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Trump Shooter Alerted as Suspicious Person Before Shooting; Special Counsel Appeals Dismissal of Trump Classified Docs Case; Trump Does RNC Stage Walk-Through; Interview with Asa Hutchinson, (R) Former 2024 Presidential Candidate: Policy Differences and Republican Party Unity; Rep. Adam Schiff Calls on Biden to Step Aside in 2024 Race. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired July 17, 2024 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

STEVE MOORE, RETIRED FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: ... would suspect that this person probably looked at previous shootings like this, maybe the one in Las Vegas, and saw all the ways that the FBI and the other agencies tried to find out motives and insights into their person. And so he likely, if I were to guess, probably just did everything he could to keep all of his thoughts and impressions to himself, which means you got to look for other devices he might have used and discarded.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And the FBI will be doing an after action investigation of everything that led up to this assassination attempt. Can you give us a sense of what that will look like?

MOORE: Well, it's going to be kind of tough, you know, between the FBI and Secret Service, because the FBI is going to have to have some interaction with Secret Service on their operation, and they don't like to necessarily be judged by another organization. But you have to do that. The Secret Service has to determine what they did wrong, what they did right, what the local police did wrong, and what they did right.

The biggest challenge in all of this is going to be, will the Secret Service and the FBI play nice together? And I'm sincerely hoping that they go with this hand in hand, because you're going to have to look at everything right down to individual agents. Mainly, I would say, the planning operation for this, and then the delegation of tasks at the site, because it seems like we have, number one, lack of communication, lack of understanding as to who was responsible for what, and then no means of how to address a threat that came up right in the middle of the whole thing.

KEILAR: Yes, I mean, the shooter went through the magnetometer, as we heard Danny Freeman reporting there, with this rangefinder, the kind of thing hunters use to find yardage to a target. Should he have had surveillance by the Secret Service or by law enforcement after that, while in the secure area, but also after he left the secure area?

MOORE: If a person comes through a protect-ease event with a device that can be used to determine a target range from a firearm, I don't follow him anymore. I confront him. I pull him aside, I talk to him, and I want to say, who are you? Why are you here? Hey, what's the rangefinder for? Do you have golf clubs here, or is there a firearm nearby?

There is, you know, there's none of this, let's be subtle, once you see a rangefinder come in, especially if you also had a transmitter whose use you didn't necessarily understand. That is not a, let's watch this guy. That's a, hey, pull him over here. We need to talk.

KEILAR: Yes, you're the second. It was also, we had Jonathan Wackrow on, formerly of the Secret Service, who said the exact same thing, that you go and get a sense of what's going on. Steve Moore, great to speak with you. Thank you so much.

MOORE: Thank you very much.

KEILAR: And let's head back to Milwaukee and to Boris.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We're following breaking news now into CNN. As was widely expected, Special Counsel Jack Smith's team has appealed the decision by Judge Aileen Cannon to throw out the classified documents indictment against former President Donald Trump.

Joining us now is CNN anchor Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlin, this was not something that was unexpected, but it's still fast.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it's quite fast. I actually have 30 days to do this. And so you are seeing Jack Smith's office move very quickly to try to get this decision by Judge Cannon reversed.

It was a shock decision that came down on Monday, the first day of this Republican convention, and certainly news that the Trump team internally was celebrating, as Judge Cannon outright said she was dismissing the case, basically on a separation of powers issue, nothing to do with actual merits of the classified documents case. Which is actually viewed by a lot of people in Trump's orbit and his former attorneys as one of the clearest cut cases against him, given they have audio of Trump talking about classified documents. They had the notes of his former attorney, Evan Corcoran, that they were able to obtain by piercing that attorney and client privilege.

And so this is notable here because Jack Smith's team is appealing this. It goes to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals that will review this decision and decide whether or not Judge Cannon made the right move here. They certainly could reverse it. We have heard from some people who believe that they will, some who don't know. It's kind of an open question of what move they take.

But of course, the takeaway from that is that it takes time. And already this case did not seem like it was going to trial before the election anyway, based on how long she was taking to rule on some key motions.

[15:35:00]

And so, Boris, just to give you some insight into this Court of Appeals that is going to now be handling this momentous decision. They've handled other big decisions we've seen.

They're based out of Atlanta. About half the judges actually on that court were appointed by Donald Trump when he was president of the United States. But we've seen them rule, not always in ways that you expect. Remember when his chief of staff, Mark Meadows, tried to get his D.C. or, excuse me, his Georgia indictment moved from being in a state court to federal court, they rejected that and said no.

And so this is going to be really interesting, because they've already faced this question of whether or not a special counsel is legitimate if they are picked by the attorney general and not picked -- nominated by the president and then confirmed by the Senate. They did so when Robert Mueller was the special counsel and when Donald Trump was president. So the question here is whether or not they'll rule any differently this time. It's still an open question as of this matter -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: And Kaitlan, to tie it back to what we've seen here in Milwaukee, Donald Trump's legal troubles have found their way into some of the speeches, including last night we heard from the mother of a young man that was murdered talking about Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg. And so even though these legal cases are still finding their way through the court system, here at the RNC, politics is front and center.

COLLINS: Yes, that was one of the loudest boos that I think we've heard so far. I've been spending a lot of time down on the delegation floor listening to people and how they respond to certain speeches. Obviously, you've seen people like Kari Lake, the Senate candidate in Arizona, go after the media. That prompted some widespread boos from the audience.

You heard it from others talking about it, not really any, during Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis, notably two critics who were quite praiseworthy of Donald Trump on stage last night. But when that mom, whose son was a veteran, brought up the district attorney in Manhattan, there were a lot of boos that you heard in the audience here.

And yes, you're hearing a lot of people also, people like Vivek Ramaswamy tying Donald Trump's legal troubles to what happened to him on Saturday in Butler, Pennsylvania, that attempted assassination. They keep using the word they without really specifying who they are talking about, but saying they're after him legally. And then they also tried to kill him.

Obviously, those are unrelated circumstances. We don't know the motive of the shooter on Saturday night. He was actually a registered Republican.

But it does speak to the moment that we're in, and also how all of Donald Trump's legal troubles have kind of loomed over this entire campaign, but even this convention, with that decision from Judge Cannon coming on Monday.

I'll tell you in a few hours, we do plan to speak with Todd Blanche, one of Donald Trump's lead attorneys, and we'll get his reaction to Jack Smith's move here to appeal this decision by Judge Cannon and try to get it reversed.

SANCHEZ: Kaitlan, thank you so much for that.

Obviously, the start of the RNC, just about two and a half hours away, still a lot to watch out for. And plenty more news to come on NEW CENTRAL, including from cutthroat to complimentary, the delicate dance from Donald Trump's one-time opponents as they fall in line.

We're going to speak to another Republican who ran against Trump to get his take.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We're following breaking news into CNN here at the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee. Former President Donald Trump has arrived here on the stage. You see him there in the dark, his right ear still bandaged after the attempted assassination on Saturday.

He's actually doing a walkthrough of the stage as we speak. We're joined now by CNN anchor Kaitlan Collins. And Kaitlan, this is obviously customary for folks that are going to be speaking during the convention to get a view of the stage, to figure out exactly where cameras are, how the podium looks, how the microphones sound.

But obviously, this appearance by the former president at the RNC is historic for myriad reasons.

COLLINS: Yes, and also, Boris, it's just different than every other walkthrough. Obviously, he's the president. He has a much higher level of security than anyone else who's been on that stage.

We did see Senator Vance, though, yesterday, after he had been announced as the vice presidential pick, doing his walkthrough. And they left all the lights on, and the press was also allowed on the floor. Right now, that lower area, the delegation floor where you've seen everyone and all the action, they have been standing back.

And so, you are seeing a different kind of walkthrough that Donald Trump is doing than any of the other speakers that we've seen, where they've turned off all the lights. He hasn't yet made it up to the lectern. We'll see if he ultimately does come out and test out the mic.

And this could be part of his enhanced security that we're seeing. I'll also note, on that stage, when we take the wider shot to the right of him, that's Walt Nauta, who was his co-defendant in the classified documents case that we were just talking about that got tossed out and is no longer a threat to them right now. We'll see all the circuit court rules.

But this is Donald Trump coming through, as he typically does, to really test everything and to make sure he knows where his angles are, what he's looking at, where the prompters are.

But there's so much more gravity to this, Boris, because this is the first time that we are seeing Donald Trump on stage since what happened at that rally Saturday night in Butler, Pennsylvania. We have not seen him yet in this kind of a setting.

He came out in public for the first time at this convention. He sat in the box that is actually right here to my right. That is the VIP box where he and other surrogates and members of his family have been sitting.

But we haven't seen him on stage since that assassination attempt. And so I think just seeing that bandage on his right ear also speaks to, you know, how different things are in light of what happened on Saturday. And clearly the security measures that we are seeing being taken here as he is preparing to address this convention, not tonight. He'll be speaking tomorrow night. It'll be Senator Vance, his VP pick. That'll be the headliner this evening.

SANCHEZ: And Kaitlan, there has been much speculation about the content of former President Trump's speech on Thursday night. I was actually speaking to Senator Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma earlier and he shared that he spoke with Donald Trump soon after the shooting and apparently Trump confirmed to him that he was rewriting his speech to strike a message of unity. I'm wondering what you're hearing from your sources about what we can expect to hear Trump say.

COLLINS: Yes, he -- Trump has described this is kind of rewriting the entire thing, saying that that he had a barn burner of a speech as he described it. Obviously, that you would expect to heavily focus on President Biden, but saying that he has he has shifted it some. Now, I think it's a great question to obviously say, wait and see what it sounds like and what it looks like. You know, you never want to say what something is until you've actually listened to the speech ourselves.

And, you know, you saw a big difference in the tone of speeches from last night compared to on Monday night when they were much softer. Yes, they had their political differences with Democrats and obviously their policies.

Last night, that was a bit different with the speeches from Kari Lake, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Vivek Ramaswamy, obviously.

Donald Trump taking a picture with some people who are on stage with him right now.

And yes, I do think it'll be -- it'll be a different speech, how different it is and what tone he chooses to use is notable.

I will tell you, they're also looking at this through not just what happened -- the lens of what happened on Saturday night and how scary it was for his family, for his children. We've talked to Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr. about how long it took them to actually get in touch with their father after that.

[15:45:04]

But they're also looking at this through a political lens. Obviously, we're four months out from an election, a little over 100 days. And some of his advisers, from what I've heard, have been urging him that if he does stick to that tone of unity and does make that outreach, that it is going to be politically beneficial to him come November.

I mean, you saw Nikki Haley on stage last night, clearly an appeal to reach Republican voters who were not in Donald Trump's camp, but maybe in hers and may listen to her when she says it's more important to be unified for the Republican Party than to, even if you don't agree with everything that Donald Trump does or says.

SANCHEZ: Kaitlan, please stand by as we watch the former president seeming to test out the angles up there at the podium on the stage of the Republican National Convention. We want to get some perspective now from Asa Hutchinson, the former Republican governor of Arkansas and former 2024 presidential candidate who had some sharp words for the former president.

Governor, you actually endorsed Nikki Haley after you dropped out of the race. I'm wondering what is running through your mind as you're watching someone who you opposed stand up at the podium, ready to receive the nomination of the Republican Party for presidency?

ASA HUTCHINSON, FORMER REPUBLICAN 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, my first thoughts are, thank goodness he's safe and that the assassin's bullet missed him. And he's had an incredible convention. The unity, the excitement of having a hero come back after escaping that attempt on his life.

And so there's a great deal of enthusiasm. My thoughts are that his tone that he wants to change will be manifested in his speech tomorrow night. The big question in J.D. Vance's introduction to the nation is, what will he be saying? And will he be an attack dog, as some VP nominees are? Or will he follow the leadership of Donald Trump in terms of toning down harsh rhetoric?

SANCHEZ: Well, soon after the shooting, he did put out a tweet essentially blaming Democrats and harsh rhetoric for the assassination attempt. Are you anticipating that we'll hear some of that in tonight's speech?

HUTCHINSON: Well, I think, first of all, J.D. Vance needs to tell his story. And that to me is one of the attractive things about him coming from poverty and having success that people identify with that. And then a point of interest to me is, is he going to address Ukraine?

You know, thus far, it's not that much been talked about. Twice that I've heard it mentioned, it's all been about withdrawing support from Ukraine. This is disconcerting to our allies, but that's a signature issue for J.D. Vance and for Donald Trump. So how is he going to address that tonight?

A lot of things I'm watching, but I hope that he accentuates the opportunity. This is the first time the nation has to know J.D. Vance. He needs to make it positive. He needs to make it human. And hopefully he will.

SANCHEZ: Going back to former President Donald Trump and what we can anticipate to hear from him, we heard Kaitlan Collins talk about people close to the former president telling him that if he strikes a tone of unity, he can draw a lot of folks that have been outside of the Republican Party into the fold.

And we actually were just speaking with one of our top numbers people, Harry Enten, and he pointed out a Reuters Ipsos poll that was done after the shooting on Saturday. I think the conventional wisdom is that after something like that, we see huge support for a president or a political candidate, but there didn't seem to be a huge shift in the numbers.

And in speaking to our analysts, they essentially say, well, look, the country's very divided. So what do you think former President Trump can say during his speech to unite the country, to bring those who he has not swayed over in the last eight years or so onto his side?

HUTCHINSON: Well, first of all, it's important, not just politically, but in substance that you work to reduce the harshness of the rhetoric that some people take to violent extremes. And that's true on both sides of the aisle. And I think it was a great moment for America when President Biden issued his statement saying, let's slow it down. And Donald Trump mirrored that.

And so let's see how that speech is, but I think it is important. Right now, he's got a cap because we're so divided in our country as to how he could rise in the polls.

But people like the strength, it was spontaneity, putting America in mind as he -- as the bullet missed him. That was an incredible moment. And so he needs to take advantage of that, not just tonight, but into the fall and have a more healing message.

And that you could be tough. You could say, we got to secure our borders.

[15:50:00]

But you can do this in a way that doesn't further divide our country and shows leadership. And what we've seen is that people will follow Donald Trump's leadership here at the convention. If he says tone down the rhetoric, it'll be toned down. That's good for America and that's leadership.

SANCHEZ: We've seen that from some of his former rivals, including who you endorsed, Nikki Haley. Did it surprise you last night that after some of her criticisms of Donald Trump, criticisms that Republicans have launched at President Biden, saying that he's diminished, that his mental acuity may not be all there, that he's unhinged, that he's a chaos agent. Did it surprise you that she fully endorsed him period, as she said last night?

HUTCHINSON: Well, I expected her to do so. And she was smart that she did it at the very beginning of the speech that put the audience at ease. So I expected her to make the endorsement.

The big question in my mind is, was she going to articulate what she did in the campaign about the importance of America's leadership and the things that she differed with Donald Trump on? She did it in a soft way, but effective in saying, we can disagree and we're going to fight those battles, but, you know, he's the nominee. So she protected her political future by making the endorsement.

And I think she made a good point that we can be different. We can disagree, fight those battles within the party.

SANCHEZ: She got an ovation after she said that. And I was sitting near the podium and I actually heard scattered boos when she first walked out on the stage. Not after that initial statement, which you pointed out came at the beginning of the speech.

There is a foreign policy question I had for you because as we're watching Donald Trump do his walkthrough of the stage here at the Republican National Convention, and we're set to hear from J.D. Vance later tonight. Obviously, they're both proponents of a more isolationist, less interventionist worldview for the United States, not only necessarily in Ukraine, but given recent comments from Donald Trump on Taiwan, I wanted to get your perspective on them.

He essentially said that the United States' assurances of protection for Taiwan, should there be a Chinese invasion, amount to an insurance policy. And he sort of saw it as a transactional thing. I'm curious what you make of this disagreement among Republicans on the United States' place in the world and its commitments to Taiwan.

HUTCHINSON: Well, I'm a Reagan Republican that believes in America's leadership, and that we ought to be the pro-America party and not the pro-Putin party. But this is the beautiful thing about it. The Republican Party needs to have debates within itself.

We can have disagreements. And that's one of the reasons that I'm engaged, is because I want America to continue to support Ukraine. I want us to value our allies and not push them out in the global arena and say, we don't want to be a partner with you anymore.

America certainly is the priority, but we have to have those alliances. That's been the history of our country. And I want our goodness to be reflected.

Donald Trump has a little bit different approach to that. But you've also, and I remind our European friends that, you know, we've got Congress, we've got a Senate that's very supportive of Ukraine. So just because Donald Trump goes that direction doesn't mean the whole party goes that direction, despite the fact that he is our commander -- would be our commander in chief.

SANCHEZ: Former Governor Asa Hutchinson, great to get your voice on. Appreciate your perspective. Thanks.

HUTCHINSON: Thank you, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

We're tracking the latest on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, including the fight over President Biden's place at the top of the Democratic ticket. That fight clearly not over. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Today, Congressman Adam Schiff became the most prominent Democrat to call on President Biden to bow out of the 2024 race. The California Democrat is saying in a statement he's not sure if Biden can beat Trump in November.

Next hour, we'll hear from the president as he is courting Latino voters speaking at a conference in Las Vegas.

CNN's Kayla Tausche is traveling with the president. Kayla, this call from Schiff is coming on the heels, as well, of some bad polling for the president. What kind of reaction are you hearing from the Biden campaign?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, it's true that Schiff is a bold-faced name in the Democratic Party, but the belief that the campaign and the top brass in the White House have long held is that until leadership in Congress, be it Hakeem Jeffries on the House side or Chuck Schumer on the Senate side, publicly calls for Biden to step aside, that he is safe. And it is true that, even in the wake of Schiff's declaration, that President Biden is staying the course. The campaign believes that it's just noise at this point.

And in new CNN reporting about the tenor of some of the calls that the president held with vulnerable Democrats over the weekend when they presented him with polling showing that they could potentially lose their district and tip the scales in favor of Republicans. President Biden refused to acknowledge or engage with any of that data.

The president is here in Nevada this week trying to counter-program the Republican National Convention with policy rollouts on the economy and immigration, mirroring what Republicans are talking about on the main stage in Milwaukee, and sitting for interviews to try to generate confidence in his abilities to serve another term.

He said in one interview with Black Entertainment Television that only a medical condition would cause him to reevaluate.

And his own party is pushing forward with a plan many Democrats have been angered by to virtually confirm him as the nominee in a roll call process that happens before the convention. A memo that was sent by the co-chairs of the DNC's rules committee said this earlier today.

We believe a virtual element is the wisest approach because it ensures ballot access in the states that we need to win in November and avoids potential risks if there is delay in the process. None of this, the co-chairs claim, will be rushed.

[16:00:03]

Now, Biden also said that he believes after Labor Day, some of the more critical constituencies to his re-election will begin engaging with the process more. But of course, that remains to be seen as some of the numbers, Brianna, are currently trending against him.

KEILAR: It's interesting. That was a concern because of what was happening in Ohio, but that concern has been dispensed with. Kayla Tausche, thank you so much.

And CNN's coverage of the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee continues now on "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper.

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