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Rep. Mike Kelly Describes Scene at Trump Rally After Shots Fired; GOP Convention Begins Today After Trump Assassination Attempt; Judge Dismisses Trump Classified Documents Indictment. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired July 15, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHARLIE DENT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ASPEN INSTITUTE CONGRESSIONAL PROGRAM: Misguided and we have to debate them, but we have to start talking to each other like we're -- like we actually respect one another.

[09:30:07]

And until we get to that point, you know, I think it's going to be hard for us. I get it. Politics is a bare-knuckle sport in many cases, and it's a tough arena, but we have to have some rules and we just don't seem to have them anymore. We used to have -- we used to have norms and guidelines. They just don't -- they just don't exist.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Yeah, politics has never been nice, but it doesn't have to be violent. Charlie Dent, thank you so much, and Julie Roginsky. I appreciate both of you chatting with me this morning.

John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So we are standing by for Donald Trump to make his first appearance at the Republican National Convention. You can see live pictures right there, people walking down on the floor, his first appearance since the assassination attempt.

And this morning we're getting new firsthand accounts from witnesses to what happened in Pennsylvania Saturday night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:35:13]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Today, both Donald Trump and President Biden are calling for unity in the wake of Saturday's assassination attempt on Donald Trump.

Both Republicans and Democrats are echoing. We are seeing that today. Echoing their party leaders this morning. As the Republican National Convention here in Milwaukee is kicking off in just hours.

We are also today hearing more from the people who were at that rally on Saturday. What they experienced, what they lived through. and how that is impacting them as the reality of how close a call it really was for so many is setting in.

President Trump, shot in the ear. One man in the bleachers behind him, killed as he was shielding his family. Two others injured and sent to the hospital.

Joining me right now is Republican Congressman from Pennsylvania, Mike Kelly. He was at Saturday's rally in Butler. You were front row right there with your wife, your children, and your -- and some of your -- some of your children, some of your grandchildren right there with you, Congressman.

What's sticking with you most right now as you've had a day to process and a day to, you know, be with your family and kind of work through what the country has experienced here?

REP. MIKE KELLY, (R) PENNSYLVANIA: Yeah, and Kate, thank you for having us on. The day started off so incredibly wonderful. This is my hometown. This is where I've lived all my life. My grandchildren were with me, and of course my wife was there.

And so when these things happen, it was so surrealistic. It's like you could hear this pop, pop, pop, pop, and I saw the president go down. And I said, oh my God, somebody just shot the president. Then I hear behind me in the stands somebody crying, oh my gosh, he's hurt, he's hurt. And I turned around, I could see people with blood on their shirts and stuff.

Where's Vicky? Where's the grandchildren? Where are my friends? And so it's like one of those things, you're kind of caught between a lot of different things going on at the same time. And you're just going mechanically, you're going through it, right? Your first concern is for your loved ones and for those that are in the same spots.

Very unusual day, but I got to tell you when you sit back and you think about it. Now, my grandson Charles was with me, and he goes, Grandpa, why would anybody try to kill President Trump?

And I said, Charles, I can't answer that. Now, for a nine-year-old to try and process what's going on, Maeve was there, Helena was there. And they're trying to understand what happened.

But wonderfully, you know, we had a chance to talk a little bit Saturday night. My wife, everybody got -- we went to mass Sunday morning, and they got back into their regular life. And they're heading -- by the way, they're heading to Milwaukee right now. They want to be part of what's going to happen.

Very unusual moment. I mean this is something nobody should ever have to experience. A child should never have to be there. But the confusion that took place, the people that were watching it.

You know, I think one of the moments that caught me more than anything else is I'm really -- people, the security people say, everybody down, everybody down, everybody down.

And people were laying on top of each other and trying to shield people. And I looked up. I stood up to see the president stand up and then put his arm up in the air.

And people then started chanting, USA, USA. And I thought at that moment, boy, that's the guy you want to be in the huddle with. That's the quarterback you want calling the play. That's the guy who says, OK, this is the play we're going to run. This is the snap count. Let's go out there. Everybody do what they're supposed to do, and we'll win.

And then I thought that was so inspiring, not to see a guy who was cowering away from this, right? Please, somebody help me, but a guy who was being defiant and standing at the top and addressing a crowd.

I can't -- there could have been 30,000, 40,000 people. We don't know exactly, but it was an incredible turnout and an incredible day. That happened, a moment in history. I'm hoping the American people understand what took place on Saturday in Butler, Pennsylvania at the Butler Farm Show Grounds where the 4-H kids show their -- show off their animals, where we celebrate the rural area and the agriculture community.

If this can happen at that spot in America, then there's something wrong. There is something dramatically wrong. We better take a look, and people ask me, whose fault do you think it is or was? And I said, ours. My thing is, go find a mirror and look in that mirror, and that reflection, that person looking back at you, is the person most responsible for what you think, what you say, and how you act.

We've got to make sure that we act all the time, not as Republicans, not as Democrats, but as Americans. These are not red and blue issues. These are red, white, and blue issues.

Come together. Let's make sure that if we have an election coming up, look at who the candidates are. Who do you think is the strongest leader for you going into the next four years? That's all I'm asking people to do. You don't have to get all spun up. You don't have to get all wrapped around the axle and yelling things at other people.

[09:40:02]

Just look at it, get registered, get informed, get out and vote, and make sure that we all do our part to make America great again, and kind of in deference to the million and a half men and women in uniform that gave their lives to give us this opportunity. How can we be so casual about these things? We can't be. It's time to get fully engaged.

Let's unify under the red, white, and blue flag that we all salute. Let's make sure that we understand. If it's to be -- it's up to me. We've got to make sure that we are Americans first before anything else.

BOLDUAN: And we are hearing that, what you're saying. We are hearing that from President Biden, we heard in his Oval Office address last night about bringing the temperature down. And we're hearing that from Donald Trump today in a new interview, and really his first reaction to what he lived through. One of the things that he said was how this is -- how this is -- he's recalibrating how he's looking at this coming week with the convention when he said, I had all prepared an extremely tough speech, a really good all -- really good all about the corrupt, horrible administration, but I threw it away. I want to try to unite our country, but I don't know if that's possible. People are very divided.

I have covered you for years, Congressman, you have been in the politics quote unquote, "game" for many years. Do you -- people are very divided. No one is blind to that. Do you think it is possible? Do you think if not unity, civility could return in a real way?

KELLY: Yeah, you know, but I think if you look at policy versus politics, if you look at the record versus strong rhetoric, there's very clear differences between the way the previous administration when President Trump was in office and this current administration.

I think we need to get back to what is it that we have to really debate? What is it that we have to evaluate America's position in the world? Domestically, are we doing the right things for the people that we all represent? And people tell me, well, you know what, Kelly, I didn't vote for you, but I appreciate the fact that you did this or that.

And I said, well, listen, I didn't know until right now you didn't vote for me. But one thing I wish we would all do, study the records, look at the policies and make a decision. What is in the best interest of America, American citizens and our position globally? How does the rest of the world look at us?

On Saturday, we look like a third world country where if you don't like whatever it is you're running against, look, just don't vote for who you don't like. Vote for who you do like. Vote for who you've studied the records to see who can do the best job.

But it's become too much just back and forth, back and forth. Some of the language has become way, way, way too off the charts. And I will just say it's easy to get caught up in. But the idea for me is always when you come out of that locker room. And now I'm talking about the United States locker room. We got our kids participating in the Olympics.

Listen, I think that we should all look at America. We just don't want to participate. We want to dominate. We want to have the best policy in the world, the best people in the world, for the greatest country, greatest nation the world has ever known, who has been so blessed by the divinity that we believe in. Whatever you believe is fine.

I just say yesterday my wife took our grandchildren to mass. They came back from that. And, of course, they had celebrated going to receiving the sacrament and everything else. I think that is who America is.

Let's look about who it was that came before us, the sacrifices that they made to give us these opportunities. And let's put whatever rhetoric it is we have behind us, look at records, look at results, look at where we're going as a nation, and then make a decision. What is in the best interest of not only yourself, but those coming after us, the future generations?

That's the whole key to where we're coming. Listen, this has been a rough couple years for people. Saturday was rough for the folks that were at that rally. We can rally now as a nation to make a determination who is going to lead us the next four years.

So I'm just asking people, let's look at the game films. Let's look at the best policies for America. And then let's make a decision who we vote for, who we want in office, who we want to be our quarterback to call the right plays at the right time to win the game. I don't want to just participate. I want America to dominate in the best senses of it.

BOLDUAN: Congressman, thank you so much for coming on. And, again, what you and your family and your poor sweet grandchildren are now needing to process. It's really good to see your face. Thank you so much for coming.

BERMAN: Thank you very much, Kate. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: John?

BERMAN: All right, this morning, a new one, a sort of unfamiliar strategy from the Trump campaign. What they say will be a new message of unity following his near-death experience. And we are standing by as really any moment now Donald Trump could announce his choice for running mate.

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[09:47:18]

BOLDUAN: Here in Milwaukee, the Republican National Convention is kicking off today in just hours. They will be gaveling in and it all gets underway.

This morning, after surviving an attempted assassination, Donald Trump is here in Wisconsin, in Milwaukee, where he is scheduled, where he will be obviously accepting his nomination. And any minute, any moment now, he could be announcing and revealing who his running mate pick is, after all of this.

Joining me right now is CNN Senior Political Analyst Mark Preston. We've heard throughout the morning -- we heard last night, we've heard throughout the morning, I've heard from many of the elected officials that we had on the show this morning, the call for unity, the call for bringing the temperature down.

It is important. It needs to happen. I'm wondering, though, what that looks like when it transitions onto this stage, when this really gets underway. What do you -- what do you think this is -- this is going to look like?

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I mean -- and I sound like a doomsday sayer here but -- BOLDUAN: Maybe just reality.

PRESTON: Look, the reality is -- is that we are already back into it. We are going to see the politic can come back. I mean, the fact is, and I said this yesterday, and I do mean this, is that the nation can't allow a 20-year-old lone gunman on the roof who tries to assassinate somebody fails to make us change who we are.

Now, we'll see over the next, you know, four nights the Trump campaign, which is more disciplined than we've ever seen before, is trying to keep these speakers focused on these issues because it looks good. It looks good for Donald Trump, and it allows him to seem more presidential.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, and also interesting reporting from "Axios" and others of they don't -- he does not want people to be throwing out the script, dialing up the rhetoric to stay more, to stay on point. Then you've got the flip side of what the Biden campaign is experiencing right now.

You know, President Biden being presidential, giving the Oval Office remarks. But there's also this call between the Biden campaign and the DNC. They held with staffers.

And they said ahead of the primetime address, and Jen O'Malley Dillon, the Campaign Chair, said "There's no charted course for what we're going through in this country and for this campaign."

How -- what -- what -- I mean, what a moment for a rival campaign to have to navigate as well. I think Arlette described it as sensitive and delicate. It seems fraught.

PRESTON: It seems harder than sensitive and delicate, too. You know, it's one of these situations where they're in a rock-and-a-hard place. No matter what President Biden does, he's going to be scrutinized for what he says and how he looks.

Look, no matter -- if this had not even happened on Saturday, we would still be scrutinizing President Biden whenever he, you know, went before the public. But we've saw him three times since the shooting appear before the cameras, including that Oval Office address.

[09:50:05]

They're trying, I think, to walk a very fine line of looking presidential, not looking like they're campaigning. But at the same time, they kind of are because they want him to look presidential and in control.

BOLDUAN: And you have -- and they're going to -- TV ads are going to have to go back on air.

PRESTON: Absolutely.

BOLDUAN: Outgoing communications is going to pick back up. I guess it's how you thread the needle and how you create some balance might be the key.

PRESTON: How about with respect?

BOLDUAN: Oh, I like that idea. Who knew? Especially coming from you.

PRESTON: I know, off the board.

BOLDUAN: I was kidding. It's good to see you. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:55:10]

SIDNER: Saturday's assassination attempt on former President Trump is a new, of course, major historical moment. But political violence in America, not new at all. 1912, former President Theodore Roosevelt, like Trump, was campaigning to get back in the Oval Office. He was shot on his way to a campaign speech in Milwaukee, which is coincidentally where this year's Republican National Convention will begin this morning in just a bit here.

For more on the historical nature of all of this, we are joined by Presidential Historians Allan Lichtman and Doug Brinkley.

We are very lucky to have you gentlemen here this morning. I am curious, from your perspective, if you look at the litany of people who have either been assassinated, had assassination attempts against them, this is not new. So when you saw this news, what sort of, what's your initial response to it all?

(CROSSTALK)

ALLAN LICHTMAN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Yeah, mine? Yeah, this isn't new at all. And --

SIDNER: I'm going to start -- I'm sorry, Allan, I'll start with you.

LICHTMAN: Yes, this isn't new at all. Of course, violence, political violence is endemic in America. And here's my first thought, something no one else has talked about. Yes, this was a horrible tragedy that involves a former president and presidential candidate. But mass shootings like this are as common in America as the sunrise. They occur every single day. The very day after this tragedy, seven people were killed in a mass shooting in Alabama.

And as a historian, I draw on the model of the shooting of Ronald Reagan, when his staunchly conservative Republican press secretary, James Brady, was grievously wounded. Instead of seeking revenge or political advantage, he brought the country together to adopt the first major gun control measures to deal with this epidemic of gun violence. That's a top killer of our kids that kills, murders 40 Americans every day, are murdered by a gun, and many more commit suicide by gun. An American today is --

BERMAN: Professor, I'm sorry to have to break him off. We have some major breaking news. I'm reading this right off the paper. Judge Aileen Cannon in Florida has dismissed the classified documents

case against Donald Trump because the special prosecution -- the special counsel prosecution, she says, is in violation of the appointments clause of the Constitution.

Judge Aileen Cannon, of course, who is the Trump-appointed judge overseeing the classified documents case, has dismissed the case because of the appointments clause. This is something that Judge Clarence Thomas had written about in the immunity decision here before.

But it's interesting that Judge Cannon is basing it all on this. Let's get right to Katelyn Polantz, who's covering this, who I hope has much more information for us. Katelyn, what are you learning?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR REPORTER, CRIME AND JUSTICE: John, we're still reading this decision from Judge Aileen Cannon out of the Southern District of Florida. But this is a monumental moment that closes the case against Donald Trump for mishandling classified records at Mar-a-Lago for obstruction of justice. Those were the charges.

There were other people facing those charges as well. And what Judge Cannon has now found is that case closed, the special counsel's office does not have the power to bring these charges in federal court.

She writes that any scheduled hearings are canceled, any pending motions are denied as moot, any pending deadlines are terminated. That's it. This judge believes this case cannot go on.

Of course, there is the possibility that the Justice Department could appeal, but this is the trial judge that has been handling this case for a year now, siding essentially with what Justice Thomas wrote in his recent concurrence in the -- looking at the special counsel's office.

And Judge Cannon says that under the Constitution and United States law, the special counsel cannot conduct this prosecution. That's it.

John.

BERMAN: Just to be clear, is she saying that special counsels in general, full stop, can't prosecute people ever? And she's just applying it at this point to this case for the first time? Because this is a novel ruling from a district judge.

POLANTZ: Yeah, we have -- so, John, I'm not going to get that far down the reasoning yet because I haven't read the full opinion and it's quite long. But she does appear to be saying that this is just not something that complies with the Constitution, the way that the Justice Department and the executive branch is putting in place a special counsel like Jack Smith.