictures and pushing back on the former president's efforts to toss the classified documents case against him. A hearing underway right now. We have these major stories and more all coming up right here on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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[15:19:17] KEILAR: At this moment, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is in the air. He is on his way to a U.S. court in the Mariana Islands, near his home country of Australia. Well, kind of near, right? It's sort of roughly on the way. And that is where he is expected to enter a guilty plea tomorrow, which will allow him to avoid prison time in the U.S.

Assange was released from a high-security British prison last night where he had spent the past five years.

SANCHEZ: And notably, he's not coming to the continental U.S. deliberately to enter that plea agreement. As part of the deal, Assange pleads guilty to a single felony count of illegally obtaining and disclosing National Security material. It includes one of the largest leaks of confidential military information in U.S. history.

[15:20:03]

CNN's Zach Cohen joins us now.

So, Zach, let's take a step back. Remind us how this all unfolded.

ZACH COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, guys, this is maybe the last chapter of what's been a long and very personal saga for members of the U.S. Intelligence community, members of the U.S. military and for Assange himself. As you mentioned, he spent years in a British prison, a high-security prison, for his alleged role in this massive leak of military secrets. And this goes all the way back to 2010, right?

We remember that when WikiLeaks started publishing this trove of documents, it ultimately ended up being about 500,000 secret military records. And they were given to him by then-Army intelligence analyst Chelsea Manning. Prosecutors say that Assange effectively goaded her into giving him those records.

But, look, we've come to a point where this case has stretched out for so long that prosecutors and Assange have reached a point where they found an agreement that was mutually beneficial. Prosecutors were not going to accept a deal that didn't include a felony plea. Assange has been in prison for a long time and wanted his freedom, but did not want to stand trial in the continental U.S. So this deal effectively makes both of those things bright for both sides.

KEILAR: Any agreement on what future actions he, let's say, will not take?

COHEN: That's the biggest question, right? And that was part of why the Justice Department really wanted to insist that any agreement had to have a felony plea, sort of a deterrence effect, not just for Assange, but other maybe copycat actors that are thinking about publishing massive troves of classified documents.

But, look, this is a very complicated case, too, because Assange has argued that he enjoys the same First Amendment protections that you or I do as reporters. And we have to remember that some of the material he published, including that video that showed an attack, a helicopter attack in Baghdad, did reveal new details about civilian deaths in war zones. At the same time, prosecutors have said the documents put U.S. intelligence assets and U.S. service members' lives at risk.

So it's really a balancing act in a lot of complicated both political and free speech sort of issues at play here.

SANCHEZ: There was certainly a middle ground where some of that information could have been published and some of the more sensitive information, identifying information, could have been withheld.

Zach Cohen, thanks so much for the update. Appreciate it.

We've got a lot more to discuss today, including a controversial court decision in Israel that's threatening to unravel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his ruling coalition. The country's Supreme Court ordering the government draft ultra-Orthodox Jews into the military, something that hasn't been done since Israel's founding.

KEILAR: The decision comes at a pivotal moment in Israel's nine-month war against Hamas, as Israel's chief opposition leader, Benny Gantz, resigned from the country's war cabinet earlier this month. CNN's Paula Hancocks is in Jerusalem following all of this.

Paula, what's the reaction like there to this Supreme Court decision?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna and Boris, there really are two very different reactions. When it comes to the majority of Israelis, we've seen from many recent polls that the majority do believe that the ultra-Orthodox, the Haredi, should not be exempted from the mandatory military service here. However, on the other side, we are already hearing that there will be protests planned by the ultra-Orthodox.

So this Supreme Court decision was a unanimous decision, ordering the government to start bringing them into the mandatory military system. And also, if there are any religious schools that do not make their students basically accept these draft notices, then the funding will be taken away from those religious schools. So really trying to bring them into it as well, to try and make sure that these people actually comply.

Now, of course, there will be those who are not happy, the Israeli prime minister, for example, Benjamin Netanyahu. He has two ultra- Orthodox parties within his ruling coalition, and they help him to stay in power. If they then decide to pull out of the coalition, then that poses a very big problem for the prime minister himself.

Now, we've also heard from the deputy attorney general already saying to the government that they have to draft 3,000 ultra-Orthodox soldiers within this recruitment year. So it'll be very interesting to watch this one going forward.

SANCHEZ: And Paula, a report released today by the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification says that Gaza's population is at risk of famine. What more are you learning? HANCOCKS: Yes, so this group is effectively the U.N.'s hunger monitoring system, and it says that almost the whole of Gaza, 96 percent, and that is about 2 million people plus, are at risk of famine within the next three months. And they said that will be the case if the situation and the conditions do not change.

So if the conflict continues for the next three months and if there is a problem with getting humanitarian aid into the country.

[15:25:00]

Now, we've heard from humanitarian aid groups saying that they agree with these findings, the World Food Programme saying they agree. It basically matches the testimony that we have been hearing on the ground in Gaza. Not just that there is not enough aid getting in, but also these groups saying that there has become a very difficult task and dangerous task to try and distribute this aid.

We've heard the State Department as well, the - Matthew Miller, the spokesperson there, saying this was discussed between the Israeli Defense Minister, Yoav Gallant, and Lloyd Austin in Washington just today about how they can secure these U.N. groups, these humanitarian aid groups, to make sure that the aid is getting to where it needs to because of the lawlessness in Gaza, because of the looting and criminal gangs trying to take this aid.

So this report really does highlight once again just how desperate the situation is in Gaza.

KEILAR: Yes. So important. Paula, thank you for that report live for us from Jerusalem.

Next, the latest from a Florida courtroom where a hearing was held in former President Trump's classified documents case, as prosecutors reveal never-before-seen pictures.

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